The postgame content forced an online community to form around the game, which generated more talk around the game and therefore helped to sell more copies of the game. Absolutely ingenious game design.
It’s funny how you complain so much about how the post game has no real puzzles, but when you find one that requires you to think a bit [seed bunny, blackboard puzzle, etc] it’s all of a sudden unreasonable for a little guy like you to figure out
Honestly. It's a game that has puzzles that need you to learn if you don't already know, or seek other people. The rabbits are meant to be a community effort as well. It's also cringe to give credit to Dunkey, when all he did was publish the game.
@@giveluminacat10nobles21 I loved the game but think that the dev made a mistake underestimating the community, it's not fun when everything was solved in 5 days. The puzzle clearly failed, by the way they talk in the audios.
@@cacaman1391 it's something hard to predict imo. There's games with huge player bases that have had secrets discovered after years, and games like animal well where it's found incredibly quickly. Just depends on how things land.
@@cacaman1391 Lol, I wouldn't say it was a failure, because they were insanely complicated and brilliant. They just had the problem of being a single mind against the collective consciousness of the internet.
Welp, 100% disagree with the take on the totems with pips. Yes, I tried like 2 or 3 times to match a note with a totem, but it didn't make a lot of sense with the totems being a single number. What's the next obvious thing to notice? The pip graphics on the totems do not match the ones on the wall. Next obvious thing, every pip totem has a distinct matching symbol above it without fail. Next obvious thing, symbols match the stamps in your map, puzzle likely has to do with map. Next obvious step, record this data on your map. Granted this took a while so I just recorded data and tried not to jump to any conclusions until I had a lot of points, noticed the pattern of 1 to 5 with matching symbols near each other. Continue to logical conclusion. None of this takes leaps and bounds of deduction. I didn't have to come close to looking up a solution for this. The only failure comes from seeing one thing and getting fixated on that without exploring other possibilities. Which to be honest sounds like a problem with how the video creator probably played the post-game. To be fair I've watched a content creator play this that also tended to get fixated on a single idea or initial assumption for no reason. It's frustrating to watch, so maybe people who do this will also get frustrated when they expect their assumption to be right.
Also the whole having to use your water teleport, while I get COULD be hard to come up with, I'm not a genius and I was able to come up with this. Info 1: by playing the game you should know remote switches is global, you can change it elsewhere and it will persist. Info 2: there are a few areas in the game such as in the fish area after the bubble drop where falling in the water will send you REALLY far back and also to where you left the ground, teaching you that you can use that to warp (it even shows you that you can alter the state of the remote blocks before warping back, as it can block you out from going back down). It even teaches you that you can stand on remote blocks to not reset your position if you pay attention. Info 3: you can see a few close by areas that have water that you might be able to use, granted it will take some fancy movement tech, it's not unreasonable to come to this conclusion. Binary one: Lines don't make sense at first. If you happen to use the black light on the pips around the flute chest, you find that the same lines correspond with 1, 2, and 4. What are these? Powers of 2. You may need a bit of real life skill check here to make the jump to binary but I think it gives you enough obvious clues to not have to spell it out any more.
TLDR: I would say most of these puzzles are great. They actually have a lot of logical hints that lead you towards the answer if you're willing to open up your mind a bit, explore, be a little creative and think outside the box. The game has also taught you or shown you a lot of what you need to know before hand as well. The question is were you observant enough to pick up on this knowledge.
I think every puzzle was pretty logical in it's own internal logic. The game demands you to pay attention to all the details of game to solve it. Why give you a pensil to draw on the map? oh there a puzzle to draw on the map, and there a stamp for each symbol of the tottems to help you plot them. The only one that's kinda a dick move is the snail room that's not solvable normally. I don't this is your type of puzzle game which is fine but doesn't make it wrong or bad.
The bunny puzzles do kinda suck, but I feel like this is getting steamed over extra optional content because you want to frame it as the true end. You talk about Ending A being a lackluster-feeling ending, and then never even mention the all-eggs "Ending B" ending which involves absolutely none of this stuff and is seen as the actual true end. You also present the "bunny end" as just getting flight, rather than it being the message from the dev that that's all supposed to get you geared up for. The ending for all the extra stuff here straight up says "I didn't think anyone would get here", none of these things were really meant to be what a normal person would do. You basically got halfway through a bunch of super-optional content, stopped before the end of that content, and then said you thought the ending sucked.
The point of the bunny puzzles was to provide post-game content to a committed fanbase of people who love ARGs - it was, after all, an ARG. The puzzles were designed to foster community and collaboration - things that the game's creator, Billy Basso, values. They were punishingly difficult and obtuse, deliberately made so that no one person could solve them alone, so that a bunch of like-minded people could work together to find a cool hidden ending. They're very well designed, to that end, and served exactly the purpose they were made with the intention of serving. The endgame puzzles aren't poorly designed, they're just not made for a single player to solve. It's an ARG. If you're not fond of ARGs, that's fine, and you are not the target demographic of the post-game content, which is presumably why you found it so lackluster, but I think it's inaccurate to describe that as a failing of the game.
