Hi Mark, I agree. This happened to me using UPS and I purchased extra insurance and I packed the crap out of it and insurance would not pay a dime !!! If you must ship, take the stock off the gun, and put the stock screw back between the two tangs......Doc
Use Registered us mail if you choose the post office.Registered mail travels outside the regular parcel stream. Registered mail is recorded,and signed for by each employee who handles it.Its slower for this reason,but sometimes slow is better.
Every rifle I've ever posted here in Australia gets broken down & barrel / action packed separately to the delicate wood - copious amounts of bubble wrap & good old newspaper keeps them as good at their final destination as when they left me - some folks see what I do & think its a little overkill but here's just another example of what I call wilful negligent damage. Here's hoping that 86 is brought back from the depths of despair - a great vid as always.
I have seen videos of delivery people abusing packages if they suspect a firearm is inside. My cousin was flying to Alaska to hunt Moose and watched the baggage handlers throw His and his friends gun cases on the taxi way and stamp on them. Most firearm damage is intended. You are too kind with your assessment, I would say that one end of the package was set on a curb or similar raised surface and jumped on to cause that damage.
Mark, you might want to machine a welding jig to hold the tangs in perfect alignment for welding. Thanks Mark for explaining what happened to the rifle in shipment and for the shipping advise. Also, one more thing I believe that if the shipping handler knows there is a firearm or guitar being shipped in the special shipping containers, they purposely mishandle the container. It happened to me years ago with a guitar. The case was thrown with enough force to break the neck.
I ship a fair number of firearms. I wrap most in heavy brown paper. On lever guns I usually remove the tang screw and pull the butt stock. On shotguns I break them down and after wrapping the major sections I tape the stock and receiver to the barrel and forend section tightly. I use new Uline boxes and lots of packing material and 2" packaging tape. Good luck getting any shipping company to pay a claim. I enjoy your videos.
I once bought a pair of unique antique peg lamps, handmade, only ones like that. They came very well packed, but USPS destroyed one - not a candlestick, burner or chimney (all replaceable), but the unique fount. I had insured for their $400 appraised value, though I had bought them on a $216 bid. Post Office wanted all sorts of documentation, photocopies not good enough, PROOF of what I’d paid before they’d even consider paying $216, AND they demanded the rest of the package. But I wanted the surviving lamp, if only to save it from being trashed. Lesson learned: Post Office insurance is WORTHLESS. And there are NO consequences for the ape who smashes your package.
my rule of thumb with these types of cases is always put extra padding/dunnage. if you can easily close the case, it is not packed tight enough. the other thing is putting packing between the case and cardboard box.
Pelican case with firm foam cutouts, not letting that thing move in any direction. That would be a start. It's sort of a disproportionate issue, the cost of the firearm vs. the packaging people use for them.
Great video topic Mark! I absolutely despise using USPS for shipping packages due to the damaged packages that I have sent and received. But, as you stated UPS and FedEx have all but abandoned us.
Try zip tying bubble wrap around the gun .. Styrofoam on the ends. It needs to be so tight in the case you practically need to stand on it to latch it . More bubble wrap around the case in the card board container.
Great video. Wish it didn’t have to be made. We also need to address the USPS losing our parts AND the the indifference ( being polite as this is a family friendly place) of the USPS to them losing or damaging items. I finally got some satisfaction because on my next to last call I explained my next call was to my attorney, the postmaster general, and my Congressman. They called back in 20 minutes after several months of denials.
Certainly something I guess I never really considered.. It's in a well padded case so it is good to go but it appears not. Many thanks for spreading the word.
All great suggestions... juut one point to keep in mind is not to let plastic bubble wrap lay directly on the firearam. if it gets hot it will melt / stick to the gun. . I would first wrap the gun in an old cotton t-shorts and then wrap it.
I've had my buddy in Ten Sleep work on 5 of my Colt SAAs at different times. Although a 1,200 mile drive, one way, I drove them out and only had him ship one gun back to me. It got back ok but had a temporary UPS guy almost deliver it. My wife caught him in the neighborhood. He turned it over to her without asking for identification or getting signature.
We recently sent a custom barrel out for nitriding. I packaged it myself. Wrapped in bubble wrap, inside a plastic gun case, packed tight in a cardboard shipping box. The barrel arrived extremely damaged from gross mishandling during shipping. Going forward we will be shipping everything in Pelican cases with custom cut foam. It won't be cheap, but it's better than losing a $1000+ barrel. Oh, and UPS claimed "improper packaging" and denied any responsibility.
Great video & extremely helpful. Like Wyoming Armory, I'm a gunsmith & most of my work comes from out of state clients. People shipping firearms should anticipate the absolute worst. Long ago, their was a commercial by Samsonite Luggage in which a gorilla mercilessly beat and abused one of their suitcases. Unfortunately, you should expect no better treatment for your prized firearm from any major shipper. It is impossible to pack a firearm too well. A few minutes spent reinforcing the firearm within its shipping container will pay big dividends. Hat's off to Wyoming Armory and movie star Keith!
You can't trust anyone to ship responsibly. I once had a diving tank backpack which in those days was made of solid plastic (built to take rough handling) smashed during transit with an airline. Someone literally had to run a forklift over it to do that kind of damage. And of course the airline claimed that it didn't cover anything "not used on the trip" regardless that I had been diving on the trip (whatever difference that made--complete BS backed up by their corporate offices). At the value of such a classic firearm especially but even for normal shipments of high dollar items I would make (or if you need to have someone make it) a wooden case that firmly anchored as well as padded the item inside with holddowns built in. Don't build it lightly either this kind of damage is not at all rare!! I would guess that someone who is anti gun would recognize that as a gun if the outside labeling indicated that and maybe inflict damage purposely.
Oh I know they’re gonna get abused! When I was a kid my dad ordered an antique Martini carbine. The butt was broken and the long bolt that held it on was bent. It looked like they put it on jack stands and the jumped on a few times.
Great video again! I have an Uberti 1876 in 50-95 that shoots a great PATTERN at 20-25 yards. Doesn't matter if I use black or smokeless powder. Any idea off the top of your head might cause this and possible fix? Like a match grade barrel?
There could be a great many contributing factors. I can only guess without having the rifle and ammo in hand. The first thing I would do is slug the bore to find out the exact bore diameter and make sure your bullet diameter is at least equal in diameter or slightly larger than the bore. Best of Luck.
I bought reloading supplies and other things from midway and the postal service lost my order and fortunately midway resent my order but it has been awful the past 5 years with shipping
My daughters entire record set and comic books were insured by the USPS, and only half of the box was delivered along with a piece of paper that told her how to claim the loss of all of her comic books.. Because the box we shipped was torn in half... She was told that the delivery was confirmed, we agreed with half of it.. So they had no liability for any of it.... Enjoy that.
Anything worth more than $100 deserves a wooden shipping crate build around it in my opinion. Some 2x8 lumber and and bubble wrap done intelligently would be overkill.
One wonders if the buttstock had a modern butt pad installed on it, if the shock would have been damped enough to prevent snapping the receiver tang. Maybe not. Not a real fan of the hard crescent butt plates. I understand why they designed them, but there's better ideas.
The real lesson here is to pack the firearm properly with plenty of cushioning. Taking the stock off won't help if the firearm isn't packed properly. We had another high condition 1886 shipped to us earlier this year with the stock removed and no padding on the end of the tangs. The only difference was that only the lower tang was broken.
The PO is Evil and could destroy an nvil with a rubber mallet. I shipped a Win 12 years ago and insured it for 1500 bucks and it arrived to the smith with both butt stock and forearm crushed. The box had fork lift tread tracks across it having been run over. The smith sent a batch of photos and I filed a clam that was denied based on insufficient pack. I responded with: What is sufficient to withstand a fork lift running over it? No attorney would take the case. Cost me 1450 to have it re-stocked.
