Playing knuckle duster instead of haymaker was such a genius move Mangs moved in, full force, thinking he would take a break, but actually, the second knuckle duster was already half full for the retaliation To be fair, Mangs didn't listen to his own advice; you can't make a wall against Grimm. If he had made backup reinforcements, which the Grimm player was very careful of, the match would at least take longer
I agree. Adder's super basically put all his units in a range of Grim's reinforcements, who then charged in and slaughtered him. I think in principle, Adder is a potential counter, but in practice, it's a bit more difficult to make that extra movement count if the action is compact enough. Grim just sacrificed enough of his tanks to make it seem worthwhile, while Mangs had just been hit with a knuckle duster. This map is a perfect Grim Map, because Adders Speed matters much less on compact maps with clearly defined lanes. No one hits harder than Grim units coming off his supply line. Double-knuckle Duster is just devastating. Especially given that, thanks to the Battle Copter, Grim had control over the game's pace. Mangs had to respond to his battle chopper and had fewer tanks overall.
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 Grimm used Adder's mobility against him. With Sidewinder he rushed all his units to the frontline where they were ripe for his counter move.
@@ZorotheGallade aye, or to be more precise, Grim was aleady winning the positional game, in both the map choice and having a more aggressive load out. Mangs didn’t build a battle copter, Grim did. Therefore Grim was never really on the defensive, didn’t waste credits on AA. I kinda feel that’s what it boiled down to. Which is really easy for a armchair tactician to say, but I’m glad Mangs had put out these games to enjoy. ^^
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 Yeah, it really started feeling that way when Mangs commented on having to commit two AAs to keep a single copter in check, which is already a huge resource disadvantage.
Grimm is like playing Age of Empires; I tend to single wide units against scorpions, but with grimm he's got that scorpion off to the left and right shooting at me at all sides instead of the obvious. who needs a mangonel when out witting your opponent when they least expected scorpions. i know RTS Vs TBS isn't really a good analogy, but outsmarting is definately both barrels.
@@Santisima_Trinidad Yeah, but he didn't build many in this match, and someone said Andy is his spirit animal, so I commented about him not knowing what an airport is.
7:17 Yes, recons are banned on this very map. Just going early recon on centre base and even 1b side can reach contested areas faster than tanks can. And they can do a lot of damage as early recons. Took me a bit of reading to see how deadly it can be. Side note, commentary coming later, even though I never played on this map.
@@VivaLaRazsa not really ... if recons are so good why not make them yourself instead of bitching? It is stupid that you ban unit that just perform well. Lets ban naval units on naval map because obviously they may perform well lol. So what if battle copter will be good on certain map then you ban it ? Why not ban infantry completely because they tend to be good on all maps ;x ... , Revkor is 100% right. Also somehow noone has problems with tanks being good and countering them with your ... own tanks. Yeah I know shocking. Map is fine, community failed completely on that one. There will be always units that perform somewhat better than others due to various factors in certain conditions.
@@Mario-kf3ej I am no expert, but it may be the case that player 1 has a significant advantage bc they can make their recons first. Usually, player 2 gets a handicap like one pre-deployed infantry or one extra property very close to player 1 so that player 2 gets a couple thousand extra income, but that may not be enough on this map without recons banned.
@@j-rey- if starting first in chess would make idk Bishop too strong, would you remove Bishop from game ? Look to make it straight - I'm not saying Recon isn't OP on this map . I'm not arguing with this directly. What I'm saying is "deal with it" - instead of robbing game from its features for some artificial "justice". Sure players can do as they please. But it may slowly but surelly lead to banning many other units "overperforming" somewhere. Diverse units on map are amazing to watch and use. Cutting options is never good thing. Especially for those who would benefit from them most. Thing is people forget that this game is unfair to begin with - someone is going to start first ,both players can't. And in 99% of situations games are not mirrors. Different CEO instantly make game somewhat "unfair" and imbalanced. But isn't that part of game beauty ? To play around your weakness and strenghts ? Taking off this Recon is sign of weakness of players not map.
Grimm's playstyle seems to be build a ton of tank/infantry and scale defensively and if the the opponent makes a slight mistake capitalize on it and having so much fire power he can snowball like crazy if he gets any really good singular turns or a lot of decent turns, downside is he has to play to near perfection
This game was so good. the way your opponent countered adder's superior speed through always having a reserve ready to counterattack was really impressive
15:15 This is what I think Mangs was trying to explain. Imagine you have an AA on a city. In front of you are 6 plain tiles, a forest and a mountain tile all in a row. The enemy B-Copter sits on the mountain. You might think its in range of a slideslip, but youre wrong. Even though its 8 tiles away, and your AA hits the forest without a power, you still can't traverse the forest without a SCOP. However, it's easy to mistake it as in range of a power because it seems like it's only one extra tile away.
