The Only Ways to CHEAT in Your Hobby?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2021
- It's always okay to cheat in your hobby - except when it's not.
Vince Venturella and I made a game! Check out Reign in Hell - Demonic Skirmish Combat at www.reigninhellgame.com
I'm now a partner on Twitch! I paint minis every Friday morning and Monday night, and sometimes take paint breaks (play video games poorly). Follow me: / tabletopminions
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"Whatever it is that people do when they go outside, I don't know"
Yeah, I've got nothing on that either, people are weird.
I sometimes go outside, in order to meet players at my FLGS :P
I think maybe they go 'vrooom' a lot... ;)
Came for the “Pachows” and wasn’t disappointed. Thank you. I only ever speed paint with contrasts and washes as I play smaller/quicker games with my son. Blood bowl and Kill Team for example. I like variety in teams and squads rather than full armies all looking the same, which would burn us both out trying to build and paint all the same. Keeps us both interested both with painting and in game. The most important lesson I learned right at the start was that not every model needs to be a show stopper. The time vs end reward is just not worth it if you want to just play a few games with your time instead.
can get some great results with contrasts amd washes
"If you don't like the Right Way, find a Better Way". This is the kind of advice you don't see in other channels :D
“Remeber folks, cheating is never bad, except when it is.” Great hobby advice, horrible marriage advice.
Another fantastic informative, motivating video. TY I’m just starting in the hobby at 61 OMG!
Back in the day, it took me 3-4 weeks to paint one 5 man squad of Space Wolf Blood Claws and 5-6 weeks for my Terminators because everything had to be perfect. When 3rd edition came out, I had to tear half of my army's arms off because they were no longer legal under the new edition. 30 years later, I can now paint the same squads in less than a week, but not as perfect. It comes down to what's important to you. A perfectly painted army that will have to be hacked apart and retooled to fit the next edition, soon after you've finished painting them, or a quickly painted squad that looks pretty good but is legal to field under the new codex rules.
Been there too many times. I left the hobby rather than tear up my 2nd edition armies. This is now my 3rd time back with 40k but now I just don't care as much about wysiwyg 😁. A different sort of cheating I guess but it works for me. Why spoil a great paint job because eldar can't have lasguns, nope in the game they all magically become shuriken catapults. It helps that Eldar models just don't get the love and updates from GW😂😂. As the longest standing xenos army one might think GW has forgot them!
This is so true. One need to learn when to stop. Bringing a model to perfection might take forever - some highlights here, some drybrushing there, repainting the sword a 3d time because I don't like it, oh I need more shading here.. There should be a point when you say it's enough. Even if the edges are totally screwed, hell with them, you can try once more in future. Otherwise it just stops being fun at some moment
Same as a gamer beginning back in the 2nd ed. Another one for the orks is the 32mm bases. I'm not re basing 150 minis that were fine til for ages until a few years ago.
You're only cheating yourself out of fun if you cut corners. If you don't like doing something it's not cheating.
Only time I've said it's someone cheating themselves there is when it's something that isn't going to work. I remember there was one person at a shop I used to go to who was really good at painting, unfortunately, their choice of paints was horrible. Not in the look, but the paints rubbed off with the slightest interaction even with sealing over it.
It kind of shed a chalky substance over a LOT of things...no clue what it was actually called...that guy ended up cheating himself out of a couple weeks work in cleaning them up to repaint with paints that actually worked there.
That definitely works too.
Okay that thumbnail was easily an 11/10. And my cheating is always focused on punching above my skill when I paint, that's why I'm here. ;)
"...Hobby cheating, or how it's basically not a real thing..."
Vince would like a word, sir.
I have some ork skeletons that I use for all my paint tests. Then when I'm ready to do my squad, I paint the leader first as a test so if I decide to change up the methods slightly I can paint over whatever piece of equipment or leave as is It just looks like unique markings. It makes for decent practice.
I “cheat” the HELL out of my miniature painting. Undershading, inks/glazes and oil washes for the win lol.
One of the "benefits" of aging - gravity affects the eyesight (its gravity and not age, right?), so smaller details start to matter less because they cannot be seen easily (or at all) - so when a mini looks good at arms length, it will look great on the table. ;-) Cheers!
Nonsense, that’s why I have coke bottle glasses😎 to see everything
Additional Cheat: Paying someone to paint your models and then claiming you’ve done it yourself.
