Years ago I worked with a man, his name was Bob. He had been a Tail Gunner in a B-17. He told me that unlike the movies (also TV) once the crew got to know each other they were on a first name basis. They wouldn`t say "Pilot to Bombardier" or "Navigator to pilot" .It was more like "Bob, get them off my tail" etc.
I was on the Lt’s M1A1 and we would call the LTLT but the gunner ,loader and driver were by name . There are only four men to a tank verses 10 on a B17 but you get tight with your crew . Our LT was prior service enlisted Marine. But LT just stuck
Depends I guess, there are some recordings (on YT) of Bomber Command crews in Lancasters referring to each other by job, not name or title. Ie; "Skipper to Bombardier" etc. They're worth a listen to if only for the interesting mix of accents from all over the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc.
You didn't know p51 mustang top speed was 800mph and not like400- 450max with the merlin engine 😂, I wouldn't buy anything Apple so I'll never see this show for a long time and what little clips I see make it seem like a waste of viewing anyways
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusionWhile negativity is annoying you are right. I saw the commercials for this and thought to myself "This is the quality they're okay with?"
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusion LOL. but at top speed there is still a differential of 200 MPH so that's like speeding past someone standing still at 200 MPH. The Mustangs could easily outrun the bombers so them passing them quickly wasn't so bad.
The folks who do the CGI for these modern war films REALLY NEED to study the aerial footage from Twelve O'Clock High, Battle of Britain, Black Sheep, or any other film/TV series that used REAL PLANES. The modern stuff never gets it right. I always feel like I'm watching a cartoon.
Seeing all those Mustangs charging toward the incoming 109's and 190's must've been a giant spirit uplifting for those B-17 crews, after all the losses they endured. And I know everybody's griping about the CGI, and I'll admit that it's not perfect (and that the air combat wasn't as intense as their making it to be). But as long as it doesn't look like a low-budget film you'd see on the Syfy channel, I can live with this. I mean, this show was a massive project, after all, so I can forgive some imperfections for the sake of story being told.
@@Xingmey Agreed. Producers: "Shove as many pixel fighters as you an in this one space." FX people: "That's insane." Producers: "I am aware of that." Veterans and Historians: "We never had that many that close to one another. Not without propwash, and air turbulence. We also didn't have the fighters flying THROUGH the bomber formation like that." Producers: "MORE COWBELL!" Heck, i wouldn't be surprised if they snuck some TIEs and X-wings into that one shot. I expected to see Mary Effing Poppins zipping in there too.
@@chpman2013you’re not. Theyre just rivet counters. And they can’t fathom the fact that there actually were that many airplanes in the sky at once. They just like to complain. It looks just fine🤝🏻
Jesus christ the vfx work on this project remains a massive let down. Some of those aerial shots look more like star wars than the aerial combat they're trying to convey.
Yeah, seeing so many aircraft fill the frame as they engage might have thrilled whoever made it, but as far as I am concerned it is a huge turn-off. Just ridiculous, and takes you out of the story. CGI well-used is not noticed. If you are putting hundreds of millions into a show like this you could pay a guy just to remind the CGI-makers of that fact every morning at breakfast and it would be worth the money.
@London755 "This looks like Star Wars." Maybe that's because Star Wars was literally inspired by the WWII aesthetic? Of course they look similar - *that's what George Lucas was going for.* Also I'm not sure comparing this show's aerial combat to Star Wars - a franchise known for its gripping dogfights - is the criticism you think it is. The show looks fine. The story isnt great. I cant tell all these white boys apart, and it really doesnt help that Buck and Bucky have the same name. But the CGI is fine. I really dont understand what some people could be complaining about. Literally every expert who's watched this show has had nothing to complain about. People just like to complain about CGI because its the "in" thing to do. But there's really nothing here to actually criticize.
@@adambulmash6880 I've had this issue with US TV and movies for years now, they have one white boy heroic ideal,and as a result every character looks the same and I cant tell them apart, especially if they're wearing uniform
@adambulmash6880 George Lucas wasn't going for realism, he was inspired by myth and legend and yes WW2 movies like 633 Squadron. It's not the aesthetic that's important here though, it's the realism. Band Of Brothers went for realism, was not inspired by movies like the Guns of Naverone, (no George Luca's comparisons apply) so people expected similar here. Anyway the comment probably referred to the contemporary Star Wars movies not the one from 47 years ago, you know the ones with horses galloping on the surface of spaceships, etc. That shot at 2.09 is realistic only in that it has planes in the sky but many of the people interested in this series would likely be familiar with WW2 and the relevant tactics which is why there is such criticism. That shot looked designed to appeal to teenagers. People only criticise CGI when it fails. Most people are smart enough to know we see it all the time but are unaware of it. In Dunkirk people complained there wasn't enough. CGI was needed to remove the big container cranes, for example. CGI is not a problem. How it is used is.
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusionI see no fewer than 20 books in a Google search stating that the quote was exactly as stated here. Can you provide a source referencing the correct quote? In fact, this quote is dubious to begin with. It reminds me a lot of the “waking a sleeping dragon” quote allegedly said by Yamamoto after Pearl Harbor for which nobody has ever been able to produce a single source and which was likely made up during the production of the film “Tora Tora Tora.” I have a feeling something similar is going on here, because the quote from Goering seems to have not appeared in any literature that I have seen prior to the 1970s. Don’t we love fake punchy historical “quotes?”
@nicholaswilson2761 they absolutely did not say the "jig" is up. Any and all references to it I have ever read or watched say he walked out of a war meeting and saw some p51 fly overhead (apparently deeper than seen before) and he said something quick and simple along the lines of (that's it....the war is over) because their production had already been strained for years and was crippled and now with constant deep bombing they had no chance for a long defense
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusion My point is that he very, very likely did not say any variation of this whatsoever. There are at least 3 or 4 examples of this quote that float around regularly, and there is even another that suggests he referenced a specific P-51 unit’s nickname. As far I know, nobody has ever provided an original source or even explained how it reached popular consciousness. So, getting into the “exact” quote is missing the mark. It still hasn’t even been proven that he said it in the first place. He probably didn’t, and I’ll wait here for someone to produce an original primary source saying otherwise, rather than its unverified, unsourced regurgitation in many books and on the internet the world over. But, yes, to your point, the use of the word “jig” (even if translated from some other German word), is a red flag. For example, the 352nd Fighter Group claimed he specifically referenced their unit’s nickname: “I knew the war was lost when I saw the 'bluenosed bastards of Bodney' over Berlin.” I will put my money on “it didn’t happen; he didn’t say it.” He definitely said things *like* this in post-war interviews while he was imprisoned, but never anything so punchy.
In case anyone is wondering, the specific area that can be seen as getting bombed is Erkner, just outside of Berlin. So technically speaking, they were not bombing Berlin, they were bombing Erkner. The bombing on March 8, 1944 was targeting a branch of Vereinigte Kugellagerfabriken, a ball-bearing factory. About 230 people were killed, and 75% of the buildings of Erkner were either destroyed or damaged to the point where they were uninhabitable. The row of explosion you can see at 2:56 at the center right of the picture also would have hit incredibly close to the buildings of Bakelite GmbH, while the explosions that first appear at 2:54 closer to the lake on the center-left were a direct hit at the ball-bearing factory.
Perfect illustration of why the death toll figures are utterly misleading and serve to obscure the real magnitude of the allied war crimes. The city was nearly completely devastated; it wasn't a significant city, thus there were scarcely any bunkers available, yet somehow the death toll was reported as merely 230 out of the 8,234 inhabitants. Reflect on this: out of the 1,333 buildings, about 1,000 were completely and totally destroyed, and yet they assert that only 2.79% of the population was killed? That claim is highly questionable.
@@christianschulz1443 "AlLiEd WaRcRiMeS" what are you going on about? They were legitimate military targets, so not a war crime. And how would you know they didn‘t have bunkers? They were obviously significant because they had important war industry located there. And the statistics about damages and casualties came from the German side, obviously the ones least likely to try to minimize alleged "allied warcrimes".
