Minikeys are the WORST THING EVER!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2016
- Are these "Slim Keys" really the evil, terrible, unusable thing that critics say they are? Well, watch and find out!
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Basically, what he's saying is:
"If you suck on big keys, you'll also suck on smaller keys"
100%
You forgot to mention the most important thing: Minikeys make the synth sound weak! Slimkeys are not as bad, but still not as good. Only real full size keys will give you that true phat analog sound ;)
Only wooden keys will do!
I often like the cold, thin sound of mini keys, they sit well in a mix.
(Lol)
I like the sound of silence desktop modules produce.
Filed under: I sure didn't expect to see Wizards and Warriors theme performed on a harpsichord today.
you're welcome!! :)
mootbooxle Keep up the good work, man!
Totally didn't expect that 😃 Cool
Never realized just what a magnificent classical player you are! You play such polyphonic beauty! Were you classically trained?
Oh! You flatter me! I'm a classical hack! I was totally self taught, but studied music theory through my school years, and studied jazz guitar in college, so I'm really a jazz guy!
Hey, that's impressive. How did you go about teaching yourself? What kind of routines did you follow? Could I tempt you into making a video about that (if you haven't already.. channel newbie here)?
Thomas Moerman hey Thomas, I'm sorry for not replying to this sooner! I just now saw it. My thing was mostly all by ear and intuition, but my mom showed me a lot of things early on, since she plays piano. I didn't get into music theory at all until I'd already been playing for 7-8 years. That was when I was 11. When I learned about how music notation works, rhythms, all that stuff, I really got into it. But always a jazz path, not a classical one.
The way I've taught piano for years is to first understand intervals, then learn how different qualities of chords are built up from intervals. This way you can play in any key and not get stuck, because even if you may not have a B7#5 under your fingers, you know how to voice it based on the intervals.
For instance, a minor triad is a minor third and a major third. Like D minor is DFA: D to F is a minor third, F to A is a major third. Now you know how to spell minor chords and no matter what root key you're in, you can make a minor chord. That's a quick example.
haha, tbh it took me waaaay too long to see through the joke. I was like "wtf is he talking about, he can play them friggin great... OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!"
I like larger keys because they feel better. I got my fanger stuck in a minikey synth a couple of times because mini keys wobble, and break. It’s like playing 50 year old twizzlers. Sometimes the larger ones can like that too, but I still prefer larger keys. Amazing playing, Moot Booxle.
No one got the sarcasm? Lol
seems noone, weirdos!! :O
exactly
Awesome playing! I've just bought an old Yamaha PSS-51 which has mini keys, and am struggling a bit. I am improving with practise though. Main issue for me is accidental key triggers as it is very easy to trigger a key by mistake. You're playing on that old Yamaha has given me the inspiration to try and get better on the mini keys
Moot, I'm seriously impressed you could play that accuratley on those mini keys. I was playing on my bandmates microkorg the other day and felt like I was tripping over my fingers haha
Excellent video. Excellent playing. However, some musicians have LARGER fingers. Mini keys are "unplayable" for some of us. It doesn't discourage me from purchasing a synth that features them.
I love your video. The PSS-470 was the first synthesizer I owned. It's amazing. The Korg Minilogue is even better. I love taking these synthesizer out and about. They are much easier to carry than the Fantom G8, Jupiter 80, and Jupiter 8. That's a convenient feature to the slim and mini keys. Great video. Take care, Sam.
Machiwoomiapoo Hey Sam! That's awesome! The PSS-470 has been with me since I was 6 years old! Such a nice little machine. I recently got a PSS-480 and 570 to go with it! And cheers on the Minilogue...it's astounding how much power is packed into that tiny little synth!
Yes, the minilogue is great! :) Keep rockin! :) Sam.
so good dude
Depends on what size your hands are and how adaptable you are to key scale. As a large man I don't play minikeys, but I love having a synth with any size keys because it is convenient to program with keys right in front of you. But I don't play slim/mini/whatever keys because I can't....but no problem, all these keyboards have 5pinMIDI so I control them from a full sized keyboard.
Great Video! I thought it was a negative video at first lol, and nice wizard and warriors cover on the harpsichord.
