9-11-2023 Praise our first responders. When I started driving professionally, I was informed to never allow the pyro to hit 1200. I could do very serious damage to the engine. So I held to that reasoning. even though this is 7 years ago It really hits home. These drivers today have no idea what this is about since the computer will not allow it to happen.
my company uses cat and cummins isx. the intermodal uses 579s and volvos with 600 hp isx and the flatbed and heavy haul uses cat c15s and c18s. we have a c500 with a quad turbo 3412 (1300+ hp) for 150 ton heavy hauls. the cummins dont break down much and get 8+ mpg and seem to be money makers. the cats (especially the c18s) have more power but burn more fuel. break downs are not common theyre both pretty solid. if i was an owner operator it would be a volvo with a cummins over a 379 with a c15 or c18.
I am confirmed. I read the Pittsburgh Power past articles in a Truck magazine. "Cannot understand why rebuild and not also increase rhe horsepower?" and "The rebuild price is about the same for a. 350HP as it is a 550HP engine" and "Improve fuel mileage" "You only live once'". I am benefiting from longevity with a low rated 370-435HP Cummins N14 Celect Plus (It is to increase the horsepower and torque in the last two gears only when going up a grade). I do actually feel it kuck in at times. It has 43.5k hours and over one million miles. Day cab undef 4.7k idle hours. Intermodal also helps: I am not hauling steel or heavy liquids. Most loads I pull are are under 30k lbs net. I am empty 50% of the time. I do care about gradeability: I just run my low horsepower N14 at 1450-1600 when loaded and chop my way the upper midwest hills. Eaton 13-Speed allows me to stay in the aforementioned range 95% of the time from 20MPH to 65MPH. I drove and MBE 4000 for a while with a 10-speed. Good low end for the bottom eight gears dow to 1,000. Poor Volvo Detroit lije gradabimity losing 10MPH up 3% grades. Cats may be the most poweful engine but in my experience they are also rhe most thirsty. I average 6.25-6.5 with my N14.
I did a rerate to my 3126. It was gutless, 175hp. Dealer said I could go to 190 with no changes. 210 if I changed the turbo, or 230 if I did the turbo and injectors. I’m sure injectors would’ve been pricey, so I installed a reman turbo. It seemed the only difference was the new turbo has a wastegate. Then I had them do the rerate. It’s still slow, but definitely noticed it has more power.
Cummins in Amarillo Tx did just that to my 97 freightliner with a N-14. I went from 435hp ( 1600 trany torque ) to 525hp ( 1850 Trany torque ) and daammmmm that’s a beast now. Cost ???? $$$ 350
If your Cat dealer has dyno I would also recommend a PAR dyno. Just because you engine flash file is for 500hp it doesn't guarantee your engine is producing 500hp. The engine is run on a dyno at the factory when it was build and the fuel rates were adjusted to with in normally 1 or 2 hp of what ever your rating happens to be. In some rare cases after an engine has been fully broken it or is several years old it can be up to 15 to 20hp low at the rated RPM and sometimes even more in the usable RPM range of 1100-1600RPM. If the dealer has a PAR certified dyno they can adjust the fuel rates back up to meet or slightly exceed factory specs for your engine rating. I have always recommended doing a PAR dyno before doing a top end and not after. The reason for this is if you valve lash is on the loose side you are loosing valve lift and reducing hp, when the injector rockers and rollers seat in and start to wear this normally retards timing reducing hp and throttle responce. Doing the PAR dyno before to top end set will compensate for this and bring your hp back up to spec. Then when you have your top end set it will advance the injection timing and the tighter valve lash will increase the valve lift for on average of about a 10hp gain. Not a huge number but in some cases every little bit helps. It might be helpful for some guys if you have a video to better explain what a PAR dyno is. In some cases it may not be available since most dealers don't invest in the required building separate from the shop, the very expensive dyno equipment and the trained technicians to operate it due to the low demand and profit. Hope this helps
The highest torque rating you can get is 2050 for the transmissions but trucks at sled pulls put out 3,000 plus foot lbs through these or lower rating transmissions with no problems. It's all about proper use of the transmission.
A re-rate here At Blanchard in Summerville SC according to them is 750 for the Cat password to get into the ECM then 2 hrs labor. About a grand. I'll run my c15 475 and like it for a bit longer.
This was useful in trying to understand why an engine with 775,000 (Mack) might fail if the HP was increased from 415 to 485. FYI, over-runs on the engines were eight with each instance being more than a half hour! Must have been some enormous hills to descend. Again, I am neither a mechanic nor driver so I don't know. But I do know that the only change to the engine in the shop was software - no hardware at all.
Just bought another MBN C15, @ 435HP. Had CAT turn it up to 525HP, as it states on the passenger side of the motor. You have to find the right CAT tech for the job, because I've found out that most guys won't do it.
Adept Ape thanks for video . I have c15 6ng single turbo . My fuel mileage is around 4 mpg . I put new turbo and manifold by cat but fuel mileage is still 4 mpg . Need some help
Yeah this what I do to electric Cummins motors, I take em to the Diesel Doctor I'm Effingham, IL and have him turn the motors up via file thru the ECM port. He normally turns em up to max 600hp 2050 ft/lbs torque if it's a non dpf motor or max 550hp 1850 ft/lbs torque for a dpf motor! I just didn't know it was called a rerate!
I built a 3406E for a customer 5Ek was the stock engine family He wanted a serious up grade and buying all cat parts we put 6nz parts on his engine loaded liners head , cam, injectors and turbo being 19k in parts we had a rerate for the Ecm print out was 550 hp @ 1400+- rpm 1300 +- torque at 1400rpm i think it was a genset file not sure but oh man that truck will pull 100k up hills in sc like nothing else in the area kinda like it doesnt care how much weight it pulls never more that a dark grey cloud of exhaust smoke and clearing right up. The man is super pleased with his engine after 10years. Question educated guess on power at 2300rpms the print out states hp and torque at a very low rpm setting it would be interesting to know what it has at high idle
Wowzers, you get alot of comments! I don't know how you keep up with them all. I must say that I love your channel. Your devotion to educating others about CAT diesels is really cool! I enjoyed studying the C7 engine family re-rate chart you showed in this video. Do you have a chart of these families for the 3126B/3126E? It would be very interesting to look at (I like numbers!). I'm thinking about buying a bus and considering the T444E and 3126 as possible choices, but it will be a while before I can afford one. I know little about the CAT motors, but I've been learning quite a bit watching your channel. As a side note...do you ever plan to do a video on how to set the injectors (synchronization) for a 3116? I have no need for this, but just find the topic really interesting. I imagine there aren't that many out there these days, but probably still a few. I know a guy who used to work at a CAT dealership and said they were an awful pain to do. He was the only one in the shop who could (or would) do them. Thanks for any information you have. Keep up the great videos!
+Jonathan Bopp I used to reply to every comment before, but I don't have enough time for that now. I'm not sure when I'll do a 3116 rack sync video. We only get them about every 6 months, but I'm the lucky guy that gets to do them. They are very tedious to do. It isn't that they are crazy hard it is just a ton of little steps and the Cat instructions are hard to follow. As far as the 3126 rerate chart, probably won't be putting that up online because it is much more difficult to follow. It is much more component dependent and is several pages long.
I can see where keeping up with so many comments would be time-consuming. I figured you didn't see too many 3116s these days, but I know they are still out there. I rode on a 1995 Bluebird GMC bus for years and it had the 3116. It never failed us, but was a real dog starting out...particularly on a hill. The turbo lag on them (or at least the later models) was something awful. The mechanic I knew said that they used to get that complaint at the dealer constantly. He said they would put the bus in gear and push down the pedal to see how many seconds it took the engine to reach a specific rpm. If the time was too long, there was an adjustment screw you could adjust to turn up the pre-boost fuel. I realize doing a video on that would be tedious and time-consuming. I know the timing of when you get one also might not be at a convenient time to do a vid. From the little I know, the process is vaguely similar to Detroit's "rack" system. Ah, so it would seem that a re-rate on a 3126 would involve more than than flashing the ECM in most cases. I had just assumed that it was similar to the C7s. If you ever get motivated, I'd still find the chart interesting, even if nobody else did. I love specifications and numbers. Thanks for all you do for all those who watch. I'm going to send you a donation this evening. :)
My 550hp 6nz now runs around 700hp. Different turbo and program. I can not make my exhaust temp go over 1000 degrees without severely lugging the engine. Stock form it easily climbed higher. There is a good way and bad way to add power. Anyone I've known that has done a factory cat rerate has noticed little to no difference. Love your videos though. Thanks for what you do
+Mitch Less I'm sure there are ways to tune your engine better than factory, but it is easier to mess up than make it run better. Sounds like you know what your doing. Glad you like the channel.
