The Final Battle - Book of Mormon Evidence
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- "The honest in heart, who feel that the true Kingdom of God ought to have special and powerful credentials, and not just be another voice in the crowd, will not go away disappointed from an examination of the claims and evidences of the Book of Mormon." -Hugh W. Nibley
Thoughtful insights from 32 top scholars continue the journey into the Book of Mormon's thousand-year span, aiding understanding of this sacred text. Mormon's description of the land, religious history, culture, and traditions create a fascinating mosaic. Stunningly beautiful images filmed on location in Guatemala and Mexico combined with the art of Joseph Brickey illuminate the rich culture of the Book of Mormon.
We invite all people everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if the book is true. Those who pursue this course and ask in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost.
To learn more, please visit:
www.mormon.org
I've traveled Central America, and had the privilege of meeting with experts in archaeology, anthropology, and officials from CA countries' Ministries of Antiquities. they weren't package tours) Being able to authenticate any evidences from BoM would be an economic boom for 3rd world and developing nations. Funding for research endowments, archaeological excavations, pilgrimages and tourist trade would generate large flows of American dollars into their economies. That hasn't happened, though.
We recognize that our forefathers were human. They doubtless
made mistakes. Some of them acknowledged making mistakes. But the
mistakes were minor when compared with the marvelous work which they
accomplished."
“I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved.”
Joseph Smith Jr., The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ
Brigham Young did not want the Paiutes to kill the pioneers. He had nothing to do with it.
I'm not. It bothers me that these you tube videos are trying to keep people from the truth. Yet the LDS Church keeps growing in spite of their misrepresentations.
He died and was resurrected. He is still alive today. His body is no longer in the tomb. But then you already knew that. You must be an atheist. It has already been determined that DNA is too complex to have been created by evolutionary means.
1- The early churches were not called the church of Jesus Christ.
2- The gates of hell did not prevail against the Holy Spirit and the faithful in Christ.
3- The Word of God was not corrupted.
Your threats are hollow. The lds priesthood is void of power and authority..There is one prophet and high priest, "Jesus Christ". He alone is salvation and eternal life. He alone holds the keys to hell.
Thanks. Where did Joseph Smith find the plates? I thought he lived in New York. Please tell me where in the BoM it says the final battle was in Central America. Where were the plates hidden? NY or CA? How could the plates be hidden in two hills? Is there more than one record? If the LDS church doesn't say it's in NY why do they own the land and commemorate the finding of the record there? This is really confusing. Thanks again.
@Ewolf98 - The Olmec period was over by around 400 BC. I'm not sure what your point is, though.
There are definite links between both the Ancient Western and Eastern world in the Americas. What some scholars have done is willfully ignore the European and Middle Eastern inlfuences even though there is a huge amount of evidence of their civilisations found on the continent. What some have done is depend wholy on genetics hoping to nulify any physical evidence telling a different story to what they believe or wish history to be.
By the power of God I translated the Book of Mormon from hieroglyphics, the knowledge of which was lost to the world, in which wonderful event I stood alone, an unlearned youth, to combat the worldly wisdom and multiplied ignorance of eighteen centuries, with a new revelation. Joseph Smith
History of the Church, 6:74.
@brandenburg2388 Honestly, these clips are not meant to validate the Book of Mormon. Only through the Holy Ghost can one attain a confirmation of its truth. However, these programs are more likely meant to give historical insight to believers.
“It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3
Doctrines of Salvation are excerpts of Joseph Fielding Smith talks given while he was an apostle. Apostles words while we'll respected, are not taken as "doctrine." Before accusing me of not following the prophet because I said that, most heartlanders are absolute in regards to only the Urim and Thummim being used to translate the plates and not the seer stone despite the fact that the current prophet has even stated the seer stone was used.
Thank you for your reply. I have read the BOM and prayed for the Holy Spirit to show me the truth. He did. I have also read the Peril of Great Price and D&C. I assure you that I have read prayerfully and used the critical thinking skills I have acquired over the years and which lead me to 2 PhDs in the science field. I have the assurance of my salvation through Jesus Christ; not Joe Smith. The Bible is a true set of sources (66 books) and they are all I need to know the path to Heaven.
Look up Doctrine and Covenants 125 it tells you specifically where it is, I'm sure that amazing things happened in mesoamerica but not the Book of Mormon. Joseph said this land he was never anywhere close to Mexico the likelihood that the Laminites in the southern land interacted with mesoamerica is pretty good. Sorry but I trust The prophets not the scholars.
