i stumbled across the video on your slab when i found out about this technique the other day and i find it very satisfying and relaxing. i do a fair amount of woodworking and the like as a hobby but i’m currently spending the year abroad and haven’t been able to do much. definitely miss it and watching makers online has been nice. thanks for a wonderful video of a fascinating art i never knew existed. it’s really interesting to see.
You did an outstanding job from start to finish, parallel surfaces even distribution of bearing points. YOUR FROSTING METHOD IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM MINE, BUT THE RESULTS ARE THE SAME AS OIL WILL SPREAD ACROSS THE ENTIRE BEARING SURFACE WHICH WILL EFFICIENTLY REMOVE GRIT AND LUBRICATE EVEYTHING WHICH WILL DELAY OLD AGE FROM SETTING IN. WELL DONE!!!!
Thanks so much for your feedback! Highly appreciated! I guess there are so many different styles of scraping, that have evolved over years. But I really enjoy that fact - it's awesome that every company and every country around the world has a slightly different approach. Just awesome! Cheers mate!
Great video, very relaxing music and great Fahrrad ride midway. My scrapping started well in 1st project, then went downhill, now I’m improving again. I’m particularly happy because I’m making a 60 degrees straight edge for dovetails and was breaking my head to figure out the final shape. Will do like you did: a rectangle, then slope one face to 60, leaving the opposite it with two right angles. Will also grind a 140 and a 90 radius carbide insert for roughening. I have converted a reciprocating saw with 13mm (1/2”) stroke to a rough power scraper. Ordered another bevel gear to try to make it adjustable and maybe be able to finish power scrape (2mm stroke) with it. Thanks for the video!
I make the same sort of wood fixtures to hold the small parts I scrape as well. They work very well. I also use the tap method of making sure things are indeed sitting flat. In my humble opinion very nice patient precise work. Cheers.
Lots of different techniques for scraping. Personally, I like the look of curl scraping finished off with a nice hand "bump" flake with a signature pattern. Old time machine tool manufacturers each had their own style of flaking.
love the dedication, can you make a video/tutorial on how to sharpen the scraper insert also is it possible to scrap mild steel, the insert kinda slips on it
Где то я Вам завидую ,что можно так посидеть ,пошкрябать в своё удовольствие мини детальки .Я шабрю станки длиной в среднем 8 метров и если так их выводить ,то и жизни не хватит на станок
For me, orange color is far better than red. You can get alcohol inks in artists shops, you can then dillute them to your needs and use a proper applicator bottle and a non-linting cloth to smear it.
Very impressive work sir, and very beautiful finished straight edge. What is the green fluid that you sprayed on the diamond wheel when sharpening carbide blade?
Good job! I see you've adopted lookcreations's red sharpie trick :) By the way, how is that glass cleaner working out for you? I'm using mineral spirits for cleaning and stoning, and I hate it, to be honest. It's nasty stuff. I keep using it only because it doesn't cause corrosion.
Thank you! My approach with the cleaners is to use the least harmful first, then step up one level if neccessary. I do struggle with dry skin, also I don't want to get high on the vapors - So all purpose workshop cleaner (and for grinding the carbide) is the glas cleaner (the brand I use is very environmentally friendly as well). For more advanced cleaning I use ethanol. If that's not enough I use brake cleaner. But I always tend to do a two step cleaning, so I don't have to use as much of the "aggressive" cleaner. Anyway, with scraping I usually use the ethanol first, then just a touch of break cleaner. The ethanol breaks down the sharpie best and the brake cleaner removes any residue oils. It's important to do this cleaning before stoning, otherwise the oils from the ink can gum up the stone (very nasty). Some methyl-alcohol spirits can contain some additives, that make it leave a residue, which can cause the same effect. For corrosion prevention i use a stuff called "Ballistol", which is a german multi purpose spray like WD40, except it's food and skin safe and is a good corrosion inhibitor. Lookcreations trick is gold! This makes it a lot easier! 😁
@@buildfromsketch8102 That all sounds very reasonable. I'm glad you're conscious about your health! I already knew the Frosch brand, which is why I immediately noticed the cleaner in your video :) Bought the same one yesterday, and I can already tell it's good enough for general purpose cleaning and way less harmful than mineral spirits. Thank you! Regarding dry skin, I can share a trick of my own: before you put on the gloves, rub on some hand cream (generously). Rubber gloves will force your skin to absorb all of that cream. After a couple of hours your hands will be smooth as silk.
Thanks! In fact, I didn't check the angle at all. The thing with angles is, that they are really hard to hit. Also, there is no need to be 100% dead on. You use this as your master, scrape a surface accordingly which will then be the master to scrape the mating surface... For a dovetail slide/guideway, it's not important if the angle is 49° or 51°.
