My eldest has ocd, ptsd, and adhd. I am always livid when I hear certain people in my faith tradition saying its not real, meds dont work. My eldest is doing well now because of therapy and the medication that they take. Such a dangerous stging to say
As a therapist, I find it very dangerous for pastors to speak with authority about mental health disorders. There is already so much stigma surrounding seeking help. How does his comments benefit anyone.
Because he only cares about promulgating views that align with right-wing evangelical Christianity. This is about appealing to the sheeple and lining his pockets. As someone who has dealt with MDD my entire adult life, I wish people like this would just STFU.
I worked at a Mega Church for a few years as a new Christian (enlightening) I was appalled at the uneducated advice that was given out including terrible parenting advice. Keep up the great work guys. I hope the New Evangelicals become the main stream.
When I was on staff at an evangelical megachurch, many pastors (most were DTS alum) were convinced that depression was demonic or a result of unrepentant sin. One guy even told parishioners to get off their meds. 🤯 I told him he was practicing medicine without a license, which was not received well. I was told I was not a “team player” 🤨😑🙄
John MacArthur, classic example of someone who thinks he knows everything about everything simply because he knows some Bible verses. Speaking on that mic as if he has a PhD in Psychology. As someone with OCD, he is the type of religious leader who actually causes people’s OCD to be 10x worse.
No no you guys! the chair is very PBS masterpiece theater. Or as sesame street calls it "monster piece theater " with cookie monster. Lol keep the chair!
dear John Macarthur - April is right - What the $&!^ ?!? Our family, including extended members, are poster children for the difference between properly medicated kids (to adults) who are neuro-divergent and those who have to self-medicate. One group is safely navigating life. The other group has been in rehab facilities and/or prison. Wanna guess which one is which?!? Makes me want to reach through the screen and throttle him.
My husband had a full blown breakdown in 2016 and was diagnosed with OCD (Scrupulosity, which is all kinds of fun) and he also has ADHD. All 5 of our children have ADHD and several have an Anxiety disorder and one is also Bipolar. We are currently looking into a possible Autism diagnosis for 2 of my kids. Both my husband and I have extended family with similar mental health diagnoses. If you'd like to throttle JM, I'll stand beside you and stuff socks in his mouth. I'm so over listening to his kind of crap.
I just shake my head for an hour straight every week here. Y'all are in my thoughts! I left my Evangelical Free church nearly 2 years ago and I rarely miss it...I missed playing in the Worship team at first, but worship music is complicated for me now, as I'm something of a Agnostic Universalist. I still engage in Bible "study" by way of Pete Enns and Jared Byas, The whole Bible for normal people staff, Dan McClellan, Bart Eahrman and your podcast. I find much of it all fascinating even in cases where I'm on the outside now. I feel more at home than ever before. Thank you for all you do, your work helps to facilitate and validate the faith of many still in your circles, and those just outside. ❤
I'm always surprised that when Macarthur's name comes up, no one ever talks about his pro-genocide stance. I don't pay much attention to him, but about 15 years ago, in the Christian bookstore where I worked, someone was playing Christian radio in the back room area, and Macarthur's preaching was being broadcast. He didn't sugarcoat his position: he stated that God had commanded "genocide" in the Old Testament, and was right to do so. He said we must be prepared to commit modern genocide, as long as it's done in accordance with biblical principles. Somehow Jesus didn't figure into his ethics on this point. Not sure why.
I can't find it online anymore. But I know 100% for sure that John MacArthur once said in a sermon (maybe 10 years ago) that Anorexia doesn't exist and that it's a pride issue. A woman with an ED is just too prideful and loves herself too much, that's the real problem according to MacArthur. I was pretty shocked at that! I've never forgot that statement!
John MacArthur hates women. I can't believe that he is even still in ministry after all the scandals around him covering up sexual abuse in his church, protecting the abusers and bullying and ostracising the victims. He is absolutely evil.
Started attending a UMC church last December after over 20 years of attending Mars Hill (the Rob Bell one) and love it. I hope people become more aware of the UMC and how great it is. As a therapist of over 10 years, I agree that children are over diagnosed and over medicated but that has nothing to do with PTSD 🙄. It’s like because he knows the Bible he has Dunning Krueger about everything.
