I'm sorry, but we don't need a game 7 moment in Auto Racing. It either naturally happens, or someone deserving locks it up early. God forbid the sport feel legitimate. Just do 36 races, season long points, make a bigger spread for 1st place points than the old winston system had to reward a win a bit more, and then QUIT TRYING TO RE-INVENT THE WHEEL
Couldn’t agree more. They could tweak the points you get for every position, and like you said the winner needs to get more than they used to over 2nd place. If the 1st place driver runs away with the championship, so be it. If it were the old system this year, I think I saw that Elliott would have a 13 point lead over Bell going into the final race. How great would that be!
If this was a full season points system Winston Cup Style there would be 5 drivers with a mathematical shot to win the title. 1. Chase Elliott 2 Christopher Bell -13 3. Tyler Reddick -78 4. William Byron -95 5. Kyle Larson - 143
Instead of 10 races, have 36. Instead of 16 eligible drivers, have 36 or so eligible drivers. Remove win and your in, and have most points be the determining factor for the champ. Simple, easy to understand, straightforward.
@@herbbarber2583 Simple answer. Whoever has accumulated the most points at the end of the season wins the championship. Get rid of these stupid playoffs and chase system entirely. Being a champion now a days means absolutely nothing with these micky mouse playoffs.
@@charlesrussell6201 Champion means you were the best and most consistent all season. Why would I want the "champion" to be decided by a single race? There is no integrity in that... If you are a race fan you watch because you love racing not to know who the champ is. Who cares if the champion is decided early because they rightfully deserve it? Id rather the best and most consistent driver across every track actually win the championship. Instead of whoever is better out of 4 Micky mouse drivers at Phoenix.
No, Never WINSTON rules ever again. Who the hell wants to know who the Champion is with remaining races still to be ran. And the possibility a winless driver could be the champion.
@charlesrussell6201 you must have started watching recently because that was not a regular occurrence. In fact the only one I can recall that’s won a championship without winning a race was Austin Dillon in 2014. Alll you’re saying is you don’t want the best car and the best driver to win. Which doesn’t make any sense. You talk of winless drivers but if Blaney or Lagano win they become statistically the worst champion in NASCSR history, so in all your entire argument is self contradictory. Educate yourself
@@Nascar4ever2311 Total BS History rewrite. No driver has ever won the Championship without winning a race, especially Austin Dillon. Matt Kenseth came the closest...winning one race in 2003. My post referred to "knowing who the Champion would be with 1 to 3 races left in the season". ...BTW...my first race was in 1951 at the Daytona 'Beach' course with my dad and all the beach races through 1958. I've been to every track East of the Mississiippi except Pocono. And I consider the present Format to be the best and most definitely the most exciting Format ever. I remember when ...60s-70s...no one particularly paid much attention to who won the year's Champion. It paid mere thousands of dollars during those decades. The 2024 Championship will pay out over $11,000,000.
@@charlesrussell6201that’s simply not true. And Austin Dillion won the xfinity/nationwide championship in 2014 without a win. You’re just delusional. Like I said the cases you’re describing are an anomaly. What you want is a delegitimized, gimmicky, manufactured drama of a championship like what we get now. Theres no need for you to lie
Other racing series that don’t use a playoff system still have great racing. And if a driver wins a championship in a runaway, they should be rewarded for their consistency, plain and simple. I also watch MotoGP (totally different than NASCAR, I know!). They’ve had a close championship battle all season with no playoff format. The guy leading the championship has 3 wins all year. The guy in 2nd has won 10 races all year, but has been way too inconsistent. Consistency is key and that’s the way it should be.
True, take F1 as an example. But they have more than a third less races, so it's hard to win it too early. And team orders are fine. As a fan of both, I think if NASCAR wants to keep 40 damn races, then the original Chase format is the best compromise to keep the last part of the season relevant. But then again, it's hard to watch these days for me no matter what because I'm of the generation of personalities. Too many kids, too many drivers that don't belong at the elite level of American racing. I think there is a reason other than Netflix why F1 is taking off in the US. They have a shorter, more meaningful schedule. Shorter, more meaningful, commercial free (at least in the US) races, and a mix of grizzled vets and younger guys all of whom have earned their way and not paid their way... nevermind on that last point lol
I will keep this short. 70 yr old from Oregon. 50 yr fan. Never miss a race. Been to 15 cup races, got all the merch. Being a fan has been a big part of my life. Very loyal to Chevrolet. I have watched the changes in NASCAR as it ascends to the top of all racing series. It as been great however, when you have rules and don't respect or enforce them then how do you think the teams look at the Leaders of the company they work for. They dont. This last weekend at Martinsville shows you what they think of your rules. I never thought this would happen in my lifetime but I'm not gonna stick around and watch your decline. If my buddy's still watch and tell me there have been good changes then I may return. If not then thank you for the past 50 yrs.
NASCAR used to be about reliability and strong performances from the drivers. It sold cars. Having the "win and you're in" destroyed all of that. You could have a driver dominate the entire season but never be able to win at tracks like Phoenix. He will never become a NASCAR Champion. Martin Truex Jr. would never win the championship if the year's final race was at a superspeedway.
Don't give up my friend we need you guys to ride this out ...I race late models and absolutely love this sport as a younger man I looked up to dale Sr jr gordon Stewart they all seen this coming ..if we all stop and nascar officially goes away what does my son and there generation have to strive to get too.. Change is needed big time
My single biggest complaint, and what would probably be the single easiest fix, is the one race championship finale. I think that’s where a lot of the claims about consistency not mattering comes from, because your entire season is dependent on the luck of one race. It’d be like the MLB or NBA having 5 and 7-game series through the postseason only for the World Series / Final to be only one game. Or the NFL playing through the entire postseason only for the Super Bowl to be one quarter. We just need the championship round to be three races. (Obviously a win doesn’t “advance” you, but maybe gives a few extra points). The points battle to the finish would still always be close and entertaining, but it wouldn’t be a crap-shoot of a single race to determine the season-long Champion.
