The F15 on the Dev Server is the F15A MSIP version, which gives it countermeasures. It currently has the incorrect radar set (should be the upgraded version with TWS and FOX3 compatible), and it currently has the wrong engines that are weaker than what it should have. Right now Gaijin has made a Frankenstein F15 that doesn't exist in real life.
Unlucky, but kinda how it works. I hope we get a better f15, but let's not forget the same thing happened to the mig 29smt, and will probably happen to other planes as well
Technically A models never got AMRAAM capability. That didn’t come along until MSIP II, which congress scrapped retrofitting onto the 15A’s. Otherwise this is too real
@@christopherchartier3017 Information for the public does not mean it is accurate it could just be propaganda. Only the military really knows what it can and cannot do
Regardless of whether or not the F-15 is underperforming, I’ve been trying to tell people that the F-18 would’ve been a better fit for war thunder and F-15 enjoyers such as myself would need to curb their enthusiasm a bit. Low speed nose authority always goes brr in this game, especially when using mouse aim.
I think in sim this fight would be more interesting, you can be a lot more precise with your pulls. The F15 was designed as a rate fighter than CAN pull high AoA, and Su-27 is a super manoeuvrable dog fighter that is supposed to finish the fight in the first turn or 2 after that it would be a struggle for it to keep up with the F-15. Obviously dev server nothing is finished so we will have wait until the live server to properly test this. But for the most part it is just managing your energy that will win you the fight
It's inevitable. the Su-27 is designed specifically to take on the F-15 in a dogfight. It was made in panic after the F-15 was made to counter the MiG-25/31.
@@eskildscott7841 Or a correct flight model, because the performace of the 2 planes is very similar, F15 should not be loosing to F16s in 1 turn fights most of the time
@@railgunduckshouldn't be losing to f16s in the one circle period. In a 2 circle yes the f16 should win bit the one. Also if you get into the hard two circle rate fight with the su27 just pop airbreak the f15s thrust will win you the nose authority to kill the su27
Mat there’s no way the F-15 will be the best aircraft in the game, radar is lacking in compared to IRL No HMD no TWS still using 7Ms not pulling correct AOA, all while Su-27 is doing everything better ingame
@@MagentaFerretNah. Mat clearly doesn't rate that well, he had a few opportunities to just rip around that circle onto stalled su-27, the lack of rudder use is weird too. Not to say that F-15 is an excellent dogfighter, not at all, but the video is meh
F15 likes the one circle more than the two circle fight. The f15 is not pulling the correct AOA in the dev server. What’s happening gaijin, I hope they fix this.
BREAKING NEWS: American ideals for ending a dogfight before it starts with BVR combat along with Soviet lies about their capabilities when translated into a game that only goes off of whats written (even when easily disproved by pilot accounts) produces a clear disadvantage. Along with this shocking realization we've made an incredible discovery, the Soviet aircraft with 10 of the best missiles in the game made by the formerly Soviet state Russia performs better than the American aircraft made a decade before hand. Who could have known?
From the Russian Su-27 flight manuals, Maximum service G at design flight weight of 21,400 kg G max = 8.0 at M < 0.85 G max = 6.5 at 0.85 < M > 1.25 G max = 7.0 at M > 1.25 For weights differing from the design flight weight, G is established from the conditions : Weight x G max = 171,000kg at M < 0.85, G limit = 9.0 Weight x G max = 139,000kg at 0.85 < M > 1.25, G limit= 7.0 Weight x G max = 150,000kg at M > 1.25, G limit = 7.5 -- From this it is clear the Su-27 can only pull 9G at under Mach 0.85 and at a weight of 19,000kg or less (171,000/9=19,000kg). Working back from the normal takeoff weight of 23250 kg we need to lose 4250kg, as we want to keep our 4 AAMs and ammo that means we must be down to around 840kg fuel, just 17% of our (already reduced) fuel load to be allowed to pull 9G.
It's basically again situation we had with phantom doing missile truck stuff and f5 dogfights. So now we'll have F15 doing missile truck stuff and F16 dogfights. And Su27 is like mig23mld in old meta doing everything really good :D
@@siett1335 F15a yes. It's dead on arrival. F15c which is still much older than F16c blk50, correctly implemented and with correct loadouts (talking about amraams) should have much better bvr than viper. But it's war thunder. They decided to add F15a which is a downgrade to all we have in us top tier instead of F15c which could have some chance with at least tws and insane radar. It's basically what F4C is to F4E xD
but the question is why? why do they keep doing that? Why is Russia the only one getting HMD for this patch? Why are they the only ones getting spall liners? if that's not bias, then I don't know what is
@@kentreyes7379I can't really comment on the tanks as I don't know if the added Nato tanks have spall liners if they do by all means add them. But the reason russia is getting a plane with an HMS is because it used it. The f15a and f15C sadly did not so I don't see how this is evidence of bias although i do agree russian ground forces is favoured. I don't know if you can say the same with air . I can only see it as giving the things what they had IRL sorta. We do need the AMRAAM the 27er can't continue standing so uncontested.