And I would argue he doesn't know the bible. If you haven't had the education to be able to study the text in the original Greek or Hebrew and/or don't listen to the people who do have that edition...then sorry Johnny Mac you don't know the bible. Also after leaving evangelicalism after 20 years. I returned to my mainline roots and started attending a UMC 3 years ago. Our family loves it.
@@rickyblackburn-n9e No jesus didn't go to seminary but he did actually speak the languages the Bible's written in. are you able to read the original language of the bible without training? Or did you benefit from somebody who went to school for a long time and then translated it into contemporary English allowing you to forget the text wasn't written in English. Jesus also did not sit on the many councils where men voted on which books to compile into a bible....
Gavin Ortlund made a video about this, too. I like it when the more liberal and conservative Christian channels I follow agree on such an important topic.
I'm just starting to watch... MacArthur has gone super political in recent years...now he's a full blown right wing conspiracy theorist!! He has become incredibly outwardly hateful.
My grandmother had a brother that fought in World War 1, and he came back with "shell shock" -- which we would call PTSD today. It was NOT just grief! He got no treatment because there wasn't much of a treatment back then. He lived until 1970 and was a complete wreck. I have letters he wrote to my grandma, and they are in a very shaky hand, and full of "please pray for me," and "I feel so anxious," and "pray that God would help me." I know my grandma prayed for him diligently. The poor guy was trying so hard to pray the shell shock away. If anyone could have prayed the shell shock away it would have been him. JM doesn't know squat.
As a Swiftie, I think if we’re having the argument, it’s important to remember that performer doesn’t mean singer or dancer. There might be singers with more range and who can dance better but overall, not many can utterly captivate a stadium of 100,000 people. Performing involves telling stories, playing instruments, orchestrating an overall show. In that regard, I’d say she’s arguably the best. Beyoncé has bigger vocal range and better choreography which are aspects of performance too so she probably belongs in the argument along with others too.
I just want to know where the reciepts are for JMac to claim that all the specialists are finally admitting that mental health issues are a “noble lie.”
You may have given me a PTSD flashback from playing "I'm int he Lord's Army" from my Sunday school days. But John Macarthur says I PTSD isn't real, so I don't know what to do.
I happen to have worked in Neurofeedback therapy for some time, where we would do what's called a "baseline EEG" on the brains of our patients - to identify treatment protocols. Though PTSD doesn't show up in any certain way, signs of it are evident through the EEG. In layman's terms, PTSD "sears in" a brainwave pattern from a traumatic event, or events. When activated (by anything the brain might recognize as a "similar" stimulus), this seared in electrical pattern moves through the brain as in the causal event. This of course sends current through parts of the brain that elicit behaviors that are often not appropriate for the moment - triggering shame and sorrow (psychological effect) as others are affected negatively. Neurofeedback retrains the brainwaves to as normal of balance as possible. The brain "wants" to be in a normal state, and is quite compliant when treated, but will not normalize on its own. This applies to TBI as well - once the injured part of the brain heals, it will not automatically restore electrical transfer, but can be retrained to do so. What we are talking about here is the physical aspect of the brain that is broken, and can be restored. There is also the chemical aspect, and that is what's normally treated, but will never assist the electrical aspect in healing.
59:36 classic quiverful quote, from some random proverb. And the mother is not mentioned, it is the father's blessing to have a quiverful of children (maybe just sons) to fight the enemy. Oh I remember singing that, but in a context that was not in anyway military, so just sang it as a fun song without the baggage.
I believe when Jesus was casting out" demons" that he was actually casting out mental illness or, in other words, healing them of their mental illness . And he still does it in each of us today every man in his or her order.
I expected I might be surprised by what John MacArthur had to say about mental illness, but I guess my bar for wildness has been raised too high. A local pastor said last year that prescription medication for mental illness is "nothing more than sorcery, nothing more than devil-concocted chemicals." Not to mention another local pastor who, while claiming that children can be physically punished into no longer being clinically hyperactive, said, "That's the only reason God gave us [butts]. To be spanked."
