Why Gas Engines Are Far From Dead - Biggest EV Problems
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2024
- Why Are Car Makers Still Developing Internal Combustion Engines?
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Why are car manufacturers still improving and spending money on combustion engines in the year 2020? Should all development research be going into electric cars and electric vehicle technology? Unfortunate news if you think ICE transportation is going away in the near future to be solely replaced by electric vehicles (EVs).
The internal combustion engine is still incredibly relevant today, and can still use further improvements in order to reduce global emissions. In this video we'll discuss scientific issues facing electric cars, environmental problems with ditching combustion engine research, how cost impacts customer decisions and manufacturer profits, and ultimately how consumer choice plays a large role in this industry. If you've ever wondered why combustion engines are still being developed, this video breaks down all the details.
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*WATCH PART 2 AFTER!* It includes an efficiency discussion: th-cam.com/video/oJL9MasBFvM/w-d-xo.html
*IMPORTANT NOTE:* Obviously, I should have discussed efficiency, as I have in almost every video where I discuss EVs. EVs are often 3-4x as energy efficient, meaning you need *less* energy total to move a certain distance (compared to the very best diesels, they're about 2x as efficient). That's why a "3 gallon" tank Tesla can drive 350 miles. Again, as mentioned in the video, the sweet spot right now is EV passenger cars. When you talk about towing, freight trucks, trains, planes, etc, the weight gain is not offset by the efficiency gain. Don't believe me? Here's the math: th-cam.com/video/S4W-P5aCWJs/w-d-xo.html
*UPDATE TWO:* I hope no one interprets this video as electric cars aren't cleaner/more efficient/better for the environment. They most certainly are: th-cam.com/video/6RhtiPefVzM/w-d-xo.html. Also an important consideration if you're in the market for an EV is buying the range that you need. A smaller battery has a significantly lower impact than larger batteries, and will offset its carbon footprint much faster. Obviously, this will result in lower range (city commuting, multi-car family, etc).
Engineering Explained Question about towing:
Why an EV car is efficient in towing the first 2 tons (its own weight), but not efficient in towing the second 2 tons (the trailer). I’m sure I missed something, I just don’t know what.
Hey Jason, any chance you can do a video on Mazda's recent claim with the MX30 that for total life cycle emissions they chose to go with a shorter range smaller battery pack? They also state that if they were to go with a larger battery pack their life cycle emissions would be greater then an equivalent diesel. I would like to see if you can back out the assumptions that they use.
On another note, I do not believe current or gradual improvements of Lithium Ion batteries are going to be suited to constant high load applications when there is a weight restriction (i.e towing and vehicle weight class regulations or as you started to get into - aircraft). We have not been seeing the industry get the specific energy high enough, fast enough, to even come close to matching the performance of liquid fuel powered vehicles, even if they are less energy efficient.
We will see if "Tesla battery day" in April will change something in energy density.
@@juzoli Because it is not much about weight but about drag. Adding boxy thing is completely killing areodynamics of the car itself.
@@exparrot9074 Funny thing is that Mazda didnt support their claims with numbers just with statements.
The only thing more delicious than flavored sparkling water is tax deductible flavored sparkling water.
He should have done this with bourbon
"delicious" that's controversial
or y'know... soda
@Ya Mumzhitachi preservatives are delicious
The only thing better than a crawfish sandwich is 5 crawfish sandwiches.
I'm keeping the $300 dollar Volvo I bought a decade ago until the wheels fall off. 380k miles, and I've driven it from Oregon to Nevada numerous times in one straight trip with no stops. I do want an Ebike but an Ecar makes no sense to me.
Another thing about the weight of gasoline and that of ion-lithium batteries: As you drive, gas leaves the car in the form of exhaust. Once you have used the energy in the gas, you aren't carrying the weight of it around. With the batteries, you still are transporting the entire weight of the expended energy source, progressively losing energy but not the load it moves. Probably not a big difference, but a difference never the less.
its a big difference, thats why planes cant possibly run on batteries
You're answering the wrong question:
you should be figuring out how utilize the energy in gasoline WITHOUT burning it... using it MORE efficiently, not tweaking the explosion process. Work on that.
Actually, I'll bet Exxon has already figured it out.
There was a guy, Tom Foggle or something, this was way back, like 2006-2010. He converted the liquid gas to vapor, which got him 100 mpg. I'm sure the oil companies paid him millions to buy his technology & keep his mouth shut.
wrong that occurred in the 1920's. Vapor Carburates have been around for 100 years, the oil industry does not like the because it cuts into their power over the people. @@DecrepitBiden
@@oldrrocrhow can you possibly get energy out of gasoline without some form of combustion?
Would love to see a video on the amount of mining that goes into making a single EV battery and charging energy VS the amount of oil a ICE car uses over its lifetime.
You should also include the amount of strip mining involved in tar sands, the tailings ponds left behind in perpetuity, the production of rare earth metals for an ice car( platinum in cat converters a hot item in thieves markets nowadays), basically the lifetime footprint of both vehicles side by side. Ev still wins in every metric. Congress just passed today more incentives for American production of everything from batteries to vehicles, here in N.America. we have higher environmental standards than China obviously. Last I heard there was potential that the Salton Sea in Southern California could be a major source of lithium and other metals and minerals. Currently it's just a toxic wasteland, created by fertilizer runoff - fertilizer that was created by petroleum for the last hundred years. If you want to talk about environmental footprint let's do it
@@COD-dr1ph any resources on such a comparison? Always keen for references. 👍
@@tttm99 sorry, regarding 'any resources' or references to what I've said'- unfortunately the way TH-cam presents these replies at least on my phone I had I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe it's just me but I don't see any easy way to quote what someone has said, nor know what quote you are quoting :-) in other words I'm totally lost I responded to many posts over the past few days so I don't know what you're referring to exactly :-)
@@COD-dr1ph
Pretty sure he was referring to the only other comment you have in this thread.
@@youngroosevelt38 got it. On my phone it is kind of detached and confusing.
"The more you make, the cheaper they become"
**Apple has left the chat**
gold!
there is only one apple! literally no competition..
but i got android so f*ck them anyway
I love Apple. The best phone I have had is 6s. I have been using it for the last 5 years now. No issues, the only issue I have is with the battery, it has degraded significantly, I will be replacing it soon.
Please stop bashing iOS and comparing it to Android, both are awesome in their own ways. Expensive or not, Apple will always be the best in my heart.
@@TENNSUMITSUMA Exactly there's only so much gold on the planet.
@@gary5807 i see what you did there!
Almost lost it at “this isn’t just an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible” 😂
How many people thought, "I need to start a TH-cam channel"?
Saaaame
Leo V. I died
no you didnt
talk about efficient.
He could have demonstrated energy using steak and lobster as well.
Good video. Love the practical, common item examples. One point that should be made is the gasoline engines have around a maximum 33% efficiency converting the latent energy of gasoline into mechanical energy, while electric motor and their required variable frequency drive partners have efficiencies in the mid-90% range. ICE engine powertrains also have transmissions and axles/differentials that are mid-90% efficiency while the electric powertrain has a single speed gearbox/differential operating in the high-90% zone. Doing algebra with a lot of rounding, we end up with ICE powertrains at 30% and electric powertrains at 75%. This means you need to take more than half the LaCroix cans off the table because it is a 2.5:1 ratio for the energy that actually gets to the road.
Now, that is only in the car. Electrical energy still has to be made and those processes are incredibly inefficient and usually polluting. Even the best solar panels are only 25-30% efficient when new and are made from “interesting”materials.
I’m all for electric but it is certainly not an easy slam dunk. It is a difficult problem with 10 lbs to put in a 5 lb bag. All this to say, I agree the ICE is certainly not dead and should not be.
Yes everyone forgets the weight of the tranny and the engine. The torque of the EV is way more superior to the ICE.
If you redo the math considering parallel serial hybrids with engines with 40% efficiency (Toyotas that today cost as roughly much as regular cars) and the fact that on the other side of an EV usually sits a GE gas powered 60% efficient turbine (or worst, here in the US), you may conclude hybrids are better deal, at least for the next 20 years or so.