Billy Basso literally said layer 3 puzzles "don't present themselves" and even "not supposed to be solved" and here OP complaining about lack of signposting. Post-ending puzzles aren't bad, they are made for people who loved the core game and give them reasons to stay and find more. From another point of view, these puzzles are also kinda genius, as people who noticed them but can't solve will resolve to searching for guides, and then something something TH-cam algorithm... game gets promoted.
Yeah this is the one. Single player games are more successful when they have an active online community as it drives interest in the games from outsiders. That's part of the reason why the Switch LoZ games were so successful is because their was an active community sharing info about things they had discovered. Those games are so massive it would be near impossible for one person to discover all there is to see and do without committing their entire life to it, but one can easily still beat the game and have their own adventure and experience without ever going online. I am not particularly good at metroidvanias, I've only beat a couple of metroids, and not a single castlevania. But I was able to beat the game without ever looking up anything. So far in the post game, the only thing I've looked up is where to find the rest of the cat songs after I found the first one. And that was more impatience than anything. I still have a lot left to do, I've only been playing it here and there, but I feel like each layer is a fitting amount of obtuse. And I feel like you can definitely get your moneys worth without ever getting to the third layer or looking anything up, or interacting with the community.
Dude, the bunny stuff wasn't supposed to be solved solo and the thing after the moth wasn't expected to be solved at all let alone within just a few weeks after it launched. You completely ignored the egg hunt and True Ending, which are still in the realm of puzzles that players could reasonably be expected to find and solve all on their own. Just getting to the True Ending should satisfy most players that thought the regular ending was a little too abrupt. The bunnies and beyond are for those who really enjoyed the game and want to see and try to figure out everything there is hidden in the game.
I watched with the intention of shitting on the video, but after watching I think the majority of what he said is quite fair. Could’ve said it a bit less egregiously, but most of his points were fair. I see what the creator was going for with collaborative stuff for streamers and ‘super nerds’ to share their thoughts have fun with, but I think the points in this video do have merit that if you went in blind and didn’t look anything up you’d probably just be like wtf and give up after the first run, which can leave a bad taste in the perception of people who aren’t super tryhards that like to 100% everything at the cost of their life/souls 💩 Its definitely something the developers can learn from looking to the future. The satisfaction of solving a puzzle is diminished if it’s so convoluted you have to look it up, especially if it makes you go “really? Wtf?” instead of “ahhh, thats cool”
Mostly disagree. Solutions to the puzzles are hinted at throughout the game. Actually your journey through the game gave you a lot of info needed to solve a bunch of the puzzles if you were actually paying attention and thinking about how things work. I think the basic ending where you collect all the eggs (this in itself I don't think actually takes too much thinking) is a reasonable ending imo. The world is left with a lot of mysteries but it is in itself a mysterious game about discovery and exploration. You come to your own conclusions through what you've seen and experienced. I went in blind, and didn't look anything up until I had already collected a ton of bunnies, and didn't actually look up the ones I hadn't gotten or at least tried not to (I just had to look up the mural one as it seemed impossible from all the testing I did.) I haven't actually collected all the bunnies personally, but the ones I have collected have all ranged from "that was standard" to "that was creative", with very few being "really? wtf"
@@myclamish I'm going to be honest, I didn't play it. Looks like a great game, thus why I went in with intent to shit on the video and defend it. It doesn't change that people will have different perceptions, and lets be real here, it's even moreso the attention span of the average person these days has shrunken to abysmal levels; the point I'm trying to make here is if people can really misconstrue what's being shown to them to the point where they give up and make a video like this, then there is room for improvement. I'd consider myself pretty perceptive at puzzles so I would assume I'd probably fall more in line with you if I had played the game, but you yourself admit you haven't collected all the bunnies; those are probably the ones he is specifically talking about.
@prestonleebenjamin pretty sure the bunnies he's talking about are the ones being shown. I've collected the ones being shown. They're generally thoughtful. I find that the complaints in this video tend to fall into the category of fixation or not being thorough or needing to think more laterally. I don't think puzzle games should be dumbed down if the answer can be logically arrived at. Like the few I can slightly agree with is the one where you have to brush away vines with alternate controls, and only because there is 0 hint at using the mouse (I played on a steam deck so I happened to brush/touch the screen and found out that way)... like this is kinda reminiscent of tunic, but tunic at least mentions the holy cross constantly I know there are some harder ones but considering it's post game content I think the bunnies have a reasonable ramping of difficulty
They only have merit if you completely ignored layer 2 and the second ending! He only described the first ending with fireworks, but the second ending is all that is required to 100% the game. You can get all achievements, including the achievement denoting that you have all other achievements without doing any of the difficult bunnies. Most people will run into the UV bunny or reach the one after the bubble/spike room easily and then never find any of the other bunnies unless they really enjoyed the game and those sorts of crazy hard ARG puzzles.
