WHAT ELSE IS THERE: Lessons The Swan Princess Taught Us
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2018
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“You should write a book on how to offend women in 5 syllables or less”
hardest roast ever
That line is iconic
I always loved that quote lmfao XD he was savage AF!!!
I was at a comic convention, and they were celebrating an anniversary of this show, and they actually had the book… it was a journal, but it said on the front of it "How to offend women in 5 syllables or less by Prince Derek". I bought it so fast.
I completely forgot about this movie for a very long time, but this line
This one line has been in the back of my mind since I was a kid
Best line in the entire damn movie
People who think Odette became passive and docile because she was turned into a swan have obviously never met a swan..
Swans are so aggressive. Everyone thinks they’re so graceful and passive, but they are just as mean as geese.
They're passive as long as you don't piss them off... We had a swan couple at my parents house last summer or the previous and they had a baby and they never gave us any trouble because they *know* they're bad bitches and can fuck you up if they want to, they didn't give two shits about us watching them swim by the beach but we knew to keep our distance as well because you have to respect them, they are *massive* birds.
swans will cut you up and eat you for breakfast-- 2nd only to geese-- nah they're all mean af
Scarily protective of their young! Fear the wrath of a swan and their wing cuffs! 0.0
😂😂😂😂
They really blew it with that scene with the Odette imposter, that was their moment, it could have solved the whole plot. Have Dereck call her out as an imposter, because he knows the real one to well. Have him argue with other people who think she's Odette, and he'd have to start listing things other than her looks. He'd be forced to put it into words. It would convince the audience that he really loves her, instead of showing us that he can't tell her apart from an old hag in a costume acting nothing like her. And when he reunites with Odette, he'd know what to say.
Yeah that would have been better, but I guess the writers wanted to get the most important parts of the real story of the swan princess, like the curse, the vow of true love, the prince mistaking the princess, and her dying.
Your version would have still been better.
@@Anonymous_P goes to show that sometimes the original story isn't better 😂
Anna NA if I’m remembering correctly, the spell didn’t specify that Derek had to literally tell it to her face. The vow was for odette, and an imposter isn’t the real odette so it didn’t make sense. An even then, the act of everlasting love is just Derek announcing to his court that he loves odette. He could have done the same thing in front of odette with nobody around and the sentiment will still be the same. What needed to be fixed was to specify that he needed to tell it to odette, and that it needed to be more than him announcing it in front of everyone and for it to be more personal
Agreed!
@@Fingerscrossedout Eh, that's arguable. Mind you the original story is a tragedy the fact that he fucks up lis the point. He mistakes another woman for her therefore breaking his vow to her she dies and he decides to die with her having stupidly betrayed her. The mistake here is in trying to make a happy ending for what's originally a tragedy while keeping the story beat that leads to that original tragic ending. That's the fault of the makers of this movie not an issue with the original story.
The fact that Derek and Odette had such a good back story that then compleatly falls flat by the second half is honestly such a tragic wasted opportunity.
But maybe the next generation can pull it off.
@@theresahall8206 I doubt they would
@@soaribb32 I don't know they are at least off to a better start than Derek and odette. They are at least friends who have gone on adventures together since they met. Maybe they will be the next king and queen.
I don't think it fell flat :) it's a beautiful love story.
What do you mean? It’s all cliche. From the beginning til the end. Your standards are way too high if you’re going to apply “wasted opportunity” to a children’s movie.
I will absolutely share the blame of not making "What else is there?" a meme. That entire scene is iconic.
I hope someone will now that it's been mentioned :)
I've seen it used quite a bit in the sporking community over the years, but nowhere else.
fuck a memes
Honestly Roger's epic burn is more iconic to me. But that's because I use it at least monthly. In variations 😂😂😂
Thought the same lol
I think Odette "stopped" being that badass chick because, not only was she cursed, she lost her father. She's sad, perharps depressed. I do find frustating that she becomes less "active", but I get why.
that is a valid interpretation, but I feel like if that's what they were going for it should have been addressed in some manner - making it difficult for her to genuinely laugh, or showing her face drain of "happiness" as soon as the animal friends leave even though nothing new that would cause that reaction has happened, or even just having her talk about it.
Seems like she stopped before that. Notice that in their final meeting before the curse, she's already acting nothing like her younger self. She's already become far less brash
@@stevenhiggins3055 People get that way with age. You become more mature and level headed.
It's implied that they had fallen in love gradually. Derek kind of admits he likes Odette to Bromley when Bromley asks him this "I think you really sort of like her fess up" "I'd like her better if she'd lose at cards". The whole is set up as "Can't stand each other as little kids, start liking each other despite still being antagonistic towards each other, to genuinely falling in love and not realizing it till adults.
I wouldn't even say Odette is passive or docile considering how much she does and fights in this movie. People need to remember that she just lost her father and is more than likely depressed about her situation, plus she doesn't know her way back to her kingdom from there as she's never left the area as a human. Being able to just fly in the general direction of your kingdom till you find it is a lot easier than having to rough miles to get there, only to not make it in time to stay in Human form.
The problem is that she doesn’t *even seems* to be mourning;at the very least she’s sad because her *fiancé* isn’t here (to save her) anymore...
"Derek's mother is immediately facepalming as hard as it's possible to facepalm that she's raised an idiot" - lol true.
I just love how Rogers isn’t afraid to bash Derek either. Like, DUDE, you’ve known her literally ever since she was born, and I get you were being a complete brat because you’re a boy. But come on, how stupid can you be to say she’s beautiful and when she asks why you love her “WhAt ElSe Is ThErE” 🤦🏻♀️ As crazy and uptight as Uberta can be, even she realizes her own son is a complete idiot
It makes me so happy to know I'm not the only one who internalized the phrase "what else is there" and finds themselves quoting it in adult life
I do that with many things. Such as numbers. “Fifteen! Fifteen! How marvelous, how perfect-oh ugghhhh!” Or “THIRTY-SIX, BUT LAST YEAR-LAST YEAR THERE WERE THIRTY-SEVEN!!”
God knows being told “you’ll be QUITE the looker when your older” at the age of 9 is *totally* a compliment
This movie saved me from being vain
To be fair, Odette HAD fallen in love with Derek over the years. She enjoyed putting him in his place too; because she loved him, she wanted him to see her for who she was. That's why she didn't just shut him down when he said "you're beautiful". She thanked him, but then asked what else, because she wanted him to show that he loved her too. If she really didn't care about him and believe in him, she wouldn't have danced with him and she would have flat out said NO when he announced his desire to marry her. She didn't though... she asked him to wait. She wanted to know he loved her too, because she saw that yes, he was a bit dense... but he had hidden depths too. He was mischievous, sporty, his best friend was a commoner (which is like, CRAZY shocking for those times), but he was also brave, determined, and knew how to commit when he found something he cared about.
