DIY Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine (same iSonic tank used by Kirmuss) Pt. 1 (IMPORTANT UPDATES!)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- ** INFORMATION UPDATED - Parts 2-4 have vital added information **
** Also added Part 4 describing the filtering process **
*** UPDATE I've found it better simply to leave the albums to dry 'naturally' for about 30 minutes on a normal, dry day. You can also use a hair blow dryer if you are in a hurry 😊
Basically a layout of how I put this together and what I use based upon the most excellent Rushton Paul research and detailed thread. I try to keep it brief since I never do this, but I felt since there are SO dang many choices and ways to build your own US RCM, I honestly feel that hopefully this might be helpful, thanks! Latheofheaven
An updated Amazon link to the iSonic model in one of my comments below.
(Comment: I think this pump motor struggles somewhat, so a stronger one may be better) **EDIT** I've added a link in parts 2 & 3 for a much stronger, better pump
Rushton Paul's Research: positive-feedb...
And yes, I DO indeed use hockey pucks as spacers : ) They work really well because with the threaded shaft they snug up nicely to the records holding them in place.
Oh, and if you want to go the route with this motor and you want to extend it like I did, you need to get the 28 thread coupling nuts and shafts. The more common 24 thread ones at Home Depot will 'work', but you kind of have to force it. The 28 thread ones fit the threads on the shaft of the motor. I got both the coupling nuts and shafts separately on eBay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
** UPDATE **
I hadn't realized that I didn't seem to list the additives or amounts that I use in the tank, sorry about that... To fill the iSonic tank to slightly above the fill line (so the records are fully covered up to the average deadwax area, but to keep the records from hitting the bottom of the tank) it takes very close to 2 gallons. Here are the amounts of the additives that I use:
FULL TANK Replacement:
IPA: 200 mL per 2 Gallons (approx 1 cup)
ILFOTOL: 10 mL per 2 Gallons
Triton X-100: 8 mL per 2 Gallons
I placed links to these and other products on either Part 2 or Part 3
DIY Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine (same tank used by Kirmuss) Pt. 2
• DIY Ultrasonic Record ...
DIY Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine (same tank used by Kirmuss) Pt. 2
th-cam.com/video/0XB4ujpmLQs/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LatheOfHeaven
Very nice work !!! It's me or i don't see your european link for the "bath" from isonic ?? Need try to make this . ♥ .Thk a lot for all work !!
Hey, thanks Bro! Yeah, actually at first I ONLY had the European 240 volt version by mistake 😊 Then, someone informed me about that so I replaced it with the US one. Sorry I don't have that exact link for the EU one, but I THINK if you do a search on Amazon UK you should be able to see that version. The US Amazon also had the EU version listed originally, but you might as well order from the EU I would think for lower duties and that.
Yes, the tank has worked fantastically. I will admit that most of my albums were fairly clean, but even the 30 or so out of my 2000 that I've cleaned already that I had to set aside for more rigorous vacuum/rinse cleaning still came out quite a bit better, and all the rest are for the most part really clean and quiet! I think with all the research these other fellows kindly did, and getting the solution where it is really effective, getting the heat and rotation speed right, *AND* very importantly adding the 1 or 2 minutes or so in the rinse tank seriously makes ALL the difference! Feel free to ask if there's any help you need! 👍
@@latheofheaven Hi ,
It's super nice to have answered me ++. Very appreciated !! Yes I would certainly need time if I pass the course and find this model (not want one of these machines from Aliexpress or other ... (quality ??)). What is the exact model of your tank (iSonic P4831 (II))? not easy to find here !! Sorry for my english . I will come back to you in PM if necessary and if I can ++ .One more time many Thx !!! ++
@@d6mike Sure thing! This is the primary link on Amazon US. It shows numerous models including the 220 volt ones if you need that. It also lists the many variations where you can get the record spindle and motor from them. I DO very much like their design, so if you decide you wish to spend more and get their system, then you can do that. Just 2 things though... 1) do NOT put 10 records because they will be too close together to clean properly. Instead, only put about 6. And, 2) their motor turns too FAST! It turns at about 2 rpms. I don't know if you can maybe buy a 3 volt AC adapter like I did for my motor also to slow it down to about .6 rpm, which is fine. you MIGHT also be able to do that with theirs. Otherwise, if you wish to do that part yourself, you can just get the tank itself:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PT6HRNQ
Very nice, would much rather get this than the Kirmuss.
