That depends; is assault as a concept dependant on self awareness? I don't know enough about legal theory to say. At the very least, the interaction with the minor-link shows that Starfleet perhaps ought to provide refresher courses on the "seek out new life" part of its mandate, as Kim either was poking about a bit too eagerly in order to fall in, or that Kim-II was being a little flexible with the truth when explaining that self-awareness/consciousness/individuality was an unknown concept until the original took a dip, as it would have required a modicum of intent in order "invite" him for a paddle.
yeah, probably lol. wait no, it'd be more like harvesting plants because they don't have central nervous systems. until it touched Kim, at which point, yes, it would begin to approach assault. Janeway phasering the goop on the planet is definitely assault. lol
In this episode, Voyager finds a very hot planet that seems unwelcoming at first, but is really friendly and sweet after all. Ultimately they exchange some fluids and genetic material, and produce new life.
1.) The holodeck is still implemented in a stupid way 2.) Why don't they bunk up and save power already, they are stuck at the other end of the galaxy without any supply lines 3.) Seven is demonstrating that she is smart. Again 4.) Beaming stuff is indeed a smarter idea than going down there. 5.) all the whole finding clone Kim and Paris, beaming them up, them getting sick, landing the ship, wandering around the planet, etc has to be done before original Kim and Paris died on the planet from lack of oxygen. Which was down to 30 seconds
5) but you're forgetting that the suit had emergency power. As we all know, electricity makes lungs go. Joking aside, I gave some thought to how I'd make Paris and Kim still being alive work in the episode. A thin layer of the silver goop over their bodies, protecting them and converting whatever atmosphere is there into oxygen, would have solved the issue. It could also have been an indicator of the goop's altruism and made the ending less questionable. The crew could even have misconstrued its intentions, perhaps phasering it off, to keep the percieved threat level.
Love your intellectual commentary as well as the pedantry that I have wanted to give this show for years. This is content we have all been waiting a decade for. THANK YOU!!
My memories of Enterprise consist of: 1) the theme song 2) the biogel smearing scenes on away missions Odd that a jizzmonster didn't stick in my brain, but there you are.
The plot of Demon reads like a 1950s Superman story or a rejected TOS season 1 episode. Especially the ending. The Federation is against any kind of genetic alteration or cloning. Riker and Pulaski didn't even blink when they phasered their own clones to death in TNG's Up The Long Ladder. But here, Janeway happily lets herself and the crew get copied by this Silver Blood? Anything for a little free fuel, I suppose. As for the holodecks getting shut down: they may run on their own power system, but if that system also uses deuterium, it's best to take them offline as well. Can't power a separate engine when there's no fuel after all. Forcing the Doctor to have house guests in Sick Bay is interesting. Yes, it's an invasion of his privacy, but it was no picnic for Neelix and the others either. Ironically, had he been allowed his own quarters he would have been the only crew member able to stay in his own space even if that deck got shut down. Holograms don't need heat, food or oxygen to survive. Then again, I'm reminded of what his EMH diagnostic tool said in The Swarm: "... You're supposed to be off during your off hours!" Lastly: I realize it was meant as an info dump for the audience, but Chakotay casually lecturing Seven about a Demon class planet is hilarious mansplaining at its finest. You're talking to the woman who designed and built the Astrometrics lab, commander obvious!
I considered the fuel source for the holodeck reactors, but found no canonical data on it. If it was deuterium, why were the holodecks only now being shut down? We're overthinking it, obviously, but it's a mess. I certainly agree that the use of the sick bay is reasonable in a crisis. My point is just that his attachment to it could have been lessened had he been given what he asked for. Of course, if there's life support on deck 5 you wouldn't have needed to use the sick bay anyway. There are either 42 or 48 quarters on deck 5 (depending which schematics you're looking at) so 3 in a room solves the whole thing. Unless each room has isolated life support, there's no reason not to. Yeah, I know what you mean about the infodum. You're right that it's a strained method for delivering plot, but it's necessary. Curious coincidence that you should notice it on Chakotay, as I saw he was getting **very** close to Seven in one of those screenshots (01:27). He was probably directed to of course, but personal space should be an unexplored frontier imo.
3:29 Looks they were expecting this shuttle to crash as they didn’t even bother to paint ‘74656’ on the side! 3:55 Probably… Seven’s spacesuit looks to be moulded to fit her unique physical characteristics… 4:45 Shame these suits don’t have an auto seal feature like the ones on the NX-01 had 200 years ago… 5:28 Don’t know why it’s so hard to find sleeping space on Voyager. In “Displaced” they put up about 100 Nyrians in the cargo bay. 6:45 So environmental suits deteriorate in a Class-Y atmosphere, but the upholstery of the shuttle, who’s door was left open the whole time, was perfectly fine! So maybe make some suits out of whatever they make seats and carpet out of!? 10:29 Again, the upholstery of the biobeds, so say nothing of the medical equipment all around them, is more capable of withstanding Class-Y atmospheres than their environmental suits! Funny how in TNG, Riker and Pulaski found it abhorrent to be cloned, as did the entire crew according to Picard, yet we’re supposed to believe that most of Voyager’s crew agreed to leave clones of themselves on this barren planet?