I do agree that the symbol totems are easily mixed-up with the flute pips, at first. But I still believe they're a reasonable puzzle, you just need to be calm enough to give up on the flute once you realize you don't have enough information. Consider that they're a two-part message with symbols+pips. Your flute only works with the pips, while the symbols can only be associated with the map stamps. After that begins the hunt for all of the totems - which becomes a new game in and of itself, with how the Lantern must be used to complete it. (Plus, the totems only show up in a certain vertical height range! You can notice this pattern easily once you start documenting, so it becomes easier.) As for the bunny that requires the mouse/shaking the game window... Screw that one. There's no signposting in that room that signals that you can find a bunny or a code. Absolutely nothing. I looked outside of that room and everywhere else around it, and found NOTHING that hints at that. So, assuming that you're someone scouring the map for bunnies... Why would you think to turn up your brightness and use the mouse on the vines?! Worst 'puzzle' in the game, by far. No contest. I myself wasn't 'smart' enough to get all the bunnies without spoilers, including discounting the bunny mural. I mean... interpreting grass as a barcode so that you need a smartphone to solve it? Too meta for every person figure out on their own. The disc spikes room requires pure dumb luck to figure out you can land on your own disc. Floor-is-lava bunny was evil, but I honestly love that kind of obscurity - it breeds community, knowing that there's a mystery right there, but no clear way to solve it. The crows were clever, they were in a grid formation. And the blob next to the flowers reminded me of a puzzle in Tunic, so I knew about the bulbs on the Load Game menu before I discovered that mural... I suppose I had some metatextual assistance there, though I failed to realize it was the sparkles and needed a spoiler for the last push. Bah
2:19 The mural is of a bunny, not a snail. See my other comment for wider critique, but this one irked me just because it is a picture of a bunny next to a series of seed-pods at various stages of opening, so I feel the solution is not unearned - as evidenced by people solving it. I'm sorry that the post-game content diminished your enjoyment of the game. I don't think it's poorly designed, I think that you're just not the target audience - which is of course fine, there are loads of games I don't enjoy, but I don't think that's necessarily due to the game, sometimes certain gameplay styles don't appeal to people, and ARGs are clearly that way for you.
The puzzles aren't bad, they're designed to be an arg to be solved by people who solve args that are insane. Also the mural puzzle is solvable on your own, but it is infinitesimally impossible someone would figure that on their own aswell. You'd have to delete your save data to the root and start the game as if you just installed it, and the game will pick a 1 in 50 seed that will determine your flowers and mural (yes they're random, compare your file screen to this guys file screen, his file two flower is most likely different to his). So to solve the mural on your own you first need to figure out there is some game state seed mechanic going on, start a fresh game and do a 34 egg speedrun grabbing the top and remote, revealing your shard and noting it down. I predict it would take 200 runs minimum before you have all 50 shards assuming there are no look alikes. Also protip for the floor is lava bun for those still doing it, the moving blocks in the dog head toom and the room you have to Jump into the water for the warp don't count as safe ground, so you can stop and rest there. Also dunkey didn't make the game, Billy Basso did, that's miss info. Take it from me. A foolishly foolish fool who completed the OPTIONAL rabbit hunt twice. Yes to 100% tge game the rabbits are not needed, this 3rd layer is only for the arg buffs and the insane people like me. It is not for 100% Billy Basso confirmed that personally to Seaniedew
Agree on majority of the video. Was really disappointed with the rabbits, but the "disc kaizo" one is cool and not unreasonable to find. The other one where you "manipulate" respawning is technically cool and clever. The problem is you think of 100 different options than that being the solution (like any other flute code one maybe).
This just seems like a video to whine about something just for the sake of whining. Billy basso said it so himself , its supposed to be a community challenge / puzzle.
This video helped me understand why Animal Well left a sour taste in my mouth. If the game had a satisfying first ending, I'd love it. But everything about that ending screams, "There's more to find! You're not done!!" The developer wanted to tantalize players into diving into the badly-designed sludge that follows.
There is more, after the first set of credits, I found 4 more items, 32+ more eggs, a second end boss, another world outside of the well, and a second set of end credits. What you are calling "badly-designed sludge" isn't even a part of that second "true" ending. If you actually listened to the developer talk about the game, he said that there is stuff in layer 3 that he doubts anyone will ever find, but it's in the game simply so that he will know it is there.
@@FelipeKana1 What?!?! I found all 65 of them without any online help. The s medal was obvious, the 1st piece of k medal dropped when I scared the kangaroo away for the first time, the wheel took a bit longer to crack than I care to admit, but playing the flute to tp caused the lights above the cage to go off, and the UV light was extremely helpful and obvious with the flute station right there. with those 4 "extra" items, all the remaining eggs were easy to find. The eggs are all easy with obvious clues. You don't need help to get all the eggs unless you are lazy.