Great Video Moot! I personally don't like slim keys/mini keys, but you make a great point. Love your stuff:)
Nobody ever heard of a midi controller? Not buying an awesome synth like the Minilogue solely because of slimkeys is just dumb.
Also, the Wizards and Warriors bit was lovely.
I agree!! And you know Korg was addressing that when they made the desktop module version of the Odyssey!
love the video... I had the PSS-470. Good one. good enough to start going on EBay to get the 680, 460, and the 380 (two of them for MIDI)
Thank you for this video man! I was a little hesitant to get a minilogue xd because of people on the internet complaining about “mini keys” but it’s in the cart now!
Love your videos moot. I have the new Arp Odyssey and minilogue also and have no problem with the keys. The original Arp Odyssey had full size keys and they stuck out beyond the body of the keyboard so often times they got busted. If it helps Korg keep putting out new versions of these classic synths and makes them affordable then I'm all for it. I heard Korg is working on an Arp 2600 reissue also. Bring it on, mini keys, slim keys whatever.
Thanks for this video! My thoughts exactly! :) Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much for watching!
Brilliant video! And fantastic playing!! :)
thanks Bill!!!
Its a poor craftsman that blames his tools..... a voice rings in my head still to this day those words.... if you close your mind to something you'll never move forward....so,yea i love my cz101,never midi it to a std keybed either,man those small keys were such a hindering thing that i bought a jp8/k25 mini combo too.... lol...idk i can play them fine and i have "hotdogs" for fingers
R Dm did you watch the video?
Thank You very much for that very very informative video about a rare dicussed topic.Of cause I like your modern jazz and classic music solistic presentation too very much. Besides that, please a question: At time span of 1:35 - 2:07 in this video (You are playing on a minilogue) , there is a brillant soundig acoustic piano. I think about buying a minilogue (m. xd) - is such a sound among the presets or is it available to upload in that synthesizer? Thanks for infos ....
How old is your Harpsichord? Where was it made? Sounds gorgeous Moot.
Nice video BTW.
stillphil hey! thank you! My harpsichord is a Sassmann spinet (but not kleinspinett) made in Germany in the mid 70s.
I had a MicroKorg & a MiniNova. I sold them both because I just could not get used to the little keys. I passed on the Minilogue because of the keys. I guess some people can work with them but I never could get used to them. Especially when switching between the smaller keys & a board with standard keys. To each his own I guess.
I actually loved how the Reface keys felt, even though they were pretty damn small.
The only keybed I've had issues with was the Behringer Deepmind 12, because the keys were so close together, and so unweighted... And had sort of more squared corners, that it would make me constantly press two neighboring keys by accident.
(But even that you get used to over time and adapt)
Remember watching this way back and didn't even realize it was you haha :D good one!
haha cheers Leo!
I just discovered this channel and am totally in for the funky synth action and demos, but man... that harpsichord is some dope shit.
Hey Moot love your content.I want to ask you something, Its 2021 and im saving up to get a Korg Arp Odyssey.Im not a pro neither a decent keyboard player but i enjoy playing a lot.Do you recommend the version with the keybed or the module version? Hope you read this someday! greetings from Argentina.
Does anyone know if there are any good analog synths w/ plethora of knobs, where all or most of the knobs and KB can both pull double duty as midi controller? I thought about getting the Arturia minilab for that duty, but only have room for one more keyboard and have been wanting to get a nice hardware synth that can also control my iPad & PC synths (Model 15, etc) ...
Wait when did you get rid of the é???
whenever it's convenient. :) The é is still proper. Just like the umlaut is really proper for Bjork. :)
if anything, korg's slim keys make it EASIER to play solos, as your hand can glide around the length of the keybed much faster
Nice spinet ! what's the kind of registration black button on the front above the keys used for ?
Benoit Laine thanks!! That's just a simple buff stop.
AWESOME. I especially love the fact that you manage to play them like Jordan Rudess and still not break a sweat. This ought to really shut people up!
as a fan of the microKORG... its keys break TOO EASILY and repair is so expensive for such cheap plastic pieces...
the problem is not the size, it's the design itself that's not compatible with long term fun.
by the way thanks for this video, it's on point and always funny to watch it now and then.