@@Unlimited_Lives another reviewer of the Tuvix episode made me laugh because he pointed out that the transporter combined their clothing, and was like "no no no, you are not combining Neelix's horrible outfit with star fleet pajamas and getting anything wearable - it would be demon clothing, eating clothing and shitting them out as polyester"
3:49 Maybe the windows in the back (and top) are for medical reasons. Or it can be adapted for the skull structure of different species. Or it allows light in from the back (or top) in for some type of protocol reasons.
Hmm... tricorder scan access for medical reasons possibly, if we consider the suit and helmet material to be resistant to forms of radiation. Not a bad idea.
@@Unlimited_Lives I didn't menation Andorian in my previous comment. (I didn't want to look up the spelling). But Andorian do have those antennas. And I did noticed a window in the front. So it could be module to adapt to Andorian for extra space for their antennas. Maybe some spices need extra space in the back, like you hinted at.
The one reason the shuttle didn’t crash is because it wasn’t piloted by Chakotay. Honestly, by the end of the show there were two things I was still amazed by - 1. That Janeway still let him anywhere near a shuttle. And 2. Tuvok hadn’t snapped in a Vulcan way and told Neelix that after seven years he should damn well know that his name isn’t Mr Vulcan.
The science in this episode is well not very scientific but I love it all the same for it’s entertainment value and the pay off that comes later. I like the core concept of new life form experiencing consciousness for the first time. The real Paris and Kim being found alive after quite some time with out oxygen or intact suits to protect them from radiation and temperature hot enough to melt them is so implausible it needs a little more attention paid to it then ‘backups’ I would leave been interesting if they had explored the possibility that the planet somehow kept them alive not understanding it’s new found sentients but sensing that it felt important to keep them alive with out understanding why.
Ooh, I just responded elsewhere with something similar. Pasting... "Joking aside, I gave some thought to how I'd make Paris and Kim still being alive work in the episode. A thin layer of the silver goop over their bodies, protecting them and converting whatever atmosphere is there into oxygen, would have solved the issue. It could also have been an indicator of the goop's altruism and made the ending less questionable. The crew could even have misconstrued its intentions, perhaps phasering it off, to keep the percieved threat level." Delighted to see I'm not the only one who considered it.
I will always appreciate a story where the crew encounter a life form that is genuinely alien, as opposed to just "A bit like the Romans/Aztecs/Inuit/Chinese (at least as understood by American scriptwriters) with rubber on their faces". Of course, the science is complete bollocks, but I do give them props for the idea.
"And the lack of oxygen hasn't done him any harm either. He tells them that he was dying, but then didn't, which is pretty bloody selfish of him frankly." I appreciate the relentless shittalking of Paris.
@@Unlimited_Lives side note, I started listening to "the delta flyers" podcast in which Harry and Tom's actors rewatch voyager episodes and comment on them and add any behind the scenes info. Interestingly, Tom's actor says he viewed Tom as a bad guy and tried to portray him as a bit of a dick. As voyager went on, he realised that wasn't necessarily a good choice and tried to find opportunities to move him away from that and into a better place, which I think you can see as time goes on.
The Doc is absolutely my favourite and Neelix a guilty-pleasure favourite for the reasons given at the end. You REALLY notice the difference when Neelix is actually given good material.
I’m so sorry that malevolent temporal agents are inserting references to the number 47 into Japanese history just to mess with you ☹️ To be fair to whoever amongst the Star Trek: First Contact designers came up with that little back window on the spacesuit helmets though, it’s probably _really_ great for checking the back of someone’s head for injuries (and I guess brain-slugs). These aren’t contemporary astronauts going out in painstakingly planned, controlled missions where even the moderately unexpected happening is terrifying, and traumatic, rather than just another Tuesday.
I wonder if other species that might later encounter the planet would mistake the copies for actual Voyager crew and what effects that might have on the planet especially given how many people Voyager's made enemies of. Also now you've teased us with the possibility of a bipedal Space Dog furr-- uh species. Really liking space dogs animated look :D
Very fuck Paramount at the moment. I'm glad season 2 is still getting completed, but throwing the first season under a bus until it finds a new home is a proper dick move. It's possible this is some sort of licensing thing as it was an agreement with Nickelodeon, but that doesn't stop it being a shit situation. Rok-Tahk did not deserve being done dirty like this.
Deliberately giving non sentient life the minds of their entire crew, nevermind their warp capable ship, including all its Starfleet tech and information, is the most thorough Prime Directive violation in all of Trek and a massive breach of security; lucky for Janeway that they disintegrated before getting the word out to the Federation in probably the bleakest episode in all of Trek. Surprised this usually diligent pedant missed all that.