Mad because bad. This game is tied to a number of several ARGs that happened before it's release. You do not need to do **ANY** of these puzzles to get all the achievements in the game. Henceforth, in spirit of of all the ARGs that pre-dated this game's release, that I'm sure you probably don't even know about, most of the puzzles of the post-game for extra endings that add nothing to your save but some fluff, are simply a way to get the community together to solve them. There is absolutely 0 reason to solve all these extraneous puzzles, you get nothing out of it of any particular worth as far as your game's adventure is concerned. This game was built with the intention to bring a community together. Just because you can't solve all these bonus, extra puzzles, by yourself, it doesn't make them bad whatsoever. They require you to think outside the box and work with other people who own the game, which is genious as by the mere existence of these puzzles, the developer just created a massive community of players who work together to solve them. "But **I** *want* to solve all the puzzles myself" You bought the wrong game. Expecting the game to be what **YOU** want is selfish and delusional. Developer clearly had intent in making things as ridiculous and "unsolvable" from the start, as you will know if you unlock one of the endings. If anything, your lack of willpower to participate in these puzzles and the accusation that they are badly designed puzzles because you couldn't solve them doesn't make the puzzles bad. It makes you a bad gamer, if anything. If all you look for in games in general are dead obvious puzzles that anyone can solve with enough time so you can 100% the game and get even the slightest amount of self-worth out of it, I really don't know what to tell you. This game is unique and fresh, and there's a great reason why it gets so much praise. Not for everyone I suppose, as with everything in life. All I gotta say: Mad because bad.
Not to defend this guy, but if your game is just to be played by one narrow "in-group" community, then just sell it to them. There are more people in the world, that will just se the trailer and buy it thinking it's a normal game.
@@FelipeKana1 It is a normal game up to the end-end game. You can solve everything up to the second ending on your lonesome. I did. And it wasn't really hard or unfair. Sure, some puzzles had me stuck for a while, but they were nothing near to what this fella complains about in the video. The intent of the rest of the secrets is what requires the community to really gather and stuff. Still, you have a point. But this game also falls into the "TH-camr advertise game" type of game, where your favorite YTber will play it and you'll just "follow the sheep" and buy it too.
@@FelipeKana1Layer 1/first ending is completely doable for anyone and the second ending is pretty much doable for anyone given enough time. Just because the bunny's were designed to be a community effort doesn't mean the entire game was made for an "in-group" community
@@FelipeKana1 Every achievement in the game is gained without the need to solve any obtuse bunny puzzles. It's completely optional post-game content that exists for the kind of community that actively seeks it out. I haven't done all the bunny puzzles, and it has in no way diminished my love and appreciation for the game. The game is a complete game without the bunny puzzles. The post-game is bonus for people who want the community challenge - something VERY common within the metroidvania genre.
Tbh I think the biggest problem is the ease of the spike jump bunny. The bunnys should be all lunatic stuff or not at all. Does no real good to make people think they're actually doable with reasonable puzzles when half are arg-type stuff.
I don't know, I almost think it added something with how ridiculously varied the bunny puzzles were. I got about half of them on my own before looking. Seeing that one involved printing an using an origami guide is hilarious. The real giveaway though to me at least, is the mural puzzle. The fact that it can't be done at all with less than 50 people really decisively says 'this portion of the game is not for an individual to play, it's for a collective to play'. The creator of this video complaining because the community puzzles were impossible for them as an individual tells me they really just missed the point and wished it was something it's not. Also... Maybe I'm crazy and have WAY too much coding background, but it seems crazy to me that the binary code seemed impossible to solve. Even if you don't understand binary, all you have to do is try adding the line values. The only reason it's noteworthy that it's binary is because that's one way to make sure all line combinations add to a unique number, and every number has a line combination. That one seemed like the most obvious layer 3 puzzle by far. Anyway, sorry, haha. I don't really disagree with your comment, I apparently just wanted to rant against the video creator and for some reason did it as a comment reply.
I'm sure that 99% of the people in the comments section defending this game would have the complete and opposite reaction if the game wasn't sponsored by Dunkey
![Animal Well has bad puzzles [-and I'm just a little guy]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XcLQGuoBY1E/mqdefault.jpg)
![Animal Well has bad puzzles [-and I'm just a little guy]](/img/tr.png)
The postgame content forced an online community to form around the game, which generated more talk around the game and therefore helped to sell more copies of the game. Absolutely ingenious game design.
you’re absolutely right. i hope devs don’t catch on to this
The other endings are supposed to be like an ARG and are not intended to be solved by normal players
It’s funny how you complain so much about how the post game has no real puzzles, but when you find one that requires you to think a bit [seed bunny, blackboard puzzle, etc] it’s all of a sudden unreasonable for a little guy like you to figure out
Honestly. It's a game that has puzzles that need you to learn if you don't already know, or seek other people. The rabbits are meant to be a community effort as well. It's also cringe to give credit to Dunkey, when all he did was publish the game.
@@giveluminacat10nobles21 I loved the game but think that the dev made a mistake underestimating the community, it's not fun when everything was solved in 5 days. The puzzle clearly failed, by the way they talk in the audios.
