I really enjoy hearing about Chinese films from a Chinese perspective. It's not something we see a lot in the TH-cam Video essay genre. Also, I like the pacing of the video and your calm narration style.
TH-cam is banned on China, everything the Chinese view online is heavily censored which is why we never hear about any of the awful shit they're doing. China is still a communist dictatorship
Dalia B I really don't think the video maker's opinion reflect the mind of ordinary Chinese, but rather a Chinese immigrant with identity crisis mistakenly fantasying himself being at the receiving end of the so called "China threat". To some extent, I feel sorry for this guy
I like how in certains Chinese films, there is always a psycothic japanese guy who commits brutal acts, and a wise general that is aware what might happen if China awakes.
That actually sound kinda similar to the dynamic of Tora Tora Tora, and American film about the lead up to Pearl Harbor, where the Zealous Japanese Military forces the hand of a wise and reserved Admiral for is fearful of the "Sleeping Giant" that America could be. Dont know if its coevolution, one being inspired from the other, or both being at least mildly propagandistic
CORRECTIONS: Druken Master II was released in 1994, not 1961. (Thanks to commenter AICW) Fearless was released in 2006, not 1995. (Thanks to commenter Gyan Lee)
A very valid criticism! Chinese reviewers often criticized the crass Americanism in Hollywood flicks and yet the local movie industry now commits the same mistake...
The Wandering Rey It’s funny because patriotism and nationalism in Hollywood is pretty much dead now. One thing that Hollywood holds over Chinese cinema is America’s diverse culture. Different faces and skin color and different stories to tell. Something China doesn’t have.
It's not the same mistake but it's even worse. I think what really caused this is that Chinese patriotism is predominantly based on the antagonization of the west, which is a communism and cold war hangover. The Chinese directors need to realise this problem and change the way Chinese patriotism works by changing the focus to the appreciation of Chinese art, philosophy, culture and history instead of warmongering contents like the communist movies in the old days. It is possible to make a patriotic action movie without aggression towards the world. For example, although Kingsman is about the protagonist beating up bad guys, I've never felt any aggression towards the world, what I really felt about the movie is the appreciation of British history and culture.
@@tristanlau1213 Chinese culture has been traditionally all about inward/domestic stuff, while Western culture has been seeking for the exotic (especially true during the Romantic era). Many European operas and plays, for example, explores either the exotic cultures or panders towards ancient myths (which is also exotic compared to their Judeo-Christian culture), while Chinese operas and plays traditional folklore and legends. As a lover of Chinese cinema, I don't find those anti-Western thoughts to be hindering my movie watching experience just like I don't roll my eyes when the "America saves the day" theme plays in Hollywood. It's quite unique. Doing anything different than that would be just ruining the genre, in my opinion. I know Hollywood is steering away from the Uncle Sam knows best kinda of movie. However, I don't think whatever Hollywood is doing to try raise awareness on imperialism in their movies isn't as effective as what Chinese and Hong Kong cinemas had done. It's just much more meaningful seeing the dangers of imperialism from a victim of imperialism rather than the oppressor themselves.
@Cyo Rui Competition? I mean, have you seen Operation Red Sea? It just takes Hollywood visuals of middle eastern terrorism and puts in Chinese government heroes. Have you considered, instead of "countering," making better movies.
This is why I was so surprised and delighted at the end of _Fearless,_ when the Japanese fighter concedes at the end seeing that he had been bested. The message, that the honor between warriors transcends national boundaries, was so powerful and it remains one of my favorite scenes. I think that film did a relatively good job of portraying people as representative of, but ultimately seperate from their nations.
@@youn00ber propaganda in films dates back to its earliest inception as a medium, it's always existed, if one just does a bit of research you'll find films from the 1930s even that had propaganda in them... It's unfortunately part of it sometimes, which is why when it came to a movie like Ip Man, I just chose to watch it for the martial arts 😁
@@cyborgchicken3502 the propaganda in Ip Man was too distracting for me to engage with the film. Also, the serious nature of the story clashes will the exaggerated martial arts. I also think it's pretty dodgy to portray a recent historical figure as something completely different or to stage some made up story. Ip man was a police officer before and after the war, and didn't beat ten men in a karate competition. The film is kung fu fetishism mixed with historical propaganda. Down to including the most stereotypical image of a Japanese person possible, with those round glasses commonly used in propaganda posters. Huo Yuanjia (if I got that right) or ''Fearless'' was a better film in comparison. I can't talk about the historical accuracy because idfk, but at least it didn't feel like full on propaganda and its main character wasn't portrayed as a Jesus like figure who can do no wrong.
@@youn00ber The character of Masao Kadokawa, a Sgt in the Imperial Japanese Army, in Chuan's City of Life and Death. Even his superior officer, who is arguably more of an antagonist, has a fair amount of dimension to him. That said, City of Life and Death is definitely an outlier.
This is a powerful commentary. As someone who is comfortable with American and Chinese culture, I can see every point you made. I was never fort able with patriotic films (from any origin), the extreme patriotism seem like a toxic cult. I agree with you on the “...nothing to learn...” closing sentiment.
@@cyborgchicken3502 These negative stereotypes are caused by ignorance. More exposure to 'Other' (race, culture, countries) film will go a long way to shed these negative images. Netflix is a good start, but more still needs to be done.
No idea how I got here, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Really would love to see more on your analysis on China, perhaps something about the Chinese psyche and how it is portrayed in film? Keep it up.
The "nothing to learn" reminds me of Wu Peifu, a chinese warlord in the early 1900s. He believed China would never need to learn from other countries. When China got cars and airplanes he would justify it as something that has always been chinese because "prototype aeroplanes and automobiles were invented in ancient China".
"he would justify it as something that has always been Chinese because "prototype aeroplanes and automobiles were invented in ancient China" Wu Peifu Indian cousin: th-cam.com/video/TqqWL1NowyE/w-d-xo.html
LOL, you kind of see that in those Chinese HMMVV knock-offs. Of course, there were Eurocopter Dauphins (Z-9) and Tigers (Z-9Ws), but those are licensed to Harbin by the Europeans. Nevermind, they have been invented in Tang Dynasty anyway.
This dialogue from Drunken Master 2 " our future generations might have to go abroad just to see Chinese national treasures" resonates a lot with me because as a Indian most of our national treasures are in the British national museum 😢
You still have many treasures in India, your national museum in New Delhi is incredible and filled with amazing history. The buddha relics, the chola bronze and the Kohinoor. I absolutely loved it!
@@RobespierreChelsea that's true but still many of the ancient idols are still in other countries. For example during our Prime minister's visit to USA he was gifted around 10 ancient relics which were taken from India. Recently Australia send back some ancient idols which were taken from India as a gesture of goodwill. There are also atleast one news everyday about ancient idols being found underground. A lot of the history of my country has either been stolen or buried thanks to islamic and British invasions 😢
As a Mexican most of ours were melted down and turned into gold coins for the Spanish and pur city’s destroyed to build colonial towns in a Spanish way
Saw a clip in reddit r/HolUp: You know how when you get robbed, you never see your stuff again... Apparently there is a place in London where you can go and see all the stuff that's been taken. - okay, so we just got to the British Museum... funny and sad at the same time...
Heres an idea for a movie. WW3, China and NATO are at war. During some heavy fighting a Chinese and western soldier are left together at the bottom of a mine shaft. Their legs are broken, out of ammo, guns destroyed and cant reach eachother with their knives. So, using a small tablet computer to translate they start talking. And the movie is about the journeys these two have taken to get to this point. And the realization that, whoever wins the fighting directly above them, will likely rescue one and kill the other.
Alex W S Chan English is not the only language spoken in “the west”, though it is one of the most prolific. The western soldier could be from anywhere in Europa or the Americas. Personally, I’d like to see one from Iceland or a Spanish speaking country, if only for the sake of ancestral pride.
As western, I think being portrayed as a buffon villain that is defeated "because we are the good ones" is annyoning, but in the film of the Drunken Master I definetly side with the chinnese pov. Same with american films. (i am not from usa). If they fight against buffons, I drop the movie, but if the villain is as interesting as the "good ones" i side with the good ones.
0:51 completely correct. The speech in Independence Day is about being proud of an achievment in the past (gaining independence), the Chinese movie sounds more like a threat to potential opposition.
It's kinda more than that. It compares that past achievement to the current challenge and concludes that while once again the American people are fighting for their freedom this time they don't do it alone and also they are not fighting for their independence but for their lives. That speech was designed for uniting people and if I was in that spot having to deliver a speech rallying troops from all corners of the world I'd opt for something similar. That's also why most of these American movies are still kinda enjoyable even for non-Americans and people with mixed feelings about US World Dominance. That Chinese speech was pure cringe and would at best cause foreigners to feel antagonized by it. But I think this sends an even stronger message to the Chinese themselves: Stick out and you'll be cut down. With "Patriotic" displays like this China basically causes itself being perseived to be the "bad guy". The path this entire Nation went down recently also bears very close similarities to the Rise and ultimate fall of Imperial Japan - with the ending probably being very similar. Even with 1.4 Billion people you can't fight the entire world, especially not if you're depending on trade.
As a Non-North American, I and plenty of people I know have always found the Murican jingoistic shit in a movie just as cringy and nauseating as I imagine Wolf-Warrior to be. I hated Independence Day.
Lots of.anti foreigner movies out in China. Problem is. They are not very good movies. Instead of focussing on good stories they simplify the narrative into nationalist propaganda. Even the past propaganda movies had some character development. Now they dont really even bother. They just follow a simple 90's formula that doesnt cut it in this day and.age.
It's always the case that movie turn out bad when it's more about using the movie as a vehicle for political agendas rather than strong story and making a good movie first.
But you gotta admit the producers are smart. These movies turned out to be a lot more popular and made a lot more money than some of the best written films.
Rickard Johansson my problem with this is when he shows a movie like that, westerners instantly think this is propaganda pushed by the centralised authoritarian government. When in reality, this is simply a fuck up. Every one of these movies’ scripts gets a hard time passing the media department because it’s actually somewhat against the message the government is trying to push. But released anyway as dumb fun. Many military people don’t like it either because it “defaces the image of the PLA” by glorifying what the actual military consider as negative traits. The only people who really like it are some nationalistic ordinary people which China has plenty of. Really, this series’ commercial success owns to the nationalism amongst (frankly delusional) ordinary working class people.
jack lee given the current level of nationalist sentiment in China, I highly doubt the government need to make much effort to promote this type of film
@@叶子-q2w The perception of desecration by the ruling government of Mainland China depends on their interests and not the interests of the Chinese nation as a whole. Even if something is good for China, as long as it's not good for the Communist Party, is considered desecration.
The chinese narative is so interesting. On one hand, a large fertile land, centuries of wisdom, mesmerising beauty. On the other, an troubled nation, hauntes by trauma and resentment, who struggles with identity.
8 out of 10 biggest battle in the world is fought on china. The top 2 is both ww1 and ww2, the latter even fought on china too. This basically gave us an insight on what kind of turbulent nation china was / is. Majority of their history is them slaughtering and enslaving eachother while the most recent of their history involved then getting massacred and conquered by multiple foreign powers.
@Fei Long 黄飞龙 you forgot about the mongolian and the manchus? both are pretty much foreign invaders and you are conquered by them for over hundred of years. Han chinese are even forced by the manchus to cut their hair in Queue style as a mark of their submission to the qing dynasty.
@@sunshineskystar well that was in the past, as u know the mongols never rest because war is the only way for them to exist considering their environment. Now the mongols work for the han chinese since the current meta isn't about miltary war.
I agree with you. There is a huge difference between nationalism and patriotism. Excessive nationalism leads to arrogance and arrogance leads to eventual downfall. Patriotism on the other hand is to admit our faults, to learn from it, and to continually improve and better ourselves.
I remember I watched a patriotic about Chinese fighting with Japanese in WW2, and a part really impressed me depicted a Japanese soldier, who was always fascinating about China's geography and culture, sketching the mountains all the way with the march, eventually died by fighting with Chinese army. Though Japanese won the battle at the end, that soldier's death made the whole war absurd and meaningless, criticized the injustice of Japanese govt. at the most, sending a more powerful message. Maybe that's a little out of topic, but I want to say over-simplified enemies also make patriotism without depth, patriotism should be about how to innovate our nation, rather than just beat the shit out of your enemies.
