Brexit and the Irish border - BBC Newsnight
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2018
- How do we solve the issue of the Irish border and Brexit? Evan Davis takes a look
Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.
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It's not the Irish border, it's the British border in Ireland.
an update in 2021....Ireland up until this year, the UK's most profitable European customer, now has a balance of trade surplus...£2bn in lost EU trade, a border in the Irish Sea.....welcome to brexit, sir......
Simple answer add Northern Ireland make it again one whole country
Why dont we just take ireland and add it to the UK. Wouldnt be much they could do about it
@@tonysmith5812 Ireland loves the EU
Tony Smith the days of Britain taking over other countries is long gone pal😉
@@tonysmith5812 ha you fuckwit , thats like taking France totally independent country what are you going to do invade
@@tonysmith5812 It is very sad to see the particularily low level of common sense and knowledge from residents of UK.
The English really shot themselves in the foot on this one... United Ireland and an independent Scotland is coming.
hope so less hand outs for us send them as nether bring anything to the table
@scotchprofessor yes you have education but it's terrible under the SNP. you dream of days of old
doesnt really shoot us in the foot it makes thing so much simpler
Yes
@@froggreen2067 nope
Britian has never understood Ireland, the border was drawn up by looking at a map, without knowing how it would affect people on both sides. There will never be peace in Ireland for as long as the unionists claim that their rights are more significant than the nationalists.
It's delightfully ironic that Ireland is preventing britain from getting home rule. Karma!
It isn't preventing it though. It is going to happen. Ireland is responding in an understandable way but the EU is using Ireland and the troubles as a weapon. If the EU really cared about Ireland then it would not be ruling out a really good trade deal with the UK that solves all these problems..
Lol.
Jericho You are missing the point. If it’s gonna hurt anyone it will be in Ireland. If the U.K. crashes out Ireland gets a hard border. I’m impressed you have an 800 year memory. Shame about your comprehension skills.
The people who will be hurt most by your stupid Brexit are the British. That's obvious to everyone.
If you you think ireland the uk or the eu wont be affected by brexit then you are all misguided though i do think the uk will be hit the worst. The US china and russia are the ones who will benefit from brexit. The old divide and conquer comes to mind here.
It's surely a British border on Ireland , Ireland's border is the sea
Hands up Brexiteers which one of your kids you will send to man the border when the IRA start up again?
It would be good for Ireland to be more economically independent of Britain.
this is unresolvable, different regulatory system and/or different tariff system must mean a border, it is international law and interest of every country. you cannot be just in custom union without full regulatory alignment or you cannot apply this only for trucks crossing on the border on roads. cannot work.
Give Ireland back to the Irish, don’t make us have to take it back 🇨🇮🇨🇮
Especially since the whole Northern Ireland voted to remain, and the percentage of people in Ireland supporting the EU is at about 70-80% which is one of the highest values in the EU.
If there is a hard Brexit, the UK has to decide wheater the hard boarder is in between Northrn ireland and teh Rep. of Ireland OR in between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. Noth would violate the Good Friday agreement and the latter would violate the alliance between the Torys and the DUP in Westminster.
Ireland’s border is the Sea surrounding it. The foul remnant of partition, is a vile British border.
Hes an ulster scot who shows his Irish passport when he goes on holiday.
Used to meet Evan Davis every other day around old Brompton road Earl’s Court I guess he must live around there?
United Ireland is coming :) Haha Ulster Scot. Dying breed, Unionism is dying a slow death :)
Matthew McNerlin it sure has speed up the border poll but like brexit and trump you can't really know who is gonna win till the votes have been counted but as far as the time saves by brexit for a border poll honestly 5-30 years saved
You clearly havnt looked at the last MPs elected the DUP now have more MPs than ever before in history and out number the rest. With the treatment dished out regarding Northern Ireland by the EU we now have even less wishes to leave the UK. So dream on regarding your out dated United Ireland. Republicans divided this island when they toke the Irish Republic out of the Uk now learn to live with your flawed move.
ernest rogen
''With the treatment dished out regarding Northern Ireland by the EU we now have even less wishes to leave the UK.''
You mean looking out for you and trying to make sure youre not just a neglected region of the UK in a post brexit wasteland.