So, Voyager (and every other Trek ship) use energy on the scale of whole nations today, right? Just vast, astonishing quantities of energy needed to fly across space and power the space guns and create matter out of thin air. Fine, that all makes sense. As does the idea that you can run out of that preposterous amount of energy because of the preposterous amount you consume on a regular basis. But then why, whenever things get dodgy on the power levels front, do they DIM THE LIGHTS? The energy in one second of warp travel should power the lights until the end of the universe! Whenever there's a crisis, the lights should come on MUCH BRIGHTER, so they can work more efficiently to solve the problem! I know we joke about mood lighting, but it'd be a real shame if the ship died because the engineer who could have figured out a solution fell asleep.
I’d also add that they only start to dim the lights and save power just as Voyager is about to start drifting dead in space. Really, given that Voyager doesn’t know when or if it can ever refuel the ship should be on low power all the time. Dimming the lights in a crisis is doubly stupid on the bridge as Paris’ helm chair is on a rail, so in a battle he’ll get thrown out of it because seatbelts aren’t a thing, and have to fly the ship while kneeling on the floor in the dark while getting hit by his own chair!
The bright lights thing has been touched on in the comments before. We've someone here who works in ICU and they said, when shit goes south, the first thing you do is turn the lights on. That's no good for the atmos though, is it?
3:21 this is actually the second incident of Kim's budding personality. The first incident being wanting to ignore orders during "The Omega Directive" They are trying to explain it away as him having kept his mouth shut because he was always in a room with people that outranked him but now he feels like Seven being given more authority than him is just plain rude so he is a little done with authority.
Another commenter mentioned that line in The Omega Directive was originally supposed to be for B'Elanna before Roxann Dawson went into labour. That makes far more sense to me. Still, I agree this example is in keeping with that one.
@Unlimited_Lives Maybe Roxann getting pregnant forced the writers to give Wong more lines. As i said before, as hologram expert belanna and kim could've been swapped during the hirotian episode except for the pregnancy.
Your commentary is far more entertaining than the actual episode to me. Not one of my favorites at all. The ‘sequel’ Course Oblivion was one of the most depressing episodes of the series. Planet Death Trap was a great comment
I really liked the sequel. Stories that end on a down note are rare enough that I enjoy them when it happens. Seveneves is a great example of that. When I re-read it I even stopped it at the end of part 2.
@@Unlimited_Lives well, if you haven’t seen it yet, I’m sorry to give you any preconceived notions, but the title of the episode indicates it’s not going to be a joyful ride. Hope you enjoy it. After multiple viewings, I’m one of those in the minority who am sick of seeing both Fair Haven and Spirit Folk.☮️🖖🦇🙏🏼
@@seeigecannon i understand what you mean. And calling it depressing doesn’t mean I dislike it. Very interesting and it took a while for me to figure out what was going on. They didn’t have enough episodes to follow through storylines for my taste. They never really followed up with those Equinox members who stayed on the starship Voyager as one example
Just curious when they said the hollodecks ran on a separate power grid. God imagine 2 of Tom Paris. I wouldn't ever sign up for allowing a species to make a copy of me, frearing my reaction of waking up realizing I was a copy. Thinking of a game that was well received from a few years back, Soma?? I think? Well hopefully the ship computer is ok but we'll have to tun ein later to see how that shakes out.
That would be in S1E03: Parallax. From Kim - "The holodeck's energy matrix, it just isn't compatible with the other power systems." I've heard of Soma, but not played it. *Checks library* Oh, apparently I own it. Might give that a look...
@@Unlimited_Lives Oh ok. Been a long time since I've seen that one. LOL man that steam library can be ful of games you haven't played. I know mine is. I hope I didn't spoil any of it then.
Possibly. It's twice the temperature seen here, and has acid clouds. I don't know about the radiation discharges, and that's going to be a whole lot of reading. Either way, I probably wouldn't recommend a holiday. *Update*: Trek apparently considers Venus to be N Class. There are also terraforming efforts, it's nhabited, and it's a member of the Federation. Guess I should have checked Trek sources before science sources.
Tbf, modern day Venus DOES melt and crush probes. As far as I'm aware, we've never had a probe last more than a few hours on the surface before losing contact due to breakdown
The Doctor does have his office but I still argue he should have his own virtual environment that doesn't require an actual holographic projection that requires minimal power usage
This premise reminds me of that old season 2 of TNG episode where two they find two lost colonies with humans, one full of irish drunks and the other some geeky clones, and the TNG crew absolutely REFUSE to leave any DNA to help the clone-people, going so far as to murder the clones the clones had made of commander riker and dr pulaski. Making a big speech about how a single clone of them would diminish them tremendously. Here, the whole crew seems perfectly willing to give up their likeness.
There are Serious Problems afoot in the teleport department. Who knows how it'll play out? Not me, that's for sure. I have no idea what'll happen till I get round to writing it.
Wait, so they're having trouble finding deuterium, an isotope of the most common element in the universe, but they're okay on anti-deuterium, a substance there's approximately none of, anywhere?
7:11 That feels like a stretch. More likely, we're just meant to do random math things to the numbers. And who knows what we'd get if we read that as, say, 7 + 5 x 8?
Just because you can run holodeck on separate generators doesn't mean you have too. It's like having a nuclear power station use backup diesel generators to power itself.
Man, I want to like this episode as it has some good ideas and a few good character moments, but there is so much techo-nonsense that sticks out like a sore thumb when you know alittle about tech or engineering. Like, the first thing they mention is being unable to find deuterium... A common isotope of the most common element in the universe. And they keep doing nonsense, like having a probe melt on the planet, but human environment suits and the inside of a shuttle are both just find without any problems. And then the suits somehow being low on oxygen to the point of Tom and Harry being knocked out but lasting presumably at least an hour without dying. It buries an interesting idea (and accidental prime directive violation) and some nice character work being the Doc and Neelix. Also, I thought that, for once, Neelix was being reasonable and Tuvok was being silly about the stuff Neelix was bringing to the mess hall - he was bringing a blanket and a book, neither of which will take up much space, and both of which seem like less than what people behind him are taking. Is sad that the Doc never got a room of his own.
At the end: It sure would be a shame if all of the security clearances of many crew members were copied by an alien. Oh well, at least the alien can only replicate people... and clothing somehow, but would never be able to replicate a whole starship. Also, Star Trek doesn't follow physics in this, but in the real world, (note: I just looked this up) if you were to disable life support then you would have lots of time to live. A completely sealed room that is 30x20x8" would kill a person after 12 days, and that is due to the buildup of CO2 instead of a lack of oxygen. Voyager is very roomy though, so they would be able to get a lot more time than that. If the ship designers were smart and assumed things go wrong every now and then they could also have oxygen candles and chemical CO2 scrubbers in case things got broken and they needed to spend a week returning to a starbase. Now with that said, if life support went offline the heat would be more likely to be fatal. The show occasionally describes how much power things need to function, and it is not a small number. If life support were unable to get rid of the waste heat then they will cook long before anyone even notices a problem with the air.
Tbf, I imagine the cold of space would kill you faster than that - but then I'd be trying to work out how fast an imaginary space ship emits radiative heat and I am just not that nerdy. Side note, there are a few aliens on board would might have harder limits on oxygen/CO2 levels
@@dm121984 I didn't even consider alien air requirements. I did consider black body radiation though, and I figure any working equipment would cause the black body equilibrium to be higher than what's safe for humans. However, that would only apply if they are far away from a star. I just looked it up, and the parts of the ISS that are able to see the sun will hit about 120C. The parts facing away from the sun are about -160C, but radiation would be absorbed faster than it would be emitted.
@@Unlimited_Lives cooking in the summer heat ain't no joke but I'm a boss b!tch lol I got this 💪😁👍thanks for your support and kind words 💚🌹💚 love from Arkansas
@@KingSidJames True. I remember them talking about how they only had something like 47 torpedoes on the whole damn ship (first episode) and throughout the series they fired off 200+ shots if i remember right. That was funny in a laughing at you not with u kind of way. lol
Today's thought experiment: Did Copy Kim mining the deuterium in that silver goop constitute assault?
@@joelellis7035 heavy water is made of deuterium
That depends; is assault as a concept dependant on self awareness? I don't know enough about legal theory to say.
At the very least, the interaction with the minor-link shows that Starfleet perhaps ought to provide refresher courses on the "seek out new life" part of its mandate, as Kim either was poking about a bit too eagerly in order to fall in, or that Kim-II was being a little flexible with the truth when explaining that self-awareness/consciousness/individuality was an unknown concept until the original took a dip, as it would have required a modicum of intent in order "invite" him for a paddle.
yeah, probably lol. wait no, it'd be more like harvesting plants because they don't have central nervous systems. until it touched Kim, at which point, yes, it would begin to approach assault. Janeway phasering the goop on the planet is definitely assault. lol
repli-Kim mining the deuterium is an act of giving of oneself
It's the closest Kim has got to snoo snoo in ages.
The followup to this episode is so sad.
Probably the most depressing one in Voyager.
We look forward to Depressing Episode.
Very much so. Though far better in execution than this.
In this episode, Voyager finds a very hot planet that seems unwelcoming at first, but is really friendly and sweet after all. Ultimately they exchange some fluids and genetic material, and produce new life.
They all lived happily ever after; and there's no episode called "Course Oblivion." :)
1.) The holodeck is still implemented in a stupid way
2.) Why don't they bunk up and save power already, they are stuck at the other end of the galaxy without any supply lines
3.) Seven is demonstrating that she is smart. Again
4.) Beaming stuff is indeed a smarter idea than going down there.
5.) all the whole finding clone Kim and Paris, beaming them up, them getting sick, landing the ship, wandering around the planet, etc has to be done before original Kim and Paris died on the planet from lack of oxygen. Which was down to 30 seconds
5) but you're forgetting that the suit had emergency power. As we all know, electricity makes lungs go.
Joking aside, I gave some thought to how I'd make Paris and Kim still being alive work in the episode. A thin layer of the silver goop over their bodies, protecting them and converting whatever atmosphere is there into oxygen, would have solved the issue. It could also have been an indicator of the goop's altruism and made the ending less questionable. The crew could even have misconstrued its intentions, perhaps phasering it off, to keep the percieved threat level.