I think it's just that many old movies don't oversimplify the enemy, but the IJA itself is too stereotyped. For example, if Palestine still exists 50 years later, how would it describe today's IDF? I think it would be very similar to the Japanese army described in those old Chinese movies, like a cannibal running out of a mental hospital
Oh, that's exactly what that shit is. When he was describing the aspects of those Chinese patriotism movies I was insstantly reminded of all these aggrandizing jingoism free for alls that pop up here at home on a regular basis. Our worship of our military and belief that the soldiers and military do no wrong and deserve ONLY support is insane.
@@RicochetForce Hollywood war movies are a mixed bag. Some of them are just dumb pro-America films, like Sniper and the Transformers movies. Some look like pro-war movies, but are actually pro-military and anti-war at the same time, like Black Hawk Down, and some have complicated messages, like Saving Private Ryan. What the video writer said though is the key: it's okay to have a patriotic movie, but the difference between patriotism and propaganda is that a patriotic movie recognizes the flaws in a nation, and tries to show people how they can grow and improve, while a propaganda film just says "we're already perfect, and we don't need to be better."
@@Carakav Dont see any even remotly anti War Message in Black Hawk down and saving Privat Ryan isnt complicated at all its just Murica f.... yea! f... the evil skin head( all Germans have shaved Heads in the Movie) nazi Germans. Sure the Protagonists have more weaknisses, thats to make them more relatable and building a strognger Contrast to the faceless, characterless(besides from being just totaly evil) Enemys.
I am an American. A few years ago, I took my first trip out of my nation: I went to London. The second day I was there, I visited the British Museum. I was stunned and awed at their collection of amazing artifacts and items. While walking through the Hall of Oriental Art, I was stopped by a gorgeous jade ring and paused a moment to admire its beauty. At the same time, a tour group came into the hall and I saw the Chinese flag on the tour guide's sign. A young Chinese woman walked up to the display and for a moment, we both looked at the ring. I wanted to say something to her, to reach out and make some connection. I simply said, "It's very beautiful." She turned to me and looked me dead in the eyes and said in her accented English, "It belongs to us." That was the moment my American self-centered view of the world vanished and I realized the world is a lot different than I'd ever thought.
@@hendrikschluter959 It makes sense though, alot of people go into the military with the promise of decent salary. Hell isn't that one of the main hooks recruiters use to persuade people to enlist?
I thought the same damn thing, too. Their attack helicopters look like Apache's, their standard vehicles look like Humvees, and their weapons, well, no one really cares about their standard infantry weapons.... Many of their vehicles are just carbon-copies of American or Russian vehicles.
@@billyjohnson3674 Copy until you catch your technological backwardness then come with some new shit. The Russian maybe really russian because there is no embargo but the U.S one are surely copied because they can't buy from them.
@@billyjohnson3674 im not chinese to support chinese act because of patriotism but its so wise to copy a good and tested idea and cut research costs But sometimes copied products may not fully meet your needs
I completely forgot about the nationalist message in Drunken Master 2 and you're absolutely right about false sense of pride that leads to a country falling behind, I would think China having experienced the century of humiliation would be very aware of this. That said, I think these types of movies are meant to build up pride and identity among Chinese again instead of worshiping foreign media and physical products.
@@Surteronarto The CCP is not the worst thing to happen to China. It would not have been better if the Nationalists won. If they had China would be like Japan Taiwan or Korea, playing second fiddle and not allowed to be a potential superpower that it is today. I can't really excuse the CCP for failed policies like the cultural revolution or the great leap forward but I will say they weren't meant to be harmful at inception.
@@Surteronarto Ahhh yes. I guess it would be nice to have a country to sell drugs to doesn't it? Also guess why do you think communist "shit hole" got the support in China? Cuz when people are hungry they don't care about the capitalist "self-balancing" market and how it's suppose to be the only form of economic that works. They want food. And stable fucking lives. Which colonist/capitalism/democracy failed to provide for them at the time. It's hillarious how people would judge the hell out of China for choosing communism while completely ignoring the fact communism rose precisely because western countries and their glorious ideology made people's lives miserable.
@@stevenzhao3414 they don't realize the dirty deeds and exploitation that had to be done to make thpeir lives in the west comfortable or unwilling to admit it. Slavery seems to be the only one that gets talked about and the only one that needs to be felt sorry for apparently.
@@Drownedinblood slavery is the talked about because it's the one that hits home the most. Many African-Americans in America descended from former slaves. Also, the Civil War pits both Northeners and Southeners, literally a war against brothers. Not to mention it's quite a big deal that it requires a constitutional amendment to make slavery illegal. Also, the US leaves a small footprint in terms of old-fashioned imperialism. Except for the Philippines, Guam, Puerto Rico, they don't plant any flags on other territories. Manifest Destiny was masked as national destiny for America to rule from era to shining sea, while economic neo-imperialism in Central and Latin American countries weren't as apparent and masked under both the Monroe Doctrine and anti-Communism.
@@stevenzhao3414 extremely well said, the vast majority of my fellow Americans, like I'm assuming John Jordan is, are completely ignorant and unable to understand sociopolitical and economic conditions in the nations that have been ravaged by the west. The neoliberal society that has blossomed in the West has completely white-washed history to the point where most people don't even realize that the U.S. is literally an imperial entity that does nothing but meddle in the affairs of other countries
@Steven Hunt That's something even IP man latest film does too, making the antagonist a cartoon villain with no motivations or anything of the sort. They are de-humanized and treated as the punching bag and nothing else.
@@mr.kenway4554 Doesn't have to involve crying. Gene Wilder was very fun as Willy Wonka due to his great acting.
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Loving your essays. As a Portuguese filmmaker I face the same lack of film identity and impulse to do Hollywood knock offs, as there are few Portuguese films that are not either social class drama or crass comedies. Love the way you break down and analyze films, themes and culture. Congratulations and looking forward to seeing more essays and movies by you.
One of my friends, who is American-born Chinese put it very simply: "A lot of these films and TV dramas about the war demonize foreigners and especially the Japanese. It's not a positive message to purvey." This sort of "Patriotism" is only a hindrance and doesn't move China forward. I believe many of the younger generation realize this, but holding on to only that leaves no room for growth and creates a blackness in the hearts of the people. I'm not defending what the Japanese did, but does China really need to put out a new WWII TV drama every year with the same plot and the same "evil Japanese?"
There are also a lot of them being CCP propaganda. To be honest though, sometimes I like to watch them since they have a nice story and diverse characters to back it up but it doesn’t really help with relations. In fact, I think it worsens it, especially with the Chinese that has never known much of the world or children. Japanese will be specifically targeted due to their war crimes. Funny enough, I heard a lot of Chinese actually go to japan for vacation.
You and your loved ones were not on the receiving end of the WW2 Japanese, of course, you can forget and forgive with hearts. I am not a fan of movies ridiculing or stereotyping Japan, but at least I understand where the Chinese grudges came from. Someday the Chinese are going to put their old hatreds away, but you, I, we, have to respect that it is their call, not ours. It is not up to us to tell them how they should handle their scars.
@@tianxiu As a Asian with BOTH heritage, I am getting sick and tired of the Chinese part of my family still holding a grudge. You don't hear the Mongol part of me bitching about the Khans
The reason Chinese people still focus this much on the Japanese war crime is that Japanese is trying to wipe this off their history books. If new generations of Japanese forget about the sorrow they brought to the world, who would guarantee this wouldn't happen again? On the contrary, Germans put their crimes into their history book and apologised for that! It's good to memorise the sorrows the war brought to us and why the war came, China was too weak to defend itself. However, I don't really agree with the values those TV dramas or The Wolf Warriors trying to express, evil people are not born evil, they turn evil for reasons! Devils on the Doorstep is actually a good China-Japan war movie, telling a story of kind people turning into monsters in the war.
What’s interesting is that both Chinese and American action films tend to rely HEAVILY on the “invincible male protagonist who can do no wrong and doesn’t need to learn anything” trope to carry the film. I used to think that trope was only in American films but it looks like Chinese cinema has picked up that nasty habit too. That’s very unfortunate.
While that is usually true, I believe there are a high number of "sacrificial heroes" in Western movies as well. I don't believe China would make movies such as The Wall (not to be confused with the Pink Floyd movie) and all those other anti-Vietnam movies.
china sucks at filmmaking. hollywood writers have learned how to make convincing heroes and villains: no one is all good or all evil, everyones mixed; heroes are flawed, villains believe they are doing the right thing, etc.
@RNG Stalinium why the hell would the US army be sponsoring films? i believe u meant hollywood and/or american writers/directors. platoon the reader winter soldier the kill team casualties of war standard operating procedure taxi to the dark side road to guatanamo my lai i could go on. but i wont. but i could. americans arent afraid to criticize our government, thats the beauty of free speech baby. china should REALLY start learning about it and adopting it.
you never read many foreign fictions, its not just an american thing to have gary stus, it happens in any country that writes stories. its understandable since most Americans see things from their perspective so they only think americans created these tropes.
If Wolf Warrior is meant to be a warning to the rest of the world, then it must be said: We're not listening. The reputation of the Chinese government for propaganda and general appalling action has made the world- especially Western audiences- uninterested in modern Chinese cinema, with the exception of Hong Kong cinema. So, in the end, its just China boasting the strength of China....to China. The Central State Echo Chamber. Nevertheless, it was educational to learn a Chinese perspective on cinema and history's effect on popular culture.
+Coda Mission We DON'T need propaganda to know that the Chinese government is evil. The funny thing is that so is every other government on Earth. European governments are trying to ethnically cleanse their native populations, the U.S. government is literally ARMING terrorists around the globe (Al-Qaeda, MEK, Jandala, FSA, PKK, Al-Nusra etc). Even the Islamic terrorist groups in CHINA are being funded by Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the UNITED STATES. Don't make the mistake of aligning yourself with any government. They ALL want to enslave or replace you.
Not only that, but take into acount, China has NEVER won a war, never have they EVER had tactical intellect, nor actually performed well against any sort of conflict, inner or otherwise, every strategy their history seems to show is that they literally SWARM their enemies with their own men considering their high population density to attack and think numbers might get them somewhere. This is not parody, read into every war the chinese have come to have and you will the amount of men they deploy in ANY conflict and you will see the staggering number of losses.
@@nickname8619 China's actions against the Tibetans have been defined as a genocide by the U.N.'s own definition and it is IDENTICAL to what Merkel and Macron are doing to the native populations of their countries so *yes* it is a *genocide*.
@@andersrobertsen7610 So you are fully on board with the U.S. government driving down working class wages through mass immigration? I hate to break it to you but there is no "we" when it comes to Washington DC. They DON'T consider you part of their team.
I really started to notice that in the Ip Man movies. I enjoyed them, but although they were set in times when external powers did some wrong to the Chinese people, the "bad guys" (most of the foreigners) were so stereotypically bad, that it came off more like a fantasy story.
you want some real life examples of that "stereotypically bad" stuff? just go look at all the bigoted comments on youtube itself. or hell, the video mentions the burning of the summer palace; it was also looted extensively before that, too. worth reading. now, "let's extinct an entire species of animal species so we can genocide a human ethnicity" sounds ridiculous, but it actually happened; there are one-dollar-coins out there that say "one dead buffalo one dead indian."
@@youtubevoice1050 it's called "white supremacy." the cruelty _is_ the point. they do it because they can. he and other racists saw chinese people (among others) as less than human, and so they do it. and every day, people in our world continue to do it, because they can. not even that they can get away with it (although it does embolden them) but because they believe we're less than human. (twister wasn't even that good an example because he showed ip man a little respect by the end)
@Jiyang Li. Ruthless people like that can be found in every country. The weak justifications they make don't really matter either, those are just lies and excuses for their immoral behavior. But "white supremacy" plays directly into that. It's an equally racist prejudice that is being promoted. It has always been supremacy of the powerful and greedy over everybody else. The majority of people are not like that and have no real power, nor would they want to do these horrible things. But that is where lies and propaganda and "we versus them" narratives come into play. Unfortunately these lies and narratives can blind those who don't pay attention. It has happened everywhere during the whole history of humanity.
@@youtubevoice1050 no, you are wrong. _i_ want to do those things, even though I will never be white. white supremacy is too rewarding for us not to engage. Examine what you like, what you love, what you hate, and the people you love that you don't know. It's there.