While some of the F-15’s flight model is foggy, anyone else notice that the F-15 thrives in lag pursuit, where staying in the control zone doesn’t involving full inflection of the control surfaces? Just noticing that that could benefit pilots who choose to fly with a stick rather than a mouse. Better energy management than mouse players who are applying full inflection in every maneuver they make to realign with the cursor. Great two circle potential, given how slow you lose speed with the p/w ratio. Good time to start practicing F-15 notch tactics to actually make the Aim-7’s work against the R-27s and 73s.
Another thing to remember is that Gaijin adds things into game with their best performance on paper. On paper the Soviet Union has historically overstated their capabilities while the US has historically understated their capabilities. So that will play into a lot of their vehicles performing stronger than what we see in real life.
I would say the opposite actually, according to a lot of US sources everyone else's vehicles are dog shit compared to the US, but when they actually when they went up against that vehicle it turned out the other nations vehicle was extremely good, this case is found with the American French pilot practice dogfights, america claimed that their f22 was extremely good but where shot down multiple times by rafales and mirage 2000s
@russianboy9241 no credible US source says every plane is dog shit that's not American. And sure the F22 can absolutely get shot down, but at the same time when pilots train in things like the F22/F35 they have the odds heavily stacked against them. A Pilot isn't going to get much training when allowed to use a stealth aircrafts full capability against non stealth aircraft. That is why when the F22 trains with other countries it either has its stealth compromised or an enemy aircraft will start from behind it or within very close ramge in order to give its pilots worthwhile training.
was just about to say this same thing, during wargames with the f22 they are made to carry external fuel tanks and start the fight within visual range. Because if we just stomp on everyone during training noone learns anything but if we play at our absolute worst we get to plan for the what if incase for some reason that same situation comes up in a real fight. @@ruska9773
@@russianboy9241This was after several earlier mock dogfights between the aircraft, in witch the F-22 often won. Also, as someone else stated, I believe the raptor was instructed to keep its drop tanks during said fights, but I could be wrong about that. It’s not uncommon for American aircraft to limit themselves to give their training partners a better operation, and to train their own pilots on how to fight when you have some Kind of disability. This doesn’t just go for Americans either - generally anytime a country has objectively superior technology, they’ll still train as if they didn’t for the reasons earlier.
@@kem9952 they did shott down some mirage and rafales too yes, but the f22 did not have drop tanks, the US claimed that had drop tanks, which later France refuted by publicizing a video showing the f22 carrying no fuel tank, so my point still stands
You will almost always want to go to circle, nose to tail when going up against the flanker because it's going to win in the one circle at low speeds especially. Keep your energy up and manage your throttle if you want to win
F-15 operationnal AOA envelope: 45 deg full air-to-air load without external tanks. F-16 operationnal AOA envelope: 28 deg air-to-air config. AOA is only one piece of the puzzle.
If you stay faster and don’t get below a certain speed it looks like the f15 will pull more than the su27. So the trick would be to make sure that you don’t enter an offset 2 circle so that you don’t have to continuously pull and keep him from getting inside the circle to take a shot. If the circle is not offset then it won’t be an issue unless he is in your control zone
That doesn't work irl, in WT or even DCS where I'm assuming most of you are getting your info, the su 27 beating the eagle is realistic, they aren't equal in terms of maneuverability
@@jaek__staying at corner speed works IRL, in war thunder, and DCS. Most people don’t understand this and doing so in a prolonged fight essentially guarantees victory.
@@jordanharvey5739 doing it in WT is annoying unless you're particularly good at tapping/feathering though it will help you win if you have position and enter the rate after your opponent does
I feel like mouse aim nerfs your ability to pull AOA... I play on controller with sim controls and have consistently been able to pull some pretty extreme maneuvers on my buddy in the MiG 29 SMT and Su-27 both. We don't use missiles for our dogfights. Just guns.
@matawg no offense but you do not know how to properly use the f15 you where full after burn turning and 900 kmh in a f15 you need to stay between 600 and 400 kmh to have the optimal trunk time plus you had several chances to lunch or at leat try to launch a aim9m
Su 27 is fine just buff the damn g limit for the f15 wings snapping , make it legit , not like its gonna out maneuver the su anyhow 😂 but eagle better be the fastest for tope speed 2.5 to 2.3
The F15 and SU27 are very close in terms of performance in a dog fight. In a flawless rate fight (meaning both aircraft maintain optimal speeds and turn) The F15 beats the SU27 by 1 degree. In a radius fight the SU27 Barely out performs the F15. I feel like if they were properly implemented it would come down to Who the better pilot was/ who knew their craft better.
@@Donut833 currently, F15 wins neither the radius fight or the rate fight. flanker just pulls in instantly, and gets solution as seen in the video. trying to swap it to a two circle fight and the F15 magically loses all its power below 650IAS and cant reach it again. and even on a top speed run, ive chased flankers from one side of the map to the other and between 450 to 1200 ias, i can beat them but you hit a speed wall once you cross 1250 and you stop accelerating unless you fly higher to use thinner air whereas the flanker just laughs at you and can pull away faster than your rip speed. funny gaijin at it again
The F-15 is actually better due to its lower mass than the Su 27 and good retention of catch speeds, the f15 can do more than one lap without losing speed when the Su 27 already starts to stall
No offense, but all of these fights are just holding S... how about a dogfight between two people that have a clue how to fly the plane? sure Head ons dont show anything, but neither does this
the f15 feels dead on arrival, it doesn't get the best missiles, doesn't get the best radar, doesnt turn that well, gets out turned by any of the top tier jets and doesn't get a HMD. The f15 being an equal to the mig29SMT is basically calling it a bus, the SMT is a heavier mig29, that really can't dogfight any of the high tier jets, and the fact that the f15 doesn't out turn it, well. Personal opinion with over 20.000 games to back it, that thing is dead on arrival. The only reason i could see it win in top tier is, if the f15's/american teams are running full f15 teams vs mixed top tier jets and 11.3 jets, which usually happens. the teams early on usually consist of full top tier American jets vs a mix og bad Russian jets with some bombers, and a few top tier jets, since the Russian jets are not nearly as popular as the American jets usually are.
yeah f15 really sucks ass when you full pull the whole time and bleed its entire energy... if you do try to keep your speed above 400mph tho it can really do well
The Su-27 was designed to counter the F-15 so theoretically the Su-27 should win more dogfights against the F-15. And personally I feel like the F-15 is a flying brick
“We’re doing no head ons that doesn’t show anything ” bro knows nothing about dogfighting 😭 yes it does show a lot of things a head on when merging is called a one circle fight and ur forcing the rate fight which is a 2 circle which denies any chance for the flanker to kill the f15 because it can out rate the su27 (beat it in the 2 circle which is nose to tail) so this video means absolutely fucking nothing not even gonna lie don’t even bother watching it
No no no no no the f15 is not an interceptor it's a fighter it flys like a brick if it drops like this this it's doa I love the f15 and I do have a bias but come on man it can't even beat an smt almost no point in playing it just to get dicked down by every jet in the lobby
So it is unhistorical for the f 15 to be fighting the SU 27 the F-18 in the F-22 would have been more viable for this update. It’s honestly disappointing how they don’t know their history. And the fact that lost every dog fight to the Mig 29. Just makes me actually disappointed in the developers.
I'm fine with the F15 being worse in many cases against the su27...that's in game. IRL things can be quite different, I'll just leave it at that. I'm not going to quibble about it, both aircraft are great fighters, it just comes down to who's in the front seat. I fully prepared myself for Gaijin nerfing the Eagle but it does hurt a bit as I was a crewchief on the Eagle and in dealing with the pilots I'd heard many things from those pilots who'd gone 'beak-to-beak' with su27's and mig29's in training dogfights. Such is life in this game.
It's both, it was designed as both lol, I don't know where all these f-15 isn't a dogfighter comments are coming from lol. It's goal is to use it's powerful radar to win bvr before dogfight but it can still hang.
Im not really surprised the f15 loses almost every time considering that its the A model, the first couple of f15s up until the c or something werent really anything special
i say russian planes are better but still i love US jets (BTW do you think F/A-18 is coming) this is my opinion i just dont love USA props end i dont want to be want to be rude to American viewers
F-15 really isn't meant to be a dogfighter and instead is an example of the Air Force's change in doctrine from Visual Engagement to Beyond Visual Engagements. I look forward to seeing the Mig-25, could you imagine just zooming past everything in your way?
@@Hawkeye6941 No, it wasn't. Secondly the United States never thought the Mig-25 was a dog fighter because the characteristics were all wrong and matched up perfectly with the requirements of the F-X program of earlier decades which the F-X program was going to be a long range interdiction strike aircraft to satisfy the requirements of the interchangeability policy between the Air Force and Navy at the time. However the F-X program never came to be and the closest thing they ever came to successfully accomplishing all goals was the F-111 which wasn't adequate enough to satisfy both the Air Force's requirement of being an interdiction air superiority fighter and the navy's requirement of being a long range interceptor. Which lead to the navy developing the F-14 under the F-VFX program after the failure of the F-111B. And because soviet airforce doctrine at the time which was learned through thousands of engagements with them in Vietnam conflicted directly with U.S. air force doctrine which focused primarily on strike air craft without Air to Air capabilities at the time which lead directly to the F-4 phantom being updated to be the sole air superiority fighter aircraft by equipping it with a gun and loading it with long range missiles and a beefy radar. However because soviet doctrine was to get as close as possible as fast as possible it put the F-4 as a distinct disadvantage which is why our doctrine changed by focusing more on BVR combat and investing heavily in missile and radar technology. Which the F-15 is designed to maximize. But the TL;DR short of it is the F-15 was too fat to be a dogfighter which lead to the Fight Mafia starting the LWF program which lead to the F-16 and F/A-18 which are dog fighters.