I'm Director of Music Ministries at a UMC near Nashville, TN, and I am pleasantly surprised that the General Conference managed to do the right thing. A good time to be UMC!
These things were heavily field-tested at Standing Rock and Ferguson. Actual direct military equipment transfers to the police have been going on for over a decade. They used sonic LRAD weapons 1st tested in Iraq at Standing Rock. And even had a anti-aircraft missile launcher pointed from the hilltop at the main Očeti Šakówiŋ camp in an exact mirror of the old hilltop Hotchkiss artillery cannons used to massacre their people at Wounded Knee I. The police claimed they were "just needed for its night vision cameras." I'm sure they won't mind if I install one on my front porch for home security.
The independence of evangelical ministries means there is no system to hold them to account. Denominations act like licensing boards and can respond. Empathy based heresy? Well that is Jesus thrown out....
I think what gets me about Samuel Sey's tweet is that he's defending a man who offered his views on mental health issues without actually citing a single passage. So Sey's defense of Macarthur's statement is totally irrelevant. It's an obfuscation. Or is Sey seriously saying that the statements by John Macarthur ARE holy scripture?
Though I never had respect for JM, I listened him on the story of Jonah and the Whale. It's my go to story, and for a good reason. John not only adds to the story to fit his own narratives, his passes over words that he obviously has no clue on their meaning. If your a bible only Christian, you should be able to read and understand the bible correctly.
Love the channel. My only thing is i cannot stand when podcasters use airtime just to shoot the shit talking about nothing and personal stuff. Your audience is there to hear the listed topic, not banter!!
Hey I've seen your episode on Ruslans channel / podcast & despite having very fringe views about what it means to be a Christian & what may or may not be wrong in the Bible regarding certain sins and problem passages...what struck me was that you immediately affirmed the essential doctrines, that Jesus was the Son of God, that he died on the cross for our sins, and that he rose from the dead 3 days later... so here's my question, I can appreciate some of your work because honestly i find you charismatic, charming, & often express a light-hearted humour, ok I seriously digressed but here's my question...why do you so flippantly speak about Jesus & "Sky Daddy" & perhaps want your viewers to believe prayer and Jesus is a complete joke?...when you literally believe he rose from the dead (once again on Ruslans podcast you affirmed this very casually & convincing). Am I missing something here? Are you the progressive Christian that believes Jesus Christ really was the Son of God that resurrected from the dead (your words not mine) but reject many mainstream Christian beliefs (aka your entire podcast persona you've created) or not? The way you seem to mock the idea of Jesus & God in any capacity in this episode makes it seems like you are literally lying about your entire "purpose" for this channel and make up your beliefs or rather persona for...idk for what? Clicks?
And PTSD does not only afflict people who fought in a war. Every single CSA and rape victim has PTSD. Every single one.
My eldest has ocd, ptsd, and adhd. I am always livid when I hear certain people in my faith tradition saying its not real, meds dont work. My eldest is doing well now because of therapy and the medication that they take.
Such a dangerous stging to say
As a therapist, I find it very dangerous for pastors to speak with authority about mental health disorders. There is already so much stigma surrounding seeking help. How does his comments benefit anyone.
Because he only cares about promulgating views that align with right-wing evangelical Christianity. This is about appealing to the sheeple and lining his pockets. As someone who has dealt with MDD my entire adult life, I wish people like this would just STFU.
I worked at a Mega Church for a few years as a new Christian (enlightening) I was appalled at the uneducated advice that was given out including terrible parenting advice.
Keep up the great work guys.
I hope the New Evangelicals become the main stream.
When I was on staff at an evangelical megachurch, many pastors (most were DTS alum) were convinced that depression was demonic or a result of unrepentant sin. One guy even told parishioners to get off their meds. 🤯 I told him he was practicing medicine without a license, which was not received well. I was told I was not a “team player” 🤨😑🙄
Well done for standing up to them.