Cop on, NI is one of the poorest parts of Northern Europe, your loyalty is misguided.
tubemark1
The UK doesn't do nationalism, unless it British-English nationalism.
Its also Anti-UK, unless you are English so whats your point?
Old chaps voting on things that will only impact their grandchildren.
It's against international law to have a hard border as the hood Friday agreement does not allow a border
The hood Friday agreement wasn’t worth the hood it was printed on.
Not forgetting the effect at the Welsh ports of Pembroke, Fishguard and Holyhead
Dublin gnp grew by 35% 2020. But ye will pay the £13 billion N.I. fund for years. Scotland will become a Norway. Richer they have more oil. Wales we love you and want to see you prosper. England nice decent people. It's time for you to fully acknowledge your brutal genocide in Ireland.
Is it really that slower to travel by see, more so cheaper...their entire goods must go through the Euro-tunnel, or they have to load and unload ships two times.
I imagine the shipping company might have goods to deliver to the UK, then find goods in the UK bound to the EU, to fill up the empty space and then keep going to the EU. And pretty much doing the same thing the other way around.
26+6=1
6:17 What am I looking at?
It's surely ridiculous for people who really wanted Brexit - all 10 of them, plus Cambridge Anakytica's customers - to expect the Irish either to give a damn what they desire, or to assist with their neurotic, nationalistic self-destruction. But it's equally unsurprising given how self-interested their position is.
Yes I voted "remain".
Now I'm leaving soon as I can; there's no way I'm enduring the consequences of others' stupidity any more than I have to
I could tell you voted remain. You managed to write a lot of words without a single grammatical or spelling mistake!
I seriously hope the british establishment come to their senses , but somehow i think they are too far down the rabbit hole to reverse now it would cause civil unrest. Brexit has been a mess from the day the votes were counted. Lets be honest very few people give a fuck about northern ireland in england and would soon get rid if they could , the sad thing is their stuck with the uk until the northern irish say otherwise. The chance of the uk breaking up will depend on how successful brexit is which is anyones guess , but if you look at who is to take charge of making brexit a success im not very confident to be honest. Which of these politicians would you like to take charge because we know may and corbyn are inept to say the least. So we have the following candidates boris jrm gove fox abbott mcdonnell thornberry and i thought we had it bad in ireland. One thing i do know is no one else knows for sure what will happen after brexit and if they tell you they do they are lieing. To the normal working class and lower class of these two islands brace yourselves and get ready as things might get rough for us , hopefully not we wait and see.
So what becomes of the nonsense of voting for Brexit in order 'to get control of the UK border'? The fact is that after this madness there will be even less control over the UK border than there was before.
Snobbishness that someone can write English correctly?
Geroff Milan well fuckoff then good riddance to bad rubbish
But hey, burgundy passports and £350m a week to the NHS.
WTO Brexit means border checks - otherwise you are in violation of WTO rules.
They don't need to be done at the border and there are trusted trader schemes we have with the rest of the world under WTO. Its a solvable problem with good will on both sides
@@ElectricInevitability
Nonsense. Their are border checks between Sweden and Norway. If they cant do it without UK certainly cannot do that. Its fantasy.
If the Lady at 5:12 was the UK's chief negotiator there would already be a post brexit deal in place
Can you brexit and a friendly immigration ( able to allow and approve people coming in to UK)? @ the border.
Its not a republic or northern border. Its a eu non eu border.
Complex problems are not solved by simplistic soundbites....
At 2:40. They could always sail to Europe from Rosslare.
Carparks now routinely use number plate recognition systems so it is doubtful that this would be prohibitively expensive for a nation-state.
You're a Mogg slurping moron.
Long before the eu there was a common travel area that was agreed between Ireland and the UK.
There wasn't a hard border and there doesn't need to be one when we leave. Whose going to build it?
I'll wait.
All traffic was subject to inspection with customs posts across the area. This is not the same system which exists right now that ended the troubles in NI.
It is most likely that Britain will build it out of necessity.
Britan no fucking shit
That border crossing is called Ballabridge. It's near County Monaghan in the Republic. I'm from Monaghan and I watch Newsnight. I can't believe Evan Davis was at Ballabridge! Lol
Do you sound like people from down and Belfast? or is your accent more similar to the Dublin accents?