Love your intellectual commentary as well as the pedantry that I have wanted to give this show for years. This is content we have all been waiting a decade for. THANK YOU!!
And it's even better since I just recently went through the whole series again, so it's all fresh in my mind.
Cheers! I'm glad you're enjoying them, though I think intellectual might be pushing it.
the way you describe the primordial fluid reminds me of the episode of Enterprise where they got taken over by a bukkake monster lol
My memories of Enterprise consist of:
1) the theme song
2) the biogel smearing scenes on away missions
Odd that a jizzmonster didn't stick in my brain, but there you are.
"Why would anyone steal deuterium, you can find it anywhere" - Tom Paris (but that episode hasn't happened yet)
What, you didn't KNOW that shit about the 47th emperor off the cuff, did you? That's a whole nother level of nerdiness.
The plot of Demon reads like a 1950s Superman story or a rejected TOS season 1 episode. Especially the ending. The Federation is against any kind of genetic alteration or cloning. Riker and Pulaski didn't even blink when they phasered their own clones to death in TNG's Up The Long Ladder. But here, Janeway happily lets herself and the crew get copied by this Silver Blood? Anything for a little free fuel, I suppose.
As for the holodecks getting shut down: they may run on their own power system, but if that system also uses deuterium, it's best to take them offline as well. Can't power a separate engine when there's no fuel after all.
Forcing the Doctor to have house guests in Sick Bay is interesting. Yes, it's an invasion of his privacy, but it was no picnic for Neelix and the others either. Ironically, had he been allowed his own quarters he would have been the only crew member able to stay in his own space even if that deck got shut down. Holograms don't need heat, food or oxygen to survive. Then again, I'm reminded of what his EMH diagnostic tool said in The Swarm: "... You're supposed to be off during your off hours!"
Lastly: I realize it was meant as an info dump for the audience, but Chakotay casually lecturing Seven about a Demon class planet is hilarious mansplaining at its finest. You're talking to the woman who designed and built the Astrometrics lab, commander obvious!
I considered the fuel source for the holodeck reactors, but found no canonical data on it. If it was deuterium, why were the holodecks only now being shut down? We're overthinking it, obviously, but it's a mess.
I certainly agree that the use of the sick bay is reasonable in a crisis. My point is just that his attachment to it could have been lessened had he been given what he asked for. Of course, if there's life support on deck 5 you wouldn't have needed to use the sick bay anyway. There are either 42 or 48 quarters on deck 5 (depending which schematics you're looking at) so 3 in a room solves the whole thing. Unless each room has isolated life support, there's no reason not to.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the infodum. You're right that it's a strained method for delivering plot, but it's necessary. Curious coincidence that you should notice it on Chakotay, as I saw he was getting **very** close to Seven in one of those screenshots (01:27). He was probably directed to of course, but personal space should be an unexplored frontier imo.
3:29 Looks they were expecting this shuttle to crash as they didn’t even bother to paint ‘74656’ on the side!
3:55 Probably… Seven’s spacesuit looks to be moulded to fit her unique physical characteristics…
4:45 Shame these suits don’t have an auto seal feature like the ones on the NX-01 had 200 years ago…
5:28 Don’t know why it’s so hard to find sleeping space on Voyager. In “Displaced” they put up about 100
Nyrians in the cargo bay.
6:45 So environmental suits deteriorate in a Class-Y atmosphere, but the upholstery of the shuttle, who’s door was left open the whole time, was perfectly fine! So maybe make some suits out of whatever they make seats and carpet out of!?
10:29 Again, the upholstery of the biobeds, so say nothing of the medical equipment all around them, is more capable of withstanding Class-Y atmospheres than their environmental suits!
Funny how in TNG, Riker and Pulaski found it abhorrent to be cloned, as did the entire crew according to Picard, yet we’re supposed to believe that most of Voyager’s crew agreed to leave clones of themselves on this barren planet?
Maybe that's why Neelix always wears suits that look like upholstery...
@@Unlimited_Lives Didn’t help him against the macrovirus jizz though!
@@Unlimited_Lives another reviewer of the Tuvix episode made me laugh because he pointed out that the transporter combined their clothing, and was like "no no no, you are not combining Neelix's horrible outfit with star fleet pajamas and getting anything wearable - it would be demon clothing, eating clothing and shitting them out as polyester"
3:49 Maybe the windows in the back (and top) are for medical reasons. Or it can be adapted for the skull structure of different species. Or it allows light in from the back (or top) in for some type of protocol reasons.
Hmm... tricorder scan access for medical reasons possibly, if we consider the suit and helmet material to be resistant to forms of radiation. Not a bad idea.
@@Unlimited_Lives I didn't menation Andorian in my previous comment. (I didn't want to look up the spelling). But Andorian do have those antennas. And I did noticed a window in the front. So it could be module to adapt to Andorian for extra space for their antennas. Maybe some spices need extra space in the back, like you hinted at.
@@Unlimited_Lives Also, a visual inspection of the skull can be useful in some circumstances.
