Making a straight edge blank Part 1/2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- A friend asked me if I could machine him a blank for a straight edge that he could then finish by scraping - He provided a piece of cast iron. Unforseen problems made the project a bit more involved and I show a little scraping with the Renz A20 powerscraper.
Stefan this type of metalworking video is rare and much appreciated. Keep up the great work.
Don’t encourage him.
WOW, Shaper action and Scraping in the same video.
For me this is metal working at it's finest.
Cheers Eric
Hello Stefan, your work and videos are fascinating to observe, You keep making them and I for one will keep watching them. Thank you very kindly for allowing me to see your craftmanship.
andrew stoddard Thank you for the support :)
Nice work Stefan, very impressive. I am working on scraping a medium (2000+ kg) milling machine from the 1940's as my first major project, and it's good to see different people's techniques up close. Thank you for taking all the time to show your work, maybe you've inspired me to do the same.
Finally something I know on a machining video. Those inking rollers are for applying a thin, even layer of ink to a stamp or plate.
Robert Szasz I feel your pain man. there's so many extremely talented machining guys on youtube sometimes I feel smart just for finding the play button to the video. learn something everyday.
I have an old straight piece of cast iron I've thought about making into a straight edge. Thank you for showing me how. I have a friend near by that has been to the King class, and is competent. I appreciate this video series.
I love videos like this. It's very helpful to see the whole process and hear what you are thinking as you do it. Thanks very much!
Pest789 Thank you! I am also learing in the process of doing that, today I tried a bit of a different aproach in scraping and got much better results, will show that in Part 2 - Thanks for commenting! :)
Fascinating to see this, which I have never seen before how to make a surface flat. I look forward to the next video. Superb.
Hey Stefan, love the shaper, the two directions of clapper boxes and nice scrapping in my opinion. cheers, ;{)-------
Thank you Keith!
Ps: Wish you a speedy recover :)
Thanks STEFAN
This is a painstakingly patient project only producing the finest in precision as the ultimate product !!!
Even these words don't do justice to the tremendous effort that goes into SCRAPING.
And only U can do it with the ultimate care and attention to detail
We have seen pics of Scraped and Restored Machines, but not HOW it's done.
And this, for the umpteenth time, was again another of those ....."so that's how it's done" superb Videos.
Well done, young Man. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to Part 2
aRM
I have learnt scraping at a Technical college in Australia. It was done by hand, though we did many passes, we were not able to achieve the goal of putting two scraped surfaces together and twisting them 90deg and have them stick together. I had not seen the scraper machine you had, very nice piece of work and great idea!! I like your pursuit of perfection, thank you
Jonathan
Thank you so much for all your efforts in providing such informative video's. They are very much appreciated.
Blown away with your skill and diligence. So many techniques. Thank you for sharing.
I love this stuff and I love how meticulous you are. Thanks!
Love the shaper. Fascinating to watch the scraping procedure. German know-how!! Thanks for sharing.
"There will always be stresses"
My life Stefan... my life
Thanks for the shaper and scraping lessons. I attempt to level the surface with sandpaper as a roughing then proceed to the scraper, this seems to help me not over scrape and make hollows on the previous high spots.
The roller you're using is called a brayer, and it is used in printmaking; woodcut, etching, etc. Thanks for the many and continuing videos, your work in quite interesting.
Eli Griggs … the funny thing is that granite slab is likely flatter than anything that tool would have ever seen in its (originally) intended industry. Perhaps they should cross-market to machinists too.
beautiful shaper. I have interviewed recently for a job (machinist) and the engineer on the job did not understand a shaper or planner mill. Thanks for hanging on to our beautiful past. belongs in the front room as it's a price of art.
Really enjoying your channel Stefan. I appreciate the care you show in your work, your tools and your shop. Great videos!