Serving vídeo I’ve watched on your channel and subscribed. It’s an interesting technique. I’m confused that you scrape, stone it, then ink to find the high spots but you go over the whole surface and not only the high spots, why? Thank you very much!
Hey there! Thank you for your comment and question. So the first passes are just for removing material, so gain even contact over the whole surface. As you go finer you indeed only try to hit the high spots - that's clear. But there are more things to take into consideration, that sometimes are hard to tell from the footage in the video: 1. You see me always do the hinging test - the part should always hinge at approx. 1/3 of the length. If it doesn't, some areas that are showing points, are false readings and in reality higher/lower than other areas. That's why sometimes you rescrape whole areas. 2. There are high spots and high-high spots (sometimes they are hard to recognize). Anyways, sometimes it's hard to see on camera, but you need to take them off in order to get all areas of the workpiece to have an even printing. 3. The printing may appear more even on camera than it is in reality. In order to make the print as even as possible, it can be necessary to rescrape the whole surface. 4. The scraping technique shown here is the so called "moore" scraping technique. The idea is to not scrape in a straight line, but to give the stroke a small twist. That create this look of a small swallows (just like kids draw birds in the sky actually). Although it looks like it, this doesn't remove the same amount of material over the whole length of the stroke. Due to the progressive and then regressive force during the stroke, you only remove a significant amount of material at the "peak" of the swallow-shape. At the start and end of the stroke you are basically not removing much material. So it gives the impression you scrape a "big" area, while you actually just remove material in one spot, similar to other scraping techniques. This has the big advantage, that you create much less of a burr, but it's also less exhausting in the long run. Just to be clear, I'm not an expert in this field, just a weird guy with too much time, climbing up a learning curve.
Enjoyed watching you make/fabricate your lathe. But wonder why you didn’t use a bastard mill file or emery cloth wrapped around the file or rigid straight edge to achieve closer to 100% smooth flat surface rather than to carbide scrapper technique.
Hey there, thanks! :) Well, this straight edge has a flatness of approx. 2 micron on each side and a parallelism of approx. 4 microns. This cannot be achieved by using any other handheld technique. Even grinding it on a modern grinding machine will be more than challenging. That's why hand scraping is the preferred method. In the end, it's not the global flatness that is important. It's the flatness of all the highspots of the scraped surface, that matters. I do have a video about my surface plate, where I explain a little bit more about this...
Thank you! These stones are off the shelf, but I used them when I scraped my steel surface plate. That means the stone has also worn down very flat over that time. That's pretty much always the case when you only use a stone on a flat surface that is bigger than the stone itself, it won't wear a bow into it. That usually just happens when only stoning small parts or stoning very bowed workpieces. Precision ground stones in my experience aren't such big of deal outside of TH-cam actually :D If you don't want to buy the precison ground stones, just get three of them and rub them against each other (of course always switching order and orientation). This will also wear them flat. The precision ground stones are nice to have really, but they aren't a "must have".
@@buildfromsketch8102 I think that's true in most cases but, when you're trying to keep a customer's product within a single tenth, it then does help to hone your setup area, vices, etc., to insure that 1/10th out the door accuracy. For you your stones are the same as precision ground ones because of how you use them. I agree with you that it's better to get 3 cheapies and rub them against each other until they're flat. Same way the first flat surface plates were created. Love your work! Please keep sharing machining type stuff when you can. Thanks again! :)
@@artmckay6704 Yeah of yourse. The precision ground stones definetly have their place! It's super important, because a bad stone really can screw up a workpiece, that's for sure... Thank you, I think new videos will follow soon. Stay tuned!
I agree that the precision ground flat stones are overhyped. Even a badly bowed stone will pick out asperities and abrade them to the general surface level without affecting the overall dimensions
*_I'm really confused why you added the flaking over the scraping... Flaking is only used for oil retention on ways. Plus the flaking you added just makes the straight edge look messy now. The scraping gave it a nice look._*
Yes, in general "flaking" is recognized for it's good oil-retaining capabilities. But this technique also creates less of a burr and is less exhausting over time. This technique is used for everything: Guideways, straightedges, surfaceplates, etc.... Technically It's not inferior to the "standard" scarping. The way and size I did it leads to a lower PPI than with the standard scraping technique, but for a straightedge its not as important as most people think. With a lower PPI you will also get more life out of the straightedge as it is less prone to wear.
@@buildfromsketch8102 I understand all that, I think my point was it was unnecessary for this straight edge. You don't need to retain oil first of all, and second, it makes the straight edge look real messy now. It looked fine with the initial scraping, and I think it looked better. Thats all I'm saying.
