So I check his twitch VODs to get to the bottom of it. And he not only pauses the timer but he also tried the run off-stream for a couple of hours. It should be unecessary to say that but omg stop being so harsh to one another...
10:02 - From the AI's point of view, Trackmania is turn-based. The AI looks at the game state every frame and determines it's response. Each frame can be seen as a discrete move.
Yeah. The real issue with Trackmania is that defining "good" in it is very difficult. Chess is inherently a very logical game so getting computers to understand it is relatively easier than in a way more free game like trackmania.
@@frosthammer917The real problem is that AI makers can't speed up training significantly. At best they can spin up a few dozen instances of the game. This slow training in turn doesn't allow for many different approaches to training or the freedom of letting the AI figure it out on its own.
They used reinforcement learning so from the AI's point of view it's more like being a blindfolded monkey locked in a cage being administered electric shocks.
@@00wolfer00 another big issue is the amount of different moves it can make at any given moment and how many it takes to finish a track, with chess seeing every single possibility 10 moves down the line is pretty insane, with trackmania that's only seeing a fraction of a second ahead. This makes it impossible to brute force it they way chess engines largely do.
In the end, with track specific training, an AI is no different than a TAS run. It‘s just an automated way of finding the inputs. The really cool thing to be looking out for is generalization, in other words, how good can an AI get at adapting to new tracks it hasn‘t seen. This is what humans are so incredibly good at.
I recommend looking at the video about the AI because the guy also raised the same problem and trained it for another track (that is much less predictable) but in a way that it can do a very good time no matter what section of said track it is racing on. Once again, check the original video, it's very cool stuff ^^
Arguably the overwall strat *is* proving that you're better than the ai, because it displays your human intuition and creativity in finding a solution that requires you to think outside the box
That's only because these AI have very simple algorithm, can't really think out of the box and make creative solutions.. but guess what.. it's already possible in other games, just nobody tried to do it in Trackmania.
while this may be true, this is due to the ai not being able to run extreme amounts of iterations in a short enough amount of time to be efficient and also a relatively simple algorithm in other games, ai have found game/physics breaking glitches that it constantly abuses after it discovers it
I saw someone say "how to train your dragon" in the (scrolling very fast) chat, or so I thought, so it may have been the music that was playing on stream at the time. Either way, absolute banger OST!
Glad "How To Train Your Dragon" soundtrack was playing during his victory. Epic soundtrack to play when showing that humans are still better than AI (for now).
As an American being, hearing about no tipping in other countries is wild. But then I remember that other countries that don't do tipping tend to pay liveable wages, and it makes sense. (Edited for spelling and grammar)
It a livable wage but if your a doctor do you want to be paid the same livable wage as a taxi driver? no... so you go to america so you can make a bunch of money, hence why america has the best doctors
@WirtualTV I have an idea for a challenge: Make a map for the AI. Set your author time and find out how many training hours it will take for the AI to beat it.
I can respect how wirtual can congregate way too many people who have way too much time on their hands to sit there and watch him try to beat an ai’s time for hours on end
@@larion2336 surely it would fall under TAS leaderboards Not be be used against human players Like a new medal system above author which would be A.I I might be completely wrong, but those are my thoughts.
@@owensbeatedbeans But you could run such a bot via macro software and have it in a live match. It's very possible. Even outside Trackmania I think this is a threat rising AI systems will pose to competitive gaming as a whole, new cheats that just visually analyze what's on screen and react with superhuman precision.
@@larion2336 That's gonna be a long time coming. The AI would have to learn the map in the same amount of time as a human player, including shortcuts, tricks, and other wonky shit, while being better than the humans. If you click on the link to the Yosh video of him training the AI it says he took 3 years to get it to this point on a single, very simple track.
For the bird issue @WirtualTV you can buy a fake owl statue (~$20) to put on your roof or fence to keep smaller birds away. It starts working instantly. Once it goes up the only birds we get are hummingbirds.
