Digitrax AR1 Auto Reversers. Tips and setup tricks.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- For an old Model Railroader like me, one of the biggest advances that DCC has given the hobby, is the ability to run a train on any track in any direction! Prior to this, changing lines would often require a multitude of switches and complicated wiring, and reversing loops were a nightmare, especially if you wanted the train to keep running through the loop !! Now , it's as easy as installing a Auto reverser, a few insulated fishplates and off you go! But before you rush into wiring your reverser, here are a few tips to help you get trouble free performance and prevent any issues down the track. We're going into class so I expect your best behavior and full attention..LOL
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So glad you took the time to explain this, and shot it the way that you did. It was incredibly helpful and enjoyable.
+Jeffrey Bisti Thanks Jeffrey, glad you liked it and got the info you needed!
Cheers Gregg.
Excellent video explanation of the AR-1. I thoroughly enjoyed the video. Keep the chapters coming.
Hi Gregg, Just a quick note to tell you how much I enjoy your videos. Entertaining and informative. I have been modeling in HO since the early 60's, and built 6 layouts as an adult, but still find I always learn something new.
Paul
Thanks very much Paul! I'm sure you've seen a huge change in the hobby over those years! After 6 layouts you'd be an expert by now , but as you say, you're never too old to learn something. Than you for watching and the support.
Cheers Gregg
Great information, I enjoy watching your videos and plan on using what I have learned on my layout. Keep up the great videos.
Thanks Scott, glad you enjoy watching the videos! Just remember the "6P's" and you can't go wrong! Tahnk you for the support.
Cheers Gregg
Plain English,that's what it's all about.
Loved it,thanks Gregit was a nice to watch after an afternoon running the garden railway.
Happy Rails.
Jon.
Thanks Jon! I keep it simple so I can understand it also..LOL
Gregg:-)
Thanks for this great video. Me and my dad are having shorting problems and think it's due to the fact we are making it way to complicated. We where trying to revers all the track instead of just the loop. This helps a lot.
Your welcome! Try and keep it as simple as possible, and remember to keep trains shorter than the reverse section!
Cheers Gregg
so Gregg, very helpful and interesting ! and another incredible intertaining Video ! Thank you so much for amazing 24minutes of film ! the idea with the class room ... I am speechless .... you are the BEST, Gregg ! also fantastic Atlas, Kato, IMR Models ! I can't wait for the next video ! Happy funny eastern Sir Gregg !
Thank you so much my friend!! I try to make it interesting and fun , so you remember more..LOL. Of course we love our 3 top model makes and I watch your part 6 today and hear some beauty SD40-2's... I am jealous of the sound. I may have to put two speakers in mine ahahahaarrraaahhh.. Next video on even better speed settings coming in two days! Thanks for your support Matthew.!
Cheers Gregg
FishplateFilms
I will take a look !
Professor Gregg !! RT reporting for class sir! LOL! You are a genius when it comes to explaining things through good humor. Great video! Can't wait for the next one. Cheers RT :-)
LOL, Good to have you in the class RT' Thanks for attending and I appreciate the kind words! Professor..??? ....LOL I wish.!
Cheers Gregg
As usual your schooling has helped me again. thank you very much.
Good to hear Mark! Glad you got some tips from my raving on..LOL
Gregg :-)
Fantastic work Gregg, very informative
Thanks Phixer64! Appreciate the comment.
Cheers Gregg
Good info and very well explained! Love watching your videos, you are very entertaining!
Deryk
Thanks Deryk, glad you liked it! I think a little fun helps break the boredom..LOL
Cheers Gregg
Good to know Arthur is the cause of our bit cooler weather we are having LOL ,Thanks for the great tips on the auto reversers
Hope you having good Easter break Gregg
Cheers Glynn
Yes Glynn, but he's only sending a sample..LOL. Glad you enjoyed the clip, I'm actually laying track this weekend !. I'm building a tempoary yard on the top level so I can pass trains and get some loco's out of West Birdwood yard. Maybe a run on sunday ?? Hope you have a good one as well, I'll let you know how I go.
Cheers Gregg
Another great video. Thanks
Great video always informative
I like your scenery! The info on the auto reverser was great
Thanks Neil!, yes scenery is my best skill..LOL
Really helpful for those of us who are not "sparkys", as the trades guys say up here in Canada. Thanks for sharing Gregg!
