I love that they think that the doctors, who had issues keeping women alive during childbirth, could cut a person open to remove a rib or three and keep them alive after!
@@mementomori1022 I hate to be pedantic (who am I kidding, it’s entertaining as hell), _but_ the risk of death during childbirth was often related to the risk of death after invasive surgery because both were usually infections. Though haemorrhaging was a concern, it was often femoral fever that swept hospitals with birth wards.
@@GuiSmith It is honestly surprising when you figure out how the doctor who thought "If we washed our hands and equipment thoroughly between sick people we won't spread the sickness" had actual proof that this worked, but the other doctors didn't like his attitude so ignored him and he ended up in a mental asylum....
Yea it was largely actually the medical practices causing infection and sepsis in women in child birth because they were very unsanitary and literally gave women infections. Its not so much of child birthing, women have birthed children since the begining of time, its because of monopolistic practices via force of globalist agendas to have mass dependency on pharmaceuticals and changing natural tradition that drastically effected maternal mortality rate, they screwed with it, changed up traditional practices, were so unsanitary and to forceful and harsh, and then later improved their sucky practices with "doctoral" and pharmaceutical aid. Women don't need doctors in labo 9.5 times out of 10, emergencies especially today with some actually legitimately helpful advancements, yet not without it indoctrination and henderance still in labor that causes more problems than helps, and one intervention leads to more it cascades and usually doctors want to do something that's unnecessary because of monopolized pharmaceuticals medical standards brought on by these large organizations formed by these globalists like the world health organization fda, nih, cdc, etc etc In contrast to one another commenter said
What was the first electrical medical device? None other than the female stimulator. A medical vibrator for the treatment of hysteria. Have a miserable/ nervous wife? Send her off to get diddled by the Doctor...
I am squealing with joy at how far the costuming community has come in getting lots of ACTUAL ACCURATE INFORMATION out into the mainstream in this area. Nowadays it's like a relentless collective flood of SERIOUSLY GUYS WE'RE NOT DEAD YET NO REALLY and Actual Research in THIS level of detail, and it's a joy to see!
Look as a woman who is "blessed" in boob department a corset/stays seems like it would be hella more comfortable on my shoulders and back than the current over the shoulder bolder holders.
I have a 52 inch bust measurement and a 41 inch below bust measurement. I have never found a "comfortable" bra. My corset is comfortable and supportive. I can adjust the lacing so that everything fits.
I've had back issues since high school and as a new mom who's body has changed, my corset is so important to me It helps relieve my lumbar pain, I breastfed so it keeps my boobs up where they should be, and it gives me a smooth tummy which makes my clothes fit nicer
Same! I'd also love to learn about when things changed over from using shapewear to create, well, shape and putting emphasis on changing the actual body instead. What was going on in society and in the clothing industry to create that change?
As a currently 6mo pregnant woman with her second baby, I can see SO MANY health benefits to corsets for women in the past! Women had babies, usually LOTS of babies, or they died in child birth quite often. Being pregnant usually causes diastasis recti (separation of the abs), causing structural instability. Without proper PT and rehab, it can cause all sorts of issues, including issues with subsequent pregnancies where the baby won’t be in the right position because the skeletal structure of the mom isn’t optimal. I’m currently wearing a belly support band to counteract ALL of those issues (and yet no one would sneeze at my using it now, so why would women have sneezed at “corset” support then?). There are also issues with organs not being supported correctly because of poor core strength. So corseted support may have helped keep organs in place more than be the cause of the displacement! We are just now starting to understand much of these issues that most women/mothers face, and yet past generations dealt with the consequences in very practical ways. They may not have known how to address the underlying problem with functional physical therapies, but they did creat garments that helped with so many issues. If you were faced with possible death from a baby not being in optimal position or dealing with crippling joint issues from lack of stabilization v wearing a supporting garment every day, you’d wear the garment! And that doesn’t even touch the topic of breast size and the added weight of lactating breasts! The sad thing is that we have become so far removed from what it means and is like to be a biologically functioning female, that we have lost all ties to the women that came before us and can’t begin to comprehend their realities of day to day life! They weren’t just vain and oppressed women. They were practical and purposeful people who we should learn from and not put down because we do not fully understand them!