The Book of Mormon is a true record, however this presentation has got the wrong area of real estate. You need to look to the Great Lakes of North America
@Christopher Storrs In the February 2018 edition of "National Geographic" magazine is an article: "Laser Scans Reveal Maya Megalopolis Below Guatemalan Jungle" The author is Tom Clynes. The article is about a 2016 LiDAR scanning of about 800 square miles around Tikal in northern Guatemala. This is just a fraction of the former Maya territory which spanned thousands of square miles, yet the LiDAR revealed over 60,000 houses, palaces, elevated highways, and other human-made features that have been hidden for centuries.
The project was spear headed by the PACUNAM Foundation with a consortium of researchers which includes: Thomas Garrison, Albert Lin, Francisco Estrada-Belli, and Marcello Canuto.
The results suggest that the scanned area supported an advanced civilization that may have reached a population of 10 to 15 million people.
In the March 2019 edition of "Discover" magazine on page 26, is an article "A Lost World Emerges." The author is Nathaniel Scharping. The article describes some of the finds from the LiDAR scan of northern Guatemala. The group of researchers has uncovered unknown city-states near Tikal with limestone roads running from city to city. Unexpectedly, the group found Maya structures built expressly for defensive warfare. These include ditches, moats, ramparts, high walls, fortresses, and a series of watchtowers. Many of these surround or are near major cities. In one place the group found a mound of sling stones which could have been potential ammo from over 1,000 years ago.
The findings closely match the fortifications Captain Moroni caused to be built, as described in the Book of Mormon in Alma 49-50.
Yeah there you go. One mormon says South America the other says the Great Lakes. Thousands of miles separate them. And in neither place do you find evidence of a mass battle between half a million Hebrews. This is painful to watch.
The final battle was fought at the Hill Cumorah in Palmyra, N.Y. There is plenty of archaeological evidence in the area from flint spear points to stone defences. Look up the Hopewell culture of North America
@@chrisstorrs4306
Aren't the people in the video saying the final battle was in South America?
Flint spears are found all over North America where Indians were. That's not a Hebrew thing that's an Indian thing.
They're supposed to be Jewish Hebrews. There's nothing Hebrew about American Indians. There's nothing Hebrew about Flint arrows and defenses.
@@GaryKColeman the tomb of Lehi and nephi was discovered in central america in this video it proves the book of Mormon must be true th-cam.com/video/2aI6el8ZN30/w-d-xo.html also I was wondering if you have seen this recent discovery of gold plates in central america, does this mean the Book of Mormon is true with this new discovery? this is the video th-cam.com/video/DnS0DILuLhs/w-d-xo.html
The final battle was in upstate New York. There needs to be some explanation of the people moving from Mexico to New York. Either that or they were in New York all along. Some scholars argue that the narrow neck of land was really the Niagara falls area between New York and Canada. The seas were actually the Great Lakes. Either way, there is evidence which can be interpreted to support those locations.
Rex Cluff there are two different hill cumorhas one was I southern Mexico the other is the hill Moroni named where he burried the plates
The hinterland theory talks about the nephites that went north but I think you make a good point
The Narrow Neck of Land is SOUTH of Cumorah
Rex why so sure of this? I believe you are wrong as there is not one ‘known’ location of BOM lands in the America - official church position - which includes the small hill in NY where JS recovered the plates.
I know the Book of Mormon is true! I know that not because of any archeological evidence...I know it because I can feel the Holy Spirit every time I read it. It brings me closer to my Savior Jesus Christ and teaches me more about him and his gospel. No matter what the science or skepticals might say, I have obtained a testimony from God and I will stick to it until the day when its truthfulness will be declared by Jesus Christ himself (though He has already done it through the prophet Joseph Smith.)
Vardog F. ..imbecile.
Jean P. G. ...absolutely true. He had about 34 wives and liked to screw 14 year old girls also. Now its mainly a multi $Billion financial scam. Stupid believers are told to donate 10% of their pre-tax income to the Church. But Smith was not all bad. He had a droll sense of humor. Imagine getting thousands of people to wear crazy underwear! And 100 years before Monte Python.
I feel in my deepest heart than the Book of Mormon is a gigantic fraude.
Vardog F. I get that same feeling when I eat a good pizza and watch a R rated movie
Feelings! Because you felt It! That is why they drank that cool aid. It supposed to be a lesson for as that we should use our critical thinking and doubt the things they say to us.
It is so sad to see grown respectable looking gentleman engaging in fantasy.
...That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates... And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us;...we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates...an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates...And it is marvelous in our eyes. OLIVER COWDERY, DAVID WHITMER, MARTIN HARRIS
The Book of Mormon could not have happened in central America. The evidence is not there. It happened in the Heartland of America.