@@cacaman1391 it's something hard to predict imo. There's games with huge player bases that have had secrets discovered after years, and games like animal well where it's found incredibly quickly. Just depends on how things land.
@@cacaman1391 Lol, I wouldn't say it was a failure, because they were insanely complicated and brilliant. They just had the problem of being a single mind against the collective consciousness of the internet.
Welp, 100% disagree with the take on the totems with pips. Yes, I tried like 2 or 3 times to match a note with a totem, but it didn't make a lot of sense with the totems being a single number. What's the next obvious thing to notice? The pip graphics on the totems do not match the ones on the wall. Next obvious thing, every pip totem has a distinct matching symbol above it without fail. Next obvious thing, symbols match the stamps in your map, puzzle likely has to do with map. Next obvious step, record this data on your map. Granted this took a while so I just recorded data and tried not to jump to any conclusions until I had a lot of points, noticed the pattern of 1 to 5 with matching symbols near each other. Continue to logical conclusion.
None of this takes leaps and bounds of deduction. I didn't have to come close to looking up a solution for this.
The only failure comes from seeing one thing and getting fixated on that without exploring other possibilities. Which to be honest sounds like a problem with how the video creator probably played the post-game. To be fair I've watched a content creator play this that also tended to get fixated on a single idea or initial assumption for no reason. It's frustrating to watch, so maybe people who do this will also get frustrated when they expect their assumption to be right.
Also the whole having to use your water teleport, while I get COULD be hard to come up with, I'm not a genius and I was able to come up with this. Info 1: by playing the game you should know remote switches is global, you can change it elsewhere and it will persist. Info 2: there are a few areas in the game such as in the fish area after the bubble drop where falling in the water will send you REALLY far back and also to where you left the ground, teaching you that you can use that to warp (it even shows you that you can alter the state of the remote blocks before warping back, as it can block you out from going back down). It even teaches you that you can stand on remote blocks to not reset your position if you pay attention. Info 3: you can see a few close by areas that have water that you might be able to use, granted it will take some fancy movement tech, it's not unreasonable to come to this conclusion.
Binary one: Lines don't make sense at first. If you happen to use the black light on the pips around the flute chest, you find that the same lines correspond with 1, 2, and 4. What are these? Powers of 2. You may need a bit of real life skill check here to make the jump to binary but I think it gives you enough obvious clues to not have to spell it out any more.
TLDR: I would say most of these puzzles are great. They actually have a lot of logical hints that lead you towards the answer if you're willing to open up your mind a bit, explore, be a little creative and think outside the box. The game has also taught you or shown you a lot of what you need to know before hand as well. The question is were you observant enough to pick up on this knowledge.
I think every puzzle was pretty logical in it's own internal logic. The game demands you to pay attention to all the details of game to solve it. Why give you a pensil to draw on the map? oh there a puzzle to draw on the map, and there a stamp for each symbol of the tottems to help you plot them. The only one that's kinda a dick move is the snail room that's not solvable normally. I don't this is your type of puzzle game which is fine but doesn't make it wrong or bad.
The bunny puzzles do kinda suck, but I feel like this is getting steamed over extra optional content because you want to frame it as the true end. You talk about Ending A being a lackluster-feeling ending, and then never even mention the all-eggs "Ending B" ending which involves absolutely none of this stuff and is seen as the actual true end. You also present the "bunny end" as just getting flight, rather than it being the message from the dev that that's all supposed to get you geared up for. The ending for all the extra stuff here straight up says "I didn't think anyone would get here", none of these things were really meant to be what a normal person would do. You basically got halfway through a bunch of super-optional content, stopped before the end of that content, and then said you thought the ending sucked.
The point of the bunny puzzles was to provide post-game content to a committed fanbase of people who love ARGs - it was, after all, an ARG. The puzzles were designed to foster community and collaboration - things that the game's creator, Billy Basso, values. They were punishingly difficult and obtuse, deliberately made so that no one person could solve them alone, so that a bunch of like-minded people could work together to find a cool hidden ending. They're very well designed, to that end, and served exactly the purpose they were made with the intention of serving.
The endgame puzzles aren't poorly designed, they're just not made for a single player to solve. It's an ARG. If you're not fond of ARGs, that's fine, and you are not the target demographic of the post-game content, which is presumably why you found it so lackluster, but I think it's inaccurate to describe that as a failing of the game.
You are missing the point of the late game puzzles they are not meant to solved on your own they are supposed to be collaborative.
Wait till you hear about Noita.