27 minutes isn’t a long conversation when there are many people who have a say in thing, and it’s a sign that Nascar cared enough that they listened to what those people had to say about it before making the call. They wanted to hear what their people had to say, awesome. Yeah and great point Amy, would Bell have done that without the Chastain move? And the bad thing about it, Bell you had it bud, you didn’t need to do that Wallace had nothing to gain by charging back to pass you, and as a Toyota driver he’d surely been aware of your situation, an act of gentlemanly agreement in racing, and that’s a thing. Dang Bell, lesson might be He has some anxiety and rushed decision making habits he needs to slow down and take more time when he get in trouble or situations, oh yeah I remember he had struggled for a while when he’d start in a good spot, top 10, the race starts and so did the bleeding, and he could not stop it. Slow down refocus and what you got to do. Charles Leclerc same thing he did that this weekend at Brazil saved his tires too and didn’t lose the spot driver behind him choose to tuck in didnt over or give him the chance thre turns later cause of tire wear. I am a race car and I know these things bruh!
This is the lowest average finish for a championship 4 ever with a 14.95 average finish. If I had to choose a final 4 based off consistency it will be Bell, Elliott, Reddick, and Larson. If we still had Winston Points it can be a true championship race with Christopher Bell with a 34 point lead on Tyler Reddick similar to how Jimmie Johnson had the championship locked up in the chase era for example 2006 (and that was with a points reset).
Larson had 6 wins...he deserved to be in the final 4. What good does it do to win more races than anyone and not be rewarded for it by an automatic final 4? He could win 11 races all season and be knocked out by a putz like logano and blaney...doesnt make sense
While many other sports include a playoff system and a final championship game, the Premier League team with the most points (three for a win and one for a tie) at the end of the season is crowned the champion.
Love having Amy there but it is totally Ok if Junior goes on a monologue for 5-10 minutes. Junior knows the issues and we have been waiting since Sunday to know what he thinks.
TV cameras need to pan out and more drone shots. Best race last year was Nashville and DW was a guest in the booth and mentioned that the TV fans are not getting the sense of speed because of the tight shots on a single car or two. We don’t need to be able to read the decals on the leaders A-Posts the whole race. Pan out! We wanna see more of the action on our 70” HDR TV’s.
Agreed! I took my son to his first race this year. He's now into watching it with me, however, he's made comments that it doesn't look like they're going fast when watching it on TV. His mind was totally blown seeing it in person. The TV crew needs to do a better job! And boy do I miss DW in the booth!
@ I think Prime Vision, coming next year with may solve this. They offer two versions of the TFB football games. I watched the Prime Vision instead of the traditional broadcast lastnight and it was awesome. Hopefully they do the same for NASCAR.
I agree. We came down from Canada to Daga the year there was a drafting agreement for most of the race.We had locals apologizing for such a boring race . It was neat to see four cars going two hundred miles an hour around the track but not really what we came down to see.
The amount of people I've heard say that Byron is innocent is hilarious, you can't be foolish enough to believe that he/HMS weren't in those Chevy meetings where "the plan" was discussed.
I'd like to do the 10-race Chase Format WITH eliminations. BUT no points reset, those 10 races are a race for the championship but you still eliminate drivers every 3rd race. Championship race is still based on points, not who finishes ahead of the others.
The point system needs to go back like it used to be when your dad raced and they need to get rid of the damn stages. These cars is supposed to be the future. Supposed to be so awesome. Can they not go a whole race without having to have a break or will they just blow up? I mean what are we doing here? I've been watching this my whole life. Just about this is ridiculous
It took him so long to make the decision because they did not want two Toyotas and two Fords only in the championship for. I'm a Chevrolet man but I don't think the right Chevrolet got in Larson needs to be in there
we can all agree on wanting the full season points format back, but i don't think going back to the Latford system is the solution, people look at it now with rose tinted glasses but forget how often it was criticized for rewarding "a good points day" over race wins, the current points format is actually pretty good, it rewards both wins and consistency, it just needs a few tweaks and it would be ready for a full season
2035 Nascar will be two teams of 18 cars each, and one owner will be Hendrick and the other will be Nameless Corporation of Invested Private Equities, and they'll just be allowed to come up with "plays" for the last 10 laps.
I can’t believe Jr is trying to play off the “not helping unless it helps me” when he described how he refused to push Mike Skinner or pull up in front of his dad when he was coming on the outside. 😂🤣😂😁
One person we’ve got to give props to is Jimmy Spencer. He and Steve Burns were asked about team orders in 2010, before spin and before the playoff format was even conceived. Nobody knew what NASCAR would think of it at the time, but the idea of team orders coming into the sport was not apocryphal.
Just an idea... Regular season (26 races) with 10 signature events. (daytona, Charlotte, darlington, indy, road course, 5 wildcards). If you win a signature event you automatically make the playoffs. Win and your in does not apply for any other race during regular season. Playoffs (top 16 make it (2 rounds). First four races are win and you make the next round. After race four there is a cut off. Top 8 or top 10 make the final round. Last 6 races are purely on points to crown a champion. I think this would be a good compromise for fans vs. TV deals. Any changes/suggestions are welcome
There was blatant race manipulation during the Winston Cup era. Prime example; in 1993 Dale Sr. Could only not finish last place to win the championship. RCR fielded a second car with Neil Bonnet driving with the intent to start the race and retire. It was reported before the race.
The 2004-2013 chase was the perfect balance of adding late season drama while retaining legitimacy, I would love to see that come back, but if that happens it will be sad to see all of the champions of the last 10 years be looked at as less legitmate, but it's honestly the truth.
Do you think Chastain would say no to Chevy? Look how hard he had to fight to get here. Chevy would pull all support and screw his career. Damn Bubbas car was out of shape because he was riding in the marbles trying to slow down for 20 car to pass. I hate bubba but at least he wasn’t thrilled to do it. Damn you want to hurt the driver that didn’t want to do it. Suspended the crew chief and owners
I was a long time fan of NASCAR during the old points system, and attended races at eight different tracks over the years. But the sport lost me after it went to a playoff system. Under the old system, the best team won the championship every year. It was simple and fair. Racing was still great to watch because every race was important to every team on the track, even if that team was way out of the points competition. Now the playoff system emphasizes just a few teams. IMHO, big issues with NASCAR go back to Brian France wanting to make NASCAR compete with football. For NASCAR, having a playoff system and the championship based upon the team that survives the playoff rounds seemed hokey. And to this former fan, it honestly is a less valid a way to crown a championship. I remember hearing Denny Hamlin once say he would rather win races than the championship. And I agree. Years ago, NASCAR came to a cross roads where they had to decide whether they wanted to be a sport or simply entertainment. They chose the wrong path when they chose to go the entertainment route. As a sport, NASCAR was already very entertaining without being manipulated like it is now just to put on a show. I held season tickets for years at Talladega and all the people around me were the same each year until one year, nearly every seat around me was occupied by corporate guests who knew nothing about the sport and spent most of their time getting obnoxiously drunk. I kept my tickets one more year and that was it for me. These were the people NASCAR chose too go after at the expense of their long time and loyal fan base. The playoff format is a symptom of what is really wrong with NASCAR. The France family reaps enormous profits while teams are forced to scrounge around to find enough sponsorship dollars to run each year. Equitable revenue sharing would go a long way to changing the financial power structure and perhaps would lessen the pressure for teams to "fix" race out comes. Just my $.02 rant from an old fan.
Absolutely right. NASCAR take so much cash out of the sport whilst they run it like a clown show. The play offs are so flawed, especially win and you're in. If you are going to have play offs then the British Superbikes way makes sense. Top 8 have 6 weekends 18 races points race with double points in last weekend and leader on points before play offs has a start. It works. NASCAR need a top 10 or top 8 points play off for last 6 or 8 races with double points at the end. Stop the win and you're in and the eliminations. Hamiln had 3 good finishes without the win and he's out yet Logano who's been weak and relied on furl saving or ludicrous overtime shenanigans. Bad for sport if 22 wins championship.
Junior just. Prove my case that Ross throttled it in and drove into the wall and held it.That is not what bell did.I am not a bell fan , but that's not what bell did ..Bell loss 😊control and hit the wall. And turned hard left and held it hard left and throttle to get off the wall. Junior just agreed that if you're out of the groove in the turns it's like ice and you can't turn and move.
In south America we add weight to top 3 finishers every race. If the next race you are 7th or worst you take out the weight. And the final race the points are X1.5. So if the winner on the regular season get 30 points for a win the final winner gets 45 and so on. We got always a last race definition between 3 or 4 drivers, even more. Game 7 vibes every time.
Chris Bell didn’t even do it on purpose… you can see he got loose around that 23. I guess he should have tried to get off sooner but easier said than done. Position wasn’t affected, I think he should be in that final 4.
I agree with you Dale…. there should be some ground rules… but I also don’t see a problem with team or manufacture orders… as long they don’t wreck someone else intentionally… F1 has team orders all the time… it adds intrigue… drama… strategy…
31:50 The hem-haw-ing -- love that!~ And that has almost become expected out of NCAR, so yet another change won't hurt as bad as not fixing the problem (assuming NCAR even thinks it's a problem - and likely do not), and going back to an older format could signal to the fans(viewers) that they might get what they hope for - a real championship measuring stick.
Stock car drivers have been using the car to their outside or the wall/rail when necessary since the beginning of the sport. It’s called racing!! Ross C took it to the extreme (my hats still off to him). Sundays incident was obviously not done with intent. PS Manufacturers have been effecting to race results since the beginning as well…
Sorry Dale but the only solution was to keep the 20 and 24 out. Put the 5 in the championship 4 because he was the next in points. Suspend drivers 1, 3, and 23 for phoenix. Fine all the spotters, owners, and crew chiefs a large amount.
The blue/yellow is for lap down cars in the way of lead lap cars. If you are "blocking" for position its just racing. ***** this is in no way support for what happened****** I am jist stating fact
What got Nascar where it is today. The old Winston system with the cream coming to the top for all the races. If I wanna watch baseball, I'll watch baseball....bring back the old style with the Earnhardt's, Petty's, Allison's, Gordons and all of the excitement of a year worth of driver's striving to be the most consistent. Just make wins worth way more than finishing 2nd. Man that's when Nascar was fun, cool and exciting!
My only gripe with the whole thing is this.....yes, Bell's move is illegal according to the rulebook, but it was on the last lap. He was forced into doing something desperate because the Chevrolets played rolling roadblock for 20 laps....if they don't manipulate that, bell doesn't need to do anything at all
I agree with the call they made on Bell however what is considered “unsafely riding the wall”? Is that a length or an amount of time “riding” the wall because looking at Bell, he could have made a argument that he was sucked into the wall and as he was powering off, he could not get off it!?!
Add more races at the end. Do like three rounds of four races, last round is four races so champ is based on points…regular season winner and driver with most wins automatically get in the final round.
So, what about bringing back the 10 race chase for the top 16. No one gets eliminated, but if a chase driver wins a race, they get a "bonus" of say...20 extra points on top of the normal points win. Winning will be worth more, but consistency will still be rewarded. Keep the same 10 races, they do a great job sampling the other 26. But...NASCAR is sliding more towards entertainment than trying to choose an ideal points/championship format.
Bell call was the right call, he didn't advance his position, but riding the wall kept him from losing positions which would have knocked him out. I think that's what took so long was determining if it changed the outcome and it clearly did.
The way the chase is set up now is for the new fans, young fans, and fans that don't have a favorite driver. If you did some research and reported back I guarantee all those people would like it and if your driver made it through, those people would like it. Most people complaining are fans of drivers who never make the playoffs or got knocked out early. The other group would be the old heads who don't like change. If Nascar went back to the way it was Nascar would lose most of the fans that watch because of the excitement of the chase. Everything has to change. If you are 30 years old or below more than likely you want instant action, satisfaction, etc. Also Nascar listens to Sponsors. If I sponsored a team I would love if they made the playoffs. The camera is on those 16 cars constantly
There was a major difference between Chastain and Bell. Chastain took his hands off the wheel and gunned it using centrifugal force to stay against the wall. Bell, on the other hand, got loose and hit the wall. However, he was turning the steering wheel left as hard as he could to get off the wall. Watch the in car cameras on both drivers.
No matter what when the guy with double the wins is not in the final 4 there is a problem an not just larson kevin Harvick got screwed 1 yr wins should be the most valued thing thats y they are all there to win
Late day Tuesday NASCAR dropped the hammer on all the teams mentioned.$s and points plus suspension for spotters/team executives.Every one of course appealing penalties.Glad NASCAR reacted:not sure it will be enough to curtail future race results interference. Happy Harvick had a great idea for a future championship playoff format on his show today;hopefully NASCAR was listening (had merit:interesting idea)
Top 8 playoff drivers race begins the final set of races (playoff 8) so last 4 races accumulated points for the championship. 2024 racetrack playoff example would be Las Vegas, Homestead, Martinsville, Phoenix. 16 - 9 places playoff ranked before the final 4 playoffs races get to race for a separate title within the same races. That is my idea. Heck even add a couple of non-playoff drivers to the 2nd tier who race well during the previous rounds of playoff races.
