I really like that you did this explicitly as a response to add the trans male perspective rather than being angry at Contrapoints for not covering it. She tries to cover so much already and seeing her dogpiled on Twitter for not representing every perspective in every little thing she says has been heartbreaking. I feel that the reach of her platform has really opened up space for other trans people to add their own perspectives so thank you for stepping up and doing that.
Totally! It's impossible for any one person to address everything that needs to be addressed in conversations about gender (or pretty much anything else) so it's much more useful to just add to what folks say rather than tear them down for leaving stuff out.
@@piperaislinn2511 i feel like not only it's impossible to cover every perspective, It's would also a counterproductive ideal. It's better to cover properly limited talking points and not overstep the limits of what you have authority over. We can't expect Contrapoints to digest all of the reading on gender for us.
I'm not sure if it's fair to paint Natalie as the Spokesperson For All Trans people since I mostly see her as the anti-fascist, anti-white supremacy lady.
Trans guy here. Personally, I think everyone involved is getting caught up in "feminine" and "masculine" as the precursor to these ideals. I think it would benefit men, women, and enbies FAR more if instead of having culturally "ideal men" and "ideal women", we just have "ideal people" that we can look up and relate to no matter our gender. Anybody can be rugged, heroic, sensitive, artistic, stoic, bubbly, or what have you, and any of those things can be good. A woman's personal ideal can be Superman, and a man's personal ideal can be Mother Theresa. Traits aren't gendered, but in viewing them as such their connotations change drastically. I know, I know... asking people to view others as a collection of traits without gender is a lot to ask for. For now, I'll stick with this: Men need to be more introspective as a whole. Your "masculine ideal" should come from the self, your personality and your interests, not from what others are telling you to idealize. We need to focus less on what makes a good man, and more on what makes a good person. A good man isn't made of carpentry skills, competitiveness, a "provider" status, and muscle; nor is the only ideal man a Superman. A "good man" worthy of aspiration is a good person who happens to be a man, nothing more and nothing less, and I think that's something a lot of young guys don't realize as they idolize not-so-great men with a certain trait they desire (which usually coincides with old-fashioned views of masculinity). Sorry if all that's jumbled and doesn't make much sense. I tend to have a hard time expressing my ideas in words. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, though! -Real talk time, Spiderman is where it's at.-
I agree with this, on an ideal level, but I don't feel - at least in my lifetime - that we will ever be able to get beyond gender. Gender is so entrenched in how we view people, we can view exactly the same traits as totally different when presented by someone of another gender. If you're a woman and try to imitate a male role model, chances are, unless you adapt it some way to the fact that you are female, most people will not like you very much, and vice versa. So I think it's useful to analyse what it means to be a "good man" and a "good woman" separately, if you want to get beyond the purely theoretical
Spiderman truly is where it's at. In Spiderman homecoming when Peter was trapped under that rubble, crying, but hyping himself up to overcome the metaphorical burden of the pressures of power as well as the actual burden of the fucking pillars of concrete, that was such a compelling overlap of vulnerability and strength.
But isn't kind of strange to idealise traits in the first place? For example being loud or shy isn't a personality fault... it's just part of who you are. It doesn't make you good or bad if you're conflict averse, or meticulous, or energetic and empathetic. Why put ourselves in boxes and try to contort ourselves to be things we're not? It's far better to just accept yourself. Personality traits can be assets or weaknesses depending on the context. When you can understand that and learn to love yourself is when we can truly grow into adults.
In my perspective, feminism worked to break women out of boxes that their gender put them in. It worked to do exactly what you're pointing out. Not an ideal woman. But just a complex and as good as can be person. And I think that maybe that should be happening for men too. Not to create a better box. But to let them know that they're just people, who can get anywhere regardless of gender
@@KatieBadenhorst It depends on what the traits are; most are neutral, but there are definitely good and bad traits. Sadism to the extent you like cutting the tails off cats, inability to admit to or learn from mistakes, greed, narcissism, dishonesty... these are all things that are harmful to other people, yourself, or (most commonly) both. You shouldn't just accept that you are one of these things and leave it at that. Adulthood isn't *just* about loving yourself. It's about understanding, recognizing, and improving yourself as well. You can accept the way you are and your worth as a human but still recognize that things need changing. As a personal example, I'm messy and always have been. I have just accepted it and dealt with it for most of my life. But I can't *just* accept it because it hinders me. I've been working on changing it, because I know I will be much happier without stuff all over the floor and with the ability to find things quickly. Being messy doesn't make me a bad or unlikable person, but it is a problem, and it does need to be improved.
Really liked this video, glad TH-cam suggested it to me! As a cis man, I liked Nat's video a lot. The experience of being masculine in a "toxic" way is a pretty consistent factor in the lives of nearly all cis men (myself included) and it's tough to really understand why and how that happens for a lot of young cis men. Nat did a good job of exploring this (disposable male, symbol of power/fear, etc.) and how the far-right exploits these. However, as her videos are very focused on being anti-far-right, she seems much better at revealing/tearing down "bad" systems than she is showing/building "good" ones and her videos often lack a positive call-to-action because of it. Your perspective is absolutely a helpful and necessary addition to this conversation. I'm very glad that you shared it! The current male experience is far too narrow and we definitely need to better see how we can build new, far more positive "boxes" for ourselves.
As the mum of a trans son I found this so heartwarming & illuminating. My son is a gentle, kind and soft soul and I would hate to lose that because he felt he had to fit in with some masculine ideal. Speaking personally as I've gone on this journey with my son I've become a bit sick of the binary gender roles, the 2 boxes everyone tries to put ppl in. Can't we throw away these unhelpful and damaging gender roles and just start valuing pplfor who they are, their uniqueness and what's in their heart. Nothing else matters to me. Loved this video. ❤❤❤
THIS is the kind of discourse I want to see about Natalie's content. Not broke takes about how she's transphobic towards non-binary people, but actual conversations about how there are gaps in her perspective on trans issues
Unless your physically transitioning your not transsexual, I'm not sure what id class none binary folk as, probably just people who either haven't the courage to transition yet or are just trying to highjack the trans narrative, some are transvestites and crossdessers who hate those terms and want to be called something else so none binary fits the bill, I've even heard the term a male lesbian recently, which shows how people want to make up daft terms just to irritate genuine transsexual folk.
Actually, a lot of non-binary people medically transition in some way, they might only take hormones or only get certain surgeries in an attempt at a more ambiguous anatomy, unlike binary trans people, who would go through transition specifically wanting to be seen as only male or female
@@nicolajohnson1887 Trans is being used here as an umbrella term for people who identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth/raised and socialized as. I don't think they're really hijacking the trans narrative, they're a part of it. Binary trans and nonbinary people do have very different experiences but they don't take away from one another. If you want to learn more about what being nonbinary means, there are lots of cool nonbinary youtubers who can tell you about themselves, such as Ash Hardell.
@@madnessends2477 I'm just not buying the folk who don't transition fully if your mtf and like having a cock your guy same with ftm if you like having a vag, I get that the surgeries are scary and expensive but that the risk you have to take, I'm sorry but transvestites and crossdessers and fantacists are not trans and are just confusing the general public and causing genuine transsexual to be put in danger, so unless you are 100% serious about fully transitioning then stick being cis.
Idk I feel like trans men need to speak for themselves rather than leaving it to contrapoints? She gets flamed pretty hard for sharing her own personal experience, this wouldn’t be a great move for her.
Same. I always felt she didn't talk enough about trans men, I left some comments about it in some of her vids i think, but guess what... she's a trans woman and she speaks from THAT perspective, and that's ok. She's said multiple times she doesn't speak for every LGBTQ+ person out there. This video (and all I've seen from NB people/ trans guys in response to Natalie's vids) is necessary. We need the perspectives and experiences of other people.
I don't think she needs to speak for trans men, but maybe a few more qualifiers every now and then where it is, "and don't forget the trans men". I have no problem with her focusing on the transwoman perspective, because that is what she is.
But she leaves them out entirely. I feel its because she's catering to a narrative though. That really hit home when he said "what are we transitioning into?"
Thank you. Not what I initially thought was coming when I saw "response video" on reddit. I'm pretty sure ContraPoints doesn't outright refuse but chooses to sidestep the trans male perspective because she knows she can't truly speak to that experience. Having someone who can and will speak on that is great; having someone who will do so without throwing too much shade on someone their responding to just for having a blind spot is invaluable for modern discourse!
"I still liked butterflies" As a cis man I can tell you people are plain lying if they say the don't. "Self-administering adrenalineAAAA" I cried from laughter this guy gets it. Edit: y'all are never gonna believe this but I guess I wasn't that cis
@@anon9359 The pfp is a character from animated web series called Interface. If you haven't please watch the web series on TH-cam, I may sound annoying but I want this series to get all the attention it deserves.
@@homosapien9526 Oh, no worries! I already knew it was Mischief, that's why I complimented it, lol. But I totally get where you're coming from, if someone were to say they liked mine, I'd hope they'd know where it's from too because it also deserves love.
I come from a feminist and non binary background. But here’s the thing gender isn’t real in the way a lot of people think it is. It isn’t a hard driving force that forces men to spread their legs on transits. It’s something given, something inherited, and something customized. I’m also Mexican so I saw many versions of masculinity. Masculinity is just how you interpret manhood, how you feel about men in your life. What you want to take away from men you look up to. I want to be hard-working like my father, ambitious like my brother, and focused like my other brother. But I want to be non threatening, I want to be emotionally available. I want to care about others. I want to be well-kept, but I’m not afraid of color or looking “gay” I’m not here to make other men comfortable. I’m here for me and I’m not interested in a competition. My purpose in life is for me to figure out. I just will be a man doing that
and that's exactly what a woman can do too. everyone can do that. apply good things you adore or look up to from other people in ones own life. kinda sad how something so easy does not get understood by the vast majority ..
@@ahhh4117 You want to be ''non threatening''? Then you better not be a man. Society sees men as threatening by default. What are you going to do to change societal out look on men? Be a ''nice guy''. People hate ''nice guys''
Trevor Cormier I come from a feminist background, be like Chris Evans, Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross, Steve Irwin, or Freddie Mercury. None of them are threatening. I’m 5’5, and I dress like a 50s schoolboy, who am I gonna threaten.
I’m a 30yo pre-T trans guy. When I watched Natalie’s Men video, I understood she made that for cis men about what it means to be a cis man, layered with her own experience being assumed to be a cis man herself. With that said, I never felt left out of her video essays because I always came in with the expectation that it wasn’t supposed to be about me. Ironically, in the process, her videos about accepting her transness, in spite of it being from a trans feminine perspective, helped me accept my own transness in a new light. It’s helped me become more self aware of my internalized transphobia towards trans/NB people of all walks of life. This is why I just can’t with the discourse. Natalie never came across to me as some Expert On Everything Trans. She’s a story teller, and damn good at it. She knows how to illicit empathy. TH-cam kept trying to recommend this video to me, and I went in with the expectation of a smack down. I really appreciate that you didn’t go in that direction. I also really enjoyed the Superman analogy because Superman has been warped by society to be some distantly stoic goody two shoes god like being with Batman being the real, hardened down to earth practical Everyman. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Both the actual Superman and Batman have been warped into extreme caricatures of themselves who both lack empathy in a different way, and maybe empathy is the thing that portrayals of Manhood are missing. I still don’t know what being a Man means, but I know what I don’t want in my manhood. Looping back to Natalie, she always emphasizes that she barely knows what her gender is supposed to feel like and that most of it is just performance. Therefore it makes sense that cis men (since they have the most privilege to leverage) need to start performing their manhood differently so that the very blueprint of “what it means to be a man” shifts for everyone else. Sorry I don’t have a clear point to all this. I’m just thinking out loud here. Your video gave me a lot of interesting new dots to connect, so I really thank you for that.
As a subq injector I feel VERY INVALIDATED AS A MAN THE TUM TUM IS JUST AS BADASS I TAKE MY T IN THE GUT LIKE A PUNCH RAWR Kidding aside I really, really appreciate this response. I love our Dark Mother and bristle at gripes that she necessarily be “representative” of our broadly diverse community, but now that she is practically the Voice for Us Trans Online, your not-a-callout is dead on. There aren’t enough transmasc people visible enough to “fill in the gaps” and I really want to change that. Your writing is fucking great, and would love more content like this in the future. Subhellascribed.
As a binary trans man I feel like this really resonated with me. But I do feel like trans men feel the pull of transitioning into toxic masculinity in order to feel safer in some way. It's something that I'm scared of becoming myself, as I transition further. Especially since I DID find out about transness through feminism. But I liked the Superman metaphor, and I think it really helped me, thanks.