Or Tunic
thanks for the recommendations lmao
lmao. good comment. noita would have this guy rolling in his grave
the post game is just ARG porn. but the main game is great and i love it
Billy Basso literally said layer 3 puzzles "don't present themselves" and even "not supposed to be solved" and here OP complaining about lack of signposting. Post-ending puzzles aren't bad, they are made for people who loved the core game and give them reasons to stay and find more. From another point of view, these puzzles are also kinda genius, as people who noticed them but can't solve will resolve to searching for guides, and then something something TH-cam algorithm... game gets promoted.
running around the whole map with a UV light isn’t a puzzle, it’s annoying
Yeah this is the one. Single player games are more successful when they have an active online community as it drives interest in the games from outsiders. That's part of the reason why the Switch LoZ games were so successful is because their was an active community sharing info about things they had discovered. Those games are so massive it would be near impossible for one person to discover all there is to see and do without committing their entire life to it, but one can easily still beat the game and have their own adventure and experience without ever going online.
I am not particularly good at metroidvanias, I've only beat a couple of metroids, and not a single castlevania. But I was able to beat the game without ever looking up anything. So far in the post game, the only thing I've looked up is where to find the rest of the cat songs after I found the first one. And that was more impatience than anything. I still have a lot left to do, I've only been playing it here and there, but I feel like each layer is a fitting amount of obtuse. And I feel like you can definitely get your moneys worth without ever getting to the third layer or looking anything up, or interacting with the community.
"Not supposed to be solved" is just a bad excuse
Dude, the bunny stuff wasn't supposed to be solved solo and the thing after the moth wasn't expected to be solved at all let alone within just a few weeks after it launched. You completely ignored the egg hunt and True Ending, which are still in the realm of puzzles that players could reasonably be expected to find and solve all on their own. Just getting to the True Ending should satisfy most players that thought the regular ending was a little too abrupt. The bunnies and beyond are for those who really enjoyed the game and want to see and try to figure out everything there is hidden in the game.
I watched with the intention of shitting on the video, but after watching I think the majority of what he said is quite fair. Could’ve said it a bit less egregiously, but most of his points were fair.
I see what the creator was going for with collaborative stuff for streamers and ‘super nerds’ to share their thoughts have fun with, but I think the points in this video do have merit that if you went in blind and didn’t look anything up you’d probably just be like wtf and give up after the first run, which can leave a bad taste in the perception of people who aren’t super tryhards that like to 100% everything at the cost of their life/souls 💩
Its definitely something the developers can learn from looking to the future.
The satisfaction of solving a puzzle is diminished if it’s so convoluted you have to look it up, especially if it makes you go “really? Wtf?” instead of “ahhh, thats cool”
Totally agree
Mostly disagree. Solutions to the puzzles are hinted at throughout the game. Actually your journey through the game gave you a lot of info needed to solve a bunch of the puzzles if you were actually paying attention and thinking about how things work.
I think the basic ending where you collect all the eggs (this in itself I don't think actually takes too much thinking) is a reasonable ending imo. The world is left with a lot of mysteries but it is in itself a mysterious game about discovery and exploration. You come to your own conclusions through what you've seen and experienced.
I went in blind, and didn't look anything up until I had already collected a ton of bunnies, and didn't actually look up the ones I hadn't gotten or at least tried not to (I just had to look up the mural one as it seemed impossible from all the testing I did.) I haven't actually collected all the bunnies personally, but the ones I have collected have all ranged from "that was standard" to "that was creative", with very few being "really? wtf"
@@myclamish I'm going to be honest, I didn't play it. Looks like a great game, thus why I went in with intent to shit on the video and defend it.
It doesn't change that people will have different perceptions, and lets be real here, it's even moreso the attention span of the average person these days has shrunken to abysmal levels; the point I'm trying to make here is if people can really misconstrue what's being shown to them to the point where they give up and make a video like this, then there is room for improvement.
I'd consider myself pretty perceptive at puzzles so I would assume I'd probably fall more in line with you if I had played the game, but you yourself admit you haven't collected all the bunnies; those are probably the ones he is specifically talking about.
@prestonleebenjamin pretty sure the bunnies he's talking about are the ones being shown. I've collected the ones being shown. They're generally thoughtful. I find that the complaints in this video tend to fall into the category of fixation or not being thorough or needing to think more laterally. I don't think puzzle games should be dumbed down if the answer can be logically arrived at.
Like the few I can slightly agree with is the one where you have to brush away vines with alternate controls, and only because there is 0 hint at using the mouse (I played on a steam deck so I happened to brush/touch the screen and found out that way)... like this is kinda reminiscent of tunic, but tunic at least mentions the holy cross constantly
I know there are some harder ones but considering it's post game content I think the bunnies have a reasonable ramping of difficulty
They only have merit if you completely ignored layer 2 and the second ending! He only described the first ending with fireworks, but the second ending is all that is required to 100% the game. You can get all achievements, including the achievement denoting that you have all other achievements without doing any of the difficult bunnies. Most people will run into the UV bunny or reach the one after the bubble/spike room easily and then never find any of the other bunnies unless they really enjoyed the game and those sorts of crazy hard ARG puzzles.