These packages are combined in large shipping containers, wire cages or cribs. They're stacked and handle with forklifts in the back of semi trailers. All of the major shipping companies handle parcels the same way. Nobody handles packages one piece at a time anymore. Is it any Wonder then that some of them get damaged when they're not properly prepared for shipping. This reinforces exactly what you're saying. I've shipped my own guns off to be worked on and have never had any issues because I prepared them to survive the journey.
As I mentioned in the video, it was USPS. However, I think it's just as likely with FEDEX and UPS. The real point of this episode is to be sure to package them like you expect the shipper to try to break it.
When your civilian justice systems are irreparably corrupt from within, what options do you have? You can try to implement all the laws and penalties under the sun, but without a willing justice system, it's worthless as the paper and time put into it.
@@bumpercoach I'm not following your snarky comment, honestly. I'm merely saying that for those who've paid attention to the Nation as of the last several years, the justice system isn't accomplishing anything of note, especially as related to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. My suggestion is the US Military justice system is the only ultimate way to bring the Federal side back in check.
this is sickening......sad as it is it's another reason to hand deliver and pick up if at all possible.....a collector restored like that isn't something that can be replaced easily if at all and having to repair really sucks the life out of it ...this would be a nightmare to me ..one i care not to have....and to be honest it kinda blows my mind that the gunsmith did that job but couldn't fit a fore end??? not trying to make it sound EZ but damn or did i miss something...
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
I’ve had the same thing, it’s no accident
You’re right. Not an accident
This is deliberate and fully intentional damage.
Who would have to gain from that?
@@teratexture6529Postal employees.
Hi Mark, I agree. This happened to me using UPS and I purchased extra insurance and I packed the crap out of it and insurance would not pay a dime !!! If you must ship, take the stock off the gun, and put the stock screw back between the two tangs......Doc
@@dr.durellshepard398Hi Doc 😀
Cultural Warfare at its Worst.
Use Registered us mail if you choose the post office.Registered mail travels outside the regular parcel stream. Registered mail is recorded,and signed for by each employee who handles it.Its slower for this reason,but sometimes slow is better.
This was nauseating.
This was 100% deliberate
Every rifle I've ever posted here in Australia gets broken down & barrel / action packed separately to the delicate wood - copious amounts of bubble wrap & good old newspaper keeps them as good at their final destination as when they left me - some folks see what I do & think its a little overkill but here's just another example of what I call wilful negligent damage. Here's hoping that 86 is brought back from the depths of despair - a great vid as always.
I have seen videos of delivery people abusing packages if they suspect a firearm is inside. My cousin was flying to Alaska to hunt Moose and watched the baggage handlers throw His and his friends gun cases on the taxi way and stamp on them. Most firearm damage is intended. You are too kind with your assessment, I would say that one end of the package was set on a curb or similar raised surface and jumped on to cause that damage.
Mark, you might want to machine a welding jig to hold the tangs in perfect alignment for welding.
Thanks Mark for explaining what happened to the rifle in shipment and for the shipping advise.
Also, one more thing I believe that if the shipping handler knows there is a firearm or guitar being shipped in the special shipping containers, they purposely mishandle the container. It happened to me years ago with a guitar. The case was thrown with enough force to break the neck.
That hast to be intentional
I ship a fair number of firearms. I wrap most in heavy brown paper. On lever guns I usually remove the tang screw and pull the butt stock. On shotguns I break them down and after wrapping the major sections I tape the stock and receiver to the barrel and forend section tightly. I use new Uline boxes and lots of packing material and 2" packaging tape. Good luck getting any shipping company to pay a claim. I enjoy your videos.
