I think this scene is the best in the entire game because of what it means. When you play it for the first time you think it as a mere dialog of ppl rehearsing for a play, but listening to it after finishing the bachelor I see it as a spoiler of the whole game, the three characters point of view for the disease, the ending that their campaigns lead and also their inner and outer conflicts. Every scene in this game means something, you can ignore them and just play along, or you can listen to them and trully understand what's going on. Definetly a game for literature lovers, one of my favourites
I've spent nearly 200 hours playing both Pathologic 1 & 2 and still feel like I've missed quite a big chunk of the underlying meaning. Btw what's your view on the Pathologic 2? I find it more tribal but definitely less theatrical
@@SuperPomaranczowy me too haha, I think 02 is great but I'm very fond of the bizarre atmosphere of 1 which they didn't go for in 2 and this is enough for me to say 1 is still better because of its unique atmosphere
@@danielchequer5842 Yeah, you're 01 gave me this abstract feeling that I need to find my way in the world which operates under some mysterious laws (which I don't know). I much regret they didn't finish Devoutness campaign properly - especially sides quest after day 8. She's a complex figure - still don't know what the scene with her sister on day 11 meant - but I feel there's a missing gap in the 01 plot
@@SuperPomaranczowy of course, that's disapointing but we must consider that they only did 1 campaign in 2. IPL was playing very safe this time around and the reason why we feel most questions are answered is bc we weren't exposed to as many as in 1. I might be wrong since I only gave 2 10% of the atention I gave to 1 so feel free to disagree
@@danielchequer5842 If you're so into 01; I had 2 question for which I couldn't find the answers: 1. What is the role of dogs (I mean the animals). They appear in few, random moments in the game; always running away, aggressive when attacked. 2. Why there's different fate of Eva Yan house? In the Bachelor's she's dead (obvious why) but in the Haruspex's there's a different lady and in the Challenging's there's no one in the Stillwater? I've been searching for the solutions for months (even contacted Ick Pick guys - no reply) so maybe you could help me?
I find it a bit funny that they can’t even decide if the thing they’re arguing over on the stage is alive dead or a stuffed prop and all 3 keep flip flopping on their stance. Really hammers home for me that they’re more concerned with their ideological differences than actually solving the problem at hand
Well some characters in the game and the games metacontext treat the protagonists as puppets. Clara breaks out of that role by performing impossible tasks and breaking the 4th wall.
@@TovKafur That he's saying you can literally do anything and it's justified because it's willed. So you could commit genocide but it's okay because it was willed.
@@blackadder5346 Basically what voluntarism is. Do whatever you see as right, morals are relative. Nietzsche and de Sad were major contributers to this philosophy, you may read (about) them, probably it will clear up things better than i could.
@@blackadder5346 I think it refers to the philosoohical concept of "Wille" - tough I prefer the Spinozian term "Conatus", which is not simply equal to want / feel like it or so. There are things you can want, but you can't will, like suicide (basically taking Spinozas example here). The point is not to skimp out of your own moral responsibility by refering to a normal/justice/ethics/religion/ideology/... Because nothing can truly be justfied
The way I see it that quote only makes sense in the context of the game's metanarrative. For you, as the player, any choice is right as long as you know why you're making it. Failure is reaching the ending without understanding the story or the consequences of your decisions.
I love how the first dialogue you hear is them questioning where Clara comes from. It's a nice foreshadowing to her origin cutscene where it shows that she is a doll made by the town people. I like to think that since the game show that all the town and its people are just toy dolls for the two "godlike" children and they can't do nothing to stop it. The town people made their own doll to save themselves in the gameplay of those two children. I like to think that this is why Clara can do "miracles" too.
BACHELOR: So, it's all about trickery to you? Wherever have you come from? CHANGELING: No, no... I detest trickery. But if we ourselves are to suffer deception, our hands are no longer tied. Where are we? HARUSPEX: Well, a muscular contraction is there. Means we're already inside of him. This must be one of the ventricles, right here. CHANGELING: What a silly place... It's stuffed! So it's not real for now? I don't think it has started yet. BACHELOR: Does it matter what it's made of? It's definitely struggling. We need to perform sectio transversalis. Cut the wall. There's no other way out. What else is there to do? CHANGELING: I know what to do. Those who favor hard logic and direct action are bound to be misguided. Only a miracle can set us free without us having to destroy something. And I can do miracles. Just let me. BACHELOR: Will you please be quiet? You're a liar and a thief. Who is going to believe you when you keep lying to yourself? The truth is my shepherd. Whatever happens, I will find answers, and justice will be restored. I will perform the operation. Medicum morbo adhibere. HARUSPEX: Don't you go all bossy on me, clever clogs. You will act justly, but your justice will blind you and become his demise. This calls for the gentle hand of a surgeon. Step aside, both of you. CHANGELING: Your gentle hands are used to killing, not giving life. You will inevitably do harm. As for Brainy, he has no regard for casualties at all. Neither of you knows compassion. BACHELOR: Yes, it seems unlikely that we'll get along well, but there's only one truth. HARUSPEX: Any choice is right as long as it's willed. That's the truth of the matter. CHANGELING: Only the heart will show you the right choice. Stop thinking about yourselves; think of the sick. He's in pain. I can't see it yet, but I can feel it. BACHELOR: It's not even a trap... it's a grave. Sub ipsum fumus sumus. Can't say I hold a soft spot for it. HARUSPEX: I can see that. You're full of hate. Stuffed or not, it's breathing. I can heal it. It can be healed, rather than killed. CHANGELING: You mean you won't become a killer? But you will! Mark my word, that's exactly what will happen. But I can avoid it. BACHELOR: No... we won't ever get along. I suggest we be on our way. The sooner, the better. CHANGELING: Off we go, then? HARUSPEX: Let's go. The clock is ticking...
I love how well this serves to introduce the player to the protagonists and game's main struggle. Having the protagonists debate each other's methods and motives in a stylistically fitting threatre-scene is genius. In just 3 minutes of theatre we get to know: * The main challenge that the heroes will have to face * Their unique approaches to beating the challenge, and their motives for doing so * Their perspectives on each other's methods And this is all done with dialogue that lays it out in such a way that is in line with the real story which follows, but doesn't explicitly spoil everything just yet. Despite the fact that you may not understand what exactly they're speaking about here on your first playthrough, the way they discuss it is enough to clue you in to their personalities and what they stand for. It also sets up the whole "threatre and plays" motif. This is my favourite intro to any game.
@@janescarfield8104 on the second day, there's a pantomime similar to the intro, but they just kinda stand there while talking, only lasts a few seconds. Maybe when all the characters are released they'll do something like this. Been loving the game an awful lot so far though; very faithful.
I just feel like this conversation is more realistic. Here, they are discussing about the town and the best course of action each of them thinks it's best, just as they are thinking about their place in this living town. But in the new theatre sequence, they look like they're simply in a philosophy class talking about their beliefs.
I've got a question. The writing in this game is made to feel unnatural, as if everyone is reading a script, since this game's point is that like the children, you're playing a game designed to have you wrap your head around certain concepts. Experiment on them. And in my current fanfics, which are mainly focused on dimensional transhumanist beings who are still figuring out this whole divinity thing, my writing is either vague or unnatural, because I'm trying both to leave it open to people's imagination how the scenes play out if they were on screen, and because I'm trying to show these characters are still learning and get a hold of their current condition. All of this is meant to represent my struggle in getting writing correctly. But, am I using my current ideas and concepts as an excuse for poor writing ? Or am I actually getting somewhere through this current method and lign of thought ? I need an opinion please. People are still reading my stories, but they don't provide me any feedback, so I don't know if I'm getting somewhere with them or if I am losing them.
i know this is a rather late response, but i would love to read some of your works! the way you describe it sounds intriguing, and for someone to have such a well-developed grasp on the theory and message behind these characters, i highly doubt that your writing style is poor, even if there are flaws. if you feel like sharing some of your work with me, i'd love to give you further insight!
@@isabelledonnell5181 OMG ! I'm so sorry I didn't answer you earlier. Here, let me send you the link of two of my fanfics. By the way, if the "Similar Stories" makes you want to give up, I can assure you the one called "The Cosmic Devil meets the Digital messiah" is where my improvements start. In fact, I already have people start commenting, which means I'm starting to build a semi-permanent audience.