@@OttoStrawanzinger True: the statistics about damages and casualties came from the German side, just like Goebbels' 250,000 civilians killed in Dresden 1945. Wehrmacht and police reports say something very different.In the real world many of the victims were German soldiers as Dresden was a railway hub with five major and two minor railroads transporting up to 5,000 soldiers a day plus supplies to the German east front. In Dresden was also an important war industry, small factories which were hard hit. . In the real world "Bei den Luftangriffen alliierter Bomber auf Dresden im Februar 1945 starben bis zu 25.000 Menschen." Less than 25,000 dead. The German »Historikerkommission zu den Luftangriffen auf Dresden zwischen dem 13. und 15. Februar 1945« tells us: "Heute stellte eine hochkarätige Historikerkommission im Dresdner Rathaus ihren Abschlussbericht über die Angriffe vom Februar 1945 vor. Die Spanne der Opferzahl liegt, schrecklich genug, zwischen 20.000 und 25.000
@@FandensOldemoder That number is hightly questionable as well, my suspison is that this number is the number of soldiers who died in Dresden since the the wording in the reports they rely on is strange. It uses the unusual "gefallen" and not "getötet" which would be normaly used for german civilians. "Gefallen" is a word reserved for soldiers. But its the same in principle 600 k inhabitants + an unknown number of refugees and soldiers lets say all in all 700 k the city completly obliterated in a firestorm and somehow only 3,57 % deaths ? Who would ever believe that ?? Atleast dresden as a mayor city had more bunkers but still.
@@FandensOldemoder Here is another example for you : During the battle of Warsaw 1939 around 10 % of the city was destroyed with a civilian + Military death toll of 20k which is close to that claimed for Dresden. But dresden was more than 90 % destroyed. That this makes no sense should be evident for anyone.
Herman Goering was quoted as saying after the war, that when he looked up in the sky and saw the P51s over Germany, he thought to himself.."that's it, the war's over"..something to that effect.
The B17 could not hold that many bombs, that bomb load is completly dramatized for this scene... other than that this is my favorite scene of the show so far Edit: OK so I stand corrected ive never seen a B17 drop that many bombs before, apparently for this mission they carried 100lb bombs, so they had more than usual. Now I'm curious why the switch up from using 500lb x 1000lb bombs to the smaller ones
It depended on the weight of the bomb ordinance, right? Meaning a few heavier bombs, or more lighter ones. Did the 8th always drop the same ordinance capacity or was it diversified based on the target-dropping more bomb loads some missions and fewer bombs on others?
@@martham2930 A typical B17 bomb load for a distant target like Berlin would be 8x500lb GP blast. Smaller bombs would have made little impression on built up areas and even the 500's were lacking in badaboom power for factories often leaving them roofless and looking heavily damaged to the PR BDA aircraft sent out to assess the raids impact while the actual heavy workshop machinery on the inside remained largely undamaged. The only way a B17 could disgorge 20+ bombs was if they were 'light' 100lb anti personnel, no heavier than medium artillery shells and of no use at all against industrial targets. That's not to denigrate the B17, not many aircraft could have done what they did in daylight including the best of the RAF heavy types.
Possible. Lets say they are carrying 8000 lbs. A typical shorter range bomb load. 16×500lb, 8x1000lb the two most common bombs used. 32×250lb, 22×350lb, less typical. Longer range and at a higher altitude 6000lbs.
This show looks like they throw away historical accuracy for flash....all the fighters rushing forward and meeting in a mass brawl at the front of the bombers has to he some of the dumbest and inaccurate shit ive ever seen
@jordan6049 not at all, but I'm sure you're a well known history expert or anyone with any real knowledge of past wars/tactics but sure.....keep believing that's accurate
I was hoping that the makers of this series would look at something like Roland Emmerich's _Midway_ and say: "That's WAY over the top when it comes to the aerial action scenes -- we are going to strive to make our air scenes a bit more realistic." But apparently they did not. The shot at 2:10 seems to indicate that their plan was to go even more over the top than old Roland did.
Its a shit show...actually...its a crying shame..towards the heroes as well...imagine...u as a WW2 pilot saw BoB and then this...i think you're getting sick to your stomach. It doesnt do any justice to the heroes...a cheap ass comic.
@@LordNinja109 In terms of the real-life experience of actually risking your life thousands of feet over Europe - yeah, it probably was more intense. But I guarantee nobody ever saw a real life scene in the war that looked anything like 2:11. That's pure Hollywood there. That's like a scene from a sci-fi movie.
I really dislike the music being interjected into every ruddy scene. Seems they have each B-17 unloading as much ordinance as the B-52s during Vietnam. And the producers and directors are still plugged into the SW fighter physics and placement channel.
The bomb loadout is wrong but in the opposite direction, they didn't drop enough. The real life mission they are depicting they were dropping 30x100lb incendiary and 10x100lb conventional bombs.
The enormous difference at the beginning of the campaign where you had to pretty much cross your fingers vs this moment where the enemy fighters are called and engaged by supporting aircraft.
Berlin: WW2: 360 air raids: 80000 deads. : none monument to commemorate these civilian peoples killed (with thousands of allied PoW): It is forbidden by the US power
Once the Mustangs showed up in numbers, the Thunderbolt started being used as more of a fighter-bomber. Basically, becoming the A-10 Warthog of its day.
@@chpman2013 Yes, I get how the 9th AF worked, but some 8th AF Fighter Groups refused to give up their Thunderbolts. 56th FG kept them in the escort role until the end of the war.
@@chpman2013actually it was the Mosquito fighter bomber with the two merlins..And a 57mm auto fired Cannon in the nose in the TSE TSE model that was later tested with a 96mm cannon at wars end That showed a aircraft with thrust And a soild frame Can shoot larger rounds into anything ....The 30mm And its ammo took awhile But was the best balance of firepower on the go
CGI at 3:01 looks like a ps3 video game not state of the art apple production from a company that charges 1200 for each phone. College kids can do better then this, what a disgrace
Когда Россия уничтожает военных ВСУ и наемников НАТО в Украине - это агрессия, но когда союзники ровняли Дрезден и Кёльн с мирными жителями бомбами - это была демократия 😂
Imagine the sentiment between the bombers and the fighters up until that moment. The bomber being savaged for years without proper air cover and the fighters the front men the warriors of the air being unable to help and do their job. Now with the new -51 they had the range and the will to come to their fellows aid. The shear relief the bombers must of had droing payloads in relative peace for once knowing someone finally had their backs. The emotions are just palpable in this scene.
Kedatangan p51 mustang menyambut kedatangan pemburu Jerman seperti bf 109 dan fw 190 menjadi semangat juang tersendiri bagi semua crew bomber b17 sayangnya kita tidak melihat penampilan me 262 dalam adegan ini
The CGI is really a disappointment, the Mustangs flying by are all the same and it looks like “copy and paste “ with each group afterwards. The Mustangs would have dropped their tanks when engaging the other fighters. This sequence was a let down in accuracy and quality. A good series overall but you can see they didn’t have the budget for quality CGI
Well the first set of Mustangs probably jettisoned their drop tanks just before the engagement, but the Mustangs after that appeared to have already jettisoned their drop tanks.
It’s not just poor cgi. Like you said, drop tanks would have been gone, but the fighters wouldn’t be in close formation with the bombers. The whole depiction is utterly ridiculous. The merge with the Luftwaffe looks like a crap Star Wars video game. I really have a hard time understanding how Spielberg and Hanks approved this after seeing their careful work in previous WW2 series.
Totally agree. In every episode except 6, where there weren’t any B-17 in-air shots, there has been at least one terrible cgi scene that totally ruins the immersion. In general the cgi just looks unfinished throughout the series. Can’t believe it was green lit like that.
