Must be a slow news week, Marks has mentioned multiple times he is referring to the aero package. This sport is primed for a huge breakout and I think he just wants to capitalize on it by putting the best product possible out on the track. There are a few rules that could be tweaked to maximize this. Dished wings, Hoosiers new tires and the wicker bills are all small things that play a huge role in making the racing better or worse.
Ok, I’m not done. For a little perspective. For a guy who races his butt off multiple times a week all over the country. For a guy that was in a rough patch. For a new dad that was realizing how much being around his family is great and he misses them, Brent just may have thought racing sucked that night. Honestly, I’d be surprised if all of the drivers didn’t feel the same now and then. Now as a fan who was at Port that night, and was wearing a Brent Marks T shirt, I had a good time. I wish the track would have been better, but it didn’t ruin my night. To us who appreciate what these guys do, it’s always entertaining. People always leave early. I admit I skip the other classes sometimes, but it has more to do with the long drive home. It’s dirt. It’s inconsistent now and then. But if you put 50 sprint cars on it, it’s always fun.
Hes right, Lately 90% of sprint car shows are won from the front row. Dash formats neuter features into a concept where the race is generally over when the green waves. I grew up in an era where the fast guys always started 12th and could win regularly from there.
thats because the changes he's talking about dont really affect short tracks. also helps that series like High Limit are going to more short tracks instead of pounding Williams Grove down our throats like the Outlaws
@@GaryVeesus right and the perpensity of tracks that are reopening or being changed they are becomming shorter so there is more depending on the skill of the driver as opposed to just having a runaway good engine, however based on info from very old videos of sprint racing like the time they raced on the mile tracks like syracuse in the 80's and 90's it was the 3/8ths and 1/2s that are more traditional to the sprint cars, and while there is not as much passing on the 1/2s or bigger without them either paved or dirt you cant have a nascar race or usac silver crown, and there have been many big tracks that have been lost in the last 4 years, this limits where you can see the champ cars and where they can race, I like silver crown of course its not as appreciated today, the races are a bit longer but it harkens back to a type of racing and modern version of the type of openwheel cars that were the very first cars on the fairground tracks in 1903 the early cars were those long cowl coffin and round nosed cars and the coups or run abouts if they were not just custom built, and is just about as much of endurance of the machine as it is knowing how your car is going to react and stratigy but they are still very fast even though unruly as they are bigger then the sprint cars and dont have all the aero of indycar, nascar, or the funky bodies of dirt late models, and while much of it is on the rails there is passing usually and can come down to the wire just like when they did the rich vogler classic at winchester and justin grant passed taylor ferns litteraly at the last 2 seconds before crossing the finishline edging her out of a podium, and how there have been several differant winners this year including the first lady driver to ever win a silvercrown race, kaylee bryson, and mr dakota armstrong winning at least one race and being front row at least 2 times this year, its unpredictable attrition is high with the cars and 100 lap races they do, its underappreciated this day and age but if you know you know, beside that they are a nice crop of people especially the winingest champ car driver all time kody swanson hes the biggest cheerleader for the series, but also watching him drive is like a work of art, and gave me and several fans soo much attention it might have cut into his race prep time. so without the big tracks we dont have this organic sort of pure old style endurance racing.you also have to remember it was for a long time part of the champ car trail and the guys that raced the indy 500 that were household names raced these cars or and earlier version of them, so I kind of like the speed of the larger tracks they get and without at least 1/2 miles we cant have silver crown, but they are more spectacular in wrecks, its harder on equiptment, and more prep time, as well as not as much passing but when there is its even more exciting.
Based off outlaws stats, with 3 good guys racing against a bunch of scrubs usually. Also, why does more different winners translate to good racing. Good racing is what he said, not just “passing”
Personally, I'm sick of this discussion popping up in every racing discipline I get into, because nine times out of ten, fucking with the formula just to drive up entertainment value is the beginning of the end. Sounds to me like some people are complaining that 30 to 45-minute races sometimes have quiet moments where there isn't a ton happening. News flash: that's what happens in a competition. It ebbs and flows. Either you're willing to put up with that, or you should watch something else.
Daily listener here…first of all thank you for covering dirt racing better than I have ever seen it covered consistently! I came here to say that, and to say I loved the numbers comparisons, I know it’s something you can’t be doing daily but more of things like that would be great! Great job regardless Bro…love the show…continued, well deserved success!!!
I can’t figure out what it is about some race fans who seem to think that a person can’t have their own opinion unless they have some kind of specific background.
The problem is that this isn't just a numbers game. It seems the biggest part of his statement that's missing is the part that talks about the entire night of racing. Different race winners, different lap leaders etc doesn't disprove anything he said. Most of the entire night is frankly boring at this point and a ton of features do not actually feature that much close racing. Sure you have your bangers just like with late models (who by the way are also talking about this problem), but honestly most races just aren't that good. He mentions that a lot of people will look at the last 5 laps of a feature and pretend the whole race was good, which is a huge argument that happens after a lot of races. I understand the +/- is higher than the last 2 years, but he's talking about overall racing. It 100% does seem as though guys are getting trapped behind cars more often and being unable to move. A lot of people who actually responded to this also mentioned (me included) that the wicker bill probably didn't change much. Brent didn't seem to mean just this year either. When he talks about "older" packages, he most likely isnt talking about 2-3 years ago but 7-8 years ago or even longer. His overall point is that a lot of racing is the eye test rather than a numbers game. Is it better this year than last year? Well no, I'd say it's around the same, but his point that the races are starting to become more boring night in and out in terms of overall nights, I'd argue is absolutely true as someone who attends weekly racing and watches a ton of both streaming services. Just my opinion though.
lol why interview him when Justin put him in his place with the numbers. The numbers say it all. Bret has been in a Super Bowl hangover since his kings royal. He’s just crying like he always has.
@@DirtTrackRacing410 because Justin is not a troll. Justin didn’t put him in his place, he made a counter point with stats. Ever work for a company where the accounting department doesn’t see the whole picture?