I had to wear a belly band in my last pregnancy as well. I would've totally preferred a corset honestly. That thing was a nightmare for me to fit correctly!
I'm also postpartum and I'm wearing my corset for back support because deadlifting a rapidly growing baby is HARD. I had access to a maternity corset too without boning and I preferred it to my belly band because it didn't cut into my ribs. But of course my MIL thought I was gonna hurt my baby so you know. Corset myths alive and well. 🙄 (Even though maternity corsets were still used even after bras came into fashion well into the first half of the twentieth century...)
I’m telling ya! There was very legit reasons to wear support. I have a feeling those who demonized them either were single and not mothers or it was for ideological reasons, not practical ones! My first was an emergency c-section and I couldn’t wear support because it just hurt too much! But that may have contributed to the longer recovery and instability of this pregnancy!
Yep. SOO agree with you. I have diastasis recti, got it with my 4th child, and oddly, or disturbingly, enough I split in the first trimester. My next (and final) pregnancy was TWINS! After all these years, I finally got my sternum to point downward again, though I still have a couple of ribs that are distended. And a couple of weeks ago, I completely forgot myself and sat STRAIGHT UP in bed, and had to wear every binder and cincher I had to relieve the non-sense and pain that that caused. It's hard to be an upright human. I used to do sit-ups to relieve a hereditary bad back, and now I can't even do that.
Last historical reference to ‘stays’ my granny in 2010 before she passed away aged 96. She was brought up by her Victorian farmer grandmother (whose mother had been a dressmaker) and she ALWAYS referred to her control underwear as ‘having her stays on’ my mind was boggled as a child!!! 😂
My mother always talked about "stays" as foundational undergarments that all "ladies" should wear. I was a teenager in the 1970's. I thought she was nutz. And I still do not wear a bra - I am VERY petite, tho.
3:20 women today also use surgery to get the right size/shape (there’s still an ideal shape....think of the instabody) what’s interesting to me is that they’re still adding padding to the same areas, it’s just fat underneath the skin instead of a bustle underneath the skirt.
the hilarious thing about your rant about women dying from corsets is....my nan actually DID have an 18 inch waist on her wedding day but she's also a tiny, very very slim 5'2 woman (or was when she was married, she's shorter now) who weighs less than I did as a pre-teen perfectly possible for someone to have that small of a waist without a corset, but you have to be small everywhere else too, bodies are designed to be in proportion
Yeah, I had a friend who had Scarlett's waistline as a teenager. She was like 5' even. And that was without a corset. She'd have made Scarlett green with envy.
I have friends who have very lean, lanky shapes so I always eyeroll so hard at saying certain extant clothes were "obvious a teenager's dress". I know people who have those proportions who are 36. They have no desire to, but could lace down to 18-20" easily. I can do 23-45 waist-hip if I tried because that's what my body is shaped like. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes, even the ones people think are extreme and ridiculous.
@@frockups5931 I always thought the "this was a teen's dress" conclusion was a combination of small size and minimal wear, as opposed to a small garment that had been worn over many years.
I'm 5' and very petite, when I'm at my natural weight of 102lbs my waist is 19" but I look so childish when I'm thin so I gained weight and now have a 27" waist. Currently trying to train it back down 😓🤣
I've seen explanations also that smaller dresses were less likely to be mined for fabric to make new things, since they had less fabric in them. As a result, more survived.
As someone who used to live in an old house which had wide stone walls and was only heated by fire places in the winter, I can completely understand why someone might layer underwear and clothing in a bizarre way. My pyjama days were generally corsets, vest tops, pj's, jumper and jeans days. My sister in law would sometimes wear 2 bras because every layer helps. We could never understand why my father in law didn't seem to get cold, now I realise most of his clothes were wool.
Oh, wool. I live in an old-ish house for my area (built around 1900) and the radiators aren't quite up to the task of keeping us warm enough in the winter, so I'm highly considering making some long wool skirts.
@@bridgetthewench the Restoring Ross blog has stuff about that. I can't recall the right term for what he has in his 1800 Queen Anne that is keeping things toasty in winter, but he blogged about it. And it's in conjunction with the radiators.
@@bridgetthewench from someone who has lived in old freezing flats with no insulation and no heating during winter the way we kept warm was tights under trackpants, woollