I was a Mazda service manager at a dealership back in the day, and the biggest problem we saw with the RX7's was that the owners babied them. They didn't run the engine at high enough RPM's to clear the carbon build up on the original 7 piece apex seals. When they got towed in all locked up, my head shop mechanic would break them loose with a wrench, get them started running really roughly, then literally put a brick on the gas pedal and go to lunch. They would blow huge clouds of smoke for a while, then start to smooth out, then gradually clean out and end up running great! I might have already sold the customer a new engine, only to find out the engine now ran just fine. Saved the owners a lot of money!
Water worked really good for breaking up the carbon. I had a 12A that was babied its whole life, and it was all sorts of carboned up, got a gallon of water, put a water injection jet on a hose, and held it at 4 grand spraying at 2 second bursts. I was amazed how much carbon literally came off of this engine. I stuck a camera in there and it was nearly spotless.
Wasn't the original maintenance recommendation for the older 12As were to rev it to the moon once in a while? I seem to recall an old 70's documentary talking about this. No wonder people loved the damn thing even during the Oil Crisis lol
Hey GR, when I read your comment I laughed. I had a '91 RX7 Convertible and I was careful to blow out the carbon every chance I could! That car might not have been the fastest top end car I ever owned (I think my 300ZX was faster) but I never had a car that was as quick. Punching it while entering a freeway onramp meant entering the gray area between exhilaration and soiling one's pants.
I worked for Mazda N.A. for over 14 years and assembled (by my calculations) about seven thousand rotary engines and assembled thousands of rotors and associated assemblies. This was over twenty five years ago and I'm very pleased to see that the rotary engine has advanced to this incredible engine. It appears that you have found solutions to the apex seal , side seals and the eccentric shaft. Three combustions in one revaluation instead of just one. Truly amazing. Congratulations. Now make it bigger. Thanx
The fact that that is a unique design I'm sure Mazda would be impressed but that type of motor would be better for some other application. It's just too small for an automobile.
I inherited a 1980 RX-7 with a rotary engine soon after starting college. I'd worked on tons of 60s and 70s cars at that point in my life, rebuilding about 30 engines. I had no idea what or how rotary engines worked so I ask my Math professor and he sent me directly to the Engineering department. I was lucky enough to talk to two professors who were also rotary engine owners and fans of the technology. After a few talks they both strongly suggested I switch my course of study from Math to Engineering and I did just that. I had an amazing career as a mechanical design engineer working for NASA, the DoD and other Aerospace firms across the country and around the world. I have the rotary engine to thank for all that.
@@WarpedYT bUt bUt bUt eLoN mUsK iS a GeNiUs. He'S tHe eNgiNeEr bEhiNd aLL tHe stUff sPacE x dOeS. LOL. Every normie that thinks Elon is some mastermind genius savant.
This technology is pure genius. What is takes to design a system like this is astounding. The criticality of the tolerances and the synchronization of everything to make this all work is beyond awesome. My hats off to all involved here. I have a very technical mind but it pales in comparison to those involved with the technolgy featured in this video.
I feel like it needs the explosive side of the chamber to be offset to redirect the energy of combustion better. Right now it seems to be partially fighting itself with every combustion cycle.
This demo was not a "powering itself demo" it was being turnes by the electric motor it was directly connected to and being fed combutionable fuels for visual stimulation only*
Wow, as an owner of several RX7s in my younger years, 79-82, first ones with dual points/condensers and a 4 barrel carb. what an awesome design with the intake in the shaft, this could be huge for the future designs. Drove my brother in laws RX8, unreal power
That was very commendable to give credit to the engineers at the end. I still feel pound-for-pound that this lightweight rotary engine can be used in many applications today, perhaps on motorbikes and gocarts.
@@nightmareinaction629 Try again - drones, APUs for military and potentially more. They have only put one on a gokart as a demo. Not on market yet, but easily upscaled.
Sort of yes, except that the Wankel housing really is peanut-shaped, meaning bigger at the ends than in the middle (it's technically a two-lobed epitrochoid), while this rotor is a simple oval (semi-circular ends connected by straight sides). Similarly, the Wankel rotor can be a simple Dorito-like triangle (although in practice the sides are usually circular arcs, which is a Reuleaux triangle, to increase the compression ratio), while this engine has a rounded three-lobed housing. They're related, but not the same shapes.
This is very very interesting. But, two things: piston top sealing (usually a great challenge) and valve timing (necessary to compensate for charge and velocity variations). A turbocharges may bring some benefits ...
Even if this doesn't prove to be revolutionary or anything like that, thoughtful, deliberate experimentation and transparent exposition of results can never be wasted effort. One can learn from experiments that go wrong almost as much as the ones that go right. Also, solutions that don't scale are still solutions one can build on in different ways.
@@siov4279 without those rich people playing with models you wouldn't even have any combustion engine in the first place. If you have to work 10h a day in a farm or in a mine, sure you're less likely to design a new type of engine or any invention. At some point you need to have someone ready to risk his money and/or time with a small chance of success.
@@siov4279 couldn't agree more boyo,,eight years and $400 million later, they unveil a 4hp bench top see through engine..... AMAZING!!!!! "It's like magic". magical they say,,,,,,like unicorns and pots o gold near rainbows. AMAZING!!!!!
As an engineer in my mid sixties and with thousands of deployed team designed and implemented products worldwide, I appreciate the recognition of the role the team has had. With one exception (Kobe, Japan) our team has never received recognition beyond a one-time casual verbal congratulations at the time of delivery although the efforts were always beyond role descriptions (in most cases, salary is just a byproduct of the passion the team members have invested, by far not reflecting their true engagement and the outcome value).
The big difference, is that your work enabled a company to trade profitably, and as such, you received a different form of recognition - renumeration. Its highly unlikely this team will make it that far (the design is has severe limitations to the point it is unlikely to even find a niche), so those kind words are especially valued.
After watching this I realized that the design of the rotor looks like the walls of a conventional rotary engine. It’s basically a Wankel rotary that’s inside out ?
Yup, I interviewed the inventors and they address that topic, he's a physicist and he says that Wankle knew about those shapes but he could not seal them properly for some reason, I'm putting those vids up on my other channel soon.
They're gonna come into work one morning and find Rob Dahm camped on their doorstep with a sign saying "I'm not leaving until you tell me EVERYTHING". :) Great video, and some really interesting development work by these guys. Talented engineers. 👍
I would LOVE to see a full size heavy duty (500+hp) diesel version of this engine. A typical diesel engine is already a simple engine and this one doesn't even have a cam shaft and valves to run! Only down side is lack of engine breaking in this configuration.
Of all the comments I've looked at, I haven't seen the simplest, most basic questions: What is the working displacement? What rpm range does it operate at? How much hp and torque does it make, and what is the powerband like?
"4hp" is stated though none of your other questions seem answered. The moving parts seem lightweight & moving with low acceleration compared with piston engines so I would expect very high RPMs to be possible, maybe painfully high pitches or even ultrasonic, especially if the exhausts are combined into one.
Geometrically :very high compression ratio, but achievable depends on the seal leakage. They were not able to obtain compression ratios to achieve compression ignition, For the demonstration the use methane and spark ignition. The real problem is the peripheral face seal at the corner designed to seal the front and rear walls. The problem Cooley had after he invented exactly this in 1903. Incidently, Cooley also had a two and a four lobe design, later expanded with 5, 6 and more lobes.
Erik, The mathematical treatment for the ideal trochoid is simple, as far as displacement is of interest, The rpm is limited by the structural design of the seal, where the inflection is hard to stiffen due to the centrifugal load. Power is proportional to the product of average torque and rpm. P = T × rpm × 2π/60. S I units
Thanks for the informative comment, it is nice to read something other than 'omg this is the best engine ever'... because it simply isn't. It's an interesting final year engineering project, and perhaps a nice gimmick to get some silly investors to part with their money. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of reciprocating ICEs and the design improvements & considerations of the past 50 years should be able to spot issues with this design that simply cannot be overcome. @@Arturo-lapaz
I rebuilt two Rotaries back in the Early 90's. The Front bearing of the eccentric shaft spun on me and shut the oil flow down to the shaft. Chewed it right up before I figured out what happened. I should have known when the Oil pressure shot thru the roof something was up. I'm glad to see that you guys didn't give up on this technology. I will however be interested in how you locate the spark plugs for easy access :)
Easy to access spark plugs. Simply remove the engine cowling, or include access plugs when building/modifying the aeroplane. You should see what is required to change the plugs in a v form transverse engine, with half the plugs facing the firewall. It requires a mechanic with special physical attributes, long skinny arms and small hands. Helps to be triple jointed.
this might actually be really bad, cause that face is going to heat up and expand more than the other if not properly cooled, and that can start a lot of problems. It's similar to what happens in rotary engines, were the chamber heats up too much and the engine doesn't run properly. It would be interesting how they manage to solve this problem with bigger engines (1 - 5 L, turbocharged hunderds of horsepower, etc)
@@xxoan.1613 I thought about that too, like, that face literally never gets a break and it appears to be made exactly the same as all the other faces. Which, like you said, could cause it to expand like crazy under high-stress conditions. Only thing that seems to be cooling it is the minor whiff of exhaust gasses.
@@man_on_wheelz Makes me wonder if that whole rotor is made out of inconel. But that area does have air flowing through it and you can see the cooling fin density is absurd on that part, so maybe steel is up to the job. Edit: actually at 3:29 you can see there is a TON of clearance. That rotor could literally be glowing red hot and still not have any issues. They just let the reverse-apex seals handle it by giving them plenty of travel I guess.
@@xxoan.1613 you do know that normal engine pistons do also expand and they have to take that into account. that's why in high horsepower engine you will hear a bit of piston slap when there cold. its also why you always let an engine warm up there made to be under load when the pistons are warm and expanded to the right size. ask any one who has done a forged piston swap you have to take in to account expiation. also if you look on the power face of the piston it has cooling fins.
I love the fact that work is still being done to perfect the rotary. The concept is great and the new rotor shape looks like it possibly gives a better area for the expanding gases to push against than in the Mazda 3 sided rotor. I just wonder about the side seals - as they would seem to have the same job to do as before on the Mazda rotary and also, the apex seals. It looks as if the biggest change has simply been to move the apex seals from the rotor to the rotor housing. Does that really make a big difference or is there more to it? This setup also looks to be using multiple sparks on each plug. Does that limit rpm a lot? One final point, the combustion is always against the same part of the rotor with the other end always being away from the burn. How is the heat controlled? (I know in a piston engine the burn is always against the same face of the piston but (a) there is only one face, (b) they have oil sprayed at the underside of that face to keep cool and (c) they don't have three burns per rpm, only one every two RPM (or every rpm in a 2 stroke). I'm hoping there are good answers to all of this because I'd love to see smooth rotary engines in cars again. My son drives an RX8 as his daily (and only) drive. I was involved in that choice, so this is not me raising questions to be anti rotary, I just want to understand better.
The apex seals are getting forced outward because of the RPMs...so much centrifugal force on the seals. These seals just sit still. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge rotary fan...I am just saying that there is a huge benefit to seals that are not being spun at 9k rpms.
@@Rozza43 I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain this is actually worse. For one if the outward force on the apex seals is so extreme there would be no need for springs? Two, this now has no way to clean carbon buildup from the housing, and instead cleans the rotor (arguably worse). And three you now need the rotor to fill the entire hole (as it always needs to touch the seal), thus introducing much more mass actually rotating. Hollowing the rotary is a neat idea here and would solve my last point however I'm entirely apprehensive how well this would work scaled up in terms of both heat and more rotors.
@@chronicnugget5595 Personally i think the apex seals need spring because it needs the seal all of the time there are probably not enough centrifugal force on the seals when the engine is just started and running at 1000rpm or sth like that
@@ZeldaIsMyLove no, the shape is an involution of the curves used in the wankel engine. I used the correct word. For example, a square will roll like a circle on a road made of matched involute curves.
The problems of the Mazda engine, are the problems inherent in the design of the Wankel rotary-piston engine. From what I can see in this liquid piston version, these problems have not been resolved. a)The intake air still gets superheated on its way into the combustion chamber, in fact even more so since it now travels through the inside of the piston. b)The path of the intake air is still very convoluted. c)Sealing the sides of the piston is still going to be an issue. d)Internal lubrication still requires injecting engine oil into the incoming air. e)Some combustion pressure pushes against the piston's direction of travel. f) The apex seals aren't gone, in this version they're fixed and the rotating piston scrubs against them. g)Finally, they may even have created a new long-term issue: uneven temperature gradients in the rotating piston with the part that admits the incoming air being considerably cooler than the rest. Like a Wankel, this looks enticing on paper, but loses its charm once you analyze the details. Still, I'm assuming that the people who designed it are smart and will be able to produce working versions for some specialized real-life applications and it does make for some great videos.
Thank you. The moment I started thinking about it, it started falling apart and you put it quite succinctly. Also, now you don’t scrape the whole chamber so carbon buildup on the combustion chamber will become a problem fairly fast
The main prob w Mazda were the Apex seals, when Suzuki gave up their Rotary venture, they sold their patent for their Apex seals, to Mazda, prob sovled.
@@Stasiek_Zabojca It's a rotary, just not a Wankel. The Wankel is really the only rotary design that has ever been mass produced, hence people assume all rotaries are Wankels, but there's other totally different rotary designs that have been less successful. This is sort of an inside-out Wankel.
It seems like a common thing. Never do I watch as many legaleagle videos as the few days before the exam.... and no, they don't help me. I'm not even from the US xD
It's not a new cycle, just another rotary piston engine configurations. It does intake, compression, power, and exhaust just like every other four-stroke engine (including the Wankel/Mazda rotary).
@@jfisk60903 Not necessarily, but they do have an uphill climb in this emissions-paranoid era. It is possible, with the right oil and a good catalyst, to meet the stringent (ridiculous) emissions requirements in place in many places today even with an oil-burning engine. It likely would be a somewhat expensive oil. However, in areas that test emissions, using the wrong oil will cost you big money as you'll ruin the catalyst and they'll make you replace it or stop driving the vehicle. All that translates into a vehicle which will be niche, but rotary engine vehicles have always been niche.
Rotary engines are just a poor engine design. Even in situations where reliability is not a factor traditional piston engines are superior. Look at drag cars. The engines in them are rebuilt after almost every run. They still choose to use traditional engines because they work better.
@@jfisk60903 this engine does not consume oil as part of combustion. It is metered directly to the sealing surface from the engine block, whereas a Wankel has to inject it into the combustion chamber or pre-mix with the fuel. They have oil consumption down to 4-stroke piston levels.
@@danunah7737 такое чувство, что вам как об стенку горох..... технология другая, ротор но "на изнанку"... Те прорывные роторы ходили 80 тысяч км.... этот обещает быть значительно долговечнее и плюс мульти топливо. Летом на дизеле гоняй, в центре города на водороде, зимой на бензине, в общем развлекайся как хочешь.
A very interesting concept, and great camera work showing the slowmo and inside. However this is just a wankel rotary with some topology changes. Does not avoid the problem of burning oil, and that rotor will be hard to cool and thus intake air is gonna be higher temperature reducing efficiency. Compression ratio can still be a problem, Apex seal problem is also not really fixed (but can potentially be serviced easier). Also torque might be even more of a problem than wankel, just look at that power stroke. Multi rotor design might be harder due to the shaft intake as well
@@larryvaughn5843 Surely you can say the same for a piston engine with ignition or even steam entry being in advance of reaching top dead centre. Edit: Interesting fact that some Great Western Railway locomotives from what I remember with Stephenson link valve settings had negative lead in full gear to help starting as if one of the pistons was in its initial steam entry it would fight the other cylinder or cylinders and try to go backwards. The lead would come in at shorter cut offs when it would be needed.
@@mwong000 Not at all. Realists see problems that optimists overlook or minimize. A wise optimist will carefully consider the realist's points, weigh the risks, and take appropriate actions. A foolish optimist will minimize the advice of a realist by accuse him of throwing rocks and not doing enough to solve hard problems. Foolish optimists are easy prey for scams. A fool and his money are soon parted.
@@warpedweirdo The world is full of losers who just say "This won't work!". I have met a lot of them in large corporations (GM, Ford, Sears, Kmart, Montgomery Ward etc) where the culture is stagnant, and people are rewarded more for the maintaining status quo than people who take risk and innovate. These people bore me to death because they never achieve anything. I am far more energized in people who say "This is the vision. These are the problems. Now let's sit down and figure out how to solve them." Liquid Piston is one of those companies. @warpedwierdo you can learn and grow or you can try to win this argument and continue being negative. If you choose the second, you will be no smarter 10 years from now than you are today. If you are wise, you will take a moment to think about this before trying to think of a clever retort.
@@mwong000 You judge the credibility of a sales pitch, or the viability of an idea, by how "energized" it makes you feel? ROTFLOL! The feeling of excitement, agreement, should be a strong signal to stop, take a step back, and very carefully reconsider, because the point at which you're most excited is the point at which you are most vulnerable.
Very valid observation, it’s interesting how they inverted the engine in a way, it’ll be interesting to see if they can handle boost, if they’ll make multiple rotor engines, if they’ll actually make a production triple or quad rotor I mean who wouldn’t love 12 spark plugs lol, I’m hoping we see four digit power numbers in the near future. If guys in their garage can do it then this team of engineers should be able to do it with ease
@@taylorpratt6287 I've been watching this for a while. I don't think the combustion chamber's overall shape can be altered. To scale up, they either have to make the whole rotor assembly larger or stack them.
@@hollismccray3297 What is wrong with the shape of the combustion chamber? It seems like the shape of the rotor is fixed but the housing has only three points of contact that are fixed. The rest seems to be flexible. From a purely combustion oriented perspective, the ideal combustion chamber is spherical, with the ignition source in the center. This achieves the shortest distance for flame travel in all directions. This combustion chamber seems to be like a quarter of a sphere. It seems like if they flipped another housing over and bolted them together they would have a hemisphere which would be the best you could do given the fixed shape of the rotor. I don't think they are giving up a lot as it is.
I remember back in the early 80s machining a glass cylinder head for a singly-cylinder piston engine so that we could fire a Laser Doppler Anemometer into the combustion chamber to 'measure' what was going on inside. This was before computer modelling etc. and it was the very early days of research into exactly what was happening inside a firing piston engine. We built a rig to traverse the 'laser measurement volume' in three dimensions across the combustion chamber to a few degrees before and after TDC. We fed the data into an ICL 2960 mainframe to process the data to give us a chance to 'visualise' the air-flows inside, before and after ignition of the fue;/air mixture.
Very good. There's still one issue with the rotory being the thermal losses. This engine is a great improvement on the Mazda technology, and the power to weight ratio will always be the key to its success.
If this is reliable, it could be revolutionary. Looks to me like heat dissipation, rotor durability, and crankshaft strength are the three biggest areas of potential failures.
Literally the same potential failures as a standard wankel. Mazda had issues with coolant and how to keep it out of the combustion areas and I don't see how this fixes that yet.
@@blakethornsbrough1528 With the rotor being hollow and constantly exchanging gases, this should pull some heat outta the rotor itself, the coolant would then only need to be run through the housing. In theory anyways. That's how it looks like it was designed to me.
@@CF_Sapper you a relative of the guy who designed the egr valve to be "cooled" by coolant? What happens in practice is you heat what you expect to cool. Especially in a 2 stroke style of engine like a rotary behaves.
@@blakethornsbrough1528 No I Married into the family 😂 I get what you're saying though. On a second watching they describe how they mix the exhaust with cooling air at a 10-1 cooling air to exhaust cooling the rotor from the inside.
@@CF_Sapper which is fine on a small scale. In application 2 rotor with forced induction there isn't enough airflow to maintain 10/1 at the rpm's a rotary runs especially during spirited driving. Is it potentially a better design than a wankel? Sure. It has a lot of questionable inner workings.
Guarantee you they are underpaid every one of them. Just saying. I've been on THAT end of a company that's doing great work and all profits seem to be designated to "the greater good" of the company, which is usually the owner's million dollar home, cars and toys. Stay strong guys!
I've been waiting for liquid piston to finally get to market. I've been checking in on their site on and off for years now. The reduction in weight is incredible. 1hp per pound is pretty incredible for a four stroke.
I autocrossed a ‘79 RX7 for several years in the 80s. SK side draft carbs and headers. I never had to go into the short block. Dead reliable and a lot of fun!
My late grandfather has 90+ patents on the Wankel motor, so i am really rooting for this take on it to be a success. Even though i am 100% for electric, there are still some great applications for this thing if they can pull it off... we need highly efficient ICEs if we're gonna keep using them.
how could you possibly be convinced of that being scientifically possible in any way? Combustion is the "C" in ICE... there are byproducts in any chemical combustion process. Electric motors use stored energy with little to no byproducts, and especially so if they are getting their charges from renewable energy sources. Gotta stop getting your "science" from fox news.
Hydrogen burns down to CO2 and H2O. Electric cars get charged from the grid…coal fired, gas fired, etc energy. Plus the grid can’t supply enough electricity for most people to drive electric cars. Lithium mining is highly destructive of good ole mother earth. Renewable energy sources are exceedingly expensive, unreliable, inefficient, and not ready for prime time. Internal combustion engines have a bright future ahead.
@@Cloydfunk and extracting oil from the ground and refining it while pumping pollutants and flames into the atmosphere 24/7 is not destructive? Come on, that is nonsense. The more we invest in renewables on a large scale, the less harm electricity will be doing. Combustion engines are a massive part of the reason we are in a climate crisis.
Can you answer with the lubrication thing, how oiling work done, because as you know the most common problem of the rotary engines is they burning oil with fuel so it's not good for emmisions etc. Will they fixed that problem? can we see the rotary engines legally on the roads again ? @Warped Perception
A billion dollars tech. Many variations can be developed, from hybrid, otto conf., bigger setup, multiple combinations etc. Congrats. Very satisfying to see a compact stable rpm.
I’d imagine this helps with the heating issue as well. Instead of just one spot where combustion occurs, there are three. Gives one spot a bit of time to cool
I see that the centre portion (piston?) only has one half that gets exposed to the power stroke. Hopefully heating up one side of the peanut shaped piston doesn't cause problems
@@mwong000 They usually do have cooling systems, unless it's in an aircraft, but the problem with standard rotary engines is, combustion is constantly occuring in one spot. There's no exhaust or intake stroke to cool the combustion chamber, just a spinning rotor. so the burning reactions happen back to back, causing excessive heating in one fixed spot of the engine. If you watch the high speed on this video, this engine has three distinct points where fuel is burned. Standard rotaries only have one. So the combustion chamber gets a chance to cool before firing again, because it alternates between three points. The heat of each power stroke is distributed.
@@Nikolai_The_Crazed Im still confused. ANY motor with high hp per cu in will, by definition, create a lot more heat, Right? That doesn't mean we should not try to design high power engines relative to weight or size. Agreed? The challenge is to get rid of the heat and/or use more heat resistant metals. There is A LOT of sq in that can be used for cooling (ie. the sides of the engine). Apparently Liquid Engine guys have a LOT of cooling fins at exactly the place I am describing. . And it is obviously working just fine using air cooling, albeit for just a few minutes of demo. Worst case, for continuous duty, use a water jacket, just like car engines. That may add a little more weight, but so what --- they are so much smaller and lighter that there is plenty of room before they approach conventional engines in size and weight. Therefore, being an engineer, but a novice in engine technology, I don't see why you think cooling is such a show stopper. The US Dept of Defense is funding Liquid Engine over many other contestants, so they must think the technology has promise.
@@mwong000 There is one half of the rotating "piston" that experiences three combustion events per revolution. That section of the piston will be difficult to cool and will just get extremely hot, potentially a failure point. In traditional Wankel, its the sides of the non moving "cylinders" that get heated, once per revolution. These were larger in surface area and accessible to the cooling fluid etc. LP has just moved the problem elsewhere on the structure and increased it 3x in frequency.
A 65hp, 65 lb engine would be excellent for ultralights. They didn’t really measure aspiration,ignition, and exhaust ancillaries in their weight calculation though, so it’s difficult to compare it to anything.
Huge potential in portable or mobile power tools, generators, vehicles, EV range extenders, military drones, scooters, chain saw, motorcycle, lawn mower, weed whacker, blowers, snow blowers, paramotors, small aircraft, passenger drones, delivery drones, backup power, biofuel- compost gas- wood gas/ synfuel / cogen systems
I got all excited and I almost forgot. The issue with rotaries wasn't necessarily the rotor or the housing, but the fact that you have to mix oil into the fuel to preserve the rotor seals. Read the brochure and it said 50:1 gas oil mix, IDK if rotaries have a future in auto as long as you have to burn oil.
Yeah it would have to be for small off road applications. At least it should burn it all unlike a 2 stroke piston engine, but i have a feeling emissions is this things holdback. Still very compact though.
The issue was still the rotor and more specifically it was its seals (the apex seals in particular.) The issue with having them in the rotor both made properly lubricating them difficult and also introduced a bunch of forces that seals won't typically see in any other engine. Moving them to the housing reduces the stresses and it makes delivering the proper amount of lubrication easier. You still have to meter some oil that ultimately makes its way into the combustion chamber, its now at amounts comparable to any 4 stroke engine.
@@travisbeagle5691 no way it’s anywere comparable to a 4 stroke, the big difference is that in a Rotary design, the Rotor has to move „through“ the Burning Camber, in a normal 4 stroke reciprocating engin the Burning Camber is „seald off“. And the Reason why Mazda Stopped using the Good old Wankel were stricter emission Regulatios, Not the notorious Apex seals. (Yes the Wankel is comming back in the new CX-30, but only as a Range extender in a hybrid Setup)
@@dominik230900 every 4 stroke engine still has to lubricate the piston and cylinder walls. That oil does make direct contact with the burning fuel. Because only a small bit of oil has to be metered in with this style rotary as compared to a Wankel, and only a small portion of it is exposed to fuel burn, oil consumption is comparable to 4 stroke engines. That doesn't mean it's quite as good, but it's comparable.
@@dominik230900 It was a few reasons and I was only answering the original comment which was about burning oil. The other two reasons were efficiency and emissions, both of which are fixed with this engine to the point they can be better than comparable piston engines.
to make it more than two you would probably have to have it in pairs on either side of a gear driven shaft, i don't think more than 2 in a row would be possible without a ton of engineering.
Another idea. Use a 3 rotor design with each rotor having 2 spark plugs and one water injection instead of a spark plug at one of the apexes. This would use some of the surplus heat on the rotor to expand water to steam and do work. It helps control the internal temperature of the engine without necessarily needing traditional water cooling. 3 rotors so that the water cycle can be on a different lobe for each rotor. 120, 240 and 360 degrees to maintain symmetry and balance. You really only have one air cooled combustion surface on the rotor so this may help with heat control extending the durability of the engine. This inside out Wankel is brilliant. Don't stop!
The seal problem was "solved" with the Wankel rotary. And by solved, I mean it's still the biggest mechanical headache. This engine is better because the main seals are stationary and easier to design. In the Wankel, those seals rotate in a crazy pattern. They suffer from both the rotational force plus some acceleration at odd angles. In the hybrid design, the main seals just sit there. They can be spring loaded and internally lubricated which makes the more reliable and gives them gentler failure modes. More likely to leak than shatter. However, my understanding was that the main seals weren't the big problem with the Wankel, the end seals were. The end seals on the Wankel are much larger and prone to leak. On the hybrid design, the end seals are larger still and their geometry is more complex. I expect they will continue to prove troublesome. But they did a fair job on the Wankel and we've had 40 more years to work the problem. I can't imagine it's a design breaking problem.
@@rylian21 Gasoline engines produce three types of bad emissions. These are carbon monoxide (CO), oxides of nitrogen (NOx), and hydrocarbon emissions (HC). Of these, NOx is hardest to deal with. The other two can be significantly reduced by a catalytic converter. A Wankel engine does have higher HC emissions. But it has lower NOx emissions. CO is about equal. Catalytic converters increase exhaust pressure leading to lower efficiency (as do mufflers, BTW). Leaking gaskets also lower efficiency, as does lower thermal efficiency in the Wankel. (The lower thermal temperature/ efficiency leads to the lower NOx emissions.) So overall, I would call it a wash as far as emissions go. Wankel's are slightly lower for the amount of fuel burned, but lower efficiency means more fuel burned overall. Wankels have a much better power to weight ratio, almost twice as high. This leads to lighter vehicles and thus better fuel efficiency in practice, but probably not enough to offset the lower fuel efficiency over piston engines, at least for ground applications. Power to weight ratio is more important in aircraft design. However, changes in the shape of the combustion chamber will likely solve some of this issue. Such changes have already been made to piston engines. There are a broad range of possible combustion chamber geometries available in this new hybrid design, so there are likely some advances in the future. The hybrid design reasonably claims to have a higher fuel efficiency on top of a better power to weight ratio. If this pans out in practice, it will be a far superior engine to traditional piston engines. Losing a little efficiency to a catalytic converter is a small price to pay for a 20% theoretical boost overall.
@@rylian21 along with horrible fuel economy and poor durability as I doubt very few of those you didn't say the RX8 make it to a hundred fifty thousand even with some engine repair along the way sometimes you come out to your car and if it didn't turn off just right in the right spot you couldn't even start your car that's so lame that's like mid-century carburetor type movie situation stuff nobody puts up with that no more
I had a 1974 RX4 Coupe as my adrenalin toy for when I wasn't busy racing outboard hydroplanes in Canada. After having two apex seal failures, I retired the car (it had also started to rust away) in 1980 and gave the engine to a racing buddy and usher at my wedding who had specialists in Toronto rebuild it. We then put it in his RX7, a tight fit as it was 25% bigger than that car's original mill. It went very, very fast... until it also popped another seal. I gave up playing with rotaries but became briefly interested again when OMC developed its racing outboard rotary engines. Again, too short life span, so I returned to internal reciprocating engines. Am delighted to see true believers have kept the faith.
This is so amazing to me! I had an old Mazda RX7 years ago, and really loved that car! This engine corrects all the flaws that was in that design it seems! Excited to see this continue to mature and grow into something great! 007
@@KandakovNS Я не инженер, но могу с уверенностью сказать что это проблемный двигатель. 1) сгорание происходит все время с одной стороны ротора, а при такой конструкции это локальный перегрев, и уже не блока от которого можно хорошо отводить тепло. 2) выпуск через тот же ротор, а это еще плюс к перегреву, выхлоп очень горячий бывает. 3)вытекает из первых двух: если одна часть горячая, вторая холодная, то и зазоры должны быть немалые, а это лишний расход топлива и потеря мощности. 4)Проблемы со смазкой присущие всем роторам, а соответственно большой расход масла. 5)Сложность (хотя не столько сложность, сколько необычность) конструкции относительно поршневых двигателей, к которым все привыкли. Далеко не каждый автомеханик сможет понять что случилось, особенно в полевых условиях. и еще множество множество всего, что я упустил/не заметил/не знал
I was a lead Volvo dealer Service Advisor…. We called the “run it at high rpm’s until it stops smoking .. an “Italian Tune Up”! Worked great on over babied engines..especially the diesels….
The only thing that would concern me with the intake and exhaust design is if scaled up into a car engine would the hollow eccentric shaft be able to handle high power forced induction applications.
I worked at Mazda North America for 15 years rebuilding the rotary engines. The Eccentric shaft was the most difficult thing for them to make. I don't believe a hollow shaft could hold up to fourth in the engine.
If you look closely, you can see the seals on the walls of the engine moving up and down like they're on a spring. That's such a smart way to reduce the wear, and make room for tolerances from these "inverted apex seals." What a creative engine design all around. Mazda needs to send a rep down there and pay these fellas some money for their patent. I'd love to see this applied to a car some day!
@@mareksumguy1887 Yeah, and? Looks comparable to diesel. The only problem is distribution of pressure on the rotor, which actually causes some loss if efficiency.
@@mattyceks380 true, but getting the heat out could be a problem. With the additional heat, I wonder how much the rotor would grow and possibly decrease clearance to the point of locking the rotor and housing together? With only one face of the rotor only being the hot side, the potential is there for uneven heating and therefore warping of the rotor if you push it too hard, which, adding forced induction would be really easy to do...
@@kleetus92 well keeping bigger clearances shouldn't be too bad for the engines if the (apex?) seals can slide in and out... I agree with the direct injection, the hemisphericalish chamber shape is great, but there still are long, thin arms which will lead to incomplete/too cold combustion. A nomal piston is oil cooled from the bottom, can transfer heat to the cylinder wall and gets cooled with cold, uncompressed intake mixture inbetwen cycles. But the combustion face has pretty much no cooling exept air from the back side, that would have me very concerned about pre ignition and knock. Also no crankcase lubrication or am I missing something?
I'd wonder if the traditional methods of increasing power would work as well, based on this being a hybrid of several other cycles. It's a very interesting TS diagram for sure. I suppose increasing air/fuel density should work no matter what, but it may not yield quite the expected increase in power. Or maybe more, who knows. But I bet they're looking at it!!!
@@mattyceks380 I looked into the company more, and it's unfortunately really disappointing. Their 750cc X4 motor only makes 40 horsepower and only revs to 6000 RPM. To make matters worse - That's with a turbocharger, meaning even a Geo Metro engine is better (993cc, 55 horsepower and revs to 6500 RPM). Also, they measure their engines without manifolds, fuel, or even ignition systems. So the advertised weight isn't even the weight of a running engine. That means that the power to weight ratio is actually horrendous and they're just really good at marketing.
You moved the ‘apex’ seals from the spinning piece to the stationary piece. Very cool, and probably provides an engine that’ll last longer than 100k miles, but still...
Even powering some cool & fast Quadmobiles would be great because of the lighter weight of your rotary design plus seems it could be economic fuel saving meaning you could go alot further with one go full fill up
but mostly...useless junk. as all rotary engines are. the sealing surfaces in this engine are no more desirable than in any other wenkel. They may not break, but they'll wear out just as fast. The main problem with all rotary ICE's. No way to properly lubricate it.
oliver durgen I have no experience owning a Wankel. I am a licensed heavy duty mechanic so I’m curious how these would do with the natural lubricity of diesel? What kind of compression ratios can these handle?
@@14goldmedals how do you separate the oil system from the combustion event? in a piston engine, the piston does this job, as well as lubricating itself by collecting oil from the sump and distributing it on the cylinder walls. In a Wenkel, there is no way to separate the lubrication from the combustion chamber. The oil is constantly burning off, collecting debris/ash, and/or just going right out the exhaust as unburned hydrocarbons. Sort of like a 2-stroke. Life isn't some big conspiracy, like many would have you to believe. Rotary engines suck, and that is only one of the many reason why. Least of not is performance, which outside of very small sportscars, isn't very impressive, from a power density or fuel efficiency standpoint. Torque is the ability to preform work. Per liter of fuel, rotory engines make less torque than just about any ICE I can think of, regardless of size or purpose. The best attributes of the rotary engine are it's compactness, and minimal vibration. This has uses in packaging. But outside of some bizarre form factor, there are much better alternatives to rotary engines, especially now.