This was amazing! Especially the Drunken Master II portion. I LOVE that film and I've always enjoyed it's message about fighting injustice, but I've never thought of the impact it would have to a person who is actually from China. Just another layer for an already awesome flick. Also I've never seen Drunken Master II with subtitles, but I've almost got it memorized with the English dubs. Lol. The dialogue seems to be much different translated in the dub version, but it is still really good. Thanks for posting this. Educational and entertaining!
i remember during the 2008 Beijing olympics, the air was filled with so much nationalism it made first grade me gag. So much talk about being the best country in the world when in the same year there was the milk scandal and Wunchuan 8.9 earthquake. Long story short i'm now in Canada, watching a video on "patriotism" in chinese cinema
During a natural disaster nationalism is things like a hardware store owner handing out tools to anyone who walks past in the hopes it can save another one of their countrymen, guys in 1000 dollar suits covered in dirt sleeping on the sidewalk because they have just worked themselves to exhaustion trying to clear rubble, students marching out of schools to help their people anyway they can or soldiers evacuating a hospital by carrying the patients out on their backs. In comparison, waving plastic flags and cheering because its time to cheer feels very, very cheap.
@@jimboblordofeskimos yeah, that earthquake was the most traumatizing day of my life. It happened in the exact city i was in. it was a monday and i stayed home because i was sick and that probably saved my life because during the earthquake many elementary schools collapsed. every other building held, even the old ones. only the new elementary schools completely collapsed because they used cheap materials. when parents protested and demanded to know who authorized the constructions of those schools they were arrested and silenced. Anything to do with that earthquake (deaths, schools, arrests, etc.) has been censored in China. it's one of the driving forces behind my family's decision to leave. Oh yeah and also, very soon after the earthquake many places held fundraising and such to help. Great, right? wrong. none of the "fundraised" money even made it to my city, all went directly into party member pockets. This is why it took my family so long to start donating anything to charities after leaving. What you described is what nationalism should be, China's is fake. (Felt empty watching the olympics after losing some friends to a crashing elementary school)
@Alex Mercer I'm not sure if I'm reading this wrong but I'm not saying China is better, I live in Canada and it's not miserable here at all. Also nationalism isn't bad, it's just China's nationalism is wrong. In all my years living there I was never taught what communism meant (that all were supposed to be equal - which is clearly a lie). I brought up the earthquake because of the response that it was met with. All the praising the government and they wouldn't pay for safe schools, and when parents questioned why their kids were dead they were silenced. Of course I'm aware that there are places worse than China (North Korea being pretty obvious). I'm just pointing out my own experiences and how much I hate their fake nationalism created by a lifetime of lies and propaganda
@@megancress1384 how can you say nationalism is good except (insert some country's nationalism)? I found American nationalism revolves around "respect your rights as US citizens, we kill the baddies, but either you are for us or against us."
Central idea of this essay seems to be this: true Patriotism is not hatred against other countries and isolationism but loving your own country and learning from the past mistakes to improve upon them. Good message not only for governments but for individuals.
It's people like you that helped me mature and realize that seeing one bad part of a community doesn't abstract its entirety. There's always a fair share of bad blood in every country.
It's the toxic vengeful unforgiving kind of patriotism. Unfortunately it's not just in the films but it's also translated into real life to how some Chinese view their neighbors and the west.
@Aless. Lom. That's false equivilancy. The US has a problem with racism, white supremacy, and a dumb president, but those aren't representative of the majority of Americans. At the end of the day, Americans are diverse and have the ability to self-reflect and question their own country. There are shallowed American movies but there are also introspective movies that have criticisms for America. That is something the Chinese just can't do.
@@dorewan92 We've got worse problems with black supremacy not white supremacy. White supremacists are borderline extinct. Black supremacists can openly be racist and hateful and get away with it.
@@tastycookiechiplol are you fucking serious? How many "black supremacists"shot up a white church? How many "black supremacists" held protests chanting jews won't replace them and murdered counterprotesters with a car? FUCKING NONE. ALL OF THAT SHIT WAS DONE BY WHITE NATIONALIST DEGENERATES. Get out of your little fantasy land.
I think the essence of patriotism is just to be proud of one's geographic origin and to have confidence in the culture of that region. No matter where we are from, there is always something to be proud of there in terms of history, customs or natural environment. It annoys me when some people condemn all forms of patriotism as if it's better to hate yourself and be ashamed of your history, while at the same time embracing everything foreign as being better by definition. While keeping an open mind, pride and confidence can be very rational.
I think warwolf is just commercial movies, although it has a great success. I don't expect this movie to be a high quality patriotism movies. I agree with your point that China needs to keep improving itself without so many movies like this just to simply comfort its people, but the sentence "犯我中华者虽远必诛" doesn't sound wild to me, I would say it's a cherished spirit treasure for all Chinese people to protect your country and be brave enough to keep its sovereignty, just like people of last generation did before.
I visited Beijing during the 2008 Olympics and at a lot of historical sites you had a lot of these empty pedestals and if you read the signs, or listened to your audio tour guide it mentioned how so and so statue(often of the Buddha) was stolen, or lost during the Anglo-French Expedition(Second Opium War).
FFS, the Opium Wars were over one hundred years ago. If China wants to hold onto historical grudges endlessly toward an entire race, it shouldn't complain if its former vassal states demand to hold it accountable for its past bad behavior. It's also silly for China to blame all of its problems on foreigners. The reason China fell behind may have something to do with the massive civil wars it fought where literally tens of millions of people were killed and much of the country was destroyed. (Yes, foreigners played a role in these wars, but it would be delusional to blame them all on foreigners.) One thing the West and China have in common is that ninety-nine percent of their worst problems are internal.
Mao killed more people with his retarded great leap forward than all those wars combined. China being a shithole nowadays is entirely the fault of China itself.
It's easy for you to say that it ended hundred of years ago. WW2 ended decades ago and you still flutter your feathers saying USA carried the war. It's not only just a war. It's a war that led to more than a century of humiliation for China. Most of China's problem, from the Sino-Japanese wars, warlords, even the founding of communism in China, was due to the Opium War.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 You're proving my point. Viewing things this way, China gets to blame all of its problems on bad things foreigners did over one hundred fifty years ago.
I think Wolf Warrior fits into the standard story niche of the "feel good" story. It's not about exploring complex issues, it's about feeling good about oneself and ones nation. Drunken Master fills the same niche, it's just better at it. In short, the take I get from the two films is that one had a better directing and writing team than the other, lol. Nothing wrong with that, it just is.
Great analysis. I found myself addicted and watched through all your videos starting with this as the first some time last year. I haven't subscribed to a channel in a long time, but your channel on top of my radar. Keep up the great content and thanks again for your work.
Great essay outlining the hubris of pride and national sentiment as it relates to history and the stories we tell a generation. Masterful work here, friend.
To understand the Chinese patriotism in media, you have to understand the 100 years of shame. It's a very natural response. I make no judgement on whether or not it's an acceptable response, but just that it's natural. As a Chinese-American, I honestly feel the same way about Chinese Patriotism as I do about American Patriotism in media. While they are equally cringe worthy to me, to the rest of America, one is seen as acceptable and the other is criticized for being poor taste.
The movie Wolf Warrior was collaborated with Chinese Army. So just like Tom Cruise's Top Gun, it is basically a military propaganda movie. In the beginning no one predicted its success, because we had too many such movies that no one liked to watch. It had little show times among cinemas during the first weeks. But it just got so popular among the viewers, and cinemas added screen time for it. So I guess the fact is people really buy into patriotism, no matter it is Top Gun or Wolf Worrier, as long as it is good movie.
I have no problem with Patriotism as long as it focus on the beauty of their own country, instead of trying to make other countries look like shits so that their country may look bettter.
If we look at Superman, Wonderwoman, Spiderman etc, they are slowly fading away from that US flags colour, a sign that people are tired of the US propaganda.
I read the American Snipper and Chris Kyle was even more arrogant and unapologetic about the stuff he did Then I watched the film even the director clint Eastwood who isn't exactly known for being a liberal progressive globalist had the sense to tone it down by a fair bit
When you are weak, you worship the ideology of "be humble and never cease to learn and improve". When you become strong, you praise yourself by forcing others to worship you and your ideologies. Patriotism itself is a self-conflicting concept, as to be patriotic you must love your own country more than other countries. This is quite common in American ideology where America first is a base for American patriotism. The question here is, ... is it wrong to be Patriotic? Or even more, is it wrong for Chinese to be Patriotic? Maybe, the most ideal way is to become strong and be humble at the same time? However, has any achieved this? After all, we are all humans, and history has taught us that all kingdom/nations go through this cycle and none can last forever.
"Is it wrong for Chinese to be Patriotic?" That question really hits me. When everyone tells you to be proud of your ethnicity and identity, but what should I be proud of?
@@rebeccaxia350 fuck that hits hard, for myself the duality of knowing your ancestors discovered the new world is immensely prideful and on the side of that coin was the genocide and enslavement of its peoples. Its real head scratcher aint it? Hopefully you've made more progress with it than I have.
I think this perfectly illustrates the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is a love for your country because of its culture, people, history, and practices, you love living in your country and want to make it even better so other people can live well too. It's all about how *you* feel about your own country and how *other people* can admire your efforts. Nationalism is pushing your country and identity onto others with no respect or tact, it's about bullying others to prove you're the best in the world to them. It's all about how *others* see your country and how *you* can feel like you're at the top of the world.
@@rebeccaxia350 It's not! Everyone should be patriotic . But the subtle difference is when patriotism goes to extremes it becomes nationalism. Chinese are being forced to being nationalistic by the ruling CCP. That's wrong
@@trent11ify Why _should_ we all be patriotic? By all means, work for the betterment of the institutions around you worth keeping and improving, but what group you find kinship with need not be solely determined by the narrative that the nation is centered around. A "country" in this context is a specific narrative, chosen from a select set of histories among its people, repeated and reinforced to keep itself substained, yet still not the collected sum of all the people it governs. It is a select _taught_ identity and "shared" history, for better and for worse. It can be both connecting, and oppressing, to it's citizens. If it connects you with something greater, then thats great! Yet, it neither will nor should be the "be-all end-all" point of connection that everyone should adhere to.
As an American this was really interesting.. Great job man! Also it's interesting you have Chinese-American legends like Bruce Lee, and Jackie Chan who have helped bond our cultures.
"Hero" is a great movie! :) I also liked a movie called "I Am Not Madame Bovary" and "Kung Fu Hustle"!. There's also many others, but I have to admit I haven't seen that many ...
Actually it is not the Chinese Han People who closed off the trade, it was the Man People of Qing Dynasty who closed it. The reason is they don’t want Han to rise against the govern of Man nobilities.
Chinese closed door policy started with the Ming dynasty, by the Han Chinese, based on Confucius culture. the Qing followed Confucius government system. both the Yuan (Mongol) and Qing (Manchu) dynasties were the more liberal dynasties of China, and vastly increased Chinese territories, where as Han dynasties were conservative (Confucius) and followed the pacifist route.
@@hzhang1228 the Yuan dynasty was initially a part of the greater Mongol empire led by the grandsons of Genghis Khan. Qing was a foreign ruling dynasty from Manchuria. Every Han person hates the Qing for their discriminatory policies like the horse tail hairstyle they subjected every men to have. The previous dynasties were more conservative, but it was during those eras that China does peak in power. Qin was the beginning if centralized rule in China, Han was a great period of expansion, commerce, Confucianism, and prosperity that every Chinese now is called a Han person, Tang also saw the expansion of the Silk Road and the flourishing of Buddhism in China that they even exported Buddhism and Chinese culture to other places like Japan. Ming was when many of the things you associate China with like the Great Wall (renovated and improved upon by Ming) and the Forbidden Palace was built. Also it was when Zheng He started his voyages. Also, Chinese don't really like foreigners at all, especially those to rule over them. No matter how "good" you think the Yuan and Qing can do to the Chinese, they will still reject these foreign rulers.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 none of what you said relates to the topic of China's closed door policy, nor does it counter what I said. I never mentioned ideological words like good or bad. I only stated facts as is. " Every Han person hates the Qing for their discriminatory policies like the horse tail hairstyle they subjected every men to have. " if every men were required to have it, it is not discriminatory. and every dynasty in China added their own flavor to the Chinese culture. claiming every Han Chinese hated the Qing is not only ignorant but downright illogical, if that were the case the Qing dynasty would have never happened. both the Yuan and Qing were Chinese dynasties, because they subjected to the mantle of the middle kingdom, the only way to rule China. civilizations are constantly growing with time. so it makes no sense saying one dynasty peaked in power unless the civilization then started to decline or was ended, both were not the case. the voyages by Zheng He were from a short liberal influence in the imperial court by the eunuchs, which was then shut down.
It is true. Ming dynasty was the one who closed off trade with the outside world. At one point they open up and allowed Zheng Ho to sail to far off places in the world but that changed after another Emperor took over.