A ecm comes a dime a dozen. Just need to know the right people. I goto computer king in Dickinson tx. They warranty everything. And if you have a faulty one, they’ll hook it up to they’re truck. But I had a faulty one and came out at $850 with core.
THAT was the most enlightening information that I've had in a very long time!THANK YOU!!!Just a thought,I wonder does that apply to all BRANDS?Like I said,just a thought!
awesome video, I'm quite interested in hearing more about the tuning end of things with not only Cats but on diesels in general. keep up the good work my friend.
Thank you for the kind words. The tuning on these engines can get pretty intense, but I just wanted to show that there is also a Cat certified alternative to the aftermarket.
i still find it hilarious that you can plug in a computer and load a tune for a 550 or 600 horse C15 onto a motor that originally had 425-435 from the factory. perks of having a Cat versus a Cummins or Detroit lol.
I have a 2005 lexion combine with C9 engine. It's at 360 hp. Can we safely add more hp? Not driving the snot out of it. Just need a boost once in a while
Can you rerate to the fire/Rv ratings now that the 3126 are beyond any factory warranties? I have a 190hp 3126 in a 2001 C5500 and would like at least to be at the 300/860 mark but more is better. I have seen the PDI tune/turbo/manifold aftermarket options but not sure if worth putting on a such a low HP engine. I assume it would be cheaper just to find a running used engine in the HP range I’m looking for. What do you think is the most cost effective way to change 190hp into 300hp?
Forgive me, I know you get a million questions! If you don't have time, maybe some of the other guys can help. I'm try to find information on the best operating rpm range for a 2001 C-15 6NZ single turbo pre-emission. I'm averaging 6.0 mpg and normally keep it around 1400 rpm's in whatever gear for the speed limit and try not to let it get over 1800 rpms under jake down hill. I'm looking at a chart for horsepower put out by "Road Choice" Truck parts online and it references a 500 hp testing at 2100 rpm's putting out 1850 ft lbs. 2100 is not a working range is it??!! Again we truly appreciate all that you do for us!!
Peak torque is at 1200 rpm. If I remember right 2120 rpm will be your top engine speed limit. You get your torque down low and your horsepower up high. A lot of people dont want to lug the engine but a C-15 can take it, and really its where the torque is. If its running right you shouldn't have no problem pulling right out of it. Generally keeping the rpm low most of the time is gonna make the engine last longer. I overhauled one for a guy one time who kept his rpm low and changed oil religiously. It had over a million miles on it and the rod and main bearings looked brand new. 6NZ is a legend so make sure you hang on to it and keep rebuilding it.
I am considering deleting the regen system on a C15 to add horse power and decreasing maintenance cost which have been very expensive. I saw your video on rerate if successful I would be adding horse power but would still be stuck with the regen maintenance cost. I have spoken with others that deleted the regen and increased horse power and received better milage. Your thoughts please
good morning adept,I want to thanks you for the videos that you have make us,I really learn alot of things from them,pls can you make video for me,a video of how to drup and engine from the a track☺☺
my friend has a 3406b 7fb with 40 psi+ lbs. of manifold pressure it will go higher but he said the turbo he has the guy who sold it to him said 40 psi was the max and the pry never goes over 900 he owned this truck for many years like this and get 7mpg on the highway and when im behind him I never see any smoke come out the stacks
Very nice info. Hey boss, where are you from?. I got 1.3 mill on my pete 379 with cat, c15mxs. Start leaking right next to head. May be you can help me. Can you? Thanks
Hey watsup man, I'm rebuilding a 05 mxs c15. I'm converting it to a single turbo. I'm curious what do you think about putting in the marine cam?? I hear it adds 100hp
+GoodVibeGetDown They can add more power, but a cam just gets more air in and out, you would need more fuel as well, which means you'll need some injector work or tuning.
+mehmet g Well the C15 is the standard truck engine, it is heavier and 15 liters of displacement. The C15 makes more power and torque and is an overhead cam engine. The C13 is usually found in buses and some trucks. It is 13 liters of displacement and is a pushrod engine. Both use Mechanical Electronic Unit Injectors with a gear drive oil pump and water pump. The C13 is more sensitive to overheats causing damage and the C15 has more problems with its overhead and liner flanges.
I have Cat ET at my work. I mostly use it for diagnosing fault codes on C7 Cats in school buses. My dad just bought a 2000 Kenworth with a C-15 6NZ 475 HP engine in it. He is complaining about the lack of pulling power in it compared to his old 3406C. Am I able to rerate his engine for him with my basic Cat ET program? If so, do you think you could make a video of it? Or at least explain where to find it in ET? I don’t work on Cat much, usually Cummins. On a Cummins I would just download a file from QuickServe.
I have a c-15 serial SDP how can I find the chart that you used in this video to see how high I can go with my HP This is in a 2008 Pete and it had been deleted by 2nd previous owner. Shows 475hp on the computer but KW tech said it could be different HP because it has been deleted is this correct and how can I find out what the HP is? thank you for your time.
what is the main difference between the software within the same family? do cat raise the oil pressure to get more power and perhaps some duration? surely you've looked at some data and noticed something ! thanks and great videos!
+Turners Garage Its really all fuel. Since the oil pressure is controlled by the oil pump and bearing clearances there isn't much software can do to affect it. It can affect the fuel rate though. If you do a rerate you'll notice that the rated fuel limit will change, which means the engine can inject more fuel which means more power.
ahh i see, i miss understood how the system worked i assumed it would be similar to an isuzu 4jx1 engine i run that apparently has an injection system designed by cat, which is heui but has a rail pressure control valve on the pump which can control rail pressure. i am very keen on getting to know this type of injection system better as i remap a lot of new holland foragers and recently i have been asked to look into a c18 powered one which obviously i will approach with great caution!
I have an old 3406b, I’ve watched most of your videos but haven’t seen what you have described as my issue. The turbo wasn’t getting the boost it’s supposed to, so I changed the turbo, before watching your video. It helped a little but still not what it was. The motor rpms seem to rise fast without building boost. Changing fuel filter and air filter and still nothing. No fuel leaks either. What should the fuel pressure be on these? Above 80 psi??
im looking for a pre emission truck and found a pete 379 with a 3406 5ek engine with 550 hp with new platinum overhaul from cat would that increase in hp damage engine from overheating. its probably a different pistons pack but all that extra heat what u think ?
Go into et configure with retarter Free hp nothing else needed. Already wrote into software Give you about 15% more power Looks like your blowing alot of white smoke
Hey Regal, I do work on them, Cat used a DPF with its ARD heads on the 2007-2010 engines. They also used EGR, but they called it CGI, but it is pretty much EGR, I should do one on DPFs, as all new trucks have them.
ya i just purchased a new truck with both EGR/CGI and DPF and they are both completely foreign pieces of equipment to me. Any videos would be great. thanks and keep up the good work. The words in your post regarding CAT were all past tense. Did CAT stop using these emission parts on their new engines?
+Regal2800 So Cat stopped production of truck engines a few years ago unfortunately. I believe 2010 was the last year of production. I will try to make a DPF video in the future, I think many people would enjoy that, plus you always leave comments and I try to take feedback into account for future videos. I've been getting a lot of C15 overhead requests so I'm going to try and do one of those soon too, but am waiting to work on an overhead.
Hi I have a few questions , First I have a 2001 Pete 379 with a C-15 6NZ . I am a John Deere Agricultural field tech with 20 years of Deere experience I work with a laptop daily we use a Data link the same as Cat to upload payloads and files . The questions I have are , I am looking at purchasing a laptop and data link with Cat ET installed I want to be able to hook up to my truck and tune the HP , also pull codes when needed and perform diagnostics . I have heard a lot of talk about flashing the ecm and also talk of Mapping the ecm what is the difference , also were can I get these flash files and how will I know which one is the correct one . Are they On cat SIS ? any info would be great Thanks.
+farmerjoe338 The flash file is what sets the horsepower, there really isn't any mapping you can do. You can mess with the FLS and FTS setting, but that requires a factory password. The flash file is also going to require a factory password. The flash file is downloaded from Cat.