There is a ton of evidence in both the Heartland, and mesoamerica. It happened in both places. Heartland theory people are so narrow minded. This video even showed evidence for it in mesoamerica.
@Norman Black In the February 2018 edition of "National Geographic" magazine is an article: "Laser Scans Reveal Maya Megalopolis Below Guatemalan Jungle" The author is Tom Clynes. The article is about a 2016 LiDAR scanning of about 800 square miles around Tikal in northern Guatemala. This is just a fraction of the former Maya territory which spanned thousands of square miles, yet the LiDAR revealed over 60,000 houses, palaces, elevated highways, and other human-made features that have been hidden for centuries.
The project was spearheaded by the PACUNAM Foundation with a consortium of researchers, which includes Thomas Garrison, Albert Lin, Francisco Estrada-Belli, and Marcello Canuto.
The results suggest that the scanned area supported an advanced civilization that may have reached a population of 10 to 15 million people.
In the March 2019 edition of "Discover" magazine on page 26, is an article "A Lost World Emerges." The author is Nathaniel Scharping. The article describes some of the finds from the LiDAR scan of northern Guatemala. The group of researchers has uncovered city-states near Tikal with limestone roads running from city to city. Unexpectedly, the group found Maya structures built expressly for defensive warfare. These include ditches, moats, ramparts, high walls, fortresses, and a series of watchtowers. Many of these surround or are near major cities. In one place the group found a mound of sling stones which could have been potential ammo from over 1,000 years ago.
The findings closely match the fortifications Captain Moroni caused to be built, as described in the Book of Mormon in Alma 49-50.
From the evidence I have seen I know the Book of Mormons is true.! I find it od that there is so much in the history of the Americas that matches what is written in the Book, it a small part of the history preserved but all evidence will be disputed and in the end the Spiritual evidence is what matters most.
WTF is a joke?
The BofA and the BofMormon are miraculous. It would be pretty much impossible for Joseph to have known all the accurate names, cultures, language structure, symbolism, places, geographic ups & downs & turns, & political powers, etc etc of the ancient MEast & Americas that are seamlessly incorporated into these books. The people writing them MUST have originated in the Middle East. And not 19thC America. The writers appropriately associated Lamanite Baalisms; elephants; the Tree=Mary, King, crocodile, goddess; etc etc. and hundreds of things as peoples from the ancient MEast would have. Abraham is consistently Osiris, the seer (Shulem, the Butler) is "represented" as Hor, Pharaoh is Isis the throne and "deification of the pharaoh himself", Jah-oh-eh is earth, Amon-Re key to open way, was-scepter is authority, wdjet is light & glory, Horus-Soped etc as firmament & ship as ship of 1000, "Olishem" now found in Naram Sin, Abraham anciently associated with sacrifice on lion couch, Kolob is heart of universe, creative center (of4) apes associated with stars etc etc etc. How did Joseph know all this plus much much more???
Joe peaceman "How did Joseph know all this plus much much more???" Geez, right from the official LDS talking points list. My mother-in-law likes to repeat this question often. She's like most Mormons who will ask the question but aren't really interested in listening to the answer.
So in case your ears don't work, but you are capable of reading here is the answer to the question "How did Joseph know all this plus much much more?" and "to have known all the accurate names, cultures, language structure, symbolism, places, geographic ups & downs & turns, & political powers, etc etc of the ancient MEast & Americas that are seamlessly incorporated into these books." (oh the suspense!) Answer: Joseph Smith knows all these things precisely the same way J.R.R.Tolkien knows all the names, cultures, language structure, symbolism, places, geographic ups & downs & turns, & political powers, etc etc of ancient Mordor that are seamlessly incorporated into his books. Joseph Smith knows the characters in the BoM precisely the same way J.R.R. Tolkien knows Gandalf, Gollum and Bilbo Baggins.
The only difference is that the still active Joseph Smith Book Club meets every Sunday and expects at least 10% of your earnings to come talk about it.
crwfrdjr Hi, I'm busy with a different hater right now, but....just wanted to smile :), and say it's interesting how the anti-mormon mind so often can't tell the difference between real life and fiction... :). No offense.
Joe peaceman Come on, Joe. Crwfrdjr made a really good point there. Good to see your still at it. ;)
crwfrdjr That's just classic - Really well said. Fair warning - i'm borrowing that one.
:), funny, again, if I had a dollar for every time I heard the Middle Earth thing....;) Nice to hear from you too, did you ever confess that you were lying to your family?? and that you really have no evidence to support your claims? ;)
As an Archaeologist and Historian, the book of Mormon has not one shred of evidence to support any of their claims. As a Native American, I know the history and truth of my people and our land. Your stories of my people and our land come from magic stones, golden tablets inside hats.