@@aceofluftwaffe6444 Literally no ? The SU-27 Always was MEANT to be Superior in the air (Maneuverability), I think you mean The F-15A needs a Buff because IMO it looks rough. It honestly funny at this point watching these people be mad at "Realism".
It’s not that we buthurt it’s just you add a plane that was 4 mid radar missiles high no hmd and no tws while Russia has now the 6 best missles on one jet with 4 amazing ir missiles
Only reason why we mad is because we don’t only wanna use the f16 for another couple months we want to be able to use both but we can’t since f 15 will get slammed by any jet in its br
Braindead russian mains trying to enforce the idea that they didn't dominate the past 6 months. Meanwhile everybody has to fly low to avoid the overkill R-27ER.
The F15 on the Dev Server is the F15A MSIP version, which gives it countermeasures.
It currently has the incorrect radar set (should be the upgraded version with TWS and FOX3 compatible), and it currently has the wrong engines that are weaker than what it should have.
Right now Gaijin has made a Frankenstein F15 that doesn't exist in real life.
Unlucky, but kinda how it works. I hope we get a better f15, but let's not forget the same thing happened to the mig 29smt, and will probably happen to other planes as well
its american thats why,
thats 90% of all veichles
Technically A models never got AMRAAM capability. That didn’t come along until MSIP II, which congress scrapped retrofitting onto the 15A’s.
Otherwise this is too real
According to General Lee, the F15’s flight performance is lacking
Why did he drive one in real life?
@@mich421It’s his favorite plane irl and he’s got a crap ton of information on it
@@christopherchartier3017 Information for the public does not mean it is accurate it could just be propaganda. Only the military really knows what it can and cannot do
"drive"@@mich421
According to Lenin, SU-27 is better than that
I have never seen anyone rate fight by pulling as hard as possible
Most intelligent WT player
f15 is still missing 5000 kgf of thrust in its engines. when it gets that it should get the edge in the rate fight
Regardless of whether or not the F-15 is underperforming, I’ve been trying to tell people that the F-18 would’ve been a better fit for war thunder and F-15 enjoyers such as myself would need to curb their enthusiasm a bit. Low speed nose authority always goes brr in this game, especially when using mouse aim.
I think in sim this fight would be more interesting, you can be a lot more precise with your pulls. The F15 was designed as a rate fighter than CAN pull high AoA, and Su-27 is a super manoeuvrable dog fighter that is supposed to finish the fight in the first turn or 2 after that it would be a struggle for it to keep up with the F-15. Obviously dev server nothing is finished so we will have wait until the live server to properly test this. But for the most part it is just managing your energy that will win you the fight
I just got the F-15 and my buddy has the Su-27 and MiG 29 smt so will be testing this with sim controls tomorrow :)
It's inevitable. the Su-27 is designed specifically to take on the F-15 in a dogfight. It was made in panic after the F-15 was made to counter the MiG-25/31.
f15A is not even pulling the correct AOA my guy
yeah right now the su 27 is definitely the top dog tho that will surely change once the later f15´s come out with the aim120 and a much better radar
@@eskildscott7841 Or a correct flight model, because the performace of the 2 planes is very similar, F15 should not be loosing to F16s in 1 turn fights most of the time
@@railgunduckshouldn't be losing to f16s in the one circle period. In a 2 circle yes the f16 should win bit the one. Also if you get into the hard two circle rate fight with the su27 just pop airbreak the f15s thrust will win you the nose authority to kill the su27
@@Gyyghhhhjjjkkit is, AOA limits for the Eagle are 21.9° below 270 kts.
Mat there’s no way the F-15 will be the best aircraft in the game, radar is lacking in compared to IRL No HMD no TWS still using 7Ms not pulling correct AOA, all while Su-27 is doing everything better ingame
If we get the C model with AMRAMS though
@@skatemaster33 they said no Fox 3s this update
@@genchar692 yes but they will come later
@@skatemaster33 yeah obviously
@@skatemaster33yeah, then Russia will get R-77-1😂Gaijin always buff Russia stuff
I think that the 2 circle is favored by the F15 while tapping down elevator to maintain your airspeed but then again there are the R73s
Yeah, it doesnt work because the flanker will simply whip the nose around and launch an R73 inside the circle. Until we get aim-9X it's a done deal.
@@MagentaFerretNah. Mat clearly doesn't rate that well, he had a few opportunities to just rip around that circle onto stalled su-27, the lack of rudder use is weird too. Not to say that F-15 is an excellent dogfighter, not at all, but the video is meh
you have over 200 flares for a reason.. to pre-flare
@@colRobinOldshe isn't flying that F-15 the right way and that's what got him killed
F15 likes the one circle more than the two circle fight. The f15 is not pulling the correct AOA in the dev server. What’s happening gaijin, I hope they fix this.
Versus the su27, it out rates it (in dcs) by 1 degree/ s in a 2 circle but gets clapped in the 1 circle due to the stall performance of the 27.
@@oversizedmuffin9534 I agree, do you watch growlingsidewinder?