Makes total sense Deere does the same thing where you have to be a dealer tech with a password to do things such as this . I am trying to figure out how this guy on TH-cam Steven Bradford ( aka catlepuller ) is getting the horsepower and getting these kitty cats to do what they are doing . I asked him and he said he maps the ECM could you please watch some of his vids and give me your opinion it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you my friend .
I have a c13 in a 07 freighter with the smart shift trans I was told we need to have the transmission put in performance mode but none of our cat shops around here have never heard of that would you have any suggestions
I work for Finning/CAT in Canada. I've been toying with the idea of throwing a 3126 or C7 in a pickup as I've already put a 6BT cummins in an F350 and want to try something different. From what I've seen, these engines highest ratings are for emergency vehicles and is around 330/350hp, but the marine engines are rated at somewhere around 450hp. Do you think it's possible to get the software for the marine engines to work on an industrial? I know cooling capabilities is probably the biggest issue but I'm just curious. My end goal would be making somewhere north of 500hp with compound turbos and whatever mechanical fuel modifications I could do.
+Max Mcrae I think the best way to go about it would be getting a marine engine to start with because the injectors, turbo, software, cam, and pistons are probably all different. Then you just need your throttle, cruise....Etc inputs.
Kinda off topic, what would it cost to do a rebuild on a 3406b? I’m seeing them go on eBay for rebuild goin for $4000. The truck I’m looking to buy has a 444 extra trouble cummins, I’m sold on the cats but wonder what it would cost to rebuild one. I’m planning on doing it my self
The cost to rebuild a B-Model honestly depends on how far you want to go into it. CAT doesn't offer a rebuild kit for these engines, but I work at a CAT dealer so I can give you some recommendations. That is outside of the obvious cylinder head, pistons, liners, bearings, gaskets, etc.. Having the pump rebuilt and bench tested is kind of expensive, but it makes all the difference in how the engine runs. You definitely want to get the timing advance rebuilt because 9 times out of 10 the fly weights are beat all to hell. Upgrading to the steel top pistons is a good idea because the original aluminum ones were known to crack across the top..or melt when people start turning screws and jacking with the timing. Upgrading to the dual piston cooling jets and the higher flow oil pump is also a good idea if your doing a rebuild. There are updated bypass valves and springs you can get too that go inside the oil filter base. I've seen several that have had broken thrust plates for the bull gear so watch out for that. Actually just replace the thrust plate it don't cost much, and the last the you want is for the bull gear to start trying to chew its way out the front cover. Its not pretty. I recommend installing a 6NZ flywheel too because its much easier to get the right clutch for it. The 6NZ flywheel has a bigger center than the B-model one does. Big center clutch won't bolt up to a small center flywheel, ask me how I know lol. Check all of the high pressure fuel lines and the jumper lines around the ends cause I've seen those crack, and make sure you get any of the hold downs for the fuel lines that may be missing because again, the lines will crack. If a jumper line cracks you'll start getting fuel in the oil. Its a good idea to reseal the big square cover on the left side of the block while you have the fuel pump out of the way. The "B" on the washers under the Jake Brake housings need to be facing up. Its not CAT part, but get a return spring for the throttle lever..don't be that guy. If you replace the nozzles its a good idea to go to a CAT dealer and get them to get you the right ones for your engine. That is extremely important because of different spray angles and sealing washer thicknesses. You don't want to be washing out the cylinders among other things. One thing people forget about a lot too is the ratio control diaphragm. Just replace it cause you're gonna need that little guy. Two things that might be hard for you to check is the block and the crank. The hardness of the crank really should be checked unless the journals just look amazing. Normally its not something you'd think about, but I have seen two B-models with what they call a "soft crank" and they wouldn't polish out. The deck flatness should be checked and it might even need to be counterbored. ALL 3406E/C-15/C15 engines NEED to be counterbored when rebuilt. I cant remember if B-models are included in that or not but I do know that there are two different spacer plate thickness available to help get projection in spec. Liner projection is extremely important with any 3406/C-15/C15 CAT engine. If its not right you're either gonna keep blowing head gaskets or cracking liner flanges, which is why the deck flatness and liner projection need to be in spec. CAT has been really hot on this topic the last couple years because of the repeated head gasket failures caused by people not building these engine the right way. If there is any pitting in the lower liner bores you can patch it with steel putty and sand it down to keep from cutting an o-ring, but if its down into where the top liner o-ring seals then you're gonna need to have lower liner inserts installed otherwise you'll eventually start getting coolant in the oil. Not filling the radiator with 70% tap water and making sure the radiator is grounded will prevent this from happening. A lot of this is the unexpected stuff you run into that makes it hard to tell someone how much its gonna cost out the door. You can't possibly know for sure till you get the engine tore down. Idk how experienced you are with engines, but honestly if you're not familiar with them I'd recommend going to a CAT dealer and having them make you a quote for a rebuild if you decide to get a B-model. There's a lot of little things on those engines that can make it run like raped ape if its right or fall on its face going over a speed bump if its not. Its not like rebuilding an electronic engine. Plus by having a dealer do it you can get OPT warranty which is absolutely worth it. Then you don't have anything to worry about if it grenades itself lol. Sorry for the long comment but even if you didn't get the B-Model hopefully I mentioned a few things you or anyone reading this didn't know and found helpful. I cant legally tell you how to hop up a CAT though so don't ask lol. I will say I've seen these aftermarket flash files and modded ECMs before and it usually only ends up costing the customer more trouble than its worth. If you have a MXS/NXS a dealer can build it back to a 625 hp engine with 2050 ft.lbs of torque at the flywheel with all CAT parts and a CAT flash file, and even warranty. Keep in mind your clutch and trans though, and you usually need a taller radiator and/or cooler thermostats cause she's gonna be sweatin. P.S: I do love a good B-model but I'd probably recommend a 6NZ, 1LW, 2WS, or a MBN. 5EK and 6TS are good options too. 7CZ is actually a 600hp C-16 if you can find one. Stay away from a SDP or LEE unless Maxxforce is the only alternative.. and never under any circumstances let yourself fall into the ownership of a CAT truck. The only thing CAT on that pile of junk is the transmission..if its an automatic.
Nick Forgey the early b engines still had steel fire rings under the liners. The later engines did not the ones without will almost always need to be cut for liner shims to get the protrution right. If you are doing an out there of frame rebuild I would recommend having the entire block checked. Check the crank bores for alinment have the deck milled and fire rings installed. I rebuilt my 1988 3406b in 2003 parts cost me $5500 Iused IPD parts not cat and she ran great. My previous truck had a 3406a 325hp factory rating after I did my rebuild and tune to that engine she dynoed just shy of 385hp to the road and I drove her for 9 years after that rebuild
I've wondered about the C7s in the more recent BAE military 2.5 tons from the teens, would they be in the emergency family? Really I'd wondered because it was the military ordering them with the wide range of fuel requirement, were they saddled with the same emissions kits as the civilian trucks from the same years?
It would hurt more than it would help without changing injectors, pistons, turbo, and flash file too. A C15 (MXS/NXS) can be built back to 625 hp and 2050 ft.lbs of torque though. Ive done three or four that way so far.
Zeigler CAT of Rochester, Minnesota says that they don't/won't do a re-rate. States that CAT "won't allow us to." Is this common? They sent me next door to Rochester Diesel. They say 100HP for @ $2000 parts/labor. That seems odd. It's a 2000 3126 f650 that started out as a 26' box truck , shortened & now has an f350 box. It's just a big toy I use to tow my 42' travel trailer a couple times a year. Not sure now exactly what to do. I'm just looking for an improvement in fuel economy. Any suggestions?
I have a problem with a truck I am working on and $3600 and counting haven't been able to get it running . Is there a contact or place I can get in touch with you regarding this truck . 2006 F650 C7 Acert engine - replaced cam, cam followers , rod bearings , crank bearings, oil pump , 3 ecm's , engine wiring harness
Is it possible to rerate a 190hp (520 ft lbs) 3126B to the high torque 210 hp rating (605 ft lbs torque) without changing components such as injectors, turbo, pistons, etc.? Or is it not possible for you to answer without a specific engine serial number? I see many 190 hp buses, but I rarely see anything higher on the conventional school buses. If I end up buying one, it would be helpful to know if those 190 hp models can be up-rated without major expense. Thanks, Jonathan
+Jonathan Bopp I would need a specific serial number to tell you exactly, but I looked up a very similar thing the other day and if I remember right you can rerate between the 190-210 HP or the 520-605 TQ without any components changed. There is also a 210 520 torque rating. These are considered the "low power" ranges. The next step is 230 HP and 660 TQ, which is mid range and they require a bunch of stuff including pistons if I remember correctly.
