I've seen this video so many times and every time I watch it I learn something new. Dr Aldrete is a born communicator and effortlessly leads the audience through this fascinating topic. Thank you for posting, Emory University.
Ironic that we are gifted with such an insightful lecture that we are rendered unable to hear. I feel the pain of every scribe who could not read the handwriting of a source needed for the publication of a paper which, should the source have been decipherable, been worthy of study for centuries.
4:24. "He even collected the letters that he wrote to other people, family and friends, and assembled these into books and published those." This is a really bad mistake. Cicero's letters were assembled into books and published only after his death. The letters to Atticus were not published until 100 years later.
That was brilliant. Truth is what can be argued for some but does this reflect virtue ? Imagine if Cicero and Machiavelli got together. Wow, it is possible to identify these strategies with our politicians. This is mind blowing. Thank you so much I really enjoy listening to your presentations.
thank you Dr. Aldrete, I have your Great Course, "History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective", we need History more than ever : we tend to think that with our technological & informational skills & access, that we are somehow smarter than the ancients..... don't think so...
Man I feel bad for people with a bad speaker. Excellent lecture, I guess I cannot expect you to to be good at everything. Just hook up some speakers it’s worth listening to.
That Universal gesture means something different in Latin America, more specifically Colombia. They have a very detailed and unique set of gestures. Wagging your eyebrow up like this would not mean recognition, but instead interest, intrigue, surprise and maybe even “wow look at that!"
And on the skill of defamation, the presenter demonstrates a final point, in addition to insinuation and guilt by association, which Cicero himself was not credited with: understatement. Well played.
This is very strange and very different than what I read in his texts and studied in my time... Cicero famously wrote on ethics, and how it was important to rhetoric. Quintilian, who praised Ciceronian style in rhetoric, famously defined rhetoric as "a good person speaking well." The "good person" part means he claimed that the rhetoric by definition was concerned with ethics. In that light, this is a fascinating speech for me. I wonder, now, about the actual history of his speeches and how they contrast with his writing.
I don't study Cicero but I admire the man, however, "desparate time calls desparate actions". Cicero may held these ethics in his heart, but his career advancement and his survival relied a lot on his ad hominem. The ethics in his speech is I believed, he said what he believed is correct or at least essential in his survival.
Great lecture. Thank you. I wonder, did Cicero ever write anything in which he addressed the question of whether it is ethical to use false statements for rhetorical purposes? Did he ever defend that the ends were justified by those means?
Don't know if he actually did, but I think he would have justified it as ethical because what he hoped to accomplish with it was supposedly a just cause, like his favorite "saving the republic". Though, coming from him, I wouldn't buy it for a second. We're talking about the guy who falsely accused someone of a conspiracy and had them executed without trial just so he could brag for the rest of his life about how he "saved the republic".
Cicero was a Professional Academic Elitist Bureaucrat who’s skills included making bad decisions, and giving magnificently delivered speeches. Despite being a Lawyer, he had little ethics and was morally incompetent. These characteristics more than likely sealed his fate . He created “Today’s Group Think”. He never admitted fault. He believed he was exempt from serious repercussions, but in Cicero’s case, Death by Assassination, was his fate. Thanks for your talk Emory University.
Pity about the audio. Greg's lecture is much better viewed on The Great Courses Plus. Problem there is their parser. You can use the word, phallus, in a review but clitoris is flagged as profanity 😅 😂 🤣 Greg, however, is simply outstanding!
No he didn’t invent them he just utilized them. Fallacies will always exist and you will fall for them over and over again because you are human and not a logic robot
The "resolution" to the dialectic he outlined at the end is a matter of basic taxonomy. One merely has to extrapolate into further strata of existence. Thus, _ontologically_ the superordination of ethics over results is essential. But _Teleologically_ the results _speak for themselves_
He was an amazing politician and statesman. While the entire roman republic was crumbling he was the only one fighting to hold it together. In the end he was killed for his conviction.
