Season 2 Tier List Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- I'd say it's all pretty close
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#automattock #jibbo #streetfighter #fightinggames
#Ryu #Ken #ChunLi #Guile #Cammy #Dhalsim #Zangief #EHonda #Blanka #MBison #Akuma #Juri #Luke #Rashid #Ed #manon #jamie #kimberly - บันเทิง
ain't nothing like a chicken enchilada w salsa verde w a side of rice and beans. You throw some fresh avocado on it? C'mon now mannnnn STOP PLAYING
??? 🤔
Totally dude 😂
Absolute S tier is salsa verde
Salsa verde can even save the MRE Vomelet
Your Ken downplay is S tier salsa marrón
Putting Lily above Ryu and M Bison is some of the biggest glazing I’ve ever seen. Elchakotay winning combo breaker really changed her narrative I guess. She also got arguably nerfed with the light scaling nerfs. I agree all characters are good, SF6 is probably the best balanced Street Fighter they’ve ever done, but there’s still massive differences between characters like Lily who needs drive reversal, or a buff to combo from lights, vs Ryu who doesn’t.
Bison is new and I'm not at all sure why you're surprised by Ryu, they've been at least near each other in lots of lists.
Manon is a defensive character in an offensive game. She really feels like she’s playing a different game then the rest of the cast at times. It’s pretty rough. Once you get to Master with her you really are like meh why bother.
Like playing street fighter 5 grappler almost.
@@han3wmanwukong125 she really does just feel out of place the more and more I play her. I tried playing her vs Akuma to understand that match up since I stopped playing after I hit master before all the patch updates but dear god is that match up just not fun. I’d rather play vs guile.
For some reason, I have a big problem fighting against her. Maybe it is mental. She gives me problems.
@@AllFlashNoDash honestly it’s probably because you don’t get to play against enough Manons I’d imagine. Or at least enough good Manons and maybe falling for gimmics but a good Manon’s fundamentals are going to be hella tight but depending on who you main it may not even matter, especially if your character is oppressive.
@bqing87 I play Ryu. When I was using Ken she wasn't a problem. Ken can get to her in an instant. Bur you're right, I don't get to play against her too often.
Bison has a whole lot of offense. What the everyone has is drive parry. The sad truth is, if the opponent is willing to take the throw is it worth risking getting perfect parried with no reversals? I have a bunch of from traps and meaty setups. Legit 2 touch kill practical setups. All lose to drive parry because its a guaranteed perfect parry. I have one setup to counter that but its extremely hard to time the delayed button and still be plus because of the frame window to perfect parry.
As a Diamond 1 scrub, I think I mostly agree with this list, though I'd probably put Ken up with Cammy since I think they both embody the "5-way mental stack just by existing" phenomenon. I also think Ryu should be above Gief/Lily since he just seems like he shreds your drive gauge in a similar way but isn't helpless/linear at longer ranges due to Denjin Charge and his usual fireball/uppercut stuff. Gief is playable, not S-tier as some people seem to imply.
I'm very unsure about the "specialist nonsense" characters like Blanka, Ed, JP, and AKI. They all seem very good (AKI is perhaps the strongest) but I never get to learn the matchup since nobody plays them.
what song is that at 24:17?
Ninja Gaiden II (NES) - Act III Part 2
@@shadesbelow Thanks! It's been decades since I played that game and I couldn't quite remember
Thank you being honest about Bison, he’s good but has clear weaknesses, I’ve seen some people going crazy on Twitter saying he’s top 1.
If akuma makes 1 mistake against bison on second round its over
Kakeru destroyed TS akuma 5-3
@eatdahl -
Destroyed? It was so close that there was literally nothing in it, and it could have gone either way.
@@GramdalfFGC people not used to using psycho crusher as an anti air it stops everything. I haven’t seen it lose to any jumping attack at all. It’s actually ridiculous.
@@lifebykainit loses to things.
Man, from all of tier lists (especially Japanese one. Good example is Nemo with his hatred to Gief. Live your life, goddamit. Find a girlfriend!), this arguably the best tierlist, with the most well argumented explanations behind every single one of the character. And thank God, at least somebody said the smart things about Zangief buffs, though as a Zangief player I would probably go even further and say, that none of his existent problems from S1 has been resolved. Some of them partially, but not completely.