You know there are no "facts" proving or disproving the truthfulness of the BOM. So your opinion is your opinion. I'm happy though that you've done research to come to said conclusion.
Until I don't see Monson either explaining how this works or agreeing with these guys, all of this is just lame mental gymnastics by a fringe group
he wont tell you cause he whants you to acctaly seek the truth for yourself, to ask in faith. but i dout you will do that so you will never truly know wont you?
And the dish ran away with the spoon. Oh how I love fictional stories. This is a tragic misleading of a true cultures history.
Lmfao!
You've got to be kidding me, you really think some guy from 1800's who had little education could come up with this? Read the Book Of Mormon yourself instead of mocking it because you don't even know about it.
tmoney43 Why do Mormons always play the educational card. ? That is getting old
Smith never wrote that BoM . He would dictate the story and his scribe s would write it down and than recite it back to Joesph to make sure they heard him correctly. Smith was a very smart con man
His weakness in English was spelling
4 minute comedy session has made a flood of conversation here so happy I'm tired now
Central America and South America don't have Migrating animals and Aztec and Mayan and Inca building resemble Cambodia . And, when Brother Joseph sent Missionaries to the Lamanites, he sent them west to Pennsylvania, Ohio or rather the Eastern part of the USA. And there is only one Hill Cumorah and it's in New York State. Maybe do some research before you make a fool out of yourselves. I am ---mww
@LDS4Life71 Prove it to me? I'd be an instant convert.
if the book of mormon really is true, like mormons claim it is, why would I need to ask God if it's true?
The ending of the book challenges you to ask God if it is true, but surely if the book is the real deal, just reading the book would be enough to know it is true. By the time I've read that famous passage in Moroni, I already know it's true and I wouldn't feel the need to ask.
btw, I've come to the conclusion that the book of mormon is a 19th century work of fiction.
The thing that undo and proves that the Mormon reiligion is false is the total contridiction of advice of the Bible ''The heart is the most deceptive thing...'' And yet Mormons ask the potental convert to trust what his heart says to prove some thing is that is false to be true...Could not satan be that source of burning or warmth to decieve the convert ???...
.I used to be a mormon for 20 years untill I done my research from the churches own history books and was shocked !!!...
How can this joseph smith and brigham young be men of God ???....Their lives and morals did not refelect that...The real evil is that the leaders today know all this and continue the charade and lies for the sake of money and power. therefore stealing millons of peoples salvation...satan works in devious ways :
Just want to ask, is there anything will taken out from you if you do not do what the Book of mormon says? Just try to think Prayer is very easy way , and you do not want to do it? So how can you know that if it's true if you actually in the VERY EASY WAY DO NOT WANT TO DO IT?sk GoD and he will manifest it unto you.
Dont be hard to your self you are just a human with Weaknesses please a
just my idea....
I'm happy you made it out alive and now you know the truth and surely I believe you have been set free from it!
Are you still here? You have been here since the 1800's. Those first seven videos of my liked videos debunked all that anti-Book of Abraham info.
Stop youre notorian obsessive lying. Not one word you say is true
The RCC stands in the air with no foundation,---- And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; 19 and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. --Show in the Bible where Joseph Smith is mentioned.
If these things happened in such a tiny area, then how can the lamanites be the main ancestors of the Indians?
WOW! I never thought you could find such a great example of confirmation bias! You silly people!
Where is the evidence? What is presented here is coincidence and speculation.
Yeah, assuming that this happened. But that is not how warfare in Mesoamerica functioned. We don't have one confirmed case of any Native American group completely destroying another. The first group the completely destroy any Indian nations there were the Spaniards. But until then, warfare was not genoocidal. Native peoples would allow their enemies an escape by custom, and also as I said, the aim was to capture (not kill) and then sacrifice. This vid does not get that right.
Part 1:
These guys are Anthropologists and yet they don't understand what Mesoamerican warfare was for? I cannot believe that. Warfare for the Mesoamerican peoples was not for genocide at all. It was ritualized for religious purposes. The purpose was NOT to eliminate your enemy; it was to capture him, then honor him since they became manifestations of the gods....then they would be sacrificed. Genocide was never the purpose. The one person who did not play by the rules was Lady Six Sky, but she
The Nephites were right in between? Then using the logic, then so where the Olmec and the Zapotec, since they lived right in that area at the same time..... Why were they not affected or eliminated?