Don't forget that your power station is only 50% efficient. The grid transmission loses 8-12% of the electricity and then EVs lose another 40% (they are 60% wall to wheel efficient).
Modern petrol and diesel engines are 37%-43% efficient. Multiply out the EV numbers above and you will see that EVs are actually less efficient at converting fuel to motion than a petrol or diesel car.
As 60% of electricity in the US comes from fossil fuels it would actually use less fuel resources if people bought new petrol or diesel cars instead of EVs.
Most people have fallen for the idea that EVs are more fuel efficient but they haven't actually worked out the numbers. EVs are cheaper to run because there is less tax charged on electricity than gasoline. People therefore assume they must be more efficient but it isn't really true.
With ev conversations, it's normal to use the existing tranny to save money and work. If like to see some better light trannies made for this that could let a 9" brushDC or 3phase motor run at rpms that don't make sense for the ice equivalent.
@David Webb you are forgetting that petrol and diesel doesn't just appear out of thin air, it needs to be pumped out of the ground, transported, refined and transported again. There is a lot of losses in all these processes and a lot of fugitive emissions.
"This is more than just an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible!" OMG so funny!
If the only concern we had was total cost of ownership, we'd all just be driving 90s Honda Civics
**looks over at my '91 Civic** I mean, you've got a point there
I have a 2006 Citroen C2 which gets 50 mp USgallon for £800
Yup 2011 escape. IfI don't get 150,000 miles out of a purchase I haven't got my moneys worth.
True story. Would never buy that.
I loved my '91 Si ^^
lol
Combustion engines suck (during the intake cycle).
They blow during exhaust
@@seventhplace Yeah, that too lol.
you can walk , free choice
@@paulwinnetou4560 Its a joke. 🙈 I'm a petrol head
@@paulwinnetou4560 Yeah, what Listen_good said
You are so on the money with this video! I truly love my 2023 Crosstrek PHEV simply because I get to go EV in the city but have literally no range anxiety when going off the beaten path to snowboard or kayak! The Soltera seems really nice and all, but even in Quebec where we are embracing electrification, it is still easy to find areas with no charging infrastructure.
Do you know how much mining is needed for EVs ?
@@marythompson4654 Yes, I am aware of the horrible conditions and human rights abuses in the Cobalt mining process. Though questioning people for purchasing phones, EV's or literally any other Lithium-Ion battery driven piece of technology is the wrong place to put your ire. The truth is that many of the industries behind the development of the electronics and convenient objects that we use in our daily lives have truly corrupt methods to cheaply mine, create and develop these objects. We definitely 100% need to stop taking cheap shortcuts, exploiting human rights and leveling everything that we can in nature to just consume. We also need to put focus into recycling the materials that can be used more than a single time or in some other product that is also useful.
I am also quite aware of the fact that in 2016, the usage of Cobalt in Lithium-Ion batteries was ~20% globally in early EV batteries, telephone batteries and all other electronic devices using Lithium-Ion technology. In 2020 the use of Cobalt jumped to over 60% globally in no small part due to the increased demand for EV batteries. This will continue to increase as we demand more and more EV's, telephones and digital devices using Lithium-Ion battery technology.
We need to ensure that the mining and production of these technologies follows proper industry standards and does not continue to exploit cheap labor forces forced into horrible working conditions. This is a problem that needs to be handled, but the our anger needs to be directed to our local government representatives.
No, I did not buy my PHEV because I thought that it would be a cute idea and make me cooler or better than others around me in some way. I bought a PHEV to reduce my CO2 and Carbon Monoxide footprint when I drive in my city, which is always full of start and stop traffic. Because Carbon monoxide emissions, unburned hydrocarbon emissions, nitrogen oxide emissions and carcinogenic particles from I.C.E. vehicles kill a large amount of people in our cities each year and the air quality in our cities is important to me. I live in a large urban center, and while I drive in EV mode I am not creating any of these toxic emissions. I also live in a country which produces over 60% of its energy using clean energy options, so charging does begin to make sense. I also chose to buy a PHEV vehicle with one of the smallest Lithium-Ion battery units possible while still getting the range that I actually need. My battery is an 8.8 KWh battery and it allows me to drive without using any petrol in the city. Am I right to have made this choice? I cannot really say tbh, but I am trying to promote cleaner approaches and maybe to optimistically hope that the industries behind them will also be held to better standards as we move forward.
@@madlucio70 if you know how dirty mining is then help protect Thacker Pass
I find your videos very informative and interesting. And I perceive them as non biased (this may be due to the fact that I have similar thinking... ). Non biased information is the key to understanding and I think you deliver in spades. 👍
Here in the Northeast the utilities co complains when everyone comes home and turns on their air conditioner in the summer. Can you imagine if everyone came home and plugged in a car to recharge at 240v for work in the morning. Power grid nowhere ready.
And then there's mining costs, the cost to mine the materials for battery consumes a lot more energy and pollution than just burning gasoline or even better, LNG. Then there's no good way of recycling batteries, yet. And then there's battery degradation, there are many countries in Europe and Asia where people don't use cars all that often. They just use public transport, which is more time efficient because of just how dense those cities are. If all of them had electric cars, the batteries would just be sitting around for the most part doing nothing. So if you don't use the electric car as much, on balance, it is more polluting vehicle compared to a gasoline vehicle. Electric cars only realistically have savings in net pollution when they cross a high mileage compared to gasoline vehicle.
Imagine all the material that's required to upgrade all the transformers, build out more distribution lines, etc.... Plus we still need roads, bridges, so the petroleum system will still be running full tilt. To "switch" to EVs, will basically require running two parallel systems flat out. If there's really resource and economic constraints, it is not going to happen, ever. Reality will eventually assert itself.
@@KevinKimmich44024 in the political realm reality rarely if at all reveals itself
This is a common misconception. People almost always charge at night. Utilities need a ton more power during the day - and have generation capacity to spare at night. Using EV's improves resource utilization of that capacity and utilities **LOVE** that. Evidence of this is that almost every electric company in the USA offers cheap rate nighttime electricity as a deal for higher rate daytime usage. They do this to try to spread the load of dishwashers, washer/driers, etc. They **LOVE** EV's.
Also if Elon Musk waved a magic wand and turned every car and light truck in the USA into an electric vehicle overnight - the total US electricity consumption would increase by about 15% - well within even our daytime capacity limits. But also, the shipping and refining of oil into gasoline and diesel consumes a MOUNTAIN of electricity...which is saved when people switch to EV's.
@@holdmybeer123 The raw materials production costs for an EV are less than for a gasoline vehicle. Remember - no engine, no radiator, no hoses, no transmission, no oil pump, no fuel tank, no fuel pump, no air filter, no water pump, no starter motor, no generator, no exhaust system, no catalytic converter...EV's are *very* simple machines.
Also, there are VERY good ways to recycle batteries. Tesla have built a battery recycling plant right next to their battery production system so the materials from old batteries are recycled directly into new batteries...in the same building! Toyota have been efficiently recycling Prius batteries for about the last 15 years. This isn't rocket science.
Reclaiming old batteries is easy (Tesla actually pays the scrapyards to remove them) - and recycled materials are cheaper than mining new materials - so it's a no-brainer.
Battery degradation is a S-L-O-W process on a modern EV. A Tesla battery is currently lasts at least 600,000 miles - about three times the life of a gasoline car...and their next-gen battery will last a million miles. Degradation was a problem with the older EV's like the Nissan Leaf - which didn't have battery thermal management - but that lesson has been learned and battery degradation is not a problem anymore.
You claim that under-used electric cars don't save on pollution isn't based on reality...I don't know where you get that from but it's definitely not true. With a gasoline car, there is a problem that if you don't use it enough, the gasoline will go bad and it'll be hard to start and have terrible MPG. This doesn't happen with an EV.
