Basic concept of tuning the PA system explained very well, this is an excellent starting point for us, the ones who are trying to take the mix to the next level. Thank you!
Hi Barry, I really liked your video, the methodology of how you do an EQ quickly. I would like to have your opinion on the alignment of the subwoofers with your line arrays? Thank you in advance.
Thanks! I would use smaart, which shows a frequency and phase response graph of the system as its operating, and I'd look for weirdness around the crossover frequency between the subs and the mains, then adjust the time delay to try to minimize those artifacts. Of course there's always some variation depending upon the location where your microphone is and where you're measuring, but I try to provide a compromise that's the best results for the most audience. Perfect can be the enemy of the good.
Dear Barry, I got this concept and demonstrated it after my organization purchased Allen & Heath mixing board GL2400. Thanks for uploading this video, it will make life more easier for many live sound engineers. Many thanks indeed
Thanks so much Barry. Really helpful and also got me thinking about how this could be really helpful dialling in my sub crossovers as well as general PA eq. Top man
Nice video and well explained, do you know if this process can be done in a Allen heath Qupac mixer. It does have the rta function but I can’t figure out the rest.
Should be able to do this with any mixer that has an RTA meter you can use on a mic channel. 1) Plug Calibration mic into a channel, set EQ flat/off, MUTE channel - view RTA on this channel. You should see RTA spectrum display active on this channel. Do not send this cal mic channel output to any speakers. 2) Move calibration mic in front of speakers. 3) Use a noise generator, or plug-in a music player with a music file of pink-noise into a line-in mixer channel. Set channel EQ to flat/off and turn up level to a comfortable moderate level. Hear the pink noise hiss from the system. 4) Your RTA (on cal mic) shows the approximate frequency response of the PA system as it hears the pink noise playback. Adjust your main-output EQ as needed to flatten any major peaks, and overall smooth out the measured response as measured by the RTA on your cal mic channel. Beware - A little EQ can help. a whole lot of EQ often doesn't sound good. Measurements are only as accurate as your mic and methods. Don't fret too much over a db or two.
I have xair18 ......... Are you using x32. Or midas? This is great low cost corner cut for system measurement and calibration... I run the poor man show. And this is poor man approved.....lol
Sure, if you have a dbx driverack, Behringer DEQ2496, or some other auto-EQ with a calibration mic, you can let it do the work. I wouldn't blindly trust the results, these devices can make some poor decisions depending on your mic placement and the space you are in. So I always see if it's results seem "reasonable", and if not I re-run with the mic in a little different spot. Sometimes the auto results want to apply some radical boost/cuts, especially at the ends of the spectrum, and I'll over-ride those decisions. But, yeah, they can be good tools if you got em.
Oh yeah. The whole western world is in a economic mess. Letting money junkies manage the world finances is about as wise as letting a dope addict run the drug dispensary.
The process would work, but only be as accurate as your mic's response. A lot of "normal" mics have irregular response and many boost the high end some, so your resulting system EQ may be lacking in the high end. A "flat" studio mic like a SM-81 might work okay... but, I'd get the right tool. You don't need a laboratory reference B+K calibration mic for decent results, you can get a dbx or behringer type calibration mic for about the price (or less) of a typical vocal mic.
Real Time Analyzer. A bar-graph meter display that shows the audio spectrum, the bars on the left show the low frequency output, the bars toward the right show the high frequency energy. If the system is playing a pink-noise test signal (calibrated hiss type signal), and all the bars are roughly equal height that would indicate the system doesn't have any major boosts or cuts at any particular frequencies or notes - accurate flat response. While playing music, you'll see the display dance around according to the tone(s) in the music.
Hey, thanks! Some do. There are some high end home audio speakers that have very complicated crossovers that are tuned for the specific drivers the manufacturer chose. That's one of the reasons why I don't recommend just randomly swapping out a driver with a "better" driver without due consideration. This is an exception, most passive speakers have fairly simple crossovers. It's more common, and easier to do with todays DSP in powered loudspeakers. It's not entirely unusual to see built in curves in powered studio monitors or powered PA speakers to get the best from that box. Bose is famous for this, for having radical eq curves in the amplifier or processing to compensate for the loudspeakers. Some of their speakers don't do very well, without the associated processing. But, do remember, you can't just take a lousy speaker and make it good by applying EQ to it.
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for the information! I really appreciate your knowledge. So I tried your method on two different powered EV speakers, the zlx12p and the EV elx12p. The plastic speaker was much more peaky than the wooden speaker, the ELX was much flatter.
@@Barry-Watson the zlx speakers sounded a lot better. I had primarily used a set of these for my keyboard rig. I thought my synthesizer was kind of muddy sounding in general since I've had it. Turns out it was just the speakers. Thanks again for your channel and everything you do.
Basic concept of tuning the PA system explained very well, this is an excellent starting point for us, the ones who are trying to take the mix to the next level. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
@@Barry-WatsonI never thought about the change in mix created by different keys . Awesome info!
Hi Barry, I really liked your video, the methodology of how you do an EQ quickly.
I would like to have your opinion on the alignment of the subwoofers with your line arrays?
Thank you in advance.
Thanks! I would use smaart, which shows a frequency and phase response graph of the system as its operating, and I'd look for weirdness around the crossover frequency between the subs and the mains, then adjust the time delay to try to minimize those artifacts. Of course there's always some variation depending upon the location where your microphone is and where you're measuring, but I try to provide a compromise that's the best results for the most audience. Perfect can be the enemy of the good.