That is due to fact that you "pay" movement when entering tile, so if the "next tile" is a forest, you won't gain any bonus movement. As a map maker, this is something you use to double slow with only one forest. if the forest is at exactly 6 tile away from a base, a tank won't be able to enter the tile, hence moving only 5 tiles, then next turn it still has to enter it for 2 move cost. this also allows for tank and Arty to land on the same tile. This phenomena is reinforced with recons and other wheel movement units since forests cost 3.
Should've made a Battle Copter of his own instead. Slightly more expensive than an AA, yes. However, Grimm's units are made of paper, and BC mirror matchups are far more exaggerated in favor of first strikes than Tanks or Infantry. If a BC even without a firepower boost strikes a Grimm BC first, that BC will have a critical existence failure. He could then keep his BC in reserve and build a few more, making it difficult for Grimm Guy to manage ground and air engagements without having to resort to a Fighter.
@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 Also B-Copter don't have the forest problem so they fully benefit the +1 movement. And if Grimm Guy was to build AA in counter, in this case, they would have suffer from the forest.
@Aztum The Knight Of Wumbo oh 1000%. Mangs made a huge blunder when he started building 4 AAs to counter 2 copters. He spent 32K to not even fully counter 18K worth of units. Furthermore, his AAs can't engage the tanks, whereas the copters can. I know Fluhfee says Copters aren't sufficient air defense, but in this matchup, they are the way to go
@@mavairick Exactly. This map is made to counter movement CO's it seems like. But since Airports are available, it makes sense to use it more, and Mangs did not use it to it's fullest potential at all.
Playing against Grimm is basically a battle of who overextends first. Adder can really overextend when he uses his super which makes him super vulnerable to Grimm's knuckles. To play Grimm, you need to be patient and just wait for one wrong move before you dust your knuckles on someone's face. It's about knowing your opponents timings and taking advantage
Mangs known strategy I heard him named so far: The Scorched Earth - Killing off your opponent's infantries. Divide and Conquer - Dividing opponent's force with a usage of a blocking unit (usually on choky maps)
Well, it's one thing to commentate as a third party, and another to be the one facing them. I can imagine a lot of nerves. Timestamps below 0:00 - 3:59 In a vaccum, Adder holds the cards over Grimm. Adder does not need any towers to 2HKO Grimm tanks on cities due to that lower defence and as you said, movement bonuses, so you have a flexibility of attack timing and strategic choice. The first two decisions made here did not quite tilt things in your favour. It is telling your opponent what CO you're using and then allowing the opponent to choose the map. Now you know why GL randomizes map and hides CO selection before the battle starts. In this case, I am assuming your opponent does not watch your AWBW content and guess what CO you would pick, and I am guessing you want it to be fair for both of you. Instead, he pick a map that as you pointed out, neutralises Adder's strengths massively. The airport is somewhat more cornered than most (Adder prefers a more forward airport like HT, Celeste and Golden Probe Redux even), but even worse is the base locations, as you find out later. As such, you want to preserve your frontliners and repair them, while destroying your opponent's. And that's how your opponent neutralises your CO's strengths and enhances his own to a degree. (-20% defence will hurt him in preservation, so he has to be tactically and positionally sharp to compensate) Now I have reviewed 1-2 games here, and despite the rough terrain near the base, tanks are good here as are B Copters. So I am surprised that during your match, you did not build a single B Copter. You can reach 18k on this map, and while you won't reach it unless all properties are captured in parity, it is an important strategic motif in this map. (So capture interrupts or even attacking infantry on cities) Other motifs incluide things like centre control and what to do about the corner towers. 3:59 Match starts here. 5:20 Aside from the capture chain, it appears Grimm Guy knows about the prioritisation of this chain. Sure, his future infantry may need to tower rush, but when his main strategy is to be tank first, this is critical. Quite sure he calculated, his capture order looks similar to DCM v Randomwayz. 7:17 I mentioned previously how early recons are good on this map, as you see later, it took a while for tanks to reach key areas, while a recon is not as slowed due to the number of roads and the + 2 movement that affects later turns. 8:04 Not covered in commentary, but the rear infantry cap is the consequence of not going for the chain first. 8:24 This forward property may have been in your zone, but it's not covered by tanks unless you flank tank deploy. If you plan on considering tank centre deployment, you may want to look at the rear property rather than this one. (Notice how Grimm did not cap this property until later in view of this continuation) Someone else pointed out how damaging this infantry prevented you from going 2T 1 infantry next turn, and I do think that tempo cost and then the free infantry does not justify capping this property rather than the rear centre one. 9:00 Imagine that. Grimm 1T is as powerful as Kindle on cities, it will definitely work out in his favour with a first strike. 10:04 The tank spam fest was what happened in game, but as you saw later, the B Copters have had that greater impact. 11:48 Viewer bug, sadly. 15:48 It does, but this is a guy who knows his positioning chops well. I am sure he has that taken care of now that your tanks are a bit overextended. 14:00 AA is best served as area defence on this map, akin to artillery. That will take a while to come in, you need B Copters for B Copter zoning. 15:06 It's a problem of most forest placements. And snow and rain, somewhat. 16:38 Think I am more surprised here that despite that neutral prop being closer to your base, it is still neutral. And now Grimm guy is taking the property that is meant to be contested, but is now unopposed. 19:46 I think you forgot here that this Grimm prefers Knuckleduster. So I doubt the Adder Super works longer term. 20:22 It's not looking good when your opponent has the infantry advantage in what should be your area on the top left, and that you need to drag 2 AAs there to clean up. Now his B Copters have free reign, and his tanks have free real estate elsewhere. 21:01 6%-7%+14-16$+ 66-75% is not a kill even in the best luck rolls. On that note, I saw a better movement order on review. The AA nearby would have surely killed the 2HP tank and then your other AA would be in a better position. Might get them wiped, but it would be slightly better for you. 21:33 It's a wall, but it is an overextended wall that gives their rear tanks a single purpose that they would not have otherwise. Bottom right engagements... I can't say this is good for you long term since that is relatively a contested area. In about 2-3 turns this won't look good for you. 22:08 Yep, with that, it's over. After the ensuing turn, centre and right front has collapsed. The comm tower base tank has the most difficult decision of its life there. 22:40 Match ends here.