As someone who had male friends before I transitioned I know how men can be especially in group's, but I had male friends who were not toxic or misogynistic, so you can be nice and be male, just be yourself and let the rest take care of myself.
I dated a trans guy who embodied toxic masculinity. Your comment gives me hope that feminist trans men can exist and care about women's safety and happiness.
I'm incredibly thankful you put this response out there. My partner is a trans man and I often seem him struggling to find perspectives that talk about his experiences. It made me so happy to see him absolutely double over laughing when I showed him this section (5:52-6:19), and when we paused the video and he immediately started talking about how that was his exact perspective in middle school. Thanks for making the world a little better
"what is masculinity in 2019? these are kind of unfair questions to be honest; some people get pretty mad when trans people answer them." And those people are idiots. As a cis man, I value your input on this topic. We're all figuring this thing out together. I think the cultural experiences cis men grow up in through boyhood and adulthood lead them to a lot of potentially toxic mindsets and behaviors, and those of us that try to be something else work to undo the damage. We're still figuring out ourselves, let alone masculinity. For me, that's something I work through in therapy. I had to learn how to healthily express my emotions and desires from the ground up, because it wasn't I was ever taught as a boy. So I think trans men in particular have a unique opportunity to help define masculinity because they probably weren't as directly exposed to all of this toxic garbage that cis men get raised through. All the negative traits that our parents unknowingly taught us, all of the dated ideals our media tells us, all of the dumb things our friends told us about how we as men are supposed to act towards women. Trans men, especially if they transitioned later in life, probably had life experiences that looked much different as much of the world perceived and treated them as a woman. And while one person's life experiences don't necessarily wholly express the identity of half the population, they certainly shape important perspectives on it that we wouldn't be able to obtain otherwise. So, thank you for making this video, and I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
"Emotional sensitivity can be leveraged in an abusive situation just as effectively as physical power" Beautiful. Like your Batman vs. Superman analysis too.
I honestly feel like kind of the reason why trans men often become invisible in this discussion/mixed in with cis men is because we can be. As a gay trans man who has been full time for five years, I find a lot less comradery with a straight trans men than with a gay cis men, and most of it comes down to masculinity I feel. A lot of the times in my experience, straight men grow into the 'toxic' male social role fairly easily as soon as they start transistioning, and the friction i've seen on that front mostly comes from a dropped female social support system following that(e.g. exclusion from women's only groups), which is then replaced with your regular straight man nonsense as they are integrated into that society. Why upset that and a possible position as an Accepted Man by questioning/rejecting that model of masculinity? As a gay man I was from the get go excluded from such a thing, so my experience with masculinity is much different and affords me much more flexibility, to the point that I really don't care about it at this point to be honest. There's also an interesting discussion to be had, about how straight men often lean into hypermasculinity to ensure their passing/acceptance, while gay/bi men can take refuge in any clocking elements being excused as simply being a Very Camp Gay and thereby passing. This is a super complicated topic I'd honestly love to discuss more, I hope all of this made sense. Thank you for doing this video!
UndercoverAkatsuki I've been waiting to hear something about this! I'm bisexual and have been dating a man the whole time I've been out so I have very little perspective on what its like to be a straight trans man outside of Jammidodger. Trans men can usually go stealth much earlier than trans women as well, at least in the current state of things. Would love to learn more.
@@rob0tt4rmy I'm super anxious abt having this discussion out in the open because youtube and The Discourse I guess, so I hope you'll forgive me for DMing you my reply instead of putting it in the comment chain? can you even DM people on youtube?? i am Idiot
What you say about toxic masculinity often being more of a straight male thing is very true. I think a lot of gay/bi men wind up giving up the rat race of alpha males by default bc for one, str8 men won't even let them compete in the pecking order and two, a lot of toxic masculinity is built around "sexual prowess" with women. It sort of reminds me of my experience growing up of ignoring female beauty standards as I got older bc I wasn't "conventionally pretty" and identified as smart and nerdy. That made it easy to focus on my intelligence and interests as defining personal traits over my appearance. I wasn't really masculine, but I couldn't fit with the feminine norms so I lost interest. In some ways, not having the option of trying to live up to certain norms can becoming freeing in and of itself. It's a good point also that trans men likely have the privilege over trans women to assimilate more into cis masculinity, which impacts the conversation around masculinity and manhood, although I do think it's worth noting that the process of transition and essentially having to construct your male identity after being "socialized" as a girl, for lack of a better word, presents the unique opportunity for a great amount of introspection on what it means to be a man and to break away from traditional conceptions of masculinity, even if many straight trans men don't take that opportunity. But yeah, it's worth pointing out the huge difference between straight trans men and...the rest of us. I often could not relate to trans male spaces and narratives as a bisexual nonbinary person. When they'd give advice on "getting rid of" any "feminine" mannerisms or ways of speech or instruct other trans guys on how not to "be like a girl" it just struck me as invalidating as someone who both identifies with womanhood to some extent and also whose sense of masculinity is a decidedly queer one. Despite that, I've internalized some of those ideas at times, and had thoughts about not seeming "too girlY" to "pass," but my attempts to do that often feel forced. So it's easy for me to see how many straight trans guys' approach to transition could mirror how cis straight guys' experience in puberty of striving to eliminate all "traces of femininity" and "manning up," even if trans guys' motivations come from a different place (e.g. fear of being misgendered, insecurity about the "legitimacy" of their manhood, challenges of being taken seriously as a man).
i haven't watched natalie's video yet, but i really really appreciate everything you said. im a gay trans guy who is dating another trans guy and every so often i think about our relationship and realize that neither of us are really trying to attain any sort of "masculine ideal." it isn't like we aren't men or don't want to present as masculine, but more like we don't believe in gender/power dynamics in the relationship (which is something that i think cis gay men still hold on to). sometimes it's still conflicting for me to NOT be the competitive, leading male and it spikes my dysphoria if i think i'm being too feminine, but i've come to realize only recently that i'd just be playing into the hands of the oppressors if i kept up this schtick of traditional masculinity. a lot of what you said about your experience finding your identity really resonated with me, which i usually don't find in popular trans men's gender discovery stories. i think its more appealing for people to hear "I always knew i was a boy- i hated girly things and thought Whats Going On when i didnt grow a dick!" but thats so far from my own experience its made me feel like a fraud in my own community. so thanks again for speaking on this!
You should watch it, this is more an addendum because Natalie has a understanding from the mtf side of the gender spectrum Trans men is a side many transwomen get confused by but are accepting possibly because a trans man is a ftm so the changes of attitude during transition is similar but in the opposite direction. Not to say that's a bad thing at all in fact, transmen could teach cis males on what a man is the sense of power that transmen hold is a interesting opportunity to effectively rewrite what being a man is. I find this insight into the controversy most important. Contrapoints mo is to deradicalise those men whom are thinking of joining your local Nazi party and alt right brotherhoods they prey on a man's ability to infinitely question themselves and ask about their own identity. NB do make a situation more complex but a clear and consistent answer is possible in this noise in fact I have hope that it can slow down the fascist recruitment of dejected males who see their own existence as a "divine comedy" and life as a circus run by clowns with clowns and for clowns.
If you're competitive, it shows that you believe you and your partner to be evenly matched. If you weren't, you wouldn't be competing because one person would be hurt. The reason why men are competitive with each other is because they can do that without hurting each other. Men don't want to fight women because men know that they are stronger than women are. If that happens, the loser is seriously hurt, and from my personal experience men don't want the loser to be hurt-only to know that the winner has bested them.
Honestly when I saw the title of Natalie's video I was like "Duh! Of course this is gonna be about trans men." I was genuinely surprised. Also the bit at the end about Superman and Clark Kent kinda almost made me tear up, because *AS A CIS-MAN* , hearing a trans man put into words the kind of ideal man I always wanted to be seen as was ridiculously inspiring. I've always felt trapped in that the only way I thought I could be perceived as masculine would be to be emotionally unavailable and brooding, which isn't me at all. But if I were emotionally open or vulnerable, even when people were accepting and encouraging, it always felt feminizing or infantilizing, like you said about the "soft boy" archetype. I genuinely worried I'd just have to live with the fact that I was always gonna be seen as a big ol' sissy, which was kinda damaging. Thank you for mansplaining my masculinity to me lmao
Thinking about it, Superman actually kinda does represent the struggles of men in comparison to other humans, of course with Superman being in comparison to men. Superman is stronger than everyone else, and knows the damage he can cause, and thus tries to contain himself and only use his advantages for good, all while feeling alien because of his physical traits. Sounds a lot like most men to me.
@@dongiovanni-m3i I'd imagine if you were an intelligent person you wouldn't have said... well, that entire comment, since literally nothing about your pathetic attempt at an insult has even a single brain cell's worth of intelligence in it. That's a freezer temp IQ take.
Neo Torchwick You actually managed to rub two brain cells together to come up with a response, I'd be impressed but the ability to comment doesn't mean you're intelligent. Here's hoping bmblb is canon. 😉
@@dongiovanni-m3i Why is it that, every time you reply to my comments, it's less intelligent than your previous comment? I'm honestly kind of impressed.
Another example of a compassionate man that isn't a softboi: Brock from Pokemon. His character isn't super sensitive, but his strength is used in a nurturing way (taking care of his siblings and Pokemon).
Thank you for this! I'm a mom raising a cis boy (assuming, but he'll tell me if he determines differently) and his elder nonbinary sibling. Neither of them fit into the boxes society has prepared for them. I need a new masculinity in the world for their sakes.
Excellent video! I love your perspective on this, it's really important. As a genderfluid person who was raised male but feels more like a girl most of the time, I loved your Superman example, I'm not a huge Superman fan but he is certainly a great role model. For me the ideal of healthy masculinity was always Luke Skywalker, particularly at the end of RotJ where he throws his weapon away renouncing the cycle of violence that destroyed his father. I think there's plenty of good role models for masculinity out there, they just haven't yet reached the same influence that older toxic ideas have, seemingly. Anyways, loved this video and I look forward to hearing more from you in the future :)
"I had nightmares that the boy I had a crush on would want to have sex with me" WOAH. Thanks for sharing your perspective, it was thoughtful and powerful.
I like how this was an actual response, filling in what you saw (rightly) as blind spots. I'm a cis woman for context, big fan of Contra. I love hearing where our experiences overlap and differ. Thank you for your voice.
As a cis man, I've tried to define my unconventional masculinity as a coherent archetype many times, without putting myself into a box of performative characteristics. I'm so happy that you did a much better job of it than I ever could. I wish you well on your transition, and I hope you continue making videos. As a DC fan myself, the best compliment I can give you is that you understand Superman's character far more than most of his current writers.
To be honest I disagree about most trans men transitioning because of discomfort with the female social role (which some do for that reason and are totally valid btw). For me, physical dysphoria (and in particular bottom dysphoria) was so much worse then social dysphoria could ever be. Whilst being gendered in the wrong way was awful and made me feel like I was living a lie, physically having the wrong body was (and still is) unbearable. I had to deal with bottom dysphoria my whole life, and my "natal" genitals disgust me to the point of physically feeling sick. Like I literally have to wear a Mr Limpy 24/7 or I'll go into panic mode. Social dysphoria did play a huge part in me figuring out I'm trans, and I don't think I'd still be here had I not socially transitioned, but it was definitely not the main reason why I had to start my transition. To me, it boils down to not just how people should see me, but how I should have a male body.
@Feli Aslan I see what you mean. I don't really care if I'm seen as masculine or feminine, as long as people see me as a guy. The thing I'm most dysphoric about isn't something that could "give me away" as a trans guy, so it's much more physical then social (I used to get literal phantom limb's type of thing with my dick before I started packing 24/7). Pre- transition, I was super obsessed with proving how masculine and strong I am, but as soon as I started my transition, I no longer wish to "prove my strength" as my 13 year old self would say. I don't care if people think I'm a wuss, as long as they see me as male.
I think this is one of those things that varies a lot from trans person to trans person. For me, physical dysphoria exists, but I can ignore it a lot of the time, particularly when I'm home alone. What bothers me most is how people perceive me. That's what has made me finally break down and seek a testosterone prescription because I couldn't stand being treated as a woman day in and day out. The dissonance i feel between my self-perception and how others see me has become unbearable. I honestly feel like if people stopped gendering me or treating me as a woman, I would not feel the need to transition. But to be fair, I identify as nonbinary, so I definitely can't speak for trans men.
I'm not transmasc, so I don't have anything to contribute on that front, but it's nice to see other trans voices coming up to complement Natalie's (and also to push back against her nonsense too, if I'm being honest). Good as hell video, man. I'll share it around.