This is described in William L Shrier’ “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” Hitler studied a lot of history and was something of a history buff. But he wasn’t interested in the actual facts but on the lessons of the past.
Cicero's idea of appealing to Pathos is what is missing in bridging the gap of climate change deniers and the anti vaxx crowd. We are appealing to Logos for the mob too much these days. We need a classical Greek Sophist style communication to win the masses over.
"Humanistic Studies", because humanities is tough to spell for Americans. You guys can never call a spade a spade, can you. You always have to call it something different, like a shovel instead, even though a shovel is for picking up cinders from the ground, not for digging holes like a spade, and anyway, you call it calling a cigar a cigar there for no reason.
To Gregory Jones. Hi Greg, it is pronounced Chichero, like ch for chocolate both times, the first Ci and second ci. The best thing to pronounce something right, ask a person who speaks the language, as in Italian as is the case. I wish ALL young persons ask, especially where foreign language pronunciation is concerned. Regards Tanya.
We can't possibly go through every word that has been anglicized and trace it back to demand the original pronunciation. As you know, the evolution of language has many stops along the way which are legitimate for the time and place. Cicero as "kickero" is one example. Cheers!
Cicero sounds like a a more cynical and mendacious version of Demosthenes. Chronologically, how far apart were they? Because that would have bewn a debate for the ages
To make our system immune to Cicero's emotional populism local governments may be voted on, but governors are selected in a merotratic way (who has the best results), and then the president is the best governor. This is sort of what China is doing, but we need to do in a way that is less top-down.
Great insights! Thank you Sir. But I was distracted by the gestures that seemed random, the bouncing head and the open shirt with the hair on the torso showing.
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He’s so persuasive, I didnt have to hear a thing he said, but I’m sold...
🤣 Audio sucks...
O
A wonderfully clear, entertaining and illuminative presentation to Cicero"s strategies of persuasive and successful oration. Bravo!!!
Another, very important point in oratory : volume and audio system both of which is missing in this piece 😂
Zing!
Did you watch longer than 30 seconds? I had no trouble hearing him.
@@oldpublickcoffeeroasters8975 You are delusional for disputing something that is without question. The sound was horrible.
🤣🤣🤣
@@1oxyoke your hearing is horrible
I've seen this video so many times and every time I watch it I learn something new. Dr Aldrete is a born communicator and effortlessly leads the audience through this fascinating topic. Thank you for posting, Emory University.
The volume needs boosting on the audio
One of my favorite professors of history and also explains it very well with nice insight.
Ironic that we are gifted with such an insightful lecture that we are rendered unable to hear. I feel the pain of every scribe who could not read the handwriting of a source needed for the publication of a paper which, should the source have been decipherable, been worthy of study for centuries.
I used an app to turn up the volume. No problem.
@@LeonardWakshow was it?
4:24. "He even collected the letters that he wrote to other people, family and friends, and assembled these into books and published those." This is a really bad mistake. Cicero's letters were assembled into books and published only after his death. The letters to Atticus were not published until 100 years later.
I have no idea yet, how much of this is accurate but it is very very interesting and meaningful ! I am appreciating it.
The volume gets louder this speech is worth listening to if you want to understand Cicero and his ideas of persuasion
the speaker needs to show more chest hair, just to prove his point.
Nah that black goatee with the reverse fade iced his points.
He seems to be precluding the crucial gold medallion adornment?
That was brilliant. Truth is what can be argued for some but does this reflect virtue ? Imagine if Cicero and Machiavelli got together.
Wow, it is possible to identify these strategies with our politicians. This is mind blowing. Thank you so much I really enjoy listening to your presentations.
thank you Dr. Aldrete, I have your Great Course, "History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective", we need History more than ever : we tend to think that with our technological & informational skills & access, that we are somehow smarter than the ancients..... don't think so...
Man I feel bad for people with a bad speaker. Excellent lecture, I guess I cannot expect you to to be good at everything. Just hook up some speakers it’s worth listening to.