Thanks kindly Leon! : )
Yeah, this way you can modify and customize exactly how you want the records arranged. Despite I'm sure the effectiveness that I've heard about his overall method, I've never really cared for how because of his proprietary lid, you are limited to a strange combination of like 2-LPs, 1-45, and 1-78. Huh...???
But, the good news is that the tank itself must be pretty solid if it is the one he uses in his $900+ system.
Oh, and I can't remember whether I added this to the information above, but I REALLY like the fact that the tank is 13" long instead of the usual 11.8" that most the generics ones are. There is BARELY enough room for the records. I was always having to fuss with arranging the records just right. Now with a good 1/2" leeway on either end, there is PLENTY of room and a bit more width to play with due to that also.
***UPDATE 2022-12-20! I just found what LOOKS like the same motor (for a lot less!)
www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Cleaning-Including-100-240V/dp/B08862R6RY
DIY Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine (same tank used by Kirmuss) Pt. 2
th-cam.com/video/0XB4ujpmLQs/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LatheOfHeaven
Just too add... I've improved the spinning device a little where it is a bit more solid, and also I'm spacing the vinyl slightly more with only 6 records at a time with about 1 1/2" between records. It's working REALLY well!
What stops the labels from getting wet in the cleaner itself or the rinse bath? Thanks for the video and details!
Hi, thanks for your comment. Sorry my first video here is pretty rough 😊 I was just anxious to show and help others with how awesomely this DIY ultrasonic tank really cleaned records and the reasons why. I scanned through it quickly to see if there was an angle showing the water level, but I don't think I showed that clearly in this video. I think I go into much more detail about the water level and such in the next video or two (Pts. 2 & 3 - In Pt. 4 I add details about recirculating the solution through the filtration system I made) So, I believe if you check out the next 2 videos, I do show and explain more clearly about the level of the solution in the tank. Basically, to answer your question simply, the level of the solution is just below the labels, roughly about 1/8" or so. I hope that helps! I don't remember for sure, but I *THINK* that in Pt. 2 where I show the rinse tank I believe I show a clearer shot of the water line as they are rinsing, which would be similar to the solution level in the cleaning tank.
@@latheofheaven thanks! I'll watch the other videos. I'm most curious about water sticking to the grooves as the record rotates, causing the gravity to pull the liquid over the labels. If this doesn't happen in practice maybe I'm just visualizing it wrong.
@@OldDirtHill Yeah, I know EXACTLY what you mean, and I was concerned about that very thing before I did this. I read about some where they have these fancy waterproof covers that go over the label, etc. But, the whole idea is that as the record rotates (as slowly as possible as I point out in the videos) the solution since it does have surfactants in it does indeed spread over the grooves of the vinyl, BUT it never, ever runs down over the labels as you might be afraid that it does. By the time the bottom of the record in the solution rotates to the top (continuously of course) the solution DOES adhere to the vinyl but as the surface rotates upward, the majority of the solution of course drains downward and not enough is actually 'carried' to the top to then run down over the label. I've cleaned probably 1000 - 1500 of my albums so far and the solution has never run down over the labels. Same with the rinse tank using just distilled water.
But, after rinsing you *DO* have to be sure to leave the stack of albums sitting horizontally for long enough to allow whatever water is left to dry fully (normally on a dry day about 30 minutes is enough) I ALWAYS inspect the albums carefully as I take them off the spindle, giving special attention to the center deadwax and the most outer grooves, because if there is a small drop or two, that is where it usually is. I keep an eyeglass cleaning cloth nearby just in case I have to wipe a few small drops in those areas before resleeving the vinyl in 3 layer poly lined inner sleeves.
@@latheofheaven thanks so much for this detailed response! I'm 99% sure I'm going to pull the trigger and buy one of these. Wish me luck!