@@opieshomeshop You are right, it's not necessary. Although I didn't do it for oil retention, but more for a burr-free scrape. I guess we can agree that there a quite a few scraping techniques out there in the world, and everybody will have his favorite. Therefore I wouldn't agree with you on the "messy" finish - I really think this comes down to personal taste. Anyway, I appreciate and respect your comment and opinion! It's nice to have a diverse conversation here on the platform!
@@buildfromsketch8102 Do you have precision ground stones? Those would remove any burr. Anyway, it's your tool, you can do what you want with it. I watched your video along with some others because I'm new to scraping and learning how to do it.
4:53 Bonjour je viens de voir votre vidéo et j'ai moi même besoin de me faire une règle prismatique , le problème est que je ne trouve pas de règle brut a gratter et donc je souhaiterais en faire usiner un brut dans un bloc pour pouvoir la gratter par la suite . C'est la que je coince , car personne est en mesure de me renseigner sur la nuance de fonte a utilisé pour avoir quelques choses de durables dans le temps ( usure , vrillage ect...) . On me dit de prendre de la fonte stabilisée mais rien de plus et quand je recherche sur internet pas plus de détails. Si vous pouviez me renseigner sur le sujet cela m'aiderait beaucoup et je vous en serais grandement reconnaissant. Continuer de travailler comme cela et de le faire partager c'est vraiment génial, bonne continuation a vous .
Hi there! My french is very rusty, but I think I understood your question. The best material you can use is EN-GJL 250. Just google this standard and you will find it, but as you are from France, the standard is the same around Europe as it's an "EN"-standard. This material is broadly available as continuous cast material, which means it was casted in one very long peace in the steel mill. Therefore this material only contains very little stress. However, you should have somebody mill it for you to the rough shape you need and then send it out for stress relieving (heat treatment to remove the stress and stabilize it). After that's done, they can finish mill the part to the final precision, so it#s important to leave approx. 2-3 mm of stock for finish milling. You can also look on ebay, there are some people selling these things already pre-made. You can also search for the German term "Tuschierlineal". If you have any more questions, feel free to ask! :)
I got this one off ebay as a stress relieved and pre-milled stock. There is a guy from Germany selling these things. But you could also ask any job shop to do it for you. Cast iron can be bought as countinous casting from the steel supplier, just has to be stress relieved and milled.
Very nice video. Well done. I gotta ask where did you get that nice piece of cast iron from? It is really difficult to find a small foundry that sells them in Europe 😄
Hi there! Thanks so much for your feedback, highly appreciated! I purchased this raw blank on Ebay, already stress relieved and fine milled to tight tolerances! You don't necessarily need a defined casting - using continuous cast material is the way to go for smaller straight edges.
Excellent work you have a professional scrape and plate on how to make a nice smooth transition. Compared mind so pity I do scraping by motor and grinder dick. I tried looking in my place never founded.
This is a cast iron straightedge. It's used as a master for scraping of dovetail guideways. For example on the compound slide of a lathe. You blue it up and rub it against the surface you want to check.
@@buildfromsketch8102 Thank you. Now I understand. It is like a precision surface plate, just narrow and long. it has nothing to do with a v-shape straight edge. (english is my 3rd language)
It seems to me like it can never become flat with that method. The act of scraping cannot be done uniformly. There will always be a groove of varying depth. I guess it just isn't an issue
Scraping should not be confused with lapping. Lapping will get you a mirror finish eventually. Scraping is for sliding bearing surfaces. The are intentional deeper pockets for oil and for less area in contact with a mating surface. If two faces are perfectly flat they will stick.
Die Arbeit, die Musik und das drum herum ... ich kann nicht sagen wieso, aber es wirkt traurig. Es ist wie ein Bewältigungs- Verarbeitungsprozess. Falls ja, hoffe ich das es gelingt!
This is killing me. Is this some kind of gag, done just to sucker people into some kind of joke? Sort of like the “skyhook” or “blinker fluid” or “left handed hammer”? I’ve watched 10 videos about this, and nobody explains what its purpose is…what do you use the scraped metal for when you’re done? So far, I’ve gathered that it’s a superior yet time consuming way to get a piece of steel perfectly flat. And that not even a precision machine can get something to the flatness that is done by hand. And something about oil in the low spots, and… SOMEBODY PLEASE FRICKIN TELL ME WHAT SCRAPING IS FOR!!!
Hey there! No, this not some kind of joke, snake oil, skyhook, blinker fluid, left handed hammer/cup, gearbox sand or anything like that. This is a proper technique, used since over 150 years in machine tool making. Your investigation so far is correct. Scraping produces a surface, that consists of highspots and the valleys inbetween (sometimes also called lowspots). The highspots have a flatness that, if done correctly, can be superior to a ground surface. The valleys or lowspots inbetween entrap oil, which is super useful for guideways which rely on proper lubrication.
