You didn't mess up Jorphdan! Your players felt challenged, and they rose to meet that challenge with a witty solution (which i always enjoy more as a DM than a slug fest). I was blown away by the solution that your players came up with. And i think you don't need to have them go back to the Tomb of Horrors if you want to see how your players would fair in direct combat. They only bested the lich. Acererak lives... and they stole from him... he could return in your next campaign ;)
Leave it be. Do not shatter the experience for the idea that you may be able to showcase a bad guy in his full glory. Yes, mistakes were made, but use this knowledge for the next great battle. You did exactly what you were supposed to do. The joy of all your players at the table cheering speaks volumes my friend.
I see your first problem (will update) I love running enemies to the best of my ability so I try to use every ability to the point where I'm probably more voting for the monster as much as the player. The first problem is that you didn't use legendary resistance on the banish. Banish should not work on him so early in the fight. Second your players couldn't have fed the other players potions their turns because they were frightened, which occurs on a successful save from Howl. They would have bolted from the room or have been frozen in their place. Third if he was banished he would activate his anytime curse ability and teleport each character 300 miles in separate directions away from the tomb (as it says on page 227), which would then trigger the secondary and third curse effects. Nothing says he has to be in the tomb to deliver this effect, he could issue the curse while being banished for all that it matters. Fourth Acererack would not be trapped in the circle. He can only travel by magical means (magical flight) meaning he could indeed leave the circle at any time, wouldn't even require a save. And it wouldn't make a difference anyway the room is so small I assume your players were always in range of his various ranged attack, which don't have projectiles so he could still kill them from a distance which means everything at his disposal. Now I finished the vid, tell them plot twist, it's a spell. It was another fake Acererack and all their treasure is fake, as it dissolves in their hands they hear a cackling laugh in the distance. He is always watching.
I think its fine you forgot about the resistances, perhaps accerak found it amusing that they tried to banish him, an extradimensional lich, he was probably like 'heh these adventurers have a funny way of doing things, lets watch this play out.' Now he can stalk the players because hey hes an immortal soul sucking lich with so much time on his hands he probably gets bored from time to time, so it could be fun to mess with the players.
I think it goes against the spirit of the module that the Demi Lich was so easily taken care of but, if it makes a good story it’s a good story. Like I’ve fudged the rules myself for cool ideas so no judgement, like it’s just kind of a shame they didn’t get the real challenge.
I can definitely feel your pain. I ran a campaign for two years that lead to a final shutdown between the party, and Vecna God of the undead and his thirteen liches. A player cast slow on the liches and they all failed their save and that completely changed the tide of battle. What I realized later was that the liches had legendary resistance and should have shrugged it off. It was still a ridiculous fight that they talk about a year later.
I suggest leaving it where it’s at and not doing the fight again (at least immediately). Like you said, it’s one of those moments your players will remember for a long time, and if they try again and fail that memory will always be followed by “Yeah, but we only did it because Jorphdan didn’t use him to his full potential.” And it’ll lose some of its umph.Let them have this moment. Maybe it’s been so long since anyone got to the end of the Tomb that Acerack was rusty and forgot some of what he could do? Maybe he was caught off guard by the banishment?Maybe he comes back another time specifically looking for the ones who bested them and he’s “stronger” than before (now has his resistance)
Given that it was the end of the night, I think it’s reasonable to ignore legendary resistance. I know purists will say you should play it to the maximum, and generally I’d use them. Given the situation, which was to run away as opposed to killing him unceremoniously, it was a solid call and seemed like the right one for your table
Any party that is not defeated by Acererak has probably been overly helped by their DM. However, in this case with such a creative players I think I would let them slip away.
I ran the original Tomb of Horrors in 1st edition, several times, years ago. I thought it was actually a lot of fun, but the overall D&D gaming culture was different then. Character deaths were kind of expected and both players and DMs seemed less squeamish about the idea. It was definitely very punishing and there were a lot of "if you do this, you will die with no save, so better hope that you don't chose to do that" kinds of tricks and traps. I thought the 5th edition version kept a lot of those in. I just wish the 5th edition version included was the Illustration booklet that let the DM show the players pictures at various points to illustrate important locations or events. Like I said, though, I noticed that the modern internet culture seems to think Tomb of Horrors is some awful unfair experience, but I completely disagree. It's great fun if you go in with the mindset that the adventure is meant to challenge the player as well as the character. In my opinion, it wasn't really a "DM vs the Player" style module (Gygax repeatedly recommended against having that mentality), since the adventure was deadly enough that if you simply ran it as a "neutral referee" that there would be plenty of deaths.
Thank you for posting this. My group has been playing for over a year now, and during the holiday break with multiple people unable to commit to a weekly thing, we decided to play ToH as a way to fill the gap. Everyone heard the legends and as such I gave them the Yawning Portal version stating they can have a couple characters ready to swap out and what not. And for funsies everyone got a few magic items from the sane magical items price guide of a specific rarity without limit to cost. I too have noticed my players being very cautious, and thus far, not stepped in to the insta kill traps. We play tonight again and possibly meet Acererak granted they don't get tripped up. I felt like I was failing because ... no one has died... but at the same time, they geared and tooled their toons to be badass dungeon crawlers with super high passive perception.. Literally they know about every trap passively. So thank you for posting this (and the last one) as I don't feel so alone in feeling like it was a big let down.
I'm convinced that the 5th edition version of this is just easier. So yeah, don't worry about it. Ultimately I think your group will have fun, just like mine did :)
Hi Jorphdan, your videos have been an invaluable resource. Keep up the great work. On to my comment. -- I have been on a few forums for converting the old modules to 5e. I have read there a number of times that when old school players read modules that have already been updated to 5e that the 5e versions end up losing a lot of potency or flavour. It is completely possible that the Tomb of Horrors found in 'Tales of the Yawning Portal' has been softened up to make it more accessible.
I ran the Greyhawk version of the Tomb many times. Once, someone brought in a Dragonlance Kender. The halfling crawled into the mouth of the Green Devil face in the first hall, then before I could say anything she, thinking it was just an area of darkness, crawled back out saying, "Whelp, nothing there..." I thought about it, and for this one time I let it happen. I had Acererak blink in disbelief, then said to himself, "Oh no...there's a Kender in my Tomb...", then later had a demon return her lost stuff, escorted her outside, and told firmly not to return...