As a woman, I have never had to think about masculinity "like that". I mean, of course we all talk about men, but it is only in relation to what we'd like in a (singular) man or how masculinity affects us negatively. That's why I found the feminist discourse about the topic and your perspective as well highly interesting. I do think listening to other's perspectives is the first step to understanding and hopefully make men able to have their voices heard as well... I mean, men are shut down pretty fast, by men and women alike, when they are not conforming to masculinity. I just hope, that knowing they maybe aren't the only ones, that aren't super happy with how masculinity works right now, will make it possible for them to voice their concerns too. Ok, language is broken today, I still haven't quite been able to say, what I want to say. What i want to say is: knowing you're not the only one with a problem will make it more likely that you open up about a problem. ... I think that's what I was getting at.
Thank you thank you thank you, I can’t say it enough. Your videos resonate with me more than anything I’ve come across so far. I’m currently questioning and reached a point where I was desperate for some kind of perspective that aligned with what I was going through. I have a hard time identifying with the majority of trans men/masculine people so finding your channel felt like coming home, in a sense. You are very well spoken, thorough, and thoughtful, and everything you say resonates deeply with me. You add a very important voice and perspective to the discussion. I appreciate and am very grateful for what you do.
Dude, holy shit. The way you put into words the kinds of experiences that are so familiar to my own individual situation just blew me away. There are so few trans men talking about trans issues publicly, and while ContraPoints was hugely influential for me, I also felt a pointed lack of consideration for people like me. While that isn't her fault or her responsibility per se, I'm so so so appreciative of you existing to pick up that slack and fill in those gaps. I've been out as a trans man for almost eight years now, but I still haven't taken that leap of starting hormones or getting my name changed because I keep expecting to "grow out of it." That I'll wake up one day and realize, oops, I'm just a lesbian in denial all along! It's so comforting to know that you're out there and you're willing to share your perspective. Thank you for this.
Thank you so much for making this! I hate to admit it didn't even cross my mind how important trans male voices could be to this discussion. The analogy of Superman is beautiful and really helped me see what parts of masculinity that I love. Hope to see more from you!
Have to second this. And A LOT of women are terrified and uncomfortable about pregnancy. As a gender non conforming woman I was really hoping to gain an insight into how the trans male experience is different, but by this definition I'd be trans too! I am sure there is more to it though, so I'm really keen to watch more of these videos to see if these neuonces get elaborated on further. Some thoughtful stuff in there!
@@mandy3404 There is honestly a lot of overlap in the experiences of GNC women and trans afab people. I think many women and trans afab ppl struggle with the same challenges of unwanted sexual attention from men, expectations to fit a rigid gender role, pressure to be "beautiful," as well as the pains and discomforts of periods or risk of pregnancy. I think one major difference for trans people is an added layer of dissonance. One thing I noticed (as a nonbinary person) is that I have always been frustrated by microaggressions of being taken less seriously or being dismissed or treated as unreasonable bc I am seen as a woman--that's probably true of everyone raised in the female gender role. But one difference I noticed more recently, since I started the process of obtaining a testosterone prescription which has made my feelings of dysphoria a lot more acute as I wait on the treatment and reflect a lot on my gender, is that on top of those ordinary feelings of frustration I feel even MORE frustration and pain over the feeling that people aren't just mistreating me as a woman but seeing me as something I am not. It's like those "female experiences" clash with my internal sense of self. Now, in terms of the period issue, I don't have much to say because I personally am not triggered by my period and don't mind having one (and in fact, I was relieved when my doctor said low dose testosterone shouldn't affect my fertility or stop my period). So not all "gendered" aspects of the "female experience" cause dysphoria for trans people. But ultimately, the main difference in our experiences is that I want to live as a different gender, so many experiences of being the "female gender" feel incongruous with who I am.
@@mandy3404 unless brainwashed, nobody likes to be treated as inferior. This is why women are so keen on gay men, they're rejected by society as well and they feel they can bond with them. The person in the video seems to view transgender as rejecting your gender role and transitioning into the other (which means you have to pass as the other sex and so undergo medical transition). The dysphoria is social and it comes solely from the expectations forced upon them for being female/male. By transitioning they're basically saying females are like this and males are like that, instead of fighting gender roles and their own pain brang by them. The difference between women and trans men (whether gnc or not) is simply physical dysphoria.
This video is the perfect example for why we need to have open discussions about any topic. No one person can cover all the experiences and view poins of whole communities. The more people share their experiences and views the better we can undestand complex topics. Thank you so much for this video, it was very insightful and kinda made me like Superman again.
I'm more into Batman than superman like I am more into metroid's samus Arran and link from the legend of Zelda These characters display a sense of power be it, capabilities in strength, divine wisdom or courageous valor with the drive to pushback a endless tidal wave of disaster You can be a police officer and take orders or be a masked vigilante fighting for justice heroism is not just a shade of paragon or a shade of rogue, you are a hero because you use your "power" to protect and uphold your responsibility. Also, add Spider-Man to the list.
hey, i wanted to add in my two cents as a trans guy who came out ~12-13, and was very feminine as a kid. i wore a lot of dresses, watched a lot of princessy movies, shows, etc., and played with dolls. that said, as you can imagine, coming out i got a lot of the "it's a phase", "just be a lesbian" type of thing.
with that, i did have the smaller, mostly hygienic-centric signs that people overlooked. i wouldn't shower or change my clothes "often enough", i wouldn't brush my hair, i refused to wear bras, and didn't tell anyone i started my period for roughly six months after it started because something just felt wrong.
that said, i am also very much the reverse of him when you consider the fact that i was very much an "early bloomer". i was forced to start wearing bras around 8-9, yes forced, i only wore them when my mom would hold me down and put them on me (same with brushing my hair, i consistently refused). i started getting my period at 11.
so, as you can assume, we probably have very different experiences in general. though, i do agree that it was the social role that made me realize something was wrong, it was more-so a combination of the body and the social role i was forced into. to this day i still want to rip my hair out whenever i'm asked to help with cooking or cleaning whilst the cis men there are doing something entirely different. that said, i'm also still not out to most of my family, considering i'm a minor.
i don't think i've ever really experienced a male social role, because no one really sees me as male, so on that basis we're also very different. i have been absolutely sure for years that i'm a guy, i want to be seen as a guy, everything of that kind of field, but am not seen as a guy, and likely will not be in the forseeable future.
Sadly I cant say i feel like i have a contributing voice in this discussion as a cis male, but i can confidently say i have left this video with gaining a slightly more open mind/heart and a new found appreciation/admiration for Super man, :)
is he? really? gotta watch the rest of the video but wanted to look at the comments first and. I don't know. I'm a gay dude and superman kinds of nah for me.
@@rotciv1486 Zack Snyder kinda messed up his characterization, I guess. There he's saving people out of duty, but he like... Doesn't seem to like them very much. Clark Kent is usually perfect for stories you want to write about a perfect super human, both fiscally and morally. I think he's neat.
@@victorianeechan hmmm I. But he is not perfect. He is imperfect in that he is riddled with a superior complex due to his m the responsibility of how powers. The movies are bad, I think, because they wanted to be all gritty and that doesn't vibe with the whole "Ultimate boy scout" Ting
Some people take down what they don’t like. Some people build up what they like. The destroyers need the ideas generated from the creators, and the creators need the space cleared by the destroyers. You and Natalie are, I think, a perfect example of how this system functions. She illuminated and attacked many negatives of masculinity, and you used the space to breathe positivity into it. Great work.
Appreciate you! I just watched Natalie's video and it's set me searching for a new masculine ideal, something I've pondered often and loudly before. I was often uncomfortable with the tropes of masculinity,may even have grown up a softboi, but as I got older I saw there is SOME kind of role for the the innate, overall differences. Whatever the hell they are
Is there ever any one thing that "makes the difference" between a man, woman, nonbinary person, trans person, cis person, etc? Gendered categories have no transcendent or objective meaning, yet they are also overflowing with various alternative definitions challenging the mainstream ideals.
I think what many people tend to forget is that Natalie makes most videos about gender based on her own experiences. She never came out and said she wanted to be a representative for all trans or NB people. That’s what others make it to be. Do you really want a MTF to speak from a FTM’s point of view? She’s a binary transwoman. Do you really want her to speak on behalf of non-binary people?
I think its also important that contra's video is not the full discussion. Further videos can be made on stuff like this. Open the discussion, dont fricken shut it down???? What's even the point of doing that?????????? Glad that there are people like you keeping the conversation civil and open. I just really wish these ppl coming at Natalie with pitchforks would stop. Jfc.
I'm very glad I found your video. The last part got me good. When I watched Contra's video, the way it ended tugged at my depression very unconfortably. I was afraid that in this life I would not find an ideal of manhood to aspire to. I know it sounds dramatic but it happened in the wake of a big break up in my relationship with my father, so I was very desilusioned with the role models presented to me. The way you talked about Superman, about being someone that struggles with a sense of otherness, of being an outlier, but still goes out of his way to prevent harm whenever he can, that resonates a lot with me. I want to be that. Someone brave enough, strong enough, so that when I see someone in need, I can offer my hand without breaking myself, or somehow hurting the people I was out to help. It's fucking overwhelming how afraid of failure I got over the years. So thanks for taking your time and sharing. You helped and inspired me.
Although I am a cis man, I do feel like I have a lot of issues trying to fit into "traditional male-roles." I really hate the idea of being ultra-masculine and trying to assert dominance, because my personality just doesn't match that. I really feel bad for trans-men because, not only are you trying to deal with transitioning, but you're transitioning into something that is traditionally very toxic. I appreciate your work in trying to redefine masculinity. God bless you, trans men of the world. Your efforts are appreciated.
Baby trans guy here. I've only been on testosterone for a bit over a month and I came out to people in my life earlier this year. I'm not sure how much wisdom I have to really add, but I can add my experience. Navigating a completely different social role has been comforting in some sense because I do feel at home in my skin now. Despite the comfort I feel, it's still incredibly confusing and makes me question myself daily. I obviously have a very different perspective than many men around me, but being different can cause me to be dysphoric socially about the way that I'm relating to other men. I find myself constantly swaying towards this toughness, callousness, and having less empathy for others when I'm trying to conform to the people around me. I obviously don't want to be this way. I do notice it a lot of trans masculine circles where trans men try to conform to what society thinks a man should be because being different then those men can create discomfort. I do agree with you with your conclusion, that the best way of creating the "ideal man" is breaking down those walls of the box. The walls can be very suffocating sometimes. Sometimes I just wanna yell "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD SO CUTE" when I see a bunny at work.
contra has never claimed to not respect anyone else’s experience. she believes strongly in letting other people speak for their own identities and i would rather her stick to that than try to speak for everyone’s experience and fail. her leaving your experience out gives you a platform to tell your own story.
We like to Disk Horse about The Algorithm, but it sure did me a solid when it threw this video my way. You have a really engaging and accessible linguistic style and a fun delivery of the material; what with lefty youtube getting so into the weeds with artistic flourish to their video essays, a relatively direct response video was super refreshing. It's super important that your voice as a trans man is heard in this conversation and-- as a nonbinary individual who often struggles to express their own discomfort with The Box to conservative relatives-- I really appreciated hearing you articulate your own experience with the issue! I feel like I can better express my own Gender Stuff after hearing you talk about yours. And as a small aside-- the Superman piece in the end was a lovely way to close out the essay. The clear passion and admiration for Clark Kent in your voice came close to making me cry. :')
Thank you so much for sharing all of this perspective - I really really appreciate it. I found this video illuminating and the way you expounded on your points was really engaging and made a lot of sense to me. I look forward to seeing more! thanks again! As a cis man, I found your explanation of what a new ideal of manhood should look like to be really inspiring to me on a personal level.
Edit: when this video first dropped, I left a comment that began “Not super my place as a cis girl, but I do want to share some thoughts about positive male identity” … a few years later and I am out as transmasculine, finally understanding why this video held my attention so intensely for so long. Thank you for helping crack my egg, Dylan.
This is super fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing your detailed experience about how you have experienced HRT. I think I am probably an "ordinary" cis woman but I have always been fascinated by the subtle differences in how we experience the influence of hormones.
While I love the way this is written, unfortunately no, Batman's disguise is Bruce Wayne and the comics keep hammering that in again and again. He is super messed up and Batman is his true face. You can see for instance imgur.com/gallery/Ut7BD as example
A lot of contrapoints videos come from personal experience so of course they are mostly going to be about mtf related topics I don't think its fair to ask someone who has no experience going from female to male to add it into their videos
Yeah but at the same time making a video about men and masculinity and only mentioning cis men makes it feel... Kind of incomplete? I guess that she could have at the very least acknowledged that (still a contra stan tho)
i don't think that's very reasonable bc she sometimes mentions the experience of POC to better explain some points/arguments. i get that she will never make one video specifically about trans men, but she could at least have mentioned queer masculinity in general, it would contribute to the conversation. so i'm glad somebody else responded with a very elucidative video contributing to that conversation with another perspective
I absolutely love that this response is a real answer to 'what is the new ideal of manhood' and not 'what did Natalie say wrong.' Really fantastic video, love your work!