@@buildfromsketch8102 thanx. I’ve done a little more looking around at videos, and I’ve got it now. Today I learned: there is a difference between “flat” and “smooth”. Surface grinders aren’t always calibrated perfectly or in great running condition I would like to make a long (4,5, or even 6 foot long) beam and scrape 1 side so I have a truly flat tool to calibrate my welding fixture table (I made it so it’s height can be adjusted at about 30 different spots. It’s a 5’x4’ table). I saw a guy who has a channel and he made one. The hard part is finding a granite table that is perfectly flat and long enough to make my tool.
@@zenlandzipline I see. Welding tables generally don't require a great flatness. A table of your size, is more than good enough if it's within 2-3mm of flatness. Another way to check that for flatness is a precision level with a resolution of for example 0.05mm/m. This is another great way of checking for flatness. You can get some import stuff pretty cheap off of Ebay. Don't underestimate the time and skill it takes to scrape such a straightedge, as shown in the video. Plus it's less than 0.002mm in flatness per side and less than 0.004mm in parallelism. So it's acutally 1000 times more accurate, than whats required for your intention. I assume the level method i proposed will get you very far! :)
@@buildfromsketch8102 yes, I’ve used a level, and my table is flat. It’s very flat, as I’ve got some feeler gauges and I’ve got the entire table adjusted to a 0.08 tolerance. But…that 0.08 is based off of using a Home Depot level, a 6 foot piece of 3/4”x3” flat bar sitting on the 3/4” side, and a few other tools. To really know it’s true tolerance, I would need a precision flat edge, like the one I saw the guy make in a video. And, even though it would be overkill, it wouldn’t cost me very much…maybe $100 in steel to make it. $100 plus probably 100 hours of scraping.
@@zenlandzipline How about running a small gauge guitar string across the table? This will be significantly more accurate than a home depot level. The levels I have been talking about are machinist, precision levels. Not carpentry levels.
Too bad "modern" scraping techniques take twice as long and are half as good. The silly Moore pattern scraping is the ultimate devolution of the original method of the grand master of them all Sir Joseph Whitworth. 5 generations of scrapers have "improved" the process into a shadow of what it was. Passing it down and making it worse with each unthinking unquestioning disciple who then adds his bit and passes it down again. So here we are, the state of the art is now half as good and takes twice as long.
@@tristanmaloney7841 There is a book written in 1877 "The WHITWORTH MEASURING MACHINE" downloadable from internet archive in several formats free. It details scraping methods and tools and much much more as it was originally done. It shows how Whitworth created the first accurate surface plates and parlayed that into several other important forms ending up with his Millionth measuring machine. That would be the BEST place to start but there are many technical articles and interviews with Whitworth written at the time that you can search out. I'd put a link to it but yt will delete the comment. Just search the title and you can get it. On my channel There is a short clip of what can be done in stainless using the old methods. Since that clip I further refined it so now it is actually BETTER than a gauge block over the whole surface.
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An excellent demonstration of scraping, thank you. Greetings from the Black Forest.
I can see a variable height bench being very handy for this to stop that back bending
Amazing work. A perfect practice piece as you continue down the path of scraping. Thanks for letting us join you for the ride.
Thank you so much!
Thank you. You are very precise in your job. I learned today a new standard for scrapping with you. Wont be easy but I will try to be as you.😊
i stumbled across the video on your slab when i found out about this technique the other day and i find it very satisfying and relaxing. i do a fair amount of woodworking and the like as a hobby but i’m currently spending the year abroad and haven’t been able to do much. definitely miss it and watching makers online has been nice. thanks for a wonderful video of a fascinating art i never knew existed. it’s really interesting to see.
Thank you very much, highly appreciated! :)
The skill, craftsmanship, and most importantly patients shown here is incredible.
The surface finish that scraping gives is absolutely beautiful.
You did an outstanding job from start to finish, parallel surfaces even distribution of bearing points. YOUR FROSTING METHOD IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM MINE, BUT THE RESULTS ARE THE SAME AS OIL WILL SPREAD ACROSS THE ENTIRE BEARING SURFACE WHICH WILL EFFICIENTLY REMOVE GRIT AND LUBRICATE EVEYTHING WHICH WILL DELAY OLD AGE FROM SETTING IN. WELL DONE!!!!
Thanks so much for your feedback! Highly appreciated!
I guess there are so many different styles of scraping, that have evolved over years. But I really enjoy that fact - it's awesome that every company and every country around the world has a slightly different approach. Just awesome!
Cheers mate!
Great video, very relaxing music and great Fahrrad ride midway.
My scrapping started well in 1st project, then went downhill, now I’m improving again. I’m particularly happy because I’m making a 60 degrees straight edge for dovetails and was breaking my head to figure out the final shape. Will do like you did: a rectangle, then slope one face to 60, leaving the opposite it with two right angles.