It starts at wheel pack and hot laps… if u are not working to keep the track wide…. U get what u get…as far as technical changes…. Could the move away from dish wings have something to do about it???
I think Brent's comments are being taken out of context by a lot of people. If you read his whole post and analyze everything in totality I believe he's right. But everybody seems to just take a comment or two without putting everything he said together.
Larger attendance doesn't mean the racing is good it just means more people came to see it that night. People just don't stop going to the races after a few bad nights, but they will after a bunch of bad nights. Multiple laps ahead leaders are far more fun to watch than a bunch of cars going a certain speed that could be going a lot faster if it weren't for a rule holding them back.
You need to open the car's up more! They have everything so closed off that's where the arrow tight comes in. Remember loose's Is fast! Let the driver drive the car. Plus I think too many divisions on the track. I get it Owners of tracks need money to but too much racing on the track equals rubbering up.
Perhaps Brent & DIRTRACKR are both right ? The racing (for whatever reason hasn’t great in some events) but the stats shared in this video are not wrong. I think the High Limit shows (on average are really exciting) versus on AVERAGE other weekly local and other sanctioned shows. Lots of things run in cycles. I would say it might take more than 2-3 years of statistics OR ideas to form a solid opinion or analysis. P.S. I admire Brent’s ability to race and DIRTRACKR to offer honest and genuine racing insights.
So many things that needed to be considered in your analogy. 1- Try breaking down the number of passes for position with short tracks verses half miles. Obviously you'll have more passing on shorter tracks which High Limit prefers. Aero is not as important on short tracks vs half miles. 2-With the addition of High Limit it has watered down the competition so there will be more passing which I feel is skewing the numbers. 3-Tires. When I bought a tire it could be 2" bigger or 2" smaller than the advertised size. Hoosier needs to fix that. Maybe some tire competition to give teams a choice?
@@DaltonHerzmann agree, I think that is displayed with the positions gained number. The Outlaw big dogs can have a poor qualifying/heat race and not be as punished this year come the end of the night
Tell me this dude don’t know his racing!!! I think there been tons of good races. A lot of rain this year too canceled a lot of shows. 3 extra mins also!! Good work Justin. Appreciate you!!
The horror! It's a conspiracy! Not that long ago I was in trouble for saying nice things about High Limit because we share the same sponsor. You guys can't decide who I'm carrying water for...
@@DIRTRACKR I didn't say anything about a conspiracy just pointing out your personal bias. I think you truly believe your wrg fanboy talking points trust me
Great job, Justin. Numbers don't lie! Ask Brad Sweet,David Gravel,Anthony Macri, and other drivers with multiple wins if they agree with Brent. As for taking things out of context,Brent made a blanket statement that he offered no explanation for! No driver or team is dominating this year. I think this is good. I believe that the tire situation needs to be addressed, but the one inch wicker bill rule is good. You have to be a better driver to drive a car that isn't locked down to the track. You always will have drivers that complain,but everyone has the same problems to overcome!
One thing is why not much passing the drivers are going so fast it is hard to keep pace let alone pass only the expecional drivers with the car set up can pass other cars
There will always be empty seats, doesn't mean they weren't sold. Some times people buy tickets but for whatever reason can't go and sometimes scalpers get stuck with unsold tickets.
Very impressed by those HL front row winner stats. At times so far this season I found myself questioning the format at times and how the dash wheel would be any different from a normal draw and it seems maybe that it’s actually a factor
I don't feel that the numbers entirely proves he is wrong... he obviously knows what he's talking about and even other racers are echoing the same sentiment... Danny deitrich actually just mentioned the wicker bill thing In a recent interview.. most people weren't and aren't stoked about that rule in any way... data doesn't always convert to what the people who do it day in and out are seeing with their own eyes
I'm an old head, seen a lot of changes in winged racing over the decades. From opperman to kinser to the current crop and the revival of 410 nation wide. The quality of field cross country week in and week out is by far the best it's maybe ever been in the history of sprint car racing. There has been some amazing racing the last couple years. Marks seems to being confusing the quality of racing with his own results.
The 3/8 mile and shorter tracks have been great racing the 1/2 miles honestly or just a snooze fest. I don’t care where it’s at, freight train racing🤷♂️
I believe marks mentioned some frustration about the wickerbill during Pa speedweek? Maybe not that, he was at the port when it was mentioned. So maybe that is what Brent is referring to. I can somewhat see what he is talking about, but then on the flip side you see the sport thriving with the 2nd national series.
Hmm who should we listen too? Fans or reporters who most have never owned or driven a race car. Or a car owner/driver with multiple years experience. Think I will listen to the guy who pays the bills and actually drives a sprint car.
I'll listen to the people actually buying the tickets and giving these guys a place and money to race. It's about entertainment, I'll let those people determine whether they're entertained or not.
That's the world we live in, particularly in the US where most dirt track racing is. Things like math and science can be ignored whenever it benefits you or you feel like being outraged about something, and you can just call anything you don't agree with "fake" or "biased."
I was at haubstadt last weekend going to the 4 crown this weekend and next weekend lucas oil at Brownstown can't say sprint car is bad thanks for your time and show
I feel like some of the 1/2 miles can seem a lot like a crate late race for these sprint cars/tire combos but for the most part the racing has been pretty solid this year imo
I think the sprint car racing this year has been status quo, some really good races, some really bad and a majority right in the middle. Marks has had an off year for himself, not sure how much that weighed into his comments. Being biased because I'm on the West Coast but would like to see more WOO and HL races for West Coast. The teams have a very long tow out here for only a few races, make it more advantageous for the teams. As always, thanks Justin
I’m a Marks fan but I feel like Justin was fair to him in this episode. I also like numbers because thats the facts, not opinions. The facts show that Sprint car racing is doing just about as good or slightly better than it has in recent years. Thanks for all you do for us on this channel.