I absolutely know your exact feeling. I just ran an one shot as Vecna on my birthday and after killing the team's favorite sidekick, the sorcerer pointed at Vecna with Power Word Kill and Vecna only had 96 hit points left. So they killed him, and it wasn't until after game that I remembered he could have simply counterspelled the death. But I think they had fun and I wouldn't change it.
I just completed my campaign's "tour" through the 5e version of the Tomb of Horrors. I wanted the new party (all level 3 going in) to use it as a training exercise, so I made it part of a carnival event and gave them some magic items to protect them from mistakes (rings that duplicated the Lucky feat). Over the course of four 6-8 hour sessions, they skulked through with tenacious determination to avoid traps at all costs, literally letting the perceptive druid walk ahead of the party to detect traps, stopping every 5 feet (because the party rogue didn't take Dungeon Delver). Much like your experience, the party either got lucky or chose wisely and barely felt the looming threat of death around every corner. It wasn't until the Efreeti encounter that they really felt like they had no chance (due to antimagic field). The Bard of the party attempted to seduce the Efreeti, and SUCCEEDED (I rolled 100 on percentile dice for his response), so he stole her away into the bottle for some magical coitus. The fighter, not having the Efreeti steal away her best friend, kicked over the urn, and they rolled initiative the next round. Just before the end, the party wizard (who had spent the last minute frightened from the Antipathy key) was tossed the cursed Wish gem and used it to attempt to kill the efreeti... but it exploded in her hands and took out half the party. The Efreeti TPK'd them in a few rounds, but they were one persuasion roll away from 3 wishes! Ultimately, I felt much like you did... I felt like I overhyped the potential for death in the Tomb, and they went in extremely carefully and survived up until the end. I kinda wish I had just let them into Acererak's tomb now just to see how they would have handled it... but let the fact that 5 level 3 characters survived until the Efreeti room with minimal complications sink in.
First, you all had a legendary time, that's the most important part. This is one of those 'glitches' that you can go back and revisit, but in a different way. WHY didn't Acererack use his legendary resistances other than, "The DM messed up"? Perhaps, there was a Demon who intervened on the PC's behalf, and now he wants repayment. They can choose... Do a minor little 'favor' for the demon OR the demon will send the BACK in time to the Tomb battle, but this time he won't be there to help them.
Oh on the next step[s, you mentioned maybe running final confrontation again just for fun. Well they left him "alive" likely with some stuff gone, and if nothing else his pride hurt. To me leaves something to good for a future encounter for real. Oh btw maybe his resistance did not work because he was in the middle of a long magical process to make himself stronger, which the party messed up...Just how I might play it ;)
The Tomb has been converted not only TO 5e but also FOR 5e. There are several instances where instant death has been changed to damage or saving throws etc. Maybe that's why you thought it'd be worse than it was.
I think that as long as your players had fun. The session was a success. And as long as your players also know that they were 'rewarded' for their creativity, they will also have the humility knowing that they really should have lost. I can imagine the look on their faces as you fail your saving throw but then describe how the spell fizzles out around Acererak because even though it succeeded, it still had no effect on the demi lich. In the end, you all had fun. That's what D & D is all about. Knowing this was a year ago.... Did you ever do a session with them in which the demi lich went after them? lol!
Did you see the joy on that fail for Acererak (...or conversely on that success for your players)? You as the DM have done nothing wrong. In fact, you've done everything right. Legendary resistances notwithstanding 😋
I've played the AD&D version of the ToH module, back in the mid-80s. I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of that version with the 5th generation version and see the differences. I think I still have the AD&D version in a box somewhere...
5th edition in general is more... forgiving than earlier D&D. I'm not 100% sure if the module changed or just the base system made it a little easier. Still a blast to run. I'd be curious to run Tomb of Horrors as an OSR game that is a little more hard core.
You follow the first rule of D&D have fun! You shouldn't feel bad about that I just found your Channel not too long ago keep putting out the good stuff have a great night
You could always run Return to the Tomb of Horrors. It is not great but with a little modification.... As far as the ending, it sounds like a great deal of fun and the players felt heroic. So that is what matters.
Like I said in the last video: ToH, and ToA to an extent, is very puzzle heavy. As a result, just thinking things through, and a bit of luck, can get you pretty far through the dungeon. This can let you roll into ToA pretty easy with the bonus of when Acerak finds out who's trying to stop the death curse, it's a group of adventurers that bested him once, and therefore won't hold back at all. Though if there was a "screw you, you're a bag of hit points, pay the HP tax", it's Doomvault. The thing is so large it's designed to be made of 3 full size parties adventuring at once.
you absolutely should not go back and have them face Acererak, that is a recipe for disaster. The stat block of Acererak in the book has nothing to do with the play experience, YOU might wish that you had noticed those details but in order to maintain verisimilitude never let your players know that they faced a modified monster, because right now in their memories, they beat an almighty lich, and that memory and experience is worth treasuring and protecting.
+The Bearded Goblin yeah the more I think about it you are correct. I think he may show up later (Much later) as an boss. But for now tomb of horrors is done 😊
Even the original AD&D module we played back in the 80's had a reputation for being a character killer. When I first ran it I had no idea how bad I'd end up feeling after. I don't think I did it justice. I'm going to re run it (like 35 years later) soon once my new campaign gets going. Lets hope i can improve the experience for myself and my new players.
I had a player with Lucky feat forget that it can effect incoming attacks. The player assumed it was only their rolls. They had other characters with lucky so I figured they knew what they were doing. Do we redo the session and dungeon since they forgot to use their 3/day reroll? No. We adjust moving forward. I think the demilich might try to retrieve his stuff. I like "show" legendary resistance to players as a trink or mark. For example gave a spirit naga legendary resistance and she had a necklace of skulls. When she used a resistance a skull would turn to ash.
Randall Goeth It also easily could be said that Acererak chose not to use the Legendary Resistance because Banishment wouldn't actually harm him, just inconvenience him. So, since he can't predict the future, he chose to keep the auto saves for an emergency and was surprised to find himself suddenly trapped when he came back.
jh4556 That's fair but magic circle has charisma saving throw for teleportation out as well. I don't really know the demilich's motivations other than apparently he does like people to survive his tomb.
I too have forgotten to do things like forgetting lair rules or an equivalent in previous editions. Keep in mind that we have a tendency to be too hard on ourselves, and chalk it up to a learning experience. The interwebs are a valuable too, and dont forget that we were all pretty much on our own 20 years ago, so think of how poorly i executed some modules. I guess what i am trying to say is, you did fine kimosabe.