1% part each. The rest imagination. This engine has been around a while and still no application and no available engine. Cool demonstration, now let's see the math from actual testing.
I think Rob Dahm would be someone willing to test bed a larger version in one of his cars. He has 2/3/4 and is building a 6 rotor and loves the engineering side of this kind of thing.
Wow, this is amazing, its like the rotor and housing are switched! Its something you can see often in electric engines, but figuring this out for rotary engines is a beautifull thing
Interesting design which is good because it gets rid of the unequal heat distribution of the Mazda Felix Wankel design but this design probably still suffers from less torque than a typical piston engine and probably suffers even worse from excessive surface to volume ratio which in any case could be circumvented with direct injection if you go to that route.
Been working on rotaries for long time. The wankel sealing issue was resolved by cutting 3 mm apex seals. Additionally by opening the intake and exhaust ports relieved a lot of the other issues.. I have a 13B running 550 HP with a gt 45 turbo and it is extremely reliable. ANother wanel issue was heat buildup on the rotor and we found by lightening the rotor made it worse. Running 2 stroke as a premix reduce the carbo buildup and lowered the overheating Be nice to see what happens with your design under high HP and heat/carbon buildup.
Thanks for that info, very insightful. Does it start well in the cold? Aside from seals and cooling, what about the emissions due to the oil being burned? How do you deal with that?
With the seals being stationary a small amount of oil could be metered into the seal slots in the housing with a variable displacement pump that could vary the oil delivery according to engine speed and load. In the developmental stage the oil is probably mixed with the fuel as is done with small 2 stroke engines.
This is amazing. A new development like this in rotary engines have been a long time coming. I wonder what the power/torque curves look like, how it responds to porting, and whether it likes turbocharging or supercharging.
According to some research they published the engine doesn't really like turbocharging, because they over expand the exhaust stroke, which increases efficiency, but produces less exhaust pressure, thus makes a turbo less effective.
@@gregkramer5588 From what I've seen, the power almost doesn't scale at all. The 70cc X Mini engine shown in the video makes 3.5 horsepower while weighing more than 4 pounds (they just weigh the engine block and rotor). Their 750cc model should theoretically make more than 10.7x as much power, if it actually scaled. Turns out, it actually does make than 10.7x the power of the X Mini - with a help of a turbocharger, meaning the engine weighs even more than they market, while being even less inefficient.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 That is what I was thinking also. The rotor looks heavy and the internal intake port both seem like they would not scale well.
@@joeKisonue But will only work for low power applications since it does not scale was my point. These applications seem to all be turning to eclectic. Sad to say but the window is closing for this to go anywhere.
Are they thinking of offering a larger 2, or 3 rotor version for cars. I'm sure plenty of rx7 and rx8 owners would love to swap a newer more efficient rotary into their cars instead of an LS.
Well, right now they aren't selling ANY engines of this type. This is not new. It's been around for quite a while, going back to 04. It was demonstrated in 2014. Still nothing.
So basically, it's a single cylinder engine that acts and functions as an inline-3? Sounds like a wonderful concept! Imagine the power-to-weight efficiency in motorcycles, for example.
As a machinist it's because most of them just want to go straight into cad/design and have no experience, or business, near a machining center. I can't tell you how many times I've had to send the drawings back because of a dumb ass.
@@THESLlCK no they don't haha, either way, this is very cool. but impractical its just a show and tell piece it will never be as reliable, cheap nor powerful as a basic 2 stroke engine and the intake thru crank design limits its ability to be made multi rotor and limits porting to make more power. its a dud
@@delta7743 I imagine that as they make these engines larger, they will probably increase the size of the intake port to match the engine size. Just because the engine design means that backyard engineers can't bore out the intake port doesn't make the engine a dud. I'm not saying that there aren't other issues with the design that they have to work out, but your complaint about not being able to port the engine? Build your own if you want to have an oversized intake. edit: I totally agree with you about the reliability and price, you can't beat a 2-stroke, no matter how much you abuse it.
Back in the sixties, a friend of mine had a small Mazda with a rotary engine. He allowed me to drive it, and I was absolutely amazed with the power of that small engine. It would accelerate dangeously fast!
I was a Mazda service manager at a dealership back in the day, and the biggest problem we saw with the RX7's was that the owners babied them. They didn't run the engine at high enough RPM's to clear the carbon build up on the original 7 piece apex seals. When they got towed in all locked up, my head shop mechanic would break them loose with a wrench, get them started running really roughly, then literally put a brick on the gas pedal and go to lunch. They would blow huge clouds of smoke for a while, then start to smooth out, then gradually clean out and end up running great! I might have already sold the customer a new engine, only to find out the engine now ran just fine. Saved the owners a lot of money!
Water worked really good for breaking up the carbon. I had a 12A that was babied its whole life, and it was all sorts of carboned up, got a gallon of water, put a water injection jet on a hose, and held it at 4 grand spraying at 2 second bursts. I was amazed how much carbon literally came off of this engine. I stuck a camera in there and it was nearly spotless.
Wasn't the original maintenance recommendation for the older 12As were to rev it to the moon once in a while? I seem to recall an old 70's documentary talking about this. No wonder people loved the damn thing even during the Oil Crisis lol
Babied Jaguar twin cam engines (1960's) liked a good high rev full power hill climb every now and again to get rid of the cobwebs.
Hey GR, when I read your comment I laughed. I had a '91 RX7 Convertible and I was careful to blow out the carbon every chance I could! That car might not have been the fastest top end car I ever owned (I think my 300ZX was faster) but I never had a car that was as quick. Punching it while entering a freeway onramp meant entering the gray area between exhilaration and soiling one's pants.
You'll be glad to hear that I was frequently running my first gen Rx7 near redline.
I worked for Mazda N.A. for over 14 years and assembled (by my calculations) about seven thousand rotary engines and assembled thousands of rotors and associated assemblies. This was over twenty five years ago and I'm very pleased to see that the rotary engine has advanced to this incredible engine. It appears that you have found solutions to the apex seal , side seals and the eccentric shaft. Three combustions in one revaluation instead of just one. Truly amazing. Congratulations. Now make it bigger. Thanx
I kept getting ads looking for investors from these guys. The ads said they're developing a version to compete with the engines used in OTR trucks
Keith romig how well woud an egine like this go if mazda disided to go with an engine disighn like this
The fact that that is a unique design I'm sure Mazda would be impressed but that type of motor would be better for some other application. It's just too small for an automobile.
I may need to get ahold of you for my fc engine rebuild
@@keithromig957 I see no reason it can’t be scaled up to car size ?
I inherited a 1980 RX-7 with a rotary engine soon after starting college. I'd worked on tons of 60s and 70s cars at that point in my life, rebuilding about 30 engines. I had no idea what or how rotary engines worked so I ask my Math professor and he sent me directly to the Engineering department. I was lucky enough to talk to two professors who were also rotary engine owners and fans of the technology. After a few talks they both strongly suggested I switch my course of study from Math to Engineering and I did just that. I had an amazing career as a mechanical design engineer working for NASA, the DoD and other Aerospace firms across the country and around the world. I have the rotary engine to thank for all that.
Thanks for sharing that and what a lovely story.
What a lovely story
@@rozanpratama5536 m9o.9.9ko9k
I was thinking about going into mechanical engineering.
The wankel rotary blew my mind when I first learned of it. It seemed like alien technology to me because I am of slightly below average intelligence.
Incredible and amazing. Took my breath away with this. I always thought someone would find a way and have waited 58 years for this.
-----> I hope You survived ....-------------------------> ... " took my breath away ...." - mine NOT !!!
11 bucks per share. Came here after seeing an investment ad lol
The fact that you gave credit to the engineers at the last was a great gesture man ❤️
Thanks! Engineers never get enough credit, have you ever heard of SpaceX or Tesla? Let's not forget about Apple...lol.
Engineer gaming
@@WarpedYT bUt bUt bUt eLoN mUsK iS a GeNiUs. He'S tHe eNgiNeEr bEhiNd aLL tHe stUff sPacE x dOeS. LOL. Every normie that thinks Elon is some mastermind genius savant.
@@WarpedYT Yeah its really sad hardly no one knows the true geniuses behind the things coming into the market past and present.
Gracious, unlike Elon Musk.
I am here from your community post. The audio and video quality are unbelievable for a 51 year old video.
Lol..... Ahead of it's time apparently.
LOL so the chamber looks like the rotor and the rotor looks like a chamber, that's CRAZY cool!!
Yeah like inside out
This is exactly what I thought too! What a way to think outside the box and look at things from a different perspective lol
This technology is pure genius. What is takes to design a system like this is astounding. The criticality of the tolerances and the synchronization of everything to make this all work is beyond awesome. My hats off to all involved here. I have a very technical mind but it pales in comparison to those involved with the technolgy featured in this video.
You'd be surprised how easy it is
I've always loved the way the rotary engine worked, it's just so cool. I hope these guys are able to continue developing this cool technology
I feel like it needs the explosive side of the chamber to be offset to redirect the energy of combustion better.
Right now it seems to be partially fighting itself with every combustion cycle.
@@ralphwarom2514 very tru. It’s spending a good amount of energy pushing the roter toward the center instead of turning it
Invented in 1903 by Cooley, not very honest claiming his invention as new.
This demo was not a "powering itself demo" it was being turnes by the electric motor it was directly connected to and being fed combutionable fuels for visual stimulation only*
Wow, as an owner of several RX7s in my younger years, 79-82, first ones with dual points/condensers and a 4 barrel carb. what an awesome design with the intake in the shaft, this could be huge for the future designs. Drove my brother in laws RX8, unreal power
these dudes really threw away the whole book and started from scratch, this is INSANE
Looks like they turned a rotary engine inside out.
Exactly what they did.
@@JesusisJesus geometry is a wonderful thing
Welcome to the new age. Salud.
@@fishglowinthedark5769 exactly, who knew someone would reinvent the Rotary Engine in the 2000's.
That was very commendable to give credit to the engineers at the end. I still feel pound-for-pound that this lightweight rotary engine can be used in many applications today, perhaps on motorbikes and gocarts.
There actually was a motorcycle that had a rotary. I don't remember the name off the top of my head
@@davidpoole7098 A Suzuki RE5, but it was very short lived though. I have seen them in person.
@@mustang32758 I have a 75 RE5, I was building a bike t9 run on the Bonneville salt 🧂 Flatts with a goal of 200mph..from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸 🤠
@@davidpoole7098 At one time there was a chainsaw that had a rotary engine. IIRC it was run in two-cycle mode, and was offered by Husqvarna.
@@davidpoole7098 a suzuki re5 and a Norton
Awesome!!! Hoping to see more videos on this!
buy one and run it with bacon grease for oil lol
yep same :D
Were gunna test that
I was waiting for you this time...lol, this engine seemed like something you would like, bacon Grease liquid Piston Engine sounds awesome !.
Белых все меньше и меньше
Im pretty sure this is a revolution in the rotary engine world, it would be cool to see a bigger version inside a car. Great job!
My guess this is for smaller application lawnmowers weedwackers maybe Go-Karts
@@nightmareinaction629 Try again - drones, APUs for military and potentially more. They have only put one on a gokart as a demo. Not on market yet, but easily upscaled.
@@FukU2222 yeah would love to see this upscale and used
How about a rx-9🌚
@@racingjets1 🌚
Wankel: Doritos inside peanut
Liquid Piston: Peanut inside Doritos
you make a good point. that's really interesting the geometry is inverted
Sort of yes, except that the Wankel housing really is peanut-shaped, meaning bigger at the ends than in the middle (it's technically a two-lobed epitrochoid), while this rotor is a simple oval (semi-circular ends connected by straight sides). Similarly, the Wankel rotor can be a simple Dorito-like triangle (although in practice the sides are usually circular arcs, which is a Reuleaux triangle, to increase the compression ratio), while this engine has a rounded three-lobed housing. They're related, but not the same shapes.