I’d be interested in talking to the crew guys for their input too. I’d like to know if they have to work harder to get these cars dialed in than in the past. All of this talk makes me nervous that the sport will try to “make it more competitive.” NASCAR has made the blueprint for ruining a series. Everyone else should avoid it.
He has mentioned this aero package issue for months. not just after Port Royal. Including a ton of tweets about it like a week before Port Royal. Port Royal's crappy track prep for the Tusky had nothing to do with this
I haven't looked at the stats, but I would guess that the increased +/- numbers in 2024 is due to the split and more drivers who may not have made main events in the past now making the main and, I would suspect that most of the time that the newbies go backwards on their first several tries with the travelers.
Nah....spots gained does not always equal overtaking on track. Never gonna get full context with bare numbers. Also, Marks first broached this topic after Skagit weekend, when he finished top 5 once and top ten the other 2 nights. So it's pretty obvious to me this is a year long observation, not a knee jerk reaction to one bad track surface at Port Royal.
It’s tough to argue with the stats you have researched to support Mark’s opinion. An opinion to which he is entitled, but I think he may be frustrated with some of his season so far as you have alluded. Thanks for shining a light on this. I am not a fan of unsupported negativity.
Media dude analyzing data and refuting what appears to be a baseless comment by a high-profile driver. Shocking concept for those who can't deal with facts.
So, it does seem like little has changed. Maybe the problem is that the changes being sold to make improvements have created expectations. Expectations of better racing that appear to have fallen short?
Hard to apply statistics this year as High Limit splitting the fields changes everything. That in itself should have made racing less interesting but it feels like the opposite has .
One would think the lead change stat would be a telling stat but not really. Look at the last Lernerville race for example since its recent. Cory Day loses a wheel while leading and goes for a ride. That's a lead change. Marks gets a flat while leading. That's a lead change. That's technically 3 lead changes but were they racing lead changed? I would say no. Therefore that stat is garbage. I'm a fan of stats. Maybe there is a missing undiscovered stat floating in the universe that would tell the whole picture.
The first thing I thought when Brent put his post out was that his statement was written in disappointment for how his year is going, in comparison to previous years. He definitely hasn't been as competitive & has fallen behind a bit, so I think in all honesty he's trying to find an excuse, but unfortunately for excuses, facts don't lie as you pointed out. The racing is on par if not slightly better in most areas, just not for him.
Feature positions is kinda an odd stat. Positions gained could just unreliable cars blowing up or folks crashing out. The stat would be useful for lead lap cars though…
This opinion from the guy who self admittedly doesnt watch the races? I think I'll take the word the guy who sees an entire program every weekend instead
Sorry I disagree a bit, when the track promotion is trying for a new track record in hot laps the track is NOT prepared correctly for what tires and horse power that's out there. One of the best is a track that holds its speed through out the night. In the old days they let the people have an intermission and they didn't TILL the track they graded it.
This guy hit the nail on the head with his comment that hes a FAN and doesnt know what its like to drive or work on one of these. Facts are I have worked on these things and have no interest or desire to attend in person because the racing SUCKS, its oversaturated, PA racing is horible because guys like Brent, Macri, Dietrich get off the porch more than normal lately. You take these three out of the equation and what does PA have, you have the two track wonder and you cant even call him that because hes just not that anymore 8E/51. Wagaman is the most consistent driver in PA weekly along with Dietrich, Macri is out getting better on the road because look what he does when he comes home...ie best car bar none when at home in PA. Promoting is dead in PA, Williams Grove speaks for itself in no promotion, Lincoln is a joke with reduced crowds visible every night and Flo hasnt hutt their attendance the promotor has. These are the things Brent is speaking of. Im in agreement the racing is horribly boring.
from a spectator stand point i think sprint car racing is great, with good story lines to follow, the young hot shot Corey Day out dueling veterans of the sport, and the on track product is no slouch either lots of good races, i think brents comments are coming more or less out of frustrations on a down year for him.
Another thing that everyone needs to think about is Outlaws had some great teams leave for High Limit which left them more top heavy. High Limit has a deeper roster and I feel the numbers between High Limit and the Outlaws prove this.
Mr Justin I could not agree with you more about marks been to alot of sprint shows this year and all have mostly been very well with good fan turn outs I do not see the sport falling I actually see I gaining more attention have noticed alot of first timers as fans to races and that's always a plus to any track and the sport in general
This is the problem with the demographic of the sport. They are in total denial and tend to skew data with bias without total context of appropriate analysis. The rules across the board in all devisions among all disciplines of the sport has caused a bad racing product. That’s just a fact visible to anyone who’s familiar with the sport over decades. The stats used in this video are fairly irrelevant to the context. Pass numbers don’t quantify the racing product due to multiple variables. Dans with leader changes. This is the systemic Dangers associated with analysis of analytics. When facts are facts but human nature applies them incorrectly. I can break down in great detail while each state is irrelevant but that’s not my job, plus it only requires minimal rational thought and common sense. Regular fans and those whom love sport tend to struggle the most with awareness to the product we see. They are the sports worst enemy. They often try cite big shows as evidence to the sports stability which is completely and entirely irrelevant and down right foolish. Agin they are failing to appropriately evaluate the reasons for this in its entirety while also being hyper fixated on prestigious events that compute to the overall well being of the industry. It doesn’t matter if Eldora had the largest number of fans in history at a crown jewel event. Infact, the problems associated with the sports organic state helps to contribute to these very numbers. Agin it’s common sense. Leader change stats are entirely irrelevant to the narrative of passing and race ability through the field. That’s an entirely different animal. Run it back a few rows and the air gets more filthy, it gets harder to seek clean air, and field restrictions make it more difficult to run the lanes required of the track surface. Once your in the top 3 and spread out it becomes drastically more easy to run down a leader then pass for 12th. Plus there’s the countless variables that allow for the lead change numbers like hoping the cushion, etc. those variables also effect the stats on passing. There’s so many variables in this sport that make those numbers convoluted. But they don’t necessarily validate the false notion that everything is “great” with the sport. It’s like climate change deniers whom are unable to walk outside their home and feel how different the climate and weather is from 20 years ago. Standing in the freak grass in the North East on Christmas morning in shorts. Part of its due to short term memory, some is associated with cognitive dissonance and the other is a result of biased delusions that segregate one drone reality. I hear this argument that shows like Lucas oil primer events demonstrate the sports health who’s tracks that once garnished 45+ late models a night only field 9 and others are now growing grass where it was once beautiful raw clay. This argument that things are good on all areas of the sport are exactly why we lose so many tracks across the nation. Those people in denial are a contributing factor. The are part of the problem. Same thing goes for safety in sprint cars, same thing for the cost of the sport. Same thing for the obvious lack of marketing in the industry. Agin it’s really sad.