That all sounds like I would have expected and seems to be very similar to the C7 rerate chart you had posted. To me, the 210 520 would be very little difference from the 190 (as peak torque on both is 520), just a bit more top end. The 210 605 would really give some strong lugging torque in the lower rpms. Just wasn't sure if the high torque setting required different components. If I come across one I'm serious about, I'll send the serial number so that it can be checked. Thanks man!
I did some looking and actually found the correct OEM engine serial number on a separate tag (oops!). It also matched the serial number that showed up in the engine computer. The number is CKM52816. Hopefully this is a valid serial number. I ordered some t-stats with that number and they said it was good. Will this engine take the 210 hp 605 ft lb reflash without component changes? I can check with Allison on the transmission later on if I decide I'm going to do it.
So I'm not very seasoned in this stuff. My question is how this really effects the output of the engine. We've had a couple peterbilts that are twin turbo acert motors. Not sure of the mxs, bxs etc, but one was a factory 475 and the other was 550 from the factory. The 475 was rerated to a 550 but I can say it does not pull like the 550 from the factory. there's a definite difference. Gearing and transmissions are the same. Can you explain why this is? What's the difference mechanically and electronically from the 475 and the 550? It seems whatever they came as from the factory is what they operate best at.
+Justin Hood The twin turbo Cats use the exact same components from 475 to 550. There are differences if you go above that for a heavy haul or RV engine, but you are dealing with the same injectors, valve lash, camshaft, everything. My guess would be the rerated engine has a problem like a boost leak or low fuel pressure.
Torque Rating on the Motor could also be different as well. If there is Nothing Wrong with that Motor, then it is the Torque Rating on the Motor. My guess is that The 550 HP Motor is a 1850 Torque and The 475 HP Motor is a 1550/1650 Torque Motor.
hi fellow oil burner, I must ask. what do you think of those who increase the diesel but not the boost, doesn't this raise egt to piston melting temps?
I personally am not a fan of pushing more fuel into these engines than they were designed for. Raising those egts can cause premature turbocharger failure, cracked manifolds, and damaged mufflers as well as possible damage to internal engine parts. Some guys like to play with their engines though and many have success with adding power and some of the engines still seem to last quite a long time. If I ran a truck I would want to increase my fuel economy more than making extra HP, but everyone is different.
+Leroy “RotoRo” Rowe Well most turbos already have a waste gate, and waste gates only limit boost. So if you adjusted or put a different wastegate on a turbo with one already, you could increase your boost by not limiting the boost as much, but not increase the boost.
There are other single turbo C15 engines, but yep once they went to ACERT they had Twin Turbos and the serial numbers with those are the BXS, MXS, NXS, and the regen SDP. Well before the 3406E was the older mechanical 3406B and 3406A models, there was also a 3408, which was a V8 version of the engine, but they are pretty old.
Hey AA, I have an old Pete with a sweet-running 4mg 3406b with only 150k orig miles. I've seen some "turn up the fuel" posts on the web, but do you have any videos/advice on doing that to the old mechanicals? Also wondering if the "family" thing applies to the older engines like mine. Thanks! Best videos on youtube!
+dobb673 So the yes your engine is the 3406 and C15 family, just the older version. We don't do any hot rodding in our shop so I can't really say what is the best way to turn up your old B model. They are somewhat easy to do though as you don't have emissions to worry about you can play with the injectors, fuel pump, and turbo, but man that is an expensive hobby.
What can I do to get more hill pulling power out of my 3208T? It's in a motorhome, pulling hills can be a pain, struggling at 35 mph on some hills.. bigger turbo? Fuel adjustment?
I have a couple of questions on rerate 1. when you rerate is there a program that changes to horse power and I don't know what you call it but is like changing from pulling a dry van to a heavy haul? 2. I have the computer and the cat et and also the flash files and password generator programs just not really sure how to use is there a computer program that will break it down step by step on how to use or what can I do to learn this with out having to go to cat school not looking to do this on any other truck but mine
+David lemons I don't really know what you mean about changing to a heavy haul horsepower. The horsepower is just set by the flash file. I don't know of any detailed online Cat training program. Most guys just learn from factory training or from each other. I have a video on how to program an ECM, but it doesn't cover how to rerate. Be careful if you try to rerate as Cat tries to charge a $250 fee for the rerate or else it might lock your engine at idle.
Adept the heavy haul is not an increase in horse power it is settings that is put in ecm to help with the extra weight in heavy haul . If you order a new truck you are ask what you are going to do pull van freight or flat bed or RGN ( heavy haul ) and when they tune the engine at the factory they have different tunes for different applications. I know you can go to a Cat shop and do a rerate and if you ask they will put what they call a heavy haul package in the ecm. I guess what I'm asking is do you have or can you do a list of steps to do a rerate and how to generate and cat password I do have both programs I'm just not real familiar with how to use them yet
I gotcha, I thought you were asking how to change the setting on the horsepower for the engine to heavy haul or light freight. So the heavy haul designation is actually the flash file and typically it's a high horsepower designation. I'm not going to do a video on how to do a rerate yourself, as almost nobody has the tools to do it themselves and it is easy to mess up. My fear is that if you rerate it and then need the factory passwords for a rerate, your engine is going to get stuck in idle only.
+James Crowley That is a good question, I've never messed with them before so I'll have to look into it. I understand it to be similar to Nitrous for a car engine in that it is limited use.
Most of the average Used Motor homes are 300 to 330 hp and can only tow a 4500 lbs which is a compact car a mid size car pushes the weight not over but close the limit . So if your towing a mid size car toad you would bog engine down on a hill. This system offers a spirt of HP to make the hill . I heard it works great but you would know if it is hype and if the tranny and engine would handle it .
I think Its Great what you do AdeptApe! Thank you from Proud C15 Acert owner!
That was a really good way of telling the pros and cons of both sides of the story, at least for someone that has worked on them. Thank You.
9-11-2023 Praise our first responders. When I started driving professionally, I was informed to never allow the pyro to hit 1200. I could do very serious damage to the engine. So I held to that reasoning. even though this is 7 years ago It really hits home. These drivers today have no idea what this is about since the computer will not allow it to happen.
my company uses cat and cummins isx. the intermodal uses 579s and volvos with 600 hp isx and the flatbed and heavy haul uses cat c15s and c18s. we have a c500 with a quad turbo 3412 (1300+ hp) for 150 ton heavy hauls. the cummins dont break down much and get 8+ mpg and seem to be money makers. the cats (especially the c18s) have more power but burn more fuel. break downs are not common theyre both pretty solid. if i was an owner operator it would be a volvo with a cummins over a 379 with a c15 or c18.
I am confirmed.
I read the Pittsburgh Power past articles in a Truck magazine. "Cannot understand why rebuild and not also increase rhe horsepower?" and "The rebuild price is about the same for a. 350HP as it is a 550HP engine" and "Improve fuel mileage" "You only live once'".
I am benefiting from longevity with a low rated 370-435HP Cummins N14 Celect Plus (It is to increase the horsepower and torque in the last two gears only when going up a grade). I do actually feel it kuck in at times. It has 43.5k hours and over one million miles. Day cab undef 4.7k idle hours.
Intermodal also helps: I am not hauling steel or heavy liquids. Most loads I pull are are under 30k lbs net. I am empty 50% of the time.
I do care about gradeability: I just run my low horsepower N14 at 1450-1600 when loaded and chop my way the upper midwest hills. Eaton 13-Speed allows me to stay in the aforementioned range 95% of the time from 20MPH to 65MPH.
I drove and MBE 4000 for a while with a 10-speed. Good low end for the bottom eight gears dow to 1,000. Poor Volvo Detroit lije gradabimity losing 10MPH up 3% grades.
Cats may be the most poweful engine but in my experience they are also rhe most thirsty. I average 6.25-6.5 with my N14.
I did a rerate to my 3126. It was gutless, 175hp. Dealer said I could go to 190 with no changes. 210 if I changed the turbo, or 230 if I did the turbo and injectors. I’m sure injectors would’ve been pricey, so I installed a reman turbo. It seemed the only difference was the new turbo has a wastegate. Then I had them do the rerate. It’s still slow, but definitely noticed it has more power.
Garbage engines those 3126s are. How you gonna get 200hp out of 7.2l?