From watching the video about the model trained and the methods used (and working in the field) - in fairly sure it's not a "trackmania" ai, it's a "this track" ai. What I mean is, the model can't be easily generalised to another track, for every track you have to start the training epochs from scratch, which is a huge burn of resources. Would be fun (and way harder) to build something that could be pointed at any track and get a fast time. Though it wools still need a few iterations to find a minimum. Kind of like a TAS?
@@rraaiin yes it is easily able to finish other maps. But you will have to fine tune the AI to get competitive runs. Which is what you have to do as a human aswell. Literally just learning the map and finding new ways of driving different type of turns you've never seen before haha I would guess that future videos of him will dive deeper into this topic
@@happygamer787 yes I just chedk the video again. He trained it on the long endurance layout but raced the same AI on the shorter track, which is similar in only having cutable 90° turns but different layout.
@@Takyodor2 faster: No. You need way better Algorithms for that so that's either impossible or it's a long way away. broader: You also need better Algorithms so same answer It also depends on how much power you throw at the PC
10:15 "In a fast paced game like this, I should win" It's the opposite. AIs have no trouble doing frame perfect inputs while slow games like chess allow human computations to have a chance.
does someone know the song at the beginning (begins around 0:18) in the background? I just can't find out what it is, but it sounds so nice :) (I can't find it in the Wirtual playlist on youtube either; but maybe I'm just stupid)
4:55 Considering that Casinos in Vegas typically give the drinks for free, the same amount as the drink is zero. Drinks in Vegas casinos are free because they make it back with the drinks making most people gamble more.
But then Wirtual had this run... *cue music* (run ends) What's next for AI on this track? What's next for Wirtual? What's next for everyone? Who knows. What we do know is that bungee gum has the properties of both rubber and gum.
do this but vs LineSight's Hockolicious AI. flat maps with 1 turn repeated are so tame and dont show of the full power of Ai, just an ability to repeat inputs.
wait. what if we combined the things we love, the pyramids, and wirtual sliding across the floor covered in mayonnaise, and had our boy slide down the side of the great pyramid?
you have bird problems? i suggest putting some kind of fly net in the windows you open most. either the birds are smart enough to see it as a solid obstacle and avoid hitting it, or they are do hit it but get repelled. work well for small to medium birds, insects and even cats. (accidentally tested with our own cat...) anything below crow size can't really damage the net and birds of that size still bounce of, with only minor damage.
10:22 interestingly though, to the AI, Trackmania is turn-based, albeit in a different way. It is much less complicated than chess as chess is bound by combinatoric principles that propagate complexity and variations in outcome with every move. The input was very low resolution among other game parameters provided to the neural network, and the potential subsequent game-state of the next frame has far less variability than in the more discrete nature of chess. (Speaking from ML background and studying CS and math in university)
Want to keep birds out? Having a cardboard cutout of a bird of prey in a window supposedly keeps smaller birds from approaching. It's more for stopping birds flying into windowpanes or attacking their own reflections rather than flying through openings but I can't see how the same trick wouldn't work. (Fun fact: Cardboard cutouts of police officers have been known to discourage crime in humans, and we _know_ it's not a real cop. At least, I hope we do. Right?)
T-pose and yell at the bird. Make yourself look like a threat, and it'll probably never come back again. You're probably getting visited by multiple different birds tho lmao. Maybe get a screen for the window? Also love the vid :D
AI generally hit a point of diminishing returns, similar to human players. If the AI has already been trained for hundreds of hours, another 8 won't necessarily do much
Have people never heard of screens on windows? Wirty you can just get a mesh lining that goes over the outside of your window and boom! No birds in your house.
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
I can only imagine the pain he experienced in the random 5 hour jump that we didn’t even see
especially since he didn't improve at all xD having such a great time that early and then not being able to improve for several hours xd
Also no snarky comment by Buckley so maybe the pain was real and he didn't want to make it worse for once 😂
COTD, you mean
@@SuperMarioOddity mate, he pauses the timer. think for once
So I check his twitch VODs to get to the bottom of it. And he not only pauses the timer but he also tried the run off-stream for a couple of hours.
It should be unecessary to say that but omg stop being so harsh to one another...
10:02 - From the AI's point of view, Trackmania is turn-based. The AI looks at the game state every frame and determines it's response. Each frame can be seen as a discrete move.