I have the perfect way to make everything right in your world. Next game session. A boulder falls out of the sky on top of each player crushing them to death. The end. :)
As DM I do the same thing: leave mistakes made, in-place & as-is, with a mental note to do it correctly NEXT time - So long as the resulting situation is not absolutely intolerable to my gamers. My first thought though, upon listening to this, is that your only real problem is having run it using any Acererak stats or abilities not granted his original conception and presentation in the original publication of the module. By purely grognardian AD&D standards, there was at that time no such a thing as a “legendary resistance” ...and so you shouldn’t beat yourself up too much. No harm/no foul - a good time was had by all! ...And isn’t that really the whole point?
I believe that the demilich would save legendary resistance for instances where the threat is save or be destroyed. Being banished for a minute or stuck in a magic circle for an hour is not such a case.
Tell them that there was another entity who had used up his legendary resistances that day, which can be a quest all it self. The entity seeks them out because they owe it.
5e is skewed quite far in the players' favor, overall. I mean, I kinda get it, but Wiz designs adventures with an attitude that the players should just faceroll them, and like you discovered with the Tomb, they can feel a bit like participation trophies. I have to say, though, banishing a demilich was a clever idea--and Acererak may have just let it happen because he was curious to see what would come of it. ;)
Being a new DM as well I forget small monster abilities let alone high level creatures. So don't beat yourself up over it. And like you said, your players had fun so it was a success. Also you learned a lesson about high level villains that you won't forget next time (probably when you have a more meaningful campaign going). So again a success. I would say move on, but I know that feeling if wanting to go back and do it the right way.
Honestly, seeing how it played out I don't think using the Legendary Resistances would have added to their enjoyment of that fight. The cheering and standing around the table hinged on that last roll tells me the module was a success.
I think it's reasonable to argue that Acererak might not use his resistance on what he might consider a piddly spell. Banishment is a mere inconvenience, better save save it for something he's fearful of. So in that way the players outwitted him. Extra bonus: "defeated but not destroyed" sure sounds a lot like "awaiting a rematch".
Also, why not follow it up with Tomb of Annihilation? Then you can make them fear death again, play on grinder mode, and they can still get a final showdown with Acererak.
Basically what everyone already said Let it be a great memory and move on to the next campaign. The players won't remember besting YOU, the DM, but a Demilich and after hearing that great plan, I woulda fudged the roll anyway and gave it to them
Leave it as it is. You can't recreate the moment, the right mood, and your players won't be as invested as they were when they first ran into Acererak. I'd say...take that note, and do it differently the next time you run it for another group, and see if they come up with something cool as well. Wanna say...great ending, don't mind the legendary resistance. I think it's a great way of ending it, so...well done to you and your players :)
How many sessions did it take you to run and how long are your sessions? Also, did you use the version in Tales from the Yawning Portal? Just curious. My fiance' is running Tomb of Annihilation soon and I was thinking about running ToH as a prequel to her game. I have this idea on how our character's ancestors had to deal with Acererak 200 years ago as a way to build up the suspense.
I wouldn't feel bad as the main reason it isn't ball busting hard as it used to be is because 5E isn't as brutal as AD&D was. There just aren't as many insta kill spells and traps like then, so don't sweat it.
They were creative but their idea shouldn’t have worked. Sometimes that happens. They had fun, so it wasn’t a failure. However, I don’t think they experienced The Tomb of Horrors. It’s like bowling a 300 with the bumpers up. You were bowling and you may have had fun, but it isn’t the same.
Im commenting here partualy just ro be the 100th comentater. But I am writing a campaign that is reminisant of the toomb of horrors. I apresiate what you said that you were having more fun after you shifted your perspective to that you were actuly trying to kill the players.
I think you are too concerned about the party winning the game and TOH is the module that allows DM to let himself win. You could have let guys be happy for that second and then they congratulating them self, you start lathing in the voice of the Demi Lich, saying- Are you happy, are you satisfied? Do you know where you are insects? You at my Tomb!!! I was intrigued by mortals who have bested my dungeon and you try to trap me, outwit me!!! I Am undying king I AM YOUR END! And just counterspell or whatever he can do and more, and cast finger of death to kill a guy who cast banishment. But I think you have to go into the tomb of horrors with an idea- if they meet final boss-they die. But you are da best, great job on a video and your players had so much fun and its most important thing:)
Lair traits (not actions) seems to me to stop banishment anyway. My opinion on how to run ToH and it is only opinion: I think it is best played as true to original as possible. I am going to run this in a couple of weeks and all of the save or die from the original will be there. But that is because our mindset on this is different from our normal play. It is, lets see how far we can get in a campaign that is not remotely fair. It will be the exception to the rule. It will be player vs DM. And it will be fun for all of us. The frustration (ironic as it may be) is part of that. Talking about how pissed and cheated you felt after-the -fact is actually fun cuz we know its just the way that campaign is. Running with 5e mechanics makes it easier by default anyway. The nerfing they did in the 5e reprint is unnecessary and damaging to the original intent and feel of it (again personal opinion). People think that they beat ToH and wonder why it has the reputation it has (not exactly the same thing). Some may disagree and think it makes it better to have the player “feel good” about that. I personally think it cheapens the legacy of the module. Im trying not to oversell it either but i told the players its best to make new characters cuz its not meant to be fair. They understand and want to see how it is. They said, “dont go easy on us.” So i wont and it will be a fun change of pace.