Your comment makes me hungry
Dorito inside potatoe
Potatoe inside Dorito
thanks now i finally understad the stuf
These engines are very exciting. Not just for solving the seal issues, but because the geometry makes high compressions possible.
This is very very interesting. But, two things: piston top sealing (usually a great challenge) and valve timing (necessary to compensate for charge and velocity variations). A turbocharges may bring some benefits ...
@@vabels54 what the fuck are you talking about? This engine has neither piston nor valve.
If they are able to get high compression, would it be able to run on diesel?
@@hexvoodoo2797 Yeah, absolutely. He mentions it in the video.
Even if this doesn't prove to be revolutionary or anything like that, thoughtful, deliberate experimentation and transparent exposition of results can never be wasted effort. One can learn from experiments that go wrong almost as much as the ones that go right. Also, solutions that don't scale are still solutions one can build on in different ways.
just rich people playing with models feeling smarter.
@@siov4279 without those rich people playing with models you wouldn't even have any combustion engine in the first place. If you have to work 10h a day in a farm or in a mine, sure you're less likely to design a new type of engine or any invention. At some point you need to have someone ready to risk his money and/or time with a small chance of success.
@@geemy9675 Burn Steve
@@siov4279 rich people? Did you see them?
@@siov4279 couldn't agree more boyo,,eight years and
$400 million later, they unveil a 4hp bench top see through engine.....
AMAZING!!!!! "It's like magic". magical they say,,,,,,like unicorns and pots o gold near rainbows. AMAZING!!!!!
No more doritos rotor, and welcome the new pringles rotor
Reject dorito, embrace pringle
NOW WE HAVE A BEANtm ROTOR!!!!
dorito is now a pringle
Im now going to watch a moive woth prongles lol
Mang Ade, did u gor sumthin bout a rotor
FIrstly we had a dorito spin inside an oval...Now we have an oval spin inside a dorito. Thats great!!!
*Uno reverse card*
Onu
Wankel designed his engine back asswards.
As an engineer in my mid sixties and with thousands of deployed team designed and implemented products worldwide, I appreciate the recognition of the role the team has had. With one exception (Kobe, Japan) our team has never received recognition beyond a one-time casual verbal congratulations at the time of delivery although the efforts were always beyond role descriptions (in most cases, salary is just a byproduct of the passion the team members have invested, by far not reflecting their true engagement and the outcome value).
The big difference, is that your work enabled a company to trade profitably, and as such, you received a different form of recognition - renumeration. Its highly unlikely this team will make it that far (the design is has severe limitations to the point it is unlikely to even find a niche), so those kind words are especially valued.
After watching this I realized that the design of the rotor looks like the walls of a conventional rotary engine. It’s basically a Wankel rotary that’s inside out ?
Yup, I interviewed the inventors and they address that topic, he's a physicist and he says that Wankle knew about those shapes but he could not seal them properly for some reason, I'm putting those vids up on my other channel soon.
I'm thinking that the vibration of the engine will become a problem unless they find a way to compensate it.
@@dingdong2103 just add more rotors lol
there are many additional ways to cancel out vibrations as well
I had that same thought too. The Wankel rotor shape is now the housing and the Wankel housing shape is now the rotor!
They're gonna come into work one morning and find Rob Dahm camped on their doorstep with a sign saying "I'm not leaving until you tell me EVERYTHING". :)
Great video, and some really interesting development work by these guys. Talented engineers. 👍
He'll buy 3 of those and make a LP9 rotor! Lol
Better off going to mech tech college in Puerto Rico . They really know about rotarys
@@Toxic88088 He just better not ship them through UPS. LOL
@@dirtyd2316 hahaha
I think the crank would fail.
"propane is lame!"
*hank hill materializes to kick your ass*
Hahaha!!
Hank Hill🤣🤣👌🏼
He's going to spank him with some propane accessories.
We all heard that in Hank Hill's voice.
Honestly we all needed it!
@@Highway_Chronicles *Pro pain
I would LOVE to see a full size heavy duty (500+hp) diesel version of this engine.
A typical diesel engine is already a simple engine and this one doesn't even have a cam shaft and valves to run! Only down side is lack of engine breaking in this configuration.
You and Integza both released a rotary engine video on the same day. . . Who do we have to thank for these gifts?
My guess is the rotary club, aka the mazda mafia
Now this is not just educational but also extremely therapeutic and relaxing
I love there's suddenly 3 rotary engine themed videos in like 1 week. I would not mind a few more as well.
Of all the comments I've looked at, I haven't seen the simplest, most basic questions: What is the working displacement? What rpm range does it operate at? How much hp and torque does it make, and what is the powerband like?
"4hp" is stated though none of your other questions seem answered.
The moving parts seem lightweight & moving with low acceleration compared with piston engines so I would expect very high RPMs to be possible, maybe painfully high pitches or even ultrasonic, especially if the exhausts are combined into one.
Geometrically :very high compression ratio, but achievable depends on the seal leakage. They were not able to obtain compression ratios to achieve compression ignition, For the demonstration the use methane and spark ignition.
The real problem is the peripheral face seal at the corner designed to seal the front and rear walls.
The problem Cooley had after he invented exactly this in 1903.
Incidently, Cooley also had a two and a four lobe design, later expanded with 5, 6 and more lobes.
Erik, The mathematical treatment for the ideal trochoid is simple, as far as displacement is of interest, The rpm is limited by the structural design of the seal, where the inflection is hard to stiffen due to the centrifugal load.
Power is proportional to the product of average torque and rpm.
P = T × rpm × 2π/60. S I units
Thanks for the informative comment, it is nice to read something other than 'omg this is the best engine ever'... because it simply isn't. It's an interesting final year engineering project, and perhaps a nice gimmick to get some silly investors to part with their money. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of reciprocating ICEs and the design improvements & considerations of the past 50 years should be able to spot issues with this design that simply cannot be overcome. @@Arturo-lapaz
I rebuilt two Rotaries back in the Early 90's. The Front bearing of the eccentric shaft spun on me and shut the oil flow down to the shaft. Chewed it right up before I figured out what happened. I should have known when the Oil pressure shot thru the roof something was up. I'm glad to see that you guys didn't give up on this technology. I will however be interested in how you locate the spark plugs for easy access :)
Easy to access spark plugs. Simply remove the engine cowling, or include access plugs when building/modifying the aeroplane. You should see what is required to change the plugs in a v form transverse engine, with half the plugs facing the firewall. It requires a mechanic with special physical attributes, long skinny arms and small hands. Helps to be triple jointed.
Ayinu🤣
you can see the spark plugs in the video
I love how the only thing I can imagine in my head is the power side of the piston being like " Fuck! Everywhere I go they're exploding in my face!"
this might actually be really bad, cause that face is going to heat up and expand more than the other if not properly cooled, and that can start a lot of problems. It's similar to what happens in rotary engines, were the chamber heats up too much and the engine doesn't run properly. It would be interesting how they manage to solve this problem with bigger engines (1 - 5 L, turbocharged hunderds of horsepower, etc)
@@xxoan.1613 I thought about that too, like, that face literally never gets a break and it appears to be made exactly the same as all the other faces. Which, like you said, could cause it to expand like crazy under high-stress conditions. Only thing that seems to be cooling it is the minor whiff of exhaust gasses.
@@man_on_wheelz
Makes me wonder if that whole rotor is made out of inconel.
But that area does have air flowing through it and you can see the cooling fin density is absurd on that part, so maybe steel is up to the job.
Edit: actually at 3:29 you can see there is a TON of clearance. That rotor could literally be glowing red hot and still not have any issues. They just let the reverse-apex seals handle it by giving them plenty of travel I guess.
@@xxoan.1613 you do know that normal engine pistons do also expand and they have to take that into account. that's why in high horsepower engine you will hear a bit of piston slap when there cold. its also why you always let an engine warm up there made to be under load when the pistons are warm and expanded to the right size. ask any one who has done a forged piston swap you have to take in to account expiation. also if you look on the power face of the piston it has cooling fins.
@@phalanx3803 u do realise that one half of the rotor is eating every explosion and the other side isnt
As an engineer, really appreciate the shout out at the end. Good stuff all around!
Thanks! Hopefully you don't work for Tesla or space X because we all know that Elon does ALL the engineering in those companies...hahah
I love the fact that work is still being done to perfect the rotary. The concept is great and the new rotor shape looks like it possibly gives a better area for the expanding gases to push against than in the Mazda 3 sided rotor. I just wonder about the side seals - as they would seem to have the same job to do as before on the Mazda rotary and also, the apex seals. It looks as if the biggest change has simply been to move the apex seals from the rotor to the rotor housing. Does that really make a big difference or is there more to it? This setup also looks to be using multiple sparks on each plug. Does that limit rpm a lot? One final point, the combustion is always against the same part of the rotor with the other end always being away from the burn. How is the heat controlled? (I know in a piston engine the burn is always against the same face of the piston but (a) there is only one face, (b) they have oil sprayed at the underside of that face to keep cool and (c) they don't have three burns per rpm, only one every two RPM (or every rpm in a 2 stroke). I'm hoping there are good answers to all of this because I'd love to see smooth rotary engines in cars again. My son drives an RX8 as his daily (and only) drive. I was involved in that choice, so this is not me raising questions to be anti rotary, I just want to understand better.
The apex seals are getting forced outward because of the RPMs...so much centrifugal force on the seals. These seals just sit still.
Don't get me wrong, I am a huge rotary fan...I am just saying that there is a huge benefit to seals that are not being spun at 9k rpms.
@@Rozza43 I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain this is actually worse. For one if the outward force on the apex seals is so extreme there would be no need for springs? Two, this now has no way to clean carbon buildup from the housing, and instead cleans the rotor (arguably worse). And three you now need the rotor to fill the entire hole (as it always needs to touch the seal), thus introducing much more mass actually rotating. Hollowing the rotary is a neat idea here and would solve my last point however I'm entirely apprehensive how well this would work scaled up in terms of both heat and more rotors.
(
@@chronicnugget5595 Personally i think the apex seals need spring because it needs the seal all of the time
there are probably not enough centrifugal force on the seals when the engine is just started and running at 1000rpm or sth like that
Petrol-engine ignition systems, at least since Kettering (points, condenser & coil) have always produced multiple sparks.
They involuted the entire design! That's frickin genius!
You mean inverted it. Haha
@@ZeldaIsMyLove no, the shape is an involution of the curves used in the wankel engine. I used the correct word.
For example, a square will roll like a circle on a road made of matched involute curves.
I just wished a different company did it; or that they didn't patent the designs.
@@Unmannedair but that's literally what the original wenkel engine did too... this is an inversion of the wenkel.
google Cooley engine from 19th century
The problems of the Mazda engine, are the problems inherent in the design of the Wankel rotary-piston engine. From what I can see in this liquid piston version, these problems have not been resolved. a)The intake air still gets superheated on its way into the combustion chamber, in fact even more so since it now travels through the inside of the piston. b)The path of the intake air is still very convoluted. c)Sealing the sides of the piston is still going to be an issue. d)Internal lubrication still requires injecting engine oil into the incoming air. e)Some combustion pressure pushes against the piston's direction of travel. f) The apex seals aren't gone, in this version they're fixed and the rotating piston scrubs against them. g)Finally, they may even have created a new long-term issue: uneven temperature gradients in the rotating piston with the part that admits the incoming air being considerably cooler than the rest. Like a Wankel, this looks enticing on paper, but loses its charm once you analyze the details. Still, I'm assuming that the people who designed it are smart and will be able to produce working versions for some specialized real-life applications and it does make for some great videos.
Wow I was just thinking some of these issues then I saw your post, you've put more thought into it than I could. Good work!
Thank you. The moment I started thinking about it, it started falling apart and you put it quite succinctly.