Thankyou, I have so much hope for transmen changing our perception of genderroles. We are at a point in feminism, where we have to work on the male role to developing more freedom. I dont think it is a mistake, that Natalie is not talking about things she did not expirience. She is a wise Transwoman, not a transman or a transgod. You transmen have to speak. Much love from a feminist cis lesbian
Honestly, mpreg fanfiction has been a helpful tool for reproductive dysphoria. The idea of a fully recognised male character straddling that gender line and experiencing the bearer burden really gave me something to grab onto.
Can you please make a full video essay about the Batman vs. Superman ideals? Cis-guy here, and I've always liked Batman way more than Superman for the reasons you listed, and I also know I've really, really, really internalized a shit ton of toxic ideals that make me hate myself for not living up to. I would love more thoughts on how to apply this comic book dichotemy to daily life with concrete examples. Awesome video; thank you.
As a feminine gay cis man who often gets misgendered as a they or a she (I still don't know which hurts more), both this AND Natalie's videos resonate with me. I feel like I can't assert my gender identity without seeming toxic, ie it can be hard to just say "I'm a man" without getting mixed up in the group of people making the exact same neutral statement in bad faith. I feel awkward every time I have to correct someone just because my hair is different from what most other cis men have. I feel like I do recieve about 1% of the type of oppression trans people face just because I don't look 100% one way or the other, even though I'm not non-binary. Edit after reading other comments: I still stand by Natalie's video from a cis perspective, but yes, it 100% definitely needed a trans man's perspective, and more organization, there were a few parts that were confusing to me too
This video was absolutely wondeful Imo! The question of daring to stop outside the box is something Ive been dealing with myself (Im questioning if I'm agender) and to see you so openly encourage people to that, and show us your personal interpretation of masculinity for instance, has encouraged me to step further away from my own box of femininity. Bless you also, might I add , you have a very soothing voice
I love this! I’ve honestly kind of been waiting for the day when more trans guys would start speaking up that Contra’s videos largely gloss over them (or people like me, an afab nonbinary lesbian who presents masc). She shuts us out of the discourse with jokes but it’s still dismissive - I’m thinking in particular of her line in ‘Beauty’ when she was like ‘maybe lesbians are just straight chilling while all the rest of us have lost our minds.’ For me, lines like that (which do pop up often) show that there are certain afab perspectives that she’s written off as out of her lane even though we offer some of the missing pieces to the conversation. Similar to your point about ‘gender critical’ and trans man, TERFs specifically target young gender nonconforming lesbians and afab people with dysphoria - they recruit from a very specific pool and Natalie didn’t address this at all. I’m probably getting off-topic, but I wish there were more transmasc people on youtube with larger audiences since the bigger ‘breadtube’ people aren’t really great allies to transmasc/nb/gnc women.
ContraPoints fan here, I’m loving this take. I left a comment criticizing her lack of understanding masc non-binary and transmen. Keep up the good work!
The mythopoetic men's movement of the late 70s through early 90s has some useful insights. Fun fact, they're the ones who invented a term called "toxic masculinity"
Also, transcending the box of signifiers is not about finding a new role to fill... It's about discovering who we are inherently. Playing a role is an issue, regardless of the role
After all of the Discourse surrounding Contrapoints over the last few months, coming across this response entirely by happenstance was just unbelievably refreshing.
When you compared being pregnant to having a chest-burster inside of you I died. As a trans man and a fan of the Alien franchise I related to that so much. Subscribed. :)
I was thinking back to this video when I realized my male role model is Lt. Columbo. He’s the poster child for non toxic masculinity. Profoundly good, patient, messy, kind, always making people feel heard and understood whilst quietly going about his own way. He only loses temper in the face of despicable obtuse people actively harming others. But otherwise he’s just incredibly smart AND kind, a combo not many fictional characters embody.
You are so right. Although those qualities are not the property of any gender, he is a male role model to look up to, especially in comparison to the 1970s - 1980s male characters in the rest of the show. Even putting aside that they were murderers, most were callous, conceited and hyper-macho.
Love this! Superman is a great model! Prior to my transition, I was actually pretty comfortable with my male role. You learn to play by jostling for position. You invent things to jostle for because it's fun. I remember telling a trans guy that early in my life I had to learn to "man up." I don't think those are necessarily bad things. I didn't feel like my attitudes were toxic. But I was also tempered in a lot of ways most trans women are prior to transition, I wasn't particularly drawn to aggressive displays of strength. I wasn't drawn to Batman. Honestly my guy was from the other universe, Spider-Man, because he was basically Superman but with less powers, so his struggle was harder. And in the midst of it, he always had a witty quip for his antagonist. (For what it's worth, I don't think there current MCU Spider-Man write captures the Spider-Man I feel in love with in comic books as a kid.) Really great point about Natalie missing trans men. Natalie almost always articulates exactly how I feel, and I'm ashamed to say that I didn't notice the exclusion of the trans masculine perspective in that video. It's glaring when you point it out though. This is a really valuable contribution to the conversation!
Thinking about it, Superman is a pretty good metaphor for men in general. Naturally stronger, feeling alien for his potential, trying his best to do good in any way he can, ashamed when he ends up hurting someone. Superman is just that way in comparison to men, while men are that way in comparison to the rest of humanity.
Thanks for giving me some new perspective. On both masculinity AND Superman. Finding this in my recommended was a very interesting way of ending my latest yt spree. I'll be sure to check out your more recent videos!
i've been a long time fan of contrapoints but the complete lack of information on transmen has always been a sore spot for me, im happy to see expansion on the conversation instead of just having her chased out of the room i'm even more grateful to go thru your channel and see a perspective of trans life that i can really relate to sorry if im repeating myself thanks for making your videos ;u;
Great video, thank you! I know Contrapoints has expressed reticence about speaking for groups she doesn’t belong to (why she avoided the NB perspective for so long), and this measure of respect sometimes limits her scope. She’s probably aware of the problem, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she talks more about trans men in the future.
whoa. apart from being a fantastic contribution to the discussion, this was very personally eye-opening for me. when you said that you had nightmares about your crush wanting to have sex with you, something just clicked. i had similar issues towards sex my whole life and had no idea it was dysphoria. this gave me a lot of insight into myself and it looks like i have a lot of reflecting to do! thank you
Cisguy here, your superman conclusion made me cry. I just subbed and I don't know whether you have expanded on that thought, but I really think you're on to something there. Hope to see more of your content, cheers dude!
Thank you so much for talking about this! I've been questioning whether I'm nonbinary or a trans man and I've been struggling with how I would fit into a male social role and what healthy masculinity looks like.
I like being a woman but the way you describe how you felt in puberty resonates with me so much. I still have those feelings, especially when men look at me in a sexual way Dx
I'm glad I came across this video. Natalie's video made me think a lot about what being a cis man meant to me and the ways I expressed it. Anyway I came out as Nonbinary like a week later. Because on the one hand I can't stand most of masculinity. My male social groups always seem to have a heirarchy and everyone feels the need to one-up eachother. It drives me mad. But on the other hand I don't think anything I am or do is strictly outside the box. Basically I'll be right here when they realise they need to build a bigger box.
I've had similar struggles as someone who is genderfluid, since overall I think I would be happier with myself if I transitioned to present much more masculine. but, there's another part of me that hesitates, bc being read as a man socially has a lot of baggage that comes with it. Even when I first realized that I was sometimes a guy, I struggled a bit with that bc I didn't know what that meant for me exactly.
I am also genderfluid and a strident feminist so i can relate to this. I just want to say to not be afraid to explore your gender or transition options. I'm in the process of getting a testosterone prescription and thinking about what it will mean to be read as male more frequently. It's not easy to navigate all this stuff when you're coming at masculinity from a feminist pov. I honestly have a LOT of rage toward men. Like A LOT. I am by all accounts a manhating feminist. But I already separate that anger toward men as an oppressive social class from my experiences with individual men who aren't furthering misogyny. So I figure if I can do that for individual men I know and enjoy being friends with, I can do that for myself. It's just going to take some time and effort. There's also the fact that we as nonbinary people are uniquely positioned to challenge certain gender norms and ideas. By openly existing, we undermine the idea that men and women are these binary immutable categories.
"I think, to define a new masculinity, we need to break the taboo that's associated with leaving the box, reduce the shame associated with vulnerability, reduce the antagonism that comes when you wear clothes from the wrong side of the store... reduce the urge to become a master and introduce a more egalitarian idea of leadership." Fuck, man, nail on head. I'm a cis guy who's lucky enough to have avoided a lot of toxic masculinity, and my warmest and best male relationships have all these aspects. You articulate yourself extremely well. I subscribed two minutes in.
Thank you! I'm a trans man to. I greatly enjoyed hearing you describe coming into a female gender role in adolescence both in expectations and physicality--I relate to so much of it. I love Natalie's point that men need to imagine positive masculinities - it makes sense in the context of the white cis male attracted to alt right group of men that she was talking about. But wow she missed out by not including transmaskuline and nonbinary perspectives. Thanks again 💜
Thank you very much for this video response. I love Natalie, and as a cis man, her video "men" touched me deeply. Yes: it lacked the perspective of trans men, but I think that she is aware that she cannot represent properly something outside her experiece. She was socialized as a man, and then transitioned, so this is her own experience. I hope that more and more trans men like you will share their experiences to fill the gaps in many people understanding of gender experiences. Thank you again, and a big hug from Italy (sorry if I made some mistake with English!).
Thank you! Fellow second-puberty person here :) I really need to hear more transmasculine stories and perspectives like this. Femininity has been such a source of good for me, BUT I didn't get the early conditioning you did that very well might have made me feel much more mixed. It's also good to hear how things that were dysphoric for me bring joy to someone else. So many finger snaps in this video. So fucking articulate! 💥💥💥 and btw Clark is an awesome middle name! I had never heard this take on Superman before. Well done bro :D
I'm one year on T and I can relate so much to your story. The story of Superman was never one I considered due just being rather avoidant of those stories, but the lesson is definitely one we can all learn from!
I'm mtf, and a fan of Contra. And I'm not gonna lie - I didn't even think of trans men when watching her video. Thanks for the perspective. I always like hearing ftm people, because its nice hearing things resonating from the opposite direction. Keep being super.
I really like that you did this explicitly as a response to add the trans male perspective rather than being angry at Contrapoints for not covering it. She tries to cover so much already and seeing her dogpiled on Twitter for not representing every perspective in every little thing she says has been heartbreaking. I feel that the reach of her platform has really opened up space for other trans people to add their own perspectives so thank you for stepping up and doing that.
Totally! It's impossible for any one person to address everything that needs to be addressed in conversations about gender (or pretty much anything else) so it's much more useful to just add to what folks say rather than tear them down for leaving stuff out.
Yeah, I was hesitating to watch cause I thought it was going to add to the pile. This is good.
@@piperaislinn2511 i feel like not only it's impossible to cover every perspective, It's would also a counterproductive ideal. It's better to cover properly limited talking points and not overstep the limits of what you have authority over. We can't expect Contrapoints to digest all of the reading on gender for us.
+
I'm not sure if it's fair to paint Natalie as the Spokesperson For All Trans people since I mostly see her as the anti-fascist, anti-white supremacy lady.
Trans guy here. Personally, I think everyone involved is getting caught up in "feminine" and "masculine" as the precursor to these ideals. I think it would benefit men, women, and enbies FAR more if instead of having culturally "ideal men" and "ideal women", we just have "ideal people" that we can look up and relate to no matter our gender. Anybody can be rugged, heroic, sensitive, artistic, stoic, bubbly, or what have you, and any of those things can be good. A woman's personal ideal can be Superman, and a man's personal ideal can be Mother Theresa. Traits aren't gendered, but in viewing them as such their connotations change drastically.
I know, I know... asking people to view others as a collection of traits without gender is a lot to ask for. For now, I'll stick with this:
Men need to be more introspective as a whole. Your "masculine ideal" should come from the self, your personality and your interests, not from what others are telling you to idealize. We need to focus less on what makes a good man, and more on what makes a good person. A good man isn't made of carpentry skills, competitiveness, a "provider" status, and muscle; nor is the only ideal man a Superman. A "good man" worthy of aspiration is a good person who happens to be a man, nothing more and nothing less, and I think that's something a lot of young guys don't realize as they idolize not-so-great men with a certain trait they desire (which usually coincides with old-fashioned views of masculinity).