And you actually the first person who really speaks wise things about Ryu. The only problem that he has, is the fact that nobody plays him on the very high level. If there would be more of him on the top level, with probably the highest damage between the shotos (hell, he got even bigger damage then season 1 Luke) and with all buffs he got, I think he would land somewhere in top 10 for sure.
Thank you!
When you say Jamie can't walk back and bait a throw after sweep in the corner, do you mean if the opponent does an immediate throw tech in place of a delayed one?
Great vid!
I think Jamie can’t walk out if he sweep and drink, but he can if sweep with no drink. (Isn’t sweep+drink +0 on hit? I should check)
@@malcovich_games sweep into drink is +4. He can walk back if the throw tech is delayed to frame 5 or slower. But if the throw tech is 0-3 frames delay it loses to 5MP
Whats ur button placements on hit box
Default, pinky on drive impact, parry below it but I never use it
I love Jamie, but his drink mechanic is always going to keep him from being top-tier at a pro level. I can't imagine playing him with a million dollar prize on the line, where my opponent's character has all their tools available at the start whereas Jamie has to work for them each round.
Great vid!!
season 2 be like :
hi jamie
bye jamie
Akuma is said to be S tier? What the...
In theory yes he is.
If the give him 500 more hp & give him back his og air fireball he'll be top 2, but as of now high A at best
If they give him 500 more hp & give him back his og air fireball he'll be top 2, but as of now high A at best
Akuma is S tier in pretty much every game hes in. Fundamentally strong character
@@devinbuerger5832 Just because he's too tier in every other game, he isn't top tier by default.
Nice Ninja Gaiden II (NES) track at 24:19. One of my favorite NES games!
Ken down play is insane
I swear I said that too. Ex fireball dr is insane
@@RandomPerson28337 Ken Haters are insane...
@@FenixPajarito they arent haters, the biggest ken downplayers are ken mains who know he is overpowered. They pretend he isnt because they dont want him to get nerfed lmao. Even in this video he said ken should be in S tier but you have to dodge ken mains who will complain about that placement.
A tier is not downplay lmao
@@bobslaphappy6981 Ken is no longer overpowered anyways lol
Glad to see zangief not in bottom tier
I find Aki and Gief harder to deal with than Chun Li. I’d put Ken above her as well.
Ed above bison? Right....
I just don't agree with Rashid in top 3. To be fair, I'm a SCRUB, but I don't think a level 2 is the end all, be all when it comes to the entire package of a character.
Deejay is where he belongs man, they nerfed not only his damage but defensive options and combo routes as well. He's much easier to punish when just trying to play defense.
As time going on, more and more players will find out Luke is too high(almost every pros ditch Luke, this character may not even in T1) and Ken is too low(AngryBird and Tokido only use top5 characters)
The moment he put Juri above Ken, is when he lost me. He mentioned CC but how many wins has Ken in his pocket? Lol
Juri is extremely good
@@iretro97 she had damage scaling nerfed on multiple moves, she got a bug fix and a new combo route.
She’s still the same character.
You listen to any pro player like Punk talk about Capcom cup. He will say that the Juri player was carried by the bracket.
Meanwhile Ken has won multiple tournaments and is always downplayed as a B tier character.
Angry bird himself said Bison will smoke Ken and Akuma
He's the most biased one and consistently been downplaying Ken even in the previous season before the nerfs...
@@HiResDez well he lost 5-3 to big birds bison.😂😂😂😂
@@HiResDez and kakeru smashed ts akuma 5-3 aswell and angrybird said it would be 7-3 so he wasnt far off
Angry bird literally lies about ken to downplay him
@@smithclaxton3357 he lost 5-3 to bison.😂😂😂😂
Lmao ken anywhere outta top 5 is unacceptable. Purely unacceptable
@@datdude15 Ken Haters... 😴
@@FenixPajarito I don't hate him.....I hate AKI 😅
@@FenixPajarito haters or overraters,
I agree with his positioning on the tierlist, top 8 for sure
@@SOSLO1324 👌
Having Bison down by Marisa is WILD behavior.