If Odette had REALLY hated him, she could have just as easily ditched him during the visits. After all, she had no qualms about refusing him and leaving after about 15 years of being told they'd marry, just because he COULDN'T express why he loved her. But... loving someone is a complicated thing. She knew Derek, probably better than he knew himself, because she had faith even when it seemed hopeless. She believed that he'd come for her, that he'd find a way to save her. And it's not like she just sat around waiting. She went and got the map. She led him to the lake, showed him her plight, and told him how to save her. Because she believed he'd be looking for her, and then she believed in his strong will to get things done. The only thing that kept her from falling into complete despair was her faith in him.... and we see the moment breaks when Rothbart tells her that there will be no moon on the fated night, so she won't be able to go Derek.
I know that on the surface, their relationship feels vapid and forced, like any dumb fairy tale... But when you look at the context, and think about how the story was built up to set a starting point, it plays out a lot more interesting and touching.
Thank you! I was afraid I was going to have to figure out how to articulate all that. But you did a much better job of it than I could have. This is one of the few animated films that has a "they lived happily ever after" ending that actually had relationship and history build-up in the beginning to further solidify the relationship at the end. It's probably my favorite thing about the film.
🙌 this 🙌
Yes.
You are completely right. I feel like this video was really only taking this movie at face value.
This comment is perfect. Thank you so much!!! ❤️
I think the issue is that most kids do take these kind of movies at face value. Yes, we can later dissect them as adults, but what of how 6 year old me saw this movie, and what it taught me about relationships then? I’m not saying that lessons have to be over simplified for kids to understand it, but we’re not taught to think critically until much later in life.
Growing up-montage Odette and rest of movie Odette are like two different people. Did she get a lobotomy? Did Rothbart's spell make her docile like a swan*, as someone here suggested?
Also, child me never trusted that Derek learnt that beauty isn't all there is.
It seems like a middle part of the story is missing, wherein young adult Odette and Derek turn their love at first sight to genuine, everlasting love, and THEN after this she gets kidnapped and he wants to save her.
@ThiefRikku0306 docile like we imagine them to be but aren't*
@@33melonpaws77 Despite looking so noble, they can be quite the jerks.
One of the bit my Mother in the Knee, because it didn't get Bread.
Dude... swans are ANYTHING but docile. They are BADASSES. If I wanted to control a girl, I would NOT turn her into a swan, I'd make her a canary or something. A swan's wing can snap your leg, they don't take shit from ANYONE, and they pair bond for life. You mess with a swan's mate? They will SHRED you. They have little TEETH in their beaks, and they will not hesitate to bite, hiss, scream, and beat the life out of anything threatening them or their family. Everyone thinks that swans are this symbol of grace, tranquility, elegance and peace because of their delicate shape and how smoothly they glide through the water. People never seem to realize that swans are total mercs....
I see what you're saying, there are some plot holes that could use answers but I still love the movie and cherish it.
@@KitsunenoHibi much like geese lol, I've been bitten by an angry goose before that wanted bread from me XD the entire flock practically chased me through the park.
There's a dating app where the section where you enter your height/weight/body type/eye color/etc is labeled "What Else Is There" and I'm 100% sure it's a reference.
No!
Which app!! I need to screenshot it!!!
What's the app?
Anyone find out what app this is yet?
Omg I need this app
I always found Swan Princess such an underrated movie to talk about, cause of how much it's both like a lot more progressive and yet so much less than a lot of other Princess movies. Great job on all the detail on like all the different things it teaches kids!
And when people do talk about it, they only say how terrible it is, which makes me very sad. :(
@@Hewylewis
I never heard anyone talking about it, so... *yay.*
I think it’s because it’s like Swan Lake Ballet which it is based off of
Only because it isn't a Disney movie
Also because not really good.
thank god somebody else watched this movie, that opening sequence is one of my favorite openings of all time.
the odette in the opening is one of my favorite characters ever-- she beats the shit out of her betrothed, she cheats at cards and is smug about winning, she calls the prince a pansy and bets he doesn't even lift, she's absolutely fantastic.
Same lol
I agree, but isn't he the one cheating at cards?
I keep saying that this movie is a cautionary tale on gender stereotypes: if someone had taught Derek how to express his feelings or Odette how to wield a sword the movie would have ended after about 10 minutes.
Well, then The Swan Princess would’ve been the right length for an animated short!
That is an EXCELLENT point
Yeah but real life isn't like that either so...
That is such a good point! I never thought about that!
holy cow, you are so right!
I keep seeing men asking "How do I tell the difference between "hard to get" and "no" and I keep telling them "If you can't, move on." It's honestly the only smart move for them if they don't want to unknowingly harass someone. Communication needs to be a two way street, and the stakes are high enough that it's just safer to assume she doesn't want it. If our "signals" aren't clear enough to men that they are able to clearly tell the difference between hard to get and no, that's their job to assume no and our job to be more clear.
^Truth.
Yes! I hate girls in movies that say one thing and it means the opposite. If I want something, I will say it. No means No.
Agreed. Me and my girlfriend realized pretty early on that we're the type of people who prefer clear signals instead of beating around the bush.
So what about the women who can't accept 'no' from men and keep stalking them for a yes only to turn it around for profit as 'he wouldn't leave me alone? #DontBelieveWomen
@@twistabysssugarfreebanana3863 Guess what? That sucks too, and nobody is saying it doesn't. Stop playing the "what about" game and actually accept that you have to take responsibility for your actions.
"You lost your queen!"
"That's TWICE in one day!"
As a kid I didn't get it but now I really love that line
Oh and I didn't completely agree with you either on the whole thing with Odette kissing the frog. She did it because she wanted to not because she felt like she had to. She wanted help him cause he was saying he was under a spell and he had saved her life. That's more like helping a friend out not rewarding him with her body. Plus it was a kiss on the cheek. Like that's not a big deal.
Agreed. She wanted to. She didn't feel obligated. She cared about him! He was her friend, sacrificed a lot for her, and was a comfort in her time of grief and hardship.
Agreed :)
Agreed.
Plus, he's a frog.
Merui if I remember this part of the movie, they were all stuck below the tower with alligators. Odette kisses the frog to save herself and I think get the princes attention or get the gators away.