Yeah. The real issue with Trackmania is that defining "good" in it is very difficult. Chess is inherently a very logical game so getting computers to understand it is relatively easier than in a way more free game like trackmania.
@@frosthammer917The real problem is that AI makers can't speed up training significantly. At best they can spin up a few dozen instances of the game. This slow training in turn doesn't allow for many different approaches to training or the freedom of letting the AI figure it out on its own.
They used reinforcement learning so from the AI's point of view it's more like being a blindfolded monkey locked in a cage being administered electric shocks.
I mean of course trackmania is turn based? If it wasn't you would just be going in a straight line.
@@00wolfer00 another big issue is the amount of different moves it can make at any given moment and how many it takes to finish a track, with chess seeing every single possibility 10 moves down the line is pretty insane, with trackmania that's only seeing a fraction of a second ahead. This makes it impossible to brute force it they way chess engines largely do.
In the end, with track specific training, an AI is no different than a TAS run. It‘s just an automated way of finding the inputs. The really cool thing to be looking out for is generalization, in other words, how good can an AI get at adapting to new tracks it hasn‘t seen. This is what humans are so incredibly good at.
Exactly, this seems like a very specific scenario. Like you see the ai basically doing the same thing every corner haha
It's just a matter of time until we see Wirtual competing against a general AI on his favorite tracks! I'll give it 3 years
it is different from a TAS run in the way that a human can beat it without cheese
I recommend looking at the video about the AI because the guy also raised the same problem and trained it for another track (that is much less predictable) but in a way that it can do a very good time no matter what section of said track it is racing on.
Once again, check the original video, it's very cool stuff ^^
I feel like tas is stronger because it still has the human ingenuity on it, like the wall bonks and stuff
Arguably the overwall strat *is* proving that you're better than the ai, because it displays your human intuition and creativity in finding a solution that requires you to think outside the box
That's only because these AI have very simple algorithm, can't really think out of the box and make creative solutions.. but guess what.. it's already possible in other games, just nobody tried to do it in Trackmania.
while this may be true, this is due to the ai not being able to run extreme amounts of iterations in a short enough amount of time to be efficient and also a relatively simple algorithm
in other games, ai have found game/physics breaking glitches that it constantly abuses after it discovers it
No, it is beacouse the creator of the AI is punishing the AI for hitting walls
Cope
But the AI has to be taught (programmed) to think outside the box. So That's a limit of the programmer.
The unexpected Wirtual AI arc. It feels like a filler but I'm here for it.
Speak English please
how is this filler
How?????
this is canon
The dedication in this run... "just" to beat an AI record. I'm so impressed ! Congratulation !
Hats off to Buckley for the How to Train Your Dragon music.
are you talking about 15:07? because I’m pretty sure that isn’t from how to train your dragon
@@elianjoensen2756I'm sure he's talking about 11:55
Fr
I saw someone say "how to train your dragon" in the (scrolling very fast) chat, or so I thought, so it may have been the music that was playing on stream at the time. Either way, absolute banger OST!
@@ThomasWinget it was live and not edited even thought it looks like because the drop is exactly when he cross the finish line
Riolu would have already beat this challenge off stream I have no doubts 😂
I wonder if he would run the timer at half speed when he's off-stream.
@@kylehart8829that would be cheating; Riolu wouldn't do that.
@@FullMastFlexoh, obviously. He would never…
@@kylehart8829 riolu is just too good to cheat
He was never cheating! He just presses the buttons faster when offline. They are very noisy and he doesn't want to disturb the ASMR stream.
Glad "How To Train Your Dragon" soundtrack was playing during his victory. Epic soundtrack to play when showing that humans are still better than AI (for now).
As an American being, hearing about no tipping in other countries is wild. But then I remember that other countries that don't do tipping tend to pay liveable wages, and it makes sense.