Sorry if all that's jumbled and doesn't make much sense. I tend to have a hard time expressing my ideas in words. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, though!
-Real talk time, Spiderman is where it's at.-
I agree with this, on an ideal level, but I don't feel - at least in my lifetime - that we will ever be able to get beyond gender. Gender is so entrenched in how we view people, we can view exactly the same traits as totally different when presented by someone of another gender. If you're a woman and try to imitate a male role model, chances are, unless you adapt it some way to the fact that you are female, most people will not like you very much, and vice versa. So I think it's useful to analyse what it means to be a "good man" and a "good woman" separately, if you want to get beyond the purely theoretical
Spiderman truly is where it's at. In Spiderman homecoming when Peter was trapped under that rubble, crying, but hyping himself up to overcome the metaphorical burden of the pressures of power as well as the actual burden of the fucking pillars of concrete, that was such a compelling overlap of vulnerability and strength.
But isn't kind of strange to idealise traits in the first place? For example being loud or shy isn't a personality fault... it's just part of who you are. It doesn't make you good or bad if you're conflict averse, or meticulous, or energetic and empathetic. Why put ourselves in boxes and try to contort ourselves to be things we're not? It's far better to just accept yourself. Personality traits can be assets or weaknesses depending on the context. When you can understand that and learn to love yourself is when we can truly grow into adults.
In my perspective, feminism worked to break women out of boxes that their gender put them in. It worked to do exactly what you're pointing out. Not an ideal woman. But just a complex and as good as can be person. And I think that maybe that should be happening for men too. Not to create a better box. But to let them know that they're just people, who can get anywhere regardless of gender
@@KatieBadenhorst It depends on what the traits are; most are neutral, but there are definitely good and bad traits. Sadism to the extent you like cutting the tails off cats, inability to admit to or learn from mistakes, greed, narcissism, dishonesty... these are all things that are harmful to other people, yourself, or (most commonly) both. You shouldn't just accept that you are one of these things and leave it at that.
Adulthood isn't *just* about loving yourself. It's about understanding, recognizing, and improving yourself as well. You can accept the way you are and your worth as a human but still recognize that things need changing. As a personal example, I'm messy and always have been. I have just accepted it and dealt with it for most of my life. But I can't *just* accept it because it hinders me. I've been working on changing it, because I know I will be much happier without stuff all over the floor and with the ability to find things quickly. Being messy doesn't make me a bad or unlikable person, but it is a problem, and it does need to be improved.
Really liked this video, glad TH-cam suggested it to me!
As a cis man, I liked Nat's video a lot. The experience of being masculine in a "toxic" way is a pretty consistent factor in the lives of nearly all cis men (myself included) and it's tough to really understand why and how that happens for a lot of young cis men. Nat did a good job of exploring this (disposable male, symbol of power/fear, etc.) and how the far-right exploits these. However, as her videos are very focused on being anti-far-right, she seems much better at revealing/tearing down "bad" systems than she is showing/building "good" ones and her videos often lack a positive call-to-action because of it.
Your perspective is absolutely a helpful and necessary addition to this conversation. I'm very glad that you shared it! The current male experience is far too narrow and we definitely need to better see how we can build new, far more positive "boxes" for ourselves.
I'm glad you posted this here. It's refreshing to see cis men wanting to collaborate with trans men on Building a Better Man so to speak.
@@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice I agree: I'm a cis man and I feel this need too.
As the mum of a trans son I found this so heartwarming & illuminating. My son is a gentle, kind and soft soul and I would hate to lose that because he felt he had to fit in with some masculine ideal. Speaking personally as I've gone on this journey with my son I've become a bit sick of the binary gender roles, the 2 boxes everyone tries to put ppl in. Can't we throw away these unhelpful and damaging gender roles and just start valuing pplfor who they are, their uniqueness and what's in their heart. Nothing else matters to me.
Loved this video. ❤❤❤
THIS is the kind of discourse I want to see about Natalie's content. Not broke takes about how she's transphobic towards non-binary people, but actual conversations about how there are gaps in her perspective on trans issues
Unless your physically transitioning your not transsexual, I'm not sure what id class none binary folk as, probably just people who either haven't the courage to transition yet or are just trying to highjack the trans narrative, some are transvestites and crossdessers who hate those terms and want to be called something else so none binary fits the bill, I've even heard the term a male lesbian recently, which shows how people want to make up daft terms just to irritate genuine transsexual folk.
Actually, a lot of non-binary people medically transition in some way, they might only take hormones or only get certain surgeries in an attempt at a more ambiguous anatomy, unlike binary trans people, who would go through transition specifically wanting to be seen as only male or female
@@nicolajohnson1887 Trans is being used here as an umbrella term for people who identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth/raised and socialized as. I don't think they're really hijacking the trans narrative, they're a part of it. Binary trans and nonbinary people do have very different experiences but they don't take away from one another. If you want to learn more about what being nonbinary means, there are lots of cool nonbinary youtubers who can tell you about themselves, such as Ash Hardell.
nicola johnson hush nicola you are a dummy and you are embarrassing yourself omg
@@madnessends2477 I'm just not buying the folk who don't transition fully if your mtf and like having a cock your guy same with ftm if you like having a vag, I get that the surgeries are scary and expensive but that the risk you have to take, I'm sorry but transvestites and crossdessers and fantacists are not trans and are just confusing the general public and causing genuine transsexual to be put in danger, so unless you are 100% serious about fully transitioning then stick being cis.
Idk I feel like trans men need to speak for themselves rather than leaving it to contrapoints? She gets flamed pretty hard for sharing her own personal experience, this wouldn’t be a great move for her.
A male contrapoints is likely needed for transmen to speak out against the noise
Same. I always felt she didn't talk enough about trans men, I left some comments about it in some of her vids i think, but guess what... she's a trans woman and she speaks from THAT perspective, and that's ok. She's said multiple times she doesn't speak for every LGBTQ+ person out there. This video (and all I've seen from NB people/ trans guys in response to Natalie's vids) is necessary. We need the perspectives and experiences of other people.
Thank you. In fact, I feel it would be weird for her to speak on behalf of transmen.
I don't think she needs to speak for trans men, but maybe a few more qualifiers every now and then where it is, "and don't forget the trans men". I have no problem with her focusing on the transwoman perspective, because that is what she is.
But she leaves them out entirely. I feel its because she's catering to a narrative though. That really hit home when he said "what are we transitioning into?"
Thank you. Not what I initially thought was coming when I saw "response video" on reddit. I'm pretty sure ContraPoints doesn't outright refuse but chooses to sidestep the trans male perspective because she knows she can't truly speak to that experience. Having someone who can and will speak on that is great; having someone who will do so without throwing too much shade on someone their responding to just for having a blind spot is invaluable for modern discourse!
I like that you added to the discourse instead of just dragging Natalie on the figurative floor. It was pretty informative. Thanks.
"I still liked butterflies"
As a cis man I can tell you people are plain lying if they say the don't.
"Self-administering adrenalineAAAA"
I cried from laughter this guy gets it.
Edit: y'all are never gonna believe this but I guess I wasn't that cis
mischief UwU
Off topic, but I love your pfp.
@@anon9359 The pfp is a character from animated web series called Interface. If you haven't please watch the web series on TH-cam, I may sound annoying but I want this series to get all the attention it deserves.
@@homosapien9526
Oh, no worries! I already knew it was Mischief, that's why I complimented it, lol. But I totally get where you're coming from, if someone were to say they liked mine, I'd hope they'd know where it's from too because it also deserves love.
Hard disagree. I am shit-scared of butterflies and moths.
I come from a feminist and non binary background. But here’s the thing gender isn’t real in the way a lot of people think it is. It isn’t a hard driving force that forces men to spread their legs on transits. It’s something given, something inherited, and something customized.
I’m also Mexican so I saw many versions of masculinity.
Masculinity is just how you interpret manhood, how you feel about men in your life. What you want to take away from men you look up to.
I want to be hard-working like my father, ambitious like my brother, and focused like my other brother.
But I want to be non threatening, I want to be emotionally available.
I want to care about others. I want to be well-kept, but I’m not afraid of color or looking “gay” I’m not here to make other men comfortable. I’m here for me and I’m not interested in a competition. My purpose in life is for me to figure out. I just will be a man doing that
and that's exactly what a woman can do too. everyone can do that. apply good things you adore or look up to from other people in ones own life. kinda sad how something so easy does not get understood by the vast majority ..
Burnkastel I mean yeah, but you kinda detracted from my point
@Burnkastel
Exactly. It’s so simple yet society still can’t grasp this very basic idea.
@@ahhh4117 You want to be ''non threatening''? Then you better not be a man. Society sees men as threatening by default. What are you going to do to change societal out look on men? Be a ''nice guy''. People hate ''nice guys''
Trevor Cormier I come from a feminist background, be like Chris Evans, Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross, Steve Irwin, or Freddie Mercury. None of them are threatening. I’m 5’5, and I dress like a 50s schoolboy, who am I gonna threaten.
I’m a 30yo pre-T trans guy. When I watched Natalie’s Men video, I understood she made that for cis men about what it means to be a cis man, layered with her own experience being assumed to be a cis man herself.
With that said, I never felt left out of her video essays because I always came in with the expectation that it wasn’t supposed to be about me. Ironically, in the process, her videos about accepting her transness, in spite of it being from a trans feminine perspective, helped me accept my own transness in a new light. It’s helped me become more self aware of my internalized transphobia towards trans/NB people of all walks of life.
This is why I just can’t with the discourse. Natalie never came across to me as some Expert On Everything Trans. She’s a story teller, and damn good at it. She knows how to illicit empathy.
TH-cam kept trying to recommend this video to me, and I went in with the expectation of a smack down. I really appreciate that you didn’t go in that direction. I also really enjoyed the Superman analogy because Superman has been warped by society to be some distantly stoic goody two shoes god like being with Batman being the real, hardened down to earth practical Everyman. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Both the actual Superman and Batman have been warped into extreme caricatures of themselves who both lack empathy in a different way, and maybe empathy is the thing that portrayals of Manhood are missing.
I still don’t know what being a Man means, but I know what I don’t want in my manhood. Looping back to Natalie, she always emphasizes that she barely knows what her gender is supposed to feel like and that most of it is just performance. Therefore it makes sense that cis men (since they have the most privilege to leverage) need to start performing their manhood differently so that the very blueprint of “what it means to be a man” shifts for everyone else.
Sorry I don’t have a clear point to all this. I’m just thinking out loud here. Your video gave me a lot of interesting new dots to connect, so I really thank you for that.
As a subq injector I feel VERY INVALIDATED AS A MAN THE TUM TUM IS JUST AS BADASS I TAKE MY T IN THE GUT LIKE A PUNCH RAWR
Kidding aside I really, really appreciate this response. I love our Dark Mother and bristle at gripes that she necessarily be “representative” of our broadly diverse community, but now that she is practically the Voice for Us Trans Online, your not-a-callout is dead on. There aren’t enough transmasc people visible enough to “fill in the gaps” and I really want to change that. Your writing is fucking great, and would love more content like this in the future. Subhellascribed.
As a binary trans man I feel like this really resonated with me. But I do feel like trans men feel the pull of transitioning into toxic masculinity in order to feel safer in some way. It's something that I'm scared of becoming myself, as I transition further. Especially since I DID find out about transness through feminism. But I liked the Superman metaphor, and I think it really helped me, thanks.
As someone who had male friends before I transitioned I know how men can be especially in group's, but I had male friends who were not toxic or misogynistic, so you can be nice and be male, just be yourself and let the rest take care of myself.
I dated a trans guy who embodied toxic masculinity. Your comment gives me hope that feminist trans men can exist and care about women's safety and happiness.
I'm incredibly thankful you put this response out there. My partner is a trans man and I often seem him struggling to find perspectives that talk about his experiences. It made me so happy to see him absolutely double over laughing when I showed him this section (5:52-6:19), and when we paused the video and he immediately started talking about how that was his exact perspective in middle school. Thanks for making the world a little better
Omg I busted up at "Chest-burster appropriating your hard-earned nutrients."
The part on intravenous injection being more masculine is what got me.
My friend is pregnant right now and she has vision problems sometimes because her nutrients are being syphoned from her
Yet another reason as an afab enby that I vastly prefer cats to reproducing.