Hey thanks my friend for the comment! I feel like the microkorg uses a completely different keybed than the “slim keys” found on MS-20m, Odyssey, and Minilogue. The microkorg keys are a lot like the ones on the old Yamaha PSS I play in this video.
I’ve played bass for 3+ hours a night on my Odyssey for 5-6 years and only broke one key!
BTW you are an amazing player, love all of your videos man. Keep rocking!
Well, looking at your playing, I think you'd do fine on a kids toy piano with 2" keys also.
But for a beginner like me, is there a problem with learning on mini keys? Will I regret it later when I sit at a full size keyboard?
I think you could play anything regardless of key size but what do you think about key size for beginners? Harder to hit? Easier to stretch?
Pete Horam thanks Pete! I think smaller keys are just fine for a kid starting out, but for an adult I would recommend full sized keys. It's easy to develop bad habits on smaller keys!
Man apart form the fact that you didn`t cure me. I still wish for my minilogue keys to grow in the future. How long have you being playing piano? though i seen you play drums too but how long piano?
Awesome video! Also, what's the song being played on the harpsichord at 2:52?
Chester Wigzell thanks Chester! That's the main theme from the NES game "Wizards and Warriors" composed by David Wise.
mootbooxle thanks for replying so quickly! I love your channel, especially your minimoog review as I am too poor to afford one xD
My wife had a Geo Metro decades ago. I could drive it just fine, but I didn't like to. I had to hunch over and practically sit in the back seat. These days, she doesn't like to drive my truck because it's too big, but I appreciate not smacking my head on the door when I get in.
I can play on mini keys and slim keys (I have a minilogue, and I started on that same PSS in the 80s), but I don't enjoy it as much as a nice semi-weighted synth keyboard. We all have preferences. I don't like full piano action keyboards, but I've seen people shred on them.
Good video. :)
I completely understand and completely agree with you! This was just an over-the-top way of proving a point. But yes, for most things, I'd like a regular keybed! But I actually love my Odyssey especially for those smaller keys. I play bass on it in my band. It's great! And it's cool that you started on a PSS as well :)
Thats wierd, I too started with the PSS-460. Still have that running. Thanks moot for this video, I was planning on getting some yamaha refaces (dx n cp - bcoz they sound gr8) for gigging & was in double mind whether I'd be comfortable using the mini keys for soloing. Pete, same here I too dont like the hammer action keybeds. I very much prefer the semi-weighted synth action.
Couldn't have made your point in a more entertaining way!
Real Personal question: you would prefer bigger keys but fewer or more and mini if you could design your custom synth?
I finally found this video. At last, a professional little keys fan. At first I thought you really wanted to shoot them... until you started playing. :)
When your an alien player like moot (we called em monster players back in the day), you can shred on just about anything (Jordan Rudess on iPad for example) but a lot of us earth players, you know the ones who took a couple years of classical piano as kids, played some of the Bach Inventions, a couple Chopin waltzes and maybe an etude, learned some basic jazz chord voicings, slowed our Chic Corea and Jan Hammer cassette tapes to half speed so we could learn a few of their solos, bought the ELP and Yes transcription books to learn a couple Emerson and Wakeman songs, then passed puberty and in our 20's maybe played 80's covers in a few local nightclubs for a few years while breaking our backs moving around B3's on Hammond dollies, Fender Rhodes, Elka String machines, and Minimoogs, to only end up realizing how earthly and mediocre players we were and that we needed regular day jobs if we were ever to be able to move out of Moms house and raise families, well ..... alot of us actually do have a hard time with Korgs slim keys and Yamaha's mini keys as the earth laden kings of mediocrity we are 🙄 Moot has a unique and special gift from God, and a bright future ahead as a player. (and yes I caught the humor within 5 seconds lol) 😁
Chris Strobel That's very kind of you, Chris! Thanks for sharing that. I was definitely exaggerating things for effect in this video! I understand that a lot of people just don't like smaller-than-normal keys. I will say that there are very few cases in which I prefer the smaller keys. I love my Odyssey's key size - it allows me to do superhuman things with my left hand playing bass in my trio. Huge spans and double stops and things like that. The harpsichord is another one that seems to benefit from smaller keys. It's certainly good practice! Most unforgiving instrument ever. The rest of the time I do prefer normal sized keyboards! :)
One of my sons is classically trained pianist and he is a snob about the slim keys as well even though some things he can't play on normal size keys because his hands won't stretch that far so on slim keys he would have the advantage. I suppose classically trained pianists have been influenced by their teachers into thinking that slim and mini keys are inferior instead of looking for how they might benefit from playing them. Thanks for doing this video. I am going to show my son and leave it right there :D
Is that a Korg Krome that’s under the arp and minilouge at the end of your video you used at your last gig?