Dear Barry, I got this concept and demonstrated it after my organization purchased Allen & Heath mixing board GL2400.
Thanks for uploading this video, it will make life more easier for many live sound engineers. Many thanks indeed
Fantastic!
Really good and practical "howto" video - thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks so much Barry. Really helpful and also got me thinking about how this could be really helpful dialling in my sub crossovers as well as general PA eq. Top man
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
Barry - Excellent video. Thanks for putting this together
Very welcome
Thank you for this simple but great video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you it helps alot 👍🙏
Good job Mate
Thanks!
Nice video and well explained, do you know if this process can be done in a Allen heath Qupac mixer. It does have the rta function but I can’t figure out the rest.
Should be able to do this with any mixer that has an RTA meter you can use on a mic channel.
1) Plug Calibration mic into a channel, set EQ flat/off, MUTE channel - view RTA on this channel. You should see RTA spectrum display active on this channel. Do not send this cal mic channel output to any speakers.
2) Move calibration mic in front of speakers.
3) Use a noise generator, or plug-in a music player with a music file of pink-noise into a line-in mixer channel. Set channel EQ to flat/off and turn up level to a comfortable moderate level. Hear the pink noise hiss from the system.
4) Your RTA (on cal mic) shows the approximate frequency response of the PA system as it hears the pink noise playback. Adjust your main-output EQ as needed to flatten any major peaks, and overall smooth out the measured response as measured by the RTA on your cal mic channel. Beware - A little EQ can help. a whole lot of EQ often doesn't sound good. Measurements are only as accurate as your mic and methods. Don't fret too much over a db or two.
@@Barry-Watson I really apréciate your advice thanks a lot
Thanks! Best wishes.
TQ for the info... Appreciated
My pleasure
Thank you!
I have xair18 ......... Are you using x32. Or midas?
This is great low cost corner cut for system measurement and calibration...
I run the poor man show. And this is poor man approved.....lol
I'm using X32, the Midas M32 uses the same software. I think you could do this technique with the Xair as well.
Thanks Barry
Very welcome
Does the color of the speaker typically change with volume ?
Your situation may vary from mine.
Certain systems definitely respond differently at various SPLs
Would it be easier to just use the auto eq wizard on the pa 2
Sure, if you have a dbx driverack, Behringer DEQ2496, or some other auto-EQ with a calibration mic, you can let it do the work. I wouldn't blindly trust the results, these devices can make some poor decisions depending on your mic placement and the space you are in. So I always see if it's results seem "reasonable", and if not I re-run with the mic in a little different spot. Sometimes the auto results want to apply some radical boost/cuts, especially at the ends of the spectrum, and I'll over-ride those decisions.
But, yeah, they can be good tools if you got em.
@@Barry-Watson true didn't know the Behringer has auto eq
@@Barry-Watson Behringer one Is almost double in price in a year, new Zealand inflation is OUT OF CONTROL!!!
Oh yeah. The whole western world is in a economic mess. Letting money junkies manage the world finances is about as wise as letting a dope addict run the drug dispensary.
Can a normal mic be used for calibration?
The process would work, but only be as accurate as your mic's response. A lot of "normal" mics have irregular response and many boost the high end some, so your resulting system EQ may be lacking in the high end. A "flat" studio mic like a SM-81 might work okay... but, I'd get the right tool. You don't need a laboratory reference B+K calibration mic for decent results, you can get a dbx or behringer type calibration mic for about the price (or less) of a typical vocal mic.
What is RTA function please?
Real Time Analyzer. A bar-graph meter display that shows the audio spectrum, the bars on the left show the low frequency output, the bars toward the right show the high frequency energy. If the system is playing a pink-noise test signal (calibrated hiss type signal), and all the bars are roughly equal height that would indicate the system doesn't have any major boosts or cuts at any particular frequencies or notes - accurate flat response. While playing music, you'll see the display dance around according to the tone(s) in the music.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY. THAT WAS QUICK AND YOUR EXPLANATIONS ARE QUITE CLEAR. I AM LEARNING A LOT FROM YOU STARTING FROM SCRATCH.
@@joelucky3570 awesome! Thanks! My pleasure.
Why don't speaker manufacturers do this process to their speakers and put in processing to flatten the response?
Hey, thanks! Some do. There are some high end home audio speakers that have very complicated crossovers that are tuned for the specific drivers the manufacturer chose. That's one of the reasons why I don't recommend just randomly swapping out a driver with a "better" driver without due consideration. This is an exception, most passive speakers have fairly simple crossovers.
It's more common, and easier to do with todays DSP in powered loudspeakers. It's not entirely unusual to see built in curves in powered studio monitors or powered PA speakers to get the best from that box.
Bose is famous for this, for having radical eq curves in the amplifier or processing to compensate for the loudspeakers. Some of their speakers don't do very well, without the associated processing.
But, do remember, you can't just take a lousy speaker and make it good by applying EQ to it.
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for the information! I really appreciate your knowledge. So I tried your method on two different powered EV speakers, the zlx12p and the EV elx12p. The plastic speaker was much more peaky than the wooden speaker, the ELX was much flatter.
Interesting. Did you think the speakers sounded better after doing this exercise?
@@Barry-Watson the zlx speakers sounded a lot better. I had primarily used a set of these for my keyboard rig. I thought my synthesizer was kind of muddy sounding in general since I've had it. Turns out it was just the speakers. Thanks again for your channel and everything you do.
Cool. Glad to hear it worked!
Bravo bravo bravo
Thanks!
Every digital mixer these days have a built in RTA... except for the really expensive one's lol