John MacArthur, classic example of someone who thinks he knows everything about everything simply because he knows some Bible verses. Speaking on that mic as if he has a PhD in Psychology. As someone with OCD, he is the type of religious leader who actually causes people’s OCD to be 10x worse.
As a pastor and fellow OCD sufferer, I totally agree!
Hey I have OCD too! Evangelicalism is rough on OCD man
Friday is my favorite day of the week, because I start with you guys, and end with an Edible while watching Ancient Aliens! Deconstruction rocks!
🙏🙏🙏
Now, that's the ultimate way to start a weekend. 👏
No no you guys! the chair is very PBS masterpiece theater.
Or as sesame street calls it "monster piece theater " with cookie monster. Lol
keep the chair!
dear John Macarthur - April is right - What the $&!^ ?!? Our family, including extended members, are poster children for the difference between properly medicated kids (to adults) who are neuro-divergent and those who have to self-medicate. One group is safely navigating life. The other group has been in rehab facilities and/or prison. Wanna guess which one is which?!? Makes me want to reach through the screen and throttle him.
My husband had a full blown breakdown in 2016 and was diagnosed with OCD (Scrupulosity, which is all kinds of fun) and he also has ADHD. All 5 of our children have ADHD and several have an Anxiety disorder and one is also Bipolar. We are currently looking into a possible Autism diagnosis for 2 of my kids. Both my husband and I have extended family with similar mental health diagnoses. If you'd like to throttle JM, I'll stand beside you and stuff socks in his mouth. I'm so over listening to his kind of crap.
I just shake my head for an hour straight every week here. Y'all are in my thoughts! I left my Evangelical Free church nearly 2 years ago and I rarely miss it...I missed playing in the Worship team at first, but worship music is complicated for me now, as I'm something of a Agnostic Universalist. I still engage in Bible "study" by way of Pete Enns and Jared Byas, The whole Bible for normal people staff, Dan McClellan, Bart Eahrman and your podcast. I find much of it all fascinating even in cases where I'm on the outside now. I feel more at home than ever before. Thank you for all you do, your work helps to facilitate and validate the faith of many still in your circles, and those just outside. ❤
I genuinely appreciate the two of you keeping it real & being humane.
I'm always surprised that when Macarthur's name comes up, no one ever talks about his pro-genocide stance. I don't pay much attention to him, but about 15 years ago, in the Christian bookstore where I worked, someone was playing Christian radio in the back room area, and Macarthur's preaching was being broadcast. He didn't sugarcoat his position: he stated that God had commanded "genocide" in the Old Testament, and was right to do so. He said we must be prepared to commit modern genocide, as long as it's done in accordance with biblical principles. Somehow Jesus didn't figure into his ethics on this point. Not sure why.
I can't find it online anymore. But I know 100% for sure that John MacArthur once said in a sermon (maybe 10 years ago) that Anorexia doesn't exist and that it's a pride issue. A woman with an ED is just too prideful and loves herself too much, that's the real problem according to MacArthur. I was pretty shocked at that! I've never forgot that statement!
John MacArthur hates women. I can't believe that he is even still in ministry after all the scandals around him covering up sexual abuse in his church, protecting the abusers and bullying and ostracising the victims. He is absolutely evil.
Started attending a UMC church last December after over 20 years of attending Mars Hill (the Rob Bell one) and love it. I hope people become more aware of the UMC and how great it is. As a therapist of over 10 years, I agree that children are over diagnosed and over medicated but that has nothing to do with PTSD 🙄. It’s like because he knows the Bible he has Dunning Krueger about everything.
And I would argue he doesn't know the bible. If you haven't had the education to be able to study the text in the original Greek or Hebrew and/or don't listen to the people who do have that edition...then
sorry Johnny Mac you don't know the bible.
Also after leaving evangelicalism after 20 years. I returned to my mainline roots and started attending a UMC 3 years ago. Our family loves it.
So we all can be theologians like John with no degree. He’s a character for sure. Let’s keep praying for him.
@@rickyblackburn-n9e No jesus didn't go to seminary but he did actually speak the languages the Bible's written in. are you able to read the original language of the bible without training? Or did you benefit from somebody who went to school for a long time and then translated it into contemporary English allowing you to forget the text wasn't written in English. Jesus also did not sit on the many councils where men voted on which books to compile into a bible....