"what is masculinity in 2019? these are kind of unfair questions to be honest; some people get pretty mad when trans people answer them." And those people are idiots. As a cis man, I value your input on this topic. We're all figuring this thing out together. I think the cultural experiences cis men grow up in through boyhood and adulthood lead them to a lot of potentially toxic mindsets and behaviors, and those of us that try to be something else work to undo the damage. We're still figuring out ourselves, let alone masculinity. For me, that's something I work through in therapy. I had to learn how to healthily express my emotions and desires from the ground up, because it wasn't I was ever taught as a boy. So I think trans men in particular have a unique opportunity to help define masculinity because they probably weren't as directly exposed to all of this toxic garbage that cis men get raised through. All the negative traits that our parents unknowingly taught us, all of the dated ideals our media tells us, all of the dumb things our friends told us about how we as men are supposed to act towards women. Trans men, especially if they transitioned later in life, probably had life experiences that looked much different as much of the world perceived and treated them as a woman. And while one person's life experiences don't necessarily wholly express the identity of half the population, they certainly shape important perspectives on it that we wouldn't be able to obtain otherwise. So, thank you for making this video, and I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
"Emotional sensitivity can be leveraged in an abusive situation just as effectively as physical power"
Beautiful.
Like your Batman vs. Superman analysis too.
Your superhero analogy was so eloquent and beautiful. It really helped me understand your perspective, and gave me chills! Well said!
I honestly feel like kind of the reason why trans men often become invisible in this discussion/mixed in with cis men is because we can be. As a gay trans man who has been full time for five years, I find a lot less comradery with a straight trans men than with a gay cis men, and most of it comes down to masculinity I feel. A lot of the times in my experience, straight men grow into the 'toxic' male social role fairly easily as soon as they start transistioning, and the friction i've seen on that front mostly comes from a dropped female social support system following that(e.g. exclusion from women's only groups), which is then replaced with your regular straight man nonsense as they are integrated into that society. Why upset that and a possible position as an Accepted Man by questioning/rejecting that model of masculinity?
As a gay man I was from the get go excluded from such a thing, so my experience with masculinity is much different and affords me much more flexibility, to the point that I really don't care about it at this point to be honest. There's also an interesting discussion to be had, about how straight men often lean into hypermasculinity to ensure their passing/acceptance, while gay/bi men can take refuge in any clocking elements being excused as simply being a Very Camp Gay and thereby passing. This is a super complicated topic I'd honestly love to discuss more, I hope all of this made sense. Thank you for doing this video!
UndercoverAkatsuki I've been waiting to hear something about this! I'm bisexual and have been dating a man the whole time I've been out so I have very little perspective on what its like to be a straight trans man outside of Jammidodger. Trans men can usually go stealth much earlier than trans women as well, at least in the current state of things. Would love to learn more.
@@rob0tt4rmy
I'm super anxious abt having this discussion out in the open because youtube and The Discourse I guess, so I hope you'll forgive me for DMing you my reply instead of putting it in the comment chain? can you even DM people on youtube?? i am Idiot
What you say about toxic masculinity often being more of a straight male thing is very true. I think a lot of gay/bi men wind up giving up the rat race of alpha males by default bc for one, str8 men won't even let them compete in the pecking order and two, a lot of toxic masculinity is built around "sexual prowess" with women. It sort of reminds me of my experience growing up of ignoring female beauty standards as I got older bc I wasn't "conventionally pretty" and identified as smart and nerdy. That made it easy to focus on my intelligence and interests as defining personal traits over my appearance. I wasn't really masculine, but I couldn't fit with the feminine norms so I lost interest. In some ways, not having the option of trying to live up to certain norms can becoming freeing in and of itself.
It's a good point also that trans men likely have the privilege over trans women to assimilate more into cis masculinity, which impacts the conversation around masculinity and manhood, although I do think it's worth noting that the process of transition and essentially having to construct your male identity after being "socialized" as a girl, for lack of a better word, presents the unique opportunity for a great amount of introspection on what it means to be a man and to break away from traditional conceptions of masculinity, even if many straight trans men don't take that opportunity.
But yeah, it's worth pointing out the huge difference between straight trans men and...the rest of us. I often could not relate to trans male spaces and narratives as a bisexual nonbinary person. When they'd give advice on "getting rid of" any "feminine" mannerisms or ways of speech or instruct other trans guys on how not to "be like a girl" it just struck me as invalidating as someone who both identifies with womanhood to some extent and also whose sense of masculinity is a decidedly queer one. Despite that, I've internalized some of those ideas at times, and had thoughts about not seeming "too girlY" to "pass," but my attempts to do that often feel forced. So it's easy for me to see how many straight trans guys' approach to transition could mirror how cis straight guys' experience in puberty of striving to eliminate all "traces of femininity" and "manning up," even if trans guys' motivations come from a different place (e.g. fear of being misgendered, insecurity about the "legitimacy" of their manhood, challenges of being taken seriously as a man).
This thread is absolutely fantastic, so many different angles to think about.
wow. as a fellow gay trans guy/transmasc I relate So Hard to this. thanks for putting your comment out there! 🤠
i haven't watched natalie's video yet, but i really really appreciate everything you said. im a gay trans guy who is dating another trans guy and every so often i think about our relationship and realize that neither of us are really trying to attain any sort of "masculine ideal." it isn't like we aren't men or don't want to present as masculine, but more like we don't believe in gender/power dynamics in the relationship (which is something that i think cis gay men still hold on to). sometimes it's still conflicting for me to NOT be the competitive, leading male and it spikes my dysphoria if i think i'm being too feminine, but i've come to realize only recently that i'd just be playing into the hands of the oppressors if i kept up this schtick of traditional masculinity.
a lot of what you said about your experience finding your identity really resonated with me, which i usually don't find in popular trans men's gender discovery stories. i think its more appealing for people to hear "I always knew i was a boy- i hated girly things and thought Whats Going On when i didnt grow a dick!" but thats so far from my own experience its made me feel like a fraud in my own community. so thanks again for speaking on this!
You should watch it, this is more an addendum because Natalie has a understanding from the mtf side of the gender spectrum
Trans men is a side many transwomen get confused by but are accepting possibly because a trans man is a ftm so the changes of attitude during transition is similar but in the opposite direction.
Not to say that's a bad thing at all in fact, transmen could teach cis males on what a man is the sense of power that transmen hold is a interesting opportunity to effectively rewrite what being a man is.
I find this insight into the controversy most important.
Contrapoints mo is to deradicalise those men whom are thinking of joining your local Nazi party and alt right brotherhoods they prey on a man's ability to infinitely question themselves and ask about their own identity. NB do make a situation more complex but a clear and consistent answer is possible in this noise in fact I have hope that it can slow down the fascist recruitment of dejected males who see their own existence as a "divine comedy" and life as a circus run by clowns with clowns and for clowns.
If you're competitive, it shows that you believe you and your partner to be evenly matched. If you weren't, you wouldn't be competing because one person would be hurt. The reason why men are competitive with each other is because they can do that without hurting each other. Men don't want to fight women because men know that they are stronger than women are. If that happens, the loser is seriously hurt, and from my personal experience men don't want the loser to be hurt-only to know that the winner has bested them.
Honestly when I saw the title of Natalie's video I was like "Duh! Of course this is gonna be about trans men." I was genuinely surprised.
Also the bit at the end about Superman and Clark Kent kinda almost made me tear up, because *AS A CIS-MAN* , hearing a trans man put into words the kind of ideal man I always wanted to be seen as was ridiculously inspiring. I've always felt trapped in that the only way I thought I could be perceived as masculine would be to be emotionally unavailable and brooding, which isn't me at all. But if I were emotionally open or vulnerable, even when people were accepting and encouraging, it always felt feminizing or infantilizing, like you said about the "soft boy" archetype. I genuinely worried I'd just have to live with the fact that I was always gonna be seen as a big ol' sissy, which was kinda damaging. Thank you for mansplaining my masculinity to me lmao
Thinking about it, Superman actually kinda does represent the struggles of men in comparison to other humans, of course with Superman being in comparison to men. Superman is stronger than everyone else, and knows the damage he can cause, and thus tries to contain himself and only use his advantages for good, all while feeling alien because of his physical traits. Sounds a lot like most men to me.
I'm a cis guy but this was legit a very new and interesting perspective! Keep up the good work, my man!
I'd imagine if you were a guy you wouldn't call yourself cis.
@@dongiovanni-m3i I'd imagine if you were an intelligent person you wouldn't have said... well, that entire comment, since literally nothing about your pathetic attempt at an insult has even a single brain cell's worth of intelligence in it. That's a freezer temp IQ take.
Both my responses went down? I was wrong you are definitely a cis prob the embodiment of a cissy. Best of luck dude, seriously. Lol "I'm a cis guy."
Neo Torchwick
You actually managed to rub two brain cells together to come up with a response, I'd be impressed but the ability to comment doesn't mean you're intelligent.
Here's hoping bmblb is canon. 😉
@@dongiovanni-m3i Why is it that, every time you reply to my comments, it's less intelligent than your previous comment? I'm honestly kind of impressed.
Another example of a compassionate man that isn't a softboi: Brock from Pokemon.
His character isn't super sensitive, but his strength is used in a nurturing way (taking care of his siblings and Pokemon).
That is the idea of Rock-type Pokemon. They're not sensitive, but they use their thick, hard shells to benefit others.
Thank you for this! I'm a mom raising a cis boy (assuming, but he'll tell me if he determines differently) and his elder nonbinary sibling. Neither of them fit into the boxes society has prepared for them. I need a new masculinity in the world for their sakes.
Excellent video! I love your perspective on this, it's really important.
As a genderfluid person who was raised male but feels more like a girl most of the time, I loved your Superman example, I'm not a huge Superman fan but he is certainly a great role model.
For me the ideal of healthy masculinity was always Luke Skywalker, particularly at the end of RotJ where he throws his weapon away renouncing the cycle of violence that destroyed his father.
I think there's plenty of good role models for masculinity out there, they just haven't yet reached the same influence that older toxic ideas have, seemingly.
Anyways, loved this video and I look forward to hearing more from you in the future :)
"I had nightmares that the boy I had a crush on would want to have sex with me" WOAH. Thanks for sharing your perspective, it was thoughtful and powerful.
I like how this was an actual response, filling in what you saw (rightly) as blind spots. I'm a cis woman for context, big fan of Contra. I love hearing where our experiences overlap and differ. Thank you for your voice.
As a cis man, I've tried to define my unconventional masculinity as a coherent archetype many times, without putting myself into a box of performative characteristics. I'm so happy that you did a much better job of it than I ever could.
I wish you well on your transition, and I hope you continue making videos. As a DC fan myself, the best compliment I can give you is that you understand Superman's character far more than most of his current writers.
To be honest I disagree about most trans men transitioning because of discomfort with the female social role (which some do for that reason and are totally valid btw). For me, physical dysphoria (and in particular bottom dysphoria) was so much worse then social dysphoria could ever be. Whilst being gendered in the wrong way was awful and made me feel like I was living a lie, physically having the wrong body was (and still is) unbearable. I had to deal with bottom dysphoria my whole life, and my "natal" genitals disgust me to the point of physically feeling sick. Like I literally have to wear a Mr Limpy 24/7 or I'll go into panic mode.
Social dysphoria did play a huge part in me figuring out I'm trans, and I don't think I'd still be here had I not socially transitioned, but it was definitely not the main reason why I had to start my transition. To me, it boils down to not just how people should see me, but how I should have a male body.
It's like a demon thats inside of you from the moment you're born an it wakes up when you notice something's wrong.
@Feli Aslan I see what you mean. I don't really care if I'm seen as masculine or feminine, as long as people see me as a guy. The thing I'm most dysphoric about isn't something that could "give me away" as a trans guy, so it's much more physical then social (I used to get literal phantom limb's type of thing with my dick before I started packing 24/7). Pre- transition, I was super obsessed with proving how masculine and strong I am, but as soon as I started my transition, I no longer wish to "prove my strength" as my 13 year old self would say. I don't care if people think I'm a wuss, as long as they see me as male.
same
I think this is one of those things that varies a lot from trans person to trans person. For me, physical dysphoria exists, but I can ignore it a lot of the time, particularly when I'm home alone. What bothers me most is how people perceive me. That's what has made me finally break down and seek a testosterone prescription because I couldn't stand being treated as a woman day in and day out. The dissonance i feel between my self-perception and how others see me has become unbearable. I honestly feel like if people stopped gendering me or treating me as a woman, I would not feel the need to transition. But to be fair, I identify as nonbinary, so I definitely can't speak for trans men.
@@lees2404 yep, this 100%
Plz make more videos on your experience as a trans man. This was such a lovely video and I would love to see more from you.
I'm not transmasc, so I don't have anything to contribute on that front, but it's nice to see other trans voices coming up to complement Natalie's (and also to push back against her nonsense too, if I'm being honest).
Good as hell video, man. I'll share it around.
