Back in the 70's with our 340's we ran 34 degrees street or strip. Didn't seem to matter. We took a factory 340 dual point and brazed up the slots some per Mopar racing manuals. Put the super soft advance springs in and set total at 34 degrees. That gave us around 14 degrees initial. My brother's stock 340 70 Dart Swinger ran 13.50's with headers only. My Super Stocker ran 11.50s at 120mph. Gas was better back then too but we didn't have any E85 like the guys have today. What worked then still works today! Keep up the good videos for the new generation of racers!😀
Had no idea about the spark plug being able to show timing... simply facinating stuff. Again how you don't have 100k subs is beyond me. Keep up the lord's work friend!
Reading the plugs gave me flashbacks of the "old timers" teaching me in my younger years!! I remember the racer types always saying "who cares about initial as long as it runs, its total that matters!!" My 440 68 Dart needed constant fiddling to adapt to conditions, especially temps at the track. With light springs and half filled slots, itd usually have all 36° in by about 2800, but it was usually an "ear tune", pushing it to just short of detonation. I was able to get a few more degrees by replacing the thermostat with a homemade "restrictor" that kept her cooler, along with icing the intake between rounds. Of course winter daily duties saw a regular t-stat go back in...
Definitely right about total timing but initial timing important for good idle, pleasant driveability, quick throttle response, and cool running engine.
Awesome video! Man your just a wealth if knowledge. I don't quite understand the notches and the welding of the notches just yet but I will go back and re-watch this a few hundred times lol
I wish I understood this total timing stuff better, I’m not confident enough to do it, I am porting stock heads on a 318 and putting headers and a new intake and carb on it, you’re video helps me understand a lot more than I knew before though, thank you for taking the time to make it, I’ll keep doing my homework until I figure it out enough to get the confidence to actually try it out
Just curious, and I’ve heard this before but, why is it that you want to weld on the inside of the slots and not the outside to decrease the range of advance? Also, to check for the best total advance, could a guy make runs at the track and add a couple degrees each run and see improvements in mph until the mph levels off, then go back to the previous setting to be on the safe side? I ask because I’m just starting to play with my stock D100 318 2bbl. Anyway, love the videos and always impressed with your cars and ETs. I’m sure DT won’t disappoint either!
Thanks for a watching! Great Questions, I'll answer in order. You want to weld the inside because when the weights are all the way flung out, the rotor is pointing directly at the terminal. Yes, I get it close on the street, and fine tune at the track. I really watch the MPH throughout.
Oh, no, not again. I just had a disagreement on the very subject of the centrifugal advance changing the rotor phasing. I say it does NOT. The vacuum advance DOES change it, though. I'm not sure what the advantage would be between welding on the inside compared to the outside of the slots except for maybe helping to keep the weights from extending at idle speed when using very light advance springs.
Great explanation and I'm with you i just don't want average, i want all of the powahhhhHhh!!!!!! 😁 and im going to get it all out my lil 347 pinto 💪🏼😁🚙💨💨💨💨💨💨💨👹
BTW I just got my first timing tool in the mail yesterday, I've found your channel and another, just trying to make sense of all the info, just waiting for this snow storm to pass
You can try it, but watch it because you'll get your total timing quicker and if you are running a vacuum advance, you may get too much timing too fast and get clatter (detonation).
My opinion, do it. Actually, use even a lighter spring or pair of springs. Try one spring only with enough tension to keep weights retracted at idle speed to approx 1000 rpm or so. If you get any audible gas ping (I doubt it if using stock pistons/compression ratio) add second spring. Try that without vacuum advance hooked up. Vacuum advance may not work well with such aggressive timing curve. If that works good for you (and I believe it will) try with vacuum advance hooked up. If added vacuum advance doesn't work well in that configuration just don't use it. If not using vacuum advance you can just leave hose off and cap at vacuum source or use hose with a blocked restriction inside to look factory "unhacked". I've always had my best results with total timing all in at 2000 rpm or so and a total of approx 36° with 318 & 360 (LA) engines. I don't have experience with Magnum engines but I think results would be similar.