So... this entire thing is a morbid game created by children who feel the need to play God and in control after witnessing death for the first time ? And we, the player, are both their playmates and dolls ? (A tear runs down my cheek) I found home.
i think they don't play for control. i believe they're trying to make sense of death. it's a hard moment in every child's life, when they realize everyone is gonna die some day, especially hard if adults aren't there to help
@@TinumbraI do wonder where the adults are. Clara seems to be the children themselves, while the other two are the adults they're used to. What reality are this children being exposed to ?
The first latin phrase someone has already covered in this comment section. The second latin phrase "suip com vuna sumus" roughly means "we are together".
I wished I could play the real deal on PS4. The actual first game. Because simply trying to watch it on TH-cam...it takes all of the fun out. Then again, trying to see it on TH-cam can allow me to have a more cinematic perspective of the three characters and their stories.
I’m pretty sure Xylophone is correct, that he is the hands. There’s several references in this scene where he’s referred to with action, the doing, which would fit with hands (a surgeon’s hand, willed action). That also works with the other two, brain and heart. Even creates a weird (probably unintended) reference to a German movie from the 1920’s called Metropolis.
"The Changeling is skin, this is about contact and caress, kinesthetic things... ...The Changeling’s overarching idea is contact as a means to create meaning, develop the world and bring peace to it... ...The Changeling talks... ...The Changeling: vapor + sideways vector." - [from the game’s design documents] Changeling is the hands (with her healing/killing hands). Haruspex would be the heart. "The Haruspex is blood and organs... ...The Haruspex’s overarching idea is the interconnectedness of everything and restoring the connections... ...The Haruspex hears (rhythms)... ...The Haruspex: water + forward vector." - [from the game’s design documents] "The Haruspex, a butcher, a killer, one could even say a murderous psychopath, gets the warmest character arc. It’s about love." - [from the game’s design documents] Bachelor is, unsurprisingly, the brain. "The Bachelor is about vision and the brain... ...The Bachelor’s overarching idea is comprehension and rational (analytical) interpretation... ...The Bachelor sees... ...The Bachelor: solids + upward vector." - [from the game’s design documents] "The Bachelor is so engrossed in his noble battle against death that he forgets to value the lives of those near him." - [from the game’s design documents]
Am I the only one who likes to pretend this game is set on the same universe as SOMA, thousands of years into the future, when humanity managed to rebuild, and the WAU is partially behind the plague and some of the game's creatures ? Just me ?
Bachelor: I will perform the operation. Medicum morbo adhibere.
Haruspex: DON’T YOU GO ALL BOSSY ON ME, *C L E V E R C L O G S.*
I always thought he said clever cloaks
Cleric robes XD
It sounds like salad fingers dialogue
Clever clogs. This is why I love Haruspex
Bachelor: enormous
Clara being all like " wait where the fuck are we ? The game hasnt even started yet. Were not even real yet"
*GO ONION* , _i need to collect the tools_
THE GIRLS ARE FIGHTINGGGG
“this calls for the gentle hand of a surgeon”
“Your *gentle hands* are used to *killing* “
Get him clara
I love how Clara's only argument against Artemy is "Lol you defended yourself a bunch."
SPOILERS
I think she meant sacrificing the city and killing the Udurgh
I think this scene is the best in the entire game because of what it means. When you play it for the first time you think it as a mere dialog of ppl rehearsing for a play, but listening to it after finishing the bachelor I see it as a spoiler of the whole game, the three characters point of view for the disease, the ending that their campaigns lead and also their inner and outer conflicts. Every scene in this game means something, you can ignore them and just play along, or you can listen to them and trully understand what's going on. Definetly a game for literature lovers, one of my favourites
I've spent nearly 200 hours playing both Pathologic 1 & 2 and still feel like I've missed quite a big chunk of the underlying meaning. Btw what's your view on the Pathologic 2? I find it more tribal but definitely less theatrical
@@SuperPomaranczowy me too haha, I think 02 is great but I'm very fond of the bizarre atmosphere of 1 which they didn't go for in 2 and this is enough for me to say 1 is still better because of its unique atmosphere
@@danielchequer5842 Yeah, you're 01 gave me this abstract feeling that I need to find my way in the world which operates under some mysterious laws (which I don't know). I much regret they didn't finish Devoutness campaign properly - especially sides quest after day 8. She's a complex figure - still don't know what the scene with her sister on day 11 meant - but I feel there's a missing gap in the 01 plot
@@SuperPomaranczowy of course, that's disapointing but we must consider that they only did 1 campaign in 2. IPL was playing very safe this time around and the reason why we feel most questions are answered is bc we weren't exposed to as many as in 1. I might be wrong since I only gave 2 10% of the atention I gave to 1 so feel free to disagree
@@danielchequer5842 If you're so into 01; I had 2 question for which I couldn't find the answers: 1. What is the role of dogs (I mean the animals). They appear in few, random moments in the game; always running away, aggressive when attacked. 2. Why there's different fate of Eva Yan house? In the Bachelor's she's dead (obvious why) but in the Haruspex's there's a different lady and in the Challenging's there's no one in the Stillwater? I've been searching for the solutions for months (even contacted Ick Pick guys - no reply) so maybe you could help me?