Thanks Ben!, we call ourselves sparky's down here as well! Glad you liked it mate.
Cheers Gregg
Hi Gregg,
I've got a couple more questions as I begin to run the bus for my first reverse loop.
1. The short section right after the turnout that runs on the mainline track bus, how long did you make it? Does it matter?
2. By running a feeder from the beginning of each side of the loop to the AR1, does that not create a closed loop of feeders? I've read that it should be avoided if possible as it can create problems with the DCC signal. Have you had any problems with this?
My reverse loops are 25' (7.62 m).
Thanks in advance!
Ben
Thank you very much that was exactly what I needed now I can put in my reverse loop and wire it and actually understand what is going on.
Your welcome! It does help to know how things work! Enjoy your loop!
Cheers Gregg
I hate building something and doing it a certain way just cause the instructions say to I wana know why I have to and how it works or it drives me nuts. I wish more ppl like you would share stuff like this your a great ambassador of model rail roading keep up the superb work
Maj Evans Thanks Maj' I appreciate the kind comments. There's lots more to come.
Cheers Gregg
not only helpful but full for good humour. loved it :D
+TheKoups Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Gregg.
I almost didn't learn anything from all the laughing I did.... almost :P
Very Entertaining and helpful!
Fantastic vid Gregg. Great explanations.
Dan
Thanks Dan, glad you liked it mate!
Cheers Gregg
Just saw your video today. Great explanation!
Thanks Chris! I'm glad you got some info from the video.
Cheers Gregg.
Gregg, great video. A lot of good information, sign me up for your next class!
Cheers! Tom
Thanks Tom! I'll put your name on the roll!
Cheers Gregg
Thanks for the video. I learned something new.
+PigeonSpeaks You're welcome!
Thanks for the tips!
Thank you for you patience. I think I may be getting this auto reversing concept. If district five goes through a potentially auto reversing section into district two. A length a track to hold the longest train would have an AR-1 to power this section, for example and it could receive its power from any one of the five districts. Correct
You have it Rick! If you have the space, I would go for a separate section if you can! No problem, at all, happy to help.
Gregg.
Hi, nice video. So if I have a wye, consisting of two turnouts (one with a diverging right switch and one with a diverging left switch) and those two turnouts that connect to a wye and the combination of the rail splits in three different directions, how many sections get an “AR1” or do you wire one AR1 to all three directions of track?
Thanks for a helpful and informative video.
Your welcome William!
Gregg:-)
Great information! Thank you for sharing! Wouldn't mind see more information on how to use digitrax products like the signalling system and how to set it up with a pm42.
Thanks and your very welcome! Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Digitrax system, I use NCE but you'll find heaps if info if you ask! Try BNSF6951, Vinny uses Digitrax and knows heaps of others who do as well.
Cheers Gregg
Might need to call you the Professor. Great job in explaining the topic...
LOL..maybe "professor idiot"..? Thanks for watcing sir.
Cheers Gregg
Great video!!! But I fell asleep half way through and fell off my chair!!! Thanks for the great information!!
Thanks Ron! You made it halfway ?? I think that's a record so far...LOL
Cheers Gregg :-)
What if there is a turnout in the reverse loop that a train can leave the reverse loop and stays in the same power district?
I boxed up winter and mailed it to you but it keeps coming back, recipiant unknown. How much did you have to pay them for being your fall guys. Qusestion from the class do the 1-1 electric locos need auto reversers?
LOL, actually Arthur, some of your mail has arrived, but only midly!. You'd laugh at our winter here, but I still feel it! The boys are good fun and great to work with, we spend a lot of time at work at all hours and in all conditions, so it pays to have a sense of humor! . The 1-1 electrics are not a problem ,as the cantenary is active and both or either rail is return. I don't know how the 3 rail underground system goes? Thanks for watching sir.
Cheers Gregg
Hi Gregg! As I mentioned a few months ago, I am constructing a layout with two reverse loops - a smaller one within a larger one with some common track shared between the two. There are two entrances/exits. It is complex enough that I don't have any idea if it can even be wired properly with the AR (or maybe two). I would like to send you a diagram and let you figure it out for me. Is that possible? Thanks for your electronic expertise.Dale
Gregg, Nice video! I hadn't really understood what an auto reverser does, but I'm starting to get it :-) In return for the electrical info I'll give you a modeler's suggestion. On your Kato units the light bar allows the head light to shine through the window in the nose door (it showed on the video). Take a daub of black paint and put it on the INSIDE of the nose window. That will block the light and still looks good.