I was going to say the same thing.
I actually mentioned that in the video I ‘pa-chowed’ about cheating. It’s not good to do. Thanks for watching!
Now that is just dishonest.
Being asked by GW to paint a Horus Heresy box and paying some one to do it...
Sitting here, wearing my PA-CHOW shirt and listening to your thoughts. Good times :) Thank you
I'm glad in this video you called out the people telling you/others that "you're doing it wrong" when it comes to x painting technique. I think it's important to keep in mind that no one 'wins' painting by doing it a certain way and you should always be open to learning new things. Like you said, you're cheating yourself if you don't.
Dammit, Atom --- this may have been exactly what I needed to see today. I'm new-ish to the hobby, having done some painting years and years ago, when I was into RPGs, but I've just gotten into Battletech. For all intents and purposes, I'm a base newbie at painting, so I'm giving myself some leeway in the "this may be the right way, but it sucks!" department, because I assume the suckage is just not having practiced enough, yet.
But ... applying "if it's not working, do something else" to what you play, well, I think that just pa-chow-ed my brain open. 'Cause I like the too-much-simulation part of BT, but the group I'm playing with plays such huge games that each turn takes an hour, mostly spent waiting for other players. (I was more than a little jealous of the Infinity players at the next table, who did a whole game during one of our turns.)
So, I think this might be the kick in the pants I needed, to see if the group is willing to play some smaller, quicker games. Or for me to try something new.
Thanks so much!
Unc talking about Malifaux and me realizing I miss it and then him mentioning "Vampires" and now I must find that. As always great video Unc! Thanks!
Hey, great video as always! I really like watching your videos, keep up the great work!
Outstanding as usual! Especially at 6:20...nice!👍
09:50 : I would buy that T-shirt!
WIll you cover some more Malifaux? I started to transition over from GW systems and keen to hear you speak about it some more :)
Check out third floor wars if you already haven't! Great content there :)
Any thoughts about doing a good paint job on a bad sculpt? Would love to hear your thoughts.
"Or whatever people do when they go outside" I identify with that too well 😂
I personally have 3 types of paintjobs that I'll do to decide how much time to put into models; troops, elites and characters which depends on their role in the army.
Vinces stuff is gold, great example of smarter not harder.
Theres a lot of quick and dirty contrast paint videos i want to mimic for crisis protocol where the models turn out looking cool and with their own style i want to implement for some of my guys. They use contrast for 90 percent.
I love the effect you can get with well done underpainting; using complementary colors, value sketches and analogous colors before using a translucent color over the top. It looks amazing, cohesive, and it's the most discouraging technique I've ever used. It stretches out the part of the paint job where everything looks bad for as long as possible.
So I've almost entirely stopped using it. I'll zenital prime because of course that helps, and it's easy. I'll even use some forms of underpainting to do some small specific techniques. But as a general rule I avoid it for large areas. It's not worth it to me.
If the technique that the pros use is a slog to use, or using it steals your inspiration and joy in painting, then stop using it. Find some other way to get a comparable effect.
Especially if you're painting pieces to play with.
I find his hands mesmerising, hypnotic and wonderful
So does my cat.
@@akaken23 Meow! 🐈
I get dizzy watching him
You should watch Max Von Sydow movies. The best hand acting.
I like to try and play the small skirmish games like kill team , warcry and to a degree Bushido but now im starting to get into Reign in Hell
I have to agree there is no right or wrong way to paint. There are basic methods, but the end result should be an expression of the individual painter, as it should be in any style of art.
Who is saying hobby techniques are cheating? I have never heard that
You’re lucky if you haven’t heard them. “Airbrushing is cheating, Contrast paints are cheating, washes are cheating…” I’ve heard many of them. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions The next time someone says you are cheating by using an airbrush, Contrast paints, washes, or whatever just ask them if they hand sculpt their miniatures and if they so no tell them THEY are cheating.
I was expecting you to say the only real way to cheat at a painting competition was to submit a model you didn't paint yourself.