@Tobsy1981 __Stephens and Catherwood's researches in Central America abundantly testify of this thing. The stupendous ruins, the elegant sculpture, and the magnificence of the ruins of Guatamala [Guatemala], and other cities, corroborate this statement, and show that a great and mighty people-men of great minds, clear intellect, bright genius, and comprehensive designs inhabited this continent. Their ruins speak of their greatness; the Book of Mormen [Mormon] unfolds their history-- Joseph Smith
So, now you're reduced to petty name calling??
1st: There were no Jeradites; nor were there any Nephites or Lamanites. Chiasmus is also found in the Bible.
2nd: As for the Chiasmus argument?? If you've bothered to read The Book of Joshua, you'll find it there. Since SmYth borrowed heavily from The Bible in writing BoM, the inclusions of Chiasmus comes as no surprise.
3: Your inability to understand how the use of Elizabethan English discredits BoM is merely a reflection of your own ignorance.
Wrong again. The linguistics contained in The Book of Mormon DO resemble the linguistics found in the King James Bible; but if the so-called "golden plates" were "translated" correctly, then there's absolutely NO reason for them to resemble KJV.
The fables contained in BoM were supposedly recorded long BEFORE the Elizabethan Era, but they weren't translated until well AFTER the Elizabethan Era ended. Accordingly, there's absolutely NO reason for the linguistics in BoM to resemble the KJV Bible.
Have read prayerfully the BoM, Pearl of Great Price, and D&C. The Holy Spirit has directed me into the light. God does not leave His children blind. Look at history, archeology, sociology, and use the brain God gave you; these things cry out that the Bible is a validated truth source of Christianity. LDS is vacant of this light. Please reexamine your choice without the LDS blindfold and muzzle.
Have you read the Book of Mormon and asked God if it was true? Have you even read the Book of Mormon and used your critical thinking skills to find if a person as uneducated as a farm boy could have possibly "made it up"? Or are you just going off the ideas of others to make up your mind? If there is even a small chance that this is a true book of scripture, would't it be important to rule it our simply for your salvation sake?
Joseph Smith quote:
" the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel, at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century . . . We are informed by these records that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six hundred years before Christ.
Joseph Smith quote, continued: (2 of 2)
They were principally Israelites, of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country."
Golly gee, mister. That was so specific. I'll change my opinion right now.
NOT! You've got nothing to show. Joseph's teachings are not consistent with modern church teachings because science has proven Joseph's claims impossible. Period.
You ever see the painting that hung in the Salt Lake temple showing Joseph preaching to the leaders of local tribes in Nauvoo? Kind of blows the limited geography theory, doesn't it?
Let me rephrase: During my 38 years as a devout, dedicated member of the church, I was taught that the BofM peoples covered N and S America, as well as the islands of the sea. Many references, conference talks, articles, and other sources confirm that this was the church's position for most of its first 150 years. Member perceptions, mine included, confirm this fact.
Please enlighten me. Cite the Times and Seasons article that present an alternate view.
You'll find plenty of accusations against Joseph Smith. Plenty of devious lies ment to discredit him, and an abundance of people who hate the church and seek to destroy it by any means possible. He was even killed by men who thought that if they killed him the church would dissolve. They were all wrong because it is Christ who leads the church. No amount of lies, hate, or discredit can undermine the work of Christ on Earth.
Continued
This is all baseless speculation. Actually, it's worse than that. This is classic double-think and circular-logic.
Double-think: The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed,
Continued>>>>>>>>>>
The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians---Funny because the Lakota, Cheyenne, Paiute, Utes, Abasorka, Comanche and Arapaho say the B of M is BS. Wouldn't you think they would know better and not some kid of English immigrant descent relatively new in the Americas? Don't tell me Joseph Smith knew more about our history, I'm Kahnawake Haudenosaunee, then we do.
"The Americas" were taught.
This may help but it appears you have already turned your back.
The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians; having been found through the ministration of an holy angel, and translated into our own language by the gift and power of God, after having been hid up in the earth for the last fourteen hundred years, containing the word of God which was delivered unto them.
History of the Church 1:315
The Book of Mormon....let us behold it coming forth out of the ground, which is indeed accounted the least of all seeds, but behold it branching forth, yea, even towering, with lofty branches, and God-like majesty, until it, like the mustard seed, becomes the greatest of all herbs. And it is truth, and it has sprouted and come forth out of the earth, and righteousness begins to look down from heaven, and God is sending His powers, gifts and angels, to lodge in the branches thereof. Joseph Smith
Great opposition and much persecution followed the believers of [the Book of Mormon's] authenticity; but it had now come to pass that truth had sprung out of the earth; and righteousness had looked down from heaven-so we feared not our opponents, knowing that we had both truth and righteousness on our side; that we had both the Father and the Son, because we had the doctrines of Christ and abided in them Joseph Smith
And opposition continues today.