@@benjaminturpin2749 7.2 isn't the problem, it's the design of the engine , it's a natural turd
Cummins in Amarillo Tx did just that to my 97 freightliner with a N-14. I went from
435hp ( 1600 trany torque ) to
525hp ( 1850 Trany torque ) and daammmmm that’s a beast now. Cost ???? $$$ 350
If your Cat dealer has dyno I would also recommend a PAR dyno. Just because you engine flash file is for 500hp it doesn't guarantee your engine is producing 500hp. The engine is run on a dyno at the factory when it was build and the fuel rates were adjusted to with in normally 1 or 2 hp of what ever your rating happens to be. In some rare cases after an engine has been fully broken it or is several years old it can be up to 15 to 20hp low at the rated RPM and sometimes even more in the usable RPM range of 1100-1600RPM. If the dealer has a PAR certified dyno they can adjust the fuel rates back up to meet or slightly exceed factory specs for your engine rating. I have always recommended doing a PAR dyno before doing a top end and not after. The reason for this is if you valve lash is on the loose side you are loosing valve lift and reducing hp, when the injector rockers and rollers seat in and start to wear this normally retards timing reducing hp and throttle responce. Doing the PAR dyno before to top end set will compensate for this and bring your hp back up to spec. Then when you have your top end set it will advance the injection timing and the tighter valve lash will increase the valve lift for on average of about a 10hp gain. Not a huge number but in some cases every little bit helps. It might be helpful for some guys if you have a video to better explain what a PAR dyno is. In some cases it may not be available since most dealers don't invest in the required building separate from the shop, the very expensive dyno equipment and the trained technicians to operate it due to the low demand and profit. Hope this helps
The highest torque rating you can get is 2050 for the transmissions but trucks at sled pulls put out 3,000 plus foot lbs through these or lower rating transmissions with no problems. It's all about proper use of the transmission.
A re-rate here At Blanchard in Summerville SC according to them is 750 for the Cat password to get into the ECM then 2 hrs labor. About a grand. I'll run my c15 475 and like it for a bit longer.
can you make a video about single turbo conversion?
This was useful in trying to understand why an engine with 775,000 (Mack) might fail if the HP was increased from 415 to 485. FYI, over-runs on the engines were eight with each instance being more than a half hour! Must have been some enormous hills to descend. Again, I am neither a mechanic nor driver so I don't know. But I do know that the only change to the engine in the shop was software - no hardware at all.
I'm looking to doing 700 HP with a 6NZ when I get my first cat without screwing up the engine
Just bought another MBN C15, @ 435HP. Had CAT turn it up to 525HP, as it states on the passenger side of the motor. You have to find the right CAT tech for the job, because I've found out that most guys won't do it.
+sTEVAL570 I think many people are intimidated about it, unless you've done it before it can seem hard to find the information to do a rerate.
Adept Ape thanks for video . I have c15 6ng single turbo . My fuel mileage is around 4 mpg . I put new turbo and manifold by cat but fuel mileage is still 4 mpg . Need some help
Clean the soot🤔
Yeah this what I do to electric Cummins motors, I take em to the Diesel Doctor I'm Effingham, IL and have him turn the motors up via file thru the ECM port. He normally turns em up to max 600hp 2050 ft/lbs torque if it's a non dpf motor or max 550hp 1850 ft/lbs torque for a dpf motor! I just didn't know it was called a rerate!
Awesome.. I like your channel got 2 c-15s and you been very helpful.
Thank you as always for sharing your knowledge brother😎
I built a 3406E for a customer 5Ek was the stock engine family
He wanted a serious up grade and buying all cat parts we put 6nz parts on his engine loaded liners head , cam, injectors and turbo being 19k in parts we had a rerate for the Ecm print out was 550 hp @ 1400+- rpm 1300 +- torque at 1400rpm i think it was a genset file not sure but oh man that truck will pull 100k up hills in sc like nothing else in the area kinda like it doesnt care how much weight it pulls never more that a dark grey cloud of exhaust smoke and clearing right up. The man is super pleased with his engine after 10years. Question educated guess on power at 2300rpms the print out states hp and torque at a very low rpm setting it would be interesting to know what it has at high idle
Hey what do you recommend for a fuel additive to clean the injectors? If there's such a product out there?
Does rerating require a change in the governor?
Good Channel and Good video. Keep up the good work, drivers need a Mechanic doing videos from your perspective.
trucks and 966 loaders.great engines.
Wowzers, you get alot of comments! I don't know how you keep up with them all. I must say that I love your channel. Your devotion to educating others about CAT diesels is really cool! I enjoyed studying the C7 engine family re-rate chart you showed in this video. Do you have a chart of these families for the 3126B/3126E? It would be very interesting to look at (I like numbers!). I'm thinking about buying a bus and considering the T444E and 3126 as possible choices, but it will be a while before I can afford one. I know little about the CAT motors, but I've been learning quite a bit watching your channel.
As a side note...do you ever plan to do a video on how to set the injectors (synchronization) for a 3116? I have no need for this, but just find the topic really interesting. I imagine there aren't that many out there these days, but probably still a few. I know a guy who used to work at a CAT dealership and said they were an awful pain to do. He was the only one in the shop who could (or would) do them.
Thanks for any information you have. Keep up the great videos!
+Jonathan Bopp I used to reply to every comment before, but I don't have enough time for that now. I'm not sure when I'll do a 3116 rack sync video. We only get them about every 6 months, but I'm the lucky guy that gets to do them. They are very tedious to do. It isn't that they are crazy hard it is just a ton of little steps and the Cat instructions are hard to follow.
As far as the 3126 rerate chart, probably won't be putting that up online because it is much more difficult to follow. It is much more component dependent and is several pages long.
I can see where keeping up with so many comments would be time-consuming. I figured you didn't see too many 3116s these days, but I know they are still out there. I rode on a 1995 Bluebird GMC bus for years and it had the 3116. It never failed us, but was a real dog starting out...particularly on a hill. The turbo lag on them (or at least the later models) was something awful. The mechanic I knew said that they used to get that complaint at the dealer constantly. He said they would put the bus in gear and push down the pedal to see how many seconds it took the engine to reach a specific rpm. If the time was too long, there was an adjustment screw you could adjust to turn up the pre-boost fuel. I realize doing a video on that would be tedious and time-consuming. I know the timing of when you get one also might not be at a convenient time to do a vid. From the little I know, the process is vaguely similar to Detroit's "rack" system.
Ah, so it would seem that a re-rate on a 3126 would involve more than than flashing the ECM in most cases. I had just assumed that it was similar to the C7s. If you ever get motivated, I'd still find the chart interesting, even if nobody else did. I love specifications and numbers.
Thanks for all you do for all those who watch. I'm going to send you a donation this evening. :)
Just curious how hard is it turn up 3116 have one in 96 topkick says 170 hp but a tick more would be nice nothing crazy just dab @AdeptApe
My 550hp 6nz now runs around 700hp. Different turbo and program. I can not make my exhaust temp go over 1000 degrees without severely lugging the engine. Stock form it easily climbed higher. There is a good way and bad way to add power. Anyone I've known that has done a factory cat rerate has noticed little to no difference. Love your videos though. Thanks for what you do
+Mitch Less I'm sure there are ways to tune your engine better than factory, but it is easier to mess up than make it run better. Sounds like you know what your doing. Glad you like the channel.
I just bought a ecm from goecm for 1375 . Had it in 3 days from when I ordered it .
A ecm comes a dime a dozen. Just need to know the right people. I goto computer king in Dickinson tx. They warranty everything. And if you have a faulty one, they’ll hook it up to they’re truck. But I had a faulty one and came out at $850 with core.
Ok...am i the only saw that lady walked across the room @7:59m
Very interesting 🤔
Good information, thanks 👍🏽
THAT was the most enlightening information that I've had in a very long time!THANK YOU!!!Just a thought,I wonder does that apply to all BRANDS?Like I said,just a thought!
awesome video, I'm quite interested in hearing more about the tuning end of things with not only Cats but on diesels in general. keep up the good work my friend.
Thank you for the kind words. The tuning on these engines can get pretty intense, but I just wanted to show that there is also a Cat certified alternative to the aftermarket.
i still find it hilarious that you can plug in a computer and load a tune for a 550 or 600 horse C15 onto a motor that originally had 425-435 from the factory. perks of having a Cat versus a Cummins or Detroit lol.
+shortfuse1993 You can do the same with a Cummins or Detroit... js
@@AdeptApe u
Can you please tell me where can I find those re-rate charts at 4:45 in this video? I am looking for the family delineations for my 3406E 5EK. Thanks!