It really feels like no one put any heart into the fx. Like no one cared enough to make it somewhat accurate and not just Hollywood cgi vomit. Literally heartbreaking to me.
@andrewkessel 100% agree. I have been anticipating this for a decade. As a former USMC fighter pilot, I can take some inaccuracies for artistic license, but this junk is unforgivable.
The CGI is hit-and-miss. Sometimes convincing, but generally poor. I'm sure the script to Masters Of The Air is precisely authentic, but visually it is a real let down.
@@centurymemes1208I would agree that if it were portrayed properly, the poor quality could be forgiven. Perfect example, Band of Brothers D-Day drop scene. Here, there is no attempt at accuracy. It’s made to look like a Star Wars ridiculous physics-defying overstuffed video game. There’s plenty of real, even color footage of actual combat. It bothers me immensely that they felt the action had to be “enhanced” to ludicrous to make it exciting. What an insult to the veterans.
During the Berlin Mission (Mission 250) the leader of the Mission strayed off course and led the lead wings of bombers, which had fighter escort to the north of the intended path. As a result the following bombers, which did not have fighter escort were attacked head on by the Luftwaffe causing terrible losses. So this scene with all the P-51B's shooting past the bombers is not accurate There was no appreciate escort when the Luftwaffe hit the bombers.
Disappointing CGI, c'mon it is 2024. And what is it with this "acting" trend nowadays? Why is every dialogue spoken out with this timid, whispering cracking voice. It is terrible to listen to.
I was planning to buy Apple TV to watch the show but this is such unrealistic BS I can't believe it. Who directed this crap? Who did they use as combat consultants? Kids who play video games? And this was supposed to be comparable to Band of Brothers or Pacific? Pathetic...
I respect and admire every one of the pilots and crews who fought in WWII. Unfortunately, this series looks like a video game and the acting less than great. Hanks should have taken this film. Spielberg did a poor job on this one.
I know we had to Win the War, but also just try and remember the Allies switched to city bombing, fire bombing. Like yeah these boys had it rough up there no doubt, butttt the legit hundreds of thousands of civilians wiped out over the war with these raids
Jesus, 2:10 looks like that scene of sentinels in the f*cking second matrix film or something. What a load of crap. Could not be more disappointing. Total ruins any sense of immersion.
You’d be wrong. The b17 was an open unpressurized aircraft. Not to mention they could hear it just like you could if you were on the ground listening to an aircraft flying overheard.
This show made me to buy the book and it’s a great read. Those guys endured a crap ton of punishment. In one part of the book it talked about a bombderdier getting knocked unconscious due an explosion which opened a big whole in the glass. All that cold air coming through froze his entire body. After landing the dude was still alive but they had to amputate his arms/legs/and nose. Crazy!
Also a bit disappointed in how the effects and staging are looking here. Band of Brothers/The Pacific strived for authenticity even if they still embraced hollywood flare here and there. I can forgive some of the CGI in Band of Brothers since it was 2001 but this is two decades later.
For everyone complaining about the number of bombs. The mission in real life they were dropping 30x100lbs incendiary and 10x100lbs conventional bombs. 40 bombs total from each B-17.
I’m sorry but I have to say I was underwhelmed by this episode and it’s the weakest one so far for me. Some of the things I was unsure of have come to a head. The fact that we didn’t see black Monday in the air was unforgivable; that’s two pivotal air scenes they have just shown us the aftermath of. It’s a creative choice likely to not over do it , but it was the wrong choice. The creators need to know the most interesting part is when they are up in the air. The narration I let slide because I thought maybe it was just me but I don’t think it adds anything and gets in the way. The show misses the commentary from veterans at the beginning like BOB and the Pacific, I know there may not be any alive, but there are interviews up to as late as last year which was likely when this was in production. The dialogue between the two Bucky’s has too many dead pauses and sometimes the sparse dialogue in general makes the show drag. Finally, the CGI on Rosenthals last flight was just really cheap looking and very CGI ish especially with the P51s and the German fighters, and I don’t believe fighter air combat looked like that. When they dropped the bombs it looked like a PC game from 1998 . As we are 7 episodes in , I have to say it hasn’t met the technical quality of The Pacific or Band of Brothers (with the exception of episode 3 and 5 which I have watched several times) .
I used to Fight fires and the 215 water bombers still had radial piston engines. when i would call them in for a drop they would fly tree top level over my head, sometimes in tandem. The ground would shake beneath your feet and you could feel the engines in your chest. I wish i could have just heard and felt all the sounds that this engagement produced.
The explosions on the ground look pretty bad. You can get better results with off the shelf software like Houdini with basic setup. I see some folks from DNeg’s Indian office worked on the show plus several little known vfx shops😢
What does the green flare mean? Is it perhaps "this is the target" or "get ready to drop bombs"? The way I interpreted the scene is that the other bomber wing missed the target but their commander knows where to fly. P.S. Saw many positive comments for the previous episode, but the diagnosed autism in me missed the dogfights. No more emotions I can't understand on faces I can't read, please. Gimme some goddamn planes!
For those that had hopes of watching this series for more scenes like this be warned, this is the entire aerial segment in that particular episode.. It's a series called Masters of the Air but only spend 3 minutes in the air for a 45 minute episode, 9 of which is extended credits.
You have to remember the narration isn’t from an historian or completely unbiased position: it’s from the perspective of a member of the 100th. They had seen P-47’s escort them before (who had to turn back early due to fuel limitations augmented by the lack of drop tanks), but now they’re almost exclusively seeing P-51’s who are able to escort the full range of the mission AND engage German fighters effectively. Of course he thinks they’re the best; they’re doing something he hadn’t seen previous fighters do yet. Before we bring ip the P-38, let’s recall that particular craft was great for intercept and destroy - not so much escort. There is a significant difference between the two, leading to different capabilities.
OK, so what was the best if not the P-51? It had outstanding range, high flight performance, was an excellent gun platform and the D had great visibility for the pilot. 262 was faster and more heavily armed, but had very slow throttle response, very low engine life (like 10 flight hours) and was so vulnerable on take off and landing Germans formed a dedicated squadron of FW-190D9s to keep Mustangs off them around airfields. Chuck Yeager and Urban Drew got 2 each in one sortie this way in Mustangs. In the Pacific, VLR Mustangs flew 7.5 hour missions from Iwo Jima and could escort B-29s from Tinian all the way to Japan from Iwo on. There were faster fighters (Me-262, Me-163, He-162) but they all had very short endurance. Heavily armed, (Me-410, He-219), but they couldn’t turn with the Mustang. Several late warJapanese fighters (Ki-84, Ki-100, A7M) had about equal performance and armament, but were limited by lack of fuel, spare parts and worst of all, experienced pilots. Japan had pilots fly Missions until they were KIA, and never developed a system of returning expert pilots to train new guys. Brits had excellent late war fighters like the Spitfire Mk IX and Tempest, but they were short range compared to the Mustang. Meteor had great speed and heavy armament, but very short endurance.
I was going to try watching this but then the P51 best fighter of the war bullshit!!!!!! Going to give it a skip, because this won't show that the US Army Air Force got their arses handed to them right royally because they were too stupid to stop bombing in daylight... just the aerial equivalent of saving Private Ryan...
One of the main plot threads of the series is the insane loss rate of the daylight bombing campaign. Most of the main characters from the first episode are dead or POWs by episode 6.
Let me talk about something I don’t know and then project my ignorance upon the entire internet is what you should’ve said. It would’ve given you slightly more credit. The first 5 episodes show how many casualties the us was suffering prior to the introduction of the p51. This whole point episode which is episode SEVEN is showing the turn of the tide on the aerial bombardment of Europe after 6 episodes of the USAAF suffering staggering losses from flak and fighters due to not having protection once passing the Channel.
In reality the fighters kept above the bomber stream and used altitude to bounce German fighters moving to attack the bombers. They tried not to fly near the bombers as the gunners often fired at them. This show is pretty crap at reality.