I agree with Marks on the quality of racing being down. I especially notice how hard it is for the race leader to get around lap cars without the extra downforce. The race gets bottled up an awful lot. I remember leaders be able to put away lap cars regardless of if it's a 2 groove track or not. Jmho
So you agree that he is wrong? Justin has the numbers, there is more passing and less front row wins. Brent thought he was the shit after winning kings royal and ever since he’s had a Super Bowl hangover and crying everyday.
just cause theres people in the stands doesnt mean the racing was great. and your looking at 2 major series with the best equipment and driver/crews. if you go beyond that winged sprint car racing isnt great, just like the center steer modifieds. the cars are to aero dependent, and easier too drive now, plus everyone has the same stuff. wingless cars are alot better to watch, they at least can race.
Of course it's worse now than it ever was because it cost more to do it now than it ever has and there's more government in racing now than there ever has been which also drives the cost up.
The problem with hoosier is they have a contract with every series in the country and most of them require hoosier rrs etc which doesnt allow for competitive prices. American racer and others are going obsolete because of it.
You can't blame the track prep yeah it sucked, but the tire package is killing all forms of racing, I have been around alot longer than you all have been around, after all the other sports went woke, I returned to my roots, being from Reading,Pa. You had no choice but to become a racing nut after all we raced 3 days every week, but bad management ran it into the ground, there's alot of truth behind Brett's comments after all he's from the racing capital of the world.
worst racing at Knoxville and big tracks than i can ever remember. the bull rings vs half mile comparison would be interesting. And no, eldora is not a half mile!
Freddie rahmer jr one a few track championships and a few years and daddy raise for 30 years and one 85 races at the Williams Grove Speedway and he wrenches the car they can’t even get it to go sprint raising is very sad
Really all racing is bad at times. 1/2 miles especially. Aero has gotten out of hand. I think to make racing better is take aero out. I think what would help is lowering costs so more teams will be competitive.
He created a illusion without really showing you the real meat and potatoes instead he went with the bread and salad. It sounded like a wrg representative not a reporter/racefan
Who knew that me saying I thought sprint car racing was "pretty good" right now would be one of my most controversial takes of the year...
BUT WE WANNA BE MAD ONLINE! YOUR THE MEDIUHHHH!!!1!!
You definitely brought the real numbers. Great work!
Must be a slow news week, Marks has mentioned multiple times he is referring to the aero package. This sport is primed for a huge breakout and I think he just wants to capitalize on it by putting the best product possible out on the track. There are a few rules that could be tweaked to maximize this. Dished wings, Hoosiers new tires and the wicker bills are all small things that play a huge role in making the racing better or worse.
Ok, I’m not done. For a little perspective. For a guy who races his butt off multiple times a week all over the country. For a guy that was in a rough patch. For a new dad that was realizing how much being around his family is great and he misses them, Brent just may have thought racing sucked that night. Honestly, I’d be surprised if all of the drivers didn’t feel the same now and then. Now as a fan who was at Port that night, and was wearing a Brent Marks T shirt, I had a good time. I wish the track would have been better, but it didn’t ruin my night. To us who appreciate what these guys do, it’s always entertaining. People always leave early. I admit I skip the other classes sometimes, but it has more to do with the long drive home. It’s dirt. It’s inconsistent now and then. But if you put 50 sprint cars on it, it’s always fun.
Get Brent on for an interview and have a good debate!
Not a bad idea.
That would be quality content
Hes right, Lately 90% of sprint car shows are won from the front row. Dash formats neuter features into a concept where the race is generally over when the green waves. I grew up in an era where the fast guys always started 12th and could win regularly from there.
On the half miles it's not great, way too areo dependent. However on smaller tracks I think the racing is better than ever
@@MmTGaming7 it certainly can be if the bullring is close with track prep.
thats because the changes he's talking about dont really affect short tracks. also helps that series like High Limit are going to more short tracks instead of pounding Williams Grove down our throats like the Outlaws
@@GaryVeesus right and the perpensity of tracks that are reopening or being changed they are becomming shorter so there is more depending on the skill of the driver as opposed to just having a runaway good engine, however based on info from very old videos of sprint racing like the time they raced on the mile tracks like syracuse in the 80's and 90's it was the 3/8ths and 1/2s that are more traditional to the sprint cars, and while there is not as much passing on the 1/2s or bigger without them either paved or dirt you cant have a nascar race or usac silver crown, and there have been many big tracks that have been lost in the last 4 years, this limits where you can see the champ cars and where they can race, I like silver crown of course its not as appreciated today, the races are a bit longer but it harkens back to a type of racing and modern version of the type of openwheel cars that were the very first cars on the fairground tracks in 1903 the early cars were those long cowl coffin and round nosed cars and the coups or run abouts if they were not just custom built, and is just about as much of endurance of the machine as it is knowing how your car is going to react and stratigy but they are still very fast even though unruly as they are bigger then the sprint cars and dont have all the aero of indycar, nascar, or the funky bodies of dirt late models, and while much of it is on the rails there is passing usually and can come down to the wire just like when they did the rich vogler classic at winchester and justin grant passed taylor ferns litteraly at the last 2 seconds before crossing the finishline edging her out of a podium, and how there have been several differant winners this year including the first lady driver to ever win a silvercrown race, kaylee bryson, and mr dakota armstrong winning at least one race and being front row at least 2 times this year, its unpredictable attrition is high with the cars and 100 lap races they do, its underappreciated this day and age but if you know you know, beside that they are a nice crop of people especially the winingest champ car driver all time kody swanson hes the biggest cheerleader for the series, but also watching him drive is like a work of art, and gave me and several fans soo much attention it might have cut into his race prep time.