Will also grind a 140 and a 90 radius carbide insert for roughening. I have converted a reciprocating saw with 13mm (1/2”) stroke to a rough power scraper. Ordered another bevel gear to try to make it adjustable and maybe be able to finish power scrape (2mm stroke) with it.
Thanks for the video!
Sounds good! Have fun while scraping!! :)
I make the same sort of wood fixtures to hold the small parts I scrape as well. They work very well. I also use the tap method of making sure things are indeed sitting flat. In my humble opinion very nice patient precise work. Cheers.
Lots of different techniques for scraping. Personally, I like the look of curl scraping finished off with a nice hand "bump" flake with a signature pattern. Old time machine tool manufacturers each had their own style of flaking.
Beautiful Work
Thanks! :)
Nice work! That sweet spot where art & metrology meet.
Who knew making something flat could be so interesting
very very very nice video, nice work, nice camera settings, well done
Thank your so much, highly appreciated! :)
Very nice, beautiful workmanship.
Thanks for sharing the process.
Very impressive.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks!
Nice chilled video and a great result for you 👍
Thx! :)
Wow, I enjoyed that what tedious work. What determination. I wonder if he has more hours on this little straight edge or the big slab he did.
love the dedication, can you make a video/tutorial on how to sharpen the scraper insert
also is it possible to scrap mild steel, the insert kinda slips on it
Alex from an Engineer's Findings did a video on scraping mild steel:
th-cam.com/video/FgxjiEBhKvM/w-d-xo.html
Где то я Вам завидую ,что можно так посидеть ,пошкрябать в своё удовольствие мини детальки .Я шабрю станки длиной в среднем 8 метров и если так их выводить ,то и жизни не хватит на станок
Great work, like the hammer technique for final bluing
Thanks! :)
Beautiful work!
Thanks! :)
I like the fixture. I've had good luck with that kind of thing. It's a small investment compared to the total labor in the job.
Work smarter, not harder! :)
Wonderful documentary. Thank You.
Thank you too!
Amazing work
Thanks a lot!
For me, orange color is far better than red. You can get alcohol inks in artists shops, you can then dillute them to your needs and use a proper applicator bottle and a non-linting cloth to smear it.
Very impressive work sir, and very beautiful finished straight edge. What is the green fluid that you sprayed on the diamond wheel when sharpening carbide blade?
Thank you so much! I just used window cleaner by the German company Frosch, that's why it's green :)
Very nice work!
Thanks! :)
Good job! I see you've adopted lookcreations's red sharpie trick :) By the way, how is that glass cleaner working out for you? I'm using mineral spirits for cleaning and stoning, and I hate it, to be honest. It's nasty stuff. I keep using it only because it doesn't cause corrosion.
Thank you! My approach with the cleaners is to use the least harmful first, then step up one level if neccessary. I do struggle with dry skin, also I don't want to get high on the vapors - So all purpose workshop cleaner (and for grinding the carbide) is the glas cleaner (the brand I use is very environmentally friendly as well). For more advanced cleaning I use ethanol. If that's not enough I use brake cleaner. But I always tend to do a two step cleaning, so I don't have to use as much of the "aggressive" cleaner. Anyway, with scraping I usually use the ethanol first, then just a touch of break cleaner. The ethanol breaks down the sharpie best and the brake cleaner removes any residue oils. It's important to do this cleaning before stoning, otherwise the oils from the ink can gum up the stone (very nasty). Some methyl-alcohol spirits can contain some additives, that make it leave a residue, which can cause the same effect. For corrosion prevention i use a stuff called "Ballistol", which is a german multi purpose spray like WD40, except it's food and skin safe and is a good corrosion inhibitor.
Lookcreations trick is gold! This makes it a lot easier! 😁
@@buildfromsketch8102 That all sounds very reasonable. I'm glad you're conscious about your health! I already knew the Frosch brand, which is why I immediately noticed the cleaner in your video :) Bought the same one yesterday, and I can already tell it's good enough for general purpose cleaning and way less harmful than mineral spirits. Thank you!
Regarding dry skin, I can share a trick of my own: before you put on the gloves, rub on some hand cream (generously). Rubber gloves will force your skin to absorb all of that cream. After a couple of hours your hands will be smooth as silk.
@@Nytill Thanks for sharing your tipp! :)
Very nicely done, but how did you check the angle?It could go off by little.
Thanks! In fact, I didn't check the angle at all. The thing with angles is, that they are really hard to hit. Also, there is no need to be 100% dead on. You use this as your master, scrape a surface accordingly which will then be the master to scrape the mating surface...
For a dovetail slide/guideway, it's not important if the angle is 49° or 51°.
Serving vídeo I’ve watched on your channel and subscribed.