Thanks Gary, glad your getting some info from the videos! The door window is bright on some units! They will get a painting when the locos get weathered, thanks for the tip!.
Cheers Gregg:-)
i hope you still monitor comments. This was great. Like you, I have used these and they kind of worked okay but had issues. Going over the details of operations-now I understand rather than follow directions. I wonder how many know how they actually work. I knew, but did not understand the significance of the AC style power. If you have reversing sections, watch all of this.
Hi Blaine, thanks for the comments and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Auto reversers do use a bit of black magic and it does help to understand them! These , having a relay to change the polarity,, are old school now, as the new ones do it much faster electronically, but they still work great once you have them set up. The only issue with these , is if you have electronic CB's , you have to slow the trip time down , as the circuit breaker trips faster the the reverser!
Thanks for watching.
Cheers Gregg.
@@FishplateFilms Sounds like you need to do another video. I am pulling my old stuff out of storage. I have five AR1 so should be as you describe. ?? Should be like 2008 vintage. I'll read the directions, but now with understanding of what they are really saying. Thanks Again. And you are entertaining as hell. Kid of guy I would like to "grab a pint" with.
@@blainedunlap4242 Actually Blaine, I've done a video on NCE electronic CB's and I do mention the Auto Reversers in that . I've yet to buy a new Auto reverser , but it will happen one day and I'll review it then.
Thanks for the kind comments and I'll have a Single Malt when you order the drinks Sir!
Cheers Gregg.
Gregg .. thanks for the video! I have two reversing loops on my staging level and was completely confused as to how to wire them up. I am using NCE like you and was wondering if there were any issues using the Digitrax AR1 or would you go with the never versions from DCC Specialities? I am in N scale.
The Digitrax AR1 and PM42 will operate well with a NCE system. With the PM42 you will be able to use 1 device to operate 4 power districts or 4 reverse loops or any combination of each. A PM42 is usually cheaper than 3 AR1s.
Greg, thanks for the video and info. Question. I am just about to install an AR1 with a Wye. On the diagrams ive seen it appears the ARI is connected to only one of the two tracks leading to my reversing loop tail (in a rail yard to a dead end stop.) IS that right or should i connect the AR1 to both incoming tracks?
Also, is it Possible to use a three track turnout with the ARI? I was thinking of using the middle track as a short dead end track for parking an engine?
Thanks in advance - cheers, Chris
Hi Chris, a bit late I realise...but only one track needs to be switched , as you say. Also make sure all your trains fit in that section so they don't short out both ends at once. And yes you can use a 3 way turnout.
Cheers Gregg .
As always, Great job!
Thanks very much Tim !
Gregg:-)
Great Video Gregg! (pssst! I'm a bit late getting to watching this, busy).
Thanks bud, Mitch
Thanks Mitch! No worries sir, glad you enjoyed it!
Cheers Gregg
@@FishplateFilms q aqua!
Thanks very much, I'm doing a wye , but that's basically the same . BTW you are a crazy bunch ;-)
Thank you! Yes it's the same for a wye, just remember that your train must fit in the wye!. It's helps to be a little crazy down here..LOL
Cheers Gregg
thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching Raquel!
good explaination! however i got a loop to loop track with both end a reversing loops, does that means i need two AR1? or one AR1 to do the job? i foumd a very simple circuit involving two bridge recifiers with one relay
Thanks Mathew! Yes you would need two AR1's . I would be careful making my own though, you have a lot of expensive gear on , and running the track. The newer versions are electronic and work even faster and smoother.
Cheers Gregg.
Hi Gregg, Excellent video, even my wife was interested. I have just gone to DCC after a garage fire that totally destroyed my railway, so a big learning curve. If I have a double track that needs an auto reverser do I need to use two AR1's?
Cheers, Garth
Thanks Garth, glad you and your wife liked the clip! Maybe I'm trying the wrong lines on girls , should be talking technical stuff..LOL Sorry to hear about the fire, you'll love DCC once you get the hang of it. If you have two lines that reverse onto each other, then yes you will need two AR1's . Don't forget your train must fit in the section!!
Cheers Gregg.
One more question if you do not mind. I have four power districts and a yard. The yard joins district one just fine. It joins district two in one spot fine. The problem occurs when the yard joins district two around a curve resulting in a polarity mis-match. Can my DB200 be set to auto reversing and then power the yard, resulting in only gapping the yard from the other districts? I call the yard district five.
