I Found Super Rare Barrels & Pistons In My Barn Find Triumph T140 Bonneville | 08
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- I Found Super Rare Barrels & Pistons In My Barn Find Triumph T140 Bonneville | 08
In this episode having removed the engine and gearbox from my 1975 Triumph Bonneville T140V I am now cleaning the pistons and having another look at the head.
Here are some of the tools I am going to be using for this bike:
Piston Ring Pliers: ebay.us/4zTfYV
Imperial Combination Spanner Set: ebay.us/gYz85M
Imperial 1/2inch Socket set: ebay.us/jylH05
Imperial Allen Hex Bit Sockets: ebay.us/iFV0OQ
I have had no success with removing the head from the barrels of my barn find Triumph T140V Bonneville. In a recent episode I left the head and barrels to soak in a vat of paraffin (US Kerosene) in the hope it might free them up. They ended up being left for a couple of weeks, and although it did clean them up more it didn’t free the head off. I did notice that there seemed to be more room around most of the studs coming through the head. So for the past week or so I have been putting penetrating oil into the gaps around the studs every day or so.
In this video I show a little of the heating and hammering that I have tried, but I have found something out that makes me reluctant to go too far with the hammering. More of that later. So needless to say it didn’t work.
I wanted to clean up the pistons for reuse if they worked out OK, so I had left them soaking in white spirit while the head and barrel was soaking. Upon inspection I could see that on one piston 2 of the pistons rings were stuck and 1 on the other piston. To aid removal I decided to warm the pistons while I was cooking the head and barrels. I had them in an oven at 200 centigrade for an hour or so.
Once I started to remove the piston rings I managed to get the 2 out of one of the pistons, but the one in the other piston was not for moving. So I added extra heat, and with that I managed to get it out. Unfortunately in doing so it snapped in half. Normally this wouldn’t really be an issue as I would usually be planning to change them anyway, but with what I found out this might turn out to be a bigger problem.
The pistons are made by ASSO-WERKE which although it sounds German turns out to be an Italian company. I cleaned one using a Scotch Pad wheel and judicious use of fire brushes. And it shows they will come up nice and clean, and more importantly usable.
I didn’t continue with the other at this point because of what I discovered.
I had noticed in the comments of other videos in the playlist of my barn find Triumph T140V Bonneville, that a couple of people had mentioned aluminium nikasil plated barrels that were produced by Gilardoni for LH Harris in the ‘80s. I didn’t give it much attention at the time, but when I started to inspect my barrels a little more, it looks like these might be these ones.
I believe that these were only produced in relatively small numbers, and I can't see any information about them being sold outside of Europe so how they have ended up in this bike's engine is anybody's guess. However it does give me a headache. I am not sure what I will now do. I have read that I will need different to standard piston rings to work with the nikasil, and now I have broken one I will definitely need some. I am also concerned that there was an issue with the studs in some of these barrels, which I haven't investigated yet. But I have been giving a bit of percussion to the head, so there is a chance I may have caused some damage to them, probably not, but I can't be sure.
I will try IMD to see if I can get piston rings, because if not my other option will become pretty much my only option. That is to buy replacement barrels, head and pistons. Oh well here we go again.
For more helpful how-to guides and restoration project logs, visit our blog: www.spannerras...
As an Amazon Associate, Ebay Partner and Awin Affiliate, we earn a small commission from qualifying purchases. Some of our links are affiliate links, and if you decide to purchase things through them, we earn a small commission. It costs you nothing but helps us to keep the content coming. Thanks for your support!
I always appreciate the time and care you take when working. I have found boiling pistons in a dilute washing soda works well provided you dont leave it too long. Bead blasting or fine wire wool to finish.
Thanks, great advice. I am going to try out the Ultra Sonic cleaner first on the one that I haven't done yet.
I have run t140v on daily basis. Have used the fancy barrel and piston combo. Yep different setup. I went back to standard as this was practical. Went around Europe on her. Do look at oil cooler and breathing. Which makes standard stuff last longer. Ps now run her as a tr7 lot less hassle.
Thanks for the interesting information. I can understand that using standard makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought about an oil cooler, but I was looking at the extra crankcase breather that some people have fitted at the front, to cut crankcase pressure, and thus leaking.
I'm not sure which way I'd go on that one. It looks like there was some blow-by on one of the pistons, so that would worry me a little, as far as putting it back together with all the current parts and running it...but all you'd loose is the time you spend on it if you tried that route. It could be an interesting experiment. Another thing to think about, will the head and cylinders be oil tight? Yes it's stuck together, but that doesn't mean it won't have some spots that leak, especially since you've been soaking it and heating it in an attempt to uncouple the two parts. Which ever way you go, it'll make for some good videos.
Thanks for the lengthy advice. I spotted the blow-by, I wondered if maybe the rings had become stuck before it stopped being used. I am with you about the oil tightness. It struck me that the seals on the pushrod tubes might not have survived the heat soaking very well. There is also the issue about piston rings, I believe that they need to be specific for nikasil bores, so they may not be available! But it is still tempting if I could source rings, just to see. Like you said apart from the rings it would only cost time, but time is always in short supply. These projects are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.
If you reassemble it you may be able to "hydraulic" the head off by filling the bores with oil and swinging on the kickstart. On the other hand you have a very solid head gasket joint which is unwilling to part so may be good for an other few years. I have had similar problems over the years, its good to see someone tackling them instead of an edited restoration which shows no struggle.