A recent road test of a Ford F150 Lightening pulling a 6000-pound (the truck is rated for 10,000 pounds) boat had to be cut short because the truck had to turn around and limp home with only 19% battery life left. The truck had only gone 80 miles.
Ye gods! How the heck is this a plausible option? It’s like solar and wind, they jump into it feet first only to find out there’s more to it. Look, we all want cleaner air and rivers to fish, but electric requires more exotic metals to make, thus more explorative mining to supply.
I just watched that video. The gas vehicle was able to return to the start point on what was left of the original gas fill-up. Hilarious. That was at 70 degrees F too. Imagine the high 90's, or even 100's we get in Utah... or the negative temps we had in western NY when I lived there. EVs are a cruel joke designed to destroy America from within.
@@easytalker864 lets not quite forget the environmental damages oildrilling creates. & ICE-cars are not made out of daisies either...While not being a fan of electric vehicles at all: one day the death knell of the ICE will have sounded, not by today's type of EV though.
Electric trucks that don’t towel well with extremely short ranges and requiring lengthy charging are scams.
Almost like you need a minimum range of 500miles in a truck if you want to tow. When towing large stuff always assume you will be only get half of your range. 250 miles is enough to get to fast chargers.
Thank you so much for all your research and mathmatics! I love my electric skateboard(born from a love of gas skateboards), but I also love my $4k ford focus(42mpg and can carry 10ft lumber!) cant wait to see the future of petroleum vehicles!
Yes Noah you are the smart one here. Inexpensive i.c.e. car, that's what I have. And, a great sounding radio and leather interior!
Pertroleum cars are not the future
@@manuelsantos9315 nor are EVs
Great points. An important one you didn't bring up is the experience of driving. ICEs will always (to me) be more engaging, exciting, communicative, etc than an ev. I don't think I'm the only person that feels that way
Better weight distribution, lower g center, acceleration on demand , huge capabilities for torque vectoring , along with weight distribution leading to huge advantage in cornering and stability, to name a few , examples of an ev advantages , im not sure how the ice is still more engaging to u... Do u own an ev btw ? Or just doing what majority in comment section do , that is just commenting for the sake of it .
@@Zenvo-uu9tm if you just want to go from place A to B, yeah you are right.
Have you ever wondered why manufacturers still make manuals and some manuals go for higher in secondary market than their automatic counterparts?
But I think everyone that feels that way is simply wrong, and Teslas beating multimillion dollar hypercars in drag races is my proof of it. For now, EVs are still quite linear, but the promise of the technology, with the immediate input feedback, is, in my opinion, more exciting than the seeming plateau we have hit with combustion engine performance.
Do you think your reactions are faster than electricity travelling over wires in an EV? EV adoption is still pretty low, so obviously manufacturers aren't trying to cater to the small enthusiast crowd yet. Sure, short sighted car purists might feel that way now, but there's nothing keeping companies from making sporty EVs other than short term cost.
@@stipuledorange4 well for now, those cars do not exist yet unfortunately..
“This is more than an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible” 😂
Damn was about to comment this. Very funny
It was funny to me at first, but then I remembered that food items don't have tax on them, at least where I live, and was a little confused.
Funny and real. You who continue to only work at a job are getting screwed by your gubment. You are taxed, then you spend after-tax $ to buy stuff. If you own a small side business also (no need to quit your job), then you can buy stuff with pre-tax $ through your business. This way, you will come out ahead.
@@SylvanEvergreen Not only is "sales tax" a deduction but the income tax on the money spent is a tax deduction. That said it makes zero sense to spend money you would never spend based on the goal to save on taxes.
@@SylvanEvergreen (In America) When a business has a "tax deduction" or "write off" it is not like anything you can do with your individual taxes. Business "deductions" are better known as business expenses which in tax accounting is negative income. This means anything you buy for your business is essentially deleting money from your yearly/quarterly taxable business income meaning it is as if you never made that money in the first place and don't ever have to pay the ~10-25% income tax on that money.
If your "business expenses" conveniently align with things you use in your personal life anyway, such as La Croix or your "home office" or your "business vehicle", then you get to buy these things for "your business" and potentially use them in your personal life. Since most business people don't have clear lines between their business and personal lives and their personal lives are usually dominated by their business there is a lot of potential overlap between them.
The Gemera’s 600hp 3 cylinder is what made me realize that we haven’t gotten remotely close to fully developing the combustion engine.
its all dependant on the fuel.. run that on hydrogen and watch the increase by over 100% .
Right! Hows Christian coming up with these groundbreaking inventions? Freevalve, 1 gear transmission
Kosta The Ghosta Not trying to downplay Koenigsegg at all, I love them, but it’s essentially just a built engine from the factory, with a lot of boost. It’s impressive but it isn’t hard to understand how it’s possible.
Jim Bob Yes, but no. People can easily get 600 hp from 2.0 liters with enough money, but the free valve set up is what is innovative.
False Flag Yes, Christian is sort of similar to Steve Jobs. He does not create the technology, he makes it better. We definitely can make cars even more efficient. Over the past 5 years more and more cars are coming out that can do 6 seconds to 60 mph and get 40 mpg at the same time.
A great summary of realistic vehicle options and wisdom on market trends. Well done !
Good video.
Military, fire department, hospital fleet, ships, and small ICE applications, might also be quite hard to electrify
Biden wants to do it lol
Modern naval ships use gas turbine engines to generate electricity and propel themselves with electric motors, due to energy density, power routing, and fluctuating power needs.
The AbramsX idea is based off an electric system.
The biggest issue certainly is energy density, but power is not a problem, you can get so much more torque out of a motor than an engine.
@@sportsfreak33393 electric motors are superior. Batteries are not.
13:15 _(Professional driver on a closed course. Do not attempt)_
The commentary made me legitimately laugh! "La Croix because I'm basic" and "Not just an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible"
ROFLOL
Yeah that was funny
You missed a few points:
1. Engine efficiency: The electric engine is much more efficient than the combustion engine, that means you need at least twice as much energy from the gasoline than from a battery.
2. Charging time: Filling a tank with gasoline takes less than 5 minutes wherever you are. Charging the battery takes forever, no reason to stop smoking ;)
3. Electricity Grid Capacity: Assume you try to replace 50% of the cars by EVs, the grid would break down long before reaching that.
4. Emissions: Just because you do not see and do not smell the emissions of an EV doesn't mean they are not there. Producing and recycling EVs is much dirtier, and also the electricity needed has to be produced somewhere and causes pollution. Some calculations showed that you have to drive over 100'000km until the emissions are equal, and much more to be more clean.
5. Safety: If a car with combustion engine is burning the fire is easy to put out. If a battery is burning it will burn for a long time no matter what you do. There are of course battery technologies that are more safe but also heavier.
Just came across this ... 2 years late.
Great explanation and demo's
and yes - I live in an apartment building, currently no charging points and no plans to install enough to cover the entire property.
btw love the FF cars!
EV's make the most sense in cities, and yet, most city dwellers are in multi-unit buildings, often with on street parking and no way to provide charging stations. So how does this all work?
]
Energy density comparison was good, however I would like to see energy conversion efficiencies considered.
Agreed, way more of those stored kWh go to actually moving the car in an EV than in an IC engine. Small win, but still relevant 👍🏼
@@noidontthinksolol Of course IC engines dominate in range. I'm simply saying energy conversion efficiency is an important thing to consider in this comparison, and perhaps how much room for improvement there is in IC efficiency.
Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%-21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels. An electric motor typically is between 85% and 90% efficient
Yep, considering about 95% or so efficiency of Tesla’s motor and 20+% of a typical ICE we’re not that far off.
Also you should consider the space and weight occupied by the ICE itself and powertrain.
Space in electric cars is usually not a problem while weight certainly is.