The Wizards & Warriors theme song was amazing on your harpsichord!!
Great video. What is the thing you are playing at 1:13?
can anyone comment on how korg minologue's slim keys compare to the yamaha reface keys? thanks so much
I get the distinction. And yes, they're all playable (I have the Yamaha Reface CP with real mini-keys) but, really, would it be too much to ask for at least 4 (or better yet 5) octaves on those new mini-keys keyboards (like on your vintage PSS-470)?
You hit on my real complaint Alain- it's not about the size of the keys, but the number! 49 keys would have made all the difference on the Minilogue.
There's a good reason why pretty much all manuals have been full sized for centuries. Slim keys are intolerable for me, given the fact that I have properly large hands. My fingers can literally get stuck between white keys, regardless of my skill level and can often trigger more than one note because of the mechanics. So...I got a Minilogue XD module and a full sized keyboard. Perfect.
Good for you. My chubby fingers don’t do well with mini keys. Slim keys are doable, but I’d rather have full sized keys. Also bad quality keys are a let down. Every time I got a good sound out of System-1 trying to play anything ruined the climax!
You're the best man! So funny and on point.
What's Chick Corea's Yamaha KX5, please? Slim or mini?
Up until recently, I had a choice of the MS-20 or the Volca keybed when I wanted to do synth things. I never got the complaining. Then I got a Prophet '08. The moment I laid my hands back on my MS-20, I immediately... kind of saw it? I mean, it only took, like, a day to get used to it again, but I guess it was kind of annoying having to adjust back and forth.
It's all about what you get used to!
Dude I feel your pain, but boy can you play those keys👍😃
I wouldn't trade my Odyssey for a full-sized key version!
Problem is people confuse mini keys with slim keys!! But the minilogue is selling like hotcakes!!!
I appreciate your SARCASM here!!!
thanks pal! And you're right!
Great video. Got a Minilogue XD module regardless.
2:52 What a riff ! Much Stratovarius ! 😍
Alphacitrick thank you! that’s the theme to the Nintendo game “Wizards and Warriors”!
DUDE HAS A FREAKING HARPSICORD? Can I have a go? You'd just need to bring it to Australia...
you have tons of talent my friend!
excellent and very funny vid! thanks, man!
Completely agree - I had an MS-20m for a while and found it's slim keys perfect for playing fast things. That said, I've tried the Yamaha mini keys on gear in music stores and found them a little pokey - but I guess it's more a matter of getting used to them. I know it's silly, but I think the main problem I have with the smaller keys is a subconscious thing, the instrument doesn't seem as substantial, regardless of how good it sounds or how perfectly playable it actually is.
you nailed it! The slim keys are certainly a lot more playable just due to their length compared to the little mini keys.
I love the keys on the Odyssey! I can play all over the place. Can't get around like that on a full size keyboard.(of course I play a lot of melodica)
I liken it to playing both bass and mandolin. Finger movements are the same there's just more/less stretch depending.
Yes! I almost busted out the melodica for this video! You're right on the money!