It’s an interesting technique. I’m confused that you scrape, stone it, then ink to find the high spots but you go over the whole surface and not only the high spots, why?
Thank you very much!
Hey there! Thank you for your comment and question.
So the first passes are just for removing material, so gain even contact over the whole surface. As you go finer you indeed only try to hit the high spots - that's clear. But there are more things to take into consideration, that sometimes are hard to tell from the footage in the video:
1. You see me always do the hinging test - the part should always hinge at approx. 1/3 of the length. If it doesn't, some areas that are showing points, are false readings and in reality higher/lower than other areas. That's why sometimes you rescrape whole areas.
2. There are high spots and high-high spots (sometimes they are hard to recognize). Anyways, sometimes it's hard to see on camera, but you need to take them off in order to get all areas of the workpiece to have an even printing.
3. The printing may appear more even on camera than it is in reality. In order to make the print as even as possible, it can be necessary to rescrape the whole surface.
4. The scraping technique shown here is the so called "moore" scraping technique. The idea is to not scrape in a straight line, but to give the stroke a small twist. That create this look of a small swallows (just like kids draw birds in the sky actually). Although it looks like it, this doesn't remove the same amount of material over the whole length of the stroke. Due to the progressive and then regressive force during the stroke, you only remove a significant amount of material at the "peak" of the swallow-shape. At the start and end of the stroke you are basically not removing much material. So it gives the impression you scrape a "big" area, while you actually just remove material in one spot, similar to other scraping techniques. This has the big advantage, that you create much less of a burr, but it's also less exhausting in the long run.
Just to be clear, I'm not an expert in this field, just a weird guy with too much time, climbing up a learning curve.
Enjoyed watching you make/fabricate your lathe. But wonder why you didn’t use a bastard mill file or emery cloth wrapped around the file or rigid straight edge to achieve closer to 100% smooth flat surface rather than to carbide scrapper technique.
Hey there, thanks! :)
Well, this straight edge has a flatness of approx. 2 micron on each side and a parallelism of approx. 4 microns. This cannot be achieved by using any other handheld technique.
Even grinding it on a modern grinding machine will be more than challenging. That's why hand scraping is the preferred method.
In the end, it's not the global flatness that is important. It's the flatness of all the highspots of the scraped surface, that matters. I do have a video about my surface plate, where I explain a little bit more about this...
@@buildfromsketch8102 паста ГОИ решает все проблемы
Государственный Оптический Институт
Wow! Nice work!
Do you use precision ground flat stones or just off the shelf stones? Thanks! :)
Thank you!
These stones are off the shelf, but I used them when I scraped my steel surface plate. That means the stone has also worn down very flat over that time. That's pretty much always the case when you only use a stone on a flat surface that is bigger than the stone itself, it won't wear a bow into it. That usually just happens when only stoning small parts or stoning very bowed workpieces. Precision ground stones in my experience aren't such big of deal outside of TH-cam actually :D
If you don't want to buy the precison ground stones, just get three of them and rub them against each other (of course always switching order and orientation). This will also wear them flat. The precision ground stones are nice to have really, but they aren't a "must have".
@@buildfromsketch8102 I think that's true in most cases but, when you're trying to keep a customer's product within a single tenth, it then does help to hone your setup area, vices, etc., to insure that 1/10th out the door accuracy.
For you your stones are the same as precision ground ones because of how you use them.
I agree with you that it's better to get 3 cheapies and rub them against each other until they're flat. Same way the first flat surface plates were created.
Love your work!
Please keep sharing machining type stuff when you can.
Thanks again! :)
@@artmckay6704 Yeah of yourse. The precision ground stones definetly have their place! It's super important, because a bad stone really can screw up a workpiece, that's for sure...
Thank you, I think new videos will follow soon. Stay tuned!
@@buildfromsketch8102 :)
I agree that the precision ground flat stones are overhyped. Even a badly bowed stone will pick out asperities and abrade them to the general surface level without affecting the overall dimensions
I wish I could do this to my lathe and my mill
*_I'm really confused why you added the flaking over the scraping... Flaking is only used for oil retention on ways. Plus the flaking you added just makes the straight edge look messy now. The scraping gave it a nice look._*
Yes, in general "flaking" is recognized for it's good oil-retaining capabilities. But this technique also creates less of a burr and is less exhausting over time. This technique is used for everything: Guideways, straightedges, surfaceplates, etc....
Technically It's not inferior to the "standard" scarping. The way and size I did it leads to a lower PPI than with the standard scraping technique, but for a straightedge its not as important as most people think. With a lower PPI you will also get more life out of the straightedge as it is less prone to wear.
@@buildfromsketch8102 I understand all that, I think my point was it was unnecessary for this straight edge. You don't need to retain oil first of all, and second, it makes the straight edge look real messy now. It looked fine with the initial scraping, and I think it looked better. Thats all I'm saying.