He went based on the average white hours per mile of an electric car and then he also went based on the average fuel economy for gasoline based on the US market for all internal combustion engine vehicles that are gasoline powered anti but enough cans of selsor water to represent a 22 mile trip in an average electric car as well as that 1 gallon of gasoline would equal the same 22 miles so when you look at the size of the battery pack compared to how much gasoline it contains for how far you go you get a lot more storage capacity on a gasoline powered car plus you get the advantage of being able to refill it quickly regain all of the range back or a very large majority of it in 10 minutes or less where is it would take over 2 hours in almost all electric cars to get that large range back So yes his comparison did take into account the energy efficiency conversion cause those sizes were both representative of the vehicles going 22 miles the battery pack size comparison was representative of 22 miles and the gasoline can person was representative of a 22 mile trip so taking in to account the energy conversion efficiencies he actually had that comparison rights it was very easy to get close and correct with using cans of seltzer water.
"This is more than just an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible" straight comedy gold, haven't laughed that hard in while! Awesome!
Very few tax payers pay 10% or more of their income as federal taxes.
I think a good application for electric vehicle is farm tractors. Weight is not an issue actually its desired. Most everything is run by hydraulics so converting a tractor would be relatively easy. As far as space for the battery, I use a ballast box filled with sand as a counterweight for when I use the loader, that very well could be a battery pack that could easily be changed when needed.
The recharge time and energy used by a tractor would make a battery powered tractor impractical. Unless battery technology changes drastically there won't be battery powered tractors for decades.
With a BEV you are always going to reach a point where you have to stop and recharge. With a car or even a single driver semi we are close to the point where the bev can drive as long as it's safe for the driver to continue. In Europe where there are lower speeds and shorter driving hours the Tesla semi already meets that goal. But for farming mining and construction equipment, the shear rate of energy usage per hour makes this not really feasible. The machines need to keep running with minimal delays. On the other hand the nature of these uses is that they stay close to base so things like having your own hydrogen filler station can be feasible. Another alternative would be to have swapable batteries. They could be external on a tractor because they don't need as much protection from impact as you need to drive on a highway.
@@davidwebb2318 I don't think so in the mid west of the US. Farms here are thousands of acres and they bring the fuel to the tractor which is left in the field until the job is done. In addition there are certain farm processes provided by a co-op such as harvesting where the tractor moves from one farm to the next.
@@johncooper4637 exactly. You cannot bring electricity to a tractor in a field to 'fill' it !
In Europe a lot of work is done by farm contractors too. At certain times of the year the tractors are working 18 or 19 hours a day. That won't work if they are all stopping to recharge for 2 hours out of every 4. They work in teams so everything gets very inefficient if you had to take one of the tractors out constantly for recharging.
@@davidwebb2318 why not, he suggested to put it in the ballast, just make it replaceable. There is a lot of electrical mining machinery, may not be battery powered though.
Really well, well done!! Thoroughly enjoyed your infoclip.......keep 'em comin'!!
"The combustion engine is going nowhere"
That can mean 2 things. Both, the exact opposite.
giggle
Technically combustion engines don’t need to move objects.
@Dick Bawls but life without ICE will be so boring...
@@domkay4601 imagine Baja 1000 going electric
@Dick Bawls the only future in your country is to get degree in gender studies its way easier than mech-engineering
6:49 - "It CAN improve significantly" (as he is touching the cans).
lmao
Wow perfect, wish I planned it haha.
@@EngineeringExplained I love the easter egg hunt in your videos.
The biggest problem is that the EU biggest buyers will ban it by 2035....
The 315-mile spacious Model Y proves that battery energy density isn’t a problem, at least for Tesla.
First thing that pops into my mind is the durability and reliability of combustion engines in remote and rural parts of the world. Try using current alternative power sources in Africa or rural areas of Australia, South America, etc,.
Exactly! Battery powered cars are not going to lift people out of poverty, but gasoline-powered ones will start them on the path!
Or... at sea!
Actually there are some remote chargers in Australia. They run off diesel generators.
They don't care. Agenda 2030. You will rent everything, you will eat food made from bugs, and you will use public transportation, digital currency that expires.
@@trublgrl or in SPAAAACCCCEEE!
Definitely think more development should happen regardless. Like "technology of old". Love steam engines and trains personally, but there are other great things out there that I just don't think about.
Definitely need more development, especially in battery technology. Battery technology advancements is significantly important in a wide variety of fields.
“That’s why you see a ton of pickup trucks, because one day they might need to buy mulch” I’m dead 😂
The first generation trucks in the pipeline look very promising though.
@William Arrington 1000 lbs of torque seems enough.
@William Arrington Acceleration is a torque thing not a power thing or an energy thing. Electric motors have essentially the same torque at all speeds while internal combustion engines have poor torque at low speed. That's why multi-speed transmissions are a thing.
@William Arrington you wouldn't pull a house trailer with a F-150. But just look what Mercedes-Benz is doing with their electric airplanes. Plus new battery technology in the pipeline that will change everything probably this decade. where I live in South Florida you can get all over Florida no problem with fast charging stations everywhere. I don't own an electric car and when more people start buying than the infrastructure will probably be overwhelmed but so far it's keeping up.
frank lovejoy the joke is actually at the expense of people currently buying gas/diesel trucks
You have just made an epic quote: “car buying is an emotional experience; it’s not a logical experience”. And that, sir, is 100% correct!
True. That's why most people can't be good salespeople; one really needs to tap into his/her emotional side
Yet EV's are still winning because they are just better cars, even from an emotional perspective.
...and that's why I'm driving a 1965 Buick in -30 weather
@@seybertooth9282 That is highly subjective. Emotionally, a knarly V8 muscle car with a 6-speed stick behind it gets MY blood pumping...
@@seybertooth9282 "evs are winning" by what measure? they are still a tiny subset of total vehicles sold. Im all for ev's and have a cybertruck perorder. but they arnt winning YET at all
We have a garage and require two cars in our family. Several years ago I replaced my hybrid with a full electric vehicle and I can tell you it has been absolutely great! 80% we all hop into the electric to drive around town. When we need to pick up large items or want to travel, we use the other vehicle. It’s not at all a hassle. If someone fits the criteria (family, needs two cars, has a garage) I really recommend trying it. The cost savings has been amazing!
Wait until electricity prices catch up with reality then check the 'cost savings'. In a few years governments will also introduce per-mile road pricing to recoup the petrol and diesel taxes they are no longer getting. The costs of running an electric car will then be massive. At the moment they are effectively subsidised for you because all the fuel taxes are only being collected from other peoe.
have the $$$$ as well , don't forget that and for how long will that recharge remain "free"
@@imarobot3757 Well, in my case the car was incredibly cheap. I purchased a used car that was likely a compliance car purchased at auction and shipped out of California. I suspect that since people where I live despise the idea of electric cars, it was priced to move. Lucky me! 😀 Also, my house is a prime candidate for solar panels and when we get to the point that we need to replace our current roof, we will be absolutely doing that.
@@davidwebb2318 That’s one way of seeing it, but it feels like a lot of speculation about what might happen in the future. I don’t see why such a per-mile tax would be anything more that matching any tax that fuel users currently pay, and that is hardly the largest factor contributing to the cost of gas, right? If I am ask to somehow pay a little bit to help maintain roads because I am not buying gas and that’s how the state is generating revenue to do that, I don’t have a problem with it. Do you believe that such a tax would completely erase the cost savings I have seen? I am very confident it will not. Hey, if the cost advantage goes away, I can always just do what most people do and buy a gas powered vehicle. I don’t really see it as an issue. Until then I am quite happy. Time will tell. 😀
@@murdockscott If you live in Florida or some place like Arizona I can totally see local govts and business being threatened by all your efficiency , when they would much prefer you stay stuck in the past. It did happen with solar panels in AZ.
Bu then you have places like Texas, which has found green energy to be quite economical. Money always talks loudest, especially when politicians are involved. Dog Speed !
Just discovered this channel. Brilliant explanations….love the science and tech focus.
"Car buying is a very emotional experience not a logical experience" So much truth.
"A lot of people buy pickup trucks because one day they _might_ need to buy mulch" So much more truth.