I really enjoy the video you made. And I'm Chinese. For my generation, we can see that public opinion is moving in an increasingly radical direction. The culture we are spreading to is becoming more and more Western, emphasizing the tension of individuals and interests. Rather than being humble and restrained, and the media of both sides have not tried to educate. Instead, we continue to face each other, which is very regrettable. I hope that you can allow me to forward this video to the Chinese website.
There's actually a rule in the Censorship Bureau Guidelines that states specifically that "bad guys" must be purely bad and have no human qualities whatsoever. (I'm a filmmaker working in China right now so that's how I know) Great work on the channel! Keep em coming...
Yes because they tend to think whenever children and teenager do bad things it's aways under bad influence from media (violent games, stories , tv show), not because of bad parenting or education
@@danielhcdeath-eater258 lmao it's so funny since it's happening right now in china, a series was called out because it portrayed a girl leaving her rich adopted family to be with a humble firefighter saying that she is 'ungrateful' since her adoptive parents paid so much for her life, ignoring how the adoptive family has abused her and put down any of her achievement, even though she is a good surgeon, her life purpose is only marriage and her job as a doctor should only to make her look good and educated. In the original source novel she wasn't supposed to ever come back, but in the adaptation they make her come back to her parents and netizens in China still bashed it. Hahaha a part I hate from chinese series is how you need to unconditionally submit to your parents and forgive any of their wrongdoing ....
@Sigrun Eide I agree with Sigrun on the matter of the attack copters; but we can all admit the wheeled vehicles clearly look like Humvee ripoffs. They weren't even trying.
@@monsterboomer8051 because the thing they invented end up always get stolen dumb . If u cant beat them, join them. China invented tea leaves, gunpowder, silk clothe and the list go on. Their treasure was stolen and is now currently displayed in British museum Japan took insipiration of Chinese hanzi and in the end still invaded China , it's like a fking snake that u raised and that snake grow bigger and end up biting you. Communist was the only way for China to move forward, do u think China would have become this strong if they follow that beta Democracy route? You should be blaming Taiwan for losing the Chinese civil war , it's like blaming the victor for winning the war. Kuomingtan receive aids from US and still lost to that broken and worn down weapon used by the communist party. People like u love to use the word "CCP" without knowing the history behind it other thn tianameng masscre and the great famine by MaoZedong.
@@mrunethical7976 did you just admit that you are proud to be a copycat forever? China didn't even improve stuff that they stole. When gunpowder copied by Western power, they try to make it stronger bigger and better. And tell me, did pre-WW 2 china managed to copycat it in time?
Don't usually comment on video essays although I watch them a lot but I have to say you really bring out a new side/ take on film I've never really looked or thought about too much! Thanks man!
Fantastic analysis. I've loved the film Druken Master 2 for so many years now, but like most of the Chinese cinema I have watched, I have mostly been interested in the action, choreography and stuntwork and paid little attention to the actual plot or theme of the film.
Forgive me really, but from personal experience, it amazes me that a Chinese can actually be so very objective in matters related to China. I must say, this guy deserves respect. He reasons both in and out of the box.
Did anyone see the movie wandering earth? Its a chinese movie about saving the earth. In that movie all nations work together, would it have been a hollywood movie then only america worked alone
it would've been more realistic for an international threat response organization to include more than just Americans. problem is you would have people who would be pissed off about "forced diversity". "wow, Chinese in Pacific Rim? REEE!!! wow, Chinese & Indian superheroes in Marvel comics? Outrageous!"
sounds like every alien invasion / zombie movie ever. they might as well take a paint brush and cover all the other nations in the world and only leave USA on the globe.
It also feels slightly scifi in my opinion. Unlike American war movies whose can draw from the images and experiences of wars in iraq and afghanistan, the PLA has never fought a modern war, so it all just feels really fake and futuristic.
well the PLA has no reason to start (over 50)wars and glorifying them in media. and i think thats kinda the point, a "what if" the PLA went to war with some other country
For every jingoistic Patriotic movie that comes out of there, there is usually a film to counterbalance it. Everyone thought American Sniper was a pro-American propaganda film, but in retrospect, it and movies like it could be considered anti-war based on interpretation.
I just discovered your channel and it's really great! I'm a filmmaker that's been living in China for a year and I'm a big fan of Hong Kong cinema but your channel has really helped me realise why modern mainland Chinese cinema leaves me feeling cold.
The other issue that you didn't address, is that a lot of Chinese patriotic movies are pro Authoritarian. Like the amazing Jet Li movie, Hero, ends with him accepting the brutal conquest of the Qin emperor, as long as it unites China. I doubt that message plays well for Tibetans, uyghurs, or people in Hong Kong. I love the movie for its acting, Direction, and amazing visual design and production values, but the ending always leaves me feeling a bit dirty for loving the movie so much. It's almost like people who watched Song of the South, or Birth of a Nation, just for the Cinematic qualities, despite the terrible implications of the story
Except do you know what happens when China is not in a centralized rule historically? Chaos. Warlords start popping up everywhere. The Chinese revolution that created the Republic of China eventually was fractured to different warlords and ended in a civil war along with a foreign invasion. And most of the time, it was the peasants that makes the biggest mess in China. Liu Bang and Xiang Yu, famous Chinese rebel leaders, were formerly peasants. The Ming fell due to peasants, as well as the Tang dynasty. Han faced a large peasant rebellion as well, throwing the realm to chaos, and later subjected to war amongst its many warlords. Qing fell due to those same peasant problems as well that spawned the Republic of China, as well as the CCP being formed by peasants as well initially
When he talks about the Chinese having nothing to learn at the end because the protagonist having no struggle, and then he shows Ip Man as an example, I had to disagree. In the first Ip Man, the main theme is to always value family and country first. Ip Man could've taken the deal and taught Japanese occupying forces his kung fu, but it would've meant betraying his country just to save his own hide. At the fight in the end, it was cleatly biased because it's Ip Man, and of course he was going to win because he's the superior fighter, but that's not what it was about. It wasn't about winning, and he was never meant to win to begin with. There was a much larger conflict going internally, and that was either he becomes a coward like the master he was sparring with in the beginning, who died for bags of rice, or he stands against the Japanese to prevent them from getting even the smallest inkling of leverage over China. He chose the latter.
In the first film it is about no matter how strong you are, you cannot reverse history ending with ip man getting shot in the head. in the second film, Ip man promotes patriotism despite fighting an unfair battle he went on beating his enemy. Ip man three probably the worst ip man film, but the message is clear there are no winners in pointless fighting.
As far as I know there's lots and lots of great Chinese films about ancient days but not too many good Chinese films about modern day. Chinese filmakers seems to have more interests in heroism and patriotism than small stories happening in present time.
I really enjoy hearing about Chinese films from a Chinese perspective. It's not something we see a lot in the TH-cam Video essay genre. Also, I like the pacing of the video and your calm narration style.
And I like people with objective views.
@@LaNguyenBTong art doesn't have objective views? what?
@@Cheesuthebueno I'm talking about the guy who made this video. Even though he's Chinese, he still has unbiased opinions.
TH-cam is banned on China, everything the Chinese view online is heavily censored which is why we never hear about any of the awful shit they're doing. China is still a communist dictatorship
Dalia B I really don't think the video maker's opinion reflect the mind of ordinary Chinese, but rather a Chinese immigrant with identity crisis mistakenly fantasying himself being at the receiving end of the so called "China threat". To some extent, I feel sorry for this guy
I like how in certains Chinese films, there is always a psycothic japanese guy who commits brutal acts, and a wise general that is aware what might happen if China awakes.
well there is a lot of tension between the two since world war 2 and both would portray each other in negative lights
That actually sound kinda similar to the dynamic of Tora Tora Tora, and American film about the lead up to Pearl Harbor, where the Zealous Japanese Military forces the hand of a wise and reserved Admiral for is fearful of the "Sleeping Giant" that America could be. Dont know if its coevolution, one being inspired from the other, or both being at least mildly propagandistic
@@jazzydino7623 + Why do you defend china?
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 im not im just saying both sides portray each other in negative lights but mostly china does it
Can you blame them? There's still tensions and Japan is trying to become an empire again. Just look at the Rape of Nanking and Civil War.
CORRECTIONS:
Druken Master II was released in 1994, not 1961. (Thanks to commenter AICW)
Fearless was released in 2006, not 1995. (Thanks to commenter Gyan Lee)
Pardon me for a sec, but are you Chinese?
@@mr.normalguy69 I'm a Chinese Immigrant.
@@AccentedCinema Love your work, keep it up! 不过作为一个在加拿大生活了12年的华人（准备回流中），白人的自大的懒惰也是你无法想象的。否则怎么会被金砖如此追赶而惶恐？
@@AccentedCinema Just found you by chance man, and your reviews are excellent. Can't wait to see more from your channel!
Again prefer the old school man...
A very valid criticism! Chinese reviewers often criticized the crass Americanism in Hollywood flicks and yet the local movie industry now commits the same mistake...
The Wandering Rey
It’s funny because patriotism and nationalism in Hollywood is pretty much dead now. One thing that Hollywood holds over Chinese cinema is America’s diverse culture. Different faces and skin color and different stories to tell. Something China doesn’t have.
It's not the same mistake but it's even worse. I think what really caused this is that Chinese patriotism is predominantly based on the antagonization of the west, which is a communism and cold war hangover. The Chinese directors need to realise this problem and change the way Chinese patriotism works by changing the focus to the appreciation of Chinese art, philosophy, culture and history instead of warmongering contents like the communist movies in the old days.
It is possible to make a patriotic action movie without aggression towards the world. For example, although Kingsman is about the protagonist beating up bad guys, I've never felt any aggression towards the world, what I really felt about the movie is the appreciation of British history and culture.
@@tristanlau1213 Chinese culture has been traditionally all about inward/domestic stuff, while Western culture has been seeking for the exotic (especially true during the Romantic era). Many European operas and plays, for example, explores either the exotic cultures or panders towards ancient myths (which is also exotic compared to their Judeo-Christian culture), while Chinese operas and plays traditional folklore and legends.
As a lover of Chinese cinema, I don't find those anti-Western thoughts to be hindering my movie watching experience just like I don't roll my eyes when the "America saves the day" theme plays in Hollywood. It's quite unique. Doing anything different than that would be just ruining the genre, in my opinion.
I know Hollywood is steering away from the Uncle Sam knows best kinda of movie. However, I don't think whatever Hollywood is doing to try raise awareness on imperialism in their movies isn't as effective as what Chinese and Hong Kong cinemas had done. It's just much more meaningful seeing the dangers of imperialism from a victim of imperialism rather than the oppressor themselves.
@Cyo Rui Competition?
I mean, have you seen Operation Red Sea? It just takes Hollywood visuals of middle eastern terrorism and puts in Chinese government heroes.
Have you considered, instead of "countering," making better movies.
@Aless. Lom. This would be a better critique if Chinese cinema weren't exactly the same (sometimes worse), even copying Hollywood stereotypes.
This is why I was so surprised and delighted at the end of _Fearless,_ when the Japanese fighter concedes at the end seeing that he had been bested. The message, that the honor between warriors transcends national boundaries, was so powerful and it remains one of my favorite scenes.
I think that film did a relatively good job of portraying people as representative of, but ultimately seperate from their nations.
Literally the only Japanese antagonist portrayed as a human being in Chinese films.
If not the only one, who else?
@@cyborgchicken3502 Ip Man was pure propaganda. I didn't like it.
@@youn00ber propaganda in films dates back to its earliest inception as a medium, it's always existed, if one just does a bit of research you'll find films from the 1930s even that had propaganda in them... It's unfortunately part of it sometimes, which is why when it came to a movie like Ip Man, I just chose to watch it for the martial arts 😁
@@cyborgchicken3502 the propaganda in Ip Man was too distracting for me to engage with the film. Also, the serious nature of the story clashes will the exaggerated martial arts.
I also think it's pretty dodgy to portray a recent historical figure as something completely different or to stage some made up story. Ip man was a police officer before and after the war, and didn't beat ten men in a karate competition. The film is kung fu fetishism mixed with historical propaganda. Down to including the most stereotypical image of a Japanese person possible, with those round glasses commonly used in propaganda posters.
Huo Yuanjia (if I got that right) or ''Fearless'' was a better film in comparison. I can't talk about the historical accuracy because idfk, but at least it didn't feel like full on propaganda and its main character wasn't portrayed as a Jesus like figure who can do no wrong.