Dont use a dial back timing light, everyone I have ever used big name ones to HF freight ones are always of by 4 to 8 deg ..do the tape or like 318 did with harmonic balancer
installing a new distributor on a 1973 b200 with a 360 small block. Did you remove the grill/radiator to access the crank shaft bolt when finding TDC or were you able to get in there with everything assembled?
I've still no idea how to set total on a simple 305..what if it's way off how do I know then do i change springs or use an Allen wrench at the advance. Don't you leave the vac advance plugged into the vac canister to check total timing?
Ref spark plug and total timing. If the total mark is closer to the threaded portion than 1 /8, do I adjust the fbo plate for 2 degree higher or try higher initial? It's at 18 intial with Fbo set at 14. Intial was set with vacuum guage. It was 20 at highest but l backed of two inches of mercury, using 94 octane. Just to be safe.
I would say if you have initial set, then set the FBO plate. But remember, reading the plug is just "another" tool used in tuning the car. Make sure the car sounds and feels "clean and right" also.
The ÒEM recommends Champion N11Y, that is superseded by N11YC ref plug for 360LA. If l run NGKs, with 98 octane do l use a colder plug to prevent knock or use the equivalent BP5ES?
@@318willrun I have a 1987 3/4 ton Sno Commander pickup truck I bought it off the original owner. He ordered the truck from Scranton Dodge Pennsylvania with a Dana 60 in the front and a Dana 60 in the back with a 205 transfer case. The front rear has the big locking hubs on the VIN number it says Mission exempt Federal truck it also has a dual pickup distributor. I'd like to pick your brain. Is the truck a military truck, is the truck rare? I have a hard time finding info out about it.
@@marcoceccarelli6415 I'd say it sounds rare. Also sounds like a military package or forest ranger package. I'm sorry, I'm not overly familiar with those. Sno Commanders have been around for a while, but not all that common. Sounds like a really cool truck, though !
I think you did your videos backwards. Should have done total first, then find your best initial, then mod the distributor for the difference. The 4sec plates are great. Only problem is taking off the top to change it. And curve springs should bring the total in as fast as your driver will accept it. My opinion. And i find it hard to believe your 318 likes 40* total. Total is usually determined by flame spread. And less with a smaller bore. But my opinion. You got the channel.
So update and question on total timing, I’m almost done with my 318 head porting then she goes back together, I’ve got my damper marked and ready, let’s say I weld the holes or use fbo plate, set to say 15 degrees just for ballpark, do I count the 15 degrees as part of the total timing? So say 15+17=32? Adding only 17 degrees to the 15 or do I weld it at 15 then set it to say 32 on the damper, of course making adjustments as needed for best performance, I think I’m close to understanding this 🤣
If I understand correctly, the 15* will be initial timing, and then the mechanical advancement will allow 17 more degrees making 32 total ? If so, sounds about right.
You don't weld the slots on the inside, you weld the slots on the outside, you do not want any preload on the spring, if you put preload it's going to start the advanced way too late. I've been doing these for years ideally On A Street car you'd like to have all of your timing it at around 2000 RPM, on the race car we lock out the distributor and set it for total only.
Respectfully, I will disagree. Also, you can do something for years and still do it wrong. The reason for doing it the way I explained is because of phasing. The rotor does not point at the cap terminal dead on until the mechanical advancement is fully advanced. You control the speed of the advancement by springs, not by where the slot is welded. You want the rotor to point dead center on the cap terminal so you weld the inside of the slots.