I agree that tis is a thing. However, when I heard this my first thought that came to mind is that if you only use a pickup that rarely it might make more sense to buy a sedan or SUV and then rent a pickup for the rare times that you need a truck. Of course if you use a truck more often then this might not make sense.
I think the truck statement is a bit out of touch and definitely urban-centric. Trucks are core to the occupational and recreational needs of many millions of folks in the US and Canada.
@@bennyflint I totally agree. My comment was a reflection of my own circumstances and does not neccecariliy apply to other folks situation. After all not everybody can fit into the same usage case as everybody else around them.
For myself I probably would find a use for a truck maybe once every year or two. On the other hand my brother uses his truck multiple times a week due to his lifestyle and the work he does.
It's not limited to pick ups being illogical hoenstly it's all car bodys.
Sports cars are just a want and not logical. At all.
Sedans are not a sports car and not as practical as a hatchback. (I mean if you want a good handling car why are you getting a larger car. A 2 door car would be better. I think as it's less weight)
In terms of trucks I am surprised to see a lot if them get used more than I would think. But if I see a kid driving it I assume it's just the car their parents gave them or they love trucks.
Oh and cars and hatches are so limited and will always be trapped on roads and cant get over curbs.
Point being: I dont think any car body style can be truely a logical decision as all have to make a sacrifice.
@@baronvonjo1929 I'm in the category of i got one economical car and then i got my other toys and trucks
Mazda:cleaner combustion engine
Also mazda: brap brap brap brap brap Doritos
That's one of the reasons that they stopped making Doritos
@@nice1149ss despite of that they're still trying
@@Johnnyynf yes they are still trying to make that legendary engine
apex seal flavored doritos are best doritos
@@jasonyoung6420 lmao
It's now almost 2023. How well has this video aged, Jason?
Great video but there is a significant flaw in one of your primary examples - energy density. The point you're making is entirely valid - and is in fact the key challenge BEVs face versus ICEs. But - numerically you've made an error that must be corrected. You state - correctly - that gasoline contains ~33 kWh of energy per gallon. However, this is thermal energy, not mechanical energy. We must use a device - in this case a gasoline IC engine - to convert that heat to mechanical energy. That is done with relatively low efficiency, limited by the laws of thermodynamics. As an example, in typical driving, it might be less than 1/3. (That means about 2/3 of that energy simply is released as heat.) We'll use 28% as a typical figure. As for the electric motor/inverter, it is going to convert the electrical energy in the battery to mechanical energy at something like 90% (and we must account for battery losses of perhaps 0.5%). For those getting giddy about this seemingly greater efficiency of the electric powertrain - remember that this low-efficiency conversion from thermal energy still must still happen in an electric power generation plant somewhere upstream that in most cases was necessary (and will remain necessary for decades) to bring charge to the vehicle's battery. But I digress. In the end, equating the useful mechanical power at the output of the e-motor and the IC engine - we get something like 1 gallon of gasoline as equivalent to about 11 kWh for a Li-ion pack. Diesel fuel has about 14% greater energy density (volumetrically) than gasoline, and Diesel ICE's are also more thermally efficient. Using 33% for a typical Diesel ICE efficiency, the numbers come to 1 gallon of Diesel fuel being about a 15 kWh Li-ion battery pack equivalent. These are still absolutely horrible numbers for the battery packs in comparison to most fuels, to be sure, but it's important to get this right. The chief advantage of the BEV (or a hybrid) is its ability to recover most of the energy otherwise lost to braking in the ICE vehicle, thus squeezing more range out of its small "fuel tank". But - where brakes are used little - such as in highway driving - this advantage disappears and the BEV has a real range problem. Battery weight (versus that of liquid fuel) is also a huge issue as you show, reducing vehicle payload. And that's not to mention all of the issues with high or low ambient temperatures and their effects on batteries..... There is a place for BEVs, surely. But they are no panacea and IC engined vehicles WILL be around for a long time.
Guess everyone ignores this critical info lol
Indeed, all that gasoline energy only equates to ~20miles.
One way to increase ICE efficiencies at least a little, and make gas cheaper is to get rid of ethanol.
@@liamonoanonymous6642 Yep.
Yes, that omission undermines the video.
Jason "an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible" Fenske
I thought the same thing! 😆
You are mistaken about the effeciency of coal power plants and the fact that the world is RAPIDLY moving away from it. In my state, we have NO coal power generation. FUD response.
@@terrylane1492 it's down at 25% as a nation now in the US and NG and wind the largest replacers right now most places...
@@lylestavast7652 coal is falling out of favor only because of the rise of wind and solar power, but not for the reason you think. Coal works best when used in a boiler plant. You can't just turn a boiler on or off on demand. It takes hours to bring one online, and it takes hours to safely bring them offline. So they're great for __stable__ baseline load needs, assuming you're otherwise in compliance with other environmental regulations.
But reality is, that natural gas burns more cleanly than most forms of coal. Which makes environmental compliance costs for emission abatement lower, in addition to being much easier to transport as either a liquid or gas rather than in a solid such as is the case with Coal. This also isn't to mention the coal-ash problems, and a slew of other solid and liquid waste issues specific to coal. Meanwhile, the newest Natural Gas Power plants are turbine plants, not boilers, and they can be brought online quickly and easily when the green power sources aren't producing, and can be easily taken offline when the green power sources are producing. Something that cannot be done with a boiler.
Nuclear Power is experiencing a comparable because it also operates as a boiler plant, they take hours to bring up to full power, and hours to bring offline. It doesn't lend itself well to the "spiky" power grid that large scale Wind and Solar operations often introduce into a power grid.
“This is more than just a plan to make my groceries tax deductible”.
It was still part of the plan though, wasn’t it?
yer and he owns shares in la croix ticker symbol FIZZ
BenCodes Played his cards didn’t he?
Bein self employed I get this though. no shame! Just make aaaallllll the things tax deductible :P
Very nice presentation. You are a wonderful teacher. Keep up the good work !
Great video thank you however I would like to see added to your contact the resale value of the vehicle. My neighbor bought an electric vehicle for his daughter used. The battery pack went dead and needed to be replaced and it was almost $16,000 when he only paid $8000 for the vehicle. The used car market and resale value should absolutely be considered in your analysis of cost of ownership. Once consumers see that buying an electric vehicle used is not an option because of the above there will be no resale value for these vehicles they will be used for five years maybe 10 years and throw away
Exactly why I don't buy a used electric car.
A good basis to find out impact on used car market - Toyota Prius.
Have an '08 with 272k miles. Replaced battery pack at the 268k point. Those batteries are also nickel based not lithium ion. When buying a used car, hybrid or EV, you now have to run a full diagnostic on remains battery life. Try that at a used car dealership. Good luck with that!
"this is more than an elaborate plan to make my groceries Tax Deductible"
idk why but I didn't think i could love him more till he said that, the absolute genius
True x
Ikr same
Today I'm going to describe energy density using Filet Mignon, Lobster, and magnums of Champagne. I''ve invited special guest consultant Guga from Sous Vid Everything to help me make dinn...I mean sense of all of this.
*genius ?
"Now if this demonstration doesn't make sense let me give you an example with some steak and vegetables".
As an electrical engineer, I can assure you that as batteries become more compact, the increased energy per volume will simply make the battery that much more dangerous to breakdown, outgassing, and explosive decomposition. In fact, the risk of fire will far surpass that of gasoline per volume. This is not a simple issue.
why is the risk greater than one of a gasoline car? gasoline is more energy dense already.
All this reminded me of was when Tony Stark crushed that reactor in his hand in Iron Man 2 that he ripped from the bad guy. If those reactors really store as much energy as the movies state, the releasing of that energy should have been devastating.
Well Scion Power is marketing a 400Wh/kg (810Wh/L) battery already. Maybe we'll see such cells in 600-750 mile EVs or even aircraft within the next 3 years.
I believe solid state cells that will at least double the density and halve the charge time to 80% will go mainstream around 2026/2027 and beyond.
A model 3 contains the equivalent 2.3 gallons of gasoline in chemical energy.