@@OldDirtHill Oh absolutely! Compared to all the Chinese crap metal ones on Amazon (no offense intended) this tank is very good quality and allows you the flexibility to add either their own spindle to hold the records (I've commented about the pros & cons of that in the videos) or you can make your own like I did. I've talked to one of the primary representatives at the company and he was very nice and helpful. This way you not only spend $1000's less than one of the commercial units, but like I mention in the videos, this is superiour in every way because not only do you have full control of the temperature, solution, rotation speed of the spindle, but you can also effectively do about 6 records at at time as opposed to say the Audiodesk ($4000+) which only does *ONE*, and gives you absolutely no control over the other variables 😊
I WOULD strongly suggest going through Amazon if possible due to their easy 30 day return.
Very well done and informative video. Can you tell us where you purchased the tank? I've been looking at Ultrasonic cleaners and I would love to build one using this tank. Your link is for a European version and not suitable for us in the States. Thank you so much for your time and trouble producing this video for us. :-)
Thanks kindly for the nice comment, I appreciate that
: ) There is just SO much out there about this and DIY and I've had a chance not only to do a lot of research and reading, but also on the Steve Hoffman Forums and elsewhere I was able to write and ask some of these guys directly who have researched and experimented a lot with DIY ultrasonic RCMs.
Here is a general link to Amazon here in the US which has this model + other choices to add their spindle/motor.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PT6HRNQ
They're spindle/motor design is very good and I like it, BUT... one thing to note is that 10 records is too many. They're won't be enough space between the records to allow the cavitation to do its work. You can use their spacers, but just space out 6 records across the tank, which as you could see in my case, that is what I do. One other thing... If you choose to go with their spindle/motor, as I comment either in part 2 or 3, I don't remember, their motor turns too fast, about 2 rpms. Like with my spindle/motor, I replaced the 12V adapter with a 3V one so that slowed it down to about .6 rpms which is much better. I'm not absolutely sure you can do that with theirs, although the power supply to the spindle/motor is separate from the tank's main power supply.
Otherwise, you can adapt the lesser expensive, smaller one I use as I describe if you wish to do so.
I hope that helps! (if you haven't seen parts 2 & 3, there is a lot of updated information about how I do this process along with further links) Cheers! Jaime.
yes i try to find a european link soo . :)
@@latheofheaven Thanks so much!
Looks like iSonics current models of the P4875 offer either no heater (they always indicate in their literature that records don’t need heat) or they have the heater in various versions of the P4875, but the heat settings start at 40°C (102°F) at the lowest. From what I’ve been reading this is too high. Wondering if this means that iSonics machines aren’t really suitable for record cleaning anymore?
Hmmm... If that is indeed true, that would be a real shame! Yes, 40 degrees is pushing it, I always try to keep it around 35ish. From what I saw their last one merely set the heat at 35 and you could not change it. I would double check this if I were you because that doesn't quite seem to jibe with what I saw from their latest not too long ago. As a matter of fact, if you check the comments below, a fellow just got one not too long ago and it was the one with the fixed temperature at 35. In the past, they have sold a complete 'Record Cleaning' setup, with the same tank but with a motorized turn spindle to hold the records. I can't see them dumping that unless for some reason it turned out not to be profitable for them.
In the research I had done before setting mine up, I would say as long as it is a quality tank with similar dimensions and a heater (which most do have) and a decent warranty, and most definitely *NOT* one of the millions of generic steel ones you see on Amazon from China, you should still be able to set up something similar. In an updated link either here on on one of the other parts, I just posted a new link to a less expensive version of the exact same motor/spindle that I use on mine that you can get from Amazon.
Oh, it just occurred to me too that even if their heater is set to 40 degrees, IF you can simply turn it on and off, then you are golden, because by using a simple inexpensive Thermometer/Total Dissolved Solids Meter it would be super easy simply to heat it up to what you want and then turn it off before putting the records in, case solved! 😁
My Isonic came in this week. I purchased the company branded 10 LP kit on sale at Amazon. I loved your filter idea so I set the same thing up. Same pump with 2 GE Brand water filters with a 1 micron and .35 micron filter same as yours. Cleaned my first batch today. My question is I only did 30 records then filtered the solution back in 1 gallon jugs to reuse later this week. Is this something you do as well? Curious to see how long one can reuse the solution especially if the lps were not crazy dirty.