Peter Owens Thank you for dropping by and leaving a comment :)
I've always loved shaper work. Both hogging and finish work, with one exception. We used to make gibs for presses from Ampco Bronze (CU, AL & FE). It would be going along really nice and all of a sudden the stress would make the material go alike a banana. Not on every job but often enough to keep one his toes. The roller is called a "brayer". Used for print making involving copper plates. Hope you keep your HySpot in a container or plastic bag when not in use!
With regards to scraping, this is definitely one of the better videos, good work.
One of the other methods that relate to this, is the 3-plate methods of making flat surfaces. Have you ever considered making a video on that method? That would be (as far as i know) the furthest you can go back to the origin of flat surfaces.
There are a few videos on the 3-plate method, but none are as lucid as the videos you make ;-)
I managed to make a straightedge from scratch using the three straightedge rotation/scrape method. came out pretty accurate I think for a first time. can't fit even a .001 feeler in between the three edges, so I think I did it right.
I appreciate the introduction to this skill. I am fascinated with the series of techniques
I fins the silent movie motif quite hilarious, well done!
Great work Stefan
The quality of your work and your polite character make for some of the greatest home machinists videos on u tube
Great work , keep it up 👍🏻
I must have an inner German because I love all of your videos Stefan.
Some mounths ago I wanted to make a master like that to adjust the toolpost ways of my chino-german lathe. But at the end I surrender before starting. I envy you that have the right stuff and machine to do that. Good job.
Cosimo Marotta Aww, come on, a cheap chinese tombstone (surface plate..), a handscraper and some spotting blue is all thats needed to start. And patience :D
More machines and tools just make it a bit less tedious :)
Truly appreciate you sharing this and the rest of your videos. Enjoy watching Not a commercial masquerading as content.
Wow, learned something today! Great video, thanks for sharing.
Love the process. I build tools, straight and true is the only way to do it. It takes what it takes.
thanks! I enjoy your videos, I have some machine tools that I do use for my hobby and I learn from you.
Enjoyed this episode... didn't expect you to break out the power scraper so that was a treat to watch. Hopeful that I can find one someday for a reasonable price.
Jeffrey Pfeifer At least here in germany they show up from time to time on ebay for a reasonable price :)
Stefan Gotteswinter dare I ask, what is a reasonable price for a power scraper?
Stefan, great video and explanation of what you are trying to accomplish. Keep them coming.
Ron Hubbard Thanks for that comment - I am somethimes not sure if that what I talk makes sense, especially as english is not my native language :)
Stefan Gotteswinter Your English is fine. Just appreciate you taking your time to publish in English.
Yes this is extremely interesting. This is a lost art. I’ve only seen one other video of a man scraping. He was building parts for a locomotive refurbishment in the US. Thank you for your very well made and extremely detailed videos.
I love it when I learn something new. Thanks
Hi Stefan, new subscriber to your chanel. Just a treat to watch your work, my father is a machinist, now retired, and it reminds me of his enthusiasm in his workshop when i was little. I like your statement about having the time at home to do things in the old time consuming way. I feel the same way when i'm in my garage, just doing things for my own satisfaction. To let your hands do stuff is just as important as letting your brain work (which i normaly do at work, so to say)... Again, thank you for the videos.
I am seven years late to the party but this is a great video!
Thank you!
Thanks for showing us the basics of scraping. I have heard of it, but never seen it done in a video or in person.
A very instructive video!
Thank you for uploading.
Ha Stefan what a great video that is the first I have seen scraping it that extent looking forward to the next part or parts of this. Awesome keep it going.
Dave
Like the videos. Well explained. We had a shaping machine at college that got a chance to use a few times for course work that we had to do but now I wish I had more of a chance to use it so I understood it better. Keep up the videos.
At the time we were thinking that the grinder's, lathe's, milling machines would be what we expected to use back at our employers premises. It's a shame that TH-cam wasn't around when I was doing my apprenticeship as this would have made some things easier to grasp and understand. But at the same time learn on the job the hard way by mistake and that way you definitely won't make that error again. Lol.