Hi Rick,
You could do that , though that would mean the yard is running through the auto reverser and switching polarity every time a train enters dist' 2. You could, if the track work allows, have a length of track between the yard and district 2 and this would be the "switched " section , but this section would have to be as long as your longest train! If you're happy having the whole yard switched, then go with your idea,
Cheers Gregg.
Gregg great info. I am having a reversing issue on my Layout. I am NCE here I have a AR10 No Loop per say I have an oval that I added two turnouts on. they both go thru a WYE the first turnout take me to my Helix and on the return back I go to the left side of the WYE and right there is a polarity mismatch. I Added the AR10 one end to the DCC bus the other end I put the feeders of the two sections of track that meet where the polarity mismatch is The WYE is insulated on all three sides each line into the WYE is insulated at both end. But it still shorts when I run my engine over the track. The AR10 is a circuit board and no relay. No sound either. Any ideas or suggestions Thanks Tom
Hi Thomas, Wye's can be a bit tricky, but you only need to insulate one leg , Treat the Wye as a siding ,with a turnout at the end, with the track coming from that turnout , going back to the mainline. This is the track you need to insulate with four insulated joiners/fishplates. If you try to do both , you will get problems! Also remember that the whole train must fit in the reverse section! I hope that helps? Let me know if you need any more info!
Cheers Gregg.
Rick. I have three reverse loops on my layout. I had intended to use one as a storage track. Is it normal that if I have a train within this loop and turn all power off overnight, then turn back on next day, that the auto reverser will short?
Hi Jack,
If the AR is clicking on and off on startup, it is sensing too much current, like a short when trains go over the joints at each end. Try adjusting the trip current up a tiny bit and also make sure that the train is not longer than the reversing section! If you have a few sound equipped locos in the section, they use a bit of current on start also, so up the trip current a little!
Hope this helps.
Cheers Gregg
Gregg: Great video, albeit the sound was rather hard to understand because of the echo in the room. I have a unique application for my DCC NCE layout; I need to bridge two sections of my layout which are on separate buss assignments (B1 & B2). I want to run a length of straight track (non-loop stand alone buss#4) between the two sections using an AR-1 (or multiples) so as to switch polarity between B1 & B2. I wish there was a way to attach a diagram to this comment. How can I configure the AR1, please?
Lastly, in your drawing illustration, which track bus supplies the AR1? THANKS
Hi and thanks for watching! I may have misunderstood, but you don't need an reverser between power busses, as long as the rails are the same polarity where they meet. If they are not, you can't use an AR across 2 separate busses. You'll need to make a short section the same polarity for both on the joint , then on the "SAME' buss, after that short section install your reverse section which must be as long as the longest train you will run. So you'll swap polarity on one side to match on a short section of track, then install your straight AR section.
The main bus for that section supplies the AR! .
Hope that helps.
Gregg
When trains in reverse loops are changing DCC signals, what is happening to all the other decoder signals on the rest of the layout. Are the mainline signals being changed? An example would involve a train waiting to go into the reversing section in a siding and the train coming out of the reversing loop uses the auto reverser changing the DCC signals: how is the waiting train on the mainline affected?
Hi Rick, only the "polarity" of the track in the reverser is changed, the frequencies that cary the signals are not affected.All the AR1 does is swap the track leads over on the reverse section and the rest of the layout is not affected. Hope this helps.
Cheers Gregg.
G'day Greg. I'm a little confused by the return power change over. If you have a dc motor and you connect the wire's +ve & -ve the motor will spin in one direction then if you reverse the wire's the motor will spin in the other direction. At the return end of the loop aren't you reversing the rotation of the motor by turning it around. Isn't that the same as swapping the wire rotation thingy? Does this work on both DC and DCC setups or is it something that is particular to DCC only?
HI Chris,
This is one of the many advantages of DCC ! The track is AC, so therefore does not really have "polarity" like DC. The motor is fed DC from the decoder which knows what direction it needs to be in, and the AC is only there to feed the decoder, and doesn't care what "polarity" it gets. The Reverser is only there to make the "rails" line up at each end , so the wheels don't short out the track as they pass over.
Hope this helps!
Cheers Gregg.