I find it a bit funny that they can’t even decide if the thing they’re arguing over on the stage is alive dead or a stuffed prop and all 3 keep flip flopping on their stance. Really hammers home for me that they’re more concerned with their ideological differences than actually solving the problem at hand
It seems like they represent the mind, body, and soul.
Interesting way of looking at it. Which one is which?
@@csbamskater Clara - the soul
Killer boy - the body
Daniil 'Big Brain' Dankovsky - the brain
pathologic 2 draws a similar comparison with Clara as skin, Artemy as blood, and Daniil as the brain
No! No... I detest trickery, but if we ourselves are to suffer deception, our hands are no longer tied
My favorite line from this game, the delivery of it was very memorable.
Where are we?
What does it mean exactly?
Well some characters in the game and the games metacontext treat the protagonists as puppets.
Clara breaks out of that role by performing impossible tasks and breaking the 4th wall.
@@atillacelik2736 if we ourselves are to be tricked, then we have to take action basically
"Any choice is right, so long as it's willed"
Interesting but very flawed philosophy.
Basically voluntarism and/or irrationalism. What's flawed about it?
@@TovKafur That he's saying you can literally do anything and it's justified because it's willed. So you could commit genocide but it's okay because it was willed.
@@blackadder5346 Basically what voluntarism is. Do whatever you see as right, morals are relative. Nietzsche and de Sad were major contributers to this philosophy, you may read (about) them, probably it will clear up things better than i could.
@@blackadder5346 I think it refers to the philosoohical concept of "Wille" - tough I prefer the Spinozian term "Conatus", which is not simply equal to want / feel like it or so.
There are things you can want, but you can't will, like suicide (basically taking Spinozas example here).
The point is not to skimp out of your own moral responsibility by refering to a normal/justice/ethics/religion/ideology/...
Because nothing can truly be justfied
The way I see it that quote only makes sense in the context of the game's metanarrative. For you, as the player, any choice is right as long as you know why you're making it. Failure is reaching the ending without understanding the story or the consequences of your decisions.
I love how the first dialogue you hear is them questioning where Clara comes from. It's a nice foreshadowing to her origin cutscene where it shows that she is a doll made by the town people. I like to think that since the game show that all the town and its people are just toy dolls for the two "godlike" children and they can't do nothing to stop it. The town people made their own doll to save themselves in the gameplay of those two children. I like to think that this is why Clara can do "miracles" too.
It's just me, or haruspex looks and sounds like 40 years old man? (he is 26)
Twyrine is a hell of a drink
He sounds like Severus Snape to me.
I've met 21 years old that sound like that
@@magusperde365 tell him to stop smoking
Это ты ещё русскую озвучку не слушал, там он вообще как 80 летний дед.
best game characters ever
BACHELOR: So, it's all about trickery to you? Wherever have you come from?
CHANGELING: No, no... I detest trickery. But if we ourselves are to suffer deception, our hands are no longer tied. Where are we?
HARUSPEX: Well, a muscular contraction is there. Means we're already inside of him. This must be one of the ventricles, right here.
CHANGELING: What a silly place... It's stuffed! So it's not real for now? I don't think it has started yet.
BACHELOR: Does it matter what it's made of? It's definitely struggling. We need to perform sectio transversalis. Cut the wall. There's no other way out. What else is there to do?