I do agree that the symbol totems are easily mixed-up with the flute pips, at first. But I still believe they're a reasonable puzzle, you just need to be calm enough to give up on the flute once you realize you don't have enough information. Consider that they're a two-part message with symbols+pips. Your flute only works with the pips, while the symbols can only be associated with the map stamps. After that begins the hunt for all of the totems - which becomes a new game in and of itself, with how the Lantern must be used to complete it. (Plus, the totems only show up in a certain vertical height range! You can notice this pattern easily once you start documenting, so it becomes easier.)
As for the bunny that requires the mouse/shaking the game window... Screw that one. There's no signposting in that room that signals that you can find a bunny or a code. Absolutely nothing. I looked outside of that room and everywhere else around it, and found NOTHING that hints at that. So, assuming that you're someone scouring the map for bunnies... Why would you think to turn up your brightness and use the mouse on the vines?! Worst 'puzzle' in the game, by far. No contest.
I myself wasn't 'smart' enough to get all the bunnies without spoilers, including discounting the bunny mural. I mean... interpreting grass as a barcode so that you need a smartphone to solve it? Too meta for every person figure out on their own. The disc spikes room requires pure dumb luck to figure out you can land on your own disc. Floor-is-lava bunny was evil, but I honestly love that kind of obscurity - it breeds community, knowing that there's a mystery right there, but no clear way to solve it.
The crows were clever, they were in a grid formation. And the blob next to the flowers reminded me of a puzzle in Tunic, so I knew about the bulbs on the Load Game menu before I discovered that mural... I suppose I had some metatextual assistance there, though I failed to realize it was the sparkles and needed a spoiler for the last push. Bah
AI voice = invalid opinion
Still a correct opinion.
2:44 I've never seen anyone mention this puzzle anywhere else until now. Where can I find the plant pod location? I want to do this.
If you search up furyforged bunny locations it will tell you. That video has almost the entire end game but he doesn't have a wingdings guide yet
2:19
The mural is of a bunny, not a snail. See my other comment for wider critique, but this one irked me just because it is a picture of a bunny next to a series of seed-pods at various stages of opening, so I feel the solution is not unearned - as evidenced by people solving it.
I'm sorry that the post-game content diminished your enjoyment of the game. I don't think it's poorly designed, I think that you're just not the target audience - which is of course fine, there are loads of games I don't enjoy, but I don't think that's necessarily due to the game, sometimes certain gameplay styles don't appeal to people, and ARGs are clearly that way for you.
damn, i love the crisp radio tone of your voice recording
acording to the true end , theres only one being in htis game that can break glass , if you need to complete the map .
The puzzles aren't bad, they're designed to be an arg to be solved by people who solve args that are insane. Also the mural puzzle is solvable on your own, but it is infinitesimally impossible someone would figure that on their own aswell. You'd have to delete your save data to the root and start the game as if you just installed it, and the game will pick a 1 in 50 seed that will determine your flowers and mural (yes they're random, compare your file screen to this guys file screen, his file two flower is most likely different to his). So to solve the mural on your own you first need to figure out there is some game state seed mechanic going on, start a fresh game and do a 34 egg speedrun grabbing the top and remote, revealing your shard and noting it down. I predict it would take 200 runs minimum before you have all 50 shards assuming there are no look alikes.
Also protip for the floor is lava bun for those still doing it, the moving blocks in the dog head toom and the room you have to Jump into the water for the warp don't count as safe ground, so you can stop and rest there.
Also dunkey didn't make the game, Billy Basso did, that's miss info.
Take it from me. A foolishly foolish fool who completed the OPTIONAL rabbit hunt twice. Yes to 100% tge game the rabbits are not needed, this 3rd layer is only for the arg buffs and the insane people like me. It is not for 100% Billy Basso confirmed that personally to Seaniedew
Critique, don't insult.
Agree on majority of the video. Was really disappointed with the rabbits, but the "disc kaizo" one is cool and not unreasonable to find. The other one where you "manipulate" respawning is technically cool and clever. The problem is you think of 100 different options than that being the solution (like any other flute code one maybe).
Lmao Sour Grapes
This just seems like a video to whine about something just for the sake of whining.
Billy basso said it so himself , its supposed to be a community challenge / puzzle.
me when a puzzle game requires me to think:
i agree
What text to speech did you use? Nice video, by the way.
www.naturalreaders.com
You can get 5,000 free characters a day, it's pretty good.
@@RRBBiixx Thanks!
@@Gogetarockz999 what
?! It is AI?!
@@HatAt Yeah.
I didn't notice until someone pointed out wow
In a weird way, I liked your video.
skill issue
absolutley
This video helped me understand why Animal Well left a sour taste in my mouth. If the game had a satisfying first ending, I'd love it. But everything about that ending screams, "There's more to find! You're not done!!" The developer wanted to tantalize players into diving into the badly-designed sludge that follows.
There is more, after the first set of credits, I found 4 more items, 32+ more eggs, a second end boss, another world outside of the well, and a second set of end credits. What you are calling "badly-designed sludge" isn't even a part of that second "true" ending. If you actually listened to the developer talk about the game, he said that there is stuff in layer 3 that he doubts anyone will ever find, but it's in the game simply so that he will know it is there.