G'day your Lord ship. Thanks heaps mate. I wasn't aware about the AC side of thing's now I have got it buried deep in the grey matter I'll just have to remember where I buried it next time. With my wheat siding the train will enter via a LH point and sweep around behind the complex where all the carriages are stored in sidings will pass through the loader and cross opposite direction rail's { 2or3 } lines. Would this be done similar to a reversing loop change over or a different system altogether? Sorry Greg, I don't mean to be a pain in the arse but you sound like you know a fair bit about all of this stuff, being a sparky helps I suppose and a modeller. Thanks mate.Regards Chris @@FishplateFilms
@@chriscorrigan7420 Yes thats correct CHris. If it goes through a diamond, then that would be the end of the reverse section. I'd have to see a drawing to confirm it, but draw it out using different colours for each rail, and then you can see where you need to put the reverse section.
Gregg 🙂
Hi Greg, I just bought a couple of AR1s and found your video, after watching it and after paying VERY careful attention I have one question, (maybe it's me being pedantic but! - I was building radios in 1951 with war surplus components and took note of diagrams) In your diagram in the classroom is there an error in the wiring from the "output" from the AR1? it looks a bit like you've wired yourself a short circuit. ie. either one end or the other need to be swapped. I've read all the comments about the video and agree with all of them, it's great - I hadn't considered the extra length of rail after the frog. Otherwise keep up your excellent work.
Looks like I idd Lindsay, well spotted! You can see where I redrew it , I initially
didn't have the turnout in . I blame the boys for distracting me. Glad you like the videos!
Cheers Gregg
Thank you
What if there are two turnouts in the reverse loop, one at each end; essentially making a second loop. Will the one Auto reverser work?
Yes that would work Rick, as long as the turnouts are "inside" the reverse section.
Gregg :-)
When you mention the "train length" inside the reversing section, do you mean just the portion picking up power (locomotives and lighted or resistor wheelset equipped cars) or the entire train?
The entire train! This is because the metal wheels will short across the insulated joints at the rear end of the reverse section, and trip the AR.
Cheers Gregg.
@@FishplateFilms I understand now, thank you!
hello there I asking the question that AR1 relay working with insulfrog but what about the electroforg turnouts?
Hi Erik,
All my turnouts are electrofrog, but it's better if you can avoid having a turnout at the end of a section. Insulfrog will work but you'll still need insulated fishplates at each end of the reversing section.
Cheers Gregg.
Please Sir, is your wiring of the AR1 correct, the outer track at the entry point is connected to the right connection on the AR1, but so is the inner section of the exit point, won't this short the system.
Hi Nick , yes a white board error I'm afraid! You can see where I rubbed out the lines and drew them wrong! Well spotted Sir! but not the first to notice my cock up..LOL
Cheers Gregg.
So if DCC is AC power and not DC why are short an issue? Find this confusing because AC is constantly changing polarity as it flows also Marklan trains are AC and a reverse Loop is no problem as far as worrying about a short circuit do you need no polarity reversing with Märklin.
I’m asking this because I am getting ready to wire my first Dcc layout any explanation and help would be appreciated. Thank you for the video, it was very helpful just left me with this question.
Hi Hans', you are right about AC, and if you watch the video again I do explain that it is the rails looping around on each other that causes the short. The outer rail loops around and becomes the "inner" rail and that is the same as touching both rails together, hence the need for a reverser. Marklin does not have that problem as they use a third centre rail that is the "active" and the two normal rails are the return, so the middle rail always goes back to itself and the outer rails are the same so no problem if they cross!
Hope this helps and thanks for watching.
Gregg.
Great video! I'm a novice at DCC and am building a layout that will have two reversing loops. How does the reverse loop operate when you have two or more powered engine in a consist? Does it keep reversing every time a powered engine crosses it? Or does it reverse for the first engine while the second engine is in the other power district then reverses for the second engine when it passes into the second power district? Thanks.
Hi Dale, glad you like the video! I'm afraid the whole train must be in the reversing section, this includes mid or rear helpers! If the train is hanging over both ends at the same time, the wheels can short both cut sections at once causing a short circuit. If the train is entering the reverse section and other locos in the train are still out , that is ok as long as all the train fits in the loop!
The first axel trips the reverser (if it needs to) and it will stay that way until it is tripped at the other end.
So as long as your whole train fits in the reverse section, it doesn't matter where the locos are.
Hope this makes sense?