Hey Steve! That sounds great man! Yeah, from the research and asking these really experienced guys about it, that seems to be the best system. Um... I don't quite understand though why you are filtering the water into jugs...? What I do, and I think this is a bit simpler and more streamlined is that I simply filter the water back into the tank as shown on the 2nd video. I generally do it after cleaning a few groups, and I let it run for the 20 minutes or so while the last group is drying. That way the water is continuously filtered back through the tank and probably in 20 minutes goes through the filters about 15-20 times. So, when the last group of records are dry. I stop the pump and close the valve on the tank. That way you are all ready for the next time.
If you just run it through the filters once into some container, I don't think that would be nearly as effective. Just leave the water in the tank with the cover on until next time. The primary thing here too is that you are adding a percentage of the ILFOTOL to the tank which has antibacterial properties, so that you can leave the water in the tank, in the hoses, and in the filters until the next time you use it. Make SURE that you have your chemistry right for the correct balance and the most effective outcome to your cleaning, as well as making sure the heat is set correctly.
I don't know if I mentioned this in my videos, I think I forgot and left it out, sorry... But, I got an inexpensive TDS meter at Amazon for I think under $20. That way you can check the water periodically, or after each cleaning to see what the levels of dissolved solids are. If you are using distilled water (like you should be!) and after you've added your chemistry, the meter should show around 0-3 ppm. Then, as I said, make SURE to *CIRCULATE* the water through your filters several times after each group. If your chemistry is set up correctly you should see a gradual rise in the TDS after groups. If you are filtering the water properly as I suggested, then you should be able to do anywhere around 100-200 albums before needing to change the water. You should change the water when the TDS starts approaching about 20 ppm.
Some VERY important things to remember:
1) DO NOT do 10 records at once, that is too many and does not leave enough space between records to allow the ultrasonic waves to work properly. Regardless of what the guys at iSonic say (they are after all NOT record cleaning specialists) Make SURE to space out the records so that you only do about 6 at a time as shown in the 2nd video.
2) The heater in the tank takes a LONG time to heat the water, so what I do is I set it for 120 (I think that is what it is. I think the settings are 109, 113, 122 or something like that) And be SURE to use your TDS meter which also shows the actual temperature of the water! Do *NOT* let it go above 40 degrees Celsius! 35 is better because the ultrasonic action raises the temperature a little. As long as it is over 30 you can start cleaning.
3) As I mention in the videos, the rotation speed of their motor is TOO FAST! It turns at over 2 rpm, which will NOT allow the record surface to stay in the water long enough for effective cleaning. The main guy at iSonic when I talked to him said that the power to the rotation motor is separate from the power cord that powers the tank. So, if you can figure out a way to run a 3 volt AC adapter to that motor as opposed to what I am guessing is likely a 12 volt power supply, then you can slow that down to a little over .5 rpm, which is much better.
4) Get the chemistry right! DON'T screw around... Use distilled water and go by the proportions that I suggest which come from both reading the extensive paper on Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Records and actually asking the guy directly.
5) Be SURE to give the records a good rinse in distilled water. The simplest way I've found is how I showed using the simple dishpan in the 2nd video. Since you likely won't want to screw with the rotational motor that comes with the tank, you can simply construct a spindle like I have and just turn the records manually so that they rotate in the dishpan and give the complete surface of the records you just cleaned a good and *VERY NECESSARY* rinse. You might be able to take the spindle that comes with the tank and turn it manually in the rinse water, I'm not sure since i do not have their system. If you prefer, you can just vacuum/rinse the records individually using your vacuum/rinse RCM. But, I think that takes a lot longer and is a lot more trouble. If you are not vacuuming them dry using a RCM, then be SURE after rinsing to allow them to air dry COMPLETELY, with the assistance during the last 5 minutes or so with a fan if you wish to do so.
I hope that helps!