@@youn00ber The character of Masao Kadokawa, a Sgt in the Imperial Japanese Army, in Chuan's City of Life and Death. Even his superior officer, who is arguably more of an antagonist, has a fair amount of dimension to him. That said, City of Life and Death is definitely an outlier.
This is a powerful commentary. As someone who is comfortable with American and Chinese culture, I can see every point you made. I was never fort able with patriotic films (from any origin), the extreme patriotism seem like a toxic cult.
I agree with you on the “...nothing to learn...” closing sentiment.
@@cyborgchicken3502
Weeeeh! Unfortunately, that's world we live in.
@@firstblessings8777 yup, the best way to elevate your own group of people is to dehumanize everyone
@@cyborgchicken3502
These negative stereotypes are caused by ignorance. More exposure to 'Other' (race, culture, countries) film will go a long way to shed these negative images. Netflix is a good start, but more still needs to be done.
Why is patriotism "toxic"? Wtf?
AmIgOltu tbh its not just dont shove it on everyone’s face
No idea how I got here, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Really would love to see more on your analysis on China, perhaps something about the Chinese psyche and how it is portrayed in film? Keep it up.
Agreed!
Do you know what the Chinese government does to their political prisoners? Are you naive or just hypocritical?
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 America is no different but for some reason when evil easterners do it its bad when America does it it's patriotic.
@@Petey0707 + Yup, you're a dumbfuck Progressive.
@@Petey0707 + Or a Russian troll. No difference between the two.
Dude you put Drunken Master II's date as 1961? Jackie Chan was only 7 years old at that time haha.
It's 1994. I messed that up bad, lol.
Hey... you are 11 years too early on Fearless. It came out in 2006.
Stfu it's a honest mistake you don't need bash him for the hard work he did he made one mistake dont act like your perfect we all make mistakes.
@@Cardo2Suave04 dude chill
@@gmoney8806 I am chill
The "nothing to learn" reminds me of Wu Peifu, a chinese warlord in the early 1900s. He believed China would never need to learn from other countries. When China got cars and airplanes he would justify it as something that has always been chinese because "prototype aeroplanes and automobiles were invented in ancient China".
They wuz Kangz too
"he would justify it as something that has always been Chinese because "prototype aeroplanes and automobiles were invented in ancient China"
Wu Peifu Indian cousin: th-cam.com/video/TqqWL1NowyE/w-d-xo.html
it sound like what Indian do tho
LOL, you kind of see that in those Chinese HMMVV knock-offs. Of course, there were Eurocopter Dauphins (Z-9) and Tigers (Z-9Ws), but those are licensed to Harbin by the Europeans. Nevermind, they have been invented in Tang Dynasty anyway.
This kind of delusion plagues India too.
This dialogue from Drunken Master 2 " our future generations might have to go abroad just to see Chinese national treasures" resonates a lot with me because as a Indian most of our national treasures are in the British national museum 😢
I feel you with this. the only and most iconic and cultural relic of my place is literally all the way in Chicago of all places :((
You still have many treasures in India, your national museum in New Delhi is incredible and filled with amazing history. The buddha relics, the chola bronze and the Kohinoor. I absolutely loved it!
@@RobespierreChelsea that's true but still many of the ancient idols are still in other countries. For example during our Prime minister's visit to USA he was gifted around 10 ancient relics which were taken from India. Recently Australia send back some ancient idols which were taken from India as a gesture of goodwill. There are also atleast one news everyday about ancient idols being found underground. A lot of the history of my country has either been stolen or buried thanks to islamic and British invasions 😢
As a Mexican most of ours were melted down and turned into gold coins for the Spanish and pur city’s destroyed to build colonial towns in a Spanish way
Saw a clip in reddit r/HolUp:
You know how when you get robbed, you never see your stuff again...
Apparently there is a place in London where you can go and see all the stuff that's been taken.
- okay, so we just got to the British Museum... funny and sad at the same time...
Heres an idea for a movie.
WW3, China and NATO are at war. During some heavy fighting a Chinese and western soldier are left together at the bottom of a mine shaft. Their legs are broken, out of ammo, guns destroyed and cant reach eachother with their knives. So, using a small tablet computer to translate they start talking. And the movie is about the journeys these two have taken to get to this point. And the realization that, whoever wins the fighting directly above them, will likely rescue one and kill the other.
This sounds interesting, but for some reason I feel like I've heard about the same premise before
This would work if not for the fact most Chinese can read english...
@@marwapranata5698 Yeah there was a movie like that called No Man's Land
@@marwapranata5698 I think it's similar to the premise of Enemy Mine.
Alex W S Chan English is not the only language spoken in “the west”, though it is one of the most prolific. The western soldier could be from anywhere in Europa or the Americas. Personally, I’d like to see one from Iceland or a Spanish speaking country, if only for the sake of ancestral pride.
As western, I think being portrayed as a buffon villain that is defeated "because we are the good ones" is annyoning, but in the film of the Drunken Master I definetly side with the chinnese pov. Same with american films. (i am not from usa). If they fight against buffons, I drop the movie, but if the villain is as interesting as the "good ones" i side with the good ones.
A hero is only as good as their villain. Lame villain, lame hero.
@@steverogers8163 Bingo. Heroism and great feats are worthless against incompetent/worthless villains.
Unrevelant but your profile pic brings me sadness...just like mine.
@@huytungnguyen119 Denise Milani? She looks great, yeah.
@@RicochetForce Oh apologies, I was refered to Rah's profile pic which is a character I like. But yours is nice too.
0:51 completely correct. The speech in Independence Day is about being proud of an achievment in the past (gaining independence), the Chinese movie sounds more like a threat to potential opposition.
It's kinda more than that. It compares that past achievement to the current challenge and concludes that while once again the American people are fighting for their freedom this time they don't do it alone and also they are not fighting for their independence but for their lives. That speech was designed for uniting people and if I was in that spot having to deliver a speech rallying troops from all corners of the world I'd opt for something similar. That's also why most of these American movies are still kinda enjoyable even for non-Americans and people with mixed feelings about US World Dominance.
That Chinese speech was pure cringe and would at best cause foreigners to feel antagonized by it. But I think this sends an even stronger message to the Chinese themselves: Stick out and you'll be cut down. With "Patriotic" displays like this China basically causes itself being perseived to be the "bad guy". The path this entire Nation went down recently also bears very close similarities to the Rise and ultimate fall of Imperial Japan - with the ending probably being very similar. Even with 1.4 Billion people you can't fight the entire world, especially not if you're depending on trade.
Anyone who opposes the spirit of chairman mao will be sentenced to shit movies and knock off plastic shit
How? These movies are literally about the past and how they overcame white supremacy.
As a Non-North American, I and plenty of people I know have always found the Murican jingoistic shit in a movie just as cringy and nauseating as I imagine Wolf-Warrior to be. I hated Independence Day.
@@thegtafanboy You sir, are a moron.
Lots of.anti foreigner movies out in China.
Problem is. They are not very good movies. Instead of focussing on good stories they simplify the narrative into nationalist propaganda.
Even the past propaganda movies had some character development. Now they dont really even bother. They just follow a simple 90's formula that doesnt cut it in this day and.age.
It's always the case that movie turn out bad when it's more about using the movie as a vehicle for political agendas rather than strong story and making a good movie first.
But you gotta admit the producers are smart. These movies turned out to be a lot more popular and made a lot more money than some of the best written films.
Rickard Johansson my problem with this is when he shows a movie like that, westerners instantly think this is propaganda pushed by the centralised authoritarian government. When in reality, this is simply a fuck up.
Every one of these movies’ scripts gets a hard time passing the media department because it’s actually somewhat against the message the government is trying to push. But released anyway as dumb fun.
Many military people don’t like it either because it “defaces the image of the PLA” by glorifying what the actual military consider as negative traits.
The only people who really like it are some nationalistic ordinary people which China has plenty of.
Really, this series’ commercial success owns to the nationalism amongst (frankly delusional) ordinary working class people.
because the government love these shit and they help promote it .
jack lee given the current level of nationalist sentiment in China, I highly doubt the government need to make much effort to promote this type of film
You laid your point out so expertly! Great video!
I wonder what the hell was uri boyka doing in Chinese propaganda film
Whats up RC, didn't think I'd see you here lol
"This is a warning directed to the rest of the world"
>Nobody watches
You are damn right. lol
可是就没有人注意这部电影是外部势力入侵么？军人的职责就是保家卫国，这样的事情曾经在边境线上发生，为什么觉得这是对其他国家的警告？
@@叶子-q2w The perception of desecration by the ruling government of Mainland China depends on their interests and not the interests of the Chinese nation as a whole. Even if something is good for China, as long as it's not good for the Communist Party, is considered desecration.
@@EzekielDeLaCroix ？？？
@Tejas Misra 电影中军队从没有过界，以至于跑了一个人也没抓，这部电影一方面告诫国人居安思危，另一方面是震慑宵小之辈（非国家性质的组织），毕竟在我们军力不强的时候，那些强国的政府或者是组织是如何对待我们的你可知？这些永远的写在历史里面了。
The chinese narative is so interesting. On one hand, a large fertile land, centuries of wisdom, mesmerising beauty. On the other, an troubled nation, hauntes by trauma and resentment, who struggles with identity.
A country with long history always brings trouble. Unlike the USA... Since they are there there is always big trouble
8 out of 10 biggest battle in the world is fought on china. The top 2 is both ww1 and ww2, the latter even fought on china too. This basically gave us an insight on what kind of turbulent nation china was / is. Majority of their history is them slaughtering and enslaving eachother while the most recent of their history involved then getting massacred and conquered by multiple foreign powers.
世界总是复杂的，如果你觉得你的国家不美丽，那是应为你看的还不够多，如果你觉得你的国家永远一片祥和，那是因为这个国家活的还不够久，，时间会让事情变得丰富。。
@Fei Long 黄飞龙 you forgot about the mongolian and the manchus? both are pretty much foreign invaders and you are conquered by them for over hundred of years. Han chinese are even forced by the manchus to cut their hair in Queue style as a mark of their submission to the qing dynasty.
@@sunshineskystar well that was in the past, as u know the mongols never rest because war is the only way for them to exist considering their environment. Now the mongols work for the han chinese since the current meta isn't about miltary war.
I agree with you. There is a huge difference between nationalism and patriotism. Excessive nationalism leads to arrogance and arrogance leads to eventual downfall. Patriotism on the other hand is to admit our faults, to learn from it, and to continually improve and better ourselves.
I remember I watched a patriotic about Chinese fighting with Japanese in WW2, and a part really impressed me depicted a Japanese soldier, who was always fascinating about China's geography and culture, sketching the mountains all the way with the march, eventually died by fighting with Chinese army. Though Japanese won the battle at the end, that soldier's death made the whole war absurd and meaningless, criticized the injustice of Japanese govt. at the most, sending a more powerful message. Maybe that's a little out of topic, but I want to say over-simplified enemies also make patriotism without depth, patriotism should be about how to innovate our nation, rather than just beat the shit out of your enemies.
you remember the name of the film?
Sounds like a nice film to watch. Sauce?
"The City of Life and Death" if I'm not mistaken
@@WindyVinzy thankyou FireRabbit
I think it's just that many old movies don't oversimplify the enemy, but the IJA itself is too stereotyped.
For example, if Palestine still exists 50 years later, how would it describe today's IDF? I think it would be very similar to the Japanese army described in those old Chinese movies, like a cannibal running out of a mental hospital
So in other words, Chinese cinema has its own Mary Sues.
Government sponsored Mary Sue's.
@@mr.kenway4554 Which is worse.
Wow, I never thought of it that way. That's so true.
sounds like american movies about the middle east and germans to me.....
Even more so with the sequel.
Oh, that's exactly what that shit is. When he was describing the aspects of those Chinese patriotism movies I was insstantly reminded of all these aggrandizing jingoism free for alls that pop up here at home on a regular basis. Our worship of our military and belief that the soldiers and military do no wrong and deserve ONLY support is insane.
@@RicochetForce Hollywood war movies are a mixed bag. Some of them are just dumb pro-America films, like Sniper and the Transformers movies. Some look like pro-war movies, but are actually pro-military and anti-war at the same time, like Black Hawk Down, and some have complicated messages, like Saving Private Ryan.
What the video writer said though is the key: it's okay to have a patriotic movie, but the difference between patriotism and propaganda is that a patriotic movie recognizes the flaws in a nation, and tries to show people how they can grow and improve, while a propaganda film just says "we're already perfect, and we don't need to be better."
@@Carakav Thanks for pointing out the nuance in his statement, and I absolutely agree about the fundamental difference there.