I had the worst dnd sessions I've had while playing dnd. Three of my characters died within the two sessions that I played. I did have fun but it sucked that all three I played died (one was brought back to life)
Yeah... 5th edition in general is more geared towards the PC’s survival than most of the other editions, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the infamous Tomb of Horrors was watered down.... not owning the 5th version, I am not sure this is a fact, but I suspect it is
I don't think it was your fault, or that you run the ToH "wrong". Legendary resistance or not. I really think that 5e (or even 4e or 3.x) isn't the system for the Tomb of Horrors. It was designed at the beginnings of the D&D system back in 1975, and then upgraded to AD&D (1e). The lethality of the Tomb comes with the system it's being paired with. Back in AD&D, your character died at 0hp. No death saves, no negative hit points. In AD&D 2nd you could have the "hovering on death's door" rule and reach -10hp... but it was still quite lethal. Also, healing magic wasn't nearly as powerful (and you needed to prepare the spells beforehand, no "changing one divine spell into healing magic"). Cure light wounds (lvl.1 spell) only healed 1d8hp. Cure serious wounds (lvl.4 spell) healed 2d8+1hp. Cure critical wounds (lvl.5 spell) healed 3d8+3hp. There were no variables based on the priest level, those amounts were fixed. And there wasn't any "Mass heal". So, the Tomb can't be as lethal in a rules system that values character resiliency so much. Where the characters are supposed to continue living, so as to bring opportunities of growth and stories (and emphasis of ROLEplaying that wasn't present in the 70's, when this module was created). Tomb of Horrors was created at a time when D&D had just evolved from wargaming. Even before D&D was called a "roleplaying game". And when characters were anonymous and two-dimensional. Barely a name and some stats. There wasn't so much attachment to them. A PC dying was no big deal. So little attachment there was, that even the names were just jokes and anagrams (Robilar, Tenser, Serten, Bigby, Rigby, Melf, Rary, etc.). Very little thought put into them. I'm actually a grognard, so I miss those old days. With a couple of exceptions (in 3.x), I've never played any D&D version past AD&D 2e. Still play AD&D 2e, it's my favorite version (due to a mix between the old-school feel and more options than 1e). I say, let the past remain in the past. 5e seems geared towards a little bit more of character development and roleplaying, than the pure and true "death-trap filled dungeon crawl" of the late 70's and early 80's. Continue with that style. 5e it's too lenient and forgives too many rash actions and poorly thought decisions, for it to be a good fit for Tomb of Horrors. AD&D was brutal in that respect (but I've played even more brutal systems, so I don't feel it so much).
I have not played 5E, however I have run this module multiple times over the years, using 1st edition through pathfinder and I have a few comments. This module was intended to reward player skill instead of character power. There is usually a way to proceed through the tomb with little damage if the players are extremely careful, and many parties have done so throughout the years. The tombs bad reputation is due to the many DMs that have just dropped this module into their campaigns, without giving their players any warning, something the author warned against in the original publication. You may have gone a little overboard on this but given that your players had a great time, I would give that a pass. They are feeling great about themselves and the game right now which means that you are doing a great job. Don't spoil it by making them fight the lich again. That said, applying some lessons that you learned this time in the future would be in order. The lich is intended to be nearly unbeatable, but with one key weakness. At least as originally written, the skull would remain inert as long as it wasn't touched. The player could completely loot the tomb as long as they were very careful to leave the skull alone.
Playing it again won't recapture everything that builds before the final fight, and will probably only diminish the experience. But I do think you diminished the experience some by making The Tomb easier to beat. We beat it in '70 only because we had some really clever players and we had spent a ton of time with our characters. (We decided not to use temp characters).
Traps really a trap killed somebody that's just sad I guess there's something to be said about a sorcerer that always keeps animate body and Magic hand ready to go keep a small bag of bones with you animated send it to explore for traps and if it gets destroyed by traps and the bones are still salvageable if you pull them back with magic hand no muss no fuss and you stay far enough away that you stay out of harm kind of also a good reason to carry a 6-foot iron pole
5e design as a whole is more forgiving than older versions of D&D. I don't think the dungeon changed much just the system that approaches it. Still fun to experience though!
@@Jorphdan Oh, no doubt it's still fun. But in my opinion, it almost feels like 5e is geared towards low level play, making sure that not everything is as dangerous as it was in previous editions. For me, the most exciting parts are when I used to be at the edge of death, then came back at full force.
Id leave it as is. Dont do the battle again. You can always have them meet up with Acerak again in Chult. He didnt die and your players felt that huge release of success. The lich lives in u knowing that the success was only temporary. They must now follow to end him once and for all.
This is what i would do: everything played, is played, in the end demilich survive, they got a nasty archenemy. I would make the demilich repop later to annihilate the PC's as been banished/trapped is no fun. So roll with it, start new scenario, like 2 - 3 sessions on new stuff, but inject the evil demilich in at session 4 :D cheers
your players (and you) should have known about legendary resistances going into the fight, but in case they don't see this video I would advise against telling them that you "messed up" and they won because you forgot a (crucial) piece of info/rules, it'll rob them of their victory
I don't see how you can think you over prepared your players. The lethality of that dungeon is well known. I'm not sure how experienced in DND your players are, but chances are must experienced players would know of it and prepare. But not warning newer players would have just handicapped then for not knowing dndb lore
You didn't mess up Jorphdan! Your players felt challenged, and they rose to meet that challenge with a witty solution (which i always enjoy more as a DM than a slug fest). I was blown away by the solution that your players came up with. And i think you don't need to have them go back to the Tomb of Horrors if you want to see how your players would fair in direct combat. They only bested the lich.
Acererak lives...
and they stole from him...
he could return in your next campaign ;)
Did you run it by the book? No. Did you run it _correctly_? YES! If you all had fun, then you ran it "correctly".
Your players looked thrilled. They couldnt be happier... thats all that matters
Leave it be. Do not shatter the experience for the idea that you may be able to showcase a bad guy in his full glory. Yes, mistakes were made, but use this knowledge for the next great battle. You did exactly what you were supposed to do. The joy of all your players at the table cheering speaks volumes my friend.
Thanks! The more I think about it you are correct. It's done and over with, I'll just remember this for future challenging battles :)
Great reflections - I’m guilty of forgetting how to use monsters to their full potential all the time!
The "Rule of Cool" wins out on this one.
You shouldn't feel too bad your players looked really happy all that matters.
I see your first problem (will update) I love running enemies to the best of my ability so I try to use every ability to the point where I'm probably more voting for the monster as much as the player.
The first problem is that you didn't use legendary resistance on the banish. Banish should not work on him so early in the fight.
Second your players couldn't have fed the other players potions their turns because they were frightened, which occurs on a successful save from Howl. They would have bolted from the room or have been frozen in their place.
Third if he was banished he would activate his anytime curse ability and teleport each character 300 miles in separate directions away from the tomb (as it says on page 227), which would then trigger the secondary and third curse effects. Nothing says he has to be in the tomb to deliver this effect, he could issue the curse while being banished for all that it matters.
Fourth Acererack would not be trapped in the circle. He can only travel by magical means (magical flight) meaning he could indeed leave the circle at any time, wouldn't even require a save. And it wouldn't make a difference anyway the room is so small I assume your players were always in range of his various ranged attack, which don't have projectiles so he could still kill them from a distance which means everything at his disposal.
Now I finished the vid, tell them plot twist, it's a spell.
It was another fake Acererack and all their treasure is fake, as it dissolves in their hands they hear a cackling laugh in the distance. He is always watching.