Acceptable losses considering the camps were being used as production facilities for the Nazi genocide machine and the railroad was also being used to mass murder people whether in the battlefield or not. Every pow's duty was to escape
Authenticity has been so eh hit or miss but the cgi is horrible. 2:40 once the controls go to the bombardier you can literally see a stream of bombs just appear in front of a plane and then one drops them and they all disappear seconds after lol so fucking cringe
It's the amount of ordinance they are dropping from each plane that is over the top. The specs allow for around 17,600 lb bombloads WITH external racks. This scene looks like they are popping two dozen 500 lb bombs from the bomb bay alone. The bomb bay can only carry half that many if they are all 500 lb bombs. This is CGI fapfest.
Oh it gets much worse. Watch the bomb impacts carefully. I could MS paint a more realistic effect than what CGI has done. They have actual combat footage of bombings, they even used it in Memphis Belle, but in this series they just smudge the crap in like an afterthought. Every bombrun in this series has them dropping the bombs right OVER the target, as opposed to just behind. The producers do not understand physics or even the basic influence of forward momentum.
The majority of that actually looked pretty realistic. Right up until they showed the bombs falling and the explosions down on the ground below. The bombs falling past the screen were pretty obvious to be CGI, and even the explosions weren’t very realistic looking. I am greatly disappointed.
The hellcat was good because it was beating up outdated A6Ms with P-47 Engines and was slower then the P-47 and P-51s. Meanwhile P-51s were fighting Bf-109s and FW-190s that were almost equal except for speed which the P-51 has a massive advantage over.
@@HelloEdits613 None of them, or rather the P-51 is a above average aircraft with strong contemporaries like Griffin Spitfire, Tempest, P-47, F4U, late 109s and 190s, etc. So the reiterate, the P-51 is a completive with it's contemporaries while not outright beating them, and excels at having long range along with the P-47N. I just feel like calling one aircraft the best aircraft, diminishes the accomplishments of others (that's just me).
The p51 wasn’t ready for service until mid to late 1944. The European bombing campaign started in 1943 and the British spitfires and us p47s didn’t have the fuel range to protect the heavies all the way to Europe and bring them home again.
@@yankeesforlife24 Yep, and the germans knew that. They would engage the bombers after the escorts had to turn back. That's why in earlier episodes there wasn't any escort depicted, they all had to turn around.
@miket1064 I'm guessing him saying the best fighter is the spitfire is like Cato the Elder finishing every speech with "and Carthage must be destroyed!" ; ) That said, a lot of this is crap. All of the flying depicted, from cgi modeling, tactics, physics, all of it is so spectacularly bad. I'm a WW2 buff and a former fighter pilot, so I'd be glad to expound on any of it.
The fact that people are currently concerned about defenseless children being bombed to pieces means they are trying to prevent it from happening like in the past, not because it is more or less horrible. I know it's hard to grasp. 🥸
@@ASB-A2B Habibi - obviously those of us who are realists understand this is part of human nature. We also know that wars Will continue to happen, regardless if there's a United Nations or a NATO or whatever. The only difference between your side and my side is how we see the world and for most of my side, we are students of History and see strong parallels here between the very strong response of the Allies against the Axis powers. I suggest you study the British bombing raids of Germany and how they went from bombing factories to bombing cities because the former approach was not working to move the Germans towards surrender. Similarly, The United States started fire bombing Japanese cities to also push them towards surrender to end the war. You see at the end of the day, those of us in the first world want peace because we value life and not death. The question is do you?
Fun fact, in this raid, there are 900 P-51s escorting 800 bombers, the entire column last 400km long.
God damn, I cant even begin to imagine that...
yea to many p51 😵💫@@PatrickPanzerschreck
That’s something the world will never see again.
This mean that there were 8900 mens in the air to the same target at the same time + German fighters
@@joecha9746 we hope
Years ago I worked with a man, his name was Bob. He had been a Tail Gunner in a B-17. He told me that unlike the movies (also TV) once the crew got to know each other they were on a first name basis. They wouldn`t say "Pilot to Bombardier" or "Navigator to pilot" .It was more like "Bob, get them off my tail" etc.
Huh never knew that
I was on the Lt’s M1A1 and we would call the LTLT but the gunner ,loader and driver were by name . There are only four men to a tank verses 10 on a B17 but you get tight with your crew . Our LT was prior service enlisted Marine. But LT just stuck
Depends I guess, there are some recordings (on YT) of Bomber Command crews in Lancasters referring to each other by job, not name or title. Ie; "Skipper to Bombardier" etc. They're worth a listen to if only for the interesting mix of accents from all over the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc.
This is the best CGI Apple was willing to buy?
Its craptacular.
outsourced to a studio in india and i shit you not,check credits
Yeah shameful 3rd world cgi. Shit, if you ever see a Bollywood movie, you are in for an experience in cheap cgi.
250,000,000.00 dollars...mwoehahaha...i guess they were Roepies...its by far the worst PS2 game i've ever seen..what a superb let down...
This was rendered on a Sega Dreamcast
The p-51 scream past the bombers like they are standing still. Standing still at something like 250 mph.
You didn't know p51 mustang top speed was 800mph and not like400- 450max with the merlin engine 😂, I wouldn't buy anything Apple so I'll never see this show for a long time and what little clips I see make it seem like a waste of viewing anyways
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusionWhile negativity is annoying you are right. I saw the commercials for this and thought to myself "This is the quality they're okay with?"
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusionshow looks complete trash honestly. Even without my pilot hat on.
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusion LOL. but at top speed there is still a differential of 200 MPH so that's like speeding past someone standing still at 200 MPH. The Mustangs could easily outrun the bombers so them passing them quickly wasn't so bad.
@A.rtificial-I.nclusion what a wack job comment geesh get a life
The folks who do the CGI for these modern war films REALLY NEED to study the aerial footage from Twelve O'Clock High, Battle of Britain, Black Sheep, or any other film/TV series that used REAL PLANES. The modern stuff never gets it right. I always feel like I'm watching a cartoon.
That’s still difficult
You make it sound like CGI is easy to do when in reality its hard as hell. Plus asking for real aircraft is already difficult and more expensive.
@@andsoiderparound9909there's video games that look better than this
@@башарал does that happen to be DCS? If so, then the actors and lighting would be out of place.
Seeing all those Mustangs charging toward the incoming 109's and 190's must've been a giant spirit uplifting for those B-17 crews, after all the losses they endured.
And I know everybody's griping about the CGI, and I'll admit that it's not perfect (and that the air combat wasn't as intense as their making it to be). But as long as it doesn't look like a low-budget film you'd see on the Syfy channel, I can live with this. I mean, this show was a massive project, after all, so I can forgive some imperfections for the sake of story being told.
too bad it looks like a low budget film....
@@Xingmey Agreed.
Producers: "Shove as many pixel fighters as you an in this one space."
FX people: "That's insane."
Producers: "I am aware of that."
Veterans and Historians: "We never had that many that close to one another. Not without propwash, and air turbulence. We also didn't have the fighters flying THROUGH the bomber formation like that."
Producers: "MORE COWBELL!"
Heck, i wouldn't be surprised if they snuck some TIEs and X-wings into that one shot. I expected to see Mary Effing Poppins zipping in there too.
@@tr4480 I think I got the point.
@@Xingmey I guess I'm just a little too forgiving, then.
@@chpman2013you’re not. Theyre just rivet counters. And they can’t fathom the fact that there actually were that many airplanes in the sky at once. They just like to complain. It looks just fine🤝🏻
Jesus christ the vfx work on this project remains a massive let down.
Some of those aerial shots look more like star wars than the aerial combat they're trying to convey.
Yeah, seeing so many aircraft fill the frame as they engage might have thrilled whoever made it, but as far as I am concerned it is a huge turn-off. Just ridiculous, and takes you out of the story. CGI well-used is not noticed. If you are putting hundreds of millions into a show like this you could pay a guy just to remind the CGI-makers of that fact every morning at breakfast and it would be worth the money.