Nice moustache
Dude, you're the man
I have a 2005 lexion combine with C9 engine. It's at 360 hp. Can we safely add more hp? Not driving the snot out of it. Just need a boost once in a while
Can you rerate to the fire/Rv ratings now that the 3126 are beyond any factory warranties? I have a 190hp 3126 in a 2001 C5500 and would like at least to be at the 300/860 mark but more is better. I have seen the PDI tune/turbo/manifold aftermarket options but not sure if worth putting on a such a low HP engine. I assume it would be cheaper just to find a running used engine in the HP range I’m looking for. What do you think is the most cost effective way to change 190hp into 300hp?
КЕТ РУЛИТ!!! ХОРОШИЙ ДВИГАТЕЛЬ!!! БОЛЬШОЙ РЕСУРС!!!
Forgive me, I know you get a million questions! If you don't have time, maybe some of the other guys can help. I'm try to find information on the best operating rpm range for a 2001 C-15 6NZ single turbo pre-emission. I'm averaging 6.0 mpg and normally keep it around 1400 rpm's in whatever gear for the speed limit and try not to let it get over 1800 rpms under jake down hill. I'm looking at a chart for horsepower put out by "Road Choice" Truck parts online and it references a 500 hp testing at 2100 rpm's putting out 1850 ft lbs. 2100 is not a working range is it??!! Again we truly appreciate all that you do for us!!
Peak torque is at 1200 rpm. If I remember right 2120 rpm will be your top engine speed limit. You get your torque down low and your horsepower up high. A lot of people dont want to lug the engine but a C-15 can take it, and really its where the torque is. If its running right you shouldn't have no problem pulling right out of it. Generally keeping the rpm low most of the time is gonna make the engine last longer. I overhauled one for a guy one time who kept his rpm low and changed oil religiously. It had over a million miles on it and the rod and main bearings looked brand new. 6NZ is a legend so make sure you hang on to it and keep rebuilding it.
I am considering deleting the regen system on a C15 to add horse power and decreasing maintenance cost which have been very expensive. I saw your video on rerate if successful I would be adding horse power but would still be stuck with the regen maintenance cost. I have spoken with others that deleted the regen and increased horse power and received better milage. Your thoughts please
I learned a lot. Thanks
good morning adept,I want to thanks you for the videos that you have make us,I really learn alot of things from them,pls can you make video for me,a video of how to drup and engine from the a track☺☺
+raymond idirigbe I happily try to take requests, but I'm not exactly sure what video you are asking for?
Adept Ape I think he was trying to say "drop an engine from a truck"
What are your thoughts on diesel freaks power harness could you maybe do a video on the pros and cons?
Am really enjoying your video,thanks a lot
That answered ALL of my questions. Thank you.
Im considering buying a 310 catapiller 3406 1992 FREIGHTLINER FLA104, can this be done with this semi truck? Thank you
my friend has a 3406b 7fb with 40 psi+ lbs. of manifold pressure it will go higher but he said the turbo he has the guy who sold it to him said 40 psi was the max and the pry never goes over 900 he owned this truck for many years like this and get 7mpg on the highway and when im behind him I never see any smoke come out the stacks
+John Thomas These engines can handle power, this truck must be hot rodded because that is a lot of boost.
Where can I find the charts that you show in this video?
Hi I have C 13 industrial engine and it runs for 5 years without service
C13 AND 3306B HAVE SIMILAR PARTS ON VALVES SETS AND VALVE STAM.
I have a question;
Can I still add the exhaust, turbo, & Banks power-pack on top of this re-write if I have Cat rebuild my engine?
Hi can you explain the science behind re rating the ECM? I mean what components does the ECM command to work differently?
great video
Very nice info. Hey boss, where are you from?. I got 1.3 mill on my pete 379 with cat, c15mxs. Start leaking right next to head. May be you can help me. Can you? Thanks
THANKS
Very interesting. Is there a camshaft upgrade from a 2277508 that will allow for more horsepower? Thank you in advance
Great vid
Hey watsup man, I'm rebuilding a 05 mxs c15. I'm converting it to a single turbo. I'm curious what do you think about putting in the marine cam?? I hear it adds 100hp
+GoodVibeGetDown They can add more power, but a cam just gets more air in and out, you would need more fuel as well, which means you'll need some injector work or tuning.
I done my c15 MSX.
Changed marine c18 cam and c 18 injectors , Pdi Exhaust ceramic coated manifold and PDI SINGLE Turbo
can you tell me the difference between C13 verses C15 ? which is better ?
+mehmet g Well the C15 is the standard truck engine, it is heavier and 15 liters of displacement. The C15 makes more power and torque and is an overhead cam engine. The C13 is usually found in buses and some trucks. It is 13 liters of displacement and is a pushrod engine. Both use Mechanical Electronic Unit Injectors with a gear drive oil pump and water pump. The C13 is more sensitive to overheats causing damage and the C15 has more problems with its overhead and liner flanges.
Really good information, thanks
Thank you for the kind words.
Adept Ape any recommendations on Detroit Diesel 8.2T turbo??
3406 and the c15 do we look at the same family ?
Can you trun a 3126 up
very informative.Thank you.
I need to know if fuel additive is needed in a 3406b engine, because of low sulfur fuel, and what do you recommend? Thanks!
thank you for the info
I have Cat ET at my work. I mostly use it for diagnosing fault codes on C7 Cats in school buses. My dad just bought a 2000 Kenworth with a C-15 6NZ 475 HP engine in it. He is complaining about the lack of pulling power in it compared to his old 3406C. Am I able to rerate his engine for him with my basic Cat ET program? If so, do you think you could make a video of it? Or at least explain where to find it in ET? I don’t work on Cat much, usually Cummins. On a Cummins I would just download a file from QuickServe.
That's a pretty high chance
Thanks for the great videos. What would it take to increase a 3126 from 230 to 300+?
+george jetzon A 230 hp engine usually has different pistons, injectors, turbo than a 300 engine.
thanks alot
I have a c-15 serial SDP how can I find the chart that you used in this video to see how high I can go with my HP
This is in a 2008 Pete and it had been deleted by 2nd previous owner. Shows 475hp on the computer but KW tech said it could be different HP because it has been deleted is this correct and how can I find out what the HP is?
thank you for your time.
what is the main difference between the software within the same family? do cat raise the oil pressure to get more power and perhaps some duration? surely you've looked at some data and noticed something ! thanks and great videos!
+Turners Garage Its really all fuel. Since the oil pressure is controlled by the oil pump and bearing clearances there isn't much software can do to affect it. It can affect the fuel rate though. If you do a rerate you'll notice that the rated fuel limit will change, which means the engine can inject more fuel which means more power.
ahh i see, i miss understood how the system worked i assumed it would be similar to an isuzu 4jx1 engine i run that apparently has an injection system designed by cat, which is heui but has a rail pressure control valve on the pump which can control rail pressure. i am very keen on getting to know this type of injection system better as i remap a lot of new holland foragers and recently i have been asked to look into a c18 powered one which obviously i will approach with great caution!
I have an old 3406b, I’ve watched most of your videos but haven’t seen what you have described as my issue. The turbo wasn’t getting the boost it’s supposed to, so I changed the turbo, before watching your video. It helped a little but still not what it was. The motor rpms seem to rise fast without building boost. Changing fuel filter and air filter and still nothing. No fuel leaks either. What should the fuel pressure be on these? Above 80 psi??
Look for leaks in your turbo/intercooler system, hose, condenser and anything else that's attached
Sorry buddy just saw that you asked that question 2 yrs ago
im looking for a pre emission truck and found a pete 379 with a 3406 5ek engine with 550 hp with new platinum overhaul from cat
would that increase in hp damage engine from overheating. its probably a different pistons pack but all that extra heat
what u think ?
Go into et configure with retarter
Free hp nothing else needed.
Already wrote into software
Give you about 15% more power
Looks like your blowing alot of white smoke
Do any of the engines you work on have an EGR or a DPF filter? can you do some videos covering how they work and how to best maintain them?
Hey Regal, I do work on them, Cat used a DPF with its ARD heads on the 2007-2010 engines. They also used EGR, but they called it CGI, but it is pretty much EGR, I should do one on DPFs, as all new trucks have them.
ya i just purchased a new truck with both EGR/CGI and DPF and they are both completely foreign pieces of equipment to me. Any videos would be great. thanks and keep up the good work.