Damn, that was short and sweet. I think it's really interesting to see how Grimm Guy does his tactics, and I'd love to see more. It's a unique flavor of AWBW I think, and really makes you think! GGs!
This was really fun, please get more Grimm guy. It is so cool seeing him subvert the traditional opinion that Grimm is a bad CO pretty much universally.
Grimm has had it with everyone smack talking him, he's now flipping the tables, showing how he really fights! it was a ruse from the start, his weaker units were to bait everyone all along.
If I wasn't so lazy, I would make the Mangs1337 vs Mangs name situation into a zoolander meme (Mangs1337 turns around and sees Mangs walking around with the name he wanted to have)
Irony: "Mangs is the account I made 14 years ago and forgot about" "Mangs1337 sounds like an account a 14 year old would make" Actual account a 14 year old made: Mangs
It's so relatable that you forgot you had an account on AWBW. I went to make an account today and found my preferred username taken. It was me I took the username.
8:33 You're underestimating that hit on the infantry a bit. It also put you below 15k requiring a base skip to build double tank that turn. Delayed a Tank that could counter Grimm's tank on left side base or defend your right side base. 9:58 Moving the injured Inf next to the neutral city. Would be covered better by your tanks. The Grimm tank has to move further from the right side base. Taking some pressure off your com tower if Grimm decided to finish off the infantry. Which help a bit since you only had 1 infantry defending com tower vs Grimm's 3
Mangs: Let's leverage the +1 movement power to strike all of his stuff first hard-countering them. Also Mangs: Let's trade our units because if he strikes my units first I can strike him back. Also hold onto the power. Grimm Guy: Oh look free trades while I day-to-day into my regular power spam :)
you baited yourself. I mean you played adder in order to have the movement advantage and than you place your whole army into range for him to first strike with his power no less
Well, let’s just say that battle was pretty damn hype. I felt like you had him for a few minutes, but that raw power at the end of the match, damn Grimm is underrated. Good try egg, that was a pretty fun match to walk.
I actually love playing Grimm, but I definitely have a tendency to meat grind my units. Did decently well against a Grit in a high funds match, but eventually got zoned by battleships
Even against Grimm trying to do a staggered formation seems risky; where you literally have to literally think steps ahead. even being a movement CO is all fine and dandy, but it seems when you've got a CO that's not only "reckless" with a -20% defense, but during smart placements, that 130% is just insane. being a hybrid of AW1 Sturm and Max is just crazy enough that Grimm has been thrown under the radar because people just think of him as a meme; when reality that -20% defense has put him into a different light and position of play that EVERYONE not just the grimm player needs to do; and i find that awesome.
I believe Grimm's power is much better than his super, since most of the time you get enough firepower with the power, you can pop it a lot more and most importantly it gives you a 10% defence bonus which almost counteracts grimm's weakness.(-10% def is a lot better than -20%)
Man, I'd love to see a game on AWBW where you just copy your opponents opener 1 for 1 for the first 5 or so turns until the big mid melee begins haha. Who needs map knowledge when you have the replay function!
11:20 not divide and conquer, that's splitting your enemies and making them fight each other. This is more like Defeat In Detail (isolate and destroy units with local superiority) using Interior Lines (being able to move back and forth more easily from a central base)
@@grampaseri Mangs is not new to AWBW he can see when copter are viable or not, you believe he is that stupid ? Even then he knows that if is copter attack Grimm copter first he'll gain the upper hand easily.