I once bought a pair of unique antique peg lamps, handmade, only ones like that. They came very well packed, but USPS destroyed one - not a candlestick, burner or chimney (all replaceable), but the unique fount. I had insured for their $400 appraised value, though I had bought them on a $216 bid. Post Office wanted all sorts of documentation, photocopies not good enough, PROOF of what I’d paid before they’d even consider paying $216, AND they demanded the rest of the package. But I wanted the surviving lamp, if only to save it from being trashed. Lesson learned: Post Office insurance is WORTHLESS. And there are NO consequences for the ape who smashes your package.
Really appreciate older and classic firearms and appreciate the Cinnabar for their videos and expertise! Thank you.
my rule of thumb with these types of cases is always put extra padding/dunnage. if you can easily close the case, it is not packed tight enough. the other thing is putting packing between the case and cardboard box.
Remove the rear stock and bubble wrap that baby. Also, you can ship in a box like Kibler's. They package their kits extremely well.
Pelican case with firm foam cutouts, not letting that thing move in any direction. That would be a start. It's sort of a disproportionate issue, the cost of the firearm vs. the packaging people use for them.
Great video topic Mark! I absolutely despise using USPS for shipping packages due to the damaged packages that I have sent and received. But, as you stated UPS and FedEx have all but abandoned us.
Try zip tying bubble wrap around the gun .. Styrofoam on the ends. It needs to be so tight in the case you practically need to stand on it to latch it . More bubble wrap around the case in the card board container.
most interested to learn how
the shipper did restitution so
theyre motivated to find who
did this since they have
tracking for just such
investigation
Great video. Wish it didn’t have to be made. We also need to address the USPS losing our parts AND the the indifference ( being polite as this is a family friendly place) of the USPS to them losing or damaging items. I finally got some satisfaction because on my next to last call I explained my next call was to my attorney, the postmaster general, and my Congressman. They called back in 20 minutes after several months of denials.
Really appreciate these videos showing not-often seen aspects of our hobby.-
Oh My God 😳😮😲 That’s Insane Mark I Can’t Believe That Happened Too Such an Amazing Rifle 😩😩😭 I Know She’s in Good Hands Now Thank Goodness 😇❤️😇
Thank you Mark. Excellent head's up.on what can happen. And how to prevent it. What a tragedy, if that was my grandpa's gun I would be fit to be tied.
good to use some 2x4 or PVC tube
to add bones to the box
I think you’re giving them too much credit. I doubt someone was supposed to catch the box. 😂
Certainly something I guess I never really considered.. It's in a well padded case so it is good to go but it appears not. Many thanks for spreading the word.
Some really good information here! Thank you. E
All great suggestions... juut one point to keep in mind is not to let plastic bubble wrap lay directly on the firearam. if it gets hot it will melt / stick to the gun. . I would first wrap the gun in an old cotton t-shorts and then wrap it.
That would just Break my heart! Hopefully it was by accident! Great recommendations on shipping out firearms. Thank you Mark!
I've had my buddy in Ten Sleep work on 5 of my Colt SAAs at different times. Although a 1,200 mile drive, one way, I drove them out and only had him ship one gun back to me. It got back ok but had a temporary UPS guy almost deliver it. My wife caught him in the neighborhood. He turned it over to her without asking for identification or getting signature.
Great advice Mark, thanks so much for sharing this 👍
We recently sent a custom barrel out for nitriding. I packaged it myself. Wrapped in bubble wrap, inside a plastic gun case, packed tight in a cardboard shipping box. The barrel arrived extremely damaged from gross mishandling during shipping. Going forward we will be shipping everything in Pelican cases with custom cut foam. It won't be cheap, but it's better than losing a $1000+ barrel. Oh, and UPS claimed "improper packaging" and denied any responsibility.
Excellent advice.
Very informative, thanks.
If that gun was shipped from a gunsmith to you he should have known better. That was a disaster waiting to happen, and it did. Great vid.
A lot of times I'll seperate the stock from the action and really pack everything tight. I've even used pvc pipe to ship important guns !