Yeah! I think I got your point. That said, I wonder why have analogue synth manufacturers seem to have forgotten about real keyboard players, since most of their new products are targeted at DJ's and programmers with very little (or no) keyboard playing abilities.
barrabasi I think you answered your own question! The major synth manufacturers are mostly aiming their analogue (or analogue-style) products at the biggest market segment that buys them, which are the people you mentioned. They seem to aim the big workstations and stage pianos at more traditional people like me who use their 10 appendages at the end of their arms for something other than pushing buttons. Those who like to do both are often forgotten about, except by those like Dave Smith, thank goodness he still makes real synthesizers. And Arturia finally made a big fancy analogue synth for players (although I'm sure there are many who will buy it just for the matrix sequencer and CV capabilities). Things run in cycles. Maybe one day being a musician in the classic sense will be cool again!
Hey! Thx for answering! ...and yet, the Prophet 6 is only 49 keys! I mean, it is a polyphonic synthesiser, for Christ sake!!!
I have no problem with slim keys themselves, only having the shrunken option be the only option. Korg got it right by offering the MS-20 full-sized kit in limited production alongside the readily-available mini version. The minilogue was not a mini version of anything before. Just waiting for the tabletop Odyssey (saving yet more space), or the rumored full-size reissue.
one thing I can tell you about the tabletop Odyssey is that it's built like a tank! Actually, comparing its sliders to the keyboard version, they are incredibly stiff feeling! But it has a definite feeling of high quality. It's tempting to get one!
Moot, I was already listening, you didn't have to bust out the Wizards and Warriors to get my attention. I do appreciate it, though.
you're quite welcome! :)
Just thankful we have so many options!!!
mooty, what's the miuic at 1:35 ? Emerson?
_ moogMaster53 _ it does kinda have a bit of an Emerson thing to it, huh! It's just something I improvised on the spot!
As long as the keybed plays well and has a good response it's all good in my book.
Lets get our concepts in line: "Mini keys" doesn't refer to a specific size or type of keys. Rather any keybed with noticeably smaller keys than the accepted "full size" are mini keys. "Slim keys" is just Korg trying to rebrand their way out of the fact that they _are_ mini keys, and the negative associations incurred.
True they are larger, and nicer, than the mini keys you find on say the original MicroKorg, but it doesn't change the fact that they _are_ mini keys.
Beyond that, for me it's a toss-up between full size usually (not always) feeling better to play, and the smaller size being easier to fit in the studio and take with me places. Each has its clear merits, and as long as the quality is there, I'm not terribly bothered.
On the other hand, I can understand the people who have an ingrained feel for full size keys, aren't happy to try to adjust to mini keys.
I know a guy whose fingers are so wide, he literally can't play anything smaller than full size keys. And no, he's not some 300kg landmonster.
Point being that "unplayable" can be a very subjective thing, so some of the people being negative about mini keys have a point, and some are just being difficult.
Your position is certainly valid, and more over a necessary counterpoint to all the negativity. But at the same time, your long experience with, and feel for, mini keys makes it much easier for you than for many (most?) others, and as such you're biased in your own way.
Thumbs up for that, and your awesome chops ;-)
Thanks for your video !
Mini keys, lack of keys, lack of voices.. blah. Yes I can play on them, I learned on a Casio VL-1 the smallest keys ever, but life is easier and more enjoyable for me with 61 and at least 6 voices... and I prefer the easy, more comfy route. For those who LOVE the whole mini, slim, lack of keys and voices, there are plenty of keyboards out there for them for sure! Great playing as always..
more is always better!! haha! Thanks for watching!
Always... LOL
Please, "now" that you mention, how do you like the Refaces? :-)
that harpsichord part was jizztastic
I prefer full size keys.
Small keys / slim keys are similar to a pair of shoes you bough 1 size smaller, you can still wear it, for a short time, but afterward you will feel very happy to change for the more "standard" (bigger) size. Everybody has his own point of view on this matter. Moreover, the quality of the keyboard itself is the main point. Many small / narrow keybards are shitty. I feel the keyboard of the Odyssey mini is easy re-triggering the note if you don't play it well (I am a poor keyboard player by the way), I don't have such issue with the Sub Phatty, just for example. Anyway, we just can say : Moot Booxlé is "mini slim keyboard proof". :)
And now try rubber keys like on the Yamaha QYs. ;)
JayB hahaha, just for fun I'll dig out my QY20 sometime and shred on it ;)
I see some people are now cutting the keyboards off their Minilogues and just using them as tone boxes. My thoughts regarding mini/slimkeys are that I think an accomplished player, like yourself, would have the dexterity to play fluidly on them. But most people who buy synths don't really know how to play them very well if at all, so they benefit from having a larger target. Great video, BTW. Good perspective with the harpsichord.