I've been having this nagging curiosity about April's chair just listening to the podcast version!! 😂😂😂❤❤❤
Gavin Ortlund made a video about this, too. I like it when the more liberal and conservative Christian channels I follow agree on such an important topic.
I'm just starting to watch... MacArthur has gone super political in recent years...now he's a full blown right wing conspiracy theorist!! He has become incredibly outwardly hateful.
Excellent points. I listened to him for years. I haven’t listened to him since 2020. I can no longer deal with him.
You don’t even know what you’re in for
My grandmother had a brother that fought in World War 1, and he came back with "shell shock" -- which we would call PTSD today. It was NOT just grief! He got no treatment because there wasn't much of a treatment back then. He lived until 1970 and was a complete wreck. I have letters he wrote to my grandma, and they are in a very shaky hand, and full of "please pray for me," and "I feel so anxious," and "pray that God would help me." I know my grandma prayed for him diligently. The poor guy was trying so hard to pray the shell shock away. If anyone could have prayed the shell shock away it would have been him. JM doesn't know squat.
There's not much compassion there for those who experience 'normal grief', either.
How wonderful❤ You’ve finally answered the question “What would Jesus do?”
Guys, what is it like to be in the golden age of church leaders putting feet in their mouth? So much content to be had!
As a Swiftie, I think if we’re having the argument, it’s important to remember that performer doesn’t mean singer or dancer. There might be singers with more range and who can dance better but overall, not many can utterly captivate a stadium of 100,000 people. Performing involves telling stories, playing instruments, orchestrating an overall show. In that regard, I’d say she’s arguably the best. Beyoncé has bigger vocal range and better choreography which are aspects of performance too so she probably belongs in the argument along with others too.
I kind of love the evolution to a mini sports commentary segment ;)
I HAD TO 😂😂
I just want to know where the reciepts are for JMac to claim that all the specialists are finally admitting that mental health issues are a “noble lie.”
Wartburg Watch had comments on how Macarthur has become "stunted by cruelty and has entered his Pat Robertson phase."
"that is a pretentious chair"
"Is it comfortable?" "Yes"
Hmmm... There's a correlation here 🤔🤣
He sounds like he is embracing Christian Science. Remember Tom Cruise and Brooke Shields.
hahahahah I WISH I was making up OCD. John, thank you for curing me 🥰
You may have given me a PTSD flashback from playing "I'm int he Lord's Army" from my Sunday school days. But John Macarthur says I PTSD isn't real, so I don't know what to do.
TNE and Honest Youth Pastor agree = McArthur, you wrong
I happen to have worked in Neurofeedback therapy for some time, where we would do what's called a "baseline EEG" on the brains of our patients - to identify treatment protocols. Though PTSD doesn't show up in any certain way, signs of it are evident through the EEG. In layman's terms, PTSD "sears in" a brainwave pattern from a traumatic event, or events. When activated (by anything the brain might recognize as a "similar" stimulus), this seared in electrical pattern moves through the brain as in the causal event. This of course sends current through parts of the brain that elicit behaviors that are often not appropriate for the moment - triggering shame and sorrow (psychological effect) as others are affected negatively. Neurofeedback retrains the brainwaves to as normal of balance as possible. The brain "wants" to be in a normal state, and is quite compliant when treated, but will not normalize on its own. This applies to TBI as well - once the injured part of the brain heals, it will not automatically restore electrical transfer, but can be retrained to do so. What we are talking about here is the physical aspect of the brain that is broken, and can be restored. There is also the chemical aspect, and that is what's normally treated, but will never assist the electrical aspect in healing.
The Bible 3D printed John MacArthur’s glasses with exactly the right prescription.
59:36 classic quiverful quote, from some random proverb. And the mother is not mentioned, it is the father's blessing to have a quiverful of children (maybe just sons) to fight the enemy.
Oh I remember singing that, but in a context that was not in anyway military, so just sang it as a fun song without the baggage.