Hi Stefan, never seen this done before, was great to watch TFS "thanks for sharing" G :)
Congratulation to those 3 jaws. Beautiful job and your Précision is remarkable
Danke Sehr
That Old Bob
Still loving the videos, your presentation and skill is superb.
I like the fact you vacuum rather than blow the cast every where
It seems to me when the chips are blown they just need to cleaned up a second time also you seem to locate these smaller pieces of equipment for your limited space rather than giant machines
Were the average guy doesnt have a warehouse thanks for sharing your time
Very interesting Stefan, didn't understand scraping before I watched this video - but I do now!
Quite a bit of setup goes in to operating the shaper, but, it's worth it, that machine will probably outlast most of us here because of it.
Interesting sound the sound the cast iron does on a shaper.
The roller is used in lithography (and other similar applications), you spread ink over the original and then put the paper over.
The powerscraper is a very interesting tool, i've seen something like it before, but it was used in another application so i never thought it could be used for this.
aserta Yes, a lot of spots to keep clean and lubricate, but its also a quite satisfying process :)
Are you talking of the squeeking noise when I cut the bevel on the part? I think that was because of the large overhang on the toolbit, that caused it to vibrate on a high pitch - I put hearing protection on after a while...
Good to know what the roller is used for if somebody asks me that question.
I love that powerscraper - It should not be mistaken with one of those scraping tools Bosch or Black&Decker makes, those are just for removing glue and old carpet but useless for precision scraping. The Biax and Renz shapers are specialised tools for machine rebuilders that normaly, if you cant get a used one are just horrible expensive.
But all that could of course be done with a hand scraper - I did my whole lathe that way and also a few workholding devices.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Stefan Gotteswinter Yup, that noise, but you're right, it's probably the overhang.
No, it wasn't a Bosch, nothing modern, it was old and beat up, very blocky (so probably something pre 90's and the guy who was using it was shaping square grooves with it in 3 cm thick plate. I've no idea what the machine's brand was, aluminium housing and like i said, very beat up.
The tool at the end was a piece of very hard steel (i believe) shaped like a square cutting drill but without the actual drill inside, just the outer shell.
If i manage to go that shop again i'll try and see if there's any markings on it.
As for watching and commenting, always a pleasure! Thank you for taking time to make these really awesome videos. :)
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this video. There is not a great lot of scraping videos about. And who can go past shaper action when presented with it?
Thank You very very much for taking the time to make this video.
Matt
Keep up the great work Stefan. Really interesting to follow along. I really would like one of those shapers in my shop after watching you make suck great use of yours.
Allen McFarlen Every household needs a lathe and a shaper ;)
Just hacked a 55 from an old sash weight.
Got one side pretty close.
Got the other side half way, and the first side goes banana...
Repeat...
Grr!!!
So ive tried slowly heating to cherry red followed by a day of cooling in the kiln, three cycles.
So far, it seems to have done the trick. Last nights pattern doesnt seem to have altered after hitting the other side.
Next time i might find something a bit... thicker. Better...
I knew it was meant to be a bit of an issue, but until you experience it...
*vague recollections of cincinnatti leaving castings for up to a decade after rough machining*
Excellent work, and wonderful video. Thank you.
Love this scraping video
Love it! Keep up the great videos.....
I just found your videos. They are great keep up the good work. Thank you for your efforts.
great stuff Stefan. Can't wait to see the next part.
Keep going, you are doing a great job, I learned alot, thanks! I have to try this.
I like seeing the scraping. I have seen scraping with patterns mainly for oil retention. I guess you just kind of scrape in the pattern you want in those cases?
bcbloc02 Hmm! Some machinerebuilders gring the ways of machines and then just "flake" it with an pattern for oil retention, but some do the whole geometry by scraping. There are a lot methods and ways of doing it :)
On the end for a machine way you want a flat surface with an good percentage of highspots and a place for the oil to stay :)
Excellent presentation Kieth. For you aparently anything less than prefect is unacceptable. Now my most watched site.
Bob
Nice work and nice video as well, Stefan!