Loved the harpsichord!
Frank Taylor thanks Frank!
damn man you got some sexy chords in there aaaaaaaaaah great work
i didnt know Noah from alaskan bush people could play! j/k excellent player and raises a good point.
hahaha!! Geez. I did look a mess in this video, huh? Thank you for watching!
I measured the spacing between the black keys of mini keys (microkorg), slim keys (Korg MS-20m) and normal keys (Roland Juno 60). Spacing mini keys = 15mm, spacing slim keys = 17mm and spacing normal keys = 17mm. No much difference at all actuaIy. I have quite large hands and have no problems on any keyboard.
You nailed it Mat !
thank you Yves! :)
For people like me who play piano, its annoying going from a full-size keybed to a synth that has mini keys. All of your chord shapes don’t transfer and you start hitting sour notes. Performing reliably is out of the question. And a mini key keytar? Whats the point??
Ah! You got me! I had to check out your new video and see if you were really going to rant about minikeys! That just didn't seem like you, Moot. Glad to know you were just jankin the minikey-haters.
haha, excellent!! I love satire.
Nice video! Iconoclast idea!
I'm just a hobbyist, so I take what I can get for a few bucks :-)
It's hard to put an 88 key hammer graded controller into a backpack. I sometimes wish my Akai mini had slightly bigger keys, but then it wouldn't pack easily, and as it is, it's probably just about my most used piece of gear BECAUSE it's easy to take along.
Back in the late 80s in college, I picked up a DX100. One of the other guys in the dorm could play "Flight of the Bumblebee" on it, which was pretty amazing. 30 years later, I'm still trying to learn to play keys here and there. It's not the key size holding me back. (also have a few full size kb's now, FWIW)
Roboprogs you make a very good point that I didn’t really address: small keys are unbeatable when it comes to portability! I just played a bunch of gigs with my Minilogue! Synths and controllers that are small enough to be carry-on luggage are great!
btw I can’t play Flight of the Bumblebee OR Chopsticks on my DX100...all the keys are broken! lol
Easy for you, since you grew up playing mini keys. So, your fingers remained hobbit-sized. ; )
I have korg microkey midi keyboard, size is 100% OK for me but i don't like how they feel
yeah, the feel of those is not too good! But the Slim Keys are great!
2:03 is really nice, man
I personally don't like the touch of minikeys, but the new slim keys are actually really nice to play on despite the size.
I don't love them but they are a bit of a space saver. Not to mention I have pretty small hands so on a poly it would be nice to cover more ground, on a mono it doesn't matter so much. For whatever reason they seem smaller on the MS20 m compared to the Odyssey though they are the same size. I do however want a 2600 at 86% the size of the original .. that would be great.
Brilliant! My sentiments exactly. Funny those guys who worship the QNexus are often the same guys who bitch about mini keys!?! I had a PSS-470 back in the day, one of my first synths. I loved the FM editor in the top right...
Wow those keys are bigger than the keys on my tiny AKM320 LOL :) Wow those are big keys!!
great video !!!!!
The PSS-470 was marketed to kids as a toy.
You're using it to make beautiful music.
That's also what Yamaha secretly intended for you to do.
Yey
I've got mini slim strings on my Stratocaster, it's like playing spiders silk.
But what if you have short fat fingers and when you press one key down, three go down? That's what happens when I play the minilogue XD. I guess there's the module.
Not to forget that synth precursors such as Ondes Martenot, Clavioline or Ondioline use such minikeys/slimkeys keyboards. Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Vangelis is a lame keyboardist, and yet he used Clavioline for leads and solo a lot before he got modern synths.
Just bought the Korg Prologue and no mini keys in sight! Just a beast off a synth. And your harp playing was awesome as i love the medieval period! I think 1397 Or some where around there, I can't quite remember. Cheer mate