That gives the championship 4 race series a total of 18 drivers to race for something other than just a race win. Instead of just 4 drivers in a final single race.
As long there is opportunity to manipulate a race, drivers/teams will do so. The end of Sundays race was definitely a black eye to nascars playoff format. U seen the cars stacking up for no reason and then it made sense.
This would be a big ask with how “big” nascar and all the money involved, but go to a 10 race playoff system, zero eliminations, and let the fans have an influence on the 10 tracks chosen for the playoffs.
Playing out a hypothetical race this weekend....the top qualified playoff driver just gets a bunch of manufacturer "buddies" to line up behind him and block for the whole race. Championship is awarded before the race even starts. Just as bad, let them race until the last 10 laps then have manufacturer put the orders out to get their championship. Each manufacturer has at least one car in so, it could absolutely happen.
This format could work but they need to change it slightly. By making the round of 16 a one race playoff from 10-16. Meaning the top 10 get a one week bye going into the playoffs. Then go 3 races all the way to a championship round 4 drivers 3 races.
They didn't "put Logano in," he got in when the 48 was DQ'd, just like how another driver is awarded a win when the winner doesn't pass tech. Same would be true here if they DQ'd Bell and Byron; Larson would get in on points and actually, because he's been the best driver all season, leading in pretty much every category that matters, it would make the final race seem more legit to me. Not having the best team by far with twice as many race wins, over 500 more laps led and the most stage wins makes the format look bad, so if he's in, there is sort of saving face. I'll be it, minimal since the format stinks. Personally, I don't think they're going to do anything that'll change the Champ 4. It would be so much easier to just ditch the format and go full season again. Keep the stages, but ditch the playoff elimination. Bring back some bonus points for leading and for pole. Make it the hybrid of the newer system and the old one and you've got a winner. Award another 10pts for race winners.
If you want to stop drivers sandbagging to help other drivers, add an alternate bonus (points or money) to sweeten the pot for those late season races.
Pretty sure Blaney was told to stay behind Logano for 2nd place in 2022 to provide a buffer between him and the next championship contender. And he had the car to win. So that stuff can still happen in the final race.
Willy B was the 4th driver in points to start Martinsville. Blaney below the cutoff won. Willy B drove in the top 5 all day and got stage points in both stages and drove his ass off all day to keep the top 5 to leap frog #20 in points. You Can Not take Byron out! He did nothing wrong and everything right, I pick him to win next week.
@@taylorbertrim7625 The Penski Fords ran poorly all year, Blaney ran well at the end of the year, but Lagano has no business being in the championship. Lagano had to half ass his way into jis 2024 wins.
I'm sorry, but we don't need a game 7 moment in Auto Racing. It either naturally happens, or someone deserving locks it up early. God forbid the sport feel legitimate. Just do 36 races, season long points, make a bigger spread for 1st place points than the old winston system had to reward a win a bit more, and then QUIT TRYING TO RE-INVENT THE WHEEL
Couldn’t agree more. They could tweak the points you get for every position, and like you said the winner needs to get more than they used to over 2nd place. If the 1st place driver runs away with the championship, so be it. If it were the old system this year, I think I saw that Elliott would have a 13 point lead over Bell going into the final race. How great would that be!
AMEN!!!
Exactly 100%
Even the game 7 moniker is stupid because most best of 7 series don't go to 7! What if the World Series is a sweep? Silly
A-freakin-men
If this was a full season points system Winston Cup Style there would be 5 drivers with a mathematical shot to win the title.
1. Chase Elliott
2 Christopher Bell -13
3. Tyler Reddick -78
4. William Byron -95
5. Kyle Larson - 143
Potentially more would be in the hunt too because the checkers or wreckers would go out the window if the focus were solely on points
Instead of 10 races, have 36. Instead of 16 eligible drivers, have 36 or so eligible drivers. Remove win and your in, and have most points be the determining factor for the champ. Simple, easy to understand, straightforward.
If Larson wins the most races in a season 10 let’s say, but crashes out in 20 of the other races does that make him a champ?
@@herbbarber2583that question is too vague.
@@herbbarber2583 Simple answer. Whoever has accumulated the most points at the end of the season wins the championship. Get rid of these stupid playoffs and chase system entirely. Being a champion now a days means absolutely nothing with these micky mouse playoffs.
Had that and the then fans complained. Who the hell wants to know who the Champ is who the winner is, before the season is over?
@@charlesrussell6201 Champion means you were the best and most consistent all season. Why would I want the "champion" to be decided by a single race? There is no integrity in that... If you are a race fan you watch because you love racing not to know who the champ is. Who cares if the champion is decided early because they rightfully deserve it? Id rather the best and most consistent driver across every track actually win the championship. Instead of whoever is better out of 4 Micky mouse drivers at Phoenix.
The FIX is simple!
WINSTON POINTS
PRECHASE!!!
No, Never WINSTON rules ever again. Who the hell wants to know who the Champion is with remaining races still to be ran. And the possibility a winless driver could be the champion.
@charlesrussell6201 you must have started watching recently because that was not a regular occurrence. In fact the only one I can recall that’s won a championship without winning a race was Austin Dillon in 2014.
Alll you’re saying is you don’t want the best car and the best driver to win. Which doesn’t make any sense.
You talk of winless drivers but if Blaney or Lagano win they become statistically the worst champion in NASCSR history, so in all your entire argument is self contradictory. Educate yourself
With the Winston points the team with the best year normally won.
A system where the team with the best year rarely wins is stupid.
@@Nascar4ever2311 Total BS History rewrite. No driver has ever won the Championship without winning a race, especially Austin Dillon. Matt Kenseth came the closest...winning one race in 2003. My post referred to "knowing who the Champion would be with 1 to 3 races left in the season". ...BTW...my first race was in 1951 at the Daytona 'Beach' course with my dad and all the beach races through 1958. I've been to every track East of the Mississiippi except Pocono. And I consider the present Format to be the best and most definitely the most exciting Format ever. I remember when ...60s-70s...no one particularly paid much attention to who won the year's Champion. It paid mere thousands of dollars during those decades. The 2024 Championship will pay out over $11,000,000.