@London755 "This looks like Star Wars." Maybe that's because Star Wars was literally inspired by the WWII aesthetic? Of course they look similar - *that's what George Lucas was going for.* Also I'm not sure comparing this show's aerial combat to Star Wars - a franchise known for its gripping dogfights - is the criticism you think it is. The show looks fine. The story isnt great. I cant tell all these white boys apart, and it really doesnt help that Buck and Bucky have the same name. But the CGI is fine. I really dont understand what some people could be complaining about. Literally every expert who's watched this show has had nothing to complain about. People just like to complain about CGI because its the "in" thing to do. But there's really nothing here to actually criticize.
@@adambulmash6880 I've had this issue with US TV and movies for years now, they have one white boy heroic ideal,and as a result every character looks the same and I cant tell them apart, especially if they're wearing uniform
@adambulmash6880 George Lucas wasn't going for realism, he was inspired by myth and legend and yes WW2 movies like 633 Squadron. It's not the aesthetic that's important here though, it's the realism. Band Of Brothers went for realism, was not inspired by movies like the Guns of Naverone, (no George Luca's comparisons apply) so people expected similar here. Anyway the comment probably referred to the contemporary Star Wars movies not the one from 47 years ago, you know the ones with horses galloping on the surface of spaceships, etc. That shot at 2.09 is realistic only in that it has planes in the sky but many of the people interested in this series would likely be familiar with WW2 and the relevant tactics which is why there is such criticism. That shot looked designed to appeal to teenagers. People only criticise CGI when it fails. Most people are smart enough to know we see it all the time but are unaware of it. In Dunkirk people complained there wasn't enough. CGI was needed to remove the big container cranes, for example. CGI is not a problem. How it is used is.
@@Ukraineaissance2014you dumbass, this is ww2, most pilots were white lol
Man they realllly phoned it in with the CGI. Nothing flies like that.
Incorrect
Absolutely correct
At first I was like, doesn't look too bad, then I saw the shot of all the fighters zig zagging and shooting and I was like... oh...
The shot of the mustangs fighting the bf109s looked like it was being fast forwarded making all those fighters look like bugs flying around lol
" When I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the Jig was up". Goering...
If you're going to put quotations you have to at least be close to being correct.....Jesus christ 😂😂
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusionI see no fewer than 20 books in a Google search stating that the quote was exactly as stated here. Can you provide a source referencing the correct quote?
In fact, this quote is dubious to begin with. It reminds me a lot of the “waking a sleeping dragon” quote allegedly said by Yamamoto after Pearl Harbor for which nobody has ever been able to produce a single source and which was likely made up during the production of the film “Tora Tora Tora.” I have a feeling something similar is going on here, because the quote from Goering seems to have not appeared in any literature that I have seen prior to the 1970s.
Don’t we love fake punchy historical “quotes?”
@nicholaswilson2761 they absolutely did not say the "jig" is up. Any and all references to it I have ever read or watched say he walked out of a war meeting and saw some p51 fly overhead (apparently deeper than seen before) and he said something quick and simple along the lines of (that's it....the war is over) because their production had already been strained for years and was crippled and now with constant deep bombing they had no chance for a long defense
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusion My point is that he very, very likely did not say any variation of this whatsoever. There are at least 3 or 4 examples of this quote that float around regularly, and there is even another that suggests he referenced a specific P-51 unit’s nickname. As far I know, nobody has ever provided an original source or even explained how it reached popular consciousness. So, getting into the “exact” quote is missing the mark. It still hasn’t even been proven that he said it in the first place. He probably didn’t, and I’ll wait here for someone to produce an original primary source saying otherwise, rather than its unverified, unsourced regurgitation in many books and on the internet the world over.
But, yes, to your point, the use of the word “jig” (even if translated from some other German word), is a red flag.
For example, the 352nd Fighter Group claimed he specifically referenced their unit’s nickname: “I knew the war was lost when I saw the 'bluenosed bastards of Bodney' over Berlin.”
I will put my money on “it didn’t happen; he didn’t say it.” He definitely said things *like* this in post-war interviews while he was imprisoned, but never anything so punchy.
Goering, and Hitler, were too stoned to know what was what!
In case anyone is wondering, the specific area that can be seen as getting bombed is Erkner, just outside of Berlin. So technically speaking, they were not bombing Berlin, they were bombing Erkner. The bombing on March 8, 1944 was targeting a branch of Vereinigte Kugellagerfabriken, a ball-bearing factory. About 230 people were killed, and 75% of the buildings of Erkner were either destroyed or damaged to the point where they were uninhabitable. The row of explosion you can see at 2:56 at the center right of the picture also would have hit incredibly close to the buildings of Bakelite GmbH, while the explosions that first appear at 2:54 closer to the lake on the center-left were a direct hit at the ball-bearing factory.
Perfect illustration of why the death toll figures are utterly misleading and serve to obscure the real magnitude of the allied war crimes. The city was nearly completely devastated; it wasn't a significant city, thus there were scarcely any bunkers available, yet somehow the death toll was reported as merely 230 out of the 8,234 inhabitants. Reflect on this: out of the 1,333 buildings, about 1,000 were completely and totally destroyed, and yet they assert that only 2.79% of the population was killed? That claim is highly questionable.
@@christianschulz1443 "AlLiEd WaRcRiMeS" what are you going on about? They were legitimate military targets, so not a war crime. And how would you know they didn‘t have bunkers? They were obviously significant because they had important war industry located there. And the statistics about damages and casualties came from the German side, obviously the ones least likely to try to minimize alleged "allied warcrimes".
@@OttoStrawanzinger True: the statistics about damages and casualties came from the German side, just like Goebbels' 250,000 civilians killed in Dresden 1945. Wehrmacht and police reports say something very different.In the real world many of the victims were German soldiers as Dresden was a railway hub with five major and two minor railroads transporting up to 5,000 soldiers a day plus supplies to the German east front. In Dresden was also an important war industry, small factories which were hard hit.
.
In the real world "Bei den Luftangriffen alliierter Bomber auf Dresden im Februar 1945 starben bis zu 25.000 Menschen." Less than 25,000 dead.
The German »Historikerkommission zu den Luftangriffen auf Dresden zwischen dem 13. und 15. Februar 1945« tells us: "Heute stellte eine hochkarätige Historikerkommission im Dresdner Rathaus ihren Abschlussbericht über die Angriffe vom Februar 1945 vor. Die Spanne der Opferzahl liegt, schrecklich genug, zwischen 20.000 und 25.000
@@FandensOldemoder That number is hightly questionable as well, my suspison is that this number is the number of soldiers who died in Dresden since the the wording in the reports they rely on is strange. It uses the unusual "gefallen" and not "getötet" which would be normaly used for german civilians. "Gefallen" is a word reserved for soldiers. But its the same in principle 600 k inhabitants + an unknown number of refugees and soldiers lets say all in all 700 k the city completly obliterated in a firestorm and somehow only 3,57 % deaths ? Who would ever believe that ?? Atleast dresden as a mayor city had more bunkers but still.
@@FandensOldemoder Here is another example for you : During the battle of Warsaw 1939 around 10 % of the city was destroyed with a civilian + Military death toll of 20k which is close to that claimed for Dresden. But dresden was more than 90 % destroyed. That this makes no sense should be evident for anyone.
Man this CGI blows
Herman Goering was quoted as saying after the war, that when he looked up in the sky and saw the P51s over Germany, he thought to himself.."that's it, the war's over"..something to that effect.
@jjahsepuyeshed "When I saw those P51s over Berlin I knew the jig was up''.
At least you're 1000x closer to his actual statement than the guy above you, lol
It was over Berlin, he alleged spok3.
it was not the p51 alone, it was the mass of planes.