(Edited for spelling and grammar)
It a livable wage but if your a doctor do you want to be paid the same livable wage as a taxi driver? no... so you go to america so you can make a bunch of money, hence why america has the best doctors
We really don't. A "living wage" in my area doesn't even cover rent with a full time job. It's a socially acceptable level of poverty
@@matt-xe5km lmao incredible how you portrayed ignorance with just this little text. a true american indeed
@@Royli33I've honestly never heard that take from an American. I think they're just one of those people who idealise the us
@@matt-xe5km having a minimum income and having equal pay for everyone are two very different topics.
I have this nightmare where I'm trapped in hell and the only way to escape is to learn trackmania and beat all of Wirtuals PBs
Honestly, you have to give props to Yosh’s ai too though, especially considering it is designed to work on multiple maps with minimal training.
And for days and hours, AI seemed unbeatable and it's dominance seemed absolute. But then, Wirtual got this run. 11:55
came here to do this
lmao wtf is ur pfp xD
@@zbynekbroda4729 Pure perfection.
@WirtualTV I have an idea for a challenge: Make a map for the AI. Set your author time and find out how many training hours it will take for the AI to beat it.
that's a cool idea
The 5 hour jump to get same time again... bruh I don't know where dedication stop and insanity starts but this is close.
He makes millions from this. The true insanity is the viewer who doesn't get paid.
Well done ! holding back the AI tide - probably not for long but it's all good fun
I can respect how wirtual can congregate way too many people who have way too much time on their hands to sit there and watch him try to beat an ai’s time for hours on end
I love the test flight song in the background when he beats the AI
Tipping culture in America is so toxic. Pay your staff the wages they deserve!
tru
But don't forget that until they get the wages they deserve, you're a douche if you don't tip them.
nah
Would love to see this A.I learning to beat world records over time as it’s learning each track / techniques
What happens when they get good enough that someone can make dozens of virtual machines and flood COTD with bots. Div 1 dominated by bots.
@@larion2336 surely it would fall under TAS leaderboards
Not be be used against human players
Like a new medal system above author which would be A.I
I might be completely wrong, but those are my thoughts.
@@owensbeatedbeans But you could run such a bot via macro software and have it in a live match. It's very possible. Even outside Trackmania I think this is a threat rising AI systems will pose to competitive gaming as a whole, new cheats that just visually analyze what's on screen and react with superhuman precision.
@@larion2336 damn to be fair, I see where your coming from
Surely a system could be developed to find these A.I
If it were to happen
@@larion2336 That's gonna be a long time coming. The AI would have to learn the map in the same amount of time as a human player, including shortcuts, tricks, and other wonky shit, while being better than the humans. If you click on the link to the Yosh video of him training the AI it says he took 3 years to get it to this point on a single, very simple track.
I think the angle of this guy is to make a track that is hard for humans but not harder for AI.
Thank goodness Wirtual can drive like a robot.
For the bird issue @WirtualTV you can buy a fake owl statue (~$20) to put on your roof or fence to keep smaller birds away. It starts working instantly. Once it goes up the only birds we get are hummingbirds.
From watching the video about the model trained and the methods used (and working in the field) - in fairly sure it's not a "trackmania" ai, it's a "this track" ai. What I mean is, the model can't be easily generalised to another track, for every track you have to start the training epochs from scratch, which is a huge burn of resources.
Would be fun (and way harder) to build something that could be pointed at any track and get a fast time. Though it wools still need a few iterations to find a minimum. Kind of like a TAS?
didnt the guy test it on a different track to prove it works on any track or am i thinking of a different video
While it can't be generalised to any track, I'm quite sure he proved that it can be generalised to tracks that use the same type of turns/blocks.
@@rraaiin yes it is easily able to finish other maps. But you will have to fine tune the AI to get competitive runs. Which is what you have to do as a human aswell. Literally just learning the map and finding new ways of driving different type of turns you've never seen before haha I would guess that future videos of him will dive deeper into this topic
@@rraaiinNah it's this one but I think he still retrained the ai but the ground rules stayed the same
@@happygamer787 yes I just chedk the video again. He trained it on the long endurance layout but raced the same AI on the shorter track, which is similar in only having cutable 90° turns but different layout.