Cheers Gregg.
i Gregg! Thanks for the reply which prompts more questions. You keep stressing that the entire train must be within the loop. What actually trips the AR1... is it the fact that it detects a power drop (short) in the track as the loco's pickup wheels pass over the insulators or do ANY wheels trip the AR1? In other words, is it the loco that actually does the tripping?What if the train BACKS into the loop with the engine passing the insulated section last? Will the passing of the caboose also trip the AR1? You said plastic wheels do not affect the AR1. And what are 'resistive axles', are they for metal wheels? If the train cars have metal wheels does that affect the AR1? I didn't think the cars cause a short between rails. Next issue. My layout has a wye immediately after the train leaves the loop. There is no way that the entire train will fit in the wye which is only 24 inches on a side. I assume that the wye needs its own AR1. The train must pass through the wye in either direction to continue around the layout. The wye is intended to turn locos, too. So many questions...Thanks for your expertise on these matters.Dale
I have a mainline involving a reverse loop. In side this reverse loop on the mainline I have a turnout exiting to a yard.
The power district for the loop area and the reversing portion is the same. I plan to have the same power district on a short piece of track exiting to the yard. Seems like the one AR-1 would do the job.
Yes Rick, as long as the yard is fed from the AR1 , or you put insulated joiners going into the yard. Then you should be fine.
Gregg :-)
I have a layout in my basement. It was here when I bought the house. I have been trying to get the layout to run for years but the trains always stop in the same spot. I think it has to do with a reverse loop. I know there is a reverse loop on the layout. I do not know what I am doing wrong to get it to operate. There are two transformers on layout. How do I know if trains are running in same direction?
Hi Douglas! If you can afford it . I would consider changing to DCC, for a start , the basic wiring is a lot less complicated! You can't use a reverser on DC, and it is complicated to do it with DC. Without seeing the layout , I would have no idea where to start! You could use a multi meter check the polarity on all the tracks and try to figure out where they go ? Sorry I can't be of more help.
Cheers Gregg
Even though this is manufactured by Digitrax, it is compatable with other DCC systems power systems?
Hi AJ, yes you can use this with any DCC system.
Cheers Gregg.
Another great video, Gregg! And to think you did it all without Lord Dardgauge's help.
... and yes, it was actually so simple that I could understand it. Well done!
Thanks Dwayne!, glad you got it and Lord Stan is not allowed at work...LOL
Cheers Gregg
hey Gregg.. very helpful info... i get it now... rip out the DCC & go back to DC...LOL
you always mention to have the entire train in the loop... WHY????.. i won't have a problem with that both of my loops will accommodate a full train.. just want to know the reason... would you incorporate industrial sidings in the loop?
thanks for sharing this useful info
your US buddy
vinny
Thanks Vinny!, but there's no way I could go back to DC! If you were paying attention in class instead of looking at girls on your phone, you would of heard me say why that's a problem! Now ,the issue is a train that is longer than the section will have axle's going over both ends of the section at the same time, which shorts out through the electronics and the relay in the reverser. It will try and switch each time a wheelset shorts out the gap,at each end, if this happens at the same time, ( you'd be amazed how often it does!) it will short out the reverser!. No problem if you have plastic wheels...but who has them!!
Now , detention for you and Ron!
Gregg:-)
P.S, yes you can have sidings in the loop, but fed from the reverser only!
FishplateFilms OOPS sorry professor... but i think i like the girls a little better...LOL ... both of my AR1's are installed & working perfectly at this time.. there will be a 3rd when i get to the helix... thanks for all your help i do appreciate it...
vinny
Nice video but still problems with reverse loop. I have 2 ovals which are joined by turnout to enable entry into inner oval. In the inner oval I have created the reverse loop. None of my switches are wired. Cut the reverse loop as it created short. Any tips on insulator insulation to enable operation of reverse loop
+blaiseduff You will have to send me a drawing to see how it looks! Then I can see what you need .
Cheers Gregg
I will need an email to send. Can send pic of layout as just track laid at that moment. Thank You
Hi Gregg,
I was wondering if you could help me on how I should install my Digitrax AR1. I could send you a PDF on what i'm so confuse on.
Sal
Hi Sal, yes , send me some info on the track layout, include all turnouts in the reversering section and make sure your longest train fits in that section!