The B17 could not hold that many bombs, that bomb load is completly dramatized for this scene... other than that this is my favorite scene of the show so far
Edit: OK so I stand corrected ive never seen a B17 drop that many bombs before, apparently for this mission they carried 100lb bombs, so they had more than usual. Now I'm curious why the switch up from using 500lb x 1000lb bombs to the smaller ones
It depended on the weight of the bomb ordinance, right? Meaning a few heavier bombs, or more lighter ones. Did the 8th always drop the same ordinance capacity or was it diversified based on the target-dropping more bomb loads some missions and fewer bombs on others?
The B 17 had the same bomb load as the RAF mosquitoes !!!
@@martham2930
A typical B17 bomb load for a distant target like Berlin would be 8x500lb GP blast.
Smaller bombs would have made little impression on built up areas and even the 500's were lacking in badaboom power for factories often leaving them roofless and looking heavily damaged to the PR BDA aircraft sent out to assess the raids impact while the actual heavy workshop machinery on the inside remained largely undamaged.
The only way a B17 could disgorge 20+ bombs was if they were 'light' 100lb anti personnel, no heavier than medium artillery shells and of no use at all against industrial targets.
That's not to denigrate the B17, not many aircraft could have done what they did in daylight including the best of the RAF heavy types.
@@martham2930 "Ordnance"
Possible. Lets say they are carrying 8000 lbs. A typical shorter range bomb load. 16×500lb, 8x1000lb the two most common bombs used. 32×250lb, 22×350lb, less typical. Longer range and at a higher altitude 6000lbs.
You wouldn't hear the bombs hitting the ground for at least 20 seconds after impact.. That really bugs me..
The CGI is terrible
This show looks like they throw away historical accuracy for flash....all the fighters rushing forward and meeting in a mass brawl at the front of the bombers has to he some of the dumbest and inaccurate shit ive ever seen
lol ok
@@jordan6049 it's ok to cry fanboy. You can still enjoy trash media
@@A.rtificial-I.nclusion It is funny because it is pretty darn accurate but whatever
@jordan6049 not at all, but I'm sure you're a well known history expert or anyone with any real knowledge of past wars/tactics but sure.....keep believing that's accurate
I was hoping that the makers of this series would look at something like Roland Emmerich's _Midway_ and say: "That's WAY over the top when it comes to the aerial action scenes -- we are going to strive to make our air scenes a bit more realistic."
But apparently they did not. The shot at 2:10 seems to indicate that their plan was to go even more over the top than old Roland did.
It *does* look a bit like "Independence Day," doesn't it?
Ironically it's still actually less intense than real life.
Its a shit show...actually...its a crying shame..towards the heroes as well...imagine...u as a WW2 pilot saw BoB and then this...i think you're getting sick to your stomach. It doesnt do any justice to the heroes...a cheap ass comic.
@@LordNinja109 In terms of the real-life experience of actually risking your life thousands of feet over Europe - yeah, it probably was more intense. But I guarantee nobody ever saw a real life scene in the war that looked anything like 2:11. That's pure Hollywood there. That's like a scene from a sci-fi movie.
@@LordNinja109 Watch Battle of Britain from 1969, that's more realistic than this.
I really dislike the music being interjected into every ruddy scene.
Seems they have each B-17 unloading as much ordinance as the B-52s during Vietnam.
And the producers and directors are still plugged into the SW fighter physics and placement channel.
And the heroic music while bombing a city is also a bit... morbid.
The bomb loadout is wrong but in the opposite direction, they didn't drop enough. The real life mission they are depicting they were dropping 30x100lb incendiary and 10x100lb conventional bombs.
The enormous difference at the beginning of the campaign where you had to pretty much cross your fingers vs this moment where the enemy fighters are called and engaged by supporting aircraft.
when I watch CGI ...I just - don't care
Berlin: WW2: 360 air raids: 80000 deads. : none monument to commemorate these civilian peoples killed (with thousands of allied PoW): It is forbidden by the US power
Haven’t watched this series yet but after watching this clip I’m not sure I’ll bother. So unrealistic. It’s like watching Star Wars.
Perhaps Real Housewives is more your speed.
@@dane4453 Perhaps something more respectful toward the memory of those in the air and on the ground than this CGI mares nest?
@@dane4453 more entertaining than this garbage
@@tr4480sorry but those in the air deserved a more realistic depiction that this BS CGI it’s a slap in the face to those who served
Lol, who hurt you?@@beggottenson1869
The use of drop tanks and new fuel efficient engines gave the Mustangs and the Thunderbolts a longer range
The Rolls Royce Merlin made the P51 a viable aircraft a British engine
@@derekfrederick2180Thunderbolt and Lightning groups were doing deep penetration ramrods as well
Once the Mustangs showed up in numbers, the Thunderbolt started being used as more of a fighter-bomber. Basically, becoming the A-10 Warthog of its day.
@@chpman2013 Yes, I get how the 9th AF worked, but some 8th AF Fighter Groups refused to give up their Thunderbolts. 56th FG kept them in the escort role until the end of the war.
@@chpman2013actually it was the Mosquito fighter bomber with the two merlins..And a 57mm auto fired Cannon in the nose in the TSE TSE model that was later tested with a 96mm cannon at wars end That showed a aircraft with thrust And a soild frame Can shoot larger rounds into anything ....The 30mm And its ammo took awhile But was the best balance of firepower on the go
CGI at 3:01 looks like a ps3 video game not state of the art apple production from a company that charges 1200 for each phone. College kids can do better then this, what a disgrace
Когда Россия уничтожает военных ВСУ и наемников НАТО в Украине - это агрессия, но когда союзники ровняли Дрезден и Кёльн с мирными жителями бомбами - это была демократия 😂
Imagine the sentiment between the bombers and the fighters up until that moment. The bomber being savaged for years without proper air cover and the fighters the front men the warriors of the air being unable to help and do their job. Now with the new -51 they had the range and the will to come to their fellows aid. The shear relief the bombers must of had droing payloads in relative peace for once knowing someone finally had their backs. The emotions are just palpable in this scene.
I love this show but it got bumped from a 9/10 to a 7/10 for me when they had the protagonist SLEEP THROUGH D DAY
exactly
Yeah that pissed me off
What did you expect?
for the biggest event of ww2 to not be slept through? seriosuly what do you think i expected.@@BrowncoatGofAZ
Unbroken has a much better CGI than this lol
incredible face wash of a war crime ;)
You'd have to wonder how many B17s got shot down accidentally by gunners in other B17s.
2:12 mosquitos in my room when i try to sleep☹️
Kedatangan p51 mustang menyambut kedatangan pemburu Jerman seperti bf 109 dan fw 190 menjadi semangat juang tersendiri bagi semua crew bomber b17 sayangnya kita tidak melihat penampilan me 262 dalam adegan ini
The CGI is really a disappointment, the Mustangs flying by are all the same and it looks like “copy and paste “ with each group afterwards. The Mustangs would have dropped their tanks when engaging the other fighters. This sequence was a let down in accuracy and quality. A good series overall but you can see they didn’t have the budget for quality CGI
Well the first set of Mustangs probably jettisoned their drop tanks just before the engagement, but the Mustangs after that appeared to have already jettisoned their drop tanks.
It’s not just poor cgi. Like you said, drop tanks would have been gone, but the fighters wouldn’t be in close formation with the bombers. The whole depiction is utterly ridiculous. The merge with the Luftwaffe looks like a crap Star Wars video game. I really have a hard time understanding how Spielberg and Hanks approved this after seeing their careful work in previous WW2 series.
Totally agree. In every episode except 6, where there weren’t any B-17 in-air shots, there has been at least one terrible cgi scene that totally ruins the immersion. In general the cgi just looks unfinished throughout the series. Can’t believe it was green lit like that.
It really feels like no one put any heart into the fx. Like no one cared enough to make it somewhat accurate and not just Hollywood cgi vomit. Literally heartbreaking to me.
@andrewkessel 100% agree. I have been anticipating this for a decade. As a former USMC fighter pilot, I can take some inaccuracies for artistic license, but this junk is unforgivable.