@@Carakav Dont see any even remotly anti War Message in Black Hawk down and saving Privat Ryan isnt complicated at all its just Murica f.... yea! f... the evil skin head( all Germans have shaved Heads in the Movie) nazi Germans. Sure the Protagonists have more weaknisses, thats to make them more relatable and building a strognger Contrast to the faceless, characterless(besides from being just totaly evil) Enemys.
I am an American. A few years ago, I took my first trip out of my nation: I went to London. The second day I was there, I visited the British Museum. I was stunned and awed at their collection of amazing artifacts and items. While walking through the Hall of Oriental Art, I was stopped by a gorgeous jade ring and paused a moment to admire its beauty. At the same time, a tour group came into the hall and I saw the Chinese flag on the tour guide's sign. A young Chinese woman walked up to the display and for a moment, we both looked at the ring. I wanted to say something to her, to reach out and make some connection. I simply said, "It's very beautiful." She turned to me and looked me dead in the eyes and said in her accented English, "It belongs to us."
That was the moment my American self-centered view of the world vanished and I realized the world is a lot different than I'd ever thought.
Your experience is much appreciated.
An interesting interaction
Rule Brittania. God bless America.
@@catzor4795lmao 😂
Somehow I wanna make it into movie
What a great channel you are creating. It's fascinating for me, a westerner, to see China through your perspective. Thank you and keep it up.
6:50 "You wanna know what I fight for ? Money"
My new favorite movie line ever.
That line in the script was just an attempt to land a hit on the enamy capitalism
@@hendrikschluter959 It makes sense though, alot of people go into the military with the promise of decent salary. Hell isn't that one of the main hooks recruiters use to persuade people to enlist?
I like the fact that half the vehicles in a movie about how great chinas military is are just copies of western models.
I thought the same damn thing, too. Their attack helicopters look like Apache's, their standard vehicles look like Humvees, and their weapons, well, no one really cares about their standard infantry weapons.... Many of their vehicles are just carbon-copies of American or Russian vehicles.
@@billyjohnson3674 Copy until you catch your technological backwardness then come with some new shit. The Russian maybe really russian because there is no embargo but the U.S one are surely copied because they can't buy from them.
@@billyjohnson3674 im not chinese to support chinese act because of patriotism but its so wise to copy a good and tested idea and cut research costs
But sometimes copied products may not fully meet your needs
if the number of copies exceed the original does it matter which one came first?
That humvee thing is a copy, but the Attack helicopter is half indigenous, Half Kamov
I completely forgot about the nationalist message in Drunken Master 2 and you're absolutely right about false sense of pride that leads to a country falling behind, I would think China having experienced the century of humiliation would be very aware of this. That said, I think these types of movies are meant to build up pride and identity among Chinese again instead of worshiping foreign media and physical products.
@@Surteronarto The CCP is not the worst thing to happen to China. It would not have been better if the Nationalists won. If they had China would be like Japan Taiwan or Korea, playing second fiddle and not allowed to be a potential superpower that it is today. I can't really excuse the CCP for failed policies like the cultural revolution or the great leap forward but I will say they weren't meant to be harmful at inception.
@@Surteronarto Ahhh yes. I guess it would be nice to have a country to sell drugs to doesn't it? Also guess why do you think communist "shit hole" got the support in China? Cuz when people are hungry they don't care about the capitalist "self-balancing" market and how it's suppose to be the only form of economic that works. They want food. And stable fucking lives. Which colonist/capitalism/democracy failed to provide for them at the time. It's hillarious how people would judge the hell out of China for choosing communism while completely ignoring the fact communism rose precisely because western countries and their glorious ideology made people's lives miserable.
@@stevenzhao3414 they don't realize the dirty deeds and exploitation that had to be done to make thpeir lives in the west comfortable or unwilling to admit it. Slavery seems to be the only one that gets talked about and the only one that needs to be felt sorry for apparently.
@@Drownedinblood slavery is the talked about because it's the one that hits home the most. Many African-Americans in America descended from former slaves. Also, the Civil War pits both Northeners and Southeners, literally a war against brothers. Not to mention it's quite a big deal that it requires a constitutional amendment to make slavery illegal.
Also, the US leaves a small footprint in terms of old-fashioned imperialism. Except for the Philippines, Guam, Puerto Rico, they don't plant any flags on other territories. Manifest Destiny was masked as national destiny for America to rule from era to shining sea, while economic neo-imperialism in Central and Latin American countries weren't as apparent and masked under both the Monroe Doctrine and anti-Communism.
@@stevenzhao3414 extremely well said, the vast majority of my fellow Americans, like I'm assuming John Jordan is, are completely ignorant and unable to understand sociopolitical and economic conditions in the nations that have been ravaged by the west. The neoliberal society that has blossomed in the West has completely white-washed history to the point where most people don't even realize that the U.S. is literally an imperial entity that does nothing but meddle in the affairs of other countries
So basically:
-Drunken Master 2: a well written hero.
-Wolf Warrior: a Gary Stu.
@Steven Hunt That's something even IP man latest film does too, making the antagonist a cartoon villain with no motivations or anything of the sort.
They are de-humanized and treated as the punching bag and nothing else.
im chinese, always thought wolf warrior had something wrong with it but couldnt rationalise it. i wholeheartedly agree with this
2:10.
Damn... it's moments like this that remind me: Jackie is not a fighter who can act, he's an actor who can fight.
The real reminder is that expressing sadness shouldn't be the only indication of acting. It can be very critical in comedic roles as well.
@@jp3813 Like you're crying over someone's fake "death" while its presented as a shameful death.
@@mr.kenway4554 Doesn't have to involve crying. Gene Wilder was very fun as Willy Wonka due to his great acting.
Loving your essays. As a Portuguese filmmaker I face the same lack of film identity and impulse to do Hollywood knock offs, as there are few Portuguese films that are not either social class drama or crass comedies. Love the way you break down and analyze films, themes and culture. Congratulations and looking forward to seeing more essays and movies by you.
Loving these video essays! Impressed by how you bring up the issue in such an eloquent way and bring in your perspective. Love from Hong Kong.
So nice that you added captions. there’s a huge deaf community so I’m glad you made your video accessible
One of my friends, who is American-born Chinese put it very simply: "A lot of these films and TV dramas about the war demonize foreigners and especially the Japanese. It's not a positive message to purvey." This sort of "Patriotism" is only a hindrance and doesn't move China forward. I believe many of the younger generation realize this, but holding on to only that leaves no room for growth and creates a blackness in the hearts of the people. I'm not defending what the Japanese did, but does China really need to put out a new WWII TV drama every year with the same plot and the same "evil Japanese?"
Pretty much all Chinese made movie are blatantly propaganda in some form.
There are also a lot of them being CCP propaganda. To be honest though, sometimes I like to watch them since they have a nice story and diverse characters to back it up but it doesn’t really help with relations. In fact, I think it worsens it, especially with the Chinese that has never known much of the world or children. Japanese will be specifically targeted due to their war crimes. Funny enough, I heard a lot of Chinese actually go to japan for vacation.
You and your loved ones were not on the receiving end of the WW2 Japanese, of course, you can forget and forgive with hearts. I am not a fan of movies ridiculing or stereotyping Japan, but at least I understand where the Chinese grudges came from. Someday the Chinese are going to put their old hatreds away, but you, I, we, have to respect that it is their call, not ours. It is not up to us to tell them how they should handle their scars.
@@tianxiu As a Asian with BOTH heritage, I am getting sick and tired of the Chinese part of my family still holding a grudge. You don't hear the Mongol part of me bitching about the Khans
The reason Chinese people still focus this much on the Japanese war crime is that Japanese is trying to wipe this off their history books. If new generations of Japanese forget about the sorrow they brought to the world, who would guarantee this wouldn't happen again? On the contrary, Germans put their crimes into their history book and apologised for that! It's good to memorise the sorrows the war brought to us and why the war came, China was too weak to defend itself. However, I don't really agree with the values those TV dramas or The Wolf Warriors trying to express, evil people are not born evil, they turn evil for reasons! Devils on the Doorstep is actually a good China-Japan war movie, telling a story of kind people turning into monsters in the war.
What’s interesting is that both Chinese and American action films tend to rely HEAVILY on the “invincible male protagonist who can do no wrong and doesn’t need to learn anything” trope to carry the film.
I used to think that trope was only in American films but it looks like Chinese cinema has picked up that nasty habit too.
That’s very unfortunate.
While that is usually true, I believe there are a high number of "sacrificial heroes" in Western movies as well. I don't believe China would make movies such as The Wall (not to be confused with the Pink Floyd movie) and all those other anti-Vietnam movies.
china sucks at filmmaking. hollywood writers have learned how to make convincing heroes and villains: no one is all good or all evil, everyones mixed; heroes are flawed, villains believe they are doing the right thing, etc.
@RNG Stalinium why the hell would the US army be sponsoring films? i believe u meant hollywood and/or american writers/directors.
platoon
the reader
winter soldier
the kill team
casualties of war
standard operating procedure
taxi to the dark side
road to guatanamo
my lai
i could go on. but i wont. but i could.
americans arent afraid to criticize our government, thats the beauty of free speech baby. china should REALLY start learning about it and adopting it.
you never read many foreign fictions, its not just an american thing to have gary stus, it happens in any country that writes stories. its understandable since most Americans see things from their perspective so they only think americans created these tropes.
@@crazycat4211 r u talking at me? feels like u r but nothing u said applies to what ive said.
1:22
Jackie Chan was totally a full grown adult who was a master in all fighting types in 1961
you criticize patriotism with a careful and nuanced discussion. Very rare to find such a discussion on TH-cam about any kind of cinema. Well done.
This channel is great I love the mashup of older movies and historical knowledge you throw in. You’re awesome.
If Wolf Warrior is meant to be a warning to the rest of the world, then it must be said: We're not listening. The reputation of the Chinese government for propaganda and general appalling action has made the world- especially Western audiences- uninterested in modern Chinese cinema, with the exception of Hong Kong cinema. So, in the end, its just China boasting the strength of China....to China. The Central State Echo Chamber.
Nevertheless, it was educational to learn a Chinese perspective on cinema and history's effect on popular culture.
+Coda Mission We DON'T need propaganda to know that the Chinese government is evil. The funny thing is that so is every other government on Earth. European governments are trying to ethnically cleanse their native populations, the U.S. government is literally ARMING terrorists around the globe (Al-Qaeda, MEK, Jandala, FSA, PKK, Al-Nusra etc). Even the Islamic terrorist groups in CHINA are being funded by Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the UNITED STATES. Don't make the mistake of aligning yourself with any government. They ALL want to enslave or replace you.
@@nickname8619 I think so,
That being said, I'm American, I don't care what we do, I'm supporting my country.
Not only that, but take into acount, China has NEVER won a war, never have they EVER had tactical intellect, nor actually performed well against any sort of conflict, inner or otherwise, every strategy their history seems to show is that they literally SWARM their enemies with their own men considering their high population density to attack and think numbers might get them somewhere. This is not parody, read into every war the chinese have come to have and you will the amount of men they deploy in ANY conflict and you will see the staggering number of losses.
@@nickname8619 China's actions against the Tibetans have been defined as a genocide by the U.N.'s own definition and it is IDENTICAL to what Merkel and Macron are doing to the native populations of their countries so *yes* it is a *genocide*.
@@andersrobertsen7610 So you are fully on board with the U.S. government driving down working class wages through mass immigration? I hate to break it to you but there is no "we" when it comes to Washington DC. They DON'T consider you part of their team.
The conclusion is perfect, especially the clips you chose. Thanks for this
1:37 me and my cousins used to mimic this scene lol. It takes me back.
aww
I really started to notice that in the Ip Man movies. I enjoyed them, but although they were set in times when external powers did some wrong to the Chinese people, the "bad guys" (most of the foreigners) were so stereotypically bad, that it came off more like a fantasy story.
In Ip man 4, America is the bad guy lol.
you want some real life examples of that "stereotypically bad" stuff? just go look at all the bigoted comments on youtube itself. or hell, the video mentions the burning of the summer palace; it was also looted extensively before that, too. worth reading. now, "let's extinct an entire species of animal species so we can genocide a human ethnicity" sounds ridiculous, but it actually happened; there are one-dollar-coins out there that say "one dead buffalo one dead indian."
@@youtubevoice1050 it's called "white supremacy." the cruelty _is_ the point. they do it because they can. he and other racists saw chinese people (among others) as less than human, and so they do it. and every day, people in our world continue to do it, because they can. not even that they can get away with it (although it does embolden them) but because they believe we're less than human.