25 passes of scraping.. that's quite a lot. I don't know if I have the patience for that. Good work.
Alot of work, must be a good mate.
So valuable stuff on this video ! Thanks, Stefan !
That was a very good video on this project..I have a 24" shaper but did not know there was a reverse clapper box.
Very interested love your videos
Stefan, Please excuse my ignorance, but why this technique instead of a surface grinder?
Among other reasons, I suspect the chief one is that Stefan didn't have a surface grinder yet when these videos were made. This went up about 15 months before he picked up his Lip 515.
Your voice is therapeutic
Very nice work. That seemed to take a very long time to finish. Thanks for the video.
cerberus Thank you :)
Yes, scraping is not the fastest process..but the results speak for themself - With a pretty simple toolset (speaking of a handscraper, the powerscraper is a bit more involved...) you can achive very accurate surfaces.
Hey, very nice your videos! I am scrapping a cheapo Chinese mill and because I don't have a Biax power scrapper I bought a reciprocating saw at Harbor Freight and made some modifications on it to decrease the stroke length and to attach a blade, it is working ok, for 19,99 is working great. It is saving me a lot of work, but still very labor intensive to scrape the whole mill, specially because those chinese mills ways are really bad.
Very nice!
Great video
Nilton Polydoro
Very enjoyable Stefan....! Thanks.
That shaper is a beauty
F22xSTEALTHx I absolutely agree :)
That dark green color looks pretty good.
You're a very talented young man... Have watched and thoroughly enjoyed many of your videos. Thanks for sharing your work, it's definitely motivational!Looks like your first or second pass with scraping went a little too heavy just off center along one edge, which left a little bit of a noticeable low spot. Even with that, excellent work! Way better than I could have hope to do. Would love to take one of Richard King's training courses as you've done (some time after this video was shot IIRC).Thanks again for sharing...
Loving this stuff Stefan. Thanks.
great use of a rare machine, just wished you could have shown us more on how to set up cutters, stroke, etc. as there is very few video's on these machines, and the ones "up" are done by toolmakers, and the like; who by that very nature "know it all" and for some reason are not willing to tell us. this machine looks like a very nice and well kept example, thanks.
I looked you up after seeing your appearance in This old Tony's video. There is something almost calming about your video if your others are like this I'll be a subscriber.
Print making, wood blocks are what they are for
Any particular reason for using the shaper instead of a milling machine? Does it just provide a better (more consistent) surface finish to reduce the amount of scraping?
That is exactly why. Shaper surface finishes can be amazing, and they're so consistent. It's a really solid base for a scraping procedure.
"famous last words" i felt that.. lol
I've always wondered yf a robot with a vision system could do a better job scraping the surfaces.
Great Work, very enjoyable
First time I have ever seen a shaper machine cut on the backstroke.
More information here: gtwr.de/ressources/res_gack_rueckwaertshobelkopf/index.html
:)
Please forgive my ignorance, but why wouldn't the chamfer / beveling work with the 'pull' clapper box?
Stefan, great video, but one question: I've seen you use your Renz scraper, could you tell us more about it and where someone from the UK can look to find and purchase them, thanks Dan
Stefan, very enjoyable video. I am very much the beginner in scraping but I do have a couple of hundred hours of hand scraping under my belt. My observation is that the power scraper may be too aggressive. After the first pass hand scraping would not have eliminated the central bumps like that and it seemed like you were making new hollows. In hand scraping you tend to be more judicious on how much material you remove on each pass. I too have been self taught which means I may not have learned anything but I do not like making extra work for myself. Keep the videos coming. Russ
Russell Thornton Thank you for the comment - As for the agressiveness of the powerscraper, in fact one (not me..) can work to an incredible fine surface finish with one of those, the very even stroke makes it more easy to get somewhat of an even pattern. I realy have a hard time to get a descent finish by handscraping (I did my fair share of it on a toolmakers block, my lathe and my drillpress) but I found out that I get way better results with the powerscraper.