so without the big tracks we dont have this organic sort of pure old style endurance racing.you also have to remember it was for a long time part of the champ car trail and the guys that raced the indy 500 that were household names raced these cars or and earlier version of them, so I kind of like the speed of the larger tracks they get and without at least 1/2 miles we cant have silver crown, but they are more spectacular in wrecks, its harder on equiptment, and more prep time, as well as not as much passing but when there is its even more exciting.
Based off outlaws stats, with 3 good guys racing against a bunch of scrubs usually. Also, why does more different winners translate to good racing. Good racing is what he said, not just “passing”
@@MmTGaming7 For half miles inversion works fine at the Knoxville Nationals, the cream has risen to the top for decades.
Personally, I'm sick of this discussion popping up in every racing discipline I get into, because nine times out of ten, fucking with the formula just to drive up entertainment value is the beginning of the end. Sounds to me like some people are complaining that 30 to 45-minute races sometimes have quiet moments where there isn't a ton happening.
News flash: that's what happens in a competition. It ebbs and flows. Either you're willing to put up with that, or you should watch something else.
Daily listener here…first of all thank you for covering dirt racing better than I have ever seen it covered consistently!
I came here to say that, and to say I loved the numbers comparisons, I know it’s something you can’t be doing daily but more of things like that would be great!
Great job regardless Bro…love the show…continued, well deserved success!!!
I can’t figure out what it is about some race fans who seem to think that a person can’t have their own opinion unless they have some kind of specific background.
The problem is that this isn't just a numbers game. It seems the biggest part of his statement that's missing is the part that talks about the entire night of racing. Different race winners, different lap leaders etc doesn't disprove anything he said. Most of the entire night is frankly boring at this point and a ton of features do not actually feature that much close racing. Sure you have your bangers just like with late models (who by the way are also talking about this problem), but honestly most races just aren't that good. He mentions that a lot of people will look at the last 5 laps of a feature and pretend the whole race was good, which is a huge argument that happens after a lot of races.
I understand the +/- is higher than the last 2 years, but he's talking about overall racing. It 100% does seem as though guys are getting trapped behind cars more often and being unable to move. A lot of people who actually responded to this also mentioned (me included) that the wicker bill probably didn't change much. Brent didn't seem to mean just this year either. When he talks about "older" packages, he most likely isnt talking about 2-3 years ago but 7-8 years ago or even longer.
His overall point is that a lot of racing is the eye test rather than a numbers game. Is it better this year than last year? Well no, I'd say it's around the same, but his point that the races are starting to become more boring night in and out in terms of overall nights, I'd argue is absolutely true as someone who attends weekly racing and watches a ton of both streaming services. Just my opinion though.
well said
So, interview Brent. I’m not exactly a fan, but he’s not a dumb guy. I’m sure he has a technical perspective.
lol why interview him when Justin put him in his place with the numbers. The numbers say it all. Bret has been in a Super Bowl hangover since his kings royal. He’s just crying like he always has.
@@DirtTrackRacing410 The numbers don't really have anything to do with what Brent was really talking about but ok lol.
@@DirtTrackRacing410 No, Justin needs to interview him, the numbers don't say it all.
@@DirtTrackRacing410 because Justin is not a troll. Justin didn’t put him in his place, he made a counter point with stats. Ever work for a company where the accounting department doesn’t see the whole picture?
It starts at wheel pack and hot laps… if u are not working to keep the track wide…. U get what u get…as far as technical changes…. Could the move away from dish wings have something to do about it???
I think Brent's comments are being taken out of context by a lot of people. If you read his whole post and analyze everything in totality I believe he's right. But everybody seems to just take a comment or two without putting everything he said together.
typical media
How much skin does this guy have in the game...... Brent has been doing this for more than a decade....
Explain what's been "taken out of context?"
@@DIRTRACKR you were directly trying to contradict his statements with some goofy numbers.
That's not taking things out of context. I was refuting what he said with data.
Larger attendance doesn't mean the racing is good it just means more people came to see it that night. People just don't stop going to the races after a few bad nights, but they will after a bunch of bad nights. Multiple laps ahead leaders are far more fun to watch than a bunch of cars going a certain speed that could be going a lot faster if it weren't for a rule holding them back.
Adding dished top wings to that list of rules that were changed.
You need to open the car's up more! They have everything so closed off that's where the arrow tight comes in. Remember loose's Is fast! Let the driver drive the car. Plus I think too many divisions on the track. I get it Owners of tracks need money to but too much racing on the track equals rubbering up.
Congrats on 35K! 💪
Perhaps Brent & DIRTRACKR are both right ?
The racing (for whatever reason hasn’t great in some events) but the stats shared in this video are not wrong.
I think the High Limit shows (on average are really exciting) versus on AVERAGE other weekly local and other sanctioned shows. Lots of things run in cycles. I would say it might take more than 2-3 years of statistics OR ideas to form a solid opinion or analysis.
P.S. I admire Brent’s ability to race and DIRTRACKR to offer honest and genuine racing insights.
So many things that needed to be considered in your analogy. 1- Try breaking down the number of passes for position with short tracks verses half miles. Obviously you'll have more passing on shorter tracks which High Limit prefers. Aero is not as important on short tracks vs half miles. 2-With the addition of High Limit it has watered down the competition so there will be more passing which I feel is skewing the numbers. 3-Tires. When I bought a tire it could be 2" bigger or 2" smaller than the advertised size. Hoosier needs to fix that. Maybe some tire competition to give teams a choice?