Also, now you don’t scrape the whole chamber so carbon buildup on the combustion chamber will become a problem fairly fast
I agree this poses various engineering problems that will inhibit and cause it to be phased out the same way Mazda's wankels were as well.
@@crashTestGuru Very good point.
The main prob w Mazda were the Apex seals, when Suzuki gave up their Rotary venture, they sold their patent for their Apex seals, to Mazda, prob sovled.
Finally a rotary back on the scene
It's not really a rotary anymore :)
@@Stasiek_Zabojca its literally still a rotary engine. The shape of the rotor is just different.
@@Stasiek_Zabojca It's a rotary, just not a Wankel. The Wankel is really the only rotary design that has ever been mass produced, hence people assume all rotaries are Wankels, but there's other totally different rotary designs that have been less successful. This is sort of an inside-out Wankel.
Excited to see where the R&D takes this!
Is it ironic that I'm watching this when I should be studying for my engineering exams?
Just passed mine you should be ok lol
It seems like a common thing. Never do I watch as many legaleagle videos as the few days before the exam.... and no, they don't help me. I'm not even from the US xD
Imagine studying for your engineering exams and putting back the engine on your rx7 and seeing this
Trust me, you will learn more here
@@johannesmajamaki2626 finland?
Holy shit. This is genius. New cycle, new shape. On probably the most elegant form of IC Engine.
It's not a new cycle, just another rotary piston engine configurations. It does intake, compression, power, and exhaust just like every other four-stroke engine (including the Wankel/Mazda rotary).
Fun fact: Everyone wanted mazda to improve rotary, not kill them.
Engines that consume oil as part of the combustion process are doomed from the get go. This engine is DOA.....
@@jfisk60903 Not necessarily, but they do have an uphill climb in this emissions-paranoid era. It is possible, with the right oil and a good catalyst, to meet the stringent (ridiculous) emissions requirements in place in many places today even with an oil-burning engine. It likely would be a somewhat expensive oil. However, in areas that test emissions, using the wrong oil will cost you big money as you'll ruin the catalyst and they'll make you replace it or stop driving the vehicle. All that translates into a vehicle which will be niche, but rotary engine vehicles have always been niche.
Rotary engines are just a poor engine design. Even in situations where reliability is not a factor traditional piston engines are superior. Look at drag cars. The engines in them are rebuilt after almost every run. They still choose to use traditional engines because they work better.
They're bringing them back as a range extender for the mx30 ev
@@jfisk60903 this engine does not consume oil as part of combustion. It is metered directly to the sealing surface from the engine block, whereas a Wankel has to inject it into the combustion chamber or pre-mix with the fuel. They have oil consumption down to 4-stroke piston levels.
I've been following and SUPPORTING since last year. Coming Along GREAT
Супер! Молодцы ребята. Без преувеличения скажу это новый прорыв в двигателестроении!
Конечно получится - там же все свои)))
Какой ещё прорыв? Мазда уже 50 лет с роторным двигателем катается, в ссср в 80х разрабатывался
Так это совсем другой по технологии ротор.
@@danunah7737 такое чувство, что вам как об стенку горох..... технология другая, ротор но "на изнанку"... Те прорывные роторы ходили 80 тысяч км.... этот обещает быть значительно долговечнее и плюс мульти топливо. Летом на дизеле гоняй, в центре города на водороде, зимой на бензине, в общем развлекайся как хочешь.
@@ДмитрийСергеев-к8ц ага, размечтался, губу закати.
Got me scratching my head on this one! Engineer here and I'm going to lose sleep tonight!
Maybe if a model could be designed to LIVE ON CO2 could it make any logic at all😂
Credit to all those engineers... Thanks warped perception for the video... Inspirational
A very interesting concept, and great camera work showing the slowmo and inside. However this is just a wankel rotary with some topology changes. Does not avoid the problem of burning oil, and that rotor will be hard to cool and thus intake air is gonna be higher temperature reducing efficiency. Compression ratio can still be a problem, Apex seal problem is also not really fixed (but can potentially be serviced easier). Also torque might be even more of a problem than wankel, just look at that power stroke. Multi rotor design might be harder due to the shaft intake as well
Intake through the shaft adds a rather restrictive intake path as well which will hurt power.
@@Surestick88 Might need a supercharger or turbo. But it looks like some of the power stroke is wasted pushing the wrong way on the rotor.
Its truly an inside out wankel. A dorito with a spinning oval
@@larryvaughn5843 Surely you can say the same for a piston engine with ignition or even steam entry being in advance of reaching top dead centre. Edit: Interesting fact that some Great Western Railway locomotives from what I remember with Stephenson link valve settings had negative lead in full gear to help starting as if one of the pistons was in its initial steam entry it would fight the other cylinder or cylinders and try to go backwards. The lead would come in at shorter cut offs when it would be needed.
@@michaeld5888 I had a 2 stroke motorcycle that would occasionally start and run backwards due to the ignition advance and high compression.
Man this gives me goosebumps. It’s crazy to think that this will change so much. Already invested in this company. Should be a great run.
@Banned Again Optimists don't like it when realists deflate their hopes and dreams.
@@warpedweirdo "Realists" don't like people with vision. They are more interested in throwing rocks than solving hard problems.
@@mwong000 Not at all. Realists see problems that optimists overlook or minimize. A wise optimist will carefully consider the realist's points, weigh the risks, and take appropriate actions. A foolish optimist will minimize the advice of a realist by accuse him of throwing rocks and not doing enough to solve hard problems. Foolish optimists are easy prey for scams.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
@@warpedweirdo The world is full of losers who just say "This won't work!". I have met a lot of them in large corporations (GM, Ford, Sears, Kmart, Montgomery Ward etc) where the culture is stagnant, and people are rewarded more for the maintaining status quo than people who take risk and innovate. These people bore me to death because they never achieve anything.
I am far more energized in people who say "This is the vision. These are the problems. Now let's sit down and figure out how to solve them." Liquid Piston is one of those companies.
@warpedwierdo you can learn and grow or you can try to win this argument and continue being negative. If you choose the second, you will be no smarter 10 years from now than you are today. If you are wise, you will take a moment to think about this before trying to think of a clever retort.
@@mwong000 You judge the credibility of a sales pitch, or the viability of an idea, by how "energized" it makes you feel? ROTFLOL!
The feeling of excitement, agreement, should be a strong signal to stop, take a step back, and very carefully reconsider, because the point at which you're most excited is the point at which you are most vulnerable.
So a peanut inside a dorito is making more power than a dorito inside a peanut, excellent it's all coming together ❤
Very valid observation, it’s interesting how they inverted the engine in a way, it’ll be interesting to see if they can handle boost, if they’ll make multiple rotor engines, if they’ll actually make a production triple or quad rotor I mean who wouldn’t love 12 spark plugs lol, I’m hoping we see four digit power numbers in the near future. If guys in their garage can do it then this team of engineers should be able to do it with ease
@@taylorpratt6287 I've been watching this for a while. I don't think the combustion chamber's overall shape can be altered. To scale up, they either have to make the whole rotor assembly larger or stack them.
@@hollismccray3297 agreed, they should definitely make a larger model with 4 or six rotors, make it liquid cooled and turbo charged
@@hollismccray3297 What is wrong with the shape of the combustion chamber? It seems like the shape of the rotor is fixed but the housing has only three points of contact that are fixed. The rest seems to be flexible. From a purely combustion oriented perspective, the ideal combustion chamber is spherical, with the ignition source in the center. This achieves the shortest distance for flame travel in all directions. This combustion chamber seems to be like a quarter of a sphere. It seems like if they flipped another housing over and bolted them together they would have a hemisphere which would be the best you could do given the fixed shape of the rotor. I don't think they are giving up a lot as it is.
@@5000rgb It is a hemisphere. It's just hard to see because half of it is clear
I remember back in the early 80s machining a glass cylinder head for a singly-cylinder piston engine so that we could fire a Laser Doppler Anemometer into the combustion chamber to 'measure' what was going on inside. This was before computer modelling etc. and it was the very early days of research into exactly what was happening inside a firing piston engine. We built a rig to traverse the 'laser measurement volume' in three dimensions across the combustion chamber to a few degrees before and after TDC. We fed the data into an ICL 2960 mainframe to process the data to give us a chance to 'visualise' the air-flows inside, before and after ignition of the fue;/air mixture.
Very good. There's still one issue with the rotory being the thermal losses. This engine is a great improvement on the Mazda technology, and the power to weight ratio will always be the key to its success.
If this is reliable, it could be revolutionary. Looks to me like heat dissipation, rotor durability, and crankshaft strength are the three biggest areas of potential failures.
Literally the same potential failures as a standard wankel. Mazda had issues with coolant and how to keep it out of the combustion areas and I don't see how this fixes that yet.
@@blakethornsbrough1528 With the rotor being hollow and constantly exchanging gases, this should pull some heat outta the rotor itself, the coolant would then only need to be run through the housing. In theory anyways. That's how it looks like it was designed to me.
@@CF_Sapper you a relative of the guy who designed the egr valve to be "cooled" by coolant? What happens in practice is you heat what you expect to cool. Especially in a 2 stroke style of engine like a rotary behaves.
@@blakethornsbrough1528 No I
Married into the family 😂 I get what you're saying though.
On a second watching they describe how they mix the exhaust with cooling air at a 10-1 cooling air to exhaust cooling the rotor from the inside.
@@CF_Sapper which is fine on a small scale. In application 2 rotor with forced induction there isn't enough airflow to maintain 10/1 at the rpm's a rotary runs especially during spirited driving. Is it potentially a better design than a wankel? Sure. It has a lot of questionable inner workings.
Shout out to those young engineers working there. When your co-founders have PhD's from MIT and UConn, you know you're doing it right!
Guarantee you they are underpaid every one of them. Just saying. I've been on THAT end of a company that's doing great work and all profits seem to be designated to "the greater good" of the company, which is usually the owner's million dollar home, cars and toys. Stay strong guys!
I've been waiting for liquid piston to finally get to market. I've been checking in on their site on and off for years now. The reduction in weight is incredible. 1hp per pound is pretty incredible for a four stroke.
I autocrossed a ‘79 RX7 for several years in the 80s. SK side draft carbs and headers. I never had to go into the short block. Dead reliable and a lot of fun!
My late grandfather has 90+ patents on the Wankel motor, so i am really rooting for this take on it to be a success. Even though i am 100% for electric, there are still some great applications for this thing if they can pull it off... we need highly efficient ICEs if we're gonna keep using them.
electric polutes the most. All ICE can run clean with no bad byproduct.
how could you possibly be convinced of that being scientifically possible in any way? Combustion is the "C" in ICE... there are byproducts in any chemical combustion process. Electric motors use stored energy with little to no byproducts, and especially so if they are getting their charges from renewable energy sources. Gotta stop getting your "science" from fox news.
Hydrogen burns down to CO2 and H2O. Electric cars get charged from the grid…coal fired, gas fired, etc energy. Plus the grid can’t supply enough electricity for most people to drive electric cars. Lithium mining is highly destructive of good ole mother earth. Renewable energy sources are exceedingly expensive, unreliable, inefficient, and not ready for prime time. Internal combustion engines have a bright future ahead.
@@Cloydfunk and extracting oil from the ground and refining it while pumping pollutants and flames into the atmosphere 24/7 is not destructive? Come on, that is nonsense. The more we invest in renewables on a large scale, the less harm electricity will be doing. Combustion engines are a massive part of the reason we are in a climate crisis.
These batteries get the electricity from renewables only? No coal burning at all? Gotta stop watching msnbc and Bill Nye the “science” guy.
how about lubrication ? does it still used 2T oil?