Agreed!!
It’s also interesting that the queen (dereks mom) is pretty emotional and goofy. Normally when you see queens get a lot of focus in kids movies, they’re pretty mature and coolheaded, (often their king is usually portrayed as the goofier one, if they are married) even when they aren’t explicitly evil. If a queen is goofy, usually they aren’t explicitly good (for example, the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland) It’s just an interesting touch.
My thought is always, Derek was put on the spot. He says the first thing that came to mind and had absolutely no idea how to respond. He knows he loves her, he knows why and that he has for a while, but he doesn't know exactly how to express that. Odette doesn't leave because she believes he only cares about her beauty, she leaves because even if she knows he sees more than that she still needs to hear and obviously he isn't ready.
She still loves him, and she still knows he loves her. .. therefore we get Far Longer Than Forever. It's about faith even in the face of adversity. Yeah, he screwed up. But she knows he's better than that. And someone who only cares about appearance wouldn't have pined for her after she disappeared. He wouldn't have reacted the way he did to seeing her again.
At the party, I never thought they actually didn't recognize her. Even as a kid I always looked at it as; she looks like Odette but can't possibly be since Odette is dead so who is she? It's less that they don't recognize her, and more that it doesn't even occur to them that it could because they think she'd dead. Derek makes the vow to the wrong person, not because he only cares about beauty, but because he is so happy to see her again that he can barely contain it. He's less likely to notice differences (particularly if there's been a time gap wherein she's been captured) because he's just glad she's alive and there. After thinking the love of his life was dead, this would be a very powerful thing that he's had less than a day to let sink in.
The line as she's dying, is what he'd meant to say earlier when she refused to marry him. It's him proving to Odette and himself that she was right to believe in him. That there's more to him. That's him overcoming his own immaturity, his own internal conflict because of his love for her, and that's what saves her.
I love this comment!
It could be disbelief or denial on the party's part that the woman who looks like Odette can't be Odette because it's been accepted that Odette died. However, if the logic is to get Derek to talk to the wrong girl, what if it's a glamour spell that only affects him since he's the mark and everyone else sees him dancing with a hag with Odette's body shape. It gives the scene a quiet horror you'd see in most fantasy and fairy tale stories that feature glamour.
Yes, I share this same analysis of the film. For me overall this is a love story and in the end they face their issues, work towards their relationship, overcome an extreme adversity, and find that they are on the same page with how much they care for one another. That was the main lesson I took away from this film. I think diving deeper into the story more than that can bring up a lot of things that can be seen as flawed or bad teachings when viewed through a modern day lense but I don't think this film was created to showcase strong life lessons. Plus I still melt when Odette asks Derek is he'll love her til the day she dies and he says "Much longer Odette."
That's a really generous interpretation cassie.
@@firegirl_lanae My husband tells me forever is too short a time, when I ask if he will love me forever.
I always assumed the enchantment on Odette made her passive. With a personality closer to a docile swan.
I also assumed the fear of not being able to become human again kept her from trying to escape the lake.
But i haven't seen it in a while so i could be remembering it wrong
that would explain her huge personality change.
"docile"
"swan"
HA HA no
@@taski1 I know right? Swans are mean fuckers. Beautiful of course, and sometimes willing to be briefly nice for food-- but in general they're not interested in playing nice.
Also they're graceful on the water and in flight, but on land they are a bit gravity challenged, I've seen them trip and it's kind of hilarious... from a safe distance. XD
That too.
I always felt that Odette realized what most modern women know about men, they are little boys that need to put in the work for the relationship. She loves him and knows Derek does love her back, but she’s not falling into his arms for just nothing, he’s gotta use his words and provide the romance. And Derek does say to the Black Swan that she seems different, but he had also just been paraded all night in front of thirsty princesses with no regards for his feelings, he was likely so happy to see her at the party that he didn’t notice her differences for a few moments. I love this couple so much.
Thank you!
I also thought Derrick was under a spell to fall for the black swan so that Odette will never have the spell broke. I could be wrong it's been a while since I have watched it.
I agree with you, but your comment makes it seem like it's good/okay that he's so immature and stuff but like.. if odette can manage so should he
I LOVE this 😊💕
That's completely off orly.
"Don't let her die!"
"Is that a threat?"
"Don't you *dare* let her die!"
"Ooh! It *is* a threat!"
The first time I had a crush I threw a bottle cap at him as hard as I could and then ran away.
Now I think I know where I got that from.
Nothing says "kiss me" like a projectile weapon to the face.
So, the King died, the heir was assumed dead for maybe months.... What happened to their kingdom? Who took over that? It's never adressed
I have no idea either.
I was always under the impression that a long amount of time passed between Odette being kidnapped and the in-movie reveal of her curse. Long enough for her to become close friends with Jean-Bob and Speed and possibly have already TRIED to rescue herself. Rothbart states that she's obstinate and gives the impression that she's tried to get free on her own already, multiple times even.
When I was younger, I figured that a couple years or so had passed after her initial disappearance (the side characters even state that Derek has been obsessing over trying to find Odette/the thing that killed her father for a long time), which would explain why no one recognizes 'her' when the fake Odette comes to the ball. It's possible that, if at least a year or so HAS passed, Odette's given up on trying to break the curse herself and has put all her hopes into Derek finding her and breaking the curse.
It at least makes the sudden switch from headstrong young-Odette to much more docile older-Odette a little easier to understand and that her initial rejection of Derek doesn't take a sudden 180. She's had some time to figure things out and she's realized that the only plausible person who can rescue her and be her 'True Love' is Derek.
The thing with ”a boy being mean actually likes you” is a really dangerous thing to teach girls. I fell for it as a kid and I fell for it hard. I went out of my way to get repeatedly abused by boys I liked because movies like these had told me that ”boys that hits you do it because he likes you”. I was convinced that the boy who made the scars on my body was my soulmate, so I let him. That’s fucked up and it fucked me up. That shit needs to stop.