We've had the same thing happen when the stock was removed. The lower tang was bent almost 90 degrees.
@@thecinnabar8442 geez I guess wood crate is the next step !
So if the post office “buys” the firearm from the owner, do they fill out a4473 and pass a background check?
@@Frank-kc3xs They probably just destroy it. In their minds "Good Riddance!"
ouch. ups duffle cut
Great video & extremely helpful. Like Wyoming Armory, I'm a gunsmith & most of my work comes from out of state clients. People shipping firearms should anticipate the absolute worst. Long ago, their was a commercial by Samsonite Luggage in which a gorilla mercilessly beat and abused one of their suitcases. Unfortunately, you should expect no better treatment for your prized firearm from any major shipper. It is impossible to pack a firearm too well. A few minutes spent reinforcing the firearm within its shipping container will pay big dividends. Hat's off to Wyoming Armory and movie star Keith!
Imagine how much force it must have taken to break both upper and lower tangs...
Thank you 👍
Man just sick to my stomach!😢
And it’s not even mine!
Hoping for a good outcome! 👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸
I would bild a well fitting wooden crate to ship in!
Extra wood in all the critical areas!
You can't trust anyone to ship responsibly. I once had a diving tank backpack which in those days was made of solid plastic (built to take rough handling) smashed during transit with an airline. Someone literally had to run a forklift over it to do that kind of damage. And of course the airline claimed that it didn't cover anything "not used on the trip" regardless that I had been diving on the trip (whatever difference that made--complete BS backed up by their corporate offices). At the value of such a classic firearm especially but even for normal shipments of high dollar items I would make (or if you need to have someone make it) a wooden case that firmly anchored as well as padded the item inside with holddowns built in. Don't build it lightly either this kind of damage is not at all rare!! I would guess that someone who is anti gun would recognize that as a gun if the outside labeling indicated that and maybe inflict damage purposely.
Oh I know they’re gonna get abused! When I was a kid my dad ordered an antique Martini carbine. The butt was broken and the long bolt that held it on was bent. It looked like they put it on jack stands and the jumped on a few times.
Great video again! I have an Uberti 1876 in 50-95 that shoots a great PATTERN at 20-25 yards. Doesn't matter if I use black or smokeless powder. Any idea off the top of your head might cause this and possible fix? Like a match grade barrel?
There could be a great many contributing factors. I can only guess without having the rifle and ammo in hand. The first thing I would do is slug the bore to find out the exact bore diameter and make sure your bullet diameter is at least equal in diameter or slightly larger than the bore. Best of Luck.
Please do the video of that repair, regardless of the results. I'd love to hear your thought process on lining those tangs.
He's done a video of rewelding a Winchester tang before about a year ago or so I can't recall exactly
He did, but I think he had the other tang to go by.
also probably good to remove
the butt (and other easy takedown)
so it doesnt have so much leverage
for damaging it
Man that is heart breaking.
Make your own wooden box like Kibler does
Do you use laser welding? Also, pad the plastic case in the cardboard box!
That makes me sick I have faith y’all with fix it right up
I bought reloading supplies and other things from midway and the postal service lost my order and fortunately midway resent my order but it has been awful the past 5 years with shipping
My daughters entire record set and comic books were insured by the USPS, and only half of the box was delivered along with a piece of paper that told her how to claim the loss of all of her comic books.. Because the box we shipped was torn in half...
She was told that the delivery was confirmed, we agreed with half of it.. So they had no liability for any of it....
Enjoy that.
Anything worth more than $100 deserves a wooden shipping crate build around it in my opinion. Some 2x8 lumber and and bubble wrap done intelligently would be overkill.
would or would not?
@@bumpercoach Would. Overkill is what you want in shipping.
Ok. Is there anything to discuss about insurance?? If he had this insured ,what would happen?
It was discussed in some detail in the video.