The words in your post regarding CAT were all past tense. Did CAT stop using these emission parts on their new engines?
+Regal2800 So Cat stopped production of truck engines a few years ago unfortunately. I believe 2010 was the last year of production. I will try to make a DPF video in the future, I think many people would enjoy that, plus you always leave comments and I try to take feedback into account for future videos. I've been getting a lot of C15 overhead requests so I'm going to try and do one of those soon too, but am waiting to work on an overhead.
Hi I have a few questions , First I have a 2001 Pete 379 with a C-15 6NZ . I am a John Deere Agricultural field tech with 20 years of Deere experience I work with a laptop daily we use a Data link the same as Cat to upload payloads and files . The questions I have are , I am looking at purchasing a laptop and data link with Cat ET installed I want to be able to hook up to my truck and tune the HP , also pull codes when needed and perform diagnostics . I have heard a lot of talk about flashing the ecm and also talk of Mapping the ecm what is the difference , also were can I get these flash files and how will I know which one is the correct one . Are they On cat SIS ? any info would be great Thanks.
+farmerjoe338 The flash file is what sets the horsepower, there really isn't any mapping you can do. You can mess with the FLS and FTS setting, but that requires a factory password. The flash file is also going to require a factory password. The flash file is downloaded from Cat.
Makes total sense Deere does the same thing where you have to be a dealer tech with a password to do things such as this . I am trying to figure out how this guy on TH-cam Steven Bradford ( aka catlepuller ) is getting the horsepower and getting these kitty cats to do what they are doing . I asked him and he said he maps the ECM could you please watch some of his vids and give me your opinion it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you my friend .
I have a c13 in a 07 freighter with the smart shift trans I was told we need to have the transmission put in performance mode but none of our cat shops around here have never heard of that would you have any suggestions
Andrew Maas did you ever figure this out???
I work for Finning/CAT in Canada. I've been toying with the idea of throwing a 3126 or C7 in a pickup as I've already put a 6BT cummins in an F350 and want to try something different. From what I've seen, these engines highest ratings are for emergency vehicles and is around 330/350hp, but the marine engines are rated at somewhere around 450hp. Do you think it's possible to get the software for the marine engines to work on an industrial? I know cooling capabilities is probably the biggest issue but I'm just curious. My end goal would be making somewhere north of 500hp with compound turbos and whatever mechanical fuel modifications I could do.
+Max Mcrae I think the best way to go about it would be getting a marine engine to start with because the injectors, turbo, software, cam, and pistons are probably all different. Then you just need your throttle, cruise....Etc inputs.
thnx buddy you the man
I love that am look forword to see it
Kinda off topic, what would it cost to do a rebuild on a 3406b? I’m seeing them go on eBay for rebuild goin for $4000. The truck I’m looking to buy has a 444 extra trouble cummins, I’m sold on the cats but wonder what it would cost to rebuild one. I’m planning on doing it my self
Bad Company get a series 60 detroit and send that 3406 to the scrap yard where it belongs
The cost to rebuild a B-Model honestly depends on how far you want to go into it. CAT doesn't offer a rebuild kit for these engines, but I work at a CAT dealer so I can give you some recommendations. That is outside of the obvious cylinder head, pistons, liners, bearings, gaskets, etc.. Having the pump rebuilt and bench tested is kind of expensive, but it makes all the difference in how the engine runs. You definitely want to get the timing advance rebuilt because 9 times out of 10 the fly weights are beat all to hell. Upgrading to the steel top pistons is a good idea because the original aluminum ones were known to crack across the top..or melt when people start turning screws and jacking with the timing. Upgrading to the dual piston cooling jets and the higher flow oil pump is also a good idea if your doing a rebuild. There are updated bypass valves and springs you can get too that go inside the oil filter base. I've seen several that have had broken thrust plates for the bull gear so watch out for that. Actually just replace the thrust plate it don't cost much, and the last the you want is for the bull gear to start trying to chew its way out the front cover. Its not pretty. I recommend installing a 6NZ flywheel too because its much easier to get the right clutch for it. The 6NZ flywheel has a bigger center than the B-model one does. Big center clutch won't bolt up to a small center flywheel, ask me how I know lol. Check all of the high pressure fuel lines and the jumper lines around the ends cause I've seen those crack, and make sure you get any of the hold downs for the fuel lines that may be missing because again, the lines will crack. If a jumper line cracks you'll start getting fuel in the oil. Its a good idea to reseal the big square cover on the left side of the block while you have the fuel pump out of the way. The "B" on the washers under the Jake Brake housings need to be facing up. Its not CAT part, but get a return spring for the throttle lever..don't be that guy. If you replace the nozzles its a good idea to go to a CAT dealer and get them to get you the right ones for your engine. That is extremely important because of different spray angles and sealing washer thicknesses. You don't want to be washing out the cylinders among other things. One thing people forget about a lot too is the ratio control diaphragm. Just replace it cause you're gonna need that little guy. Two things that might be hard for you to check is the block and the crank. The hardness of the crank really should be checked unless the journals just look amazing. Normally its not something you'd think about, but I have seen two B-models with what they call a "soft crank" and they wouldn't polish out. The deck flatness should be checked and it might even need to be counterbored. ALL 3406E/C-15/C15 engines NEED to be counterbored when rebuilt. I cant remember if B-models are included in that or not but I do know that there are two different spacer plate thickness available to help get projection in spec. Liner projection is extremely important with any 3406/C-15/C15 CAT engine. If its not right you're either gonna keep blowing head gaskets or cracking liner flanges, which is why the deck flatness and liner projection need to be in spec. CAT has been really hot on this topic the last couple years because of the repeated head gasket failures caused by people not building these engine the right way. If there is any pitting in the lower liner bores you can patch it with steel putty and sand it down to keep from cutting an o-ring, but if its down into where the top liner o-ring seals then you're gonna need to have lower liner inserts installed otherwise you'll eventually start getting coolant in the oil. Not filling the radiator with 70% tap water and making sure the radiator is grounded will prevent this from happening. A lot of this is the unexpected stuff you run into that makes it hard to tell someone how much its gonna cost out the door. You can't possibly know for sure till you get the engine tore down. Idk how experienced you are with engines, but honestly if you're not familiar with them I'd recommend going to a CAT dealer and having them make you a quote for a rebuild if you decide to get a B-model. There's a lot of little things on those engines that can make it run like raped ape if its right or fall on its face going over a speed bump if its not. Its not like rebuilding an electronic engine. Plus by having a dealer do it you can get OPT warranty which is absolutely worth it. Then you don't have anything to worry about if it grenades itself lol.
Sorry for the long comment but even if you didn't get the B-Model hopefully I mentioned a few things you or anyone reading this didn't know and found helpful. I cant legally tell you how to hop up a CAT though so don't ask lol. I will say I've seen these aftermarket flash files and modded ECMs before and it usually only ends up costing the customer more trouble than its worth. If you have a MXS/NXS a dealer can build it back to a 625 hp engine with 2050 ft.lbs of torque at the flywheel with all CAT parts and a CAT flash file, and even warranty. Keep in mind your clutch and trans though, and you usually need a taller radiator and/or cooler thermostats cause she's gonna be sweatin.
P.S: I do love a good B-model but I'd probably recommend a 6NZ, 1LW, 2WS, or a MBN. 5EK and 6TS are good options too. 7CZ is actually a 600hp C-16 if you can find one. Stay away from a SDP or LEE unless Maxxforce is the only alternative.. and never under any circumstances let yourself fall into the ownership of a CAT truck. The only thing CAT on that pile of junk is the transmission..if its an automatic.
Nick Forgey the early b engines still had steel fire rings under the liners. The later engines did not the ones without will almost always need to be cut for liner shims to get the protrution right. If you are doing an out there of frame rebuild I would recommend having the entire block checked. Check the crank bores for alinment have the deck milled and fire rings installed. I rebuilt my 1988 3406b in 2003 parts cost me $5500 Iused IPD parts not cat and she ran great. My previous truck had a 3406a 325hp factory rating after I did my rebuild and tune to that engine she dynoed just shy of 385hp to the road and I drove her for 9 years after that rebuild
Where are you located ?
Darryl Mitchell you askin me
I've wondered about the C7s in the more recent BAE military 2.5 tons from the teens, would they be in the emergency family? Really I'd wondered because it was the military ordering them with the wide range of fuel requirement, were they saddled with the same emissions kits as the civilian trucks from the same years?