-just wondering
Yugoslav Nationalist well the Monaghan accent is more of a Mid Ulster accent. It's not like either Dublin or Belfast accent. But I will often get confused with people from from Derry or Donegal. Are you living in Ireland. Where are you from?
I have an Irish passport and I have never been to Ireland LOL
Northern Ireland voted 56% to remain in the EU. Overall, the UK voted a little less than 52% to leave. If 52% constitutes a mandate then so does 56%. Britain should exit Northern Ireland.
Yes but the agreement was THE PROTOCOL so this is what was agreed let's hope the UK backs off it has no right to change what as been agreed?
"obstructive piece of rock" hmm and the English are just realizing this😂
Ahh yes the classic 'business' mindset investing in something that might turn out to be completely pointless and unusable... the whole thing is pure mad idiocy!
What does it mean a hard border please
But, 'Soft Brexit' was not on the ballot paper - it just said "leave the European Union" and everyone knew that meant leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, as remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union would be remaining in the European Union and that was the other distinct option.
Iazzaboyce No it did not it was an stupied ballot created by morrons
"Everyone" in the UK doesnt seem to have a very good understanding of what these institutions are or what the EU ACTUALLY does
everyone knew it? must have been why the most searched thing on google the day after brexit was "what is the eu"
That’s why the people of the 6 counties voted REMAIN.
'Camera' - unacceptable said the EU...
It is mental to put up cameras on a border in "nowhere".
I am 100% sure that camera smashing will become the new sport after "glassing".
If you dont know what glassing is, feel free to look it up.
By the current "mood" it would not hold up for a week.
its the British border in Ireland the irish border is the beach
Where is Gaybriel Gaytehouse?
Here's my explantion: @
Funny how this isn't a big deal on the Swiss (not in the EU) border. And isn't Norway outside the EU too?
Neither the Swiss nor the Norwegians take issue with border checkpoints, or had a civil war over them.
I live in Sweden, we have very long border with Norway not being in the European union. Apart from customs office sometimes panicing it is wide open and neither us Swedes or the Norweigans minds much We trust each other...
Yes, but Norway is part of a few deals like Schengen (?), England wants to leave completely.
A United Ireland Is Coming Fast... LIKE It Or Not But We Have Waited Long Enough🇮🇪
I do hope that succeeds.
Rule Britannia!
Probably not
No it wont.
I think a referendum on Northern Ireland as a autonomous province of Ireland would work several other factors for reconciliation like the dissolution of the new IRA would be important to ensure the loyalists that they are safe.
At the same time if Northern Ireland could remain In the EU whilst in the UK could work but then again Scotland would probably want similar concessions as they voted as a majority to stay too.
Did the six counties not vote to remain in the EU
Yes. we voted to stay.
I think the problems of Brexit have been squarely pointed at the UK. "Its your fault Brits". Not enough has been mentioned about the old relationship we used to have with Europe, when it was the EEC. I think the complications occured when the powers that be decided to up the anti on what was a nice workable free trade zone, and try to create a Federal Superstate, without asking the peoples of Europe if that was what they wanted. Was it the Lisbon Treaty that initiated this? If so just scrap it and return to the good old EEC, and we will be a long way to resolving issues that at the start, were initiated by Brussels, not the people of Britain ( as opposed to the govt of Britain, who have been complicit in the whole affair)
Ulster Scots? Yeah, right. The actual Scots would freak if they ever thought they had to take you back.
Joe Francis
Take you back? They're going nowhere so I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it.
Brexiteers can't have both. Either have a hard Brexit and leave Northern Ireland in the customs union or a soft Brexit for the entire UK,
Why does northern ireland have to stay in the customs union
Do you think most people really want northern ireland
Move out form irleand Gibraltar and falklands
We,i in UK we do not want a solid border with the Ireland as remember the Irish are the back born of UK..ALL WE NEED TO DO IS TO CHECK OUR HOUSE AS THERE ARE ALSO MANY IRISISH AS NEIGHBOURS IN UK. ALSO ARE FRIEND
Here's Fedex...a company that knows a bit about international trade, on transhipping goods from or to Ireland thru the UK, even in a No Deal situation.