A boy bugged me in 1st grade. My teacher told me that meant he likes me. I always felt that's kind of dumb. I really hope you are able to get past that :(
You are right in every way. A boy who is mean to you in the childhood CAN like you but he is mean bacause he is just a dump boy who is growing up and tries to test his limits not because he likes you. This way many women are going for the abusers later in live and get more than heartbroken.
also even if they do do it BC they like u, that's not ok!!! boys should be taught to properly deal with their emotions
I've always thought that that statement was stupid, even though I was really naive about a lot of things back then
I feel for you. A boy being mean just means he is mean. I know. My father beat my mom and one of my earliest childhood memories is jumping on his back to try and stop him when I was less than six. I couldn't understand why my mom took it and I really hated my father. I didn't hate him for beating me up or locking me up in his car to learn the multiplication table (actually that turned out to be useful as it drilled love for learning into me, but I would speak against anyone doing the same to their children). I hated him for beating up my mom. He's dead now, and I don't mourn him, but he died miserable and alone as a result of the life he chose for himself. My fiancee has suffered to similar things, though without the physical abuse, thankfully, all because she's handicapped due to birth brain palsy. It took some doing to convince her to trust me, but now she's not only my beloved but my best friend. I hope you can find someone like that in your life, if you haven't already.
Magical princess don't have mother
Tiana mom: am i joke to you?
also rupunzels mom
Tiana became a princess by marriage.
ana farhana she’s a modern princess :v
Both were made decades later than this one
Mulan, Aurora, Merida, Rapunzel
Good to know that at 26 I can still quote the shit out of this movie. Great analysis.
Oh my, I've been wanting someone to talk about this movie for so many years. I credit it with my love of romance later in life, and I love how you unpacked the themes at play. Overall, I feel like it does more good than it does harm, especially in teaching girls to value their personal space/agency in a relationship. And while Derek's an idiot, I find him refreshingly clueless. he admits how dumb he is, and that feels rare to me.
then our standards for men as romantic leads continue to be rock bottom xD
Yes ^.~
ButtersnJelly
There's many different kinds of "dumb" as there is "smart". And as far as I remember about this movie, Derek wasn't necessarily an idiot if he went through the trouble near the end of the movie to save Odette from the bad guy who cursed her in the movie. Many guys are bad at responding "correctly" to feelings especially when it comes to girls. But that doesn't necessarily make a dude "an idiot" just because they don't actually understand how a girl feels. The same goes for the other way around.
I've always been confused why Odette says "no" one minute and then sings that their love is eternal, "Far Longer Than Forever," almost immediately. Like, what?
Because she did love him but didn't want his only reason to be with her was because she was beautiful. She wanted him to love more then just her looks.
That doesn't answer his question aimee.
I think probably some time has passed in-story so she's changed her attitude after being trapped for a while. Which is kind of sad that she dropped all her skepticism about him because she's desperate for something to be hopeful about, but... yeah.
Because they do love each other; they both know it. She rejected him because he couldn't put it to words to show that he really appreciates her. But once she's in actual danger, she knows that no force on Earth could stop him from getting to her.
Kinda funny you used Pride and Prejudice in the "Antagonism = True Love in Media" montage since Elizabeth only started to come around to Darcy after they STOPPED being antagonistic towards each other. He stopped being condescending, cleared up misinformation, and helped Elizabeth's family, and she comes around thanks to that and because she let go of her initial impressions of him being a stuck up jerkass.
Yes! I think the misinterpretation of this romance as well as other classic romances like Anne and Gilbert are responsible for the "conflict as courtship" trope. However later versions completely miss the point. Neither Lizzy or Anne felt any romantic feeling for Darcy or Gilbert until they make up for their past jerkassness. And it takes a long time for that to happen! Also neither girl takes any of their shit sitting down. Lizzy rips Darcy a new one for his behavior and Anne literally brains Gilbert with her slate.
@@mikaylaeager7942 I don't know, Darcy seemed like he was the only one trying and changing for her. In the book, Elizabeth even says she didn't realise she loved him until she saw Pemberly. I understand how Darcy came off as prideful and all that, but to me he just seemed kind of lost and uncomfortable in environments and situations he wasn't used to...similar to a person with autism (I have autism and noticed how the character had traits that resembled my own and many other people with the same mental disorder)
Honestly, I can kind of see myself in him
@@cassandramurfitt4356 I definitely head cannon Darcy as autistic! I see myself in him as well (I'm also autistic funny enough). However although some of the things he did were simply misinterpreted, there were some things that were more than a little rude. Interfering with Bingley and Jane for one (you mess with my sister like that I'd cut you a new one) and insulting her family during the proposal (only family gets to shit talk family I don't care how true what your saying might be). Of course he more than makes up for these mistakes and that's why he love him. :)
@@mikaylaeager7942 with bingley and Jane, I thought it was cruel but then it was explained he didn't want his friend in a loveless marriage with a girl who he thought was just after his money based on the assumption of their b.tch of a mother pushing her. God, I hated the mother so much. I swear most of the problems were because of her, but I do think the father was at fault for Lydia as well since he could have stopped her going to Brighton
@@mikaylaeager7942 I'm not trying to defend his actions because he is one of my favourite characters, I'm just saying how I interpreted it. Honestly, I would be pissed if it were my sister that a guy ruined the happiness of
7:35 Don't you really think that, after being cursed turning into a swan, it's kind of a cruel joke to add feather-like ornaments on her wedding dress?
Imagine the victims from Human Centipede miraculously being given life-saving surgery that freed them from their awful situation only for their birthdays to be constantly be arthropod-themed.
There's an interesting fan theory that Odette and Derek faked the whole "we hate each other" thing because they managed to find themselves alone and discovered that they wanted to engage in a relationship on their own terms while also making their feelings on autonomy of women clear, with the whole "What else is there?" being the final step in the prank. Then Rothbart got involved and derailed the whole thing.
Conversely that same theory has the variation where "What else is there?" was a legitimate Idiot Ball moment for Derek and Odette was genuinely hurt by it. Derek would have eventually apologized but again Rothbart messed things up.
That sounds like a lot of fun! I would love to read a fic with that idea. XD
Liz Callaway was Odette's singing voice but Michelle Nicastro (RIP) was her speaking voice.
But tbh I feel young Odette was great but adult Odette lost so much of her luster to become the Damsel.
I think Odette did stood up to Rothbart and help tend Puffin’s injuries, saved Brom from drowning, finding the map to lure Derek to where she’s being held captive, and is kinda funny with Jean Bob. A much better heroine than Aurora who does not do anything.
Princess Aurora had BOTH of her parents. Just sayin’.
Edit ; I only mention Aurora because Laura specifically showed a picture of Aurora when she mentioned the bit about orphan tropes. I am aware there are other princesses under the “official Disney” umbrella that still have their parents, I just targeted Princess Aurora specifically because that’s who she showed in the clip. 👍🏻
Moana and Merida, too
And Rapunzel.