@@charlesrussell6201that’s simply not true. And Austin Dillion won the xfinity/nationwide championship in 2014 without a win. You’re just delusional. Like I said the cases you’re describing are an anomaly. What you want is a delegitimized, gimmicky, manufactured drama of a championship like what we get now. Theres no need for you to lie
Other racing series that don’t use a playoff system still have great racing. And if a driver wins a championship in a runaway, they should be rewarded for their consistency, plain and simple.
I also watch MotoGP (totally different than NASCAR, I know!). They’ve had a close championship battle all season with no playoff format. The guy leading the championship has 3 wins all year. The guy in 2nd has won 10 races all year, but has been way too inconsistent.
Consistency is key and that’s the way it should be.
True, take F1 as an example. But they have more than a third less races, so it's hard to win it too early. And team orders are fine. As a fan of both, I think if NASCAR wants to keep 40 damn races, then the original Chase format is the best compromise to keep the last part of the season relevant. But then again, it's hard to watch these days for me no matter what because I'm of the generation of personalities. Too many kids, too many drivers that don't belong at the elite level of American racing. I think there is a reason other than Netflix why F1 is taking off in the US. They have a shorter, more meaningful schedule. Shorter, more meaningful, commercial free (at least in the US) races, and a mix of grizzled vets and younger guys all of whom have earned their way and not paid their way... nevermind on that last point lol
To add to this, when there is a close battle it feels more special that if there is a winner take all every year, just look at F1
Those 27 minutes equal at least three more commercial breaks.
Amy totally makes the show. Glad to see she comes on monthly.
And that Bud shirt looks good on her
This playoff format has been flawed from the get-go. Bring back old school racing!
1:03 I haven't watched too many races since 2016 when my husband died. But I watch you weekly
I will keep this short. 70 yr old from Oregon. 50 yr fan. Never miss a race. Been to 15 cup races, got all the merch. Being a fan has been a big part of my life. Very loyal to Chevrolet. I have watched the changes in NASCAR as it ascends to the top of all racing series. It as been great however, when you have rules and don't respect or enforce them then how do you think the teams look at the Leaders of the company they work for. They dont. This last weekend at Martinsville shows you what they think of your rules. I never thought this would happen in my lifetime but I'm not gonna stick around and watch your decline. If my buddy's still watch and tell me there have been good changes then I may return. If not then thank you for the past 50 yrs.
NASCAR used to be about reliability and strong performances from the drivers. It sold cars. Having the "win and you're in" destroyed all of that. You could have a driver dominate the entire season but never be able to win at tracks like Phoenix. He will never become a NASCAR Champion. Martin Truex Jr. would never win the championship if the year's final race was at a superspeedway.
What happened to keeping it short? 😂
Don't give up my friend we need you guys to ride this out ...I race late models and absolutely love this sport as a younger man I looked up to dale Sr jr gordon Stewart they all seen this coming ..if we all stop and nascar officially goes away what does my son and there generation have to strive to get too..
Change is needed big time
My single biggest complaint, and what would probably be the single easiest fix, is the one race championship finale. I think that’s where a lot of the claims about consistency not mattering comes from, because your entire season is dependent on the luck of one race. It’d be like the MLB or NBA having 5 and 7-game series through the postseason only for the World Series / Final to be only one game. Or the NFL playing through the entire postseason only for the Super Bowl to be one quarter.
We just need the championship round to be three races. (Obviously a win doesn’t “advance” you, but maybe gives a few extra points). The points battle to the finish would still always be close and entertaining, but it wouldn’t be a crap-shoot of a single race to determine the season-long Champion.
NASCAR has installed 2 of the 4 teams in the Playoffs.
How exactly
Inconsistently handing out penalties.
Seems fairly cut and dry to me, the bell one was pretty black and white, while the other ones were in the grey area, so they looked a bit longer
Mark Martin is a very wise man!
I stopped watching Nascar since the Playoffs.......and yet I still watch this.....
nascar has to do something, since betting and gambling is much bigger now
That might be why they’re screwing things up
27 minutes isn’t a long conversation when there are many people who have a say in thing, and it’s a sign that Nascar cared enough that they listened to what those people had to say about it before making the call. They wanted to hear what their people had to say, awesome. Yeah and great point Amy, would Bell have done that without the Chastain move? And the bad thing about it, Bell you had it bud, you didn’t need to do that Wallace had nothing to gain by charging back to pass you, and as a Toyota driver he’d surely been aware of your situation, an act of gentlemanly agreement in racing, and that’s a thing. Dang Bell, lesson might be He has some anxiety and rushed decision making habits he needs to slow down and take more time when he get in trouble or situations, oh yeah I remember he had struggled for a while when he’d start in a good spot, top 10, the race starts and so did the bleeding, and he could not stop it. Slow down refocus and what you got to do. Charles Leclerc same thing he did that this weekend at Brazil saved his tires too and didn’t lose the spot driver behind him choose to tuck in didnt over or give him the chance thre turns later cause of tire wear. I am a race car and I know these things bruh!
This is the lowest average finish for a championship 4 ever with a 14.95 average finish. If I had to choose a final 4 based off consistency it will be Bell, Elliott, Reddick, and Larson.
If we still had Winston Points it can be a true championship race with Christopher Bell with a 34 point lead on Tyler Reddick similar to how Jimmie Johnson had the championship locked up in the chase era for example 2006 (and that was with a points reset).
Larson had 6 wins...he deserved to be in the final 4. What good does it do to win more races than anyone and not be rewarded for it by an automatic final 4? He could win 11 races all season and be knocked out by a putz like logano and blaney...doesnt make sense
@@rtbell2806consistency
While many other sports include a playoff system and a final championship game, the Premier League team with the most points (three for a win and one for a tie) at the end of the season is crowned the champion.
Love having Amy there but it is totally Ok if Junior goes on a monologue for 5-10 minutes. Junior knows the issues and we have been waiting since Sunday to know what he thinks.
Jr needs to stop interrupting Amy. She’s a guest on the show, she speaks first everybody else next.