Goods
moved by road from Europe to Ireland are routed through the UK.
Post-Brexit in a No Deal scenario, the UK will sign up to the Common
Transit Convention (CTC). This will cover goods transiting through the
UK to/from EU countries, so there will be no change to current process.
For air shipments, the current system Remain on Board (ROB) will be used, so there will be no change to current process.
There is no requirement for you to complete or do anything different in respect of transhipping goods.
So this BBC report is more fear mongering.
The Irish backstop is (NOT) a (PROBLEM) for Britain , the EU will FORCE (Dublin) as an EU member to (enforce the border) with Northern Ireland ... The check points etc will be on the Irish side not in ( Northern Ireland ) it will be with (THEM) to deal with any (check points) or trouble it may cause.
You're a moron
The border "issue" is dreamt up by remainers to undermine Brexit.
Norway (non EU) and Sweden doesn't have a harder border.
Hungary and Romania (both EU) has a hard border.
You’d think if it wasn’t an issue then it wouldn’t be an issue for politicians either 🤔
Why not just give N Ireland back and the problems are solved .
Ha Catholic or Protestant
I just want the people of Northern Ireland to have peace.I do not give a shit how this should happen. They are Christian and are good people. regardless of which ever denomination they belong to. I am from the Republic of Ireland but I can respect my brothers from Northern >Ireland. And I do just that. They are good Irish people.
republic of scotland and ireland!
So Scotland has a second referendum and gains it's independence from the UK. Then agrees a new union with the Republic of Ireland, to form the Republic of Scotland and Ireland. Now Unionist can feel at home as Ulster Scots, and Republicans can feel at home too. And the problem of Northern Ireland is solved forever. Nobel Peace Prizes for everyone, with a celebratory dinner of haggis and potatoes.
lol - if only
Bio Meta Scotland may go independent but it will never be a republic.
Anthony Mullen Maybe in time. Our main aim is independence..
Why?
Our border is the beach ☘
Cork to Santander,
Dublin to Roscoff, just more traffic, and goodbye Chunnel.
''We can Brexit and go back to EFTA as we were from 1960 to 1972.'' said a Brexiteer :)) I said : ''Why stop to 1960 and why not regress till 2500 BC Stonehenge ?:) Stonehenge was a good model ! :D''
It's the same bit of land. I'm fairly confident if Terrorirsts and drug lords won't go to Ireland to get to the UK and if they do just keep an eye on it.
maybe the brits sould just move to texas an help trump build his wall
Maybe we should just build a wall along the irish border. I would happily pay extra tax for that
Tony Smith you’re so helpful with this peace process
Tony Smith let's have a full on war Mate. I want to remind you arseholes that sing "No surrender to the IRA" that you did already twice. More British arrogance. I'm "all in" as your troops say due to a North London Jew who joined Now 102.2 radio in Edmonton 2011 who ran a unique promotion. A potato to a sick kids hospital for a chance to win U2 tickets. U2 boycotted Alberta. I will personally go to a full on war with ye due to your Canadian Jew racist friends like Ezra Levant who influenced Brexit by 8%. And Disreali his actions cut the deepest. Famine not Genocide so fancy taking on 25 European countries? The world hates you Britain it's time to let that sink in.
The North Channel and the Irish Sea are the true border. 26+6=1
i cant wait for the loyalists to kick off again
Why not just give them a referendum on whether they stay as part of the UK or rejoin the rest of their kin?
Who are you talking about? You clearly know little or nothing about NI and its history
the golf players are not getting it.
one said that Ireland will not accept a hard border. if the UK doesnt stay in the customs union, then Ireland will have to have a customs border, whether you like it or not. someone will have to check the goods and the people crossing.
the other, the woman, said that people voted and you cannot change it. of course you can. May can legally reverse the A50. yes, you voted to leave, but it doesnt mean that the UK HAS TO leave
The huge stakes at play for Ireland were underlined by the Central Bank, which warned this week that a no-deal Brexit would cost Ireland 4 per cent of GDP in the first year - an €8 billion economic hit including huge disruption. The speed at which it said a no-deal Brexit would hit was particularly notable and it is the first time an Irish official body has done this.
Maybe Leo Varadkar should offer concessions like a time limited Irish backstop or removing it completely from the withdrawal agreement and stop peace in Ireland being used as a pawn in EU negotiations!