Dry brush works wonders
Adam, It aint cheating if your using tools that are available to conquer the grey plastic horde. Whether a notice trying contrast paints to quickly paint units or a veteran using contrast for extreme contrast values, or if you 'eavy metal edge highlight for hours or drybrush for quick edge highlights, it's all just things that people pull from the toolbox. Now some people have larger toolboxes because of experience but finding techniques or certain paints or using alternate things is not cheating. Like when I started getting serious about painting I used the 3 colors up method, then I moved into an army painter system where you put the base colors down and wash it, then I started to get into airbrush priming for a better start, then I moved into better paints like pro-acryl from monument hobbies, I picked up oil washes, so now I'm getting more consistent thinner primes not clogging as much detail and a thinner base coat that lends to sharper detail. I mean I have been painting off and on for 20 years but I have only started to really get a good table top standard in the last 2 years or so. I'm still trying to move into the next level but wet-blending, eyes, extreme highlights, edging, and hand drawn symbols are very tough for me. I came from a band background (where I from in 6th grade you had to choose band, chorus, or art- that path followed us through high school). I hated art, and sometimes I think maybe I should have paid a little attention in those few art classes before 6th grade and in college.
I may be reading this wrong, but I think you enjoy some heavier music?? If so, check out Sheev-Mind Conductor (debut album). As always, love the content and just listening to your videos in the background as I work.
interesting perspective, nice work :)
OMG. Loved every single advice in this video.
The third point is really something I have a problem with! I spend hours doing something 'the way it's supposed to be done' and take way too long, not liking the process after a while. Working on a model for a week and seeing no progress because its all in the details is actually frustrating to me. Watching Ninjon's stuff and videos like this get me to thinking that it's more about the process, the journey if you will, rather than having a model painted the 'right way'.
I actually have to get myself to care less about details to have more fun with this hobby!
The only type of hobby cheating I thought of is stealing your buddy's models.
Yeah, while I agree I still have a problem. I am absolutely down with "hobbycheating" and use techniques that allow me to get my miniatures battle-ready as fast as possible and safe the time, energy and care for the models I want to look best - a.k.a. stand-alone display pieces.
BUT - and here is my problem with this miniature painting hobby of mine. If have so much games I want to get ready for play with so much miniatures that even I am doing a "good enough as fast as possible" approach I have not even touched any of those miniatures I just bought for "let's do it as best as I can" or "let's focus on learning and perfecting this technique".
Yes, I know I should just spare the time between two projects or in-between but when I got time and motivation it is usually connected to a game I want to play. I am afraid I will only to get to paint all those wonderful other models when I have retired. Hopefully I will live long enough and my eyes and hand-eye-coordination will still be good enough.
If it helps you find time to hobby, go for it. Dry brushing can hide a multitude of sins.
"'if you don't like the right way, find a better way" That should be on a t-shirt"... i wholly expected that to appear in the merch, potentially with a pa-chow to it!
If I had the time, maybe it would’ve been. Maybe soon. Thanks for watching!
Rattle can armies rise up!
I think you can cheat yourself out of not painting your minis or at least some of them, but hey if you like a wall of grey then props, but I feel you could cheat yourself out of the satisfaction of painting, even if it's just prime, base, and a single layer, like guns silver, joints black or whatever. Just focus on a nice base, weapon, a layer and... a wash, extra layers, face and hair can come later. Not tough to have a good looking simple army.
i like the vroooom lol 6:20
Perfect idea for a shirt. “Uncle ATom told me to cheat.”
Ten years one army, damn! Wish I was that fast!
This is a great video
Uncle Atom: There's no such thing as hobby cheating
Vince Venturella: Monkey looking away meme
Ha! I have corollary example about the third one. I met people who don't paint their miniatures at all, because in their minds if it isn't done to a certain standard, it's not worth doing it.
[EDIT]
Mmmh, I realize that my observation is out of context though. The people I described are clearly not into the hobby.
I have friends who don’t want to paint because they know the paint job won’t look how they imagine it in their head. I’m trying to figure out a video to try and help that issue, too. Thanks for watching!
In my personal opinion those rubics really are the bane of painting competitions. If anything, it limits people to experiment and take miniature painting to new levels. And by new levels I do not mean the smoothest blends or crispiest highlights.
There's some really, really amazing, out-there, interesting painting going on out there, but probably none of my favorite miniature painters will ever get a Crystal Brush, let alone a Golden Demon, because of the rigidity of these rubics.
Being able to be more objective as a judge is a nice sentiment, but on the other hand SOME higher power has decided a 'properly' painted model needs to have a certain look when creating such a rubic.