The one reason the shuttle didn’t crash is because it wasn’t piloted by Chakotay. Honestly, by the end of the show there were two things I was still amazed by -
1. That Janeway still let him anywhere near a shuttle.
And 2. Tuvok hadn’t snapped in a Vulcan way and told Neelix that after seven years he should damn well know that his name isn’t Mr Vulcan.
No problem, they have an endless supply of shuttles.
The science in this episode is well not very scientific but I love it all the same for it’s entertainment value and the pay off that comes later. I like the core concept of new life form experiencing consciousness for the first time. The real Paris and Kim being found alive after quite some time with out oxygen or intact suits to protect them from radiation and temperature hot enough to melt them is so implausible it needs a little more attention paid to it then ‘backups’ I would leave been interesting if they had explored the possibility that the planet somehow kept them alive not understanding it’s new found sentients but sensing that it felt important to keep them alive with out understanding why.
Ooh, I just responded elsewhere with something similar. Pasting...
"Joking aside, I gave some thought to how I'd make Paris and Kim still being alive work in the episode. A thin layer of the silver goop over their bodies, protecting them and converting whatever atmosphere is there into oxygen, would have solved the issue. It could also have been an indicator of the goop's altruism and made the ending less questionable. The crew could even have misconstrued its intentions, perhaps phasering it off, to keep the percieved threat level."
Delighted to see I'm not the only one who considered it.
7:32 - Isn't Seven supposed to have super-Borg strength? Why is pulling someone up from a ledge a difficulty?
I will always appreciate a story where the crew encounter a life form that is genuinely alien, as opposed to just "A bit like the Romans/Aztecs/Inuit/Chinese (at least as understood by American scriptwriters) with rubber on their faces". Of course, the science is complete bollocks, but I do give them props for the idea.
Yup! I'll put up with a lot if the alien is **ACTUALLY** alien.
@@Unlimited_Lives what do you mean? The Klingons and Romulans are aliens... Not just guys with crap superglued to their foreheads... Honest...
Wooohooo, a really awesome episode. Just got home from work. Time to watch it.
I’m loving these, as these feel how I do when watching episodes… and the commentary (unwanted), I provide my wife … lol😂
"And the lack of oxygen hasn't done him any harm either. He tells them that he was dying, but then didn't, which is pretty bloody selfish of him frankly." I appreciate the relentless shittalking of Paris.
I understand my audience.
@@Unlimited_Lives side note, I started listening to "the delta flyers" podcast in which Harry and Tom's actors rewatch voyager episodes and comment on them and add any behind the scenes info. Interestingly, Tom's actor says he viewed Tom as a bad guy and tried to portray him as a bit of a dick. As voyager went on, he realised that wasn't necessarily a good choice and tried to find opportunities to move him away from that and into a better place, which I think you can see as time goes on.
I rather wish that Sarah Silverman's description of Paris as 'Howdy Doody in space' was frequently mentioned for the rest of the series!
YAY! Once again.....
Another banger!
Great work!
Cheers!
The Doc is absolutely my favourite and Neelix a guilty-pleasure favourite for the reasons given at the end. You REALLY notice the difference when Neelix is actually given good material.
Fav phrase of the day "Unsuited Kim"
I’m so sorry that malevolent temporal agents are inserting references to the number 47 into Japanese history just to mess with you ☹️ To be fair to whoever amongst the Star Trek: First Contact designers came up with that little back window on the spacesuit helmets though, it’s probably _really_ great for checking the back of someone’s head for injuries (and I guess brain-slugs). These aren’t contemporary astronauts going out in painstakingly planned, controlled missions where even the moderately unexpected happening is terrifying, and traumatic, rather than just another Tuesday.
At this point, I have to assume all historical instances of 47 are the work of Captain Braxton.
I wonder if other species that might later encounter the planet would mistake the copies for actual Voyager crew and what effects that might have on the planet especially given how many people Voyager's made enemies of.
Also now you've teased us with the possibility of a bipedal Space Dog furr-- uh species. Really liking space dogs animated look :D
*stares in Star Trek Prodigy*
Yeah, Animated Space Dog. Imagine thaaaaaat...
Very fuck Paramount at the moment. I'm glad season 2 is still getting completed, but throwing the first season under a bus until it finds a new home is a proper dick move.
It's possible this is some sort of licensing thing as it was an agreement with Nickelodeon, but that doesn't stop it being a shit situation. Rok-Tahk did not deserve being done dirty like this.
Deliberately giving non sentient life the minds of their entire crew, nevermind their warp capable ship, including all its Starfleet tech and information, is the most thorough Prime Directive violation in all of Trek and a massive breach of security; lucky for Janeway that they disintegrated before getting the word out to the Federation in probably the bleakest episode in all of Trek. Surprised this usually diligent pedant missed all that.
So, Voyager (and every other Trek ship) use energy on the scale of whole nations today, right? Just vast, astonishing quantities of energy needed to fly across space and power the space guns and create matter out of thin air. Fine, that all makes sense. As does the idea that you can run out of that preposterous amount of energy because of the preposterous amount you consume on a regular basis.