As a woman, I have never had to think about masculinity "like that". I mean, of course we all talk about men, but it is only in relation to what we'd like in a (singular) man or how masculinity affects us negatively. That's why I found the feminist discourse about the topic and your perspective as well highly interesting. I do think listening to other's perspectives is the first step to understanding and hopefully make men able to have their voices heard as well... I mean, men are shut down pretty fast, by men and women alike, when they are not conforming to masculinity. I just hope, that knowing they maybe aren't the only ones, that aren't super happy with how masculinity works right now, will make it possible for them to voice their concerns too.
Ok, language is broken today, I still haven't quite been able to say, what I want to say. What i want to say is: knowing you're not the only one with a problem will make it more likely that you open up about a problem.
...
I think that's what I was getting at.
Thank you thank you thank you, I can’t say it enough. Your videos resonate with me more than anything I’ve come across so far.
I’m currently questioning and reached a point where I was desperate for some kind of perspective that aligned with what I was going through. I have a hard time identifying with the majority of trans men/masculine people so finding your channel felt like coming home, in a sense. You are very well spoken, thorough, and thoughtful, and everything you say resonates deeply with me. You add a very important voice and perspective to the discussion. I appreciate and am very grateful for what you do.
Omg thank you for this. I was in therapy earlier today like, “what even is being a man without the toxic masculinity?” What am I trying to do here?!
Dude, holy shit. The way you put into words the kinds of experiences that are so familiar to my own individual situation just blew me away. There are so few trans men talking about trans issues publicly, and while ContraPoints was hugely influential for me, I also felt a pointed lack of consideration for people like me. While that isn't her fault or her responsibility per se, I'm so so so appreciative of you existing to pick up that slack and fill in those gaps. I've been out as a trans man for almost eight years now, but I still haven't taken that leap of starting hormones or getting my name changed because I keep expecting to "grow out of it." That I'll wake up one day and realize, oops, I'm just a lesbian in denial all along! It's so comforting to know that you're out there and you're willing to share your perspective. Thank you for this.
Thank you so much for making this! I hate to admit it didn't even cross my mind how important trans male voices could be to this discussion. The analogy of Superman is beautiful and really helped me see what parts of masculinity that I love. Hope to see more from you!
Just would like to say that I don't think anyone likes bleeding out of their genitals
Have to second this. And A LOT of women are terrified and uncomfortable about pregnancy. As a gender non conforming woman I was really hoping to gain an insight into how the trans male experience is different, but by this definition I'd be trans too! I am sure there is more to it though, so I'm really keen to watch more of these videos to see if these neuonces get elaborated on further. Some thoughtful stuff in there!
@@mandy3404 There is honestly a lot of overlap in the experiences of GNC women and trans afab people. I think many women and trans afab ppl struggle with the same challenges of unwanted sexual attention from men, expectations to fit a rigid gender role, pressure to be "beautiful," as well as the pains and discomforts of periods or risk of pregnancy. I think one major difference for trans people is an added layer of dissonance. One thing I noticed (as a nonbinary person) is that I have always been frustrated by microaggressions of being taken less seriously or being dismissed or treated as unreasonable bc I am seen as a woman--that's probably true of everyone raised in the female gender role. But one difference I noticed more recently, since I started the process of obtaining a testosterone prescription which has made my feelings of dysphoria a lot more acute as I wait on the treatment and reflect a lot on my gender, is that on top of those ordinary feelings of frustration I feel even MORE frustration and pain over the feeling that people aren't just mistreating me as a woman but seeing me as something I am not. It's like those "female experiences" clash with my internal sense of self. Now, in terms of the period issue, I don't have much to say because I personally am not triggered by my period and don't mind having one (and in fact, I was relieved when my doctor said low dose testosterone shouldn't affect my fertility or stop my period). So not all "gendered" aspects of the "female experience" cause dysphoria for trans people. But ultimately, the main difference in our experiences is that I want to live as a different gender, so many experiences of being the "female gender" feel incongruous with who I am.
@@mandy3404 unless brainwashed, nobody likes to be treated as inferior. This is why women are so keen on gay men, they're rejected by society as well and they feel they can bond with them. The person in the video seems to view transgender as rejecting your gender role and transitioning into the other (which means you have to pass as the other sex and so undergo medical transition). The dysphoria is social and it comes solely from the expectations forced upon them for being female/male. By transitioning they're basically saying females are like this and males are like that, instead of fighting gender roles and their own pain brang by them.
The difference between women and trans men (whether gnc or not) is simply physical dysphoria.
This video is the perfect example for why we need to have open discussions about any topic. No one person can cover all the experiences and view poins of whole communities. The more people share their experiences and views the better we can undestand complex topics. Thank you so much for this video, it was very insightful and kinda made me like Superman again.
+
How you laid out Batman and Superman as different perspective approaches blew my nerd mind. Amazing video ❤❤❤
I'm more into Batman than superman like I am more into metroid's samus Arran and link from the legend of Zelda
These characters display a sense of power be it, capabilities in strength, divine wisdom or courageous valor with the drive to pushback a endless tidal wave of disaster
You can be a police officer and take orders or be a masked vigilante fighting for justice heroism is not just a shade of paragon or a shade of rogue, you are a hero because you use your "power" to protect and uphold your responsibility.
Also, add Spider-Man to the list.
hey, i wanted to add in my two cents as a trans guy who came out ~12-13, and was very feminine as a kid. i wore a lot of dresses, watched a lot of princessy movies, shows, etc., and played with dolls. that said, as you can imagine, coming out i got a lot of the "it's a phase", "just be a lesbian" type of thing.
with that, i did have the smaller, mostly hygienic-centric signs that people overlooked. i wouldn't shower or change my clothes "often enough", i wouldn't brush my hair, i refused to wear bras, and didn't tell anyone i started my period for roughly six months after it started because something just felt wrong.
that said, i am also very much the reverse of him when you consider the fact that i was very much an "early bloomer". i was forced to start wearing bras around 8-9, yes forced, i only wore them when my mom would hold me down and put them on me (same with brushing my hair, i consistently refused). i started getting my period at 11.
so, as you can assume, we probably have very different experiences in general. though, i do agree that it was the social role that made me realize something was wrong, it was more-so a combination of the body and the social role i was forced into. to this day i still want to rip my hair out whenever i'm asked to help with cooking or cleaning whilst the cis men there are doing something entirely different. that said, i'm also still not out to most of my family, considering i'm a minor.
i don't think i've ever really experienced a male social role, because no one really sees me as male, so on that basis we're also very different. i have been absolutely sure for years that i'm a guy, i want to be seen as a guy, everything of that kind of field, but am not seen as a guy, and likely will not be in the forseeable future.
Sadly I cant say i feel like i have a contributing voice in this discussion as a cis male, but i can confidently say i have left this video with gaining a slightly more open mind/heart and a new found appreciation/admiration for Super man, :)
I'm so happy I found this video! Superman is in fact a great role model
is he? really? gotta watch the rest of the video but wanted to look at the comments first and. I don't know. I'm a gay dude and superman kinds of nah for me.
@@rotciv1486 Zack Snyder kinda messed up his characterization, I guess. There he's saving people out of duty, but he like... Doesn't seem to like them very much.
Clark Kent is usually perfect for stories you want to write about a perfect super human, both fiscally and morally. I think he's neat.
@@victorianeechan hmmm I. But he is not perfect. He is imperfect in that he is riddled with a superior complex due to his m the responsibility of how powers. The movies are bad, I think, because they wanted to be all gritty and that doesn't vibe with the whole "Ultimate boy scout" Ting
Some people take down what they don’t like. Some people build up what they like. The destroyers need the ideas generated from the creators, and the creators need the space cleared by the destroyers. You and Natalie are, I think, a perfect example of how this system functions. She illuminated and attacked many negatives of masculinity, and you used the space to breathe positivity into it. Great work.
Appreciate you! I just watched Natalie's video and it's set me searching for a new masculine ideal, something I've pondered often and loudly before. I was often uncomfortable with the tropes of masculinity,may even have grown up a softboi, but as I got older I saw there is SOME kind of role for the the innate, overall differences. Whatever the hell they are
Is there ever any one thing that "makes the difference" between a man, woman, nonbinary person, trans person, cis person, etc? Gendered categories have no transcendent or objective meaning, yet they are also overflowing with various alternative definitions challenging the mainstream ideals.
"I'm not a philosopher but... here is my amazingly awesome take that honestly the best."
Came for the Contra discourse, stayed for the Superman character analysis
I think what many people tend to forget is that Natalie makes most videos about gender based on her own experiences. She never came out and said she wanted to be a representative for all trans or NB people. That’s what others make it to be. Do you really want a MTF to speak from a FTM’s point of view? She’s a binary transwoman. Do you really want her to speak on behalf of non-binary people?
I think its also important that contra's video is not the full discussion. Further videos can be made on stuff like this. Open the discussion, dont fricken shut it down???? What's even the point of doing that?????????? Glad that there are people like you keeping the conversation civil and open.
I just really wish these ppl coming at Natalie with pitchforks would stop. Jfc.
I'm very glad I found your video. The last part got me good.
When I watched Contra's video, the way it ended tugged at my depression very unconfortably.
I was afraid that in this life I would not find an ideal of manhood to aspire to.
I know it sounds dramatic but it happened in the wake of a big break up in my relationship with my father, so I was very desilusioned with the role models presented to me.
The way you talked about Superman, about being someone that struggles with a sense of otherness, of being an outlier, but still goes out of his way to prevent harm whenever he can, that resonates a lot with me.
I want to be that.
Someone brave enough, strong enough, so that when I see someone in need, I can offer my hand without breaking myself, or somehow hurting the people I was out to help. It's fucking overwhelming how afraid of failure I got over the years.
So thanks for taking your time and sharing. You helped and inspired me.
Although I am a cis man, I do feel like I have a lot of issues trying to fit into "traditional male-roles." I really hate the idea of being ultra-masculine and trying to assert dominance, because my personality just doesn't match that. I really feel bad for trans-men because, not only are you trying to deal with transitioning, but you're transitioning into something that is traditionally very toxic. I appreciate your work in trying to redefine masculinity. God bless you, trans men of the world. Your efforts are appreciated.
Baby trans guy here. I've only been on testosterone for a bit over a month and I came out to people in my life earlier this year. I'm not sure how much wisdom I have to really add, but I can add my experience. Navigating a completely different social role has been comforting in some sense because I do feel at home in my skin now. Despite the comfort I feel, it's still incredibly confusing and makes me question myself daily. I obviously have a very different perspective than many men around me, but being different can cause me to be dysphoric socially about the way that I'm relating to other men. I find myself constantly swaying towards this toughness, callousness, and having less empathy for others when I'm trying to conform to the people around me. I obviously don't want to be this way. I do notice it a lot of trans masculine circles where trans men try to conform to what society thinks a man should be because being different then those men can create discomfort. I do agree with you with your conclusion, that the best way of creating the "ideal man" is breaking down those walls of the box. The walls can be very suffocating sometimes. Sometimes I just wanna yell "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD SO CUTE" when I see a bunny at work.
contra has never claimed to not respect anyone else’s experience. she believes strongly in letting other people speak for their own identities and i would rather her stick to that than try to speak for everyone’s experience and fail. her leaving your experience out gives you a platform to tell your own story.
We like to Disk Horse about The Algorithm, but it sure did me a solid when it threw this video my way. You have a really engaging and accessible linguistic style and a fun delivery of the material; what with lefty youtube getting so into the weeds with artistic flourish to their video essays, a relatively direct response video was super refreshing.
It's super important that your voice as a trans man is heard in this conversation and-- as a nonbinary individual who often struggles to express their own discomfort with The Box to conservative relatives-- I really appreciated hearing you articulate your own experience with the issue! I feel like I can better express my own Gender Stuff after hearing you talk about yours.
And as a small aside-- the Superman piece in the end was a lovely way to close out the essay. The clear passion and admiration for Clark Kent in your voice came close to making me cry. :')
Thank you so much for sharing all of this perspective - I really really appreciate it. I found this video illuminating and the way you expounded on your points was really engaging and made a lot of sense to me. I look forward to seeing more! thanks again! As a cis man, I found your explanation of what a new ideal of manhood should look like to be really inspiring to me on a personal level.
“There’s a chest bursted growing inside of your body appropriating your hard earned nutrients” 😂🙌
Edit: when this video first dropped, I left a comment that began “Not super my place as a cis girl, but I do want to share some thoughts about positive male identity” … a few years later and I am out as transmasculine, finally understanding why this video held my attention so intensely for so long. Thank you for helping crack my egg, Dylan.
This is super fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing your detailed experience about how you have experienced HRT. I think I am probably an "ordinary" cis woman but I have always been fascinated by the subtle differences in how we experience the influence of hormones.