@Hillary Sanderson eh, still a princess in Disney's eyes (for some reason) 🤷
If we're talking about the "Disney Princess" line of products, then there are twelve official princesses, of which five have mothers: Rapunzel, Moana, Merida, Tiana, and Mulan. (edit: and Aurora, so six total)
McN You forgot Aurora, her mother is still very much alive. They’ve written countless children’s books about Princess Aurora’s life after being woken up by Prince Philip, where her mother is included in the storyline. Six official Disney princesses still have their mothers.
The Swan Princess was my all time favourite movie growing up. Pretty sure it was my first introduction to Enemies to Lovers - before I even knew that was a thing!
I don't know - maybe it's because I watched it as a kid but I always figured Odette loved Derek. The "Is beauty all that matters?" line is - to this day - one of my favourite lines of anything ever. She may have had some doubts, but I don't think she wanted to write him off completely.
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I know that the time gap between scenes is short for us, but I feel like she was missing a lot longer than they indicated? "Every night you ask me the same question, and every night I give you the same answer". She describes Jean-Bob and Speed as her best friends - again, watching it as a kid maybe I'm wrong, but I took it as "You can be a total badass but, if things get too tough or bleak, your loved ones will be there to help you", which for her - because she was usually excluded as a kid - was probably pretty amazing!
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If I remember right, Derek did feel that something was off with the imposter. Here's the thing, he's searched for Odette for however long, he tries to form the words to express how he feels but has never been able to.. I just think it was part of his character arc. I don't think it would be believable for him to be able to tell - as amazing a story that would be, he was so focussed on trying to save Odette he was never shown to work on that.. I think a lot of people have trouble expressing themselves so I find it more believable that once he was confronted with her death, he realised he'd never get a chance to tell her what he should have told her in the first place. I don't think the lesson we're learning here is from Odette, I think it's from Derek - Don't be afraid to tell the people you love how you feel.
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Odette taught me you can be kind and loving while standing up for, and staying true to, yourself.
Derek taught me not to "judge a book by it's cover", not everything is as it seems and to never give up.
Jean-Bob taught me that you can be scared and still do the thing anyway. You shouldn't give up on your dreams and, in the end, half of achieving is simply believing. Speed taught me everyone has their own talents, even if you don't see them right away and to be happy in your own skin.
Rothbart told me there are bad people in the world. Puffin taught me there are some good ones too. Bridget taught me there are two sides to people and that anyone has the ability to change.
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I could go on but I've already done an essay. This movie is not without its faults but ultimately I think a lot of it stands today and it sent a different message to the Disney movies I watched (and did enjoy) growing up.
I was badly bullied by boys as a preteen and was told it was “because they fancied me” by adults around me. I knew my bullies were trying to hurt me so I learnt that being desired was extremely dangerous. As a result feeling desired often puts me in full on flight, fight or freeze mode. I still struggle with this despite being happily married to a lovely man.
Aww, I'm so sorry you experienced that from the "bad boys". Society has come a long way in understanding gender relations, both platonic and romantic, but as a male myself, I really want to be a good example of what a man should be if he wants to be a good person and not indulge in unrealistic stereotypes and behaviors.
Too bad Odette’s personality didn’t carry over from the opening. It totally would’ve made her more interesting then just being “nice and pretty”
I agree with that, but I don’t blame her for being less active. I mean, her dad died and she was most likely sad and depressed. But also, she was pretty active and cunning as a swan
I think its just a misinterpretation. She became more mature and responsible, so of course she wont be as violant as a careless child. And what's with this anyway? You cant be a precious, interesting person without being a tomboy? Just because one acts gracefully it means they are weak and boring?
No susie, think for a second. What personality attribute can you give to odette that is synonymous with genetic protagonist traits after she becomes adult.
@@schwester6523 She's a pretty boring adult for me. Every good trait in her childhood like being mischevious, smart and brash were all gone. She's just nice for the sake of nice, which is a actually a pretty common trait, given that now she's the traditional woman. She seemed to have more confidence when she was in her teens, like in the way she held herself, from poise to holding her chin up (the way she sat on that chair reading? Like a QUEEN). But nope, she grew as tastleless aa water.
@@slendertale7358 we have so many Tom boy figures, why can’t we have more kind and feminine figures smh
Ok so for people struggling to understand why Odette seems to completely change on how she feels about Derek when she's captured let me break it down so you understand why she did that: when Odette leaves Derek she does find some of Derek's traits annoying e.g: immaturity, unable to express his feelings, but she does care about him and is hoping he'll one day mature and be able to say how he feels and not come across as a shallow prick but she is patient and willing to play the long game by playing hard to get in order to get him to one day be the man she wants him to be and she knows that person is inside him and just needs the motivation to come out hence her making him work harder to win her affections, so she's only playing hard to get when he's around so later in the scene when she's talking about how she loves him it's because she really does the problem was never that she didn't care about him, over the course of their lives she grew to love him despite their back and forth fighting, the problem was she needed to know if he does love her and wants to be with her it's for the right reasons, plus now the situation is more dire she's under a curse and in need of rescuing by someone who loves her and she knows Derek does so he's her only hope to break the spell, not only that but her Father just died so she needs comforting and Uberta and Derek are probably the only people apart from him who felt like Family and would understand as they knew her Father.
No it's just bad writing. The movie made it clear these kids wanted nothing to do with each other. They only changed their tune when they saw each other that last time cause they found that person sexually attractive and for the first time they actually thought hey maybe this could work. Then the writing took a left turn and the movie washed away all of Odette's personality and now suddenly she loves him. BAD WRITING
Just because you don't understand what it's like to grow to love someone who you hated when you were younger and how it feels to both love and hate someone and have an inner conflict about it doesn't make it bad writing
I actually was thinking that while watching the video,I thought that it was just me trying to defense the movie that was part of my childhood but thank you for making me see that it I was not the only one that saw that in the meaning of the story.🦢👸
Rose Pilling yeah, this doesn’t make sense as there was nothing for Olette to love about Derek either. When did she fall in love with him and why. What did she see in Derek that made her wish he would change, and why. In the end, Olette had zero reason to love Derek as well and that’s what makes her disappoint see. Out of place when they both only started singing about love when they seen each other and nothing else
Rose Pilling there’s nothing about this movie that shows this
To be fair he does (at least in the danish version) mention at the ball that Odette seems off 🤔 brushing that sort of thing off is relatively normal at bigger events in real life, so I give him credit for it still - I do see your point though🤷
He also does in the English version - she then pulls out the necklace and it reassures him. I actually give the writers credit in this moment because it's such a subtle moment to show he's grown passed just being an awe of her beauty/outward appearance.
@@ashleywilmore6038 hear hear!