I love that we get the F-15, and everyone knows it’s dead on arrival.
I’ll stick to my F-16C, thanks.
All these dogfights just seem to be pulling as hard as you can, I bet you could keep up with the flanker at your corner speed
BREAKING NEWS: American ideals for ending a dogfight before it starts with BVR combat along with Soviet lies about their capabilities when translated into a game that only goes off of whats written (even when easily disproved by pilot accounts) produces a clear disadvantage. Along with this shocking realization we've made an incredible discovery, the Soviet aircraft with 10 of the best missiles in the game made by the formerly Soviet state Russia performs better than the American aircraft made a decade before hand. Who could have known?
From the Russian Su-27 flight manuals, Maximum service G at design flight weight of 21,400 kg
G max = 8.0 at M < 0.85
G max = 6.5 at 0.85 < M > 1.25
G max = 7.0 at M > 1.25
For weights differing from the design flight weight, G is
established from the conditions :
Weight x G max = 171,000kg at M < 0.85, G limit = 9.0
Weight x G max = 139,000kg at 0.85 < M > 1.25, G limit= 7.0
Weight x G max = 150,000kg at M > 1.25, G limit = 7.5
--
From this it is clear the Su-27 can only pull 9G at under Mach 0.85 and at a weight of 19,000kg or less (171,000/9=19,000kg). Working back from the normal takeoff weight of 23250 kg we need to lose 4250kg, as we want to keep our 4 AAMs and ammo that means we must be down to around 840kg fuel, just 17% of our (already reduced) fuel load to be allowed to pull 9G.
It's basically again situation we had with phantom doing missile truck stuff and f5 dogfights. So now we'll have F15 doing missile truck stuff and F16 dogfights. And Su27 is like mig23mld in old meta doing everything really good :D
Yeah no the is zero reason to use the f15a as is. The f16c does everything better.
@@siett1335 F15a yes. It's dead on arrival. F15c which is still much older than F16c blk50, correctly implemented and with correct loadouts (talking about amraams) should have much better bvr than viper. But it's war thunder. They decided to add F15a which is a downgrade to all we have in us top tier instead of F15c which could have some chance with at least tws and insane radar. It's basically what F4C is to F4E xD
F15 should be a little bit worse than the su27 but not nearly as bad as it is right now
The US getting the SMT treatment this patch next patch they'll get a top dog most likely.
no the f15 flight model is just extremely gimped at the moment, everything is subject to change
but the question is why? why do they keep doing that? Why is Russia the only one getting HMD for this patch? Why are they the only ones getting spall liners? if that's not bias, then I don't know what is
@@kentreyes7379take note russia is still the only nation with a off boresight ir missile
@@teariom456 take note r-73 didn't have equivalents at the time of entering the service
@@kentreyes7379I can't really comment on the tanks as I don't know if the added Nato tanks have spall liners if they do by all means add them. But the reason russia is getting a plane with an HMS is because it used it. The f15a and f15C sadly did not so I don't see how this is evidence of bias although i do agree russian ground forces is favoured. I don't know if you can say the same with air . I can only see it as giving the things what they had IRL sorta. We do need the AMRAAM the 27er can't continue standing so uncontested.
While some of the F-15’s flight model is foggy, anyone else notice that the F-15 thrives in lag pursuit, where staying in the control zone doesn’t involving full inflection of the control surfaces? Just noticing that that could benefit pilots who choose to fly with a stick rather than a mouse. Better energy management than mouse players who are applying full inflection in every maneuver they make to realign with the cursor. Great two circle potential, given how slow you lose speed with the p/w ratio.
Good time to start practicing F-15 notch tactics to actually make the Aim-7’s work against the R-27s and 73s.
It's war thunder, what kind of argument should that be if you need a joystick to win a dogfight with the F-15 xD
Should I grind for the F15? It’s the only one I’m closest tooo need 4 more bombers
It's like asking what toilet paper should u use. It's about your preference bruh.
@@justingaskins3440 Oh use my hands and then lick them clean like a dog so I wouldn’t know
Gaijin needs to change something in the game, to make scenarios where f15 would shine, and others when the su27 would be better.
This is a super gimed f15. If it come into the game ther is zero reason to use it over the f16c.
Another thing to remember is that Gaijin adds things into game with their best performance on paper. On paper the Soviet Union has historically overstated their capabilities while the US has historically understated their capabilities. So that will play into a lot of their vehicles performing stronger than what we see in real life.
I would say the opposite actually, according to a lot of US sources everyone else's vehicles are dog shit compared to the US, but when they actually when they went up against that vehicle it turned out the other nations vehicle was extremely good, this case is found with the American French pilot practice dogfights, america claimed that their f22 was extremely good but where shot down multiple times by rafales and mirage 2000s
@russianboy9241 no credible US source says every plane is dog shit that's not American. And sure the F22 can absolutely get shot down, but at the same time when pilots train in things like the F22/F35 they have the odds heavily stacked against them. A Pilot isn't going to get much training when allowed to use a stealth aircrafts full capability against non stealth aircraft. That is why when the F22 trains with other countries it either has its stealth compromised or an enemy aircraft will start from behind it or within very close ramge in order to give its pilots worthwhile training.
was just about to say this same thing, during wargames with the f22 they are made to carry external fuel tanks and start the fight within visual range. Because if we just stomp on everyone during training noone learns anything but if we play at our absolute worst we get to plan for the what if incase for some reason that same situation comes up in a real fight.