As if gas engines, with fuel systems the length of the car are NOT inherently fire risks? The chances of a fire, per mile driven, is 90% LESS for EV's.
Best overall is a plug-in hybrid where no outside charging station is needed. Also the plug-in hybrids often lack a spare tire and this means if a flat does occur the owner is going to need to get a flat bed tow truck to take their car to a tire store (if it is open and has the tire that is needed).
2023 Prius PHEV makes sense.
@@BigEightiesNewWave Only comes with tire repair kit. But you can try skate board + jack stand for emergency uses.😉
Something that I continually see as an example, but no one delves too deep into, is that so many EV owners admit they they have to have a second ICE car for road trips, etc. What I never see factored into the cost of owning an EV is the additional cost of the ICE car for back up. Some people will argure "well.... I use the EV for around town and save the cost of the gas". If I still have to have an ICE vehicle, and the only reason I have the EV is to save on gas for around town, I can argue that I can buy a LOT of gas for the cost of the EV. So, if a person still has to own an ICE because the EV won't do what THEY need to do then it's hardly cost effective to own both.
i lost it when he said pamplemousey
Andrew Osswald you spelt Pamplemousse incorrectly. French for Grapefruit .
@@bobcobbob3641 Knock knock.Anyone home?
Isn't it pronounced pample moooose?
What did you lose?
Personally I chuckled at the "this is more than an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible" LOL!
I own an electric car but yes, energy density is a big current hurdle. The other issue is when the petrol tank is empty, it’s light, when a battery is empty it still weighs the same :(
While true the engine, gearbox and clutch do t decrease in weight so it's not as wide a margin as this video indicates.
With Prius Gen2 there is 30kg battery (NiMH, so could be lighter Li)
No gearbox or clutch, just crown-planet-sun, could be lighter, but what is minimum safe load per axle from point of view of aquaplane and wind shear, bit of your maths required here !
Yeah! Freakin heavy!!
The tank goes from full to empty so its average mass for the trip is half
Just because "engineering explained" has a tesla it doesn't mean he may not be getting kickbacks for big oil. This video was one sided
I want to watch a video on the comparison of end of life of ev vs ice cars. For instance, what will the environmental impact be ten years hence, if all cars were ev's instead of ice's.
All the mining that is needed for EVs?
Scary
EV battery recycling is scaling up. A typical process is to discharge the pack, shred the modules whole, magnetically separate the powders into a black mass (Ni, Co, Fe) and a white mass (Li, Mn etc.), then process those as ultra-mineral-rich synthetic ores using conventional mining techniques. After the silicon chip shortage is over, mineral supply is probably going to be the biggest bottleneck for EV production, so these recycled powders are going to become pretty valuable.
EV battery packs will need serious mining of lithium, nickel and cobalt, particularly during the scale-up phase. It is dirty, unglamourous work, but don't forget that fossil fuel mining and refining is just as dirty, if not more so, before the fuel even goes into your tank.
Regarding EV maintenance, keep in mind that replacing the battery pack can be prohibitively expensive if not covered by warranties.
Electric: I'm the future
Gasoline: I'm more energy dense than you
Hydrogen: Hold my beer
Uranium: Did you guys say something?
Yeah I'm sure we want everybody driving nuclear accelerators around at 60mph all the time and being responsible for their own maintenance.
Wasn't there a car in the 80's that had a nuclear reactor? Ran on plutonium....Could also be fitted with a lightning rod in case you didn't have any plutonium
@@credits00 Yeah I think somebody made a three part documentary about that car.
Gasoline: I'm more energy dense than any current battery tech
Batteries: Remind me how you transfer energy from gasoline into motion
Future: How's your energy density improved since we last met, gasoline?
👁 👁
👄
The general public (3.3k) had to use Google to understand 🤣
For anyone wondering why fuel has so much more energy density than batteries: Fuel requires oxygen, which isnt stored in the car. By being able to take in oxygen along the way without storing it significantly reduces the mass that needs to be transported. In order to burn 1kg of octane it takes over 2kg of oxygen.
While this doesnt account for everything, it makes it much trickier for any alternative energy storage technology to be taken seriously.
One day the world will realize that petroleum is the second most abundant liquid on Earth after water, the greenest liquid on Earth after water, and it is Earth's synovial fluid, the lubricant for the massive tectonic plates. I wonder how long before the UN cabal convinces the world that diamonds come from petrified dinosaur kidneys? Petroleum is made with hydrogen and carbon with heat and pressure, then oozes at approximately 30k feet beneath Earth. Fossils CANNOT exist past 15k feet, but Rockefellers paid scientists convinced the Geneva Convention successfully on premature science. Then it is burned to harness its gorgeous energy to gas form where the upper atmospheres of the earth process the gasses for the earth's greens to consume. The carbon then settles from the roots of the trees down to create more black gold. Water cycle anyone? Same ****. Global warming and climate change is NOT caused by humans, but by the Sun's 300 year cycle, confirmed by NASA, and we're right now exiting solar cycle 24 to 25. The ONLY way to stop the drops in temperature is to ban the sun through legislation...
@@executor142
WOWOWOWOWOW!!!! Its so sad how rare it is to come across and read an actual intelligent comment on youtube!!!!
THANKS FOR SHARING SOME AWESOME INTERESTING INFORMATION AND IDEAS WITH ME REAL QUICK MAN!!!
HAPPY FRIDAY!
HAVE FUN AND BE SAFE!!!
@@executor142 "..the greenest liquid on Earth after water.." Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
@goodfella21f, try watching the video again. Electric cars are barely viable. Internal combustion engines are still king.
In other words; to equal the energy density of petroleum the batteries would hold the same energy as a B*mb.
Imagine if they actually make diesel-electric engines and use the engine to power the motors
It’s like an EV with a micro power plant in it
Hyundai has decided to try out a Hydrogen electric concept and might make it a reality. So you're not too far off.
Like a freight train engine? It could work!😁
This is basically exactly what Honda are doing with new Civic hybrids - the engine acts as a generator for the electric motor, operating at optimal rpm’s for efficiency.
@@athena3234yeah but they are not doing It with diesel, if they did diesel hybrids, It would be close 80-90mpg
Thanks for the class. Great video
Rolling blackouts in California may hinder a driving schedule.
Side Note: As of yet. There have been no rolling blackouts that I know of. We'll see later in the coming month(s) when it gets more hot.
”May” :-D
Exactly, aging fragile grid can not even handle the current load now. Wait till we start trying to shift all of our transportation to electric. Going to be a shitshow
Well then they will have to take the electric bus. Oh wait, I guess that won't work either. Rickshaw?
Quite right - and I have it on very good authority that it's becoming worse, virtually by the day !!
I still drive an old 90s honda civic
Pilsman And thats still better for the environment they buying a new Ev.
I still drive a 90’s Toyota. I just saw a $500 Civic though so I might pull the trigger on that
I ❤️ my Honda! 99 civic
That's right! It's tried and true, practical, fuel efficient, and long lasting technology. My wife drives an '89 Nissan that she bought when it was a year old! It gets good fuel economy, and it's more environmentally friendly.
Easy to steal those u can get master keys for them otherwise it’s a great car
Great explanation of energy density.
Happy, to see you had the time to show the big picture, enjoyed keep it up...
"Marketing is the business of teaching you what you want to buy."
nicely said :)
More famously: "Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your way."
Absolutely, why he is so against of ev, all the videos you see, its all about why dont have to buy evs
@@kabirc1259 You don't seem to understand his message.
There is a common thread among some ICE fans. That EVs are trying to takeover the entire market. That the government will, if left unchecked, have us all driving Leafs and Priuses and never get to tow your boat to the lake again. Total nonsense. Most EV fans envision a world with every kind of motor on the road. Whatever fits your lifestyle and wishes the best.
Marketers hate me because I steadfastly ignore them about 99% of the time, focusing instead on things like quality, convenience, reputation, and value for MY needs. I refuse to watch cable TV and listen to OTA radio due to ALL the annoying commercials.