“I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved.”
Joseph Smith Jr., The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ
I am just repeating what God said:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:19)
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
Then you believe totally wrong as usual. All species of elephants who ever lived were in Africa and Eurasian, none in the Americas. Mastodons and Mammoths which lived in the Americas and are NOT elephants died off due to climate change, not human predation. They were also gone by the time your mythical Jardites could have arrived. I would have expected an Angel to have none that. How did Mormon know about the Jardites if they killed each other off long before Lehi arrived, and the animals?
Well great. At least Dr. John Clark's work ethic and rigorous archaeology work is unmatched. His experiences have brought him to the front of meso american archaeology.---------- He is only considered good in the rather prejudiced walls of BYU, outside that, the scientific community considers him a quack. You are still left with officially LDS has never committed to where in the world the B of M took place. Maybe its because they have nothing to work with.
Care to explain why that comment made in Oct 1842 does not have his signature. Why LDS have officially disavowed the“landed a little south of the Isthmus of Darien" comment as being authored by Smith? In Joseph Smith’s letter (canonized as the 128th section of the LDS Doctrine and Covenants) the Book of Mormon land Cumorah is referenced among other locations of significance near the Finger Lakes.
Backpedal, you are the master of it. Fact, Smith never claimed the events took place in Central America. Comments Smith made in“AMERICAN ANTIQUITIES” editorial of July, 1842, clearly place the events in the upper Mississippi. Smith wrote, "in noticing the mounds, fortification, statues, architecture, implements of war, of husbandry, and ornaments of silver, brass, &c.-were to examine the Book of Mormon, " So where are the brass and silver artifacts? Evidence, Delusion is nonexistent
In 1874, he was arrested and tried for leading the massacre. Lee's first trial ended inconclusively with a hung jury, seemingly because of the prosecution's misguided attempt to portray Brigham Young as the true mastermind of the massacre. A second trial in 1877, in which the prosecution placed the blame squarely on Lee's shoulders, ended with his conviction and he was sentenced to death.[7] Lee never denied his own complicity, but claimed he hadn't personally killed anyone. From Wiki
William Ashworth notes in his autobiography that after the massacre, that the "leaders among the white men had bound themselves under the most binding oaths to never reveal their part in it." Lee told Brigham Young that the Indians had been solely responsible, that "no white men were mixed up in it."[6]
Lee later maintained that he had acted under orders from his militia leaders, under protest. Lee remained active in Mormonism and local government for several years. From Wiki
In March 1859, Cradlebaugh convened a grand jury in Provo, Utah concerning the Mountain Meadows massacre and several other unsolved murders and crimes that occurred in the territory, but the jury declined any indictments.[1][2] In doing this Cradlebaugh called out the federal troops and terrorized the local residents. His high handed actions on this occasion were condemned by both Utah Governor Alfred Cumming and United States Attorney General Jeremiah S. Black.[3] from Wiki He was a bad man!
WHere are all the domesticated animals mentioned in the B of M by 1492. Don't say they were killed off, show the paleontological record. We after all are not talking about a tenet of faith, but claim supposedly based in fact. Can you show where in the history of man, any animal man domesticated that went extinct? Breeds in the animal may be changed but in all cases the specie itself went on. In the 16th Century, Spaniards brought horses and pigs to the New World, there are wild populations now
Yes I am making a link that God can mark someone if He decides to do it. He does just that in Alma 3:6:
(Book of Mormon | Alma 3:6)
6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the "mark" which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
(New Testament | Mark 16:16 - 18)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(New Testament | Romans 3:31)
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 2)
1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(New Testament | Romans 6:15)
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Jesus Christ gave us the new covenant shortly before His death with the sermon on the mount. It is found in the book of Matthew. Jesus said:
(New Testament | Matthew 5:48)
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
This is part of the new covenant. He would not have said this if He didn't expect us to do it. I believe in Jesus Christ.
God is LOVE
This scripture is not just about the apostles. It states "He that believeth on me" That means any true Christian. Several verses in this chapter are not just about the apostles. For instance see verse 21:
(New Testament | John 14:21)
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
The members of the LDS Church have not justified rape, murder, or the other horrors you have mentioned here. Even Joseph Smith gave one of his horses to a black man. No we do not put Joseph Smith above Jesus. Our church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Not the church of Joseph Smith. Look at our song book and see who we sing praises to. What other lies would you like to say about Mormons? I will defend God's right to put a mark on any person or persons He chooses.