@@ruska9773
@@russianboy9241This was after several earlier mock dogfights between the aircraft, in witch the F-22 often won. Also, as someone else stated, I believe the raptor was instructed to keep its drop tanks during said fights, but I could be wrong about that. It’s not uncommon for American aircraft to limit themselves to give their training partners a better operation, and to train their own pilots on how to fight when you have some
Kind of disability. This doesn’t just go for Americans either - generally anytime a country has objectively superior technology, they’ll still train as if they didn’t for the reasons earlier.
@@kem9952 they did shott down some mirage and rafales too yes, but the f22 did not have drop tanks, the US claimed that had drop tanks, which later France refuted by publicizing a video showing the f22 carrying no fuel tank, so my point still stands
You will almost always want to go to circle, nose to tail when going up against the flanker because it's going to win in the one circle at low speeds especially. Keep your energy up and manage your throttle if you want to win
I feel like the F-15 burns down too much speed when turning. I was expecting a bit more power from the engines something like the F-14B
engines are missing a lot of thrust
¨dont reverse in front of the bandit unless you know that the bandit will overshoot¨-Growling Sidewinder
30k subs congrats
The F-15 was nerfed, once a singular F-15 kicked the asses of two MiG-29’s at once.
F15 can pull more AOA than the F16, gaijin is weird
F-15 operationnal AOA envelope: 45 deg full air-to-air load without external tanks.
F-16 operationnal AOA envelope: 28 deg air-to-air config.
AOA is only one piece of the puzzle.
It would be nice if the F15 pulls better aoa or the pilot has an hmd it would help much and it would not be big game changer
I still think Su-27 is overkill with so many missiles..
You are right but also f 14 has too many missiles even if they have less performance
after youre logic the f14 is overkill too. It is its irl loudout , get over it.
That’s just basic Russian engineering, it’s not gonna change when more flankers get added 💀
then they should add most missle fail and explode at lauch and shitty radars @@thatoneguy1741
@@mich421the f14 has less missiles than the su27 lmfao you’re defending Russia so hard
It is kinda funny seeing the US fanboys upset
f16c still shits on su 27 tho so its fine for now
❤ the f15 intakes change its angle. Nice detail .
If you stay faster and don’t get below a certain speed it looks like the f15 will pull more than the su27. So the trick would be to make sure that you don’t enter an offset 2 circle so that you don’t have to continuously pull and keep him from getting inside the circle to take a shot. If the circle is not offset then it won’t be an issue unless he is in your control zone
That doesn't work irl, in WT or even DCS where I'm assuming most of you are getting your info, the su 27 beating the eagle is realistic, they aren't equal in terms of maneuverability
@@jaek__staying at corner speed works IRL, in war thunder, and DCS. Most people don’t understand this and doing so in a prolonged fight essentially guarantees victory.
@@jordanharvey5739 doing it in WT is annoying unless you're particularly good at tapping/feathering though it will help you win if you have position and enter the rate after your opponent does
@@jaek__ it’s not that annoying, I do it all the time. If you know your fight geometry it can easily win you fights consistently
@@jordanharvey5739 it is annoying especially in some planes like the Falcon, and it's definitely annoying in comparison to SIM controls
I feel like mouse aim nerfs your ability to pull AOA... I play on controller with sim controls and have consistently been able to pull some pretty extreme maneuvers on my buddy in the MiG 29 SMT and Su-27 both. We don't use missiles for our dogfights. Just guns.
Hope is not lost, the F-15C will probably come in the next few updates and it has better engines, better maneuverability, and AMRAMM capability.
Also not to mention the F/A-18A that will probably be coming soon.
Is`t possible to use my radar to help lead my friends missiles somehow??????
No datlink isn’t a thing in war thunder
“It’s the pilot not the plane”
@matawg no offense but you do not know how to properly use the f15 you where full after burn turning and 900 kmh in a f15 you need to stay between 600 and 400 kmh to have the optimal trunk time plus you had several chances to lunch or at leat try to launch a aim9m
Also you gottuse the flaps
9:51 after purposely getting killed, finally we got him
Su 27 is fine just buff the damn g limit for the f15 wings snapping , make it legit , not like its gonna out maneuver the su anyhow 😂 but eagle better be the fastest for tope speed 2.5 to 2.3
The F15 and SU27 are very close in terms of performance in a dog fight. In a flawless rate fight (meaning both aircraft maintain optimal speeds and turn) The F15 beats the SU27 by 1 degree. In a radius fight the SU27 Barely out performs the F15. I feel like if they were properly implemented it would come down to Who the better pilot was/ who knew their craft better.