But then why, whenever things get dodgy on the power levels front, do they DIM THE LIGHTS? The energy in one second of warp travel should power the lights until the end of the universe! Whenever there's a crisis, the lights should come on MUCH BRIGHTER, so they can work more efficiently to solve the problem!
I know we joke about mood lighting, but it'd be a real shame if the ship died because the engineer who could have figured out a solution fell asleep.
I’d also add that they only start to dim the lights and save power just as Voyager is about to start drifting dead in space. Really, given that Voyager doesn’t know when or if it can ever refuel the ship should be on low power all the time.
Dimming the lights in a crisis is doubly stupid on the bridge as Paris’ helm chair is on a rail, so in a battle he’ll get thrown out of it because seatbelts aren’t a thing, and have to fly the ship while kneeling on the floor in the dark while getting hit by his own chair!
The bright lights thing has been touched on in the comments before. We've someone here who works in ICU and they said, when shit goes south, the first thing you do is turn the lights on. That's no good for the atmos though, is it?
So question, that little bit of goo could make an entire Tom Paris, but could only make a Torres thumb?
Becuase Paris is a hollow shell of a man.
3:21 this is actually the second incident of Kim's budding personality. The first incident being wanting to ignore orders during "The Omega Directive"
They are trying to explain it away as him having kept his mouth shut because he was always in a room with people that outranked him but now he feels like Seven being given more authority than him is just plain rude so he is a little done with authority.
Another commenter mentioned that line in The Omega Directive was originally supposed to be for B'Elanna before Roxann Dawson went into labour. That makes far more sense to me.
Still, I agree this example is in keeping with that one.
@Unlimited_Lives Maybe Roxann getting pregnant forced the writers to give Wong more lines.
As i said before, as hologram expert belanna and kim could've been swapped during the hirotian episode except for the pregnancy.
Your commentary is far more entertaining than the actual episode to me. Not one of my favorites at all. The ‘sequel’ Course Oblivion was one of the most depressing episodes of the series. Planet Death Trap was a great comment
Curshingly depressing? Sounds like a banger. We look forward to it.
I really liked the sequel. Stories that end on a down note are rare enough that I enjoy them when it happens. Seveneves is a great example of that. When I re-read it I even stopped it at the end of part 2.
@@Unlimited_Lives well, if you haven’t seen it yet, I’m sorry to give you any preconceived notions, but the title of the episode indicates it’s not going to be a joyful ride. Hope you enjoy it. After multiple viewings, I’m one of those in the minority who am sick of seeing both Fair Haven and Spirit Folk.☮️🖖🦇🙏🏼
@@seeigecannon i understand what you mean. And calling it depressing doesn’t mean I dislike it. Very interesting and it took a while for me to figure out what was going on. They didn’t have enough episodes to follow through storylines for my taste. They never really followed up with those Equinox members who stayed on the starship Voyager as one example
Just curious when they said the hollodecks ran on a separate power grid. God imagine 2 of Tom Paris. I wouldn't ever sign up for allowing a species to make a copy of me, frearing my reaction of waking up realizing I was a copy. Thinking of a game that was well received from a few years back, Soma?? I think? Well hopefully the ship computer is ok but we'll have to tun ein later to see how that shakes out.
That would be in S1E03: Parallax. From Kim - "The holodeck's energy matrix, it just isn't compatible with the other power systems."
I've heard of Soma, but not played it. *Checks library* Oh, apparently I own it. Might give that a look...
@@Unlimited_Lives Oh ok. Been a long time since I've seen that one. LOL man that steam library can be ful of games you haven't played. I know mine is. I hope I didn't spoil any of it then.
I've always wondered if Venus would be considered demon class in trek?
Possibly. It's twice the temperature seen here, and has acid clouds. I don't know about the radiation discharges, and that's going to be a whole lot of reading. Either way, I probably wouldn't recommend a holiday.
*Update*: Trek apparently considers Venus to be N Class. There are also terraforming efforts, it's nhabited, and it's a member of the Federation. Guess I should have checked Trek sources before science sources.
Tbf, modern day Venus DOES melt and crush probes. As far as I'm aware, we've never had a probe last more than a few hours on the surface before losing contact due to breakdown
The Doctor does have his office but I still argue he should have his own virtual environment that doesn't require an actual holographic projection that requires minimal power usage
5:06 its not like he really had any time to share oxygen
I assume the holodecks are on a separate power supply, but they just don't top up it's fuel when they're in danger mode.
Huh, so THAT'S what the Y in class Y stands for...🤔. Makes sense.
In that case the M in M class must mean....Mcdonalds!
Neelix's Cooking could destroy Borg Cubes with ease
If Voyager could just launch Leola Root soup out of the torpedo racks...
lol how long on Wikipedia did it take you to find a 47 reference? that's amazing
Complete accident. I wanted to see what happened in that year just to make a silly gag and the world gave me a 47.