And when I actually WANT to know stuff about a product, well, there's this thing called the internet to do a lot of research on.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the public just lets themselves be sold/hoodwinked.
"We'd all be driving old 90s honda civics, but we're not"
Heh, you don't know your subscribers
I am and I have been saving for years loads of holidays. Just the fact I'm not buying a car every 5 yr and maintenance is peanuts compared to a new car.
Also making new cars even by recycling has a heavy environmental effect. It's all about the marketing and convincing the consumers they need a new car.
Seems to be working with you.
Agreed. '92 Civic VX, 228,899 miles, 99 hp of fuel-efficient fury.
OK, the fury is from drivers stuck behind me while going uphill, but the car is super reliable.
90's Hondas are rad! "All" is the keyword there, if you look around some people are driving different cars haha.
1990 Ed7 here lol
@kkthxk sensible gen y people buy 90s hondas
sensible gen z people buy 2000s toyotas 😔
Great video! I'd like to see a 10 year comparison between an EV and a gas car with all variables included that take a toll on the planet, such as mining, assembly, charging, driving, and eventually the impact of disposal. I believe, in the end, that the EV is not 2x more clean. It just appears that way to those in the middle of the entire process - the user. All the other variables are often ignored or not considered by the user. I'm not against EV, but I think it makes a better informed consumer to have all the info and that inherently will transmit back into the companies to improve an overall better process for whichever technology will have the best benefit in the end. To borrow a phrase for Thomas Sowell, we all should get better at looking past stage one.
i think they should just find ways to improve on the internal combustion engine instead of wiping it out and instead of forcing ev’s when technology gets more advanced it should be natural
It's also impossible to put one out once on fire who's gonna move that thing off the freeway after an accident and it decides to catch fire? Definitely no one with a brain. They aren't as environmentally friendly as one would think.
EVs are certainly not the future
@@JosmersueroEVs are definitely the future
@@youseflatif796 definitely not
Shout out from Yemen! Keep up the good and unbiased informative content.
13:15 That drift tho !
Crosstreks are SO sick, everyone knows it.
Sorry jesse you are the first one to die
هههههههه
OK, that is the best comment.
Ken Block Crosstrek
"We'd all be driving old 90's Honda Civics"
You have no idea....
I'd like to but the stanceboi tax is real.
The day when my d series motor dies my soul will breathe its last.
That actually would've been a great future.
50 mpg lets goooooo bois
@@starvalkyrie After my 93 Accord got totalled, I was trying to find a replacement honda. Too many used one were riced out with busted up/incomplete body kits and blown motors. Clean ones were out of my price range and even stock ones with expected wear were still up in price.
So, I wasn’t familiar with La Croix soda. I came across it at the supermarket today and bought some 😅. Great video BTW. Subscribed.
Like all your videos, great explanations, numbers and proven facts. And wide open eyes and mind
....
"Now this isn't just an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductible"
He is saying that it *IS* a plan to make his groceries tax deductible.
I was mildly critical of his choice in cars.
I am very critical of his choice in groceries.
psikogeek thanks Sherlock
Dear EE: just like there's TCO, there's also total environmental impact.
I'd like to know how much environmental impact there is for gasoline, like drilling, refining, etc. vs lithium batteries mining rare earth metals, polluted water, etc. Then disposal of the used batteries. Not to mention, some (much?) of the electricity comes from fossil fuels anyway, so then it seems like electric cars are just an indirect way to use fuel.
This is a serious question, I hope it doesn't read like it's negative; I'm honestly curious.
Dont forget the oil that goes into making all the plastic right? Or did they invent a way now to use vegatable oil? Then the question of what happens when a parasite infects crops, or droughts/flooding etc. This creates a shortage on vegetable oil ... drives up the price of feed and a price increase chain reaction occurs. I'd like someone to throw this question at Greta the brilliant climatologist.
I think he made a video about that, or it was a similar TH-camr. They found out that even in a state with the most coal power (west Virginia?) It's still less CO2 over time than a gas car. EVs produce a lot of CO2 when they get built but a lot less when they're used, while normal cars are the opposite. Also usually the impact of trucking fuel to gas stations isn't calculated in the environmental impact of gasoline/diesel
@@Dongonzales123 less co2? Maybe, but I'd have to see the study. But that's precisely one factor out of many that the OP asked about. Environmental impact isn't just about co2, it's a much bigger topic. Several facets of which the OP asked about. Strip mining rare earth metals. Polluted water. Manufacturing of the batteries. Disposal of the batteries. Etc. Co2 is a factor of course, but by far not the only one.
@@Dongonzales123 There is no "free" form of energy. The anti-EV crowd makes a lot of noise about the environmental impact of alternative fuels (both electricity and hydrogen fuel cell technology) but there is simply no evidence that such fuels don't provide net savings in terms of both individual consumer costs and environment impacts.
My thoughts exactly. No comparison is ever complete without the entire supply chain being taken into consideration (cradle to grave).
Hey guy I like your videos and you are a cool dude. Thank you for making awesome and educational content. Wish you the best!
What a great video. You definately have the skills for making them as well as being an excellent presenter.
10:00 “You knew I was gonna work the whiteboard into this video”. 🤣
Very well said. The only thing I think you could have also mentioned is that there is a huge efficiency loss with the weight of the fuel source itself being less dense. Same problem rockets have. It takes for example 40% of the energy in the battery just to move the weight of the batteries themselves. Eventually the benefit of adding more batteries for more capacity exceeds the benefits due to their own weight!
He on the other hand did not mention that an EV can take 80+% of the stored energy and transform it into motion, while the gasoline engine only converts 20% into motion. The rest is just wasted as heat.
@@JohnDoe-bd5sz yup
"Wasted" as heat if you live in an area that isn't cold.
He is objectively wrong! He ignores how much emissions just getting the lithium takes! Oh and the power is derived from COAL! And please don't humiliate yourself claiming wind solar will cut it - ask Germany - they are the highest wind/solar power in the world, and they are dependent on Russian oil!
@Molt See if you can spot the oncoming disaster: It takes 84K gallons of fuel to produce EACH EV battery (21 billions gallons per year just to mine the heavy metals required for 250,000 batteries VS 19 billion gallons of fuel for the ENTIRE airline industry WORLDWIDE) - Per the US Dept of Transportation. PS - There is NO CURRENT ability to effectively recycle the used batteries…. The battery in an average Tesla is comprised of 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel and plastic… 1000+ pounds of minerals that had to be mined, transported and processed into a battery that stores electricity…. which was generated by oil, gas, coal or water…
Infrastructure is a huge issue. If you have an older home with say 100 amp service, you may need to upgrade your electrical panel to handle the extra load EVs require. Upgrading to 200 amp service can be quite expensive and a hidden cost of EVs. Places like Washington are trying to get rid of gas appliances in homes. Meaning your range, dryer, furnace and EV would all require double 15+ amp breakers. Running the above appliances could easily max out a 100 amp panel. And that's just charging at home. Provided you own/rent one.
Great video, on a factual note, I am sitting in my diesel F250, getting gas for my two scags, to go mow more yards.
Often when I push throttle, I am still amazed at the amount of energy a small amount of liquid has just produced.
Same :)
Me too that's why I love cars so much is the little stuff like that.
Buy a big motored quad
@@Randomguydrm Example?
@@Brahmdagh any 450 sport quad, or 250 and up 2 stroke
Energy density is a valid point to be considered when comparing gas vs. lithium cells. However, gasoline engines have much lower efficiency ratings than electric motors. So the the gas may have more energy per liter, but only about 25-30% of that energy will be used to take you from point A to point B in the car. The rest of that energy is lost to heat and noise.
Exactly! This video is short-sighted with that point.
Yuppp a 2017 would tesla would give 100 miles for 33kwh, while the best combustion engine would give you like 30miles for 33kwh. And in 2020 im sure electric cars are even more efficient. And in 10 years you’ll probably get 300miles for 33kwh.