@@DarkOrderSolDjango Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to miss an opportunity choosing what units to build or to underestimate the terrain. Most of these comments about the map before the replay were obviously made given the fact he knows how the match played out. Also why are you accusing me of believing he's stupid. I believe he misplayed and learned from it, that's hardly stupid at all. Meanwhile you made a mocking comment about it.
It's a while, but you,Mangs, played against a Grimm player a year ago... The donut guy just comeback ( i know it's not the same player, i'm talking about the CO) with a vengeance. XD
Do you think AWBW could use a "generic" CO with no day2days and no (super)powers or a very generic one? Because the more you take away form the day2days and powers, the more the true meat of tactics/positioning decides the game. ofc this CO would only make sense in mirror matches to test raw skill against each other.
Looked like a 800 vs a 1400 player, at that point no handicap will help. You have +2 movement on scop which means you position 2 places away from his reach while threatening him. You don't need to move up in his range to apply pressure, you even spoke about this very thing yet you did the exact opposite in your game play. Better ask Deej to play the match up to see if grim guy can overcome the handicap. I really dont want to sound offensive writing all of this because it does seem that way, but sorry Mangz it just be that way.
You were laughing. Grimm wondered where his units went and you were laughing...
Now HE is the one laughing.
Mangs stealing his own username is the most Mangs thing I've heard today.
Grimm Guy loves donuts.
and by "donuts" he means his opponents after he's done punching a big hole in the middle of 'em.
Beautiful! ❤
Deserves the pin!
Grimm Guy want blood he kill fast All die fast :D
Luffy dislikes this comment
Kung Pow! Enter the Fist (2002)
best movie of all time
Playing knuckle duster instead of haymaker was such a genius move
Mangs moved in, full force, thinking he would take a break, but actually, the second knuckle duster was already half full for the retaliation
To be fair, Mangs didn't listen to his own advice; you can't make a wall against Grimm. If he had made backup reinforcements, which the Grimm player was very careful of, the match would at least take longer
I agree. Adder's super basically put all his units in a range of Grim's reinforcements, who then charged in and slaughtered him. I think in principle, Adder is a potential counter, but in practice, it's a bit more difficult to make that extra movement count if the action is compact enough. Grim just sacrificed enough of his tanks to make it seem worthwhile, while Mangs had just been hit with a knuckle duster. This map is a perfect Grim Map, because Adders Speed matters much less on compact maps with clearly defined lanes. No one hits harder than Grim units coming off his supply line.
Double-knuckle Duster is just devastating. Especially given that, thanks to the Battle Copter, Grim had control over the game's pace. Mangs had to respond to his battle chopper and had fewer tanks overall.
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 Grimm used Adder's mobility against him. With Sidewinder he rushed all his units to the frontline where they were ripe for his counter move.
@@ZorotheGallade aye, or to be more precise, Grim was aleady winning the positional game, in both the map choice and having a more aggressive load out. Mangs didn’t build a battle copter, Grim did. Therefore Grim was never really on the defensive, didn’t waste credits on AA. I kinda feel that’s what it boiled down to.
Which is really easy for a armchair tactician to say, but I’m glad Mangs had put out these games to enjoy. ^^
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 Yeah, it really started feeling that way when Mangs commented on having to commit two AAs to keep a single copter in check, which is already a huge resource disadvantage.
Grimm is like playing Age of Empires; I tend to single wide units against scorpions, but with grimm he's got that scorpion off to the left and right shooting at me at all sides instead of the obvious. who needs a mangonel when out witting your opponent when they least expected scorpions. i know RTS Vs TBS isn't really a good analogy, but outsmarting is definately both barrels.
Egg challenges Yakuza Boss ~2023 colorized
I’m betting on Grimm guy
You Will need sturm or hatchi to beat him, good luck
Or ader
@@annakarollunaeu
sturn...?
@@Broockle 20% defence for 30% extra atack,also meteor Striker, remember?
@@annakarollunaeu the Man behind Sturms mask is Grimm guy
4:35 Stories like this prove that Andy is Mangs' spirit animal. Talented in some ways, yes but.. He has his bad moments.
Trust no one, not even yourself
Dangs stole Mangs' account.
Didn't build enough battle copters. It's like he doesn't even know what an airport is.
@@YourFunkiness clearly you haven't seen his match against incugarch.
It was the wrong decision, but he did build a ton of them, it was very funny.
@@Santisima_Trinidad Yeah, but he didn't build many in this match, and someone said Andy is his spirit animal, so I commented about him not knowing what an airport is.
GrimmGuy the good gamer from Google donated 2$ through superchat:
"You'll never win mangs"
Guys, Grimm Guy is Grimm Guy, don't be so blind, its pretty clear to me that they have the same playstyle
7:17 Yes, recons are banned on this very map. Just going early recon on centre base and even 1b side can reach contested areas faster than tanks can. And they can do a lot of damage as early recons.