@@thecinnabar8442 ya, I responded to early. Shipping is exactly why my model 94 is there. I told Cameron not to ship. I'll come get it.
@@thecinnabar8442Did you move from Paisley?
UPS likes breaking guns.
It seems like shipping companies are caring less and less about how they handle peoples packages.
I never ship a lever action with the buttstock attached.
This is why lever actions were not widely in use by the US government back then!
Egg crate foam is junk. Better off to replace with a memory foam mattress topper.
That's a real bummer, and a darn shame.
One wonders if the buttstock had a modern butt pad installed on it, if the shock would have been damped enough to prevent snapping the receiver tang. Maybe not. Not a real fan of the hard crescent butt plates. I understand why they designed them, but there's better ideas.
TELL YOUECUATMERS TO REOVE THE STOCK MAKEA SMALO PACKAGE.
The real lesson here is to pack the firearm properly with plenty of cushioning. Taking the stock off won't help if the firearm isn't packed properly. We had another high condition 1886 shipped to us earlier this year with the stock removed and no padding on the end of the tangs. The only difference was that only the lower tang was broken.
GRA 8 TUTORIAL, THANX, MARK
Ouch 😢
Harbor freight knockoff pelican gun case would probably be better then that Walmart case.🤔🧐
The type of case is far less important than how the firearm is packed in the case.
The PO is Evil and could destroy an nvil with a rubber mallet.
I shipped a Win 12 years ago and insured it for 1500 bucks and it arrived to the smith with both butt stock and forearm crushed.
The box had fork lift tread tracks across it having been run over.
The smith sent a batch of photos and I filed a clam that was denied based on insufficient pack.
I responded with:
What is sufficient to withstand a fork lift running over it?
No attorney would take the case.
Cost me 1450 to have it re-stocked.
Pack it between 2 2x6s
They make still cases for guns
It looks like it was sent FrdEX.
I just got a little sick....
These packages are combined in large shipping containers, wire cages or cribs. They're stacked and handle with forklifts in the back of semi trailers. All of the major shipping companies handle parcels the same way. Nobody handles packages one piece at a time anymore. Is it any Wonder then that some of them get damaged when they're not properly prepared for shipping. This reinforces exactly what you're saying. I've shipped my own guns off to be worked on and have never had any issues because I prepared them to survive the journey.
still handled by people before and after the larger containers
What shipping company was used so I don't do any business with them.
There is no best company, they all do it.
As I mentioned in the video, it was USPS. However, I think it's just as likely with FEDEX and UPS. The real point of this episode is to be sure to package them like you expect the shipper to try to break it.
@@thecinnabar8442which they do
@@QUESTFORCERTAINTY1 He did not specify, don't assume.
Thy Mark
Is it possible that the steel was made brittle during the hardening process?
Bummer ,show us the gun after repair
it needs to be a federal crime
to so deny constitutional rights
When your civilian justice systems are irreparably corrupt from within, what options do you have? You can try to implement all the laws and penalties under the sun, but without a willing justice system, it's worthless as the paper and time put into it.
@@exothermal.sprocket so you checked out of buying guns and ammo bcs of how its all corrupted so theyll get you?
@@bumpercoach I'm not following your snarky comment, honestly. I'm merely saying that for those who've paid attention to the Nation as of the last several years, the justice system isn't accomplishing anything of note, especially as related to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. My suggestion is the US Military justice system is the only ultimate way to bring the Federal side back in check.
this is sickening......sad as it is it's another reason to hand deliver and pick up if at all possible.....a collector restored like that isn't something that can be replaced easily if at all and having to repair really sucks the life out of it ...this would be a nightmare to me ..one i care not to have....and to be honest it kinda blows my mind that the gunsmith did that job but couldn't fit a fore end??? not trying to make it sound EZ but damn or did i miss something...
So sad
makes me want to be sick.
most gunshops dont have a clue how to ship - most wrap in bubble wrap put into a cardboard box.