(New Testament | John 14:12)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(New Testament | James 2:20 - 22)
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
If you are referring to this scripture:
(Book of Mormon | Alma 3:6)
6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
Then yes I agree. Cain had a mark put on him also by God.
I don't believe you understand the scriptures you are quoting. Romans 11:6 is saying we are not saved by grace alone or works alone. Romans 4:4 Works are an obligation because we owe God everything, more than we can ever repay. Grace is a gift without which we can not be saved. Not everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved:
Matthew 7:21)
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Vine Deloria Jr., a Sioux Indian and political science professor at the University of Arizona, made a similar observation. ‘..., but he complained Mormons are taking Indian children off reservations and indoctrinating them in the church's beliefs.’
“Deloria continued by stating, ‘.he sees great parallels between Mormons and Indians in the 1840's to the 1890's when the federal government tried to break down their social structures.’ He said the Mormon Church Placement Program threatens Indians."
S.F. Whitney,We are now going to the Lamanites, to whom we intend to be messengers of instruction... We will show them that in consequence of their transgressions a curse has been inflicted upon them - in the darkness of their skins. We will have intermarriages with them, they marrying our young women, and we taking their young squaws to wife. By these means it is the will of the Lord that the curse of their color shall be removed and they restored to their pristine beauty..
I do believe in the preceding scripture you mentioned. I don't know Joseph's interpretation, but I have my own. It goes along with this scripture:
(New Testament | James 2:17 - 18)
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
God does not expect people to understand him in a vacuum by sitting there and waiting for these feelings. Your subjective feelings do not make something true. The book of mormon did not come from real places, none of these places or people are verifiable by genetics, linguistics, archeology. The Bible can be verified and you call that a trap? You present one of joseph's myths to me for reading. Been there done that. I don't enjoy racist fiction
Jesus Himself said I come to fulfill the law, not replace it. Jesus is the Χριστός, the Messiah. Do you actually believe the ten commandments no loner apply because of Jesus. I accept God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I accept one baptism, I accept one communion as set in the Last Super, and last I accept John VI vs 54-59. He who does not accept Jon VI 54-59 reject Jesus and eternal life.
believe in a just fair God, one who LOVES all of His children not just those who group together as Christians. God has made provision for every righteous person to be saved. It isn't the belief of a person that saves them, it is what they do:
Matt 7:21
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
See also
John 14:12
You are in complete denial. The articles I posted here says they did. Quotes by Young, Kimball, Phelps and Clark. I've read the B of M and suggest you do as well 2 Nephi 5:21,Alma 3: 6,3 Nephi 2:14-15 Perhaps Native Americans are not ready to give up their traditions. Are you so racist to believe our traditions are so inferior to yours, we should give them up in favor of yours?
I am neither lying or in denial. The articles I read said nothing about Native Americans becoming white. I see you found one. I don't know if Spencer Kimball's observations were correct or not. Perhaps the children on the reservation were out in the sun more than the children in the placement program. I don't know if you have read the Book of Mormon or not. I noticed the word tradition mentioned several times. Perhaps Native Americans are not ready to give up their traditions.
No one is a threat to the Book of Mormon. No one is made to join the LDS Church.:
(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:11)
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
That being said no one should be trapped by tradition or forced to live by things they do not agree with. We all have our agency.
Pagans did not do baptism. Baptism for the dead was done by Christians in the tabernacle of the congregation. Robes were worn in ancient times and ordinances were performed.
Ex 28:39-40
39 ¶ And thou shalt embroider the coat of fine linen, and thou shalt make the mitre of fine linen, and thou shalt make the girdle of needlework.
40 ¶ And for Aaron's sons thou shalt make coats, and thou shalt make for them girdles, and bonnets shalt thou make for them, for glory and for beauty. See also
Ex 29:7-9
LDS writer George Edward Clark said --"The writer has been privileged to sit at table with several members of the Catawba tribe of Indians, whose reservation is near the north border of South Carolina. That tribe, or most of its people, are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon). Those Indians, at least as many as I have observed, were white and delightsome, as white and fair as any group of citizens of our country.
I have read several articles about the LDS placement program and find nothing in regard to your assertion of making Native Americans white. On the contrary they stated that the program was to help Native Americans over the age of 8 get schooling at the expense of the foster parent willing to help them. All of the Native Americans families participating in the program agreed as it helped their children get a better education. The children lived with the foster parents during the school year.