That Universal gesture means something different in Latin America, more specifically Colombia. They have a very detailed and unique set of gestures. Wagging your eyebrow up like this would not mean recognition, but instead interest, intrigue, surprise and maybe even “wow look at that!"
And on the skill of defamation, the presenter demonstrates a final point, in addition to insinuation and guilt by association, which Cicero himself was not credited with: understatement. Well played.
This is very strange and very different than what I read in his texts and studied in my time... Cicero famously wrote on ethics, and how it was important to rhetoric. Quintilian, who praised Ciceronian style in rhetoric, famously defined rhetoric as "a good person speaking well." The "good person" part means he claimed that the rhetoric by definition was concerned with ethics. In that light, this is a fascinating speech for me.
I wonder, now, about the actual history of his speeches and how they contrast with his writing.
I don't study Cicero but I admire the man, however, "desparate time calls desparate actions". Cicero may held these ethics in his heart, but his career advancement and his survival relied a lot on his ad hominem. The ethics in his speech is I believed, he said what he believed is correct or at least essential in his survival.
This was fabulous. Thank you. Studying Cicero with my kids.
Great lecture. Thank you. I wonder, did Cicero ever write anything in which he addressed the question of whether it is ethical to use false statements for rhetorical purposes? Did he ever defend that the ends were justified by those means?
Its called "Realism".
Don't know if he actually did, but I think he would have justified it as ethical because what he hoped to accomplish with it was supposedly a just cause, like his favorite "saving the republic". Though, coming from him, I wouldn't buy it for a second. We're talking about the guy who falsely accused someone of a conspiracy and had them executed without trial just so he could brag for the rest of his life about how he "saved the republic".
I know that he regularly appealed to Pathos to win court cases, esp. nationalism instead of leaning on Logos.
34:10 I saw Obi Wan Kenobi use this very technique in the first Star Wars film.
mutinyonthekitkat such an underrated comment; you made me laugh for a sec lol.
wow this amazing and very well put together. Everything necessary and totally hitting the spot. thank you very much !
dude, sound sucks on this video
@@ryanmay3022 No it doesn't.
Cicero was a Professional Academic Elitist Bureaucrat who’s skills included making bad decisions, and giving magnificently delivered speeches. Despite being a Lawyer, he had little ethics and was morally incompetent. These characteristics more than likely sealed his fate . He created “Today’s Group Think”. He never admitted fault. He believed he was exempt from serious repercussions, but in Cicero’s case, Death by Assassination, was his fate. Thanks for your talk Emory University.
Proof that being a good orator only gets you so far.
The Robert Harris Cicero books were great
Pity about the audio. Greg's lecture is much better viewed on The Great Courses Plus. Problem there is their parser. You can use the word, phallus, in a review but clitoris is flagged as profanity 😅 😂 🤣 Greg, however, is simply outstanding!
So Cicero basically invented all the logical fallacies that get used in politics today
No he didn’t invent them he just utilized them. Fallacies will always exist and you will fall for them over and over again because you are human and not a logic robot
All that will remain of us is what is written down.
The "resolution" to the dialectic he outlined at the end is a matter of basic taxonomy. One merely has to extrapolate into further strata of existence. Thus, _ontologically_ the superordination of ethics over results is essential. But _Teleologically_ the results _speak for themselves_
I incorporated that bromide to provide my exposition of conceit with a healthy apportionment of jocularity so as not to appear to be pedantic.🧐
And preemptively stifle any corollary accusations of overly grandiloquent logorrhea
Not quite "provide my exposition" but substantiate pre existing perceived jocular subtext, rather
Ah yes very basic I concur indubitably a child could have figured this out good chap!!
@@Black_pearl_adrift Yeah, I was on meth when I wrote this crap. I'm not even gonna see if it makes any sense!? 😕
If the gloves don’t fit, you must acquit!
Trump was taking notes. Also for the ones who can't hear..