@@318willrun no sir you limit the travel of the weights at the end not at the beginning, even the plates you buy from FBO also limit travel at the end by welding up the slots in the beginning it takes a lot more RPM to get the event started, as far as phasing goes it's a non-issue. As far as doing something and doing it wrong for years I'm merely following the original engineering that Chrysler set forth when you look at the difference Distributors with different slot lengths they all start at the same place and finish at different places, so pay attention and you'll learn something
@@steve6992 I was addressing that when people say "they've done it for years" as if that makes it conclusive, it does not. LOL We'll agree to disagree. I used the FBO plate and it blocks the inside of the slots (closest to the shaft), at least mine did. You did not address how you address phasing ??? Because your way doesn't address it. You will continue to do it your way and I'll continue to do it mine! Good luck 👍
@@318willrun I just do it the way Chrysler did it, some had a longer curve and some had a shorter depending upon the vehicle and engine package, I'm merely mimic what Chrysler did, when I'm done recruiting a distributor I will have 15 to 20 degrees initial it depends of course how long I leave the slot and the secondary spring never engages, and I leave the spring in there. The next time you have a few Distributors apart as you know they're stamped to let you know how much Advance is in the slots, set them side-by-side and just compare them and you will see that they start in the same place but finish at different places
@@steve6992 That's cool. And I'll close and be out with this: cut the top of the cap off so that you can see where the cap terminal is and where the rotor is facing when fully advanced. If you got it pointing directly at the cap terminal, then all is well ! Thanks !
Back in the 70's with our 340's we ran 34 degrees street or strip. Didn't seem to matter. We took a factory 340 dual point and brazed up the slots some per Mopar racing manuals. Put the super soft advance springs in and set total at 34 degrees. That gave us around 14 degrees initial. My brother's stock 340 70 Dart Swinger ran 13.50's with headers only. My Super Stocker ran 11.50s at 120mph. Gas was better back then too but we didn't have any E85 like the guys have today. What worked then still works today! Keep up the good videos for the new generation of racers!😀
Had no idea about the spark plug being able to show timing... simply facinating stuff. Again how you don't have 100k subs is beyond me. Keep up the lord's work friend!
Reading the plugs gave me flashbacks of the "old timers" teaching me in my younger years!! I remember the racer types always saying "who cares about initial as long as it runs, its total that matters!!" My 440 68 Dart needed constant fiddling to adapt to conditions, especially temps at the track. With light springs and half filled slots, itd usually have all 36° in by about 2800, but it was usually an "ear tune", pushing it to just short of detonation. I was able to get a few more degrees by replacing the thermostat with a homemade "restrictor" that kept her cooler, along with icing the intake between rounds. Of course winter daily duties saw a regular t-stat go back in...
Definitely right about total timing but initial timing important for good idle, pleasant driveability, quick throttle response, and cool running engine.
Great, thanks for getting back to this so quickly.
Awesome video! Man your just a wealth if knowledge. I don't quite understand the notches and the welding of the notches just yet but I will go back and re-watch this a few hundred times lol
Get the FBO limiter plate and then you will understand about the "notches" and won't have to worry about welding anything.
I wish I understood this total timing stuff better, I’m not confident enough to do it, I am porting stock heads on a 318 and putting headers and a new intake and carb on it, you’re video helps me understand a lot more than I knew before though, thank you for taking the time to make it, I’ll keep doing my homework until I figure it out enough to get the confidence to actually try it out
best advice I can give is "try it". You'll surprise yourself at what you can do
Thanks😎😎😎 I will definitely give it a try
Advance till it pings @ WOT.
Then back off.
Then there is always better gas!
Just got a 73 sportsman with a 360 4 speed manual. Great channel 👍
wow, 4 speed in the '73 .... Awesome !!!
Nice video, clear explanation for those whom didn't know.
Very good video my brother you would be an excellent instructor
I appreciate that !
Great video! Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this!
Hope you all are doing good down there
Thank you for this great video.. I think this will solve my problem. 👍
Just curious, and I’ve heard this before but, why is it that you want to weld on the inside of the slots and not the outside to decrease the range of advance? Also, to check for the best total advance, could a guy make runs at the track and add a couple degrees each run and see improvements in mph until the mph levels off, then go back to the previous setting to be on the safe side? I ask because I’m just starting to play with my stock D100 318 2bbl. Anyway, love the videos and always impressed with your cars and ETs. I’m sure DT won’t disappoint either!