No, I don't admit it, and your attempt at subterfuge is noted. You avoided my question about Kashrut, why. I brought it up because obviously JS was ignorant about the Torah and the laws in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Just like he never realized the animal found in SC in 1725 wasn't an elephant but an extinct cousin which no longer had existed for over 12000 years. Tell me what happened to the domesticated animals mentioned in the B of M, where were they in 1492?
.41 Then he will say to those who are on his left hand, in their turn, Go far from me, you that are accursed, into that eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you never gave me food, I was thirsty, and you never gave me drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not bring me home, I was naked, and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison, and you did not care for me -- he who does not do good works, does not have faith.
You've learned the mormon lines well. What are the fruits of mormonism: Polygamy, racism,abuse of women and many more. The fruits of love are found in the bible in the word of God not in Joseph's myths. 28 years a member of your god forsaken cult. Read the Bible come to Jesus not Joseph...Just Jesus. Jesus is our Prophet Warren Jeffs is more like Joseph Smith Then Tom Monson and they are all as faulse as the other. Jesus can save you wake up.
It is only through grace that we are saved, however not all will be saved and belonging to the PTL club isn't going to save you. Jesus said:
Matt. 7:21)
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 14:12)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Get busy.
Did this savior pay for all sin and guarantee eternal life? No, murder and adultery are not covered. You must obey lds law and pay a full tithe to become worthy enough to perform temple ordinance. Haven't you heard? Jesus said, "with men it is impossible". You will never be able to establish your own righteousness through law keeping. Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. The power of God is the cross and His grace.
Josephs mother said otherwise. Long before Joseph received the plates he would tell stories about the people in America as if he had lived with them his whole life. No more priesthood. Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, "Jesus", which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities..Josephs restoration also claimed the sons of Levi would make another animal sacrifice. This is blasphemy against the finished work of Jesus Christ.
(Packers parable on the atonement) which describes the impossible lds atonement. The parable in Matt. and Luke are referring to the stewards who are in charge until Christ returns. This is the word of Jesus to the waiting church, "Occupy till I come." We are not to sit back and say, "Well, the Lord is coming; there's no sense of doing anything. Also, Joseph claimed Isa 29:4 was the familiar spirit that led to the discovery and translation of the plates
You lack wisdom. Israel failed to keep the first commandment by worshiping other gods. Deu 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which [are] round about you; They didn't listen and were conquered and destroyed. The Old Testament proclaims One God to Israel. Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: Jesus said the same. Every idol they dig up are the false gods that led to the destruction of Israel and turned the temple to rubble.
You said it, "the savior of Mormonism is obeying the commandments" That is a false gospel. If you say that you keep the law and commandments you are a liar. How do we obey God? Rom 16:26 /, according To The Commandment of the Everlasting God, made Known To All Nations For The Obedience of (FAITH): By grace we are saved through Faith on Jesus. No man comes to the Father but by Jesus.
Josephs gospel of law keeping and ordinance has turned all Mormons into thieves and robbers
(New Testament | James 2:20)
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
(New Testament | John 14:12)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
So your prophet and high priest is Joseph and Thomas Monson? 3 years and you still don't trust Jesus? When will you learn? For I bear record that Mormons have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. They lack wisdom & Rom 10:3 / being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. There is 1 Truth and it isn't a church. Only 1 truth can set you free.
The early church was not called the Church of Jesus Christ. There were many churches - Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: If you say the faithful in Christ and the Holy Spirit left the earth, you are calling God a liar, "hell did not prevail"..God is an exalted man? No. Num 23:19 God is not a man. Painful to hear? The Word is sharper than a two edged sword, a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart. Jesus can set you free
Sir, I'm sorry but, you're wrong. The real name of the "Mormon" church is the Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints. We believe that Christ is our Savior. You see, the fulness of the gospel was lost after Christ and his apostles died. And we believe that God came to Joseph Smith telling him that he would restore the fulness of the gospel. That is what we believe :) But if you enjoy things where you try to disprove other religions you can learn another way to pick a fight with us on LDS.org
You missed the context. It is by faith "in and on Christ" we become fully obedient to the everlasting God. By faith we are able to keep all of the commandments. This has been made known to all of the nations of the earth. By grace we are saved through faith, not of works, law keeping or ordinance, "lest any man should boast".
No man comes to the Father, "eternal life" but by the Word of God, who is Jesus Christ.
Appears you would have said the same thing about Moses or John the Baptist.
You provide no facts only accusation.
Collaborators, don't put there testimony's on there tombstone or give false testimony on there death beds. Some left the Church and most came back. they had there chance to tell a different story. there statements remain. Your efforts are weak and stand no test, you it appears are left wanting.
The prophets of God will stand as a witness for you or against you its your choice.