I think its fine you forgot about the resistances, perhaps accerak found it amusing that they tried to banish him, an extradimensional lich, he was probably like 'heh these adventurers have a funny way of doing things, lets watch this play out.' Now he can stalk the players because hey hes an immortal soul sucking lich with so much time on his hands he probably gets bored from time to time, so it could be fun to mess with the players.
I’d leave the ToH as it was. Move on to the next game. It sounds like it went great. Your players were clearly excited about the outcome.
You're the kind of DM that makes DnD great. You want your party to have fun and you facilitate that. I really admire you for that
+Joel Zerr thanks man
I think it goes against the spirit of the module that the Demi Lich was so easily taken care of but, if it makes a good story it’s a good story. Like I’ve fudged the rules myself for cool ideas so no judgement, like it’s just kind of a shame they didn’t get the real challenge.
If you make it to the final fight. Your DM held your hand.
I can definitely feel your pain. I ran a campaign for two years that lead to a final shutdown between the party, and Vecna God of the undead and his thirteen liches. A player cast slow on the liches and they all failed their save and that completely changed the tide of battle. What I realized later was that the liches had legendary resistance and should have shrugged it off. It was still a ridiculous fight that they talk about a year later.
I suggest leaving it where it’s at and not doing the fight again (at least immediately). Like you said, it’s one of those moments your players will remember for a long time, and if they try again and fail that memory will always be followed by “Yeah, but we only did it because Jorphdan didn’t use him to his full potential.” And it’ll lose some of its umph.Let them have this moment. Maybe it’s been so long since anyone got to the end of the Tomb that Acerack was rusty and forgot some of what he could do? Maybe he was caught off guard by the banishment?Maybe he comes back another time specifically looking for the ones who bested them and he’s “stronger” than before (now has his resistance)
I agree! Great comment, thanks :D
Given that it was the end of the night, I think it’s reasonable to ignore legendary resistance. I know purists will say you should play it to the maximum, and generally I’d use them. Given the situation, which was to run away as opposed to killing him unceremoniously, it was a solid call and seemed like the right one for your table
Any party that is not defeated by Acererak has probably been overly helped by their DM.
However, in this case with such a creative players I think I would let them slip away.
I ran the original Tomb of Horrors in 1st edition, several times, years ago. I thought it was actually a lot of fun, but the overall D&D gaming culture was different then. Character deaths were kind of expected and both players and DMs seemed less squeamish about the idea. It was definitely very punishing and there were a lot of "if you do this, you will die with no save, so better hope that you don't chose to do that" kinds of tricks and traps. I thought the 5th edition version kept a lot of those in. I just wish the 5th edition version included was the Illustration booklet that let the DM show the players pictures at various points to illustrate important locations or events. Like I said, though, I noticed that the modern internet culture seems to think Tomb of Horrors is some awful unfair experience, but I completely disagree. It's great fun if you go in with the mindset that the adventure is meant to challenge the player as well as the character. In my opinion, it wasn't really a "DM vs the Player" style module (Gygax repeatedly recommended against having that mentality), since the adventure was deadly enough that if you simply ran it as a "neutral referee" that there would be plenty of deaths.
Thank you for posting this. My group has been playing for over a year now, and during the holiday break with multiple people unable to commit to a weekly thing, we decided to play ToH as a way to fill the gap. Everyone heard the legends and as such I gave them the Yawning Portal version stating they can have a couple characters ready to swap out and what not. And for funsies everyone got a few magic items from the sane magical items price guide of a specific rarity without limit to cost. I too have noticed my players being very cautious, and thus far, not stepped in to the insta kill traps. We play tonight again and possibly meet Acererak granted they don't get tripped up. I felt like I was failing because ... no one has died... but at the same time, they geared and tooled their toons to be badass dungeon crawlers with super high passive perception.. Literally they know about every trap passively. So thank you for posting this (and the last one) as I don't feel so alone in feeling like it was a big let down.
I'm convinced that the 5th edition version of this is just easier. So yeah, don't worry about it. Ultimately I think your group will have fun, just like mine did :)
Hi Jorphdan, your videos have been an invaluable resource. Keep up the great work. On to my comment. -- I have been on a few forums for converting the old modules to 5e. I have read there a number of times that when old school players read modules that have already been updated to 5e that the 5e versions end up losing a lot of potency or flavour. It is completely possible that the Tomb of Horrors found in 'Tales of the Yawning Portal' has been softened up to make it more accessible.
I ran the Greyhawk version of the Tomb many times. Once, someone brought in a Dragonlance Kender. The halfling crawled into the mouth of the Green Devil face in the first hall, then before I could say anything she, thinking it was just an area of darkness, crawled back out saying, "Whelp, nothing there..." I thought about it, and for this one time I let it happen. I had Acererak blink in disbelief, then said to himself, "Oh no...there's a Kender in my Tomb...", then later had a demon return her lost stuff, escorted her outside, and told firmly not to return...
I absolutely know your exact feeling. I just ran an one shot as Vecna on my birthday and after killing the team's favorite sidekick, the sorcerer pointed at Vecna with Power Word Kill and Vecna only had 96 hit points left. So they killed him, and it wasn't until after game that I remembered he could have simply counterspelled the death. But I think they had fun and I wouldn't change it.
I just completed my campaign's "tour" through the 5e version of the Tomb of Horrors. I wanted the new party (all level 3 going in) to use it as a training exercise, so I made it part of a carnival event and gave them some magic items to protect them from mistakes (rings that duplicated the Lucky feat). Over the course of four 6-8 hour sessions, they skulked through with tenacious determination to avoid traps at all costs, literally letting the perceptive druid walk ahead of the party to detect traps, stopping every 5 feet (because the party rogue didn't take Dungeon Delver). Much like your experience, the party either got lucky or chose wisely and barely felt the looming threat of death around every corner. It wasn't until the Efreeti encounter that they really felt like they had no chance (due to antimagic field). The Bard of the party attempted to seduce the Efreeti, and SUCCEEDED (I rolled 100 on percentile dice for his response), so he stole her away into the bottle for some magical coitus. The fighter, not having the Efreeti steal away her best friend, kicked over the urn, and they rolled initiative the next round. Just before the end, the party wizard (who had spent the last minute frightened from the Antipathy key) was tossed the cursed Wish gem and used it to attempt to kill the efreeti... but it exploded in her hands and took out half the party. The Efreeti TPK'd them in a few rounds, but they were one persuasion roll away from 3 wishes!