Once I read that Batman is Bruce Wayne's disguise. Superman, in the opposite way, disguises himself as Clark Kent.
While I love the way this is written, unfortunately no, Batman's disguise is Bruce Wayne and the comics keep hammering that in again and again. He is super messed up and Batman is his true face. You can see for instance imgur.com/gallery/Ut7BD as example
fucking great! You had me at body rolls - Putting this on repeat for a bit
A lot of contrapoints videos come from personal experience so of course they are mostly going to be about mtf related topics I don't think its fair to ask someone who has no experience going from female to male to add it into their videos
+
THANK UUUUUUUU FOR SAYING IT
Yeah I agree
Yeah but at the same time making a video about men and masculinity and only mentioning cis men makes it feel... Kind of incomplete? I guess that she could have at the very least acknowledged that (still a contra stan tho)
i don't think that's very reasonable bc she sometimes mentions the experience of POC to better explain some points/arguments. i get that she will never make one video specifically about trans men, but she could at least have mentioned queer masculinity in general, it would contribute to the conversation. so i'm glad somebody else responded with a very elucidative video contributing to that conversation with another perspective
I absolutely love that this response is a real answer to 'what is the new ideal of manhood' and not 'what did Natalie say wrong.' Really fantastic video, love your work!
Thankyou, I have so much hope for transmen changing our perception of genderroles. We are at a point in feminism, where we have to work on the male role to developing more freedom.
I dont think it is a mistake, that Natalie is not talking about things she did not expirience. She is a wise Transwoman, not a transman or a transgod.
You transmen have to speak.
Much love from a feminist cis lesbian
I love the aesthetic you have of “drinking beer on the floor of my closet.” BASED
Honestly, mpreg fanfiction has been a helpful tool for reproductive dysphoria. The idea of a fully recognised male character straddling that gender line and experiencing the bearer burden really gave me something to grab onto.
Can you please make a full video essay about the Batman vs. Superman ideals? Cis-guy here, and I've always liked Batman way more than Superman for the reasons you listed, and I also know I've really, really, really internalized a shit ton of toxic ideals that make me hate myself for not living up to. I would love more thoughts on how to apply this comic book dichotemy to daily life with concrete examples. Awesome video; thank you.
I'm a big fan of Natalie but I really appreciate this perspective
As a feminine gay cis man who often gets misgendered as a they or a she (I still don't know which hurts more), both this AND Natalie's videos resonate with me. I feel like I can't assert my gender identity without seeming toxic, ie it can be hard to just say "I'm a man" without getting mixed up in the group of people making the exact same neutral statement in bad faith. I feel awkward every time I have to correct someone just because my hair is different from what most other cis men have. I feel like I do recieve about 1% of the type of oppression trans people face just because I don't look 100% one way or the other, even though I'm not non-binary.
Edit after reading other comments:
I still stand by Natalie's video from a cis perspective, but yes, it 100% definitely needed a trans man's perspective, and more organization, there were a few parts that were confusing to me too
This video was absolutely wondeful Imo! The question of daring to stop outside the box is something Ive been dealing with myself (Im questioning if I'm agender) and to see you so openly encourage people to that, and show us your personal interpretation of masculinity for instance, has encouraged me to step further away from my own box of femininity.
Bless you
also, might I add , you have a very soothing voice
I was not expecting to walk away from this with a deep appreciation for clark kent but here we are! Thank you for your insights.
I love this! I’ve honestly kind of been waiting for the day when more trans guys would start speaking up that Contra’s videos largely gloss over them (or people like me, an afab nonbinary lesbian who presents masc). She shuts us out of the discourse with jokes but it’s still dismissive - I’m thinking in particular of her line in ‘Beauty’ when she was like ‘maybe lesbians are just straight chilling while all the rest of us have lost our minds.’ For me, lines like that (which do pop up often) show that there are certain afab perspectives that she’s written off as out of her lane even though we offer some of the missing pieces to the conversation. Similar to your point about ‘gender critical’ and trans man, TERFs specifically target young gender nonconforming lesbians and afab people with dysphoria - they recruit from a very specific pool and Natalie didn’t address this at all. I’m probably getting off-topic, but I wish there were more transmasc people on youtube with larger audiences since the bigger ‘breadtube’ people aren’t really great allies to transmasc/nb/gnc women.
ContraPoints fan here, I’m loving this take. I left a comment criticizing her lack of understanding masc non-binary and transmen. Keep up the good work!
The mythopoetic men's movement of the late 70s through early 90s has some useful insights. Fun fact, they're the ones who invented a term called "toxic masculinity"
Also, transcending the box of signifiers is not about finding a new role to fill... It's about discovering who we are inherently. Playing a role is an issue, regardless of the role
This video was funny and thoughtful. Thanks for sharing it! Also, I liked your analogy at the end. It's a really interesting perspective.
After all of the Discourse surrounding Contrapoints over the last few months, coming across this response entirely by happenstance was just unbelievably refreshing.
When you compared being pregnant to having a chest-burster inside of you I died. As a trans man and a fan of the Alien franchise I related to that so much.
Subscribed. :)
As a 25-year old cis woman, this analogy hit close to home. I've always compared birth to an alien chest-burster. It's friggin' terrifying :(
I’ve always likened them to each other
Thank you for the insight.
You have my like, my comment for algorithm, and my tears.
I was thinking back to this video when I realized my male role model is Lt. Columbo.
He’s the poster child for non toxic masculinity. Profoundly good, patient, messy, kind, always making people feel heard and understood whilst quietly going about his own way. He only loses temper in the face of despicable obtuse people actively harming others. But otherwise he’s just incredibly smart AND kind, a combo not many fictional characters embody.
You are so right. Although those qualities are not the property of any gender, he is a male role model to look up to, especially in comparison to the 1970s - 1980s male characters in the rest of the show. Even putting aside that they were murderers, most were callous, conceited and hyper-macho.
Love this! Superman is a great model!
Prior to my transition, I was actually pretty comfortable with my male role. You learn to play by jostling for position. You invent things to jostle for because it's fun. I remember telling a trans guy that early in my life I had to learn to "man up." I don't think those are necessarily bad things. I didn't feel like my attitudes were toxic. But I was also tempered in a lot of ways most trans women are prior to transition, I wasn't particularly drawn to aggressive displays of strength. I wasn't drawn to Batman. Honestly my guy was from the other universe, Spider-Man, because he was basically Superman but with less powers, so his struggle was harder. And in the midst of it, he always had a witty quip for his antagonist. (For what it's worth, I don't think there current MCU Spider-Man write captures the Spider-Man I feel in love with in comic books as a kid.)
Really great point about Natalie missing trans men. Natalie almost always articulates exactly how I feel, and I'm ashamed to say that I didn't notice the exclusion of the trans masculine perspective in that video. It's glaring when you point it out though. This is a really valuable contribution to the conversation!
Thinking about it, Superman is a pretty good metaphor for men in general. Naturally stronger, feeling alien for his potential, trying his best to do good in any way he can, ashamed when he ends up hurting someone. Superman is just that way in comparison to men, while men are that way in comparison to the rest of humanity.
I appreciated your perspective. Let's get this ball rolling! I'm excited to hear new ideas of identity coming from all kinds of different men.
Thanks for giving me some new perspective. On both masculinity AND Superman. Finding this in my recommended was a very interesting way of ending my latest yt spree. I'll be sure to check out your more recent videos!
Your Batman/Superman analogy was so wonderful I wanna put it on tshirts, stickers, everything
i've been a long time fan of contrapoints but the complete lack of information on transmen has always been a sore spot for me, im happy to see expansion on the conversation instead of just having her chased out of the room
i'm even more grateful to go thru your channel and see a perspective of trans life that i can really relate to sorry if im repeating myself
thanks for making your videos ;u;
Great video, thank you!
I know Contrapoints has expressed reticence about speaking for groups she doesn’t belong to (why she avoided the NB perspective for so long), and this measure of respect sometimes limits her scope. She’s probably aware of the problem, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she talks more about trans men in the future.
whoa. apart from being a fantastic contribution to the discussion, this was very personally eye-opening for me. when you said that you had nightmares about your crush wanting to have sex with you, something just clicked. i had similar issues towards sex my whole life and had no idea it was dysphoria. this gave me a lot of insight into myself and it looks like i have a lot of reflecting to do! thank you
Cisguy here, your superman conclusion made me cry. I just subbed and I don't know whether you have expanded on that thought, but I really think you're on to something there. Hope to see more of your content, cheers dude!
Thank you so much for talking about this! I've been questioning whether I'm nonbinary or a trans man and I've been struggling with how I would fit into a male social role and what healthy masculinity looks like.
I like being a woman but the way you describe how you felt in puberty resonates with me so much. I still have those feelings, especially when men look at me in a sexual way Dx
Speaking as a fan of Contrapoints, this is the kind of response that deserves to heard. You definitely gave me a new view of Superman.
I'm glad I came across this video.
Natalie's video made me think a lot about what being a cis man meant to me and the ways I expressed it. Anyway I came out as Nonbinary like a week later.
Because on the one hand I can't stand most of masculinity. My male social groups always seem to have a heirarchy and everyone feels the need to one-up eachother. It drives me mad.
But on the other hand I don't think anything I am or do is strictly outside the box. Basically I'll be right here when they realise they need to build a bigger box.
I've had similar struggles as someone who is genderfluid, since overall I think I would be happier with myself if I transitioned to present much more masculine. but, there's another part of me that hesitates, bc being read as a man socially has a lot of baggage that comes with it. Even when I first realized that I was sometimes a guy, I struggled a bit with that bc I didn't know what that meant for me exactly.
I am also genderfluid and a strident feminist so i can relate to this. I just want to say to not be afraid to explore your gender or transition options. I'm in the process of getting a testosterone prescription and thinking about what it will mean to be read as male more frequently. It's not easy to navigate all this stuff when you're coming at masculinity from a feminist pov. I honestly have a LOT of rage toward men. Like A LOT. I am by all accounts a manhating feminist. But I already separate that anger toward men as an oppressive social class from my experiences with individual men who aren't furthering misogyny. So I figure if I can do that for individual men I know and enjoy being friends with, I can do that for myself. It's just going to take some time and effort. There's also the fact that we as nonbinary people are uniquely positioned to challenge certain gender norms and ideas. By openly existing, we undermine the idea that men and women are these binary immutable categories.
"I think, to define a new masculinity, we need to break the taboo that's associated with leaving the box, reduce the shame associated with vulnerability, reduce the antagonism that comes when you wear clothes from the wrong side of the store... reduce the urge to become a master and introduce a more egalitarian idea of leadership."
Fuck, man, nail on head. I'm a cis guy who's lucky enough to have avoided a lot of toxic masculinity, and my warmest and best male relationships have all these aspects. You articulate yourself extremely well. I subscribed two minutes in.
Thank you! I'm a trans man to. I greatly enjoyed hearing you describe coming into a female gender role in adolescence both in expectations and physicality--I relate to so much of it. I love Natalie's point that men need to imagine positive masculinities - it makes sense in the context of the white cis male attracted to alt right group of men that she was talking about. But wow she missed out by not including transmaskuline and nonbinary perspectives. Thanks again 💜
There is a garment directly behind his head that moves consistently and I thought he was wearing a tall hat.
That is my contribution to The Discourse.
Awesome to see a trans male perspective on this topic
Thank you very much for this video response. I love Natalie, and as a cis man, her video "men" touched me deeply. Yes: it lacked the perspective of trans men, but I think that she is aware that she cannot represent properly something outside her experiece. She was socialized as a man, and then transitioned, so this is her own experience. I hope that more and more trans men like you will share their experiences to fill the gaps in many people understanding of gender experiences. Thank you again, and a big hug from Italy (sorry if I made some mistake with English!).
Thank you! Fellow second-puberty person here :) I really need to hear more transmasculine stories and perspectives like this. Femininity has been such a source of good for me, BUT I didn't get the early conditioning you did that very well might have made me feel much more mixed.
It's also good to hear how things that were dysphoric for me bring joy to someone else.
So many finger snaps in this video. So fucking articulate! 💥💥💥 and btw Clark is an awesome middle name! I had never heard this take on Superman before. Well done bro :D
I'm one year on T and I can relate so much to your story. The story of Superman was never one I considered due just being rather avoidant of those stories, but the lesson is definitely one we can all learn from!
Goddamn this video is so high quality it makes me angry that it has only 17K views.
I'm mtf, and a fan of Contra. And I'm not gonna lie - I didn't even think of trans men when watching her video.
Thanks for the perspective. I always like hearing ftm people, because its nice hearing things resonating from the opposite direction.
Keep being super.