Not saying miniature painting should go all high brow, but a bit more acceptance in the painting competition circuit of experimental works would be nice.
Painted my first mini in ages today, whose I'd seen this video6 hr ago.
All good advice though!
I use the ultimate hobby cheat - commission painters.
Riding bikes!
Wise words, all of it.
Take it easy and just enjoy your hobby 👍
Cheating makes you angry...Khorne likes this :)
Don't let Vincey V. see this 😳
"Cheat wildly!" I totally agree!
I never avoid a new game because 'this game is the one I play'. I do it because 'oh, no, I can't afford to buy a bunch of things for another game.' :)
Aaaah... Arrows in the video description will immediately improve the video. It's that considered cheating btw? 😄
Remember to like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm 😁❤️👍🏼
Atom: Hobby cheating doesn't exist.
Vince Venturella: Am I a joke to you? 🤣
Practice? Why, that's what guardsmen and tactical squads are for😉
Wish there was Age of Sigmar in "Song of Ice and Fire" format.
Check out One Page Rules fantasy regiments rules. Or use AoS models for Kings of War.
If someone says your cheating in your hobby then their just jealous
Practically you say: don't fool yourself, it doesn't worth it.
Vroooom!
Yes my 3d printer produces plenty of sacrificial minions for me to practice on before painting actual 40k models. Muahahaha Id rather screw up a demon prince that cost me 3 bucks then an official demon prince that I had to sell a kidney to get.
If you’re entering an online mini painting competition, and you edit your submitted photo of the mini beyond basic brightness/contrast/cropping, you’re cheating. Agree/Disagree?
If you do it yourself and you are happy with the results I don't consider it cheating. I don't understand why using techniques that save time is cheating. Maybe we should all cut our grass with scissors or use a push mower rather than a riding lawnmower (sorry not going to happen). A while back at a game store someone brought in a 40K army they intended to use in tournaments and had commissioned the paint job. That's OK, he didn't try to pass it off as his, but he acted so proud of the way it came out. I can see why you would be happy if it came out the way you expected, but where's the pride in just spending money. To me that's more like cheating.
There is no 'this is the way' in the hobby
Hmmmm, okay now I am interested in this. Topics were "sometimes" a bit bland this past years but getting interesting again!
Vroom.
There's a certain "cult of work" mentality that says if you aren't hustling or working hard, you're doing something wrong. That's a toxic mentality, in both the workplace and the hobby space. You should be deeply suspicious of this mentality, and about who benefits from it. (Spoilers: It's Capitalism).
As it pertains to the hobby, you shouldn't feel obligated to do something "the hard way", just for the sake of doing it the hard way. Work smarter, not harder. The only one you have to impress is yourself (or a judge, as the case may be). So long as it accomplishes what you want out of the project, it's the correct choice.
Okay, comrade.
Yes and no. Context is king. The harder way, which may take more work an effort can be more gratifying and character building. For example I'm currently fixing up my house, I could take the easier option and get hired professionals for the various jobs, or I can donot myself and learn as I go about it and can look back with the satisfaction that I have learnt some new skills, while also making the home for my family.
Not everything is about Capitalisim.
VROOOOOOOM?
Motorcycle noise in the background.
@@JMcMillen thanks.
All Hail the You Tube Algorithm Gods
Wow, video is in focus.
Stop Hobby Cheating Yourself!
For the algorithm!
For the channel!
in regards to trying games, don't underestimate the power of something like tabletop simulator. it can be a bit of effort, but you can try some games on there before ever buying a model to make sure you enjoy it before taking the plunge into something you were side eyeing longingly.
Not sure "cheating" was the right term here maybe…?
It's only cheating if you get caught red-handed!
I completely agree. By definition, "cheating" is "to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage". What he is describing is not gaining an advantage, but the opposite. "Cheating yourself" is somewhat of a nonsensical term.
The main takeaway from this is opinions are like arseholes. Everyone's got one and sometimes it's inappropriate to share them.
The non-gaming hobby part (collecting, building, painting) is your part of the hobby. Your rules your enjoyment that is why it is a hobby
I limit the number of games I play because I'm pretty sure my wife will murder me in my sleep if I take over another room with my nerd stuff.
This is all silly
Quit cheating yourself Adam, come to Battletech.