Ultimately, I felt much like you did... I felt like I overhyped the potential for death in the Tomb, and they went in extremely carefully and survived up until the end. I kinda wish I had just let them into Acererak's tomb now just to see how they would have handled it... but let the fact that 5 level 3 characters survived until the Efreeti room with minimal complications sink in.
Wow level three that's crazy. Thanks for sharing!
First, you all had a legendary time, that's the most important part. This is one of those 'glitches' that you can go back and revisit, but in a different way. WHY didn't Acererack use his legendary resistances other than, "The DM messed up"? Perhaps, there was a Demon who intervened on the PC's behalf, and now he wants repayment. They can choose... Do a minor little 'favor' for the demon OR the demon will send the BACK in time to the Tomb battle, but this time he won't be there to help them.
Oh on the next step[s, you mentioned maybe running final confrontation again just for fun. Well they left him "alive" likely with some stuff gone, and if nothing else his pride hurt. To me leaves something to good for a future encounter for real. Oh btw maybe his resistance did not work because he was in the middle of a long magical process to make himself stronger, which the party messed up...Just how I might play it ;)
The Tomb has been converted not only TO 5e but also FOR 5e. There are several instances where instant death has been changed to damage or saving throws etc. Maybe that's why you thought it'd be worse than it was.
BonadanAlloy you are correct the 5e version is severely watered down.
Not to mention it's harder to die in 5 e than 1st e.
I'm glad you had fun man that's what matters most
I think that as long as your players had fun. The session was a success. And as long as your players also know that they were 'rewarded' for their creativity, they will also have the humility knowing that they really should have lost. I can imagine the look on their faces as you fail your saving throw but then describe how the spell fizzles out around Acererak because even though it succeeded, it still had no effect on the demi lich. In the end, you all had fun. That's what D & D is all about. Knowing this was a year ago.... Did you ever do a session with them in which the demi lich went after them? lol!
Did you see the joy on that fail for Acererak (...or conversely on that success for your players)?
You as the DM have done nothing wrong.
In fact, you've done everything right.
Legendary resistances notwithstanding 😋
I've played the AD&D version of the ToH module, back in the mid-80s. I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of that version with the 5th generation version and see the differences. I think I still have the AD&D version in a box somewhere...
5th edition in general is more... forgiving than earlier D&D. I'm not 100% sure if the module changed or just the base system made it a little easier. Still a blast to run. I'd be curious to run Tomb of Horrors as an OSR game that is a little more hard core.
12:36
and this is why Gary wrote TTOH in the first place.
GRATS - it is absolutely the theme of the module and why it was created 🙂
👏🎈🎉🎊🥇🏆
You follow the first rule of D&D have fun! You shouldn't feel bad about that I just found your Channel not too long ago keep putting out the good stuff have a great night
You could always run Return to the Tomb of Horrors. It is not great but with a little modification.... As far as the ending, it sounds like a great deal of fun and the players felt heroic. So that is what matters.
As long as everyone had fun, you did it right.
Thank you Jorphdan!
Like I said in the last video: ToH, and ToA to an extent, is very puzzle heavy. As a result, just thinking things through, and a bit of luck, can get you pretty far through the dungeon. This can let you roll into ToA pretty easy with the bonus of when Acerak finds out who's trying to stop the death curse, it's a group of adventurers that bested him once, and therefore won't hold back at all.
Though if there was a "screw you, you're a bag of hit points, pay the HP tax", it's Doomvault. The thing is so large it's designed to be made of 3 full size parties adventuring at once.
you absolutely should not go back and have them face Acererak, that is a recipe for disaster. The stat block of Acererak in the book has nothing to do with the play experience, YOU might wish that you had noticed those details but in order to maintain verisimilitude never let your players know that they faced a modified monster, because right now in their memories, they beat an almighty lich, and that memory and experience is worth treasuring and protecting.
+The Bearded Goblin yeah the more I think about it you are correct. I think he may show up later (Much later) as an boss. But for now tomb of horrors is done 😊
Even the original AD&D module we played back in the 80's had a reputation for being a character killer. When I first ran it I had no idea how bad I'd end up feeling after. I don't think I did it justice. I'm going to re run it (like 35 years later) soon once my new campaign gets going. Lets hope i can improve the experience for myself and my new players.
I had a player with Lucky feat forget that it can effect incoming attacks. The player assumed it was only their rolls. They had other characters with lucky so I figured they knew what they were doing. Do we redo the session and dungeon since they forgot to use their 3/day reroll? No. We adjust moving forward. I think the demilich might try to retrieve his stuff.
I like "show" legendary resistance to players as a trink or mark. For example gave a spirit naga legendary resistance and she had a necklace of skulls. When she used a resistance a skull would turn to ash.
Randall Goeth It also easily could be said that Acererak chose not to use the Legendary Resistance because Banishment wouldn't actually harm him, just inconvenience him. So, since he can't predict the future, he chose to keep the auto saves for an emergency and was surprised to find himself suddenly trapped when he came back.
jh4556 That's fair but magic circle has charisma saving throw for teleportation out as well. I don't really know the demilich's motivations other than apparently he does like people to survive his tomb.
I too have forgotten to do things like forgetting lair rules or an equivalent in previous editions.
Keep in mind that we have a tendency to be too hard on ourselves, and chalk it up to a learning experience.
The interwebs are a valuable too, and dont forget that we were all pretty much on our own 20 years ago, so think of how poorly i executed some modules.
I guess what i am trying to say is, you did fine kimosabe.
I have the perfect way to make everything right in your world. Next game session. A boulder falls out of the sky on top of each player crushing them to death. The end. :)
Well Jorphdan, if that’s how “round one” against Acerorak went, as far as I’m aware there’s only one way to go from here...
Run Tomb of Annihilation!
"My players had a lot of fun." That sounds like winning and not messing up to me. Setting up expectations is important.
As DM I do the same thing: leave mistakes made, in-place & as-is, with a mental note to do it correctly NEXT time - So long as the resulting situation is not absolutely intolerable to my gamers.
My first thought though, upon listening to this, is that your only real problem is having run it using any Acererak stats or abilities not granted his original conception and presentation in the original publication of the module. By purely grognardian AD&D standards, there was at that time no such a thing as a “legendary resistance” ...and so you shouldn’t beat yourself up too much. No harm/no foul - a good time was had by all!
...And isn’t that really the whole point?
I believe that the demilich would save legendary resistance for instances where the threat is save or be destroyed. Being banished for a minute or stuck in a magic circle for an hour is not such a case.
Tell them that there was another entity who had used up his legendary resistances that day, which can be a quest all it self. The entity seeks them out because they owe it.