TV cameras need to pan out and more drone shots. Best race last year was Nashville and DW was a guest in the booth and mentioned that the TV fans are not getting the sense of speed because of the tight shots on a single car or two. We don’t need to be able to read the decals on the leaders A-Posts the whole race. Pan out! We wanna see more of the action on our 70” HDR TV’s.
Agreed! I took my son to his first race this year. He's now into watching it with me, however, he's made comments that it doesn't look like they're going fast when watching it on TV. His mind was totally blown seeing it in person. The TV crew needs to do a better job! And boy do I miss DW in the booth!
@ I think Prime Vision, coming next year with may solve this. They offer two versions of the TFB football games. I watched the Prime Vision instead of the traditional broadcast lastnight and it was awesome. Hopefully they do the same for NASCAR.
I agree. We came down from Canada to Daga the year there was a drafting agreement for most of the race.We had locals apologizing for such a boring race . It was neat to see four cars going two hundred miles an hour around the track but not really what we came down to see.
The amount of people I've heard say that Byron is innocent is hilarious, you can't be foolish enough to believe that he/HMS weren't in those Chevy meetings where "the plan" was discussed.
Thanks for doing what you do for the fans
I love the monthly Dale Jr. roast.
Oops! I mean Amy co-host episode!! 😂😂😂
I like the original Chase format from 2004.
Cleetus McFarland Ford crown Vic racing is more NASCAR the NASCAR is today
I'd like to do the 10-race Chase Format WITH eliminations.
BUT no points reset, those 10 races are a race for the championship but you still eliminate drivers every 3rd race.
Championship race is still based on points, not who finishes ahead of the others.
The point system needs to go back like it used to be when your dad raced and they need to get rid of the damn stages. These cars is supposed to be the future. Supposed to be so awesome. Can they not go a whole race without having to have a break or will they just blow up? I mean what are we doing here? I've been watching this my whole life. Just about this is ridiculous
It took him so long to make the decision because they did not want two Toyotas and two Fords only in the championship for. I'm a Chevrolet man but I don't think the right Chevrolet got in Larson needs to be in there
we can all agree on wanting the full season points format back, but i don't think going back to the Latford system is the solution, people look at it now with rose tinted glasses but forget how often it was criticized for rewarding "a good points day" over race wins, the current points format is actually pretty good, it rewards both wins and consistency, it just needs a few tweaks and it would be ready for a full season
2035 Nascar will be two teams of 18 cars each, and one owner will be Hendrick and the other will be Nameless Corporation of Invested Private Equities, and they'll just be allowed to come up with "plays" for the last 10 laps.
Nope. It’s called racing, not finishing.
Could Nascar just go back to 1 season no playoffs,500 mile races with only cautions for wrecks and get the real ausome Nascar back 👍
You all old enough to remember every one crying how boring the championship was when it was wrapped up with 3 weeks to go
No. That's b.s
I can’t believe Jr is trying to play off the “not helping unless it helps me” when he described how he refused to push Mike Skinner or pull up in front of his dad when he was coming on the outside. 😂🤣😂😁
One person we’ve got to give props to is Jimmy Spencer. He and Steve Burns were asked about team orders in 2010, before spin and before the playoff format was even conceived. Nobody knew what NASCAR would think of it at the time, but the idea of team orders coming into the sport was not apocryphal.
Just an idea...
Regular season (26 races) with 10 signature events. (daytona, Charlotte, darlington, indy, road course, 5 wildcards). If you win a signature event you automatically make the playoffs. Win and your in does not apply for any other race during regular season.
Playoffs (top 16 make it (2 rounds). First four races are win and you make the next round. After race four there is a cut off. Top 8 or top 10 make the final round.
Last 6 races are purely on points to crown a champion.
I think this would be a good compromise for fans vs. TV deals. Any changes/suggestions are welcome
MAKE THE WINSTON CUP POINTS SYSTEM GREAT AGAIN!!!!!! NO MORE BULLSHIT!!!!!!
Making it Winston Cup would put it back in the hands of mechanics not engineers
There was blatant race manipulation during the Winston Cup era. Prime example; in 1993 Dale Sr. Could only not finish last place to win the championship. RCR fielded a second car with Neil Bonnet driving with the intent to start the race and retire. It was reported before the race.
@@charlesburge3074changing the points system would not have any impact on that
Its not winston cup anymore bud. Ya need to move on and get with the times
Love it! I miss the good old days, don't you? Things were more like they used to be back then! 😏
As a former loyal NASCAR fan, this most current situation is just another reason why I'm at best, a very distant fan now, and, moving forward
I think what happened at Martinsville vs what happened at Richmond with MWR was different because they brought out the caution
The 2004-2013 chase was the perfect balance of adding late season drama while retaining legitimacy, I would love to see that come back, but if that happens it will be sad to see all of the champions of the last 10 years be looked at as less legitmate, but it's honestly the truth.
Great convo fellas(and Amy)
Excellent news having some content over the winter!
The Harmon n Waltrip wrecks at Bristol don't need to be repeated, could be catastrophic
Ross did a full send premeditated. Bell was not the same thing!
I can agree it's not exactly the same. But the goal was the same.
ehhh yeah i guess so But one Only happened as a spur of the moment reaction to actual bullshit n one was just for the hell of it
I agree. To eliminate him and let the 24 in is just wrong.
@@hamonryechinaski180 it was allowed when ross did it. And it is now allowed now. You do understand that distinction right?
Do you think Chastain would say no to Chevy? Look how hard he had to fight to get here. Chevy would pull all support and screw his career. Damn Bubbas car was out of shape because he was riding in the marbles trying to slow down for 20 car to pass. I hate bubba but at least he wasn’t thrilled to do it. Damn you want to hurt the driver that didn’t want to do it. Suspended the crew chief and owners
It's cool Amy cares and has takes on the sport. Respect 👊
If you are going to continue with this system, you have to figure out a way to reward the regular season more .
I was a long time fan of NASCAR during the old points system, and attended races at eight different tracks over the years. But the sport lost me after it went to a playoff system. Under the old system, the best team won the championship every year. It was simple and fair. Racing was still great to watch because every race was important to every team on the track, even if that team was way out of the points competition. Now the playoff system emphasizes just a few teams.
IMHO, big issues with NASCAR go back to Brian France wanting to make NASCAR compete with football. For NASCAR, having a playoff system and the championship based upon the team that survives the playoff rounds seemed hokey. And to this former fan, it honestly is a less valid a way to crown a championship. I remember hearing Denny Hamlin once say he would rather win races than the championship. And I agree.