It is a British border. your problem Britain,
Put a wall up.... not really a problem is it
@@tonysmith5812 that would create more problems
The Irish voted no to the Lisbon Treaty and the EU rejected it under Amendment 32. They renegotiated it with guarantees that military neutrality and abortion were central taboos to Irish life. With this agreed the people of Ireland voted yes.In the short time since that period in Irish life they have rapid reaction military units and armed police on their streets and abortion is now on demand. Is it not clear that the Irish need to have a new referendum given these failings and "backstops" to abolish the Treaty of Lisbon?
There were guarantees that it would keep control over military neutrality , corporation taxes, social issues such as abortion but not specifically that (the abortion guarantee was not that abortion would be kept but merely that only Ireland could decide on the issue), workers rights and it also got to keep it's full time seat in the EU commission (big win). Ireland has a rapid reaction military unit but is only involved with UN missions. It is not available for anything other than that. Ireland has a long history of involvement in UN deployments predating Lisbon. As for armed police on the streets, we had that before the treaty but that's nothing got to do with Lisbon treaty anyway as that is a police force not an army. There are very few armed police and they are part of the ERU (emergency response unit). You will almost never see an armed police officer on the street.
Abortion has now been allowed for by a recent referendum (it's not in law yet so it will be next year before any abortions will actually happen) but in any case the fact is that it was decided by the people of Ireland basically proves the point i.e. the guarantees that were sought have just been played out in one instance.
Well said ahlads. I'm sure Mr Holmes may not agree, but he's not the biggest fan of the facts I'd imagine.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but as Britain is going to be outside the EU But still wishing to comply with a pre existing internationally recognised agreement drawn up between two sovereign nations Isn't it down to remaining EU states to create the means of protecting their borders not just the UK? With a solution which best serves the interests of the North and Republic of Ireland Not the political whims of those who have shown little interest in the region until now.
WTO will require monitoring of goods and traffic. Republic will remain with EU customs and tariffs. UK wants its own so no alternative to a hard border. Direct links to Europe is Ireland's way forward and the UK will lose a lot of money as it won't be a landbridge to Europe
No 'HOPE' here !
Very sad!
The people of Northern Ireland should be offered one more fainal vote with only two options: 1. A fully united Ireland under the EU only or 2. Northern Ireland remains as part of Britain separate from Europe and a hard boarder is implemented. If the North Irish people honestly vote for option 1 then it's all hands off for Britain. Paying in Euros for most of the stores in the county and then suddenly having to pay in British Pounds for the fuel station just up the street is beyond crazy!
What was ever wrong with a free trade EEC type deal? Why did the EU even have to come into being? The politics of creeping political expansionism of the EU has poisoned the well - should have just stayed as a trade pact.
Brexit is good for ROI, we will get the rest of our country back. May take 10 or 20 years, but we are getting closer.
thatoriordanlad im kind of hope, if ROI gets the 6 county,that most British would leave.
thatoriordanlad when where?
@thatoriordanlad ah an irishman with brains how refreshing
@@mccarraa ahah they have been there longer then the USA you bellend
@@JuanKuzov what are you on about? None of them are alive today. People can move to Spain or UK, I don't care. They moved the Irish people, time we moved them Back.
When Brexit turns out to be a huge success I hope everyone holds their hands up and admits they were wrong
Conversely if it turns out to be a complete shit show will Leavers admit the same ?
Carrickboy of course they would
J B they won't sadly they will just pretend they were pro brexit because humans in politics have a massive problem admitting they are wrong
J B
Lol brexit hasn t even appened yet and leavers are already calling the eu a bully because things aren t going as they have planned...
Leavers will just blame the eu when brexit will be a complete shit show
2000 crossing on the irish border no way it can be man'd or monitored. It was saturated with soldiers during the troubles. The British could police all of it then i doubt it can be done now even with drones.
NI has a problem if NI does not leave the UK before the Brexit then NI have to pay the Brexit price for the next 500 years - yes they have to pay even if they leave the UK later after the Brexit. Why does Boris not mention these facts?