@@Donut833 currently, F15 wins neither the radius fight or the rate fight. flanker just pulls in instantly, and gets solution as seen in the video. trying to swap it to a two circle fight and the F15 magically loses all its power below 650IAS and cant reach it again. and even on a top speed run, ive chased flankers from one side of the map to the other and between 450 to 1200 ias, i can beat them but you hit a speed wall once you cross 1250 and you stop accelerating unless you fly higher to use thinner air whereas the flanker just laughs at you and can pull away faster than your rip speed.
funny gaijin at it again
Finally, a tomcat with 9Ms
You have to do grippen vs mirage 4000 now
m4k wins by a lot
@@Main-itt no, the gripen wins
@@Nandin_04F no
@@Brooo0-x6y yes
@@Nandin_04F no
The F-15 is actually better due to its lower mass than the Su 27 and good retention of catch speeds, the f15 can do more than one lap without losing speed when the Su 27 already starts to stall
its time to add aim7P so the f15 can somewhat kill ground huggers
No offense, but all of these fights are just holding S... how about a dogfight between two people that have a clue how to fly the plane? sure Head ons dont show anything, but neither does this
The f15 isnt a bad dogfighter, you just dont know how to properly dogfight with it
F15 is Legendary dogfighter but it in E form not early A any russian plane other than su-34 and su57 has no chance aganist F15E in dogfight
the f15 feels dead on arrival, it doesn't get the best missiles, doesn't get the best radar, doesnt turn that well, gets out turned by any of the top tier jets and doesn't get a HMD. The f15 being an equal to the mig29SMT is basically calling it a bus, the SMT is a heavier mig29, that really can't dogfight any of the high tier jets, and the fact that the f15 doesn't out turn it, well. Personal opinion with over 20.000 games to back it, that thing is dead on arrival. The only reason i could see it win in top tier is, if the f15's/american teams are running full f15 teams vs mixed top tier jets and 11.3 jets, which usually happens. the teams early on usually consist of full top tier American jets vs a mix og bad Russian jets with some bombers, and a few top tier jets, since the Russian jets are not nearly as popular as the American jets usually are.
youre flying the eagle wrong
I heared they nefed it a lot maybe we shloud start a protest to remove that nerve
I love watching these f15 videos, the cope and seethe gives me life.
yeah f15 really sucks ass when you full pull the whole time and bleed its entire energy... if you do try to keep your speed above 400mph tho it can really do well
f15 just need hmd to be competitive against 12.3
The Su-27 was designed to counter the F-15 so theoretically the Su-27 should win more dogfights against the F-15. And personally I feel like the F-15 is a flying brick
There is no Russian Bias😭
O certo para essa briga seria f15C vs su27. Não o f15a
I agree
Not true becuase the f15 a has better flight performance the c is heavier
@@treykemmerer211the f15c has better flight performance than the A..
@@stable-corn no it doesn’t lmao the f15 a is lighter with the same afterburners
@@stable-corn the f15c is heavier by like 500
“We’re doing no head ons that doesn’t show anything ” bro knows nothing about dogfighting 😭 yes it does show a lot of things a head on when merging is called a one circle fight and ur forcing the rate fight which is a 2 circle which denies any chance for the flanker to kill the f15 because it can out rate the su27 (beat it in the 2 circle which is nose to tail) so this video means absolutely fucking nothing not even gonna lie don’t even bother watching it
No no no no no the f15 is not an interceptor it's a fighter it flys like a brick if it drops like this this it's doa I love the f15 and I do have a bias but come on man it can't even beat an smt almost no point in playing it just to get dicked down by every jet in the lobby
Summary: Don't play the f15A unless they fix their shit🤣
Just say the truth the f15 is gimped.
So it is unhistorical for the f 15 to be fighting the SU 27 the F-18 in the F-22 would have been more viable for this update. It’s honestly disappointing how they don’t know their history. And the fact that lost every dog fight to the Mig 29. Just makes me actually disappointed in the developers.
they should've just added the C variant
I'm fine with the F15 being worse in many cases against the su27...that's in game. IRL things can be quite different, I'll just leave it at that. I'm not going to quibble about it, both aircraft are great fighters, it just comes down to who's in the front seat. I fully prepared myself for Gaijin nerfing the Eagle but it does hurt a bit as I was a crewchief on the Eagle and in dealing with the pilots I'd heard many things from those pilots who'd gone 'beak-to-beak' with su27's and mig29's in training dogfights. Such is life in this game.
Without Fox-3 SU-27 will dominate but with Fox-3 i think F-15 would dominate, but we need to wait for that to be added
When Gripen comes USA and Russia main players are gonna turn into Crybaby and plead with the snail to nerf it
ppl gotta realize f15 isnt a dogfighter its more bvr
It's both, it was designed as both lol, I don't know where all these f-15 isn't a dogfighter comments are coming from lol. It's goal is to use it's powerful radar to win bvr before dogfight but it can still hang.