Thanks for a watching! Great Questions, I'll answer in order. You want to weld the inside because when the weights are all the way flung out, the rotor is pointing directly at the terminal. Yes, I get it close on the street, and fine tune at the track. I really watch the MPH throughout.
@@318willrun Oh! So it’s a rotor ‘Phasing’ thing. Ok that makes sense. Thanks!
Oh, no, not again. I just had a disagreement on the very subject of the centrifugal advance changing the rotor phasing. I say it does NOT. The vacuum advance DOES change it, though. I'm not sure what the advantage would be between welding on the inside compared to the outside of the slots except for maybe helping to keep the weights from extending at idle speed when using very light advance springs.
Great explanation and I'm with you i just don't want average, i want all of the powahhhhHhh!!!!!! 😁 and im going to get it all out my lil 347 pinto 💪🏼😁🚙💨💨💨💨💨💨💨👹
What do you think about popping out the larger spring in the distributor to start?
BTW I just got my first timing tool in the mail yesterday, I've found your channel and another, just trying to make sense of all the info, just waiting for this snow storm to pass
You can try it, but watch it because you'll get your total timing quicker and if you are running a vacuum advance, you may get too much timing too fast and get clatter (detonation).
My opinion, do it. Actually, use even a lighter spring or pair of springs. Try one spring only with enough tension to keep weights retracted at idle speed to approx 1000 rpm or so. If you get any audible gas ping (I doubt it if using stock pistons/compression ratio) add second spring. Try that without vacuum advance hooked up. Vacuum advance may not work well with such aggressive timing curve. If that works good for you (and I believe it will) try with vacuum advance hooked up. If added vacuum advance doesn't work well in that configuration just don't use it. If not using vacuum advance you can just leave hose off and cap at vacuum source or use hose with a blocked restriction inside to look factory "unhacked". I've always had my best results with total timing all in at 2000 rpm or so and a total of approx 36° with 318 & 360 (LA) engines. I don't have experience with Magnum engines but I think results would be similar.
Dont use a dial back timing light, everyone I have ever used big name ones to HF freight ones are always of by 4 to 8 deg ..do the tape or like 318 did with harmonic balancer
Use a digital. Not one w a knob.
- always wrong.
installing a new distributor on a 1973 b200 with a 360 small block. Did you remove the grill/radiator to access the crank shaft bolt when finding TDC or were you able to get in there with everything assembled?
Got there with everything assembled
I've still no idea how to set total on a simple 305..what if it's way off how do I know then do i change springs or use an Allen wrench at the advance. Don't you leave the vac advance plugged into the vac canister to check total timing?
No, when setting intial or total, leave the vacuum advance unplugged.
Ref spark plug and total timing. If the total mark is closer to the threaded portion than 1 /8, do I adjust the fbo plate for 2 degree higher or try higher initial? It's at 18 intial with Fbo set at 14. Intial was set with vacuum guage. It was 20 at highest but l backed of two inches of mercury, using 94 octane. Just to be safe.
I would say if you have initial set, then set the FBO plate. But remember, reading the plug is just "another" tool used in tuning the car. Make sure the car sounds and feels "clean and right" also.
The ÒEM recommends Champion N11Y, that is superseded by N11YC ref plug for 360LA. If l run NGKs, with 98 octane do l use a colder plug to prevent knock or use the equivalent BP5ES?
You did a good job making this video
Thank you so much !!
@@318willrun I have a 1987 3/4 ton Sno Commander pickup truck I bought it off the original owner. He ordered the truck from Scranton Dodge Pennsylvania with a Dana 60 in the front and a Dana 60 in the back with a 205 transfer case. The front rear has the big locking hubs on the VIN number it says Mission exempt Federal truck it also has a dual pickup distributor. I'd like to pick your brain. Is the truck a military truck, is the truck rare? I have a hard time finding info out about it.
@@marcoceccarelli6415 I'd say it sounds rare. Also sounds like a military package or forest ranger package. I'm sorry, I'm not overly familiar with those. Sno Commanders have been around for a while, but not all that common. Sounds like a really cool truck, though !