A 2020 Tesla Model 3 looks like its gonna get 133 miles per 33 kwh
But you do have to generate the electricity to put in the battery not to mention the energy costs associated with the manufacture of the electric vs gas cars which would interesting to look at.
And that's why you get a diesel
I may have missed it, but it seems like all you talked about initially is energy density of the fuel source. But did you also calculate the efficiency of the powertrains? At most a modern ICE is 40% efficient, a modern electric vehicle powertrain is 90% efficient. Unless I missed something your battery/gasoline comparison differential is less than half what you visualized.
Nice realist explanation and thought processes.
Everyone else: I deducted my property taxes
EE: Hold my LaCroix!
Lol
hold my pamplemousey
LaCroix is a toilet cleaner in France.
@@alternatemusicaddict5226 That made me laugh. In French, E is silent and it means grapefruit.
Why can't I be funny like this guy😁. Good one bro
I could listen to this guy talk about automotive engineering all day. ☠💀☠
Ronald Luther this isn’t engineering,it’s more like business
It's oil industry garbage.
see my comment on why he is wrong. He made a fundamental engineering mistake
with his catalog, you can!
I may not agree with everything you present but I really appreciate your approach and fairness presented.
Thx, this is a great perspective to compare electronic car with gasoline car. Plus, you gasoline will never have the aging issue as the battery does
Here in Africa.. the combustion engine is gonna be around for a very long long time. Can't imagine going into the game park with an electric car.. nahh
I think the big oil producing countries will still push the antiquated gas motored polluter cars, and their populations will die a lot sooner from all the pollution, but they don't care about that.
You never know... Africa mostly skipped over landline telephones and went straight to cellular. As technology continues to progress, less developed countries get to skip entire generations of tech.
Setting up solar arrays, wind farms, geothermal, and who even knows whats next, will greatly propel everyone forward.
EVs are perfect for Africa except for the corruption that allows coal power to flourish. 140 years ago, horsemen would say they could imagine going any where in a jeep. Because at the time, they didn’t understand or had not seen a jeep.
@@joeking433 Or maybe some people cant afford a $60,000 Tesla. Please go back to smelling your own farts.
@@joeking433 It's the exact same game as the tobacco people play. As the US and Europe started to realize that cigarettes were killing people and pushed to stamp out their use - the tobacco people just moved into the emerging markets. As of today, the ten countries with the highest rates of smoking are Kribati, Nauru, Greece, Serbia, Russia, Jordan, Indonesia, Bosnia/Herzogovinia, Lebanon and Chile. Expect the ICE car makers to follow that game book.
"now this is more than just an elaborate plan to make my groceries tax deductable" hahahah
Take the tax deduction anyway, you earned it.
OMG that was hillarious.
Great video ! I have test-driven a Tesla and loved it. But they don’t fit my purpose yet, which is occasionally carrying more than 5 relatives on weekends, sometimes. The energy density will improve, and recycling will improve, hopefully soon.
Another important aspect. As the batteries are heavier, you need stronger suspension, bigger brakes, etc. And that eats up part of the environmental gain from a BEV.
And they get through tyres faster because of the weight.
If you bother to do a simple search u ll find out that a lot of current ev s ( i say current because tec is advancing fast in this department) are roughly the same weight of their ice counterparts , only with the exception of heavy duty extremely high horspower electric vehicles (exp hummer ev and similar trucks) , mainly due to removing a lot of the the ice drivetrain components including the heavy engine, which in return offset the batteries weight ... talking about bigger brakes suspension waisting more tires etc ... Is complete non sense
@@Zenvo-uu9tm hmmm
KIA EV6 weight = 2200 KG
VW Passat weight = 1500 KG
Absolutely. That is one reason EVs cost more, it is not only the battery that costs money.
It wears parts/tires out faster and makes it ride / handle worse.
Can we just take a moment to admire the editing at 3:59. Seamless!
If it was seamless you would not have noticed.
i was checking for this comment
Andrew Demidov
If it wasn’t seamless it would not have been admirable.
It's not an "edit" in the way I think you mean. The stack of cans was just replicated with visual effects.
Nice editing tho
I lost it at "pample-mousey" 😂
I had to do a double take to make sure I heard that right.
Haha you have to pronounce : pam plah mooss. (Grapefruit)
Excellent excellent video - you knocked it out of the park!
As many said it already…amazing video. And for all the data and science to help shine the light on things from your views. :).
You didn't mention energy efficiency, power conversion between electric and fuel cars are significantly different.
This. The gas car *has to* carry a ton of energy around because it throws 80% away.
I was also disappointed that this point wasn’t raised.
And the energy lost while charging the battery. And the energy lost in heating up the battery in cold weather(yes it needs to be heated else it's worthless)
Missing this makes the comparison pretty much pointless.
@@crushl2451 Not pointless, just less stark. It means the comparison is off by a factor of MPG/MPGe. In today's cars, electric motors are about 2.5 times more efficient than I.C. engines. The energy/weight and energy/volume handicap is "only" about 40% as bad as stated in the video.
While we're at home self-isolating, electric and gasoline perform identically in the garage.
Not really xD
...except those people without an automobile aren't paying for either! And just because you are quaranteened doesn't mean your car payments are suspended!
@@sarahhaugh7922 this is literally the best time to do fun stuff with your car since nobodys on the road
Wrong. You can huff the gasoline.
@@calska140 but you can give yourself pleasurable tingles with electricity
Would be interesting to get an 2023 update regarding the current battery energy density
Also Eletric cars do not work good in extreme cold either as the cold will drain that battery, or if the battery has a heater it will use alot of power to keep it warm to prevent it
Pampelmousey, lol that killed me.
But yes, that is the best flavor!
Dude that’s French for grapefruit
@@nicolasboivin9746 Yea....welcome to the joke my guy.
That moment when I’m reading the comment at the exact time it happens in the video!!! 😆
So funny!!!!
Not only is it difficult for people in apartments to own EVs, but people who rent houses have less control over what kind of charging system they can install in their garage and may be limited to 110v.
new Laws went into effect for Some states Jan 2020, Landowners MUST provide L2 charging at RENTAL homes for 100% of Parking spaces, and for Apartments and Condos , must provide 10% of Units Total.
@@markplott4820 What states and/or laws are you referring to?
@@markplott4820 If that is indeed a law passed recently, it's going get struck down so hard. That's an idiotic regulation that only massively increases cost and curbs any desire to expand the rental market.
@@JARiS1005
Oh boo hoo why won't anyone think of the poor landlords?
There's already an overabundance of rental units and it's not helping potential tenants or homeless people get in any easier.
Jorge Rivera Come on how much does it cost to throw in a 220 V outlet in the garage next to nothing and it’s probably tax deductible. You’re paying off some guys mortgage why not have the ability to charge electric car too.
As always I love to learn about whatever Jason Fenske is talking about. Several people below have made great comments on what this video missed. In the end to be completely accurrate several things need to be compared. They are: total drive train weight as compaired to space and range. Utility of each type of vehicle. Environmental impact to manufacture each type. Recyleability of used parts either by repurposing into unrelated items or for repairing other similar vehicles. And cost of fuel, i.e. electricity to charge batteries as opposed to refining oil into gasoline. (For example electricity from nuclear produces less radioactive waste per kilowatt than wind power because of the matiriels required to manufature the wind generators.) And cost per mile. It is posible to make an internal combustion engine go 200K miles or more and then the metal can be melted down and used for something else. How far can a set of lithium batteries get you before it is no onger going to hold a charge? And we must ask what do we do with it after that. Just a few things to chew on. I liked DG Grossman's observation about efficiency as well. The bigest reason we don't use steam locomotives any more is that the loss of energy. If they have developed the steam turbine before the diesel electic hybrid things might have been different. There is still more politics in it than there should be. And forcing ethanol into the picture isn't helping the environment either. for now HFC is limited by energy cost to produce what is needed but it has some potential. I'd like to see hybrid cars that work like the trains do, gas engine to generate the electricity to power the electric motor and skin all the batteries.