@@latheofheaven Thanks for all the info! I was running it through several times before I jugged it, didn’t know how I felt about leaving it in the tub. But I’ll leave it in next time. I’m not using the solution you are using yet, I will try it though. Right now using the solution that came with the machine. I have a couple of other brands around as well I use in my Okki Nokki. Might be a pain to get ahold of some of the ingredients for the home brew one. But I’ll try it at some point.
@@stevelopes8783 Sure man... You will find that simply buying the few solutions will cost a LOT less and last a LOT longer! I have provided the links for the different products. Also, you will have the specific properties available as explained, for example the antibacterial nature of the ILFOTOL to keep the solution from forming bacteria, thus being able to keep it in the tank. Whether you put in in bottles or leave it in the tank, that aspect will not change. Unless you have a additive with antibacterial properties, no matter where your solution is stored, it will not stay 'clean'
I know it sounds like a nuisance, but once you have the proportions and routine in place, it really is very easy and inexpensive. I don't know what solution iSonic gives you (like I say, in talking the main guy in distribution, I could tell although well meaning, he was *NO* record cleaning expert and just repeats whatever the company provides) If you are going to bother to go through all this expense of the tank and time and trouble, trust me, you *WILL* want the proper results so that it will all be worth it 😊
If you scan through the pertinent parts of the paper Aqueous Record Cleaning, you will see exactly what these solutions do. You need 3 basic properties in your solution:
1) cleansing agent/IPA
2) Surfactant(s)/a tergitol product/ILFOTOL
3) Antibacterial/ILFOTOL/Hepistat, etc.
If you are also incorporating a vacuum/rinse RCM when more aggressive scrubbing is needed, you can combine a variety of different agents as I have shown the different combinations I use in my 2nd video.
The latest model from Isonic locks the heater temp at 35 celsius and no longer can be adjusted, using the temp gauge on theTDS meter it stays pretty spot on. The buttons on the right now just have time selections, 5,8,10, and 15 minutes. I'm not gonna do more than 6 or 7 tops records at a time so the space is there.
@@stevelopes8783 Oh, that's right, I remember the guy telling me that about the newer model having fixed temperature, I had forgotten that. Well, that's perfect then. Hmmm... I wonder why they don't have the longer times? I always run my set of 6 records for 20 minutes. I have no solid evidence that it necessarily takes that long and I'm not as dogmatic about that as I am about the solution, rinsing, and other things I've mentioned 😁 but I guess I just want to be sure that the cleaning is thorough.
That's good that you are not doing more than 6 or7 records at a time. I would assume that you can just simply use the spacers they give you for the 10 records and space them out how you want. BUT... I will say that if you are using their motor at 2+ rpm, and you don't have a way to slow it down, you WILL indeed have to make sure to run the session a lot longer because the record surface area will not be in contact with the solution long enough at each pass to do any good. I'm *GUESSING* that MAYBE if you make sure to run it as long as you can, but don't go over 20 minutes, it MIGHT still clean effectively. But, if you want to be SURE, then if there is any possible way to slow the motor's rotation speed by connecting a 3v or smaller AC adapter somehow, that would be much more effective.
NOT all related to Audio or Vinyl, but some sections on my site that you may find interesting:
My Listening Room & Setup:
photos.app.goo.gl/9ja3UKob7tppW4Y38
My Digital Audio collection:
lathe-of-heaven.com/SoundZ.html
Here is my Poetry on my site if you wanna check it out:
lathe-of-heaven.com/poetry.html
Here is my Art page:
lathe-of-heaven.com/Art.html
Primary Site:
lathe-of-heaven.com/
Saw your site. I just ordered the Tool Lateralus picture vinyl yesterday! And- 2112 is my favorite album.
@@CraigLafferty Excellent choices Bro! :D Yeah, it was one of the rare cases where I actually got 2 sets so that I could display one on the wall and have one to play. I'm normally not that extravagant. The sonics on Laterallus are actually quite good, even for a picture disc! I believe Chris Bellman was the engineer on that one. 2112 is indeed I feel one of THE all time Classic Rock / Prog albums ever! Definitely my favourite from Rush.