Ente disini juga juragan wkwkw
Bang ft
Can you answer with the lubrication thing, how oiling work done, because as you know the most common problem of the rotary engines is they burning oil with fuel so it's not good for emmisions etc. Will they fixed that problem? can we see the rotary engines legally on the roads again ? @Warped Perception
@@EmreGhost there is no oil reservoir so yes, oil needs to be put in the fuel. Lovely engineering but electric motors are now where it's at
@@EmreGhost no one cares about emissions
Kudos for showing engineers in our natural habitat -- desperately trying to finish up. :-)
A billion dollars tech. Many variations can be developed, from hybrid, otto conf., bigger setup, multiple combinations etc. Congrats. Very satisfying to see a compact stable rpm.
I’d imagine this helps with the heating issue as well. Instead of just one spot where combustion occurs, there are three. Gives one spot a bit of time to cool
I see that the centre portion (piston?) only has one half that gets exposed to the power stroke. Hopefully heating up one side of the peanut shaped piston doesn't cause problems
Am I missing something? Why cannot both sides of the engine (where the see through panel is located) be water cooled chambers?
@@mwong000 They usually do have cooling systems, unless it's in an aircraft, but the problem with standard rotary engines is, combustion is constantly occuring in one spot. There's no exhaust or intake stroke to cool the combustion chamber, just a spinning rotor. so the burning reactions happen back to back, causing excessive heating in one fixed spot of the engine. If you watch the high speed on this video, this engine has three distinct points where fuel is burned. Standard rotaries only have one. So the combustion chamber gets a chance to cool before firing again, because it alternates between three points. The heat of each power stroke is distributed.
@@Nikolai_The_Crazed Im still confused. ANY motor with high hp per cu in will, by definition, create a lot more heat, Right? That doesn't mean we should not try to design high power engines relative to weight or size. Agreed? The challenge is to get rid of the heat and/or use more heat resistant metals. There is A LOT of sq in that can be used for cooling (ie. the sides of the engine). Apparently Liquid Engine guys have a LOT of cooling fins at exactly the place I am describing. . And it is obviously working just fine using air cooling, albeit for just a few minutes of demo. Worst case, for continuous duty, use a water jacket, just like car engines. That may add a little more weight, but so what --- they are so much smaller and lighter that there is plenty of room before they approach conventional engines in size and weight. Therefore, being an engineer, but a novice in engine technology, I don't see why you think cooling is such a show stopper. The US Dept of Defense is funding Liquid Engine over many other contestants, so they must think the technology has promise.
@@mwong000 There is one half of the rotating "piston" that experiences three combustion events per revolution. That section of the piston will be difficult to cool and will just get extremely hot, potentially a failure point. In traditional Wankel, its the sides of the non moving "cylinders" that get heated, once per revolution. These were larger in surface area and accessible to the cooling fluid etc. LP has just moved the problem elsewhere on the structure and increased it 3x in frequency.
Just insane to see that RPM from it in action :D
Looks like the perfect Aviation engine.
A 65hp, 65 lb engine would be excellent for ultralights. They didn’t really measure aspiration,ignition, and exhaust ancillaries in their weight calculation though, so it’s difficult to compare it to anything.
Super cub bush plane for sure
Exactly what I was thinking
Duct the moving air, ram air, add some HP and TQ. Oui ou non???
@@tomcoryell With the weight being down so far you could probably get away with 45-50hp?
Huge potential in portable or mobile power tools, generators, vehicles, EV range extenders, military drones, scooters, chain saw, motorcycle, lawn mower, weed whacker, blowers, snow blowers, paramotors, small aircraft, passenger drones, delivery drones, backup power, biofuel- compost gas- wood gas/ synfuel / cogen systems
I got all excited and I almost forgot. The issue with rotaries wasn't necessarily the rotor or the housing, but the fact that you have to mix oil into the fuel to preserve the rotor seals. Read the brochure and it said 50:1 gas oil mix, IDK if rotaries have a future in auto as long as you have to burn oil.
Yeah it would have to be for small off road applications. At least it should burn it all unlike a 2 stroke piston engine, but i have a feeling emissions is this things holdback. Still very compact though.
The issue was still the rotor and more specifically it was its seals (the apex seals in particular.) The issue with having them in the rotor both made properly lubricating them difficult and also introduced a bunch of forces that seals won't typically see in any other engine. Moving them to the housing reduces the stresses and it makes delivering the proper amount of lubrication easier. You still have to meter some oil that ultimately makes its way into the combustion chamber, its now at amounts comparable to any 4 stroke engine.
@@travisbeagle5691 no way it’s anywere comparable to a 4 stroke, the big difference is that in a Rotary design, the Rotor has to move „through“ the Burning Camber, in a normal 4 stroke reciprocating engin the Burning Camber is „seald off“.
And the Reason why Mazda Stopped using the Good old Wankel were stricter emission Regulatios, Not the notorious Apex seals.
(Yes the Wankel is comming back in the new CX-30, but only as a Range extender in a hybrid Setup)
@@dominik230900 every 4 stroke engine still has to lubricate the piston and cylinder walls. That oil does make direct contact with the burning fuel. Because only a small bit of oil has to be metered in with this style rotary as compared to a Wankel, and only a small portion of it is exposed to fuel burn, oil consumption is comparable to 4 stroke engines. That doesn't mean it's quite as good, but it's comparable.
@@dominik230900 It was a few reasons and I was only answering the original comment which was about burning oil. The other two reasons were efficiency and emissions, both of which are fixed with this engine to the point they can be better than comparable piston engines.
That was awesome. Now we need to see it with boost making 500hp or a 4 rotor.
in other words how to make a see threw design a even more see threw design
@Maximo Moline You could set 'em back to back I think, in banks of 2.
@Maximo Moline "impossible" is a strong word, but it would definitely be challenging
to make it more than two you would probably have to have it in pairs on either side of a gear driven shaft, i don't think more than 2 in a row would be possible without a ton of engineering.
@@thenerdycanadian7172 That's exactly what I mean!
Rob Dahm is frantically making guesstimate dimension sketches and getting ready to make a full size 4 rotor version on his cnc machine!
Hahahaha, from pixel to pixel
Put 3 together make a 9 cylinder monster.
The intake is inside the crankshaft, less than ideal for multi-peanut engines
I've always wanted to see two twin rotors linked to a supercharger in the middle.
With this design I think it would work. 🤔
@@laurean5998 you can have up to two if you have one on each side.
Another idea. Use a 3 rotor design with each rotor having 2 spark plugs and one water injection instead of a spark plug at one of the apexes. This would use some of the surplus heat on the rotor to expand water to steam and do work. It helps control the internal temperature of the engine without necessarily needing traditional water cooling. 3 rotors so that the water cycle can be on a different lobe for each rotor. 120, 240 and 360 degrees to maintain symmetry and balance. You really only have one air cooled combustion surface on the rotor so this may help with heat control extending the durability of the engine. This inside out Wankel is brilliant. Don't stop!
You should hook up a smoke machine to the air intake on an engine. That would make the flow of air more visible and I think it would look cool
This new rotary configuration is extremely interesting and I cannot wait for more advanced prototypes.
I was wondering about the seals. A lot of surfaces sliding past each other.
The seal problem was "solved" with the Wankel rotary. And by solved, I mean it's still the biggest mechanical headache.
This engine is better because the main seals are stationary and easier to design. In the Wankel, those seals rotate in a crazy pattern. They suffer from both the rotational force plus some acceleration at odd angles. In the hybrid design, the main seals just sit there. They can be spring loaded and internally lubricated which makes the more reliable and gives them gentler failure modes. More likely to leak than shatter.
However, my understanding was that the main seals weren't the big problem with the Wankel, the end seals were. The end seals on the Wankel are much larger and prone to leak. On the hybrid design, the end seals are larger still and their geometry is more complex. I expect they will continue to prove troublesome. But they did a fair job on the Wankel and we've had 40 more years to work the problem. I can't imagine it's a design breaking problem.
I want to make a friction joke here.
@@jwrosenbury My understanding is that the oil burning, thus emissions, were the big problem with the Wankel.
@@rylian21 Gasoline engines produce three types of bad emissions. These are carbon monoxide (CO), oxides of nitrogen (NOx), and hydrocarbon emissions (HC). Of these, NOx is hardest to deal with. The other two can be significantly reduced by a catalytic converter.
A Wankel engine does have higher HC emissions. But it has lower NOx emissions. CO is about equal.
Catalytic converters increase exhaust pressure leading to lower efficiency (as do mufflers, BTW). Leaking gaskets also lower efficiency, as does lower thermal efficiency in the Wankel. (The lower thermal temperature/ efficiency leads to the lower NOx emissions.)
So overall, I would call it a wash as far as emissions go. Wankel's are slightly lower for the amount of fuel burned, but lower efficiency means more fuel burned overall.
Wankels have a much better power to weight ratio, almost twice as high. This leads to lighter vehicles and thus better fuel efficiency in practice, but probably not enough to offset the lower fuel efficiency over piston engines, at least for ground applications. Power to weight ratio is more important in aircraft design.
However, changes in the shape of the combustion chamber will likely solve some of this issue. Such changes have already been made to piston engines. There are a broad range of possible combustion chamber geometries available in this new hybrid design, so there are likely some advances in the future.
The hybrid design reasonably claims to have a higher fuel efficiency on top of a better power to weight ratio. If this pans out in practice, it will be a far superior engine to traditional piston engines. Losing a little efficiency to a catalytic converter is a small price to pay for a 20% theoretical boost overall.
@@rylian21 along with horrible fuel economy and poor durability as I doubt very few of those you didn't say the RX8 make it to a hundred fifty thousand even with some engine repair along the way sometimes you come out to your car and if it didn't turn off just right in the right spot you couldn't even start your car that's so lame that's like mid-century carburetor type movie situation stuff nobody puts up with that no more
I had a 1974 RX4 Coupe as my adrenalin toy for when I wasn't busy racing outboard hydroplanes in Canada. After having two apex seal failures, I retired the car (it had also started to rust away) in 1980 and gave the engine to a racing buddy and usher at my wedding who had specialists in Toronto rebuild it. We then put it in his RX7, a tight fit as it was 25% bigger than that car's original mill. It went very, very fast... until it also popped another seal. I gave up playing with rotaries but became briefly interested again when OMC developed its racing outboard rotary engines. Again, too short life span, so I returned to internal reciprocating engines. Am delighted to see true believers have kept the faith.
Guys, let’s support this company!! We need more and better rotaries on the streets!
Why?
@@nathanwahl9224
Because electrics suck 😂😂
This is so amazing to me! I had an old Mazda RX7 years ago, and really loved that car!
This engine corrects all the flaws that was in that design it seems!
Excited to see this continue to mature and grow into something great!
007
To be fair, the wankel was designed 50 years ago...
Многообещающий проект. Надеюсь у них всё получится.
Уж не развод ли это
@@ВасилийПупкин-т1я кто знает
@@KandakovNS слишком всё как-то гладко выходит
@@ВасилийПупкин-т1я если контракт с армией США выгорит, будущее им обеспечено
@@KandakovNS Я не инженер, но могу с уверенностью сказать что это проблемный двигатель.
1) сгорание происходит все время с одной стороны ротора, а при такой конструкции это локальный перегрев, и уже не блока от которого можно хорошо отводить тепло.
2) выпуск через тот же ротор, а это еще плюс к перегреву, выхлоп очень горячий бывает.
3)вытекает из первых двух: если одна часть горячая, вторая холодная, то и зазоры должны быть немалые, а это лишний расход топлива и потеря мощности.
4)Проблемы со смазкой присущие всем роторам, а соответственно большой расход масла.
5)Сложность (хотя не столько сложность, сколько необычность) конструкции относительно поршневых двигателей, к которым все привыкли. Далеко не каждый автомеханик сможет понять что случилось, особенно в полевых условиях.
и еще множество множество всего, что я упустил/не заметил/не знал
I was a lead Volvo dealer Service Advisor…. We called the “run it at high rpm’s until it stops smoking .. an “Italian Tune Up”! Worked great on over babied engines..especially the diesels….