Took me a bit of reading to see how deadly it can be.
Side note, commentary coming later, even though I never played on this map.
not a fan of bannign units. shows weak thinking to do so. just make a counterplay
@@Revkor I guess it's just flawed map design
@@VivaLaRazsa not really ... if recons are so good why not make them yourself instead of bitching? It is stupid that you ban unit that just perform well. Lets ban naval units on naval map because obviously they may perform well lol. So what if battle copter will be good on certain map then you ban it ? Why not ban infantry completely because they tend to be good on all maps ;x ... , Revkor is 100% right.
Also somehow noone has problems with tanks being good and countering them with your ... own tanks. Yeah I know shocking.
Map is fine, community failed completely on that one. There will be always units that perform somewhat better than others due to various factors in certain conditions.
@@Mario-kf3ej I am no expert, but it may be the case that player 1 has a significant advantage bc they can make their recons first. Usually, player 2 gets a handicap like one pre-deployed infantry or one extra property very close to player 1 so that player 2 gets a couple thousand extra income, but that may not be enough on this map without recons banned.
@@j-rey- if starting first in chess would make idk Bishop too strong, would you remove Bishop from game ?
Look to make it straight - I'm not saying Recon isn't OP on this map . I'm not arguing with this directly. What I'm saying is "deal with it" - instead of robbing game from its features for some artificial "justice". Sure players can do as they please. But it may slowly but surelly lead to banning many other units "overperforming" somewhere.
Diverse units on map are amazing to watch and use. Cutting options is never good thing. Especially for those who would benefit from them most.
Thing is people forget that this game is unfair to begin with - someone is going to start first ,both players can't. And in 99% of situations games are not mirrors. Different CEO instantly make game somewhat "unfair" and imbalanced. But isn't that part of game beauty ? To play around your weakness and strenghts ? Taking off this Recon is sign of weakness of players not map.
"This is a strategy I call [...] or maybe it was just a bad move"
Mangs
The GRIMM REAPER strikes again!
Grimm's playstyle seems to be build a ton of tank/infantry and scale defensively and if the the opponent makes a slight mistake capitalize on it and having so much fire power he can snowball like crazy if he gets any really good singular turns or a lot of decent turns, downside is he has to play to near perfection
Mangs: 'I'm going to use the account name I made as a teenager because the account name I made as an adult sounds like something a teenager would use'
"Hey, somebody stole my name! And to make it worse, they suck!"
"Sir, that's your account."
"Oh."
This game was so good.
the way your opponent countered adder's superior speed through always having a reserve ready to counterattack was really impressive
15:15 This is what I think Mangs was trying to explain.
Imagine you have an AA on a city. In front of you are 6 plain tiles, a forest and a mountain tile all in a row. The enemy B-Copter sits on the mountain. You might think its in range of a slideslip, but youre wrong. Even though its 8 tiles away, and your AA hits the forest without a power, you still can't traverse the forest without a SCOP. However, it's easy to mistake it as in range of a power because it seems like it's only one extra tile away.
That is due to fact that you "pay" movement when entering tile, so if the "next tile" is a forest, you won't gain any bonus movement. As a map maker, this is something you use to double slow with only one forest. if the forest is at exactly 6 tile away from a base, a tank won't be able to enter the tile, hence moving only 5 tiles, then next turn it still has to enter it for 2 move cost. this also allows for tank and Arty to land on the same tile.
This phenomena is reinforced with recons and other wheel movement units since forests cost 3.
Should've made a Battle Copter of his own instead. Slightly more expensive than an AA, yes. However, Grimm's units are made of paper, and BC mirror matchups are far more exaggerated in favor of first strikes than Tanks or Infantry. If a BC even without a firepower boost strikes a Grimm BC first, that BC will have a critical existence failure. He could then keep his BC in reserve and build a few more, making it difficult for Grimm Guy to manage ground and air engagements without having to resort to a Fighter.
@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060 Also B-Copter don't have the forest problem so they fully benefit the +1 movement.
And if Grimm Guy was to build AA in counter, in this case, they would have suffer from the forest.
@Aztum The Knight Of Wumbo oh 1000%. Mangs made a huge blunder when he started building 4 AAs to counter 2 copters. He spent 32K to not even fully counter 18K worth of units. Furthermore, his AAs can't engage the tanks, whereas the copters can.
I know Fluhfee says Copters aren't sufficient air defense, but in this matchup, they are the way to go
@@mavairick Exactly. This map is made to counter movement CO's it seems like. But since Airports are available, it makes sense to use it more, and Mangs did not use it to it's fullest potential at all.
One guy single-handedly changing the whole meta with an underdog CO, now that's where it's at!
*Mangs challenges grimm to a fight*
Grimm guy: *reloading arms gif*
Adder: Mwahaha, my movement shall crush you, puny Grimm!