I wish she ran from the lake and met another prince who firstly took her home cuz she's a pretty swan but then learns about the curse and they befriend each other
Why not? I couldn't agree more she's better off with someone who isn't Derek. Her new prince boyfriend /future husband true love be better than that lame lousy Derek,
It be like, yay! Odette finally has her fairy tale romantic happy ending she deserved! And I can happily dream of it.🙂
@@julieshez387 Maybe a Wife for Odette would be great!
@@hkgc2135 I mean, sure. Anyone but Derek.
I agree with your video. There's a lot going on with this movie.
Women are taught to be "passive" and wait for the "aggressive" man to ask them out. Women usually say they want communication, but they're the ones not communicating what they want because they are worried about what other people will think of them. Or they're worried about getting rejected, but you're not going anywhere if you don't take a chance. The worst that can happen is they say "no." I believe both men and women should respect it when someone says "no." Also, don't settle. Odette was totally settling.
I think there are way worse things that can happen then just them saying no. They could laugh, or their friends could mock you about it, or they could say yes and then ghost you. It could also permanently damage your friendship with that person because they might feel uncomfortable if you still like them or even if you don't. It's not easy to move on even after rejection. Telling someone you like them or asking someone out is a very vulnerable and risky thing to do and it shouldn't be underplayed. This is a person you care about and so you should at least worry enough to have an idea of the answer before you ask.
settling as opposed to going with who? i haven't read the original play but from what i remember of the movie it was derek as achoice or not really anyone
I didn’t watch the Swan Princess as a kid, so here: I recently watched it and I must say, for not being Disney its really good. I seriously love when Odette tries to be nice to Derek when they first formally meet as kids, he immediately is a brat to her and she does NOT take it. She refuses to let him keep ignoring her or refusing to play with her just because she’s a girl (whom he’s betrothed to) and the part she knocked their treehouse down was so savage 😂 and she genuinely is trying to be friendly but refuses to let him keep bullying her away. So in the part they’re forced to reunite and they turn to each other, instantly they’re no longer childhood frenemies, but sense something in each other. I seriously love how when he says the dumbest thing ever on screen, she refuses the proposal to give him time to think why he loves her. I don’t think it was ever about he suddenly saw just a beautiful woman, but they’ve both known each other since forever. As eccentric and crazy Uberta is, even she can easily see how much of a complete idiot her son was. You still got to give him huge points for training his ass off when he literally saw her father die, but everyone believed she died, but he refused to give in. I think Odette actually fell in love with him too but maybe she felt he didn’t feel the same way because of how much of a brat he used to be. Plus Odette does get the map to figure out where she is, she literally couldn’t leave because she had to be on Swan Lake for the moon spell to work I believe. I really don’t think it had been that long either since Rathbart imprisoned her, considering he somewhat patiently kept asking her to marry him and he could’ve easily forced her to become his queen. Plus the girl even went out when Derek started shooting at her trying to get him to see her as a woman again, knowing how skilled of a warrior he is. I don’t get why Odette didn’t try flying out of the tower considering I thought the window was open? Or when she learned she couldn’t transform on the night of the ball, why doesn’t she alert Derek she can’t? She at least knows where his palace is. I do have to agree, when it came to Brigette being spelled as Odette, how was he not suspicious of her in a different outfit or anything? But the moment he realizes he’s been tricked, he immediately races after Odette, desperately calling to her and even begs her to forgive him for breaking her heart, completely blaming himself instead of “Rathbart tricked me” and I feel this compensates for “What else is there?” Because he is finally able to express his true feelings for her and he knows why he loves her so much. I mean he demanded someone he knew could easily kill him to resurrect her and almost died had it not been for his friend getting caught. Imo Derek and Odette actually had a more realistic and mature relationship growth than a LOT of Disney couples. They sometimes argued and had problems in the sequels (not CGI) but Because I Love Her is literally about him swallow his pride and arrogance in believing he was correct to keep Rathbart’s notes, because he loves and cares more about Odette than his pride as the one in charge.
I've loved this movie as a kid and I still love it today, despite its flaws. :)
Hewy Toonmore sane. And agree.
This movie deserves to be made into a Broadway musical
Maybe it could be just to have different version based on the movie to know more knowledge of the relationship of odette and derek
Or something.
It feels like the story was written by two different people.
I have a nostalgic soft-spot for this film and all its mistakes. Honestly, if it just had better direction and development over song numbers it could have become a good cult classic like the Dreamwork animated films or the Iron Giant, probably.
(I still like the songs though, for nostalgic reasons).
Is John Cleese always frog kings??? Isn’t he the king in shrek too?
Yes, he is. Maybe the movie company likes and wants him to be a frog like Swan Princess and Shrek 2. I'm glad he plays them.
I thought of it more as- don’t completely throw the guy out of your life just because he said something really stupid. They shared their entire childhood together, they had a history, a classic history of tongue-in-cheek teasing and rivalry. She knew him well enough to know that there was a pretty good chance he would see the error of his ways and come to realize his deeper love for her.
If you were Derek and the last time you saw Odette you had a big fight ending in her calling off the marriage wouldn't that be one of the first things you said to her upon seeing her again. "Just so you know there is so much more to you than your beauty and I'm sorry I ever thought otherwise" .
Fascinating Video, going back to this movie as an adult it was always jarring how much the brilliant characterization of the opening swiftly falls apart. I think you covered a lot of topics really well :)
I also grew up watching The Swan Princess and while it still holds a special place in my heart, as an adult I release how this movie has questionable messages. One thing I noticed that you didn't mention deals with the narrative and song This is My Idea. There are two things that bug me about it, even though it's a catchy song, is that they meet every summer, they practically hate each other, but one summer they just release that the other is attractive and they forget the years of dislike between each other. Also, the final lyrics of the song also rub me the wrong way, "this is my idea of love" Yeah love that starts with two people absolutely hating each other, pressured to marry, and just out of the blue decide to marry. That's not love. In the part of the video where you talk about how movie tropes about how guys who are mean to girls actually like them, my mom actually told me that when I was like eight. Some boys at my church were always picking on me (and I'd attempt to beat them up with my shoes) and I guess I told my mom and she said they were doing it because they liked me. When she told me that, I went straight over to where the boys were and asked them if it was true. I don't think they answered, they look pretty confused and I remember feeling embarrassed afterward. Looking back, that was absolutely terrible advice. No wonder people stay in bad abusive relationships because media shows us that treating each other badly is a way to show we love them. My mom is an amazing person and does her best to look out for me, I still don't understand why she said that to me. I'm sure if I bring it up, she'll probably release how bad the advice was.