Feel like a reason HL has different numbers are due to them running more shorter tracks while the Outlaws run more big tracks
There's also more parity in the field on a typical high limit night
Fair assessment. Half-mile races are largely boring AF. Give me a bullring over a half mile every time.
@@DaltonHerzmann agree, I think that is displayed with the positions gained number. The Outlaw big dogs can have a poor qualifying/heat race and not be as punished this year come the end of the night
What, where ,and when. All I have seen was HL running half miles.. I am confused on your comment..
I think the backwards move is watering down the quality having High Limit.
Tell me this dude don’t know his racing!!! I think there been tons of good races. A lot of rain this year too canceled a lot of shows. 3 extra mins also!! Good work Justin. Appreciate you!!
He knows his numbers
This guy has lots of opinions about anyone affiliated with floracing. WRG, never a negative word.
Yep. Impending deletion of this comment for "trolling" coming.
The horror! It's a conspiracy! Not that long ago I was in trouble for saying nice things about High Limit because we share the same sponsor. You guys can't decide who I'm carrying water for...
@DIRTRACKR everyone sees the wrg bias dude. Please just stop.
@@DIRTRACKR I didn't say anything about a conspiracy just pointing out your personal bias. I think you truly believe your wrg fanboy talking points trust me
@@DIRTRACKRwhen you scream "conspiracy theorist" that just alienates people and makes some people more suspicious, just a heads up
Great job, Justin. Numbers don't lie! Ask Brad Sweet,David Gravel,Anthony Macri, and other drivers with multiple wins if they agree with Brent. As for taking things out of context,Brent made a blanket statement that he offered no explanation for! No driver or team is dominating this year. I think this is good. I believe that the tire situation needs to be addressed, but the one inch wicker bill rule is good. You have to be a better driver to drive a car that isn't locked down to the track. You always will have drivers that complain,but everyone has the same problems to overcome!
One thing is why not much passing the drivers are going so fast it is hard to keep pace let alone pass only the expecional drivers with the car set up can pass other cars
Knoxville Nationals was not 'packed.' There were multiple seats of rows empty in my section on Saturday Night.
There will always be empty seats, doesn't mean they weren't sold. Some times people buy tickets but for whatever reason can't go and sometimes scalpers get stuck with unsold tickets.
It was 99% full
Very impressed by those HL front row winner stats. At times so far this season I found myself questioning the format at times and how the dash wheel would be any different from a normal draw and it seems maybe that it’s actually a factor
It would be interesting to see the same numbers for dirt late models and compare the results between the 2 classes.
That 19 team will take this personal.. back to that show from the other week.
Smells familiar. i remember someone else that fell pretty quick after some criticism of a famous driver. LOL
Great analytical review of the current environment using data Justin. Well done.
I don't feel that the numbers entirely proves he is wrong... he obviously knows what he's talking about and even other racers are echoing the same sentiment... Danny deitrich actually just mentioned the wicker bill thing In a recent interview.. most people weren't and aren't stoked about that rule in any way... data doesn't always convert to what the people who do it day in and out are seeing with their own eyes
Great comments mate, love the show
I'm an old head, seen a lot of changes in winged racing over the decades. From opperman to kinser to the current crop and the revival of 410 nation wide. The quality of field cross country week in and week out is by far the best it's maybe ever been in the history of sprint car racing. There has been some amazing racing the last couple years. Marks seems to being confusing the quality of racing with his own results.
I’m loving the racing. Even the bad nights are still great. Sometimes the main event isnt the best race of the night and that’s ok.
Thank You for the discussion. Right or wrong you got the discussion moving..
I agree with Marks...Its like watching a train going around the track. just my opinion
Only at Williams Grove
You clearly don't watch any High Limit races.
Definitely some truth to that . Not always but more often than I like 👍
The 3/8 mile and shorter tracks have been great racing the 1/2 miles honestly or just a snooze fest. I don’t care where it’s at, freight train racing🤷♂️
@@beaunicholls8856 sleeping on port they botched the track at the tusky 50 also selinsgrove has. Good racing but track owner right now is a nightmare
I believe marks mentioned some frustration about the wickerbill during Pa speedweek? Maybe not that, he was at the port when it was mentioned. So maybe that is what Brent is referring to. I can somewhat see what he is talking about, but then on the flip side you see the sport thriving with the 2nd national series.
Hmm who should we listen too?
Fans or reporters who most have never owned or driven a race car.
Or a car owner/driver with multiple years experience.
Think I will listen to the guy who pays the bills and actually drives a sprint car.
I'll listen to the people actually buying the tickets and giving these guys a place and money to race. It's about entertainment, I'll let those people determine whether they're entertained or not.
Obviously he’s feeling what he feels and that you can’t argue with .
@jasonorth954 oh so you buying a ticket gives them a place to race. I thought the tracks did that.
To be accurate, there would have to be a consensus among a number of drivers. Coming from one driver, it's just an anecdotal opinion.
@@AK-zw1re How are the tracks gonna exist without FANS filling the stands? Good lord, how stupid are you?
Lol how yall gonna attack a guy for proposing accurate numbers and backing up a statement with evidence .
That's the world we live in, particularly in the US where most dirt track racing is. Things like math and science can be ignored whenever it benefits you or you feel like being outraged about something, and you can just call anything you don't agree with "fake" or "biased."
I was at haubstadt last weekend going to the 4 crown this weekend and next weekend lucas oil at Brownstown can't say sprint car is bad thanks for your time and show
i been around sprintcar racing since i was 2 its my fave open wheel dirt tracing
I feel like some of the 1/2 miles can seem a lot like a crate late race for these sprint cars/tire combos but for the most part the racing has been pretty solid this year imo
Chaz level pot stirring here bud nice job 😂 anything for those clicks right?