The AI will get stronger and stronger until no one can beat them no more
And yet humans learn faster and more broadly. ;)
@@burnstick1380...for now
*unplug the PC*
@@Takyodor2 faster: No. You need way better Algorithms for that so that's either impossible or it's a long way away.
broader: You also need better Algorithms so same answer
It also depends on how much power you throw at the PC
And then you throw a map of the day at it and it crashes immediately and bonks against a wall for five hours because it was trained on a single map.
10:10 deve in chat: “just watched the video this is gonna be impossible” !!!!
12:05 Nice music btw.
It brings back old memories :D
beating the ai with that song playing is honestly so perfect
I've heard that birds really don't like the scent of screens over your windows...the stench alone is enough to keep em out 😊
10:15 "In a fast paced game like this, I should win"
It's the opposite. AIs have no trouble doing frame perfect inputs while slow games like chess allow human computations to have a chance.
yet Magnus Carlsen will likely never beat Stockfish ever
@@Lensquik yep. to be fair chess already got a lot more attention from the AI community than TM.
1:08 honestly thought that was the intro to Red Dwarf theme song 😂
Maybe whatever song it is used the intro.
4:25 they invented this thing in my country a while back called a window screen. Very convenient and no creatures get in the house
does someone know the song at the beginning (begins around 0:18) in the background? I just can't find out what it is, but it sounds so nice :) (I can't find it in the Wirtual playlist on youtube either; but maybe I'm just stupid)
Omg the perfect music for the run! Hits me right in the feels bro
4:55 Considering that Casinos in Vegas typically give the drinks for free, the same amount as the drink is zero.
Drinks in Vegas casinos are free because they make it back with the drinks making most people gamble more.
Of course he gets it during the how you train your dragon music. GOAT sound track.
But then Wirtual had this run...
*cue music*
(run ends)
What's next for AI on this track?
What's next for Wirtual?
What's next for everyone?
Who knows.
What we do know is that bungee gum has the properties of both rubber and gum.
nice Mufat you pulled there
Incredible, ando the How to train your dragon theme fit perfectly
Wasn’t expecting the HTTYD music, good choice
started watching trackmania content with Yosh`s last years video. than youtube recommended wirtual, than i startetd playing
"birds are terrible creatures"
well that's rude
Nice video but Yosh didn't said that this AI is unbeatable but he said that only the best player of trackmania can beat it
you havent watched it yet lol
Yes😂 but the titre said it all and it seems like a good video
the title of yosh’s video literally said it was unbeatable ?
@@chesstyyread the title of the video you're commenting on
@@chesstyyunbeatable for him
I think Wirtual needs to think about having screens on his windows, lol, that will solve the bird and potential bug issues.
Vegas is crazy. Many casinos offer free drinks if you play, so maybe that's where the "tip the price of the drink" comes from.
If you dont want a birt, get a wild cat of some type. Tigers are super stanky, but super snuggly and love people.
Wow, in the end the bot pulled a Wirtual against Wirtual himself :o
I saw the other video about training the AI, super cool!
Do they not have screen windows in Norway? To stop mosquitoes and apparently birds to get in your house via the window
The wall hop would be the FWO way Wirt come on!
I love the How To train your dragon music when you managed to get it
I loved the music, reminded me of my favorite childhood movie, also great vid! 👍
Seems like Wirtual is a regular John Henry, keeping those pesky machines at bay.
Wirtual, keep birds out of your house by having decorations that look like birds of prey.
In the last one he's like "Ok, now comes for grown-ups".
WITH THE LEGENDARY HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON MUSICCCC
I've heard mayonaise is bird repellant.
If you put it all over your floor and roll around in it that should take care of it.
do this but vs LineSight's Hockolicious AI. flat maps with 1 turn repeated are so tame and dont show of the full power of Ai, just an ability to repeat inputs.
wait.
what if we combined the things we love, the pyramids, and wirtual sliding across the floor covered in mayonnaise, and had our boy slide down the side of the great pyramid?
birbs dominating the world: wirtual house's edition
Imagine if Pablogd grinded this map as he did A07 race
You know, there is this awesome anti bird and even anti bug feature many of us around the world use on our windows, they’re called screens.
Customary tips in US as an American is 20% if you want to be seen as a good person / generous it's 25%+.