Bro, I see people stop sonic boom drive rush all the time I’m sorry but I don’t agree. I don’t think sonic boom Drive rush is as good as everyone says it is, but I also don’t think Akuma is as good as people say as well however, I do think I’ll and Akuma are on the same Plainfield
*lily wins combo breaker*
“She’s winning tournaments now”
Also Ken is definitely top 5, he plays himself and is a hard carry for anyone using him
guile top tier? i should give this game a shot again
I keep seeing Chun-Li in the top tier yet she has no tournament results. Why is that
She is kinda like guile. Good on paper but not that effective in real games
I think also people always up play her. She’s not that good in game and I always challenge people to use her if she so top tier use her. She’s extremely hard to win with and deals very low damage. People want to see her not be good cuz she’s scary so they up play tf out of her
Why everyone put Rashid on top with no results?
rashid won the first 2 big tournaments since season 2 started. gachikun and big bird
@@tchogon4692 oh okay, my bad I guess I missed those.
I much think Luke is still pretty good probably in the top 5 with Akuma, Guile, Rashid & Ken. Tho I might say he's top 6 now that Bison is in the game.
Bison has mad walk speed and a DR that would make Dee Jay look like a toddler with that speed. And his damage output is insanely high, don't freaking care just because he is a final boss, he should not be able to 2 touch kill ya with that amount of damage, that was the whole BS argument for Luke when his damage got nerfed.
@@akilcharles3473 He needs it, considering there is at least one other character who two touches characters with a lot less thought in her gameplan, braid dead okizeme setups (quite literally built into all her knockdowns i swear), armored moves, and arguably better neutral skip minus the drive rush.
@@oOYourdadOo I'm can only assume you mean Marisa, but the thing with her she doesn't have nearly as much tools as Bison does and is much predictable for being a big body character like herself.
Also I may as well also include Akuma as well for he's everything that Luke was in season 1 but better. Yet he doesn't get the same flaged Luke gotten cause he's " a legacy boss character" too.
@@akilcharles3473 time is a factor. Akuma and Bison are new. they havent had the time on the shelf for as long as Luke or Marisa so they havent reached their expiration dates where people are ready to throw them out.
“she doesnt nearly have as many tools as Bison does”? Are you new or trolling? Maybe you simply replied too fast without really absorbing my statement. Her utility may not 1:1 be like Bisons, but too say she doesnt have any tools, or as many tools to work with, as Bison is seriously downplaying Marisa. Gladius, Superman Punch, Spartan Kick; have either armor, armor breaking utility, huge damage, corner carry, frame advantage with or without spacing, neutral skip, combo starters… BigBird (fgc) mained her for quite bit of time for those reasons, not simply because she hits hard. She has the guard move for while people thought was broken, and its still is considered really strong like OD Amnesia minus the grab guard point AND has the mind games behind it of having a command grab option attached to it. “Doesnt have the tools?” Despite her combos not being the “easiest”, SF6 doesnt really have hard hard combos to execute. Only like a handful (depending on player skill of course) spread out through the cast that are actually difficult, and most of those are situational or can only be performed when the conditions are met. Her combos lead to safe jumps (she has plenty), lead to okizeme (she has plenty, maybe TOO MUCH for a two touching character with extra health), she has throw loops. She. Has. Tools. I would argue that her main flaw is that she may require more drive meter to burn to stay in your face and close out a round, but if she is steam rolling you, who cares. You guess wrong once or twice in the round and thats your ass.
Bison doesnt have a Gladius. His poke special moves are easily shutdown with patience or spacing. You can always punish scissor kicks if you stay within range which isnt that difficult, so you basically keep them from spamming it if you do. His shadow rise and follows dont even come CLOSE to having the same utility of mobility and air control as they did in previous versions, and for a character without ANY unique reversals and a shitty universal reversal mechanic, he needed his special moves to be able to carry him in neutral. They may ACTUALLY need to buff him imo. (Small cap 🧢, very small) but seriously if he didnt have the tools and damage/utility off what he has now, he wouldnt be playable. He actually needs it. I played Bison in every version of Street Fighter (like a decade in SF4; few months in SFV i didnt like the slow SFV version). Bison has always been pretty linear with a simple game plan, but his unique special moves, speed, and strong normals, are what always allow him to maintain a fairly strong and consistent neutral with the right training and execution. He needs it. Marisa…needs to be toned down a bit imo, but arguably she needs it too. I think her overall movement speed needs to be slower like Gief and everything she else would be tolerable. Of forgot to mention she can easily destroy your drive gauge too. Faster than Bison. Gladius (rock) is safer than scissors. But yeah. I think i said it all. Probably missing things, but thats enough there i believe. If you still not convinced by what im saying, then when your favorite fgc players make a similar comparison in the future once the dust is settled, hopefully you’ll come back here and like my comment.