The only thing that would concern me with the intake and exhaust design is if scaled up into a car engine would the hollow eccentric shaft be able to handle high power forced induction applications.
I worked at Mazda North America for 15 years rebuilding the rotary engines. The Eccentric shaft was the most difficult thing for them to make. I don't believe a hollow shaft could hold up to fourth in the engine.
They will have to fix the intake and exhaust for automotive or larger applications. Small scale is fine.
I want to see a Turbo Diesel Version, and if it outperforms a 90s stock Cummins i will melt
If you look closely, you can see the seals on the walls of the engine moving up and down like they're on a spring. That's such a smart way to reduce the wear, and make room for tolerances from these "inverted apex seals." What a creative engine design all around. Mazda needs to send a rep down there and pay these fellas some money for their patent. I'd love to see this applied to a car some day!
It’s just as crap as a wankel.
Mazda's apex seals are on a spring as well, that's not the issue with the engine
@@mareksumguy1887 why so?
@@metaphorpritam look at the BSFC.
@@mareksumguy1887 Yeah, and? Looks comparable to diesel. The only problem is distribution of pressure on the rotor, which actually causes some loss if efficiency.
This is the best internal combustion engine the world has ever seen. I can't wait to run a sized-up version in my 1998 VW Passat
My Son is a mechanic and has always like the rotary engines. He feels that if the seals are fixed then it’s ready to rock !
A direct injection design would improve efficiency even further, all we need is for you to compound supercharge it now!!
I'd also love too see this running some boost turbo or supercharged,The power to weight would be increased tenfold.
@@mattyceks380 true, but getting the heat out could be a problem. With the additional heat, I wonder how much the rotor would grow and possibly decrease clearance to the point of locking the rotor and housing together? With only one face of the rotor only being the hot side, the potential is there for uneven heating and therefore warping of the rotor if you push it too hard, which, adding forced induction would be really easy to do...
@@kleetus92 well keeping bigger clearances shouldn't be too bad for the engines if the (apex?) seals can slide in and out...
I agree with the direct injection, the hemisphericalish chamber shape is great, but there still are long, thin arms which will lead to incomplete/too cold combustion.
A nomal piston is oil cooled from the bottom, can transfer heat to the cylinder wall and gets cooled with cold, uncompressed intake mixture inbetwen cycles.
But the combustion face has pretty much no cooling exept air from the back side, that would have me very concerned about pre ignition and knock.
Also no crankcase lubrication or am I missing something?
I'd wonder if the traditional methods of increasing power would work as well, based on this being a hybrid of several other cycles. It's a very interesting TS diagram for sure. I suppose increasing air/fuel density should work no matter what, but it may not yield quite the expected increase in power. Or maybe more, who knows. But I bet they're looking at it!!!
@@mattyceks380 I looked into the company more, and it's unfortunately really disappointing. Their 750cc X4 motor only makes 40 horsepower and only revs to 6000 RPM. To make matters worse - That's with a turbocharger, meaning even a Geo Metro engine is better (993cc, 55 horsepower and revs to 6500 RPM).
Also, they measure their engines without manifolds, fuel, or even ignition systems. So the advertised weight isn't even the weight of a running engine. That means that the power to weight ratio is actually horrendous and they're just really good at marketing.
You moved the ‘apex’ seals from the spinning piece to the stationary piece. Very cool, and probably provides an engine that’ll last longer than 100k miles, but still...
Just think of the applications of motorizing scooters & small motorcycles using this engine design.
Even powering some cool & fast Quadmobiles would be great because of the lighter weight of your rotary design plus seems it could be economic fuel saving meaning you could go alot further with one go full fill up
@@UltimateForceMarketing We have the perfect engine for that already, It's called a piston engine.
The company unfortunately seems kind of sketchy. This video has more information than their own website.
Oh heck, we're only a few hours apart! 👀
Y'all should seriously do a collab!! That would be SICK!!!!
Really where you at ?
@@WarpedYT Ames Iowa
Wow to see two of my favorite channels do a collab will be awesome!! I'll be watching out lol
Oh yeah your close, Man I gotta think of something crazy !
People who pronounce words wrong because they learned the foreign language by reading deserve an upvote
The human mind is an amazing thing. This engine is part math, physics and art.
but mostly...useless junk. as all rotary engines are. the sealing surfaces in this engine are no more desirable than in any other wenkel. They may not break, but they'll wear out just as fast. The main problem with all rotary ICE's. No way to properly lubricate it.
oliver durgen I have no experience owning a Wankel. I am a licensed heavy duty mechanic so I’m curious how these would do with the natural lubricity of diesel? What kind of compression ratios can these handle?
@@14goldmedals how do you separate the oil system from the combustion event?
in a piston engine, the piston does this job, as well as lubricating itself by collecting oil from the sump and distributing it on the cylinder walls.
In a Wenkel, there is no way to separate the lubrication from the combustion chamber. The oil is constantly burning off, collecting debris/ash, and/or just going right out the exhaust as unburned hydrocarbons. Sort of like a 2-stroke.
Life isn't some big conspiracy, like many would have you to believe. Rotary engines suck, and that is only one of the many reason why. Least of not is performance, which outside of very small sportscars, isn't very impressive, from a power density or fuel efficiency standpoint.
Torque is the ability to preform work. Per liter of fuel, rotory engines make less torque than just about any ICE I can think of, regardless of size or purpose.
The best attributes of the rotary engine are it's compactness, and minimal vibration. This has uses in packaging. But outside of some bizarre form factor, there are much better alternatives to rotary engines, especially now.
Art? I don't think so
1% part each. The rest imagination. This engine has been around a while and still no application and no available engine. Cool demonstration, now let's see the math from actual testing.
I heard it described as and inside out wankle, now I can totally see why that's accurate
I think Rob Dahm would be someone willing to test bed a larger version in one of his cars. He has 2/3/4 and is building a 6 rotor and loves the engineering side of this kind of thing.
I know Rob. ... One day soon hopefully
1.2 mpg
Wow, this is amazing, its like the rotor and housing are switched! Its something you can see often in electric engines, but figuring this out for rotary engines is a beautifull thing
Interesting design which is good because it gets rid of the unequal heat distribution of the Mazda Felix Wankel design but this design probably still suffers from less torque than a typical piston engine and probably suffers even worse from excessive surface to volume ratio which in any case could be circumvented with direct injection if you go to that route.
So excited for this.
This would be a GREAT engine for electric generators! Simple, easy to fix, runs on ANY fuel,..... perfect!
I can't wait to play with these in applications where conventional combustion engines have been too heavy
yoooo weedtrimmers and edgers would be so much simpler and lighter
Please not a gas powered hot glue gun
@@cals4887 "With the Friz? No way!"
"Aw"
Imagine this in something like an 1/8th or 1/6th R/C
@@samfrinzi6392 chainsaws too
The rotary engine is truly fascinating. They're actually quite reliable these days if built correctly as was proven already at Le Mans.
Looks like they were able to reduce the number of seals (and biggest failure points) to 5 or so. Progress.
Was it actually running by itself or was the starter still helping it?
Been working on rotaries for long time. The wankel sealing issue was resolved by cutting 3 mm apex seals. Additionally by opening the intake and exhaust ports relieved a lot of the other issues.. I have a 13B running 550 HP with a gt 45 turbo and it is extremely reliable. ANother wanel issue was heat buildup on the rotor and we found by lightening the rotor made it worse. Running 2 stroke as a premix reduce the carbo buildup and lowered the overheating Be nice to see what happens with your design under high HP and heat/carbon buildup.
3mm Apex seals, what are the originals? 2mm ? I dont remember
Thanks for that info, very insightful. Does it start well in the cold? Aside from seals and cooling, what about the emissions due to the oil being burned? How do you deal with that?
I am interested to learn how they are lubricating the seals
With the seals being stationary a small amount of oil could be metered into the seal slots in the housing with a variable displacement pump that could vary the oil delivery according to engine speed and load. In the developmental stage the oil is probably mixed with the fuel as is done with small 2 stroke engines.
I never heard the liquid rotor engine until now. Sounds like heaven! I love that sound.
This is amazing. A new development like this in rotary engines have been a long time coming. I wonder what the power/torque curves look like, how it responds to porting, and whether it likes turbocharging or supercharging.
According to some research they published the engine doesn't really like turbocharging, because they over expand the exhaust stroke, which increases efficiency, but produces less exhaust pressure, thus makes a turbo less effective.
I wonder the same thing. I also wonder if it will scale up in size very well. especially for multiple rotors and with the way the intake works.
@@gregkramer5588 From what I've seen, the power almost doesn't scale at all. The 70cc X Mini engine shown in the video makes 3.5 horsepower while weighing more than 4 pounds (they just weigh the engine block and rotor). Their 750cc model should theoretically make more than 10.7x as much power, if it actually scaled. Turns out, it actually does make than 10.7x the power of the X Mini - with a help of a turbocharger, meaning the engine weighs even more than they market, while being even less inefficient.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 That is what I was thinking also. The rotor looks heavy and the internal intake port both seem like they would not scale well.
@@joeKisonue But will only work for low power applications since it does not scale was my point. These applications seem to all be turning to eclectic. Sad to say but the window is closing for this to go anywhere.
Are they thinking of offering a larger 2, or 3 rotor version for cars. I'm sure plenty of rx7 and rx8 owners would love to swap a newer more efficient rotary into their cars instead of an LS.
Pmsl
Well, right now they aren't selling ANY engines of this type. This is not new. It's been around for quite a while, going back to 04. It was demonstrated in 2014. Still nothing.
So basically, it's a single cylinder engine that acts and functions as an inline-3? Sounds like a wonderful concept! Imagine the power-to-weight efficiency in motorcycles, for example.
There have been wankel motorcycles you know? It just wasn't developed enough(was very unreliable).
@@sierrachief117 Yes, I was aware. Why ask?
@@akisalmenaho8473 Because your comment made it sound like you didn’t know it existed.
@@naythanjones2320 But, this new engine is not a wankel, it gets rid of all the issues that wankel engine has (for the most part that is).
Props on the credit. Engineers are usually only thrown under the bus, but serious props are often needed. Good job!
As a machinist it's because most of them just want to go straight into cad/design and have no experience, or business, near a machining center. I can't tell you how many times I've had to send the drawings back because of a dumb ass.
4 hp doesn't sound like a lot, but remember, a 4 hp standard 4 stroke piston engine weighs at least 30lbs
RC engines disagree with you.
@@superskullmaster they need total teardowns every run, so I could care less if they agree
@@THESLlCK no they don't haha, either way, this is very cool. but impractical its just a show and tell piece it will never be as reliable, cheap nor powerful as a basic 2 stroke engine and the intake thru crank design limits its ability to be made multi rotor and limits porting to make more power. its a dud
@@delta7743 I imagine that as they make these engines larger, they will probably increase the size of the intake port to match the engine size. Just because the engine design means that backyard engineers can't bore out the intake port doesn't make the engine a dud.
I'm not saying that there aren't other issues with the design that they have to work out, but your complaint about not being able to port the engine? Build your own if you want to have an oversized intake.
edit: I totally agree with you about the reliability and price, you can't beat a 2-stroke, no matter how much you abuse it.
@@THESLlCK You could? How much more?
Did anyone notice how much the "not apex" seals were moving?
They are probably spring-supported too.
I'm wondering why the rotor and chamber can't be round.
@@brettknoss486
You can buy those....They are called fans.
@@bobsullivan5714 the other way, curved like a conventional piston, with rings on the block.
I see a possibility to have 'rollers' instead of apex seals. Rollers would wear a fraction as much, while also cooling and oiling themselves.
You said in your post that this video was posted 51 years ago... now it says 9 hours ago 🤣🤣
Back in the sixties, a friend of mine had a small Mazda with a rotary engine. He allowed me to drive it, and I was absolutely amazed with the power of that small engine. It would accelerate dangeously fast!