Long as you all had fun, that’s what matters
5e is skewed quite far in the players' favor, overall. I mean, I kinda get it, but Wiz designs adventures with an attitude that the players should just faceroll them, and like you discovered with the Tomb, they can feel a bit like participation trophies. I have to say, though, banishing a demilich was a clever idea--and Acererak may have just let it happen because he was curious to see what would come of it. ;)
Being a new DM as well I forget small monster abilities let alone high level creatures. So don't beat yourself up over it. And like you said, your players had fun so it was a success. Also you learned a lesson about high level villains that you won't forget next time (probably when you have a more meaningful campaign going). So again a success.
I would say move on, but I know that feeling if wanting to go back and do it the right way.
Honestly, seeing how it played out I don't think using the Legendary Resistances would have added to their enjoyment of that fight. The cheering and standing around the table hinged on that last roll tells me the module was a success.
1. Now your campaign has a God tier villian
2. Time to convert the return to tomb of horrors mega module to 5e
I think you did a good job, there is no perfect game more perfect than the player's enjoyment...
That moment is too cool, honestly even if i knew their were legendary resistances, i would have let them have it.
I think it's reasonable to argue that Acererak might not use his resistance on what he might consider a piddly spell. Banishment is a mere inconvenience, better save save it for something he's fearful of. So in that way the players outwitted him. Extra bonus: "defeated but not destroyed" sure sounds a lot like "awaiting a rematch".
So you didn't think Asserak had a way to counter it? Also, they did good.
Showing my age but I played this module in the 80's. It was freaking brutal. TPK.
"it was only one death..but we did it, somebody died.".... -IT BEGINS!!! BWAAHAHAHA!!
Also, why not follow it up with Tomb of Annihilation? Then you can make them fear death again, play on grinder mode, and they can still get a final showdown with Acererak.
+Michael Schmidt there has been talk of playing tomb of Annihilation! I think they want to finish the next Arch in our homebrew game first
Maybe time for some foreshadowing then. ;-) Maybe with actual shadows.
They must FIIIIGHT! I'd say for sure ask to danger room the lich for funsies.
Basically what everyone already said
Let it be a great memory and move on to the next campaign.
The players won't remember besting YOU, the DM, but a Demilich and after hearing that great plan, I woulda fudged the roll anyway and gave it to them
Did the bracelets work im about to run this and im thinking of offering it to my players
Keep in mind i have 2 players at level 20
It kept them alive, there is a lot of instadeath in Tomb of Horrors that even being level 20 won't save you from.
Leave it as it is. You can't recreate the moment, the right mood, and your players won't be as invested as they were when they first ran into Acererak. I'd say...take that note, and do it differently the next time you run it for another group, and see if they come up with something cool as well.
Wanna say...great ending, don't mind the legendary resistance. I think it's a great way of ending it, so...well done to you and your players :)
Thanks! :D
So, is this module related to Tomb of Annihilation at all?
Not at all, except Acererak is involved in both.
Jorphdan ah. I read the summary of ToA and my wife noped the hell out of that one. It sounds like a meat grinder, similar to ToH.
How many sessions did it take you to run and how long are your sessions? Also, did you use the version in Tales from the Yawning Portal? Just curious. My fiance' is running Tomb of Annihilation soon and I was thinking about running ToH as a prequel to her game. I have this idea on how our character's ancestors had to deal with Acererak 200 years ago as a way to build up the suspense.
+EmeraldJEM710 we have three hour sessions and it took about four sessions. And yes I ran it from tales of the yawning portal
Hey jorphdan I'd like to make a request, can you please do a video on the Horn of Valhalla? I can't seem to find lore on it, maybe you can. Thank you.
+TheCold Knight I'll see what I can find! Is it an item?
I wouldn't feel bad as the main reason it isn't ball busting hard as it used to be is because 5E isn't as brutal as AD&D was. There just aren't as many insta kill spells and traps like then, so don't sweat it.
honestly, ignore legendary resistance. I use it to give my creatures a reroll on their save instead of Insta success
They were creative but their idea shouldn’t have worked. Sometimes that happens. They had fun, so it wasn’t a failure. However, I don’t think they experienced The Tomb of Horrors. It’s like bowling a 300 with the bumpers up. You were bowling and you may have had fun, but it isn’t the same.
Im commenting here partualy just ro be the 100th comentater. But I am writing a campaign that is reminisant of the toomb of horrors. I apresiate what you said that you were having more fun after you shifted your perspective to that you were actuly trying to kill the players.
The simplicity is because 3, 4, and 5e are more player friendly and overall less deadly. It is a far different story in 1 and 2e.
I think you are too concerned about the party winning the game and TOH is the module that allows DM to let himself win. You could have let guys be happy for that second and then they congratulating them self, you start lathing in the voice of the Demi Lich, saying- Are you happy, are you satisfied? Do you know where you are insects? You at my Tomb!!! I was intrigued by mortals who have bested my dungeon and you try to trap me, outwit me!!! I Am undying king I AM YOUR END! And just counterspell or whatever he can do and more, and cast finger of death to kill a guy who cast banishment. But I think you have to go into the tomb of horrors with an idea- if they meet final boss-they die. But you are da best, great job on a video and your players had so much fun and its most important thing:)
Lair traits (not actions) seems to me to stop banishment anyway.
My opinion on how to run ToH and it is only opinion:
I think it is best played as true to original as possible. I am going to run this in a couple of weeks and all of the save or die from the original will be there. But that is because our mindset on this is different from our normal play. It is, lets see how far we can get in a campaign that is not remotely fair. It will be the exception to the rule. It will be player vs DM. And it will be fun for all of us. The frustration (ironic as it may be) is part of that. Talking about how pissed and cheated you felt after-the -fact is actually fun cuz we know its just the way that campaign is. Running with 5e mechanics makes it easier by default anyway. The nerfing they did in the 5e reprint is unnecessary and damaging to the original intent and feel of it (again personal opinion). People think that they beat ToH and wonder why it has the reputation it has (not exactly the same thing). Some may disagree and think it makes it better to have the player “feel good” about that. I personally think it cheapens the legacy of the module.
Im trying not to oversell it either but i told the players its best to make new characters cuz its not meant to be fair. They understand and want to see how it is. They said, “dont go easy on us.” So i wont and it will be a fun change of pace.
Life's lessons are free, but can be cruel
I had the worst dnd sessions I've had while playing dnd. Three of my characters died within the two sessions that I played. I did have fun but it sucked that all three I played died (one was brought back to life)
Was the character that cast banishment the same one that cast magic circle? If so, you REALLY messed up 😂.