@@opieshomeshop You are right, it's not necessary. Although I didn't do it for oil retention, but more for a burr-free scrape.
I guess we can agree that there a quite a few scraping techniques out there in the world, and everybody will have his favorite.
Therefore I wouldn't agree with you on the "messy" finish - I really think this comes down to personal taste.
Anyway, I appreciate and respect your comment and opinion! It's nice to have a diverse conversation here on the platform!
@@buildfromsketch8102 Do you have precision ground stones? Those would remove any burr. Anyway, it's your tool, you can do what you want with it. I watched your video along with some others because I'm new to scraping and learning how to do it.
Why not start with the deeper cutting angle after completing a surface pass with the wider scraping angle?
What do you mean by "deeper cutting angle" and "wider scraping angle"?
Can anyone tell me how much a single scrape would take off the steel?
Preferably as little as possible
4:53 Bonjour je viens de voir votre vidéo et j'ai moi même besoin de me faire une règle prismatique , le problème est que je ne trouve pas de règle brut a gratter et donc je souhaiterais en faire usiner un brut dans un bloc pour pouvoir la gratter par la suite . C'est la que je coince , car personne est en mesure de me renseigner sur la nuance de fonte a utilisé pour avoir quelques choses de durables dans le temps ( usure , vrillage ect...) . On me dit de prendre de la fonte stabilisée mais rien de plus et quand je recherche sur internet pas plus de détails. Si vous pouviez me renseigner sur le sujet cela m'aiderait beaucoup et je vous en serais grandement reconnaissant. Continuer de travailler comme cela et de le faire partager c'est vraiment génial, bonne continuation a vous .
Hi there! My french is very rusty, but I think I understood your question.
The best material you can use is EN-GJL 250.
Just google this standard and you will find it, but as you are from France, the standard is the same around Europe as it's an "EN"-standard.
This material is broadly available as continuous cast material, which means it was casted in one very long peace in the steel mill. Therefore this material only contains very little stress. However, you should have somebody mill it for you to the rough shape you need and then send it out for stress relieving (heat treatment to remove the stress and stabilize it). After that's done, they can finish mill the part to the final precision, so it#s important to leave approx. 2-3 mm of stock for finish milling.
You can also look on ebay, there are some people selling these things already pre-made.
You can also search for the German term "Tuschierlineal".
If you have any more questions, feel free to ask! :)
@@buildfromsketch8102
OK tant you for all the informations
How did you acquire the original prism?
I got this one off ebay as a stress relieved and pre-milled stock. There is a guy from Germany selling these things. But you could also ask any job shop to do it for you. Cast iron can be bought as countinous casting from the steel supplier, just has to be stress relieved and milled.
Please make video tapered gib slide scraping
Sure. I will do that in an upcoming video!
Very nice video. Well done. I gotta ask where did you get that nice piece of cast iron from? It is really difficult to find a small foundry that sells them in Europe 😄
Hi there! Thanks so much for your feedback, highly appreciated! I purchased this raw blank on Ebay, already stress relieved and fine milled to tight tolerances! You don't necessarily need a defined casting - using continuous cast material is the way to go for smaller straight edges.
Excellent work you have a professional scrape and plate on how to make a nice smooth transition. Compared mind so pity I do scraping by motor and grinder dick. I tried looking in my place never founded.
What is this used for and how do you use it?
This is a cast iron straightedge. It's used as a master for scraping of dovetail guideways. For example on the compound slide of a lathe. You blue it up and rub it against the surface you want to check.
@@buildfromsketch8102 Thank you. Now I understand. It is like a precision surface plate, just narrow and long. it has nothing to do with a v-shape straight edge. (english is my 3rd language)
@@ghlscitel6714 You're welcome! If you have any further questions, feel free to ask!
At 3:33 does the rattling of cast straight edge in wooden jig makes any difference in performance of scraping ?
Yes, the straightedge will rock, which makes it harder to scrape. I used some wooden shims to secure it to the fixture later on 14:30 .
It seems to me like it can never become flat with that method. The act of scraping cannot be done uniformly. There will always be a groove of varying depth. I guess it just isn't an issue
Scraping should not be confused with lapping. Lapping will get you a mirror finish eventually. Scraping is for sliding bearing surfaces. The are intentional deeper pockets for oil and for less area in contact with a mating surface. If two faces are perfectly flat they will stick.
It is the variations between the high points that is made to be a minimum and there for lying close to a single plane.
can you turn the music down a bit pls
sure, thanks for the feedback!
класс...привет из России...