(twister wasn't even that good an example because he showed ip man a little respect by the end)
@Jiyang Li. Ruthless people like that can be found in every country. The weak justifications they make don't really matter either, those are just lies and excuses for their immoral behavior. But "white supremacy" plays directly into that. It's an equally racist prejudice that is being promoted. It has always been supremacy of the powerful and greedy over everybody else. The majority of people are not like that and have no real power, nor would they want to do these horrible things. But that is where lies and propaganda and "we versus them" narratives come into play. Unfortunately these lies and narratives can blind those who don't pay attention. It has happened everywhere during the whole history of humanity.
@@youtubevoice1050 no, you are wrong. _i_ want to do those things, even though I will never be white. white supremacy is too rewarding for us not to engage. Examine what you like, what you love, what you hate, and the people you love that you don't know. It's there.
This was amazing! Especially the Drunken Master II portion. I LOVE that film and I've always enjoyed it's message about fighting injustice, but I've never thought of the impact it would have to a person who is actually from China. Just another layer for an already awesome flick. Also I've never seen
Drunken Master II with subtitles, but I've almost got it memorized with the English dubs. Lol. The dialogue seems to be much different translated in the dub version, but it is still really good. Thanks for posting this. Educational and entertaining!
i remember during the 2008 Beijing olympics, the air was filled with so much nationalism it made first grade me gag. So much talk about being the best country in the world when in the same year there was the milk scandal and Wunchuan 8.9 earthquake. Long story short i'm now in Canada, watching a video on "patriotism" in chinese cinema
what the fuck does an earthquake disaster do with natiaonalism????
During a natural disaster nationalism is things like a hardware store owner handing out tools to anyone who walks past in the hopes it can save another one of their countrymen, guys in 1000 dollar suits covered in dirt sleeping on the sidewalk because they have just worked themselves to exhaustion trying to clear rubble, students marching out of schools to help their people anyway they can or soldiers evacuating a hospital by carrying the patients out on their backs.
In comparison, waving plastic flags and cheering because its time to cheer feels very, very cheap.
@@jimboblordofeskimos yeah, that earthquake was the most traumatizing day of my life. It happened in the exact city i was in. it was a monday and i stayed home because i was sick and that probably saved my life because during the earthquake many elementary schools collapsed. every other building held, even the old ones. only the new elementary schools completely collapsed because they used cheap materials. when parents protested and demanded to know who authorized the constructions of those schools they were arrested and silenced. Anything to do with that earthquake (deaths, schools, arrests, etc.) has been censored in China. it's one of the driving forces behind my family's decision to leave.
Oh yeah and also, very soon after the earthquake many places held fundraising and such to help. Great, right? wrong. none of the "fundraised" money even made it to my city, all went directly into party member pockets. This is why it took my family so long to start donating anything to charities after leaving. What you described is what nationalism should be, China's is fake.
(Felt empty watching the olympics after losing some friends to a crashing elementary school)
@Alex Mercer I'm not sure if I'm reading this wrong but I'm not saying China is better, I live in Canada and it's not miserable here at all. Also nationalism isn't bad, it's just China's nationalism is wrong. In all my years living there I was never taught what communism meant (that all were supposed to be equal - which is clearly a lie). I brought up the earthquake because of the response that it was met with. All the praising the government and they wouldn't pay for safe schools, and when parents questioned why their kids were dead they were silenced. Of course I'm aware that there are places worse than China (North Korea being pretty obvious). I'm just pointing out my own experiences and how much I hate their fake nationalism created by a lifetime of lies and propaganda
@@megancress1384 how can you say nationalism is good except (insert some country's nationalism)?
I found American nationalism revolves around "respect your rights as US citizens, we kill the baddies, but either you are for us or against us."
Central idea of this essay seems to be this: true Patriotism is not hatred against other countries and isolationism but loving your own country and learning from the past mistakes to improve upon them.
Good message not only for governments but for individuals.
It's people like you that helped me mature and realize that seeing one bad part of a community doesn't abstract its entirety. There's always a fair share of bad blood in every country.
It's the toxic vengeful unforgiving kind of patriotism. Unfortunately it's not just in the films but it's also translated into real life to how some Chinese view their neighbors and the west.
@Aless. Lom. That's false equivilancy. The US has a problem with racism, white supremacy, and a dumb president, but those aren't representative of the majority of Americans. At the end of the day, Americans are diverse and have the ability to self-reflect and question their own country. There are shallowed American movies but there are also introspective movies that have criticisms for America. That is something the Chinese just can't do.
That is kind of you to say. It would be a mistake to really judge Americans and America by what Hollywood puts out. Most of us don't really care.
@@dorewan92 We've got worse problems with black supremacy not white supremacy. White supremacists are borderline extinct. Black supremacists can openly be racist and hateful and get away with it.
@@tastycookiechiplol are you fucking serious? How many "black supremacists"shot up a white church? How many "black supremacists" held protests chanting jews won't replace them and murdered counterprotesters with a car? FUCKING NONE. ALL OF THAT SHIT WAS DONE BY WHITE NATIONALIST DEGENERATES. Get out of your little fantasy land.
@@tastycookiechip what? I can't even
I think the essence of patriotism is just to be proud of one's geographic origin and to have confidence in the culture of that region. No matter where we are from, there is always something to be proud of there in terms of history, customs or natural environment. It annoys me when some people condemn all forms of patriotism as if it's better to hate yourself and be ashamed of your history, while at the same time embracing everything foreign as being better by definition. While keeping an open mind, pride and confidence can be very rational.
I think warwolf is just commercial movies, although it has a great success. I don't expect this movie to be a high quality patriotism movies. I agree with your point that China needs to keep improving itself without so many movies like this just to simply comfort its people, but the sentence "犯我中华者虽远必诛" doesn't sound wild to me, I would say it's a cherished spirit treasure for all Chinese people to protect your country and be brave enough to keep its sovereignty, just like people of last generation did before.
Man I love this channel. So great to hear someone talk about Chinese cinema from the Chinese perspective.
I visited Beijing during the 2008 Olympics and at a lot of historical sites you had a lot of these empty pedestals and if you read the signs, or listened to your audio tour guide it mentioned how so and so statue(often of the Buddha) was stolen, or lost during the Anglo-French Expedition(Second Opium War).
While at the same time they destroys temples and kills people that doesnt worship the CCP
@@darnit1944 mmm chinese hypocrisy.
Kossolax the Foresworn But first case is caused by pure greed.
It's so sad really, and this happens worldwide... I wonder if they would ever return to its rightful place..
FFS, the Opium Wars were over one hundred years ago. If China wants to hold onto historical grudges endlessly toward an entire race, it shouldn't complain if its former vassal states demand to hold it accountable for its past bad behavior.
It's also silly for China to blame all of its problems on foreigners. The reason China fell behind may have something to do with the massive civil wars it fought where literally tens of millions of people were killed and much of the country was destroyed. (Yes, foreigners played a role in these wars, but it would be delusional to blame them all on foreigners.)
One thing the West and China have in common is that ninety-nine percent of their worst problems are internal.
Mao killed more people with his retarded great leap forward than all those wars combined. China being a shithole nowadays is entirely the fault of China itself.
It's easy for you to say that it ended hundred of years ago. WW2 ended decades ago and you still flutter your feathers saying USA carried the war.
It's not only just a war. It's a war that led to more than a century of humiliation for China. Most of China's problem, from the Sino-Japanese wars, warlords, even the founding of communism in China, was due to the Opium War.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 You're proving my point. Viewing things this way, China gets to blame all of its problems on bad things foreigners did over one hundred fifty years ago.
@@Andrew-jh5kj dude, you have no humanity and just fuckin ignorant
I think Wolf Warrior fits into the standard story niche of the "feel good" story. It's not about exploring complex issues, it's about feeling good about oneself and ones nation. Drunken Master fills the same niche, it's just better at it. In short, the take I get from the two films is that one had a better directing and writing team than the other, lol. Nothing wrong with that, it just is.
Great analysis. I found myself addicted and watched through all your videos starting with this as the first some time last year. I haven't subscribed to a channel in a long time, but your channel on top of my radar. Keep up the great content and thanks again for your work.
Great essay outlining the hubris of pride and national sentiment as it relates to history and the stories we tell a generation. Masterful work here, friend.
I'm so happy this channel was recommended to me. Essays like this, are hard to find when you only speak English.
To understand the Chinese patriotism in media, you have to understand the 100 years of shame. It's a very natural response. I make no judgement on whether or not it's an acceptable response, but just that it's natural. As a Chinese-American, I honestly feel the same way about Chinese Patriotism as I do about American Patriotism in media. While they are equally cringe worthy to me, to the rest of America, one is seen as acceptable and the other is criticized for being poor taste.
Because the other is poorly made and unoriginal.
Agreed, someone loves his country should try to improve it rather than only feel good about it.
Wow a superpower promotes patriotism through it's films. Never happened before 🤔
NestorVass Why?
@@dajourphil0soph3r36 idk m8 🤷♂️
@b king so are Chinese cannibals?
@@NestorVass Make them hungry enough and they are.
The movie Wolf Warrior was collaborated with Chinese Army. So just like Tom Cruise's Top Gun, it is basically a military propaganda movie. In the beginning no one predicted its success, because we had too many such movies that no one liked to watch. It had little show times among cinemas during the first weeks. But it just got so popular among the viewers, and cinemas added screen time for it.
So I guess the fact is people really buy into patriotism, no matter it is Top Gun or Wolf Worrier, as long as it is good movie.
I have no problem with Patriotism as long as it focus on the beauty of their own country, instead of trying to make other countries look like shits so that their country may look bettter.
Well trust me American films have these annoying if not very similar flaws too. I'm glad to hear someone talk about it.
If we look at Superman, Wonderwoman, Spiderman etc, they are slowly fading away from that US flags colour, a sign that people are tired of the US propaganda.
I read the American Snipper and Chris Kyle was even more arrogant and unapologetic about the stuff he did
Then I watched the film even the director clint Eastwood who isn't exactly known for being a liberal progressive globalist had the sense to tone it down by a fair bit
Alan Tan
Now we are getting more or Jesus symbolism.
When you are weak, you worship the ideology of "be humble and never cease to learn and improve". When you become strong, you praise yourself by forcing others to worship you and your ideologies.
Patriotism itself is a self-conflicting concept, as to be patriotic you must love your own country more than other countries. This is quite common in American ideology where America first is a base for American patriotism. The question here is, ... is it wrong to be Patriotic? Or even more, is it wrong for Chinese to be Patriotic?
Maybe, the most ideal way is to become strong and be humble at the same time? However, has any achieved this? After all, we are all humans, and history has taught us that all kingdom/nations go through this cycle and none can last forever.
"Is it wrong for Chinese to be Patriotic?" That question really hits me. When everyone tells you to be proud of your ethnicity and identity, but what should I be proud of?
@@rebeccaxia350 fuck that hits hard, for myself the duality of knowing your ancestors discovered the new world is immensely prideful and on the side of that coin was the genocide and enslavement of its peoples. Its real head scratcher aint it? Hopefully you've made more progress with it than I have.
I think this perfectly illustrates the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is a love for your country because of its culture, people, history, and practices, you love living in your country and want to make it even better so other people can live well too. It's all about how *you* feel about your own country and how *other people* can admire your efforts. Nationalism is pushing your country and identity onto others with no respect or tact, it's about bullying others to prove you're the best in the world to them. It's all about how *others* see your country and how *you* can feel like you're at the top of the world.
@@rebeccaxia350 It's not! Everyone should be patriotic . But the subtle difference is when patriotism goes to extremes it becomes nationalism. Chinese are being forced to being nationalistic by the ruling CCP. That's wrong
@@trent11ify Why _should_ we all be patriotic? By all means, work for the betterment of the institutions around you worth keeping and improving, but what group you find kinship with need not be solely determined by the narrative that the nation is centered around.
A "country" in this context is a specific narrative, chosen from a select set of histories among its people, repeated and reinforced to keep itself substained, yet still not the collected sum of all the people it governs. It is a select _taught_ identity and "shared" history, for better and for worse. It can be both connecting, and oppressing, to it's citizens.
If it connects you with something greater, then thats great! Yet, it neither will nor should be the "be-all end-all" point of connection that everyone should adhere to.
As an American this was really interesting.. Great job man! Also it's interesting you have Chinese-American legends like Bruce Lee, and Jackie Chan who have helped bond our cultures.