@@truthedministrydude, many of the eggs aren't solvable without online info
@@FelipeKana1 What?!?! I found all 65 of them without any online help. The s medal was obvious, the 1st piece of k medal dropped when I scared the kangaroo away for the first time, the wheel took a bit longer to crack than I care to admit, but playing the flute to tp caused the lights above the cage to go off, and the UV light was extremely helpful and obvious with the flute station right there. with those 4 "extra" items, all the remaining eggs were easy to find. The eggs are all easy with obvious clues. You don't need help to get all the eggs unless you are lazy.
@@FelipeKana1i want you to repeat what you just said again, slowly. Then ask yourself how the online info got there
It's a 34 mb game , what else did you expect ?
Mad because bad.
This game is tied to a number of several ARGs that happened before it's release. You do not need to do **ANY** of these puzzles to get all the achievements in the game. Henceforth, in spirit of of all the ARGs that pre-dated this game's release, that I'm sure you probably don't even know about, most of the puzzles of the post-game for extra endings that add nothing to your save but some fluff, are simply a way to get the community together to solve them. There is absolutely 0 reason to solve all these extraneous puzzles, you get nothing out of it of any particular worth as far as your game's adventure is concerned. This game was built with the intention to bring a community together. Just because you can't solve all these bonus, extra puzzles, by yourself, it doesn't make them bad whatsoever. They require you to think outside the box and work with other people who own the game, which is genious as by the mere existence of these puzzles, the developer just created a massive community of players who work together to solve them.
"But **I** *want* to solve all the puzzles myself"
You bought the wrong game. Expecting the game to be what **YOU** want is selfish and delusional. Developer clearly had intent in making things as ridiculous and "unsolvable" from the start, as you will know if you unlock one of the endings. If anything, your lack of willpower to participate in these puzzles and the accusation that they are badly designed puzzles because you couldn't solve them doesn't make the puzzles bad. It makes you a bad gamer, if anything. If all you look for in games in general are dead obvious puzzles that anyone can solve with enough time so you can 100% the game and get even the slightest amount of self-worth out of it, I really don't know what to tell you. This game is unique and fresh, and there's a great reason why it gets so much praise. Not for everyone I suppose, as with everything in life. All I gotta say:
Mad because bad.
Not to defend this guy, but if your game is just to be played by one narrow "in-group" community, then just sell it to them. There are more people in the world, that will just se the trailer and buy it thinking it's a normal game.
@@FelipeKana1 It is a normal game up to the end-end game. You can solve everything up to the second ending on your lonesome. I did. And it wasn't really hard or unfair. Sure, some puzzles had me stuck for a while, but they were nothing near to what this fella complains about in the video. The intent of the rest of the secrets is what requires the community to really gather and stuff.
Still, you have a point. But this game also falls into the "TH-camr advertise game" type of game, where your favorite YTber will play it and you'll just "follow the sheep" and buy it too.
@@FelipeKana1Layer 1/first ending is completely doable for anyone and the second ending is pretty much doable for anyone given enough time. Just because the bunny's were designed to be a community effort doesn't mean the entire game was made for an "in-group" community
@@FelipeKana1 Every achievement in the game is gained without the need to solve any obtuse bunny puzzles. It's completely optional post-game content that exists for the kind of community that actively seeks it out. I haven't done all the bunny puzzles, and it has in no way diminished my love and appreciation for the game. The game is a complete game without the bunny puzzles. The post-game is bonus for people who want the community challenge - something VERY common within the metroidvania genre.
Tbh I think the biggest problem is the ease of the spike jump bunny. The bunnys should be all lunatic stuff or not at all. Does no real good to make people think they're actually doable with reasonable puzzles when half are arg-type stuff.
I don't know, I almost think it added something with how ridiculously varied the bunny puzzles were. I got about half of them on my own before looking. Seeing that one involved printing an using an origami guide is hilarious.
The real giveaway though to me at least, is the mural puzzle. The fact that it can't be done at all with less than 50 people really decisively says 'this portion of the game is not for an individual to play, it's for a collective to play'. The creator of this video complaining because the community puzzles were impossible for them as an individual tells me they really just missed the point and wished it was something it's not.
Also... Maybe I'm crazy and have WAY too much coding background, but it seems crazy to me that the binary code seemed impossible to solve. Even if you don't understand binary, all you have to do is try adding the line values. The only reason it's noteworthy that it's binary is because that's one way to make sure all line combinations add to a unique number, and every number has a line combination. That one seemed like the most obvious layer 3 puzzle by far.
Anyway, sorry, haha. I don't really disagree with your comment, I apparently just wanted to rant against the video creator and for some reason did it as a comment reply.
I'm sure that 99% of the people in the comments section defending this game would have the complete and opposite reaction if the game wasn't sponsored by Dunkey
No , we wouldn't.
I literally never heard of Dunkee before this game came out. Not everyone who plays video games lives on the Internet.