Added a brief update video with some improvements and some more information:
DIY Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine (same tank used by Kirmuss) Pt. 2
th-cam.com/video/0XB4ujpmLQs/w-d-xo.html
I just added Part 4 better explaining the filtering process, temperature, and TDS level:
th-cam.com/video/qCGgkk7xAW0/w-d-xo.html
*SOUNDROOM SYSTEM & COLLECTIONS:* photos.app.goo.gl/9ja3UKob7tppW4Y38
*PRIMARY WEBSITE:* lathe-of-heaven.com/ (Says 'Not Secure', that's just because it is old 😊)
*SoundZ:* lathe-of-heaven.com/SoundZ.html
*ART:* lathe-of-heaven.com/Art.html
*POETRY:* lathe-of-heaven.com/poetry.html
*VINYL COLLECTION:* lathe-of-heaven.com/Albums.docx (apparently TH-cam will only allow you to 'Right-Click' and 'Save As' a docx file.) BTW, when I checked this, I got a 'This file cannot be downloaded safely' prompt. I don't know why, it is only a WORD Docx file with a list of my vinyl albums, but that is up to you. With everyone's Anti-virus programs and such, you can simply just scan the file first. Personally, I find it a REAL pain! 🙄
***UPDATED FORMULA & ADDED RINSE TANK:
In talking further with Neal, the chemist who wrote the extensive paper on 'Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records', I have revised the formula in the tank:
INSTRUCTIONS SUBSTITUTING THE HEPISTAT WITH ILFOTOL:
If you are using Triton X100, here is your cleaning formula:
0.1% Triton X100: this is 100% concentrated so its 1 mL/L (This is about 5X CMC so you get good wetting and good detergency)
0.125% ILFOTOL: Mix this as 1.25 mL/L. (As the document says pages 59/60, this is only a 5% mixture, so 0.125% only has 62.5 ppm surfactant but we are only adding for the bio-inhibitor and its functional as low as 10 ppm)
2.5% IPA: If 100% = 25 mL/L; if 91% = 28 mL/L; if 70% = 36 mL/L (you can see the basic equation on page 65)
Otherwise, you probably want to add the Triton X100 to the IPA to get it to mix and then add that to the tank. I would not add the ILFOTOL to the IPA+Triton mix.
Here is a link to the VERY exhaustive and most helpful paper that Neal wrote:
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2021/03/PAC-Vinyl-Records_2021-03-01_pdf.pdf
Here is a picture of the very simple but extremely helpful rinse tank I use in order to make SURE that almost all of the surfactants, etc., are rinsed off of the albums after Ultrasonic cleaning. This way the 6 records are fully rinsed in distilled water and it saves me from having to use a purified vacuum/rinse on every record separately. After shaking off the excess rinse water, I set on a paper towel for about 15 minutes and then add a fan blowing air through the records for an additional 5-10 minutes. At the end, they are fully dry:
lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUu8jCNeVBRT0LP0cxdG_P8NHOxopPMSw0pCXDdxvV8IG2vFvCtyocq3x2mhevSfsWFKS5VAWSlMl0jEZBmkJS342GSrEog1AcMLBfcGu3TQNZxmy6q4DU1R-C4SVntbQ4Tm_EPanc-OT1XzBp-4D0k9w=w865-h649-no?authuser=0
(Just in case the link above goes 'Wonky' again, here is a 'share' link to the Google Photos album picture - it is also included in the complete pictures of my Listening Room link - The 'Comments' shown on the picture are actually displayed in the complete Listening Room link listed in a further comment below)
photos.app.goo.gl/ctuQeUbopSJ37ZAB7
bad link above
@@whittierlibrarybookstore3708 Thanks kindly for letting me know!
So from what I'm reading You're not making the mixture with all 3 chemicals? Just the IPA and the Triton? I'm having a hard time following that paper. There needs to be a Cliff's Notes version, way too much information for me lol...
@@stevelopes8783 I know, it's pretty overwhelming. In one of my comments I think either here on this page or on one of the other parts, I specifically show the amounts of all 3 additives to use in the ultrasonic tank. I am using the IPA, the Triton X-100, and the ILFOTOL.
@@stevelopes8783 Actually, I show the exact amounts for this tank in the comment here above this one.