*Grimm's Theme kicks in*
Adder: ...Why do I hear Boss Music?
Playing against Grimm is basically a battle of who overextends first. Adder can really overextend when he uses his super which makes him super vulnerable to Grimm's knuckles. To play Grimm, you need to be patient and just wait for one wrong move before you dust your knuckles on someone's face. It's about knowing your opponents timings and taking advantage
Mangs known strategy I heard him named so far:
The Scorched Earth - Killing off your opponent's infantries.
Divide and Conquer - Dividing opponent's force with a usage of a blocking unit (usually on choky maps)
I'm betting on the bald one.
GrimmGuy is just lucky that he/she didn’t play against Mangs1337. 😤
Grimm: Huh, where'd my units go? Oh yeah, they went right through yours, I forgot! Hahahaha!
Well, it's one thing to commentate as a third party, and another to be the one facing them. I can imagine a lot of nerves. Timestamps below
0:00 - 3:59 In a vaccum, Adder holds the cards over Grimm. Adder does not need any towers to 2HKO Grimm tanks on cities due to that lower defence and as you said, movement bonuses, so you have a flexibility of attack timing and strategic choice.
The first two decisions made here did not quite tilt things in your favour. It is telling your opponent what CO you're using and then allowing the opponent to choose the map. Now you know why GL randomizes map and hides CO selection before the battle starts. In this case, I am assuming your opponent does not watch your AWBW content and guess what CO you would pick, and I am guessing you want it to be fair for both of you.
Instead, he pick a map that as you pointed out, neutralises Adder's strengths massively. The airport is somewhat more cornered than most (Adder prefers a more forward airport like HT, Celeste and Golden Probe Redux even), but even worse is the base locations, as you find out later. As such, you want to preserve your frontliners and repair them, while destroying your opponent's. And that's how your opponent neutralises your CO's strengths and enhances his own to a degree. (-20% defence will hurt him in preservation, so he has to be tactically and positionally sharp to compensate)
Now I have reviewed 1-2 games here, and despite the rough terrain near the base, tanks are good here as are B Copters. So I am surprised that during your match, you did not build a single B Copter. You can reach 18k on this map, and while you won't reach it unless all properties are captured in parity, it is an important strategic motif in this map. (So capture interrupts or even attacking infantry on cities) Other motifs incluide things like centre control and what to do about the corner towers.
3:59 Match starts here.
5:20 Aside from the capture chain, it appears Grimm Guy knows about the prioritisation of this chain. Sure, his future infantry may need to tower rush, but when his main strategy is to be tank first, this is critical. Quite sure he calculated, his capture order looks similar to DCM v Randomwayz.
7:17 I mentioned previously how early recons are good on this map, as you see later, it took a while for tanks to reach key areas, while a recon is not as slowed due to the number of roads and the + 2 movement that affects later turns.
8:04 Not covered in commentary, but the rear infantry cap is the consequence of not going for the chain first.
8:24 This forward property may have been in your zone, but it's not covered by tanks unless you flank tank deploy. If you plan on considering tank centre deployment, you may want to look at the rear property rather than this one. (Notice how Grimm did not cap this property until later in view of this continuation) Someone else pointed out how damaging this infantry prevented you from going 2T 1 infantry next turn, and I do think that tempo cost and then the free infantry does not justify capping this property rather than the rear centre one.
9:00 Imagine that. Grimm 1T is as powerful as Kindle on cities, it will definitely work out in his favour with a first strike.
10:04 The tank spam fest was what happened in game, but as you saw later, the B Copters have had that greater impact.
11:48 Viewer bug, sadly.
15:48 It does, but this is a guy who knows his positioning chops well. I am sure he has that taken care of now that your tanks are a bit overextended.
14:00 AA is best served as area defence on this map, akin to artillery. That will take a while to come in, you need B Copters for B Copter zoning.
15:06 It's a problem of most forest placements. And snow and rain, somewhat.
16:38 Think I am more surprised here that despite that neutral prop being closer to your base, it is still neutral. And now Grimm guy is taking the property that is meant to be contested, but is now unopposed.
19:46 I think you forgot here that this Grimm prefers Knuckleduster. So I doubt the Adder Super works longer term.
20:22 It's not looking good when your opponent has the infantry advantage in what should be your area on the top left, and that you need to drag 2 AAs there to clean up. Now his B Copters have free reign, and his tanks have free real estate elsewhere.
21:01 6%-7%+14-16$+ 66-75% is not a kill even in the best luck rolls. On that note, I saw a better movement order on review. The AA nearby would have surely killed the 2HP tank and then your other AA would be in a better position. Might get them wiped, but it would be slightly better for you.
21:33 It's a wall, but it is an overextended wall that gives their rear tanks a single purpose that they would not have otherwise. Bottom right engagements... I can't say this is good for you long term since that is relatively a contested area. In about 2-3 turns this won't look good for you.