CHANGELING: I know what to do. Those who favor hard logic and direct action are bound to be misguided. Only a miracle can set us free without us having to destroy something. And I can do miracles. Just let me.
BACHELOR: Will you please be quiet? You're a liar and a thief. Who is going to believe you when you keep lying to yourself? The truth is my shepherd. Whatever happens, I will find answers, and justice will be restored. I will perform the operation. Medicum morbo adhibere.
HARUSPEX: Don't you go all bossy on me, clever clogs. You will act justly, but your justice will blind you and become his demise. This calls for the gentle hand of a surgeon. Step aside, both of you.
CHANGELING: Your gentle hands are used to killing, not giving life. You will inevitably do harm. As for Brainy, he has no regard for casualties at all. Neither of you knows compassion.
BACHELOR: Yes, it seems unlikely that we'll get along well, but there's only one truth.
HARUSPEX: Any choice is right as long as it's willed. That's the truth of the matter.
CHANGELING: Only the heart will show you the right choice. Stop thinking about yourselves; think of the sick. He's in pain. I can't see it yet, but I can feel it.
BACHELOR: It's not even a trap... it's a grave. Sub ipsum fumus sumus. Can't say I hold a soft spot for it.
HARUSPEX: I can see that. You're full of hate. Stuffed or not, it's breathing. I can heal it. It can be healed, rather than killed.
CHANGELING: You mean you won't become a killer? But you will! Mark my word, that's exactly what will happen. But I can avoid it.
BACHELOR: No... we won't ever get along. I suggest we be on our way. The sooner, the better.
CHANGELING: Off we go, then?
HARUSPEX: Let's go. The clock is ticking...
I love how well this serves to introduce the player to the protagonists and game's main struggle.
Having the protagonists debate each other's methods and motives in a stylistically fitting threatre-scene is genius.
In just 3 minutes of theatre we get to know:
* The main challenge that the heroes will have to face
* Their unique approaches to beating the challenge, and their motives for doing so
* Their perspectives on each other's methods
And this is all done with dialogue that lays it out in such a way that is in line with the real story which follows, but doesn't explicitly spoil everything just yet. Despite the fact that you may not understand what exactly they're speaking about here on your first playthrough, the way they discuss it is enough to clue you in to their personalities and what they stand for. It also sets up the whole "threatre and plays" motif.
This is my favourite intro to any game.
I cannot wait to see this scene in the remake
fuck
@@Jango172 Don't tell me they've removed it?
@@janescarfield8104 on the second day, there's a pantomime similar to the intro, but they just kinda stand there while talking, only lasts a few seconds. Maybe when all the characters are released they'll do something like this. Been loving the game an awful lot so far though; very faithful.
@@Jango172 It's in 2 as a dream. If you missed it, it's here:
th-cam.com/video/pjCAF6bnuYM/w-d-xo.html
The dream is amazing, haruspex day 8 if I'm correct
Medicum morbo adhibere (Disease physician to apply)
Don't you go all bossy on me, clever-cloaks!
this is so weirdly inspiring
Such a brilliant intro.
I just feel like this conversation is more realistic. Here, they are discussing about the town and the best course of action each of them thinks it's best, just as they are thinking about their place in this living town.
But in the new theatre sequence, they look like they're simply in a philosophy class talking about their beliefs.
Am I the only one who likes this version better than the new theatre sequence ?
Why does the Bachelor sound like Patrick Bateman?
They're talking about the udurgh.
I've got a question. The writing in this game is made to feel unnatural, as if everyone is reading a script, since this game's point is that like the children, you're playing a game designed to have you wrap your head around certain concepts. Experiment on them.
And in my current fanfics, which are mainly focused on dimensional transhumanist beings who are still figuring out this whole divinity thing, my writing is either vague or unnatural, because I'm trying both to leave it open to people's imagination how the scenes play out if they were on screen, and because I'm trying to show these characters are still learning and get a hold of their current condition. All of this is meant to represent my struggle in getting writing correctly.