You know, with a slightly different AI model and more training time, the AI would eventually figure out how to hop over the barriers
love the httyd music at 12:23
you have bird problems?
i suggest putting some kind of fly net in the windows you open most.
either the birds are smart enough to see it as a solid obstacle and avoid hitting it, or they are do hit it but get repelled.
work well for small to medium birds, insects and even cats. (accidentally tested with our own cat...)
anything below crow size can't really damage the net and birds of that size still bounce of, with only minor damage.
In America these are called window screens
@@jiaan100 hmm... yeah that sounds like what i intended to say.
guess i can't use literal translation in this case.
Wirtychan, defender of humanity
Bro used the 'how to tame a dragon' soundtrack and thought we wouldnt notice
10:22 interestingly though, to the AI, Trackmania is turn-based, albeit in a different way. It is much less complicated than chess as chess is bound by combinatoric principles that propagate complexity and variations in outcome with every move. The input was very low resolution among other game parameters provided to the neural network, and the potential subsequent game-state of the next frame has far less variability than in the more discrete nature of chess. (Speaking from ML background and studying CS and math in university)
that's not what turn based means.
For the bird, use a watergun. Eller bare en sprayflaske med tuten skrudd halveis igjen.
I’m fucking dead. The ending of the video 😂😂
This is absolute win for humanity! :D Wirtual pulling a Wirtual
Somebody know the first citypop japanese song name or got a playlist of Wirtual's streaming songs? :D
It was like ROSSI vs LORENZO - CATALUGNA 2009.
bro was that Dragons music? what a legend
12:00 dats the how to train your dragon music right there
Want to keep birds out? Having a cardboard cutout of a bird of prey in a window supposedly keeps smaller birds from approaching. It's more for stopping birds flying into windowpanes or attacking their own reflections rather than flying through openings but I can't see how the same trick wouldn't work. (Fun fact: Cardboard cutouts of police officers have been known to discourage crime in humans, and we _know_ it's not a real cop. At least, I hope we do. Right?)
Wirtual keeps bullying AI and I'm afraid it's going to backfire tremensously at some point
inevitably so, humans can't beat AI.
This is just a very inferior version and that's the only reason he stands a chance.
Legends was on Wirtual2 stream
About the bird repellent. The easy way is to get fresh timber wolf urine and spray it around your windows. 🎉 cheers
Put an owl picture or figurine by the window to discourage birds from entering
Wirtual is Trackmania’s John Henry
„He himself”
Bring Pablogd here to grind it
bro tugging at the heartstrings with the HTTYD ost
he got the run with the exact timing for the httyd beatdrop
taking left and right turns over money because you enjoy it. Good to see you don't fall into the money trap but stay yourself.
Have you tried putting screens on your windows to keep the birds out?
Does he not know about window screens? How does he survive during the summer?
"So in a fast pace game like this, I should win"
try to play ultrabullet against a chessai then, see how fast you win xD
T-pose and yell at the bird. Make yourself look like a threat, and it'll probably never come back again. You're probably getting visited by multiple different birds tho lmao. Maybe get a screen for the window? Also love the vid :D
has wirtual ever heard of a window screen? he might need it for his bird problem.
Sick run!!!
YESS I FINALLY BEAT IT AFTER 8 HOURS!!!
*trains ai for 8 more hours*
aw crap here we go again
AI generally hit a point of diminishing returns, similar to human players. If the AI has already been trained for hundreds of hours, another 8 won't necessarily do much
@@holyknightthatpwns ik but a few hundredths makes a huge difference on this map
This is the most anti-Granady map I've ever witnessed.
Hes baaaaaaack!!!!
Mayo man with a new vid
Just wait until AI takes over your fridge, washing machine, whatever. You'll get your ass kicked in the rematch.
Have people never heard of screens on windows? Wirty you can just get a mesh lining that goes over the outside of your window and boom! No birds in your house.
Time to take Wirtuals Replay file and refine the AI
Let’s go, we escaping the matrix with this one
Now I wanna see a bot whose sole purpose is to break the game, doing every glitch and going outside barriers to get the fastest possible time