Years ago, NASCAR came to a cross roads where they had to decide whether they wanted to be a sport or simply entertainment. They chose the wrong path when they chose to go the entertainment route. As a sport, NASCAR was already very entertaining without being manipulated like it is now just to put on a show. I held season tickets for years at Talladega and all the people around me were the same each year until one year, nearly every seat around me was occupied by corporate guests who knew nothing about the sport and spent most of their time getting obnoxiously drunk. I kept my tickets one more year and that was it for me. These were the people NASCAR chose too go after at the expense of their long time and loyal fan base.
The playoff format is a symptom of what is really wrong with NASCAR. The France family reaps enormous profits while teams are forced to scrounge around to find enough sponsorship dollars to run each year. Equitable revenue sharing would go a long way to changing the financial power structure and perhaps would lessen the pressure for teams to "fix" race out comes. Just my $.02 rant from an old fan.
Absolutely right. NASCAR take so much cash out of the sport whilst they run it like a clown show.
The play offs are so flawed, especially win and you're in. If you are going to have play offs then the British Superbikes way makes sense. Top 8 have 6 weekends 18 races points race with double points in last weekend and leader on points before play offs has a start. It works. NASCAR need a top 10 or top 8 points play off for last 6 or 8 races with double points at the end. Stop the win and you're in and the eliminations. Hamiln had 3 good finishes without the win and he's out yet Logano who's been weak and relied on furl saving or ludicrous overtime shenanigans. Bad for sport if 22 wins championship.
If they didn't block for Byron Bell wouldn't have been forced to do such an extreme move. To me the blocking is 100 times worse than a wall ride
But they shaved spots aswell soooooooo.
@@timchatham8997 what do u mean ??
@trentejames9773 they had Bubba back up to bell and give him the spot. On a "supposed" flat tire that seemed to last the last few laps.
@@timchatham8997 it wouldn't have been needed because Byron would have been freight trained by 7 or 8 cars
Junior just.
Prove my case that Ross throttled it in and drove into the wall and held it.That is not what bell did.I am not a bell fan , but that's not what bell did ..Bell loss 😊control and hit the wall. And turned hard left and held it hard left and throttle to get off the wall. Junior just agreed that if you're out of the groove in the turns it's like ice and you can't turn and move.
In south America we add weight to top 3 finishers every race. If the next race you are 7th or worst you take out the weight. And the final race the points are X1.5. So if the winner on the regular season get 30 points for a win the final winner gets 45 and so on. We got always a last race definition between 3 or 4 drivers, even more. Game 7 vibes every time.
THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!!!
Chris Bell didn’t even do it on purpose… you can see he got loose around that 23. I guess he should have tried to get off sooner but easier said than done. Position wasn’t affected, I think he should be in that final 4.
I love it when Amy corrects Dale. I realize it’s not just my wife that does this. 😂😂😂
NASCAR is "ruling" themselves out of business
It's simple for this long-time NASCAR fan. Lose the playoff format. At least give us back the ten-race championship
Manufacturers help each other at Daytona without penalty is their a rule if not where is the infraction here.
I agree with you Dale…. there should be some ground rules… but I also don’t see a problem with team or manufacture orders… as long they don’t wreck someone else intentionally… F1 has team orders all the time… it adds intrigue… drama… strategy…
How do you give bubble the OK that the turns are icy? And slick when rubber build up, but not bell the same heart as it.
31:50 The hem-haw-ing -- love that!~
And that has almost become expected out of NCAR, so yet another change won't hurt as bad as not fixing the problem (assuming NCAR even thinks it's a problem - and likely do not), and going back to an older format could signal to the fans(viewers) that they might get what they hope for - a real championship measuring stick.
Excellent show, I just have one Question as a longtime NASCAR fan here, how does Logano seem to have a Lucky Horseshoe every other year??
But if u notice the one car gave the 24 car the bumper at one time was that for show or what
Stock car drivers have been using the car to their outside or the wall/rail when necessary since the beginning of the sport. It’s called racing!! Ross C took it to the extreme (my hats still off to him). Sundays incident was obviously not
done with intent.
PS
Manufacturers have been effecting to race results since the beginning as well…
Sorry Dale but the only solution was to keep the 20 and 24 out. Put the 5 in the championship 4 because he was the next in points. Suspend drivers 1, 3, and 23 for phoenix. Fine all the spotters, owners, and crew chiefs a large amount.
And fine all the manufacturers and the sponsors and all the fans of said drivers.
Love the new merch shirt Amy!
You too Dale
why wasn't the blue move over flag flown for the 24 for 20 laps,then the black flag, was GORDON the flag man???
Not disputing that the 24 was slower, but why would the blue flag wave when it’s for position?
The blue/yellow is for lap down cars in the way of lead lap cars. If you are "blocking" for position its just racing.
***** this is in no way support for what happened****** I am jist stating fact
What got Nascar where it is today. The old Winston system with the cream coming to the top for all the races. If I wanna watch baseball, I'll watch baseball....bring back the old style with the Earnhardt's, Petty's, Allison's, Gordons and all of the excitement of a year worth of driver's striving to be the most consistent. Just make wins worth way more than finishing 2nd. Man that's when Nascar was fun, cool and exciting!
My only gripe with the whole thing is this.....yes, Bell's move is illegal according to the rulebook, but it was on the last lap. He was forced into doing something desperate because the Chevrolets played rolling roadblock for 20 laps....if they don't manipulate that, bell doesn't need to do anything at all
I agree with the call they made on Bell however what is considered “unsafely riding the wall”? Is that a length or an amount of time “riding” the wall because looking at Bell, he could have made a argument that he was sucked into the wall and as he was powering off, he could not get off it!?!
I thought it was great strategy as well, a lot was going on in the final laps, made it very exciting.
So we just gonna look over the random auto tune at 5:53
Yes, it’s 1 hour long and that’s where your attention span goes not others. 🎉
I am curious why Keselowski did not "bump" Dillon and have him slide up into Chastain...similar to what Blaney did earlier in the race.
I'm sure we would have seen that if a Ford wasn't leading the race. Keselowski didn't want to risk causing a caution flag.
Add more races at the end. Do like three rounds of four races, last round is four races so champ is based on points…regular season winner and driver with most wins automatically get in the final round.