I think the sprint car racing this year has been status quo, some really good races, some really bad and a majority right in the middle. Marks has had an off year for himself, not sure how much that weighed into his comments.
Being biased because I'm on the West Coast but would like to see more WOO and HL races for West Coast. The teams have a very long tow out here for only a few races, make it more advantageous for the teams.
As always, thanks Justin
When I think of what kind of season Brent Marks has had and listening to Justin show the stats, it points to parity to me.
I think both races on Ironman weekend were the best races I’ve seen all year of any discipline. If that’s not entertainment I don’t know what is
Most of the racing I’ve seen has been really good. There haven’t been many races that have been boring at all.
Its God awful on 1/2 miles. Bullrings are saving it.
Nice job. You spent a lot of time getting all that information together.
I’m a Marks fan but I feel like Justin was fair to him in this episode. I also like numbers because thats the facts, not opinions. The facts show that Sprint car racing is doing just about as good or slightly better than it has in recent years. Thanks for all you do for us on this channel.
I’d be interested in talking to the crew guys for their input too. I’d like to know if they have to work harder to get these cars dialed in than in the past. All of this talk makes me nervous that the sport will try to “make it more competitive.” NASCAR has made the blueprint for ruining a series. Everyone else should avoid it.
I believe that’s called a Dutch auction
Go nonwing racing lots of passing
He has mentioned this aero package issue for months. not just after Port Royal. Including a ton of tweets about it like a week before Port Royal. Port Royal's crappy track prep for the Tusky had nothing to do with this
I haven't looked at the stats, but I would guess that the increased +/- numbers in 2024 is due to the split and more drivers who may not have made main events in the past now making the main and, I would suspect that most of the time that the newbies go backwards on their first several tries with the travelers.
Nah....spots gained does not always equal overtaking on track. Never gonna get full context with bare numbers.
Also, Marks first broached this topic after Skagit weekend, when he finished top 5 once and top ten the other 2 nights. So it's pretty obvious to me this is a year long observation, not a knee jerk reaction to one bad track surface at Port Royal.
Marks has rough season on the road, takes to internet to whine. More at 11. 🙄
It’s tough to argue with the stats you have researched to support Mark’s opinion. An opinion to which he is entitled, but I think he may be frustrated with some of his season so far as you have alluded. Thanks for shining a light on this. I am not a fan of unsupported negativity.
Media dude trying to make himself the story gotta love it
Oh no, somebody disagrees with a race car driver! How dare they!
Media dude analyzing data and refuting what appears to be a baseless comment by a high-profile driver. Shocking concept for those who can't deal with facts.
He had numbers to support his claims
I’ve seen more passing this year than the prior two season’s combined
as far as passing sprint car racing in the last ten years is the best it s ever been.
Great show
Invert features in outlaws by a draw after the redraw same with high limit
Way to do the research . Don't want to debate you . Great show .
So, it does seem like little has changed. Maybe the problem is that the changes being sold to make improvements have created expectations. Expectations of better racing that appear to have fallen short?
RIP in Peace ASCoC
Hard to apply statistics this year as High Limit splitting the fields changes everything. That in itself should have made racing less interesting but it feels like the opposite has .
One would think the lead change stat would be a telling stat but not really. Look at the last Lernerville race for example since its recent. Cory Day loses a wheel while leading and goes for a ride. That's a lead change. Marks gets a flat while leading. That's a lead change. That's technically 3 lead changes but were they racing lead changed? I would say no. Therefore that stat is garbage. I'm a fan of stats. Maybe there is a missing undiscovered stat floating in the universe that would tell the whole picture.
The first thing I thought when Brent put his post out was that his statement was written in disappointment for how his year is going, in comparison to previous years. He definitely hasn't been as competitive & has fallen behind a bit, so I think in all honesty he's trying to find an excuse, but unfortunately for excuses, facts don't lie as you pointed out. The racing is on par if not slightly better in most areas, just not for him.
Feature positions is kinda an odd stat. Positions gained could just unreliable cars blowing up or folks crashing out. The stat would be useful for lead lap cars though…
This opinion from the guy who self admittedly doesnt watch the races?
I think I'll take the word the guy who sees an entire program every weekend instead
You must not listen well.
Sorry I disagree a bit, when the track promotion is trying for a new track record in hot laps the track is NOT prepared correctly for what tires and horse power that's out there. One of the best is a track that holds its speed through out the night. In the old days they let the people have an intermission and they didn't TILL the track they graded it.
There finally paying a fair amount of purse money.
This guy hit the nail on the head with his comment that hes a FAN and doesnt know what its like to drive or work on one of these. Facts are I have worked on these things and have no interest or desire to attend in person because the racing SUCKS, its oversaturated, PA racing is horible because guys like Brent, Macri, Dietrich get off the porch more than normal lately. You take these three out of the equation and what does PA have, you have the two track wonder and you cant even call him that because hes just not that anymore 8E/51. Wagaman is the most consistent driver in PA weekly along with Dietrich, Macri is out getting better on the road because look what he does when he comes home...ie best car bar none when at home in PA. Promoting is dead in PA, Williams Grove speaks for itself in no promotion, Lincoln is a joke with reduced crowds visible every night and Flo hasnt hutt their attendance the promotor has. These are the things Brent is speaking of. Im in agreement the racing is horribly boring.
from a spectator stand point i think sprint car racing is great, with good story lines to follow, the young hot shot Corey Day out dueling veterans of the sport, and the on track product is no slouch either lots of good races, i think brents comments are coming more or less out of frustrations on a down year for him.
Another thing that everyone needs to think about is Outlaws had some great teams leave for High Limit which left them more top heavy. High Limit has a deeper roster and I feel the numbers between High Limit and the Outlaws prove this.
Sprint car racing is the best form of racing in America right now. I think people just like to complain, and don't like rule changes.
Is there anyone in the top 10 of either late model series besides T- Mac running a Rocket right now
Owens.
@@DIRTRACKR ok 2 out 20 hmmm so T- Mac is a lesser DRIVER???