This is seriously my favorite movie. I can watch it over and over and over again no problem.
I was too impressed with Odette's character to really care about what Derek did or thought. What was that clip with Hugh Jackman? And Roger's comedy is seriously underrated, "You should write a book... 'How to Offend Women in 5 Syllables or Less!'
The Hugh Jackman clip is from a production of Oklahoma! in 1999 - it's a stage show, but they kind of re-did it for film. I really enjoyed it.
Now you mentioned, Rogers is my favorite and he does much better in being the comic relief than the fathers of Aurora and Phillip in Sleeping Beauty
Finally sat down to watch this, and yeah, the cultural idea of “if she’s interested she’ll act disinterested” was not good. In middle school, there was this complete ass of a person who was more concerned with protecting his ego than not hurting my feeling. And it took him years to finally hear my “No” and it was when I was about a heartbeat from beating him to a pulp. In a classroom. With a rule that any fighting (read; bullying)would get everyone involved (read; the victim and the perpetrators) suspended. And I was known as the schools teachers pet who wouldn’t break a rule. It was baaaaad.
Thanks for the video
WELL DEREK DID TELL HER THAT SHE SEEMED DIFFERENT
True! It's been a year since he's seen her. For all he knows, she changed during her absence.
@@haileyrobinson2339 she literally just had a different outfit tho
@@Ivanchy91 Nah he obviously meant the way she carried herself.
Yeah, I mean...going missing and losing her father might have accounted for the changed style and demeanor.
Thank any God that someone is willing to make a video about the Swan Princess
To be honest when Odette sings about her perfect prince, she doesn’t necessarily mean Derek does she? Her song can just be interpreted as faith in destiny.
That's kind of one of the points of the movie. Dereks character grows to understand what love really is and that he doesn't love her for just her looks.
I recommend this anime called Ranma 1/2, it came before the swan prince and has a similar but VERY different story one big difference is instead of recognizing the love interest only for her looks, he calls her uncute and even knew an imposter when he saw it even though she was acting like a better version, also the main character, Ranma, is cursed to turn into a girl whenever splashed with cold water and goes back to a boy with hot water, it’s a really cute and funny show and I definitely liked it more than this movie even though this movie was my childhood
That awkward moment where you show Princess Aurora in a line up of magical princesses who aren’t supposed to have mothers but she did, in fact, have a mother and a father the whole movie.
I know for sure, but I think both of her parents aren’t developed or memorable as they both have old sounding voices.
i literally have never even thought about these movies for years and you just brought all the memories back!!
Yeah this totally kicks ass. Thanks for this video and keep it up!
I like the way you addressed how romance usually begins as antagonistic in the stories from our childhood. I believe the ubiquitous appearance of that trope did “teach me” incorrectly how to pursue relationships in high school. It’s hard enough trying to figure out how to talk to girls without bad examples from my role models (looking at you Solo & Jones ... in real life that behavior means you’re a jerk). Add to this the “flirty meanness” confusion and it’s no wonder I couldn’t get a date.
I’m glad modern movies tend to get away from that trope.
Children do tend to lash out at each other when they don’t get the attention they want from someone. One girl would run across the playground and kick me in the shin to get my attention in first grade. Mom’s advice was to tell her I didn’t like it and ask if she wanted to play tag - we became best friends. I also recall one girl in third grade who kept knocking me down on the playground, but she just didn’t like me. I called her some highly inappropriate names and we were mortal enemies. A few years later we were friends in orchestra together though I can’t recall a specific transition... we just stopped being children.
There’s a learning curve to forming relationships and I feel that society often judges youthful men and women with a condescending “you should know better” attitude without really providing examples for what teenage people should know. (I’m writing about normal interaction here, not referring to the very clear legal boundaries when we should all know No means No).
The swan princess has them antagonizing each other at the start.
I give the swan princess a pass on this antagonistic romance trope, since they were young kids during the antagonist period. Again I definitely recall some crummy things my childhood playmates (boys & girls) and I did to each other as kids that I hated them for back then, but we completely forgave each other as adults bc we’d outgrown that stage.
In swan princess, the mature adults have the new learning curve. At the ball, at the beginning of Act 2, our Prince doesn’t know how to fully relate to her. Our Princess doesn’t know how to express her emotional needs (and throwing a tomato ain’t gonna work in this setting).
The prince is judged harshly by everyone for his error but can they blame him? He’s had no other interactions with women since childhood to learn what’s important to women, how not to be shallow, and so forth. So yeah... home schooling the prince may have caused isolation and created difficulties building relationships.
I think it’s crucial to the point of the story that the prince hadn’t fully learned “what else is there?” when he kissed the imposter princess.
He was fooled by the “importance” of beauty on the outside and thought he was doing the right thing. That error bookends his fumble at the start of act 2. And his 3rd act lines to “dead” princess (while not Shakespeare) are his pledge to be a better man and a better friend, because he is telling the princess all of the other things he loves about her inner beauty.
So yeah, it’s supposed to make up for it bc relationships have a learning curve. A good relationship (worth staying in) is one that’s moving up that learning curve. And that should be a lesson to take away from Swan Princess too.
PS- did you notice how I can’t remember the character names? I drew a blank while typing this and just ran with it. Lol
What TSP taught us: How to offend a woman in 5 syllable or less
I’m a Mormon and this was the only movie we were allowed to watch on Sundays other than the animated Book of Mormon because they were the same company.
lmao that's messed up man
@@SueMeriah Not really?
@@bannahannana9403 kinda is though. You missed out on some amazing Disney films.
@@bannahannana9403 no not from your standpoint, you're indoctrinated and forced into all that. I hope you've fought and gained your freedom to watch whatever the fuck you want now :D
A. L. Sue Meriah On Sundays. I wasn’t allowed to watch anything else on Sundays. We have basically every Disney movie on DVD and I watched every single one. My favorite Disney princess is Cinderella. I was not indoctrinated, I was keeping the sabbath day holy and I have plenty of freedom to watch whatever I want.
Ironically if they stayed closer to the original a lot off problems could have been solved. Darak or seigfried was against an arranged marriage because he wanted to marry for love. When he discovers oddettes curse he bracks his bow in shame, cause he was a hunter, and he actively tries to win her over and break her curse.
He does make a mistake with odile but he goes and earnestly apologizes. He decides to die to atone and to be with her romeo and Juliet style.