its crazy how many people still want to say cammy is s tier. high level she has to outplay you about 2 to 3 times more a round to win the match. feels like an uphill battle but i play anybody and even ryu and i make a few decisions and bam i won the round. shes just annoying with pressure but most of her playstyle always puts her at high risk for a counter if you want aggressive and mixups ken is literallly the better version of her and easy to just steamroll with a corner carry. punk just makes her look good cause hes a disgusting player but he switches to akuma and back on top but no one is making cammy look tournament viable they just have to consistently outplay their opponets more often to win
I hear people say Bison is S tier which is insane. He’s good but he has pretty big flaws as well.
Its funny how Lily and Gief hardly had any thing changed for them (their buffs were great). Hardly anything changed in the way they fight their matchups, yet all of sudden many people believe they jumped majorly from bottom 5 to top of the tierlists. Wild. Only thing that got buffed is their consistency on offense. You can still pressure Gief the same way. He still pressures you the same way, but the ratio was always 3:1 them over Gief, so they buffed his damage and gauge/meter damage to balance that difference. People run from him, but he doesnt lose much progress in whatever effort he exerted to chisel your health and drive gauge down. And Lily just simply converts better in normal situations. Manon got a similar buff just like Lily, but Manon still considered bottom 1.
@@oOYourdadOo this is why opinion like these don’t get taken seriously.
You’re really saying gief didn’t change?
So we are ignoring that he has plus frames now.
He gets some much levels, that he’s able to pull off 2 levels 2 in a 2 round match.
Most importantly his attacks destroy your drive meter.
Oh and let’s not forget gief has a positive win rate. But apparently since YOU can deal with them at whatever rank you’re at, you believe he’s still the same lol.
This TH-camr lost me the moment he downplayed Ken. You lost me the moment you said Gief wasn’t changed.
Ken should be higher methinks
I really hate the 'there's no reason to play Ryu' argument. The amount of people that stick with their preferred shotos is super high, even at a high level. I know pros are less likely to pick the lesser of two similar characters, but some do. We see it all the time. I know it was just a chat comment being read but it got to me lol. It feels like an argument that pretends we all exist in theory.
Shoto players are the least loyal people.
Rashid is better than Ken ?
Yes
Rashid or Akuma are #1
Ryu way too low
Ken is way harder to play them akuma
Coming from a chun main
Ken not high enough, tier list is compromised
Thank god you don’t make s or even ss tiers. No modern fighting game currently has an “s” tier character.
The letters don't matter. It's which characters are placed where, in relation to the others. I could make a marvel 2 tier list and substitute the letters for types of enchiladas and at the end of the day you're still gonna have storm sentinel magneto at the top, and roll and servot at the bottom. Or try this, reverse the tier list, put all the top characters at the bottom and worst at the top and show it to someone, what will their interpretation be? That you made and upside down tier list.
I understand that the argument is that there are no game breaking broken characters in modern fighters, but no one's having that conversation. We wanna talk about what characters are the best and the worst.
@@TheDonaldduck911the letters are a way to understand how close or far characters are in power level. In marvel 2, the difference in character power level is huge. Using a letter grade system helps convey how close or how far you think balance is. Explaining is always better than letters tho
Yeah I’m with you. The difference between q and chun is in third strike is a mountain while the worst character in sf6 can easily beat the best one. Vergil, Leroy, bob in t6 that shit was true s tier but people now just think the best character is automatically SS broken cheap characters which is not true
bad list, JP should be lower, ryu, ken, bison definitely top tier
Ryu is a top tier character, not represented, so he is downplayed to lower tier. On paper he is top tier, but since people would rather use Ken, Akuma, and Luke, you place him lower. Grow a pair and put him where you know he belongs.
I bet you're not a dad
Ryu is strong but he’s not as consistent as Ken and akuma. One hit from Ken and akuma and you’re in the corner holding 50/50s and throw loops. Whereas with ryu, Even with all the buffs, ryu’s gameplan is pretty much the same and it’s not the strongest in a game like sf6. He’s somehow less than the sum of his parts at the moment
@@JiBbo you would lose that bet because I am Your dad.