Who said he's a lesser driver?
Your comments he may lose his ride poor performance early in the year not covenants it is the nut behind the wheel it may be the 4 wheels in under him
Guess I'm missing all the races where the pole doesn't win.
Mr Justin I could not agree with you more about marks been to alot of sprint shows this year and all have mostly been very well with good fan turn outs I do not see the sport falling I actually see I gaining more attention have noticed alot of first timers as fans to races and that's always a plus to any track and the sport in general
This is the problem with the demographic of the sport. They are in total denial and tend to skew data with bias without total context of appropriate analysis. The rules across the board in all devisions among all disciplines of the sport has caused a bad racing product. That’s just a fact visible to anyone who’s familiar with the sport over decades. The stats used in this video are fairly irrelevant to the context. Pass numbers don’t quantify the racing product due to multiple variables. Dans with leader changes. This is the systemic Dangers associated with analysis of analytics. When facts are facts but human nature applies them incorrectly. I can break down in great detail while each state is irrelevant but that’s not my job, plus it only requires minimal rational thought and common sense. Regular fans and those whom love sport tend to struggle the most with awareness to the product we see. They are the sports worst enemy. They often try cite big shows as evidence to the sports stability which is completely and entirely irrelevant and down right foolish. Agin they are failing to appropriately evaluate the reasons for this in its entirety while also being hyper fixated on prestigious events that compute to the overall well being of the industry. It doesn’t matter if Eldora had the largest number of fans in history at a crown jewel event. Infact, the problems associated with the sports organic state helps to contribute to these very numbers. Agin it’s common sense.
Leader change stats are entirely irrelevant to the narrative of passing and race ability through the field. That’s an entirely different animal. Run it back a few rows and the air gets more filthy, it gets harder to seek clean air, and field restrictions make it more difficult to run the lanes required of the track surface. Once your in the top 3 and spread out it becomes drastically more easy to run down a leader then pass for 12th. Plus there’s the countless variables that allow for the lead change numbers like hoping the cushion, etc. those variables also effect the stats on passing. There’s so many variables in this sport that make those numbers convoluted. But they don’t necessarily validate the false notion that everything is “great” with the sport. It’s like climate change deniers whom are unable to walk outside their home and feel how different the climate and weather is from 20 years ago. Standing in the freak grass in the North East on Christmas morning in shorts. Part of its due to short term memory, some is associated with cognitive dissonance and the other is a result of biased delusions that segregate one drone reality. I hear this argument that shows like Lucas oil primer events demonstrate the sports health who’s tracks that once garnished 45+ late models a night only field 9 and others are now growing grass where it was once beautiful raw clay. This argument that things are good on all areas of the sport are exactly why we lose so many tracks across the nation. Those people in denial are a contributing factor. The are part of the problem. Same thing goes for safety in sprint cars, same thing for the cost of the sport. Same thing for the obvious lack of marketing in the industry. Agin it’s really sad.
I agree with Marks on the quality of racing being down. I especially notice how hard it is for the race leader to get around lap cars without the extra downforce. The race gets bottled up an awful lot. I remember leaders be able to put away lap cars regardless of if it's a 2 groove track or not. Jmho
So you agree that he is wrong? Justin has the numbers, there is more passing and less front row wins. Brent thought he was the shit after winning kings royal and ever since he’s had a Super Bowl hangover and crying everyday.
stats have there own opinions
The tracks change the same for everyone...
You the man thanks for the day
just cause theres people in the stands doesnt mean the racing was great. and your looking at 2 major series with the best equipment and driver/crews. if you go beyond that winged sprint car racing isnt great, just like the center steer modifieds. the cars are to aero dependent, and easier too drive now, plus everyone has the same stuff. wingless cars are alot better to watch, they at least can race.
Tell me this dude don’t know his racing!!! I think there been tons of good races. A lot of rain this year too canceled a lot of shows.
Of course it's worse now than it ever was because it cost more to do it now than it ever has and there's more government in racing now than there ever has been which also drives the cost up.
My son, a long time Hoosier employee, and I thing the racing is better since the new Hoosier tire was introduced
The problem with hoosier is they have a contract with every series in the country and most of them require hoosier rrs etc which doesnt allow for competitive prices. American racer and others are going obsolete because of it.
Couldn’t disagree more unfortunately, these tires are absolutely awful
I want to see open tire rules
Open tire rules are a thing of past
Spec tires make racing cheaper, The sanctioning bodies are the that make the tire rules
You can't blame the track prep yeah it sucked, but the tire package is killing all forms of racing, I have been around alot longer than you all have been around, after all the other sports went woke, I returned to my roots, being from Reading,Pa. You had no choice but to become a racing nut after all we raced 3 days every week, but bad management ran it into the ground, there's alot of truth behind Brett's comments after all he's from the racing capital of the world.
worst racing at Knoxville and big tracks than i can ever remember. the bull rings vs half mile comparison would be interesting. And no, eldora is not a half mile!
This is becoming the CNN of dirt track racing. None of these opinions are news. You can have any opinion you want just expect pushback
A low-information voter has chimed in to share that facts and data trigger him.
Maybe he’s upset and making excuses because he hasn’t been running well for a couple years now.
Maybe people who took Brent’s words out of context and just soft
Freddie rahmer jr one a few track championships and a few years and daddy raise for 30 years and one 85 races at the Williams Grove Speedway and he wrenches the car they can’t even get it to go sprint raising is very sad
Brent must of had couple extra adult beverages and hasn’t done that great!!!!
Some of the worst takes in the history of this channel are in these comments smh
Really all racing is bad at times. 1/2 miles especially. Aero has gotten out of hand. I think to make racing better is take aero out. I think what would help is lowering costs so more teams will be competitive.
I like most when you break out the statistics to make your point! Let the numbers do the talking! Great show!
He created a illusion without really showing you the real meat and potatoes instead he went with the bread and salad. It sounded like a wrg representative not a reporter/racefan