Do all "deconstructors" have an MLM story?! I also have a few examples and Travel Ventures was one of them 😆
Oh my gosh you too?
Me🙋♀️
MLM with friends. Unforgivable!!
@37:22 No such thing as PTSD, OCD or ADHD?!??? 😮 oh my gosh! 🤯
I believe when Jesus was casting out" demons" that he was actually casting out mental illness or, in other words, healing them of their mental illness . And he still does it in each of us today every man in his or her order.
I expected I might be surprised by what John MacArthur had to say about mental illness, but I guess my bar for wildness has been raised too high. A local pastor said last year that prescription medication for mental illness is "nothing more than sorcery, nothing more than devil-concocted chemicals." Not to mention another local pastor who, while claiming that children can be physically punished into no longer being clinically hyperactive, said, "That's the only reason God gave us [butts]. To be spanked."
44:04 The most deadly thing unleashed on children is medication??????????? what??
I'm Director of Music Ministries at a UMC near Nashville, TN, and I am pleasantly surprised that the General Conference managed to do the right thing. A good time to be UMC!
P.S. Don't even get me started on John Macarthur, though... SMH.
Add in Paul Washer and you got the Four Horsemen
Do you think protestors who said antisemitic stuff should be expelled?
These things were heavily field-tested at Standing Rock and Ferguson. Actual direct military equipment transfers to the police have been going on for over a decade. They used sonic LRAD weapons 1st tested in Iraq at Standing Rock. And even had a anti-aircraft missile launcher pointed from the hilltop at the main Očeti Šakówiŋ camp in an exact mirror of the old hilltop Hotchkiss artillery cannons used to massacre their people at Wounded Knee I.
The police claimed they were "just needed for its night vision cameras." I'm sure they won't mind if I install one on my front porch for home security.
The independence of evangelical ministries means there is no system to hold them to account. Denominations act like licensing boards and can respond.
Empathy based heresy? Well that is Jesus thrown out....
I think what gets me about Samuel Sey's tweet is that he's defending a man who offered his views on mental health issues without actually citing a single passage. So Sey's defense of Macarthur's statement is totally irrelevant. It's an obfuscation.
Or is Sey seriously saying that the statements by John Macarthur ARE holy scripture?
Though I never had respect for JM, I listened him on the story of Jonah and the Whale. It's my go to story, and for a good reason. John not only adds to the story to fit his own narratives, his passes over words that he obviously has no clue on their meaning. If your a bible only Christian, you should be able to read and understand the bible correctly.
I lost most of my respect for JMac in 2020 when he told Trump that no christian could ever vote democrat. Btw i am canadian.
Neanderthals still do exist. Well, that’s an insult to Neanderthals.
John Mac. Wow, just wow. And not in a good way. Just no.
Love the channel. My only thing is i cannot stand when podcasters use airtime just to shoot the shit talking about nothing and personal stuff. Your audience is there to hear the listed topic, not banter!!
I find the bogus way you all use biblical words like repentance and prophecy in bad taste
Hey I've seen your episode on Ruslans channel / podcast & despite having very fringe views about what it means to be a Christian & what may or may not be wrong in the Bible regarding certain sins and problem passages...what struck me was that you immediately affirmed the essential doctrines, that Jesus was the Son of God, that he died on the cross for our sins, and that he rose from the dead 3 days later... so here's my question, I can appreciate some of your work because honestly i find you charismatic, charming, & often express a light-hearted humour, ok I seriously digressed but here's my question...why do you so flippantly speak about Jesus & "Sky Daddy" & perhaps want your viewers to believe prayer and Jesus is a complete joke?...when you literally believe he rose from the dead (once again on Ruslans podcast you affirmed this very casually & convincing).
Am I missing something here? Are you the progressive Christian that believes Jesus Christ really was the Son of God that resurrected from the dead (your words not mine) but reject many mainstream Christian beliefs (aka your entire podcast persona you've created) or not? The way you seem to mock the idea of Jesus & God in any capacity in this episode makes it seems like you are literally lying about your entire "purpose" for this channel and make up your beliefs or rather persona for...idk for what? Clicks?