But, am I using my current ideas and concepts as an excuse for poor writing ? Or am I actually getting somewhere through this current method and lign of thought ? I need an opinion please. People are still reading my stories, but they don't provide me any feedback, so I don't know if I'm getting somewhere with them or if I am losing them.
i know this is a rather late response, but i would love to read some of your works! the way you describe it sounds intriguing, and for someone to have such a well-developed grasp on the theory and message behind these characters, i highly doubt that your writing style is poor, even if there are flaws. if you feel like sharing some of your work with me, i'd love to give you further insight!
@@isabelledonnell5181 OMG ! I'm so sorry I didn't answer you earlier. Here, let me send you the link of two of my fanfics.
By the way, if the "Similar Stories" makes you want to give up, I can assure you the one called "The Cosmic Devil meets the Digital messiah" is where my improvements start. In fact, I already have people start commenting, which means I'm starting to build a semi-permanent audience.
@@isabelledonnell5181 hello. Have you had time to research the name of one of my works ?
Medicum morbius adhibe
So... this entire thing is a morbid game created by children who feel the need to play God and in control after witnessing death for the first time ? And we, the player, are both their playmates and dolls ?
(A tear runs down my cheek)
I found home.
i think they don't play for control. i believe they're trying to make sense of death. it's a hard moment in every child's life, when they realize everyone is gonna die some day, especially hard if adults aren't there to help
@@TinumbraI do wonder where the adults are. Clara seems to be the children themselves, while the other two are the adults they're used to.
What reality are this children being exposed to ?
the question is if Artemy said "clever cloaks" or "clever clogs"
I think clogs because I think it’s an actual part of his character that he wears shoes that make himself taller.
@@oneinathousand2156 ahh, that makes sense. especially since he speaks AFTER the Bachelor in that context.
does anyone know what is actually said at 1:28 and 2:23?
The first latin phrase someone has already covered in this comment section.
The second latin phrase
"suip com vuna sumus" roughly means "we are together".
i believe he said "don't you go all bossy on me, CLEVER CLOGS."
I wished I could play the real deal on PS4. The actual first game. Because simply trying to watch it on TH-cam...it takes all of the fun out. Then again, trying to see it on TH-cam can allow me to have a more cinematic perspective of the three characters and their stories.
If the Bachelor is the Brain and Clara is the Heart, what is the Haruspex? Blood?
Hands?
I’m pretty sure Xylophone is correct, that he is the hands. There’s several references in this scene where he’s referred to with action, the doing, which would fit with hands (a surgeon’s hand, willed action). That also works with the other two, brain and heart. Even creates a weird (probably unintended) reference to a German movie from the 1920’s called Metropolis.
@@someone-you-do-not-know8522 I adore Metropolis
"The Changeling is skin, this is about contact and caress, kinesthetic things...
...The Changeling’s overarching idea is contact as a means to create meaning, develop the world and bring peace to it...
...The Changeling talks...
...The Changeling: vapor + sideways vector."
- [from the game’s design documents]
Changeling is the hands (with her healing/killing hands). Haruspex would be the heart.
"The Haruspex is blood and organs...
...The Haruspex’s overarching idea is the interconnectedness of everything and restoring the connections...
...The Haruspex hears (rhythms)...
...The Haruspex: water + forward vector."
- [from the game’s design documents]
"The Haruspex, a butcher, a killer, one could even say a murderous psychopath, gets the warmest character arc. It’s about love."
- [from the game’s design documents]
Bachelor is, unsurprisingly, the brain.
"The Bachelor is about vision and the brain...
...The Bachelor’s overarching idea is comprehension and rational (analytical) interpretation...
...The Bachelor sees...
...The Bachelor: solids + upward vector."
- [from the game’s design documents]
"The Bachelor is so engrossed in his noble battle against death that he forgets to value the lives of those near him."
- [from the game’s design documents]
Thinking, Feeling, Doing
love how everyone gets caught on that first beam thing
Gonzalez Maria Perez Mark Lee Jeffrey
I love the life as a theatre scene
I know I will get killed for this buuuut:
Daniil=Edelgard
Artemy=Dimitri
Clara=Claude and Byleth in one person
…shit that sort of makes sense, too.
Am I the only one who likes to pretend this game is set on the same universe as SOMA, thousands of years into the future, when humanity managed to rebuild, and the WAU is partially behind the plague and some of the game's creatures ? Just me ?