Yeah... 5th edition in general is more geared towards the PC’s survival than most of the other editions, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the infamous Tomb of Horrors was watered down.... not owning the 5th version, I am not sure this is a fact, but I suspect it is
5th edition is just easyer in general
No legendary resistances?
Edit: nvm lol
I don't think it was your fault, or that you run the ToH "wrong". Legendary resistance or not.
I really think that 5e (or even 4e or 3.x) isn't the system for the Tomb of Horrors. It was designed at the beginnings of the D&D system back in 1975, and then upgraded to AD&D (1e). The lethality of the Tomb comes with the system it's being paired with.
Back in AD&D, your character died at 0hp. No death saves, no negative hit points. In AD&D 2nd you could have the "hovering on death's door" rule and reach -10hp... but it was still quite lethal. Also, healing magic wasn't nearly as powerful (and you needed to prepare the spells beforehand, no "changing one divine spell into healing magic"). Cure light wounds (lvl.1 spell) only healed 1d8hp. Cure serious wounds (lvl.4 spell) healed 2d8+1hp. Cure critical wounds (lvl.5 spell) healed 3d8+3hp. There were no variables based on the priest level, those amounts were fixed. And there wasn't any "Mass heal".
So, the Tomb can't be as lethal in a rules system that values character resiliency so much. Where the characters are supposed to continue living, so as to bring opportunities of growth and stories (and emphasis of ROLEplaying that wasn't present in the 70's, when this module was created).
Tomb of Horrors was created at a time when D&D had just evolved from wargaming. Even before D&D was called a "roleplaying game". And when characters were anonymous and two-dimensional. Barely a name and some stats. There wasn't so much attachment to them. A PC dying was no big deal. So little attachment there was, that even the names were just jokes and anagrams (Robilar, Tenser, Serten, Bigby, Rigby, Melf, Rary, etc.). Very little thought put into them.
I'm actually a grognard, so I miss those old days. With a couple of exceptions (in 3.x), I've never played any D&D version past AD&D 2e. Still play AD&D 2e, it's my favorite version (due to a mix between the old-school feel and more options than 1e).
I say, let the past remain in the past. 5e seems geared towards a little bit more of character development and roleplaying, than the pure and true "death-trap filled dungeon crawl" of the late 70's and early 80's. Continue with that style. 5e it's too lenient and forgives too many rash actions and poorly thought decisions, for it to be a good fit for Tomb of Horrors. AD&D was brutal in that respect (but I've played even more brutal systems, so I don't feel it so much).
Hm… inspiring! I’d say roll out in the open, then once the cheering is over, say he refuses to fail. :)
I have not played 5E, however I have run this module multiple times over the years, using 1st edition through pathfinder and I have a few comments. This module was intended to reward player skill instead of character power. There is usually a way to proceed through the tomb with little damage if the players are extremely careful, and many parties have done so throughout the years. The tombs bad reputation is due to the many DMs that have just dropped this module into their campaigns, without giving their players any warning, something the author warned against in the original publication. You may have gone a little overboard on this but given that your players had a great time, I would give that a pass. They are feeling great about themselves and the game right now which means that you are doing a great job. Don't spoil it by making them fight the lich again. That said, applying some lessons that you learned this time in the future would be in order. The lich is intended to be nearly unbeatable, but with one key weakness. At least as originally written, the skull would remain inert as long as it wasn't touched. The player could completely loot the tomb as long as they were very careful to leave the skull alone.
Playing it again won't recapture everything that builds before the final fight, and will probably only diminish the experience. But I do think you diminished the experience some by making The Tomb easier to beat. We beat it in '70 only because we had some really clever players and we had spent a ton of time with our characters. (We decided not to use temp characters).
A Matt Colville fan. Dooblydoo
Traps really a trap killed somebody that's just sad I guess there's something to be said about a sorcerer that always keeps animate body and Magic hand ready to go keep a small bag of bones with you animated send it to explore for traps and if it gets destroyed by traps and the bones are still salvageable if you pull them back with magic hand no muss no fuss and you stay far enough away that you stay out of harm kind of also a good reason to carry a 6-foot iron pole
As someone who played the original ToH, it kinda does sound like 5e made it easier. Then again, I'm a DM now, and not a player anymore.
5e design as a whole is more forgiving than older versions of D&D. I don't think the dungeon changed much just the system that approaches it. Still fun to experience though!
@@Jorphdan Oh, no doubt it's still fun. But in my opinion, it almost feels like 5e is geared towards low level play, making sure that not everything is as dangerous as it was in previous editions. For me, the most exciting parts are when I used to be at the edge of death, then came back at full force.
Leave it where it's at. Mistakes happen, the story told. It is done.
I love the old one and there was more oh you roll low your dead. 5e has seen a lot easier to me as well
Id leave it as is. Dont do the battle again. You can always have them meet up with Acerak again in Chult. He didnt die and your players felt that huge release of success. The lich lives in u knowing that the success was only temporary. They must now follow to end him once and for all.
This is what i would do: everything played, is played, in the end demilich survive, they got a nasty archenemy. I would make the demilich repop later to annihilate the PC's as been banished/trapped is no fun. So roll with it, start new scenario, like 2 - 3 sessions on new stuff, but inject the evil demilich in at session 4 :D cheers
I think this was a one shot though.
your players (and you) should have known about legendary resistances going into the fight, but in case they don't see this video I would advise against telling them that you "messed up" and they won because you forgot a (crucial) piece of info/rules, it'll rob them of their victory
Tomb of Horrors or Annihilation?
Horrors, From Tales of the Yawning Portal.
From your description you played it wrong. The Tomb of Horrors is supposed to be a meat grinder.
Seems fine. I'm going waaaaay worse than you did.
SPOILER.......I have seen some player use the crown and scepter to melt Acererak
This is why I don't care for legendary resistance as a DM and a player, I think it hinders creativity like this.
I don't see how you can think you over prepared your players. The lethality of that dungeon is well known. I'm not sure how experienced in DND your players are, but chances are must experienced players would know of it and prepare. But not warning newer players would have just handicapped then for not knowing dndb lore
personally i think the lair and legendary actions are a bit BS
Harry Potter and the tomb of horrors
wtf Jorphdan... everybody knows bosses have legendary resistances... now you have to run it again with them but this time using the old school ToH
Solution is female Jordan - Go re-watch Overlord