So long as the six counties remain part of the Uk Brexit can't happen.World trade rules say there must be a border.That is why the Dup wanted Brexit.Ditch the six counties, then Uk should join Nafta.Save ten billion pounds 💷 a year.
Seize the opportunity Ireland!
Wot, you guys going to try that again.
@@tonysmith5812 🔔 end
@@nervesinapattern7261 You tube warrior eh? we will see who the bell end is when the EU flood Ireland with immigrants.
YES 💯%✔️ UNITED IRELAND🇮🇪🇮🇪
The UK needs to commit to a withdrawal timetable, after 800 years of interference in Ireland it's time for the Brits to get out!
Who exactly is going to make them, where were you during The Troubles? if you're so committed how about you take some responsibility yourself instead of shouting words.
Lug Lamfhada
Northern Ireland will still be a separate entity, and the UK will still have a role in NI so not much would change.
@Lug Lamhfhada irish out of britain seriously from the days of the oneals you fuckers are everywhere here, irish out of britain except the good looking woman.
The solution is for a hard border to be constructed, and Northern Ireland being declared an economic zone with a corporate tax rate of 7%. The Global Corporations using Ireland as a tax haven can simply move a few miles away to Northern Ireland creating the least fuss, before the EU impose their planned harmonious tax rate across Europe in an effort to bring the business to Germany and France.
The UK and Ireland should simply tell the EU they are keeping things as is for the sake of Peace. If the EU have an issue with it, Eire and UK should take them to the International Criminal Court and or the UN to debate that Peace comes before Trade, that the reason some countries Trade is to keep the peace i.e Germany and France. Some countries contemplating leaving the EU ( Poland, Netherlands...) would surely back the plan, the USA definitely...Do nothing, nothing at all. It would be a good example to the world of how peace treaty's should be honored above everything else.
I don't suppose they could just sail round? or is that too Irish?
Steve Wiles; At the moment it's cheaper to use the land bridge. Along with that there's less risk of delays due to storms by using the land bridge. That's why so many use Larne in the north rather than the longer sea routes further south. The 20 hour sailing from Rosslare to Chergbourg or the even longer Cork to Roscoff/Cherbourg routes are very risky in winter. New services are openimg up but it's not ideal.
What does too Irish mean?
@@TheKingkeano It's a phrase used by lowly state educated anti Irish bigots in Engerland to attempt to highlight their "supposed" superior intellect. it only confirms that state education in britain is drastically underfunded & people like the example above, should really have to pass an exam before being permitted to vote. Seriously, his dog probably is required to get a licence for him.
Evan you are standing on a road clearly unsuitable for an HGV and you should know every commercial vehicle over 7tons needs to be fitted with a tachometer, the short message is technology will provide the solution to crossing borders as of course it is already doing elsewhere.
Why didn't you talk to anyone in NI under the age of 70? It's their future which is at stake, not those auld fossils.
The solution is a United Ireland in the EU
@Dinky Man The solution is getting rid of the EU and ever European country can return to how they were.
@@VincentRE79 devolve the EU back to its state in the 60s and everything would be better
@Douglas Ballantine Yes take it back to a basic Customs Union.
@@VincentRE79 that's my main issue with the EU ever since its inception all it has been is increased centralisation of power to Brussels. There's now even sincere talk of a possible common European army
@Douglas Ballantine Yes I agree but the average Remainer thinks this is all rubbish. I do not understand why so many voted to remain with an organisation that has not really shown it's true intentions yet.
Nothing wrong with irexit
I am from Derry. I am Northern Irish. Not Irish. Not British. My Country. Stop trying to give it away to other Countries and people. If we decide we no longer want to be associated with the UK, will we decide here what we shall do. I prefer that we go it alone.
Poppycock! See my reply to the nutty comment below right at the bottom for what's REALLY GOING ON HERE! Saves the best for last!
The famous Irish border that you UKishers don’t even know where it is.
If you want to know the best way to keep northern Ireland safe take a look at the demilitarized zone in Korea. It needs land mines and anti tank structures.
Ireland's biggest customer is the UK. The Ireland UK border is a special case. With today's technology there is no need for physical border.