Sleeping Beauty has a mother that is very much alive 🤷♀️
Soooo....I disagree with you on their relationship. I don’t think that Odette asking for Derek to see more than just her beauty and him falling short in that moment would have been the absolute end of their relationship. Odette fell in love with Derek, just like he fell for her, but she also wanted to be certain that she was going to be taken seriously as an equal partner in the relationship, not just by Derek but by both of the kingdoms as well. She knew that she had more to give her kingdom than just a king to rule them, and more to give his kingdom than the prospect of an heir.
Derek goofed, yes. If he wanted her to say yes at that ball, he should have been able to list more reasons to marry her than just her beauty. Men make mistakes; some massive, like Rothbart kidnapping Odette to force her into marrying him, some minor, like Derek having a brain fart at an important time in his life. One can never be forgiven, the other is something the person can learn to get over.
In short, Odette being “certain her prince would come” is her holding out hope that Derek truly loves her for more than just her beauty. We saw from their childhood that Odette is opinionated and strong enough to flat out refuse to marry Derek, if she hadn’t loved Derek, she wouldn’t have given him a chance to reveal that he sees her for who she is and not for how she looks. He was and is her first crush/love, and while her head may say no, she couldn’t change her heart over one stupid mistake.
Gotta say, that bit about "My father's kingdom" never seemed strange to me. She went missing on the same night that her father died, there was never any opportunity for the kingdom to officially be handed to her/for her to be crowned queen, and on top of that, everyone thought she was dead anyway.
Ive watched this video multiple times and I can never get over how much sense you make. I honestly love it. ☺
How could such a spunky little tomboy of a princess turn into such a docile, passive young adult, when she spent a significant fraction of her late adolescence as a _swan?_
Fantastic essay! And now off I go to watch some of your other videos!
Really fantastic video! I'm glad to have subscribed and I hope your good work continues to accrue attention!
The best music in an animated film, EVER. I literally just listen to the soundtrack over and over, even at 28.
This was super. You got a subscriber for sure. As a kid I loved the intro like 10 minute song.
This one I wouldn't mind it getting the live action treatment. It was good but had a lot of missed opportunities that could be fixed and updated.
This movie was my ultimate guilty pleasure. I cringed again and again throughout the movie, but I kept watching it over and over again too. It looks pretty and the songs are damn catchy, defintitely. I think I would have really enjoyed a movie about only them growing up and eventually finding each other through actual character growth.
This is so well-written and you make such consistently great points!
This is just sheer brilliance, bravo!
It always annoys me because i love characters that start off antagonistic, become friends over common ground- and then catch feels. But thats near unheard of compared to this trope
The "boys are mean to you if they like you" things definitely had an impact on me growing up. Mostly because it's also had an impact on my parents.
Growing up, my mum had a best friend who had a son and we were frequently set up on play dates, had sleepovers etc....
But we hated each other. We fought constantly. Not just bickering either. We frequently came to blows.
There's even a home video of me, at my aunt's wedding reception, in my pretty and expensive bridesmaid dress, getting brutally tackled to the ground by this boy and me hitting him with one of my shoes.
Everyone reacts to that video the same way "aww, aren't they cute??"
I vividly remember one sleepover, I was talking to him and we were both convinced that we'd have to get married one day. We didn't even question it.
I love how you explain things, it is so engaging, clear and precise. You brought some good points to my attention :) thank you
So youtube recommended your video to me, and I'm really glad I watched! It was really interesting hearing your thoughts on The Swan Princess and what you'd learned from it. It's really interesting to revisit childhood films and see if or how they affected the way one grows up.
Great video. Subscribed
I forgave *years* of bullying and harrasment from a boy in my class *multiple times,* because I thought either that I provoked him, or that he likes me. It took me a long time to get out of that friendship, and thank god it was only a friendship.
Damn 3 min and you give this woman more love than she'll ever see from her hubby ♡
One of my favorite childhood films, thanks for this amazing video essay 😭
Oh my gosh I LOVED this movie growing up!!! I liked your analysis of this movie it was both educational and IMMENSELY entertaining.
He only cares about odette once he thinks she’s dead.
*hmmmm*
once OTHERS think she’s dead
I always took it as her loving him already but wanting him to learn to think first/ giving him a wakeup call.
Lol your speech in the beginning about how she beats the living daylights out of Derek then knocks his tree house done made me lose it, especially when you added the "With them inside it.' LOL
This is one of the best things in the TH-cam. Thank you!
Oh hey, Olly suggested your videos and oh boy he wasn't wrong! I've been binging them all! Just wanted to say hey to a fellow Central Ohioan (apologies if there's more than one Upper Arlington and I'm wrong, lol).
Anyway, it's been 25 years and I'm still so disappointed that the rest of the movie didn't live up to the amazingness of the opening number. Where are the badass Odettes of yesteryear?
This movie is one of my favorites from my childhood ^.~ I wish they'd done a TV series after the other two movies take place. I loved how savage Odette was when they were kids haha, this movie is also very special to me since my husband is named Derek and so this is now our movie, because "Far Longer Than Forever" is our song (one of them) and our saying to one another, we plan on engraving wedding bands with the phrase.
Daaaaamn! Great video!!!!! Thank you so much
As someone who saw the ballet when she was six and then this movie a year or two later, I learned that some stories are better or more powerful as tragedies and lose there meaning when a "happily ever after" narrative is tacked on. It' a bad sign when even a little girl is like "They didn't die at the end? lame." Also, they should have kept the swan maidens from the original so Odette could have some other girls to talk to...
They show odettes father at the end of the first movie, he was injured not killed.
Disney princess don’t have moms because walt Disney felt responsible for his mother’s death by gifting her a house with a gas leak in it. That’s when Disney princesses and Disney characters in general started to not have mothers because he was projecting his guilt and sorrow from his mothers death onto his Disney creations. This started with Bambi’s mothers death because that’s about the time his mother died.
The trope of motherlessness of princesses already exists in the Grimm fairy tale canon, though. If you look at folklore more generally, too, you mainly see either pure maidens or evil stepmothers/mothers-in-law. It seems like something of a stretch to put a trend in Disney-esque media entirely on Disney's personal trauma when there's such a rich history to draw from. Ideas so rarely spring whole cloth from a single person.
You sound so much like my friend, it's amazing. Your comedic timing, sarcasm, and views on how women are portrayed or seen in movies is just so eerily like hers haha
Thank you so much for your insight. Both comical entertaoning and educational you couldnt of said it better.for some reason this popped up in my news feed and so I watched it and now I'm excited to learn what rlse you got that can inspitr me on a level thats hard to find nowadays