All timing in by stall speed?
Timing back off is for easy hot start.
On dar money man thumbs up
I just noticed you have aluminum heads on this motor. What are they off of.\ ?
Speedmaster heads. Bought them on sale 40% off.
I think you did your videos backwards.
Should have done total first, then find your best initial,
then mod the distributor for the difference.
The 4sec plates are great. Only problem is taking off the top to change it.
And curve springs should bring the total in as fast as your driver will accept it.
My opinion.
And i find it hard to believe your 318 likes 40* total.
Total is usually determined by flame spread. And less with a smaller bore.
But my opinion. You got the channel.
Having a channel doesn't make a fella right.. LOL.
You got it, Tom. Right on.
If I had seen your comment earlier I wouldn't have had to babble on with mine- haha.
Your always tuning.
Thank you
Still jealous of your heads lol, nicely explained video tho, well done!
Are y'all in AZ?
No sir. NW corner of IL
So update and question on total timing, I’m almost done with my 318 head porting then she goes back together, I’ve got my damper marked and ready, let’s say I weld the holes or use fbo plate, set to say 15 degrees just for ballpark, do I count the 15 degrees as part of the total timing? So say 15+17=32? Adding only 17 degrees to the 15 or do I weld it at 15 then set it to say 32 on the damper, of course making adjustments as needed for best performance, I think I’m close to understanding this 🤣
If I understand correctly, the 15* will be initial timing, and then the mechanical advancement will allow 17 more degrees making 32 total ? If so, sounds about right.
Ok perfect thanks that’s exactly what I was thinking 🤔 now I understand
You don't weld the slots on the inside, you weld the slots on the outside, you do not want any preload on the spring, if you put preload it's going to start the advanced way too late. I've been doing these for years ideally On A Street car you'd like to have all of your timing it at around 2000 RPM, on the race car we lock out the distributor and set it for total only.
Respectfully, I will disagree. Also, you can do something for years and still do it wrong. The reason for doing it the way I explained is because of phasing. The rotor does not point at the cap terminal dead on until the mechanical advancement is fully advanced. You control the speed of the advancement by springs, not by where the slot is welded. You want the rotor to point dead center on the cap terminal so you weld the inside of the slots.
@@318willrun no sir you limit the travel of the weights at the end not at the beginning, even the plates you buy from FBO also limit travel at the end by welding up the slots in the beginning it takes a lot more RPM to get the event started, as far as phasing goes it's a non-issue.
As far as doing something and doing it wrong for years I'm merely following the original engineering that Chrysler set forth when you look at the difference Distributors with different slot lengths they all start at the same place and finish at different places, so pay attention and you'll learn something
@@steve6992 I was addressing that when people say "they've done it for years" as if that makes it conclusive, it does not. LOL We'll agree to disagree. I used the FBO plate and it blocks the inside of the slots (closest to the shaft), at least mine did. You did not address how you address phasing ??? Because your way doesn't address it. You will continue to do it your way and I'll continue to do it mine! Good luck 👍
@@318willrun I just do it the way Chrysler did it, some had a longer curve and some had a shorter depending upon the vehicle and engine package, I'm merely mimic what Chrysler did, when I'm done recruiting a distributor I will have 15 to 20 degrees initial it depends of course how long I leave the slot and the secondary spring never engages, and I leave the spring in there. The next time you have a few Distributors apart as you know they're stamped to let you know how much Advance is in the slots, set them side-by-side and just compare them and you will see that they start in the same place but finish at different places
@@steve6992 That's cool. And I'll close and be out with this: cut the top of the cap off so that you can see where the cap terminal is and where the rotor is facing when fully advanced. If you got it pointing directly at the cap terminal, then all is well ! Thanks !
26..
I've got high out put 360
I'd love to know who that one unlike is!
Family member or friend I'm sure...... LOL
Nu sub thanks to Jed….. Mopar or no car 👍👍👍👍👍✅✅✅✅✅
Glad you're here !!
First!
S