The smaller BAE LMTVs
"Your engine family that is" LOL
QQ:Hello Josh what do you think about change in a camshaft to a marine c18 camshaft would that give more horsepower to a c15 or 3406e? Thanks
It would hurt more than it would help without changing injectors, pistons, turbo, and flash file too. A C15 (MXS/NXS) can be built back to 625 hp and 2050 ft.lbs of torque though. Ive done three or four that way so far.
Zeigler CAT of Rochester, Minnesota says that they don't/won't do a re-rate. States that CAT "won't allow us to." Is this common? They sent me next door to Rochester Diesel. They say 100HP for @ $2000 parts/labor. That seems odd. It's a 2000 3126 f650 that started out as a 26' box truck , shortened & now has an f350 box. It's just a big toy I use to tow my 42' travel trailer a couple times a year. Not sure now exactly what to do. I'm just looking for an improvement in fuel economy. Any suggestions?
I have a problem with a truck I am working on and $3600 and counting haven't been able to get it running . Is there a contact or place I can get in touch with you regarding this truck . 2006 F650 C7 Acert engine - replaced cam, cam followers , rod bearings , crank bearings, oil pump , 3 ecm's , engine wiring harness
What does this usually cost?
Is it possible to rerate a 190hp (520 ft lbs) 3126B to the high torque 210 hp rating (605 ft lbs torque) without changing components such as injectors, turbo, pistons, etc.? Or is it not possible for you to answer without a specific engine serial number? I see many 190 hp buses, but I rarely see anything higher on the conventional school buses. If I end up buying one, it would be helpful to know if those 190 hp models can be up-rated without major expense.
Thanks,
Jonathan
+Jonathan Bopp I would need a specific serial number to tell you exactly, but I looked up a very similar thing the other day and if I remember right you can rerate between the 190-210 HP or the 520-605 TQ without any components changed. There is also a 210 520 torque rating. These are considered the "low power" ranges. The next step is 230 HP and 660 TQ, which is mid range and they require a bunch of stuff including pistons if I remember correctly.
That all sounds like I would have expected and seems to be very similar to the C7 rerate chart you had posted. To me, the 210 520 would be very little difference from the 190 (as peak torque on both is 520), just a bit more top end. The 210 605 would really give some strong lugging torque in the lower rpms. Just wasn't sure if the high torque setting required different components. If I come across one I'm serious about, I'll send the serial number so that it can be checked.
Thanks man!
I did some looking and actually found the correct OEM engine serial number on a separate tag (oops!). It also matched the serial number that showed up in the engine computer. The number is CKM52816. Hopefully this is a valid serial number. I ordered some t-stats with that number and they said it was good. Will this engine take the 210 hp 605 ft lb reflash without component changes? I can check with Allison on the transmission later on if I decide I'm going to do it.
@@jonathanbopp6964 Very curious about what you found on this. I have the same engine.
Does this void warranty on a rebuild engine straight from CAT?
Absolutely, unless cat does it
next valves on cat15 I am waiting
So I'm not very seasoned in this stuff. My question is how this really effects the output of the engine. We've had a couple peterbilts that are twin turbo acert motors. Not sure of the mxs, bxs etc, but one was a factory 475 and the other was 550 from the factory. The 475 was rerated to a 550 but I can say it does not pull like the 550 from the factory. there's a definite difference. Gearing and transmissions are the same. Can you explain why this is? What's the difference mechanically and electronically from the 475 and the 550? It seems whatever they came as from the factory is what they operate best at.
+Justin Hood The twin turbo Cats use the exact same components from 475 to 550. There are differences if you go above that for a heavy haul or RV engine, but you are dealing with the same injectors, valve lash, camshaft, everything. My guess would be the rerated engine has a problem like a boost leak or low fuel pressure.
thanks appreciate the answer
Torque Rating on the Motor could also be different as well. If there is Nothing Wrong with that Motor, then it is the Torque Rating on the Motor. My guess is that The 550 HP Motor is a 1850 Torque and The 475 HP Motor is a 1550/1650 Torque Motor.
hi fellow oil burner, I must ask. what do you think of those who increase the diesel but not the boost, doesn't this raise egt to piston melting temps?
I personally am not a fan of pushing more fuel into these engines than they were designed for. Raising those egts can cause premature turbocharger failure, cracked manifolds, and damaged mufflers as well as possible damage to internal engine parts. Some guys like to play with their engines though and many have success with adding power and some of the engines still seem to last quite a long time. If I ran a truck I would want to increase my fuel economy more than making extra HP, but everyone is different.
+Adept Ape k, o gt it thnx, do u think wastegates, internal or external can help raise boost pressure on non electronic engines?
+Leroy “RotoRo” Rowe Well most turbos already have a waste gate, and waste gates only limit boost. So if you adjusted or put a different wastegate on a turbo with one already, you could increase your boost by not limiting the boost as much, but not increase the boost.
+Adept Ape ah, noted. thanks for the info
what would injectors run for 6nz c15 3406 engine ? can i get mine rebuilt or dosent it matter as far as seating them back in?
What do u think we'll happen if I but a cat 3406e turbo on a cat3406 b
so a 6nz is a single turbo c15 and the c15 acert is the twin turbo? and also what came before the 3406?
There are other single turbo C15 engines, but yep once they went to ACERT they had Twin Turbos and the serial numbers with those are the BXS, MXS, NXS, and the regen SDP. Well before the 3406E was the older mechanical 3406B and 3406A models, there was also a 3408, which was a V8 version of the engine, but they are pretty old.
Hey AA, I have an old Pete with a sweet-running 4mg 3406b with only 150k orig miles. I've seen some "turn up the fuel" posts on the web, but do you have any videos/advice on doing that to the old mechanicals? Also wondering if the "family" thing applies to the older engines like mine. Thanks! Best videos on youtube!
+dobb673 So the yes your engine is the 3406 and C15 family, just the older version. We don't do any hot rodding in our shop so I can't really say what is the best way to turn up your old B model. They are somewhat easy to do though as you don't have emissions to worry about you can play with the injectors, fuel pump, and turbo, but man that is an expensive hobby.
What can I do to get more hill pulling power out of my 3208T? It's in a motorhome, pulling hills can be a pain, struggling at 35 mph on some hills.. bigger turbo? Fuel adjustment?
I have a couple of questions on rerate 1. when you rerate is there a program that changes to horse power and I don't know what you call it but is like changing from pulling a dry van to a heavy haul? 2. I have the computer and the cat et and also the flash files and password generator programs just not really sure how to use is there a computer program that will break it down step by step on how to use or what can I do to learn this with out having to go to cat school not looking to do this on any other truck but mine
+David lemons I don't really know what you mean about changing to a heavy haul horsepower. The horsepower is just set by the flash file. I don't know of any detailed online Cat training program. Most guys just learn from factory training or from each other. I have a video on how to program an ECM, but it doesn't cover how to rerate. Be careful if you try to rerate as Cat tries to charge a $250 fee for the rerate or else it might lock your engine at idle.
Adept the heavy haul is not an increase in horse power it is settings that is put in ecm to help with the extra weight in heavy haul . If you order a new truck you are ask what you are going to do pull van freight or flat bed or RGN ( heavy haul ) and when they tune the engine at the factory they have different tunes for different applications. I know you can go to a Cat shop and do a rerate and if you ask they will put what they call a heavy haul package in the ecm. I guess what I'm asking is do you have or can you do a list of steps to do a rerate and how to generate and cat password I do have both programs I'm just not real familiar with how to use them yet
I gotcha, I thought you were asking how to change the setting on the horsepower for the engine to heavy haul or light freight. So the heavy haul designation is actually the flash file and typically it's a high horsepower designation. I'm not going to do a video on how to do a rerate yourself, as almost nobody has the tools to do it themselves and it is easy to mess up. My fear is that if you rerate it and then need the factory passwords for a rerate, your engine is going to get stuck in idle only.
What about propane injection systems? Do they add any improvment to overall performance of engine overall?
+James Crowley That is a good question, I've never messed with them before so I'll have to look into it. I understand it to be similar to Nitrous for a car engine in that it is limited use.
Most of the average Used Motor homes are 300 to 330 hp and can only tow a 4500 lbs which is a compact car a mid size car pushes the weight not over but close the limit . So if your towing a mid size car toad you would bog engine down on a hill. This system offers a spirt of HP to make the hill . I heard it works great but you would know if it is hype and if the tranny and engine would handle it .
Where is your shop located?
How about a motorhome Cummins 8.3L engine, is it the same process?
Are you familiar pre emissions Cummins ISX?