You need to stop reading tabloids
Ireland exports more to Belgium these days than to the UK. US is main export market. www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-import-partners/
build a wall around ireland they have been trouble for many years
rodx39 sure only 500 km of wall costing tens of billions of pounds the UK can't afford to spend on something like that really good idea and then have it blown up by the IRA very smart
let the eu pay for it
Those tight pants look ridiculous on you. But BBC's hateful of coverage of the Brexit is even more ridiculous.
Deal with it!
Politics strikes again!
USA and Canada has a border marked by painted lines on local roads. A number of check points all along the line.
Don't fucking compare Ireland to canada/american border
Google false equivalence
I cannot see the problem because except in times of “trouble” the land border in Ireland has been fairly open for its entire existence. In WW2 British servicemen would cross into Ireland on holiday or just to get a decent un-rationed meal. One Navy man told me they were only allowed to go over in civilian clothes which most of them did not have. Nevertheless they would share out what they had and one civilian outfit would do about three sailors. One would wear the hat, one would wear the jacket and another would wear the trousers. They would only be over for a few hours and having made the gesture to Ireland's neutrality they were not bothered. They were also spending good money which is always welcome. Herds of cattle would be driven across then to take advantage of the higher prices in Northern Ireland.
In normal times Customs posts on the main crossing points prevented people taking more than 20 cigarettes into NI and into the UK mainland if they were a few pence cheaper in the Republic. For their part of the Republic's Customs officers valiantly tried to prevent banned books such as Lady Chatterley's Lover getting into Ireland to undermine morals of the nation and the security of the state. There were dozens possibly hundreds of minor crossing points nobody bothered about. At the height of the recent troubles in the IRA made considerable money out of the border by pumping diesel fuel across into the Republic through underground pipes and no one seems to have lost too much sleep over that.
Until the advent of the EU travel between Ireland and the UK was as easy as travel between London and Manchester with no passport or identity check required. There was completely free movement of labour and people and Irish citizens had full civil rights without surrendering their Irish nationality. You simply got a boat to England and registered with the Labour Exchange to get a National Insurance card and you were in. The currency was tied to sterling so there was no need to change money and British coins but not notes circulated freely in Ireland.
For most of its almost hundred-year existence in social and economic terms people had no difficulty whatever living with the Irish border. This situation was in Britain’s interest and has certainly been in Ireland's interest and still is - so why should the EU meddle - unless? The EU has effectively taken control of Anglo-Irish relations and will exercise this power in its advantage. Not to Ireland's interest, not to Britain's interest but to its interest.
What about truckloads goods pouring unregulated into the UK over an open border? Where is all this stuff going to go? Well it would be easier than landing the stuff on the Isle of Wight and just as pointless.
What about refugees and asylum seekers pouring into the UK over an open border? The border is open now so post Brexit the 1000’s of men camping out at Calais to get to the UK will head for Ireland and the open Irish border?
Consider this thought from history; 300 years ago an attempt to have Irish coins made in England caused riots in Dublin and London backed down.
Now the Irish national budget was submitted to the Bundestag Finance Committee before being presented to the Dail.
One of Britain's crimes 400 years ago was planting Scots and English in Ireland.
Now the EU directs it and other members must take quotas of refugees from any place it decides.
The border could only be closed with razor wire and landmines and that was NEVER an option so what is the EU playing at? They are playing the nationalist card demanding the impossible and they know it. Rights are irrelevant when you have power the EU has power to do pretty much what it likes regardless of any mere national interest and it does
People had no difficulty whatever living with the border? Really? That is delusional and also ignores the history of the NI from 1960's to late mid 1990's when thousands of people were killed over said border.
I thought my post set out the position over the entire hundred years fairly clearly explaining that from post-1969 to the 1990's were not normal times. As a schoolboy I remember living in Ireland in the 1950's when the IRA tried a cross-border campaign and both governments came down hard. Both introduced internment without trial locking up IRA activists for as long as necessary and as a result the campaign never really got off the ground and just petered out.
It is worth pointing out that in the 1950s the Irish government was composed of mostly recycled IRA men who knew how easy it was to destroy constitutional government because they had done it and they were not going to let it happen to them.