7:38 the equipment that shown in this movie hardly did anything to help the Wolf Warrior Unit to hunt down those mercenaries
Me: I love Chinese Films
Oh yeah, name one chinese film not starring Jackie Chan?
Also Me: Uhhh... Mulan?
kurt engel what about Hardboiled?
Jackie Chan was in Mulan!
At least the Chinese version.
God of Gamblers
A Better Tomorrow.
Actually, almost anything starring Chow Yun Fat in the 80s to 90s.
"Hero" is a great movie! :) I also liked a movie called "I Am Not Madame Bovary" and "Kung Fu Hustle"!. There's also many others, but I have to admit I haven't seen that many ...
Deep throat?
Actually it is not the Chinese Han People who closed off the trade, it was the Man People of Qing Dynasty who closed it. The reason is they don’t want Han to rise against the govern of Man nobilities.
The Qing is very much alive today within the CCP...
Chinese closed door policy started with the Ming dynasty, by the Han Chinese, based on Confucius culture. the Qing followed Confucius government system. both the Yuan (Mongol) and Qing (Manchu) dynasties were the more liberal dynasties of China, and vastly increased Chinese territories, where as Han dynasties were conservative (Confucius) and followed the pacifist route.
@@hzhang1228 the Yuan dynasty was initially a part of the greater Mongol empire led by the grandsons of Genghis Khan. Qing was a foreign ruling dynasty from Manchuria. Every Han person hates the Qing for their discriminatory policies like the horse tail hairstyle they subjected every men to have.
The previous dynasties were more conservative, but it was during those eras that China does peak in power. Qin was the beginning if centralized rule in China, Han was a great period of expansion, commerce, Confucianism, and prosperity that every Chinese now is called a Han person, Tang also saw the expansion of the Silk Road and the flourishing of Buddhism in China that they even exported Buddhism and Chinese culture to other places like Japan. Ming was when many of the things you associate China with like the Great Wall (renovated and improved upon by Ming) and the Forbidden Palace was built. Also it was when Zheng He started his voyages.
Also, Chinese don't really like foreigners at all, especially those to rule over them. No matter how "good" you think the Yuan and Qing can do to the Chinese, they will still reject these foreign rulers.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 none of what you said relates to the topic of China's closed door policy, nor does it counter what I said. I never mentioned ideological words like good or bad. I only stated facts as is.
" Every Han person hates the Qing for their discriminatory policies like the horse tail hairstyle they subjected every men to have.
" if every men were required to have it, it is not discriminatory. and every dynasty in China added their own flavor to the Chinese culture. claiming every Han Chinese hated the Qing is not only ignorant but downright illogical, if that were the case the Qing dynasty would have never happened.
both the Yuan and Qing were Chinese dynasties, because they subjected to the mantle of the middle kingdom, the only way to rule China. civilizations are constantly growing with time. so it makes no sense saying one dynasty peaked in power unless the civilization then started to decline or was ended, both were not the case. the voyages by Zheng He were from a short liberal influence in the imperial court by the eunuchs, which was then shut down.
It is true. Ming dynasty was the one who closed off trade with the outside world. At one point they open up and allowed Zheng Ho to sail to far off places in the world but that changed after another Emperor took over.
Hygiene tip: after watching Wolf Warrior (ugghh) rinse mouth to eliminate lingering bad taste. lol.
I really enjoy the video you made. And I'm Chinese. For my generation, we can see that public opinion is moving in an increasingly radical direction. The culture we are spreading to is becoming more and more Western, emphasizing the tension of individuals and interests. Rather than being humble and restrained, and the media of both sides have not tried to educate. Instead, we continue to face each other, which is very regrettable. I hope that you can allow me to forward this video to the Chinese website.
Oh, this is the film I watched while on plane and has no option to choose other
6:43 I can't take Ni Dahong killing someone seriously after watching 都挺好.
There's actually a rule in the Censorship Bureau Guidelines that states specifically that "bad guys" must be purely bad and have no human qualities whatsoever.
(I'm a filmmaker working in China right now so that's how I know)
Great work on the channel! Keep em coming...
Yes because they tend to think whenever children and teenager do bad things it's aways under bad influence from media (violent games, stories , tv show), not because of bad parenting or education
Damn I hate the propaganda department arghhhh
@@danielhcdeath-eater258 lmao it's so funny since it's happening right now in china, a series was called out because it portrayed a girl leaving her rich adopted family to be with a humble firefighter saying that she is 'ungrateful' since her adoptive parents paid so much for her life, ignoring how the adoptive family has abused her and put down any of her achievement, even though she is a good surgeon, her life purpose is only marriage and her job as a doctor should only to make her look good and educated. In the original source novel she wasn't supposed to ever come back, but in the adaptation they make her come back to her parents and netizens in China still bashed it. Hahaha a part I hate from chinese series is how you need to unconditionally submit to your parents and forgive any of their wrongdoing ....
funny how they try to boast chinese military might in the movie by showing chinese knockoff of american humvees and apache helicopters.
The only thing similar about the those two Helos is that they're modern helicopters. lmao
@Sigrun Eide I agree with Sigrun on the matter of the attack copters; but we can all admit the wheeled vehicles clearly look like Humvee ripoffs. They weren't even trying.
China loves to copy everything. They lost all the invention spirit since CCP takeover.
@@monsterboomer8051 because the thing they invented end up always get stolen dumb . If u cant beat them, join them. China invented tea leaves, gunpowder, silk clothe and the list go on. Their treasure was stolen and is now currently displayed in British museum Japan took insipiration of Chinese hanzi and in the end still invaded China , it's like a fking snake that u raised and that snake grow bigger and end up biting you. Communist was the only way for China to move forward, do u think China would have become this strong if they follow that beta Democracy route? You should be blaming Taiwan for losing the Chinese civil war , it's like blaming the victor for winning the war. Kuomingtan receive aids from US and still lost to that broken and worn down weapon used by the communist party. People like u love to use the word "CCP" without knowing the history behind it other thn tianameng masscre and the great famine by MaoZedong.
@@mrunethical7976 did you just admit that you are proud to be a copycat forever? China didn't even improve stuff that they stole. When gunpowder copied by Western power, they try to make it stronger bigger and better. And tell me, did pre-WW 2 china managed to copycat it in time?
This channel and your work is a gift. Thank you.
Don't usually comment on video essays although I watch them a lot but I have to say you really bring out a new side/ take on film I've never really looked or thought about too much! Thanks man!
TH-cam algorithm at work . And pleased to be here
"Sharing the Pie called China" is a depiction on how foreigners divided China back then.
oh yeah in wolf warrior "trained" chinese soldiers get mowed down by a few mercenaries
Love your reviews with such open mindedness!!
Fantastic analysis. I've loved the film Druken Master 2 for so many years now, but like most of the Chinese cinema I have watched, I have mostly been interested in the action, choreography and stuntwork and paid little attention to the actual plot or theme of the film.
Forgive me really, but from personal experience, it amazes me that a Chinese can actually be so very objective in matters related to China. I must say, this guy deserves respect. He reasons both in and out of the box.
Did anyone see the movie wandering earth? Its a chinese movie about saving the earth.
In that movie all nations work together, would it have been a hollywood movie then only america worked alone
Hollywood Movie：“Russia and China tried and failed, now the world count on us(US)”
yup watched it recently. it was rough in some areas but it was good. it was also one of the few times ive seen the earth coming with the humans
it would've been more realistic for an international threat response organization to include more than just Americans. problem is you would have people who would be pissed off about "forced diversity". "wow, Chinese in Pacific Rim? REEE!!! wow, Chinese & Indian superheroes in Marvel comics? Outrageous!"
sounds like every alien invasion / zombie movie ever.
they might as well take a paint brush and cover all the other nations in the world and only leave USA on the globe.
I'm still in wolf warrior PTSD, just can't really see the face of the leading actor/producer
It also feels slightly scifi in my opinion. Unlike American war movies whose can draw from the images and experiences of wars in iraq and afghanistan, the PLA has never fought a modern war, so it all just feels really fake and futuristic.
well the PLA has no reason to start (over 50)wars and glorifying them in media.
and i think thats kinda the point, a "what if" the PLA went to war with some other country
Great video essay. I love the logic, and the comparison between the older and newer movies to come out.
I'm just happy to see Ti Lung in one of your videos. Hope you are
Well!
*Well Produced*
remind me of the great master, Every Frame a Painting..
Watching Wolf Warrior 2 has a distasteful ending when the film listed the contact number to call if you are in distress as a Chinese
Restrictions happened, HK Cinema used to chugged out good movies in the 70's-90's then 1997 happened.
Old bro you are my new favourite channel now! 老哥，真的太喜欢你做的影片了，加油支持
What an insightful survey of patriotism in Chinese cinema. I found this very informative.
But no one criticizes the patriotism in Hollywood does anyone?
Of course they do. Half of Hollywood is busy making movies which hate upon the West, and western history.
For every jingoistic Patriotic movie that comes out of there, there is usually a film to counterbalance it. Everyone thought American Sniper was a pro-American propaganda film, but in retrospect, it and movies like it could be considered anti-war based on interpretation.
Yes we do, americans just dont listen.
Most war movies tend to be anti-war, especially Vietnam ones
no mention of the role of the chinese goverment in how films are made in china?
其实道理很简单，富贵不还乡犹如锦衣夜行，十年寒窗苦读只为一朝金榜题名，家里有喜事就要请客吃饭，大宴来宾。目中无人，自大的问题还要至少五十到一百年才会影响局势。
他在国外不清楚14，15年公知有多泛滥，你能想象当时说自己中国好会被围攻吗？当时中国需要这样的民族鸡血。
Fantastic work my Chinese brother, subscribed.
I just discovered your channel and it's really great! I'm a filmmaker that's been living in China for a year and I'm a big fan of Hong Kong cinema but your channel has really helped me realise why modern mainland Chinese cinema leaves me feeling cold.
The other issue that you didn't address, is that a lot of Chinese patriotic movies are pro Authoritarian. Like the amazing Jet Li movie, Hero, ends with him accepting the brutal conquest of the Qin emperor, as long as it unites China. I doubt that message plays well for Tibetans, uyghurs, or people in Hong Kong.
I love the movie for its acting, Direction, and amazing visual design and production values, but the ending always leaves me feeling a bit dirty for loving the movie so much. It's almost like people who watched Song of the South, or Birth of a Nation, just for the Cinematic qualities, despite the terrible implications of the story
Except do you know what happens when China is not in a centralized rule historically? Chaos. Warlords start popping up everywhere. The Chinese revolution that created the Republic of China eventually was fractured to different warlords and ended in a civil war along with a foreign invasion.
And most of the time, it was the peasants that makes the biggest mess in China. Liu Bang and Xiang Yu, famous Chinese rebel leaders, were formerly peasants. The Ming fell due to peasants, as well as the Tang dynasty. Han faced a large peasant rebellion as well, throwing the realm to chaos, and later subjected to war amongst its many warlords. Qing fell due to those same peasant problems as well that spawned the Republic of China, as well as the CCP being formed by peasants as well initially
@@alexanderchristopher6237 centralized rule doesn't have to be authoritarian, or oppressive.
Nationalism and Socialism. That works so well...
noelsoong777 Yeah, look at Venezuela!
When he talks about the Chinese having nothing to learn at the end because the protagonist having no struggle, and then he shows Ip Man as an example, I had to disagree.
In the first Ip Man, the main theme is to always value family and country first. Ip Man could've taken the deal and taught Japanese occupying forces his kung fu, but it would've meant betraying his country just to save his own hide. At the fight in the end, it was cleatly biased because it's Ip Man, and of course he was going to win because he's the superior fighter, but that's not what it was about. It wasn't about winning, and he was never meant to win to begin with. There was a much larger conflict going internally, and that was either he becomes a coward like the master he was sparring with in the beginning, who died for bags of rice, or he stands against the Japanese to prevent them from getting even the smallest inkling of leverage over China. He chose the latter.
In the first film it is about no matter how strong you are, you cannot reverse history ending with ip man getting shot in the head. in the second film, Ip man promotes patriotism despite fighting an unfair battle he went on beating his enemy. Ip man three probably the worst ip man film, but the message is clear there are no winners in pointless fighting.
Todd Tao he doesn't get shot in the head lol it was the chest
As far as I know there's lots and lots of great Chinese films about ancient days but not too many good Chinese films about modern day. Chinese filmakers seems to have more interests in heroism and patriotism than small stories happening in present time.
this channel is so great. thank you
Also half of all Chinese recruits are disqualified from serving.