Cheers Gregg
awesome video gregg however one question and forgive me if it is a stupid one, but what is the difference between 1 oval track layout and the loop (Auto Reverser) they still use the same track. if this is a stupid i apoligise now, however if you could answer that would be good
Thank you A PR . A oval track has the same rails coming back on each other, where a reversing loop has the left hand rail (for example) coming back onto the right hand rail, basically shorting out the two rails. Don't apologise for asking questions, that's how we learn!
Cheers Gregg
Thanks - the light just went on lol..... Thanks for what you do. Your build videos are the best out there. I appreciate your time and dedication to the hobby. I could watch your videos every day..... Hows your layout going these days....
A PR Thank you for the support and kind words sir!. I also enjoy finding good how to videos on topics I know little about!...especially scenery and weathering...LOL. The layout is getting more track this Easter weekend and I'm filming part 3 of "Programming Tsunami Decoders for realistic operation" . A layout is coming in a few weeks.
Cheers Gregg
The four wires exiting the AR-1 to the loop are a direct short. You show both wires going to one rail. One set has to be switched, does it not?
I re drew it Rick and forgot to rub out the crossed wires..you can see where I redrew it. Well spotted! You run a pair to each end of the loop, not crossed of course!
Cheers Gregg.
Sorry to bother you. I have watched the video many times and have not found where you re-drew the four blue wires coming out of the AR-1 to the two blue tracks. The blue wire from number 1 on the AR-1 goes to the outside rail on the left and it goes to the inside rail on the right side. Should this right blue wire on the right side go to the same outside rail, as one the left side?
No worries Rick, it is my bad drawing that is the problem..LOL You are correct, terminal 1 will go to the outside rail at each end and 2 will go to the inside rail at each end. You really only need one pair of wires but if the loop is a bit long it is best to have a set at each end!
Hope this clears it up for you!
Cheers Gregg.
Gregg...fantastic video. I have watched it several times as I am still trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. I have the AR-1 wired and the track insulated as you have described. The problem I am having is that the loco is stopping completely when going over one of the insulated sections. It does fine going over the other section. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Thank you Jeff! Are both of the insulated fishplates in line at the joint? Also if the trip current is set to high, it will trip the overload on your system . Try running the train in both directions to make sure it is the track and also try another loco? Try those and let me know.
Gregg :-)
@@FishplateFilms Thank you for the prompt reply. Yes the insulated fishplates are in line at the joint. I will adjust the trip current as well as running the train in both directions and other loco's. I will do that tomorrow and let you know. Thank you.
@@FishplateFilms Gregg...it works...it works...it works. Wow. Thank you very much. It ended up that the trip current was set too high and once I made the adjustment, it operated perfectly and will each of the three loco's that I have.
Thank you for taking to time to respond to my call for help.
Jeff
@@jeffworthen4643 You're welcome Jeff! The trip current is very sensitive so you may want to try having all 3 locos running on the reverse section to make sure it doesn't trip with all 3 running on it at the same time. The trick is to run the highest load through the section ( in the loop between both sets of insulated fishplates) and then turn the trip current down until it starts to chatter, then turn it up just a little . Then you have the least trip current but still enough to run all your locos through the section.
Glad I could help.
Cheers Gregg
@@FishplateFilms Very interesting. I will give that a try in the next couple of days. I have another reverse loop section with a different module and the trip current is not adjustable. I have been messing with it for a couple of months and when I saw your video, I ordered the AR1. Then, just today, I ordered another AR1 to replace the module that I am not able to get to work. I tried each of your tips and the loco's would always stop at one of the insulated fishplates. I'm anxious to get the new AR1. Great tip above.
Jeff
Hi, I’m a DC guy, and I have this loop, and use toggle switch, can I use the Digitrac AR1 if I run on DC? I’m not on DCC.
Hi Bill , I'm afraid not . The revereser changes the rail polarity in the loop , but it can do it due to the "AC" current having a frequency. The rail changes polarity at about 50 times a second which of course DC does not. This is , for me, one of the best things about DCC...oh and the noise!
Sorry about that .
CHeers Gregg.
@@FishplateFilms ok, thanks.
looking at the blue lines on the AR1 wiring to the right shorts with the wire to the left. Trace the blur wire . Note you only need one connection please evaluate.
My bad! With all the drawing, I forgot to rub out the two wires. With long sections, it is best to have a feeder at each end, as it speeds up the tripping process.
Gregg.
Looks like you have created a short on your AR1 output. Geoff. W.
Well spotted Geoff! I forgot to wipe off some of the lines on the board!