The CGI is hit-and-miss. Sometimes convincing, but generally poor. I'm sure the script to Masters Of The Air is precisely authentic, but visually it is a real let down.
Its decent. good enough. what matters is how its portrayed. pretty great series
As long is it doesn't look too much like a video game, I can live with the CGI presented here.
@@centurymemes1208I would agree that if it were portrayed properly, the poor quality could be forgiven. Perfect example, Band of Brothers D-Day drop scene. Here, there is no attempt at accuracy. It’s made to look like a Star Wars ridiculous physics-defying overstuffed video game. There’s plenty of real, even color footage of actual combat. It bothers me immensely that they felt the action had to be “enhanced” to ludicrous to make it exciting. What an insult to the veterans.
@@tonyzender5752You are so right...a real insult to the vets...couldn't agree more
Still doesn't beat Battle of Britain film from the 60s 😅
Yeah I mean, how you finna top what can probably be considered the best aerial combat film of all time?
During the Berlin Mission (Mission 250) the leader of the Mission strayed off course and led the lead wings of bombers, which had fighter escort to the north of the intended path. As a result the following bombers, which did not have fighter escort were attacked head on by the Luftwaffe causing terrible losses. So this scene with all the P-51B's shooting past the bombers is not accurate There was no appreciate escort when the Luftwaffe hit the bombers.
The actor they found for Rosenthal has the best cockpit voice in history. Brilliant casting
Forget about the CGI i care about the story about what those man basicaly young man, kids with 19 23 years made that time
War Crime
Disappointing CGI, c'mon it is 2024. And what is it with this "acting" trend nowadays? Why is every dialogue spoken out with this timid, whispering cracking voice. It is terrible to listen to.
I was planning to buy Apple TV to watch the show but this is such unrealistic BS I can't believe it. Who directed this crap? Who did they use as combat consultants? Kids who play video games? And this was supposed to be comparable to Band of Brothers or Pacific? Pathetic...
I respect and admire every one of the pilots and crews who fought in WWII. Unfortunately, this series looks like a video game and the acting less than great. Hanks should have taken this film. Spielberg did a poor job on this one.
at this point in the war i am not sure how many really capable pilots the germans even had.
2:12 I’m claiming bull S*** this happened in real life. Makes good viewing though 🙄
Around 2:12 there's a very Stargate SG-1 Battle of Antarctica moment as the two groups of fighters meet,
I know we had to Win the War, but also just try and remember the Allies switched to city bombing, fire bombing. Like yeah these boys had it rough up there no doubt, butttt the legit hundreds of thousands of civilians wiped out over the war with these raids
Jesus, 2:10 looks like that scene of sentinels in the f*cking second matrix film or something. What a load of crap. Could not be more disappointing. Total ruins any sense of immersion.
Recorded in 2023 and still this crappy CGI, I don’t get it😢😢😢😢
What is the soundrack played in this sequence?
In meiner Meinung nach, BF 109G war viel besser als Mustang P 51D
Look at the added contrails. Trying to normalize.
I don't think the bomber crews would've heard the fighter engines as they passed.
You’d be wrong. The b17 was an open unpressurized aircraft. Not to mention they could hear it just like you could if you were on the ground listening to an aircraft flying overheard.
this show blows lol. we went from band of brothers to this shit and we had to do the pacific in-between
Mustangs meant life
This show made me to buy the book and it’s a great read. Those guys endured a crap ton of punishment. In one part of the book it talked about a bombderdier getting knocked unconscious due an explosion which opened a big whole in the glass. All that cold air coming through froze his entire body. After landing the dude was still alive but they had to amputate his arms/legs/and nose. Crazy!
Also a bit disappointed in how the effects and staging are looking here. Band of Brothers/The Pacific strived for authenticity even if they still embraced hollywood flare here and there. I can forgive some of the CGI in Band of Brothers since it was 2001 but this is two decades later.
For everyone complaining about the number of bombs. The mission in real life they were dropping 30x100lbs incendiary and 10x100lbs conventional bombs. 40 bombs total from each B-17.
The fx looks crap imo. Like cartoon
I was like 'get in' when the P51's turned up! 👍
I guess you can't say "Kraut" on YT.
I’m sorry but I have to say I was underwhelmed by this episode and it’s the weakest one so far for me. Some of the things I was unsure of have come to a head. The fact that we didn’t see black Monday in the air was unforgivable; that’s two pivotal air scenes they have just shown us the aftermath of. It’s a creative choice likely to not over do it , but it was the wrong choice. The creators need to know the most interesting part is when they are up in the air. The narration I let slide because I thought maybe it was just me but I don’t think it adds anything and gets in the way. The show misses the commentary from veterans at the beginning like BOB and the Pacific, I know there may not be any alive, but there are interviews up to as late as last year which was likely when this was in production. The dialogue between the two Bucky’s has too many dead pauses and sometimes the sparse dialogue in general makes the show drag. Finally, the CGI on Rosenthals last flight was just really cheap looking and very CGI ish especially with the P51s and the German fighters, and I don’t believe fighter air combat looked like that. When they dropped the bombs it looked like a PC game from 1998 . As we are 7 episodes in , I have to say it hasn’t met the technical quality of The Pacific or Band of Brothers (with the exception of episode 3 and 5 which I have watched several times) .
I used to Fight fires and the 215 water bombers still had radial piston engines. when i would call them in for a drop they would fly tree top level over my head, sometimes in tandem. The ground would shake beneath your feet and you could feel the engines in your chest. I wish i could have just heard and felt all the sounds that this engagement produced.
The explosions on the ground look pretty bad. You can get better results with off the shelf software like Houdini with basic setup. I see some folks from DNeg’s Indian office worked on the show plus several little known vfx shops😢
Sooo fake smh all this whole show is inaccurate
Bombardeaban ciudades, mataban civiles, cuando se hablara de estos crímenes de guerra? La serie parece buena, aún no la.pude ver.
Imagine how much friendly fire must happened on the both sides in such a dense combat
What does the green flare mean? Is it perhaps "this is the target" or "get ready to drop bombs"? The way I interpreted the scene is that the other bomber wing missed the target but their commander knows where to fly.
P.S. Saw many positive comments for the previous episode, but the diagnosed autism in me missed the dogfights. No more emotions I can't understand on faces I can't read, please. Gimme some goddamn planes!
P51 the best...LOOOOL
That ain’t Berlin
Graphics are crap
Steel from the East, steel from the West, steel from the South and hell from above.
Really impressive in recreating the March 1944 Berlin raid!
I had such high hopes foe this series as well.....shame
why there are no Me 262 ?
Because this episode shows the happenings of spirng 1944. The 262s later attacked the bombers...
More importantly why are USAAF B-17's being shown dropping the bomb load of RAF Lancaster's!!!
Hollywood!@@richardvernon317
This was early '44. The 262 didn't show up until around mid to late '44.
@@VictoriaCortes1717the 100th bomb group didn’t receive B17Gs until later.
For those that had hopes of watching this series for more scenes like this be warned, this is the entire aerial segment in that particular episode.. It's a series called Masters of the Air but only spend 3 minutes in the air for a 45 minute episode, 9 of which is extended credits.
Lame af
"P51 - hands down the best fighter plane of the war".
Very arguable.
You have to remember the narration isn’t from an historian or completely unbiased position: it’s from the perspective of a member of the 100th. They had seen P-47’s escort them before (who had to turn back early due to fuel limitations augmented by the lack of drop tanks), but now they’re almost exclusively seeing P-51’s who are able to escort the full range of the mission AND engage German fighters effectively. Of course he thinks they’re the best; they’re doing something he hadn’t seen previous fighters do yet.
Before we bring ip the P-38, let’s recall that particular craft was great for intercept and destroy - not so much escort. There is a significant difference between the two, leading to different capabilities.
what are you? british who licks spitfires for breakfast?
Nicht ganz richtig,die ME 262 war das schnellste. Sie kam nur zu spät.