@@KingJinzo2125 if we are talking about gameplans. The shotos do the same thing, more so defensively then offensively, but offensively; Ryu plays SF6 as well as any other shoto and better then the half of the cast. He has everything you need to be a champion, but considered lower in tier lists because he is boring, linear, not as cool, or simply Ryu? Ryu does more damage then Ken for roughly the same amount of resources, and the argument people make is that Ken can finish a round quicker because he cornered you faster, but Guile is well above most characters and can play slower then ryu and has less spice in his play style. After the buffs, i dont see how the Ryu downplay is as strong as it is. Im not saying he numba juan, but he literally has top tier tools and utility, and still is ignored because he didnt wow anyone yet. It shouldnt take experienced players someone else to PROVE something that has always existed right in front of you.
Dalshim is A Tier, everytime I see competitive matches between tops they have a hard time against Dalshim.. By the way Ken is B tier now 🙄 JK
SIM was already bottom 5 contender in vanilla. he beats the grapplers and that's about it. even or losing match ups across the board. only reason he's ever had any success in 6 is a few of the best players stayed loyal to him. problem is, 6 is even worse than 5 at the entire match being fought from right next to each other. sim doesn't use the mechanics for shit, everything he does is a huge risk for low reward.
Remember when you thought Dhalsim was top tier?
You're doing it again.
Bison is likely S tier, needs to be nerfed.
Honda is the worse character in the game. He cant just yolo dr or spam fireballs or crouch medium kick
Manon is worse, but Honda is way down there
@@jamesboice2763 manon is definitely better she actually has tools just has to guess right to get the medals. But guessing with Honda doesn't give you any type of power up for later rnds
dhalsim too low
he was a contender for bottom 5 at launch and nearly everyone got better. he beats the grapplers and has no other advantageous matches.
It's not that Zangreif is "top tier" or not that is the issue. He just has too much for a fat grappler. Grief players are the worst, no footsies, just mash medium punch and spin the joystick around mashing in hope an SPD may work after you leave block stun.
Utterly braindead character. I have some respect for all other players that main anybody aside from Grief. Grief players actually believe they're good at the game and they're not.
facts lol
What rank do you play in? That's not meant as an insult. I think that may be true at some ranks, but I sure find that slog back and forth across the screen chasing down runners every. single. match more challenging than you describe at the higher ranks.
@JM-ou5ro -
Diamond 4-5 is around my rank. I'm getting on a bit, but I still enjoy fighting games! It's probably me, I just struggle with Gief. It's not the game.
@@SF61984 I'm surprised you're seeing that at that rank. As soon as I hit Diamond with Gief, opponents got way less loose and I definitely couldn't just spaz and mash if I wanted to win. If it's any consolation to you, if I've ever steamrolled you with 3 throws in 7 seconds with Gief, just know that my previous 10 matches were miserable slogs against 7 Akumas who ran away until the clock ran out, 1 Ryu who trashed me in neutral, and 2 Kens who stuffed me in the corner and never even gave me a turn :) The secret to beating Gief is counter intuitive - it's nonstop pressure. Nothing demoralizes me more than endless 50/50s, throw loops, and block strings in the corner with no reversal until my SA3 becomes available
@JM-ou5ro -
Ha, yes, It's that kind of game. You tend to either get smashed and humiliated or smash and humiliate your opponent. I think Gief can make players feel stupid, and that's not always the case. A few wrong guesses, and Gief just wins. Not necessarily because you've done anything wrong.
I think he just destroys Akuma. The matchup is in his favour. I feel more comfortable with Bison. I'm not good enough to use a character with 9000 health, even though I think he's great fun. Sorry if I came across as belittling your main, I kind of meant it tongue in cheek.
I think Gief is fine as he is. It's on me to learn the matchup. It was the same with JP and Cammy. I hated fighting them, but I learnt the matchup, so I'm fine now.
Ken players are delusional thinking Ken isn’t top 5. You play a high tier character it’s okay
They don’t want to admit it’s so much easier for them. In reality I think he’s better than akuma. He’s faster can get in easier and his dp is better. Corner carry’s way better.