22:08 Yep, with that, it's over. After the ensuing turn, centre and right front has collapsed. The comm tower base tank has the most difficult decision of its life there.
22:40 Match ends here.
This is the definition of "Oh Call an ambulance, call ambulance!"
*Activates Knuckles duster*
But not for me!
Damn, that was short and sweet. I think it's really interesting to see how Grimm Guy does his tactics, and I'd love to see more. It's a unique flavor of AWBW I think, and really makes you think! GGs!
You can't fool me Mangs, I know you're Grimm guy and are playing against yourself here.
Fights grimm guy.
Dies.
Mangs letting Grimm first strike his army with a full bar really was his biggest mistake I have to say.
Well, this got really Grimm, really fast.
This was really fun, please get more Grimm guy. It is so cool seeing him subvert the traditional opinion that Grimm is a bad CO pretty much universally.
Grimm Guy is so good at unit placement and movement (footwork for short). Great footwork is what sets you up for them knuckles to land hard.
Grimm has had it with everyone smack talking him, he's now flipping the tables, showing how he really fights! it was a ruse from the start, his weaker units were to bait everyone all along.
If I wasn't so lazy, I would make the Mangs1337 vs Mangs name situation into a zoolander meme (Mangs1337 turns around and sees Mangs walking around with the name he wanted to have)
I'll help create the atmosphere:
If you see us in the 𝓬𝓵𝓾𝓫, we'll be acting 𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓵 𝓷𝓲𝓬𝓮
If you see us on the 𝓯𝓵𝓸𝓸𝓻, you'll be watching 𝓪𝓵𝓵 𝓷𝓲𝓰𝓱𝓽
Yeah that was a bit of a smackdown. Probably not incugarch since they didn't use very many artillery 🤣
Past Mangs stopping future Mangs to log in 🤣
Irony: "Mangs is the account I made 14 years ago and forgot about"
"Mangs1337 sounds like an account a 14 year old would make"
Actual account a 14 year old made: Mangs
It's so relatable that you forgot you had an account on AWBW. I went to make an account today and found my preferred username taken. It was me I took the username.
i need more grimm guy replay commentaries there really fun to watch and understand how he plays
8:33 You're underestimating that hit on the infantry a bit. It also put you below 15k requiring a base skip to build double tank that turn. Delayed a Tank that could counter Grimm's tank on left side base or defend your right side base.
9:58 Moving the injured Inf next to the neutral city. Would be covered better by your tanks. The Grimm tank has to move further from the right side base. Taking some pressure off your com tower if Grimm decided to finish off the infantry. Which help a bit since you only had 1 infantry defending com tower vs Grimm's 3
Grimm guy knock dusted that egg into a omelette
Mangs is clearly a Timelord.
Mangs: Let's leverage the +1 movement power to strike all of his stuff first hard-countering them.
Also Mangs: Let's trade our units because if he strikes my units first I can strike him back. Also hold onto the power.
Grimm Guy: Oh look free trades while I day-to-day into my regular power spam :)
Loving this new AW arc 😂
you baited yourself. I mean you played adder in order to have the movement advantage and than you place your whole army into range for him to first strike with his power no less
Well, let’s just say that battle was pretty damn hype. I felt like you had him for a few minutes, but that raw power at the end of the match, damn Grimm is underrated. Good try egg, that was a pretty fun match to walk.
Awesome! Respect to Mangs for challenging this Madlad.
Forgetting that you made your own account is such a classic Mangs move
I actually love playing Grimm, but I definitely have a tendency to meat grind my units. Did decently well against a Grit in a high funds match, but eventually got zoned by battleships
That ending blow splitting your army literally in half. Ooooft.
Mangsder tought he and his speed was luring him but it was Grimm the one luring him. 😮
grimm guy lives up to the co's lightning grimm nickname so much that he makes the commentary videos about his matches much shorter than the rest
Even against Grimm trying to do a staggered formation seems risky; where you literally have to literally think steps ahead. even being a movement CO is all fine and dandy, but it seems when you've got a CO that's not only "reckless" with a -20% defense, but during smart placements, that 130% is just insane. being a hybrid of AW1 Sturm and Max is just crazy enough that Grimm has been thrown under the radar because people just think of him as a meme; when reality that -20% defense has put him into a different light and position of play that EVERYONE not just the grimm player needs to do; and i find that awesome.
You could say the situation is looking Grimm
I believe Grimm's power is much better than his super, since most of the time you get enough firepower with the power, you can pop it a lot more and most importantly it gives you a 10% defence bonus which almost counteracts grimm's weakness.(-10% def is a lot better than -20%)
Man, I'd love to see a game on AWBW where you just copy your opponents opener 1 for 1 for the first 5 or so turns until the big mid melee begins haha. Who needs map knowledge when you have the replay function!
Wouldnt you just give them a first strike advantage in doing so?