I had thought of getting the both pistons at BDC, putting some starter fluid in both barrels, putting the plugs back in and applying a spark. Your plan does sound more rational. I am worried about the pushrod tube seals having give up the ghost through the heating etc, so I think the put it back together idea might not be a good one, and I don't want to spend time and money on piston rings that might not be the answer. As for tackling problems everything seems to go sweet for other peoples builds, I thought the problems were just mine. :)
Screw the struggle ...Let's ride instead...
I had a suzuki gt550 back in the day which the later ones had nikasil bores and the had different rings to the steal bores, as the top ring is not chrome on the Nikasil bores but is on the steel bores.
My only knowledge of Nikasil before finding these in my Triumph was that they were a big issue in big BMW cars and the advice was to avoid. It seems Sulphur in fuel, not there now, caused problems. My research now shows what an advantage using Nikasil can be, but as the bikes/cars I am interested in will be a bit long in the tooth now, it is always going to be a bit of a concern.
Have you tried undoing the studs that go thu the head into the barrel also try using actone mixed with some automatic transmision fluid to use as an anti seize fluid on the studs before you try to undo them let them soak for a while first. the other thing to try is heating and freezing the head and barrel rather than just heating it.
Thanks, I have tried a lot of what you suggest apart from freezing. That will be next! If I don't decide on one of my other potential solutions.
Try those blow up pillows to get the head off, they can lift a lot of weight.
Interesting I will have to look it up.
You could probably drill the s/steel studs out with a drill press and carbide drills, I wouldn't try to do it by hand
I don't think my drilling skills would be up to that. I am going to have another go with a decent stud extractor I think, then into a hydraulic press. If it breaks it breaks!
So heats right but it’s the transition from hot to cold that’s the trick heat those aluminium heads and barrel as hot as you dare ! You need a heat gauge !!!!
It’s below melting!!!
Then you HIT IT with water it’s the going from one temp to other that causes the gunk to move this spaying with a cans wasting time immersion is a good start “Shock “
Sounds like a good idea. I have put the head and barrels on hold for the moment, but whenI get back to them I may well try this, and shoving them in the freezer overnight, before the heat.
Have you tested and verified the valves to be sealing properly? And what of the fit of the valves in the guides, or other damage to the guides? If refit or replacement of any valve assembly parts is needed, I would think separation of head/barrels will be required.
I really do want to check out the cyclinder head and valves. The idea of just refitting the top end is a wild one, and not likely to happen. I left the combustion chambers with acetone in for a few days and they seemed to be sealing quite well. It is in one of the earlier videos. I think the new parts, or machine shop are the most likely options at the moment.
Given some of the comments you have replied to here it's a no-brainer...another set of barrels/heads & pistons and while ya off riding that thing you can play around at getting the old set sorted out , why over complicate the situation.
Sounds like a KISS solution. Always the best!
I’d love to know how he cleaned out the ring grooves
Missed videoing that :( Patience, a small pick, and a brass brush on a dremel, all used with a lot of care. Hope that helps.
Go with olivertabram's advise regards stud removal even if it means breaking some studs.Pretty sure that it's the studs that are siezed on the barrel and not the head gasket.
I am sure you are right about the studs, but I do think that it is likely that the head gasket it not helping.
@@SPANNERRASH There is no way a gasket is holding the head that firmly. Stud extractor of the type with 3 rollers inside grip the stud far better than those with a knurled wheel. Oh and invest in a decent piece of wood to use as a drift. Using a hammer makes you look very unprofessional (putting it politely). Heat the head before extracting studs as that will ease any pinch on the studs.
I really must get some better extractors, I keep saying that. Great tune with the little hammer though. I wasn't giving any serious blows. I do need some hardwood drifts, and some brass drifts. Heat is always our friend, but it hasn't helped yet.
I'll swap you a perfect as new iron barrel top end for yours as it is with the head stuck on.
Interesting proposition, if you message we could discuss. I wondered if somebody might be more interested in the barrels than I am.
I think the rings weren't gapped properly and it was running too tight ,hence that score.
Thanks for the info, you should look at my CB750 Cafe build for surprising scored barrels, with rings that were totally wrong. This one is giving a whole load of other issues, to worry about first.
Use a quality stud remover NOT 2 nuts locked together!.
Thanks. It is an idea that is on the list. I was also thinking of welding nuts onto the studs as well.
Just buy standard barrels ,pistons and head , you'll sleep better at night
Sounds like a sensible plan. Better than sleeping pills.
This is just a thought i havn't worked on bikes for many years and never owned a brit bike , those rings look like they are seized with carbon wonder if soaking them in dpf cleaner would help free them up , too late i know just a thought
Thanks, I will look into dpf cleaner. It sounds like it might be a good idea for the future.
I have the same barrels and pistons..
Interesting. Do yours have Triumph or Gilardoni cast on to them? I have seen both in some images. What is your experience with them?
@@SPANNERRASH Yes mine have Triumph and Gilardoni on them. Along with alloy pushrod tubes and tappet blocks
Mine only has Triumph on them, normal pushrod tubes, and alloy tappet blocks.
They’re not magnetic, they’re ferrous.
If they were ferrous they'd be magnetic wouldn't they. But they are alloy.