This premise reminds me of that old season 2 of TNG episode where two they find two lost colonies with humans, one full of irish drunks and the other some geeky clones, and the TNG crew absolutely REFUSE to leave any DNA to help the clone-people, going so far as to murder the clones the clones had made of commander riker and dr pulaski. Making a big speech about how a single clone of them would diminish them tremendously. Here, the whole crew seems perfectly willing to give up their likeness.
well, captain sort of makes that decision for them, but still. Her opinion seems to be that hey couldn't possibly mind.
Sooo, are Space Dog & Voyager's Computer a Tuvix now or...? I'm sorry, maybe I'm just too tired at the moment. 😅
Don't tell Janeway that. She has a reputation to maintain.
There are Serious Problems afoot in the teleport department. Who knows how it'll play out?
Not me, that's for sure. I have no idea what'll happen till I get round to writing it.
Huh I thought for some reason you already did this episode or maybe im losing it
Not unless I got some numbers very wrong indeed...
Wait, so they're having trouble finding deuterium, an isotope of the most common element in the universe, but they're okay on anti-deuterium, a substance there's approximately none of, anywhere?
7:11 That feels like a stretch. More likely, we're just meant to do random math things to the numbers. And who knows what we'd get if we read that as, say, 7 + 5 x 8?
Oh, I'm not convinced it's intentional. I was trying to find something to be irreverent and stumbled on a 47. How could I pass that up?
I know. I was sneaking in another 47.
How can't they replicate the conditions of the planet when the doctor was able to recreate the conditions in the sickbay?? 😂
Also what about the holodeck??
Just because you can run holodeck on separate generators doesn't mean you have too.
It's like having a nuclear power station use backup diesel generators to power itself.
That is one deep cut 47.
Woof.
WOOF.
O, bludy L, its anima'ed bleedin' etc and soforth.
Deuterium is incidently the second most common Isotope in the Universe, after regular Hyrogen... i mean Hydrogen.
Oh my... Goo is plot Armour
Man, I want to like this episode as it has some good ideas and a few good character moments, but there is so much techo-nonsense that sticks out like a sore thumb when you know alittle about tech or engineering. Like, the first thing they mention is being unable to find deuterium... A common isotope of the most common element in the universe. And they keep doing nonsense, like having a probe melt on the planet, but human environment suits and the inside of a shuttle are both just find without any problems. And then the suits somehow being low on oxygen to the point of Tom and Harry being knocked out but lasting presumably at least an hour without dying.
It buries an interesting idea (and accidental prime directive violation) and some nice character work being the Doc and Neelix. Also, I thought that, for once, Neelix was being reasonable and Tuvok was being silly about the stuff Neelix was bringing to the mess hall - he was bringing a blanket and a book, neither of which will take up much space, and both of which seem like less than what people behind him are taking.
Is sad that the Doc never got a room of his own.
At the end: It sure would be a shame if all of the security clearances of many crew members were copied by an alien. Oh well, at least the alien can only replicate people... and clothing somehow, but would never be able to replicate a whole starship.
Also, Star Trek doesn't follow physics in this, but in the real world, (note: I just looked this up) if you were to disable life support then you would have lots of time to live. A completely sealed room that is 30x20x8" would kill a person after 12 days, and that is due to the buildup of CO2 instead of a lack of oxygen. Voyager is very roomy though, so they would be able to get a lot more time than that. If the ship designers were smart and assumed things go wrong every now and then they could also have oxygen candles and chemical CO2 scrubbers in case things got broken and they needed to spend a week returning to a starbase. Now with that said, if life support went offline the heat would be more likely to be fatal. The show occasionally describes how much power things need to function, and it is not a small number. If life support were unable to get rid of the waste heat then they will cook long before anyone even notices a problem with the air.
Tbf, I imagine the cold of space would kill you faster than that - but then I'd be trying to work out how fast an imaginary space ship emits radiative heat and I am just not that nerdy.
Side note, there are a few aliens on board would might have harder limits on oxygen/CO2 levels
@@dm121984 I didn't even consider alien air requirements. I did consider black body radiation though, and I figure any working equipment would cause the black body equilibrium to be higher than what's safe for humans. However, that would only apply if they are far away from a star. I just looked it up, and the parts of the ISS that are able to see the sun will hit about 120C. The parts facing away from the sun are about -160C, but radiation would be absorbed faster than it would be emitted.
😁👍
Have a good week! Hope the new job is treating you well!
@@Unlimited_Lives cooking in the summer heat ain't no joke but I'm a boss b!tch lol I got this
💪😁👍thanks for your support and kind words 💚🌹💚 love from Arkansas
Oh dear. This weird episode was the setup for one of the worst episodes of voyager later in the series.
First!
You know the rules. Into the Soylent machine you go so that we may all grok you in your fullness.
whats up with 47? is that some repeating theme in Voyager?
It's the writers in joke that's really only funny to them.
@@KingSidJames True. I remember them talking about how they only had something like 47 torpedoes on the whole damn ship (first episode) and throughout the series they fired off 200+ shots if i remember right.
That was funny in a laughing at you not with u kind of way. lol
@travisjohnson622 Yes, the worst sort of Star Trek wankery.
I looked up the source of the joke, and I was not disappointed by its lameness.