Ever heard of turning on closed captions?
excellent lecture
This is literally trumps playbook
That was fun and informative. Thanks
Volumes too quiet on this
So Cicero was a typical lawyer then, results over truth, but claim to be honourable.
Just like every successful politician ever.
This is completely wrong. You have clearly not read any accounts of his life or his philosophical works.
He was an amazing politician and statesman. While the entire roman republic was crumbling he was the only one fighting to hold it together. In the end he was killed for his conviction.
He’s Hopping around like Rodney Dangerfield
well to summarize all of this. is to have a charismatic tic sociopath character
Cadeline was probably... what the f... this dude is lying..
Why do they put these cartoon images on it?
15:18
Well done thanks for sharing
Cicero seems like the Al Sharpton of his day.
Hitler must have studied the classics. Very demonstrative when speaking, whipping this Nazis into a frenzy.
This is described in William L Shrier’ “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” Hitler studied a lot of history and was something of a history buff. But he wasn’t interested in the actual facts but on the lessons of the past.
This is the level of scholarship we've sunk to. Does everyone have to grind their axe?
Cant hear.
Mild surprise a reaction to gasping :O you’re closing the mouth
I CANT HEAR YOU
Sleepy Joe Biden
Cicero's idea of appealing to Pathos is what is missing in bridging the gap of climate change deniers and the anti vaxx crowd. We are appealing to Logos for the mob too much these days. We need a classical Greek Sophist style communication to win the masses over.
"Humanistic Studies", because humanities is tough to spell for Americans.
You guys can never call a spade a spade, can you. You always have to call it something different, like a shovel instead, even though a shovel is for picking up cinders from the ground, not for digging holes like a spade, and anyway, you call it calling a cigar a cigar there for no reason.
I need you to fix your collar.
Afraid of some chest?
Perfection !
To Gregory Jones. Hi Greg, it is pronounced Chichero, like ch for chocolate both times, the first Ci and second ci.
The best thing to pronounce something right, ask a person who speaks the language, as in Italian as is the case.
I wish ALL young persons ask, especially where foreign language pronunciation is concerned. Regards Tanya.
We say the same thing about 'Aluminum' but it's an endless complaint
We can't possibly go through every word that has been anglicized and trace it back to demand the original pronunciation. As you know, the evolution of language has many stops along the way which are legitimate for the time and place. Cicero as "kickero" is one example. Cheers!
This is not how it is pronounced in America or Canada he is correct for his context
I didn't know many believed Cicero was the greatest orator of the all time...
White Ruth Gonzalez Mark Smith Ronald
The irony of this video - barely audible!
Robinson George Hall Amy Taylor Matthew
Smith Eric Thomas Barbara Brown Angela
no audio
Cicero sounds like a a more cynical and mendacious version of Demosthenes. Chronologically, how far apart were they? Because that would have bewn a debate for the ages
Very relevant in the Trump era
The Roman Republic died due to a cancer called 'Oligarchy'.
Today we would call it corporatism.
Someone needs a pink slip
Williams Robert White Sandra White Brenda
Oh no. Plump Trump must be a descendent.
All I hear is conversion on aristotelian rhetoric composed of ethos pathos and logos.
This has Trump written all over
Hello Eduardo
To make our system immune to Cicero's emotional populism local governments may be voted on, but governors are selected in a merotratic way (who has the best results), and then the president is the best governor. This is sort of what China is doing, but we need to do in a way that is less top-down.
as opposed to when Barack Hussein Obama used to shed crocodile tears after shootings? Dickhead...
@@tiarnan76 ding ding ding!! Winner! That is exactly what the charlatan Obama did.
Yes exactly
Well, I've alway preferred Demosthenes imperatives.
Great insights! Thank you Sir. But I was distracted by the gestures that seemed random, the bouncing head and the open shirt with the hair on the torso showing.
He looks like Penn Gilette with AIDs
NOBODIES GOT AIDS!
Check out my episode 'Rhetoric & Snake Charmers ' YKim