You didn't build a single battlecopter, Grimm didn't need to deploy any anti air at all, so of course he was going to outnumber you with his tanks.
Biggest shock is Mangs didn't end up being Grimm Guy himself in the end ...
Vs other Grimm players: where did your units go?
Vs Grimm Guy: where did my units go?
11:20 not divide and conquer, that's splitting your enemies and making them fight each other. This is more like Defeat In Detail (isolate and destroy units with local superiority) using Interior Lines (being able to move back and forth more easily from a central base)
Instant classic. Thanks for the match!
16:07 or, you know, some b-copters of your own ;)
Dangs vs Mangs
Grimm is wondering where all your units went
Mangs is Grimm Guy. Beats himself for the content. Mangs, Mangs1337 and Dangs are all shenanigans to conceal his real game.
that would mean that he plays well, and i can't believe that.
God, I love Grimm's theme so fucking much.
We're all Grimm Guy, deep in our hearts.
Mangs playing against Lelouch having some fun in AW.
Well, that means GrimmGuy isn't Mangs.
And they SAY change your passwords often!
Clearly, mangs password was strong enough and memorable, even a decade later!
Mangs: "Battle copter are incredible on this map"
*Doesn't build a single copter, as Adder*
It's almost like the commentary is 3 days after the match and he learned something about a map he doesn't know well.
@@grampaseri Mangs is not new to AWBW he can see when copter are viable or not, you believe he is that stupid ? Even then he knows that if is copter attack Grimm copter first he'll gain the upper hand easily.
@@DarkOrderSolDjango Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to miss an opportunity choosing what units to build or to underestimate the terrain. Most of these comments about the map before the replay were obviously made given the fact he knows how the match played out. Also why are you accusing me of believing he's stupid. I believe he misplayed and learned from it, that's hardly stupid at all. Meanwhile you made a mocking comment about it.
The account... Trust no one, not even yourself...
Lol that thumbnail is literally me when trying to beat final front on classic mode 😂
CALL AN AMBULANCE! .... BUT NOT FOR GRIMM!
It was a good match. You both had your own advantages, you had a Co advantage but he had the map advantage. It was a fantastic fight!
I also think, taking the com tower wouldn't have m-adder-ed. Game looked fin though und xD
Ah... shrekt...
Defo do MORE with this guy!!!
Can’t wait to see Grimm Guy challenge the top of standard
Mangs I see you. You just wanted to do some seal clubbing
Grimm Guy: Your superpower must be invisibility because your units keep disappearing. My superpower is WINNING!!!
Grimm Guy: It's time to break a bitch...
HELLLLLL YEAH, MORE GRIMM GUY!!!
Grimm Guy: Where did my units go? Ah yes.
*Right up your face*
I wanna see Grimm guy vs Drake guy now
Watch out for that Grimmfantry
A match where Mangs doesn't play Kindle? Impossible!
Kindle is his 6th used CO and Adder is his favorite, what are you on about?
On his main account he played Kindle a total of 24 compared to the 22 as Adder.
@@rance2799 you say impossible like that isn't basically a 50 split ☠️
Eh, it was more of a joke because he's been playing Kindle for the past 3? Or so videos.
@@rance2799 my fault then. guess Kindle became bro waifu. Kantbei alt
It's a while, but you,Mangs, played against a Grimm player a year ago... The donut guy just comeback ( i know it's not the same player, i'm talking about the CO) with a vengeance. XD
Hooooleeeey shite, absolute devastation..
Do you think AWBW could use a "generic" CO with no day2days and no (super)powers or a very generic one? Because the more you take away form the day2days and powers, the more the true meat of tactics/positioning decides the game. ofc this CO would only make sense in mirror matches to test raw skill against each other.
There is already an option to create games where CO powers and D2D abilities are disabled.
dayum this guy changes the meta
My prediction: Grimm is going to turn the battle by locking down a key area or unit (like a comm tower) and it's all going to go downhill from there.
...wow, that went beyond my expectation. His copter fluttered like a butterfly, his tanks stung like bees.
My money is on Grimm but my money is on ultimate disrespect
Looked like a 800 vs a 1400 player, at that point no handicap will help. You have +2 movement on scop which means you position 2 places away from his reach while threatening him. You don't need to move up in his range to apply pressure, you even spoke about this very thing yet you did the exact opposite in your game play. Better ask Deej to play the match up to see if grim guy can overcome the handicap. I really dont want to sound offensive writing all of this because it does seem that way, but sorry Mangz it just be that way.
Spoilers" Grimm guy it the bigger brother of that grimm player that did not know where his units went
A battlecopter might be nice instead of 3 antiairs.
What sort of passives could Adder be given that wouldn't break him or throw off his playstyle?
I feel like adders extra movement does not really do anything unless you can force your opponent to play into it.
You were trying to bait him, but in the end he baited you.