But as you I am mostly self taught and a person like Richard King might just close his eyes and walk away if he sees what I do there. I also will try to get working with a pull scraper worked out, but first I have to make one.
we like it! Thanks for the show!
Amazing job. I have a question would you prefer a Milling machine over a sharpener for Straight edge Accuracy?
Great video, your channel is one of my favorite ones, I always await eagerly
your next video :)
It’s nice to see some scraping because there aren’t many videos on TH-cam about it, especially scraping with a machine. Please show us more.
Since lapped surfaces don’t hold the dye for spotting, do you have to scrape your surfaces always with “push scraping” or is a “draw scraped” surface also good at retaining dye.
Have you tried using a spotting paste like Japanese scrapers often use?
Philipp Aznable Thank you for that compliment! Unfortunately there is something like a mythical thing around scraping, but in my mind ist just a craft that has to be practiced and understood...People like Richard King that are very generous with their informations help making it a popular technique again!Good question about the pull scraping, I dont know if that surfaces would hold the dye for spotting - I dont own a pull type scraper, but I will make one for myself to try it out.
Same on the spotting paste, I only have the Dykem HighSpotBlue (I like it, but its hard to obtain here in germany, as its not sold here - Only in Austria) and the german Diamant spotting blue (That gives a very feint spotting and its hard to read).
"I'm using one of these rollers I got at the art store, I don't know what they are really for"
They're for pretty much the same thing: spreading ink onto plates for printing. I did this in high school, you carve a design into a sheet of aluminum (or wood or copper), then roll the ink on, and use a clean roller to roll the ink off so it remains in the grooves; then when you press the paper against the plate it wicks up the ink from the plate.
puddingpimp Thank you for the description of that process, I was not familiar with that.
I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge. It gives a good feel as to how to get great results with hand methods.
What is the advantage of scaping the surface, when the item could be placed on the surface grinder for a perfectly flat finish?
Scraping is so interesting. I am sure many have thought of getting results accomplishing the same thing. Watching some scraping right after some shot peening stress relieving made me think.
Is there a process for hardened items that may leave a refined texture that acts like hand flake. Could moderately deep shot peen combined with near polish low temperature grinding result in a very slippery machine mating surface?
Hi Stefan,
Very interesting, this is probably the best way to get something truly straight, did you add the hours needed to make the part?
Would you also consider lapping the part as a final step?
I really enjoy seeing someone that isn't a pro showing the learning progress and getting decent results.
Thanks, Pierre
pierre beaudry So far about 3 hours machining time and 3 hours handscraping.
Lapping can produce a absolutely true and flat surface, but as a master straight edge for spotting parts that would not work - To hold the highspot blue it needs the valleys created by the handscraping. A ground or lapped straight edge would just smear the color and adhere to the to-be-spotted surface.
Thanks for commenting, Pierre :)
Very interesting - could you not have put it back on your shaper to scrape it back straight ?
Do you think it could be possible to use two kinds of dies?... to identify lower or higher spots based on their depth?
Maybe with different viscoscities... that could make machine vision much easier.
Always enjoy your work. Wondering why a scraped surface instead of lapped surface?
Yet another interesting video, one question though, if you had a surface grinder would you have used it for application instead of scrapping?
Chris Stephens Yes and No. The surface grinder would make short work of creating a flat surface but it would still have to be flaked with the scraper to get usable as a master surface for highspotting.
I bow to your greater knowledge in such matters as I have never done any serious scrapping.
One thing regarding residual stress... didn't the Moore book say in its first chapter that cast iron can be made highly stable, and with minimum internal stress? Wayne Moore even disagree with the idea that castings needs to be seasoned. I personally feel it almost impossible to believe...
Hi Stefan,
You are truly a great craftsman. I do find your content very interesting and you are inspiring to me. Keep up the great work on your channel. By the way the is a beautiful shaper that you have.
Mike Sportsman Thank you very much!
I will try to keep the videos coming, but editing is truely time consuming - But there are a few videos in the line :)