OK, so what was the best if not the P-51? It had outstanding range, high flight performance, was an excellent gun platform and the D had great visibility for the pilot. 262 was faster and more heavily armed, but had very slow throttle response, very low engine life (like 10 flight hours) and was so vulnerable on take off and landing Germans formed a dedicated squadron of FW-190D9s to keep Mustangs off them around airfields. Chuck Yeager and Urban Drew got 2 each in one sortie this way in Mustangs. In the Pacific, VLR Mustangs flew 7.5 hour missions from Iwo Jima and could escort B-29s from Tinian all the way to Japan from Iwo on. There were faster fighters (Me-262, Me-163, He-162) but they all had very short endurance. Heavily armed, (Me-410, He-219), but they couldn’t turn with the Mustang. Several late warJapanese fighters (Ki-84, Ki-100, A7M) had about equal performance and armament, but were limited by lack of fuel, spare parts and worst of all, experienced pilots. Japan had pilots fly Missions until they were KIA, and never developed a system of returning expert pilots to train new guys. Brits had excellent late war fighters like the Spitfire Mk IX and Tempest, but they were short range compared to the Mustang. Meteor had great speed and heavy armament, but very short endurance.
@@berndschweitzer7750 But the 262 burned through engines faster than it burned through fuel.
Goering: "I knew the war was lost when I saw P-51s fly over Berlin."
I was going to try watching this but then the P51 best fighter of the war bullshit!!!!!! Going to give it a skip, because this won't show that the US Army Air Force got their arses handed to them right royally because they were too stupid to stop bombing in daylight... just the aerial equivalent of saving Private Ryan...
One of the main plot threads of the series is the insane loss rate of the daylight bombing campaign. Most of the main characters from the first episode are dead or POWs by episode 6.
You did not watch any of the episodes did you?
Let me talk about something I don’t know and then project my ignorance upon the entire internet is what you should’ve said. It would’ve given you slightly more credit. The first 5 episodes show how many casualties the us was suffering prior to the introduction of the p51. This whole point episode which is episode SEVEN is showing the turn of the tide on the aerial bombardment of Europe after 6 episodes of the USAAF suffering staggering losses from flak and fighters due to not having protection once passing the Channel.
cAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW THOSE mACHINE-GUNNERS KEEP FROM STRAFFING THEIR OWN PLANES?
In reality the fighters kept above the bomber stream and used altitude to bounce German fighters moving to attack the bombers. They tried not to fly near the bombers as the gunners often fired at them. This show is pretty crap at reality.
Chemtrails everywhere!!!
Fogo amigo? Frend fire?
Jajaja
How do they know which fighters are friend or enemy?
During this war I believe it was through roundels and both sides using different aircraft.
0:05 the motion is off, doesn't the editor know what a plane looks like when flying? Not a copy-paste hackjob like that!
Yeah those P51s at the start are flying like they are about to land.
@@sean_dBingo! Aiming down...but flying up; what?!
How they avoid friendly fire in this kind of situation?
You can’t. War is hell
@@rubenlopez3364 Thats bad formation and strategy. the commander is awful.
1944 Prison camps getting no food relief cuz the Allied air force intensify targeting railroads yards
Acceptable losses considering the camps were being used as production facilities for the Nazi genocide machine and the railroad was also being used to mass murder people whether in the battlefield or not. Every pow's duty was to escape
Berlin ??!!!! That looks like a wooded area .
I believe their target was on the outskirts of the city
Authenticity has been so eh hit or miss but the cgi is horrible. 2:40 once the controls go to the bombardier you can literally see a stream of bombs just appear in front of a plane and then one drops them and they all disappear seconds after lol so fucking cringe
It's the amount of ordinance they are dropping from each plane that is over the top. The specs allow for around 17,600 lb bombloads WITH external racks.
This scene looks like they are popping two dozen 500 lb bombs from the bomb bay alone. The bomb bay can only carry half that many if they are all 500 lb bombs.
This is CGI fapfest.
Oh it gets much worse.
Watch the bomb impacts carefully. I could MS paint a more realistic effect than what CGI has done.
They have actual combat footage of bombings, they even used it in Memphis Belle, but in this series they just smudge the crap in like an afterthought.
Every bombrun in this series has them dropping the bombs right OVER the target, as opposed to just behind.
The producers do not understand physics or even the basic influence of forward momentum.
the p51 wan t the best plane in ww2 the ta 152 was the best.
P-51H is far better
With games like Hell Let Loose, Squad so popular, how cool would a game like this be
Il-2 sturmovik
DCS maybe
Fxckin awesome
This show is so good
The majority of that actually looked pretty realistic. Right up until they showed the bombs falling and the explosions down on the ground below.
The bombs falling past the screen were pretty obvious to be CGI, and even the explosions weren’t very realistic looking. I am greatly disappointed.
0:11 Tell that to the Hellcat
The hellcat was good because it was beating up outdated A6Ms with P-47 Engines and was slower then the P-47 and P-51s. Meanwhile P-51s were fighting Bf-109s and FW-190s that were almost equal except for speed which the P-51 has a massive advantage over.
0:09 This upsets me to the point that I don't even know what to say.
What do you consider the best fighter then?
@@HelloEdits613 None of them, or rather the P-51 is a above average aircraft with strong contemporaries like Griffin Spitfire, Tempest, P-47, F4U, late 109s and 190s, etc. So the reiterate, the P-51 is a completive with it's contemporaries while not outright beating them, and excels at having long range along with the P-47N. I just feel like calling one aircraft the best aircraft, diminishes the accomplishments of others (that's just me).
I didn’t get it but why didn’t they get any of these escort in their first raid in berlin
fighters did not have the range at that point.
The p51 wasn’t ready for service until mid to late 1944. The European bombing campaign started in 1943 and the British spitfires and us p47s didn’t have the fuel range to protect the heavies all the way to Europe and bring them home again.
@@yankeesforlife24 Yep, and the germans knew that. They would engage the bombers after the escorts had to turn back. That's why in earlier episodes there wasn't any escort depicted, they all had to turn around.
whoooaaa !!!!
This series is crap. So many mistakes. And the best fighter is the Spitfire.
Didn’t see many Spitfires over Berlin! And why do you say it’s crap. What are the crappy parts?
@miket1064 I'm guessing him saying the best fighter is the spitfire is like Cato the Elder finishing every speech with "and Carthage must be destroyed!" ; ) That said, a lot of this is crap. All of the flying depicted, from cgi modeling, tactics, physics, all of it is so spectacularly bad. I'm a WW2 buff and a former fighter pilot, so I'd be glad to expound on any of it.
You need to educate yourself. If the British did stop the German advance then the Mustang would never existed.
Crap?….. Bombs do not fall from an aircraft in a perfectly vertical line as shown in this series. Just one amateur mistake.
@@spitfirenutspitfirenut4835 From the perspective of another plane in the formation, they do.
And people think Gaza is horrible, they clearly have never studied the bombings of Germany or Japan by the Allies.
Then you clearly never studied h*locaust and nanking
The fact that people are currently concerned about defenseless children being bombed to pieces means they are trying to prevent it from happening like in the past, not because it is more or less horrible. I know it's hard to grasp. 🥸
@@ASB-A2B Habibi - obviously those of us who are realists understand this is part of human nature. We also know that wars Will continue to happen, regardless if there's a United Nations or a NATO or whatever. The only difference between your side and my side is how we see the world and for most of my side, we are students of History and see strong parallels here between the very strong response of the Allies against the Axis powers. I suggest you study the British bombing raids of Germany and how they went from bombing factories to bombing cities because the former approach was not working to move the Germans towards surrender. Similarly, The United States started fire bombing Japanese cities to also push them towards surrender to end the war. You see at the end of the day, those of us in the first world want peace because we value life and not death. The question is do you?
How is it more horrible
@@BarryAllen__1A23 Google Dresden or Tokyo fire bombing