Cheers Gregg
Why would revenue cars, even lighted passenger cars long than the reversing loop cause problems, unless you had a pusher engine entering the reversing loop the same time the head engine is exciting. That would probably cause the AR-1 to have a conniption. Also, what if your reverse loop was your staging yard (my design calls for looped staging yards at each end of the mainline), three tracks, a main and two storage tracks. Is that clear as mud . . . Cheers Ron . . .
Hi Ron. It is not the current draw of a car or loco that is the issue, it is the metal wheels shorting out the gap at the insulated joint. Every time a wheel goes over the join, it will trip the reverser if the other end has tripped already, so if a train is longer than the reverse section, the AR1 will trip back and forth as each wheel goes over the joint at each end. This happens at both ends and very often at the same time, shorting out the track as the AR1 tries to switch both ends at once and it happens more than you would think! So it crucial that trains do not overlap the reverse section. All 4 of your roads must be long enough for the train length and all must have their own AR1 if they come back onto the main.
Hope that helps.
Cheers Gregg.
Another good humour, good info explanation!! I have a question....
I still don't quite understand how the whole circuitry works. I get that when the train enters the loop, the AR makes sure that the phase is the same in the loop.....
But what of the other end? When the train LEAVES the loop, is the phase of the entire mainline buss reversed - or the section of loop that the train is still sitting on???
I did electronics and avionics in the Militry, but I can't grasp this!
It doesn't make sense to me, that the track is reversed UNDER the running train - but even less sense that it should reverse EVERY other piece of track!!
Please Gregg! If you know, what am I not getting??
Cheers, Carmine 🚂
Also....... It seems like it's been quite a while since you've put out any of your highly entertaining tutorials...
Any new ones in the works?? 😉😎
Thanks Carmine! Only the track that is switched by the AR changes , not the rest of the layout. The AR has a input and a output which is the auto reverse section. If the reverser trips on entry it will not trip again as it is correct for leaving the section and if a train enters from that same end, it will not trip until it gets to the other end.. Hope this clears this up and there are two recent videos , one on transition curves and a layout update!.
Cheers Gregg.
I will be looking at those latest videos!
OMG!!!!! Was it really that simple? I must be getting old!!! Thanks Gregg!
LOL... they had me baffled for a while as well!
Gregg.
Well mate..... maybe I don't feel AS bad now!! 😛
Insulfrog turnouts leading in to the loop ar 10 makes it through the left gap but shorts at the right gap booster shuts down first the ar 10 does not chang polarity.
Hi Juergen, Thanks for watching! You can't use a insulfrog turnout as a insulated joint, as the power goes through the turnout under the frog. You must use two insulated fishplates at each end of the reversing section/loop. Hope this helps.
Cheers Gregg.
How do you use this with a turntable?
Wire the turntable as the reversing section, simple as that!
Gregg :-)
Aaah, ya lost me. But I am just a dumb 3railer, never heard of reversers...LOL. Great vid tho, reminds me of grammar school, "another saturday detention" for me, darn. Robert
LOL, don't worry Robert, it gets me confused at times as well! At times , you do wish it was basic DC.....but not for long..LOL
Thanks for watching, Gregg.
Short at the loop on 1 gap useing an ar10 booster shuts down first ar dose not chang polarity.
Hi Greg, great how-to! For shorting reversers that is. The problems you describe for me were the reason to choose for a non-shorting reverser module by Littfinski. This module works WITHOUT ever shorting the rails.
You can find a description here:
www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:ksm-sg
HTH, Gerard
Thanks Gerard! That unit looks expensive, but I definitely see the advantage in not relying on a short to activate the switching! Food for thought in the future!
Thanks for the info.
Cheers Gregg
Lmao Jesus! Who's phone?" Detention there, haha
Theo did indeed get detention...A week as Lord Stan's Butler..LOL
haha fine Mr smarty pants, it "doesn't" change the polarity but it does change the Phase to align the AC phase correctly for the two track sections. XD very helpful and glad i found you again.
LOL..thanks Liam! I didn't want to get to much into it ..but it is a bit hard to explain correctly! It does also stops the inner rail touching the outer rail:-).
Thanks for watching.
Happy new year.
Gregg.
my layout is DC not dcc
Well then..... you're in the wrong place!
Okay, 1:30 into the video so far and nothing about AR1 or any commentary. So long ...
sloppy report