This changed in the late 1960's, when their sons took over and made the political mistake of thinking what worked in 1921, would work in 1969. That was truly delusional. Not only did leading Irish politicians not come down on the IRA they actually colluded with them and the British curse them knew and did nothing.
www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/garda%C3%AD-and-dublin-elite-colluded-with-ira-says-ex-insider-1.2025505
Well you're leaving out 30 yrs of killing that's a pretty sizeable chunk of time.There was collusion on both sides I'm afraid I mean the RUC were totally biased and as for the British Army. Let's not forget the main reason for the troubles in the first place, civil rights of nationalists being wholly ignored by the unionists of the day. It was a form of apartheid. Thankfully it's much better today thanks to the GFA and an open border as part of that. I just don't think a hard border will be tolerated.
I don't leave out 30 years of killing I say that if the politicians on both sides got their act together it was totally unnecessary.
Of course there was a kind of apartheid, but when Nelson's pillar was blown up in Dublin in 1966 the British Embassy warned London that the IRA was gearing up for a new campaign. As a consequence they began forcing through long overdue changes in Northern Ireland to pre-empt trouble. Unfortunately Dublin politicians smelled blood and as I said believed what worked in 1921, would work in 1969.
You have to pick up bits of information here and there to get the whole story. Mick Flynn is a son of a Mayo man and a Welsh girl and the most decorated soldier in the British army. His book "Mick Flynn Bullet Magnet" reveals that in the early 1970s patrols in Belfast had hand-held computers, giving them access to every possible detail of the IRA membership, including the furnishings of their houses. That they had this kind of information and did not act on it was because they had not the political will to do so and because as the much reviled Enoch Powell said publicly the British government and the IRA had the same long-term goal, withdrawal and the United Ireland.
British soldiers RUC men and civilians on both sides were sent to their deaths because they were politically expendable. The collusion between the Dublin elite and the IRA was common knowledge before the article I cited set it out in detail. Every military operation requires a secure base and the IRA were allowed that by Dublin from the 1960s onward. Did you know that the three IRA bombers shot in Gibraltar were not extradited to Britain because of legal errors on the extradition request? I believe the precise nature of the error was that the request did not give a postcode for the field in Oxfordshire where their weapons dump was located. How's that for collusion? When they were shot in Gibraltar the British government was effectively saying "If you want to play silly beggars by refusing to hand over bombers we will have to eliminate them in other ways".
I believe the late Charles Haughey, naturally the son of a 1920s IRA man introduced legal changes which made it much more difficult for IRA members to be extradited to the UK. But that doesn't count as collusion.
As too collusion between the RUC and loyalists, let me put you a proposition. You are an RUC man and you pull in a known loyalist extremist who has been targeting innocent Catholics. You in turn are being targeted by the IRA. So you say to the loyalist, "Why you killing poor so-and-so, he's never done any harm it's people like so-and-so who are the real danger. One you are protecting innocent Catholics and two, more importantly you are removing a threat to yourself about which you can do nothing for lack of evidence. That is of course collusion. It is also common sense. The real world is a cold and nasty place.
Well Charles Haughey was a Republican (and in hindsight a corrupt politician who not many have a good word to say about these days) and was jailed for gun running in the 60's so it shows at the very top there was no tolerance for IRA support. ROI was a fledgling democracy and didn't want to have anything to do with the IRA and most certainly didn't want any military engagement with Britain as it would have got it's ass handed to it in a bread basket. Nobody is denying the IRA had sympathisers in ROI particularly in the early days of the troubles however you will find that significantly reduced as time went on and the extent and nastiness of the actions by the IRA became more apparent. There was certainly no official sympathy given to the IRA from Dublin. In fact most people in ROI hated the violence because for many years it delegitimised Republicanism and many people stopped publicly celebrating legitimate Republican calendar events. For example the 1916 rising was not celebrated at all from 1966 onwards as it was seen as legitimising Sinn Fein/IRA at the time and Dublin wanted to have noting to do with that.
Yes the real world is a cold and nasty place. That's why any move to destabilise hard won peace in NI should not be tolerated and a hard border is such an example of a move that should not be tolerated. Collusion or no collusion. Even if there was no collusion on either side there would still be civil unrest and violence if a hard border was introduced and any opinion otherwise is just being delusional. The GFA must be adhered to until such time as something better replaces it and it's Britains duty not to neglect it.
Good reporting wherein the reporter did not put spin or his own opinion. Good man!