19:00 No interteam communication, none.
So, what about bringing back the 10 race chase for the top 16. No one gets eliminated, but if a chase driver wins a race, they get a "bonus" of say...20 extra points on top of the normal points win. Winning will be worth more, but consistency will still be rewarded. Keep the same 10 races, they do a great job sampling the other 26. But...NASCAR is sliding more towards entertainment than trying to choose an ideal points/championship format.
Either three races or four race. Four race has to be road course, short track, intermediate, Atl drafting
No if u penalize the 48 an let joey in u have to punish the same for everyone
Bell call was the right call, he didn't advance his position, but riding the wall kept him from losing positions which would have knocked him out. I think that's what took so long was determining if it changed the outcome and it clearly did.
Your name says it all... lapped traffic would have been the only ones that might have passed him so your argument is invalid.
That's like saying I robbed a store using a gun and my friend used a knife. So my friend should not be in trouble. Laws/rules were broken. Period
The way the chase is set up now is for the new fans, young fans, and fans that don't have a favorite driver. If you did some research and reported back I guarantee all those people would like it and if your driver made it through, those people would like it. Most people complaining are fans of drivers who never make the playoffs or got knocked out early. The other group would be the old heads who don't like change. If Nascar went back to the way it was Nascar would lose most of the fans that watch because of the excitement of the chase. Everything has to change. If you are 30 years old or below more than likely you want instant action, satisfaction, etc.
Also Nascar listens to Sponsors. If I sponsored a team I would love if they made the playoffs. The camera is on those 16 cars constantly
There was a major difference between Chastain and Bell. Chastain took his hands off the wheel and gunned it using centrifugal force to stay against the wall. Bell, on the other hand, got loose and hit the wall. However, he was turning the steering wheel left as hard as he could to get off the wall. Watch the in car cameras on both drivers.
THE REAL FANS ALL LEFT BECAUSE OF THE CHASE
What a show! NASCAR wrung their own Bell at Martinsville, and gave William Byron the best slice from that Modified Melon.
No matter what when the guy with double the wins is not in the final 4 there is a problem an not just larson kevin Harvick got screwed 1 yr wins should be the most valued thing thats y they are all there to win
April 2010, at 'Dega, Harvick pushed..then passed..McMurry in the "Tandem draft" era to win at the line.
Late day Tuesday NASCAR dropped the hammer on all the teams mentioned.$s and points plus suspension for spotters/team executives.Every one of course appealing penalties.Glad NASCAR reacted:not sure it will be enough to curtail future race results interference. Happy Harvick had a great idea for a future championship playoff format on his show today;hopefully NASCAR was listening (had merit:interesting idea)
Top 8 playoff drivers race begins the final set of races (playoff 8) so last 4 races accumulated points for the championship. 2024 racetrack playoff example would be Las Vegas, Homestead, Martinsville, Phoenix. 16 - 9 places playoff ranked before the final 4 playoffs races get to race for a separate title within the same races. That is my idea. Heck even add a couple of non-playoff drivers to the 2nd tier who race well during the previous rounds of playoff races.
That gives the championship 4 race series a total of 18 drivers to race for something other than just a race win. Instead of just 4 drivers in a final single race.
God at this point I want a third Daytona race or talladega as the last race.
As long there is opportunity to manipulate a race, drivers/teams will do so. The end of Sundays race was definitely a black eye to nascars playoff format. U seen the cars stacking up for no reason and then it made sense.
This would be a big ask with how “big” nascar and all the money involved, but go to a 10 race playoff system, zero eliminations, and let the fans have an influence on the 10 tracks chosen for the playoffs.
Playing out a hypothetical race this weekend....the top qualified playoff driver just gets a bunch of manufacturer "buddies" to line up behind him and block for the whole race. Championship is awarded before the race even starts. Just as bad, let them race until the last 10 laps then have manufacturer put the orders out to get their championship. Each manufacturer has at least one car in so, it could absolutely happen.
This format could work but they need to change it slightly. By making the round of 16 a one race playoff from 10-16. Meaning the top 10 get a one week bye going into the playoffs. Then go 3 races all the way to a championship round 4 drivers 3 races.
Amy needs her own show!
great show. Best shows with Amy on. Dale's best win was marrying Amy. go back to most points win. I hate stage racing.
They didn't "put Logano in," he got in when the 48 was DQ'd, just like how another driver is awarded a win when the winner doesn't pass tech. Same would be true here if they DQ'd Bell and Byron; Larson would get in on points and actually, because he's been the best driver all season, leading in pretty much every category that matters, it would make the final race seem more legit to me. Not having the best team by far with twice as many race wins, over 500 more laps led and the most stage wins makes the format look bad, so if he's in, there is sort of saving face. I'll be it, minimal since the format stinks.
Personally, I don't think they're going to do anything that'll change the Champ 4.
It would be so much easier to just ditch the format and go full season again. Keep the stages, but ditch the playoff elimination. Bring back some bonus points for leading and for pole. Make it the hybrid of the newer system and the old one and you've got a winner. Award another 10pts for race winners.
Amen Jr., you race to win not push another for the win!
If you want to stop drivers sandbagging to help other drivers, add an alternate bonus (points or money) to sweeten the pot for those late season races.
Is Amy's top 2:45, apart of the new mech co lab with Bud
1:00:09 love how Amy mocks Jr’s hand gestures.
Pretty sure Blaney was told to stay behind Logano for 2nd place in 2022 to provide a buffer between him and the next championship contender. And he had the car to win. So that stuff can still happen in the final race.
Dale Yeah 🤘🏻🏁
I think the playoff rules should be modified to give the driver who won the most races during the season a shot at the title regardless of the points
I agree sit em out! I still question how bad does it hurt the manufacturers. Great idea. Go Blaney he's gonna repeat.
Willy B was the 4th driver in points to start Martinsville.
Blaney below the cutoff won.
Willy B drove in the top 5 all day and got stage points in both stages and drove his ass off all day to keep the top 5 to leap frog #20 in points.
You Can Not take Byron out!
He did nothing wrong and everything right, I pick him to win next week.
I'm no Byron fan but I agree 100%
@@taylorbertrim7625 The Penski Fords ran poorly all year, Blaney ran well at the end of the year, but Lagano has no business being in the championship. Lagano had to half ass his way into jis 2024 wins.