Why u scraping from front to back?try the oppositive sense,from back to front.the next straightedge look for do at 55'
Die Arbeit, die Musik und das drum herum ... ich kann nicht sagen wieso, aber es wirkt traurig. Es ist wie ein Bewältigungs- Verarbeitungsprozess. Falls ja, hoffe ich das es gelingt!
I don't believe so. I think is calm, the calm needed to achieve precision.
Ооооо .... в России каждый сделал себе по 3 таких линейки, отлитые еще при СССР
И столько же плит !
Я клином фиксирую ..Так раздражает когда деталь гуляет )
And no use a stone on circular,please...
This is killing me. Is this some kind of gag, done just to sucker people into some kind of joke? Sort of like the “skyhook” or “blinker fluid” or “left handed hammer”?
I’ve watched 10 videos about this, and nobody explains what its purpose is…what do you use the scraped metal for when you’re done?
So far, I’ve gathered that it’s a superior yet time consuming way to get a piece of steel perfectly flat. And that not even a precision machine can get something to the flatness that is done by hand. And something about oil in the low spots, and…
SOMEBODY PLEASE FRICKIN TELL ME WHAT SCRAPING IS FOR!!!
Hey there! No, this not some kind of joke, snake oil, skyhook, blinker fluid, left handed hammer/cup, gearbox sand or anything like that. This is a proper technique, used since over 150 years in machine tool making.
Your investigation so far is correct. Scraping produces a surface, that consists of highspots and the valleys inbetween (sometimes also called lowspots). The highspots have a flatness that, if done correctly, can be superior to a ground surface.
The valleys or lowspots inbetween entrap oil, which is super useful for guideways which rely on proper lubrication.
@@buildfromsketch8102 thanx. I’ve done a little more looking around at videos, and I’ve got it now.
Today I learned: there is a difference between “flat” and “smooth”.
Surface grinders aren’t always calibrated perfectly or in great running condition
I would like to make a long (4,5, or even 6 foot long) beam and scrape 1 side so I have a truly flat tool to calibrate my welding fixture table (I made it so it’s height can be adjusted at about 30 different spots. It’s a 5’x4’ table).
I saw a guy who has a channel and he made one. The hard part is finding a granite table that is perfectly flat and long enough to make my tool.
@@zenlandzipline I see. Welding tables generally don't require a great flatness. A table of your size, is more than good enough if it's within 2-3mm of flatness. Another way to check that for flatness is a precision level with a resolution of for example 0.05mm/m. This is another great way of checking for flatness. You can get some import stuff pretty cheap off of Ebay.
Don't underestimate the time and skill it takes to scrape such a straightedge, as shown in the video. Plus it's less than 0.002mm in flatness per side and less than 0.004mm in parallelism. So it's acutally 1000 times more accurate, than whats required for your intention. I assume the level method i proposed will get you very far! :)
@@buildfromsketch8102 yes, I’ve used a level, and my table is flat. It’s very flat, as I’ve got some feeler gauges and I’ve got the entire table adjusted to a 0.08 tolerance. But…that 0.08 is based off of using a Home Depot level, a 6 foot piece of 3/4”x3” flat bar sitting on the 3/4” side, and a few other tools. To really know it’s true tolerance, I would need a precision flat edge, like the one I saw the guy make in a video. And, even though it would be overkill, it wouldn’t cost me very much…maybe $100 in steel to make it. $100 plus probably 100 hours of scraping.
@@zenlandzipline How about running a small gauge guitar string across the table?
This will be significantly more accurate than a home depot level.
The levels I have been talking about are machinist, precision levels. Not carpentry levels.
Too bad "modern" scraping techniques take twice as long and are half as good. The silly Moore pattern scraping is the ultimate devolution of the original method of the grand master of them all Sir Joseph Whitworth. 5 generations of scrapers have "improved" the process into a shadow of what it was. Passing it down and making it worse with each unthinking unquestioning disciple who then adds his bit and passes it down again. So here we are, the state of the art is now half as good and takes twice as long.
Where should we look for more traditional scraping methods?
@@tristanmaloney7841 There is a book written in 1877
"The WHITWORTH MEASURING MACHINE"
downloadable from internet archive in several formats free. It details scraping methods and tools and much much more as it was originally done. It shows how Whitworth created the first accurate surface plates and parlayed that into several other important forms ending up with his Millionth measuring machine.
That would be the BEST place to start but there are many technical articles and interviews with Whitworth written at the time that you can search out.
I'd put a link to it but yt will delete the comment. Just search the title and you can get it.
On my channel There is a short clip of what can be done in stainless using the old methods. Since that clip I further refined it so now it is actually BETTER than a gauge block over the whole surface.
@@tristanmaloney7841 I don't know why My response is deleted. Find the book "the whitworth measurement machine" , it details it all.
@@tristanmaloney7841 You can find it free to get a pdf. Its from 1877.
My longer more detailed response was taken down for some reason.