It you know the history, the F15 was over design because the US thought the Mig 25 was a advanced dogfighter.
@@Hawkeye6941Yep the f15 is very maneuverable but still won’t be as maneuverable as the su27. It should beat migs though
It is a dogfighter IRL. And BVR.
Its still all in development, i doubt it will stay this way.
Im not really surprised the f15 loses almost every time considering that its the A model, the first couple of f15s up until the c or something werent really anything special
At least compared to the Flanker. When 90% of what you're like to to fight is using MiG-23s and MiG-21s the Eagle is godlike.
i say russian planes are better but still i love US jets (BTW do you think F/A-18 is coming) this is my opinion i just dont love USA props end i dont want to be want to be rude to American viewers
The American aircraft design and technology has been better than russias for 50 years now.
F-15 really isn't meant to be a dogfighter and instead is an example of the Air Force's change in doctrine from Visual Engagement to Beyond Visual Engagements. I look forward to seeing the Mig-25, could you imagine just zooming past everything in your way?
It was designed to be a dogfighter, US thought the Mig 25 was some new advance dogfighter so the US over design it.
@@Hawkeye6941 No, it wasn't. Secondly the United States never thought the Mig-25 was a dog fighter because the characteristics were all wrong and matched up perfectly with the requirements of the F-X program of earlier decades which the F-X program was going to be a long range interdiction strike aircraft to satisfy the requirements of the interchangeability policy between the Air Force and Navy at the time.
However the F-X program never came to be and the closest thing they ever came to successfully accomplishing all goals was the F-111 which wasn't adequate enough to satisfy both the Air Force's requirement of being an interdiction air superiority fighter and the navy's requirement of being a long range interceptor. Which lead to the navy developing the F-14 under the F-VFX program after the failure of the F-111B.
And because soviet airforce doctrine at the time which was learned through thousands of engagements with them in Vietnam conflicted directly with U.S. air force doctrine which focused primarily on strike air craft without Air to Air capabilities at the time which lead directly to the F-4 phantom being updated to be the sole air superiority fighter aircraft by equipping it with a gun and loading it with long range missiles and a beefy radar.
However because soviet doctrine was to get as close as possible as fast as possible it put the F-4 as a distinct disadvantage which is why our doctrine changed by focusing more on BVR combat and investing heavily in missile and radar technology. Which the F-15 is designed to maximize.
But the TL;DR short of it is the F-15 was too fat to be a dogfighter which lead to the Fight Mafia starting the LWF program which lead to the F-16 and F/A-18 which are dog fighters.
All i can say...as a russian main to the american mains- american aircraft mains... sucks to suck LOL
Su-27 Flanker need a Nerf… it’s op
No?
@@maxstgl2991 Lmfao yes it is. Im not arguing with you just stating the obvious.
@@maxstgl2991 Bro we know the fact that Gaijin it’s russian, and obviously they gonna make op their planes.
@@aceofluftwaffe6444 Literally no ? The SU-27 Always was MEANT to be Superior in the air (Maneuverability), I think you mean The F-15A needs a Buff because IMO it looks rough. It honestly funny at this point watching these people be mad at "Realism".
@@Ambush_ytand even so the only 2 top tier planes su can outturn rn are 29SMT and f-15 both have a “bus” FM rn
Im not gonna trust any take from RB because the instructor is way too limiting
Majority of the community plays RB, not that many people play sim comparatively
@@thatoneguy1741 and? Thats not gonna make me trust RB player's opinions on the flight models any more.
You're missing the fact that it is dev server flight model anyway and it always change to the live server
@@nicolaspeigne1429 oh, dont get me wrong im fully aware. I was just throwing that statement out there
@@aviatorlewski9310Gaijin 'balances' the planes however they want anyways. This whole aim at irl authenticity only applies when it suits them.
we already know the su 27 will be meta, its russian.
F16 was the Meta for the past 6 months???
@@maxstgl2991the same was with the mig 29 before the nerf
@@maxstgl2991LOL no Mig 27 has been since it has the best missiles.
@@StorlansThe f16c was meta and was considered the best fighter by everyone until the MiG 29g came out
American mains butthurt that they dont get the best plane in game once again, after having dominated air RB for the last 6 months
It’s not that we buthurt it’s just you add a plane that was 4 mid radar missiles high no hmd and no tws while Russia has now the 6 best missles on one jet with 4 amazing ir missiles
The only good thing in us right now is the f 16 flight performance but the missiles still are nothing compared to su 27
Only reason why we mad is because we don’t only wanna use the f16 for another couple months we want to be able to use both but we can’t since f 15 will get slammed by any jet in its br
And Russia is the only country who gets hmd in updates and off boresight ir missiles which js dumb
Braindead russian mains trying to enforce the idea that they didn't dominate the past 6 months. Meanwhile everybody has to fly low to avoid the overkill R-27ER.
f14vsf15!
f-15 is garbage, if f-14 would get same missiles af f-15, f-14 would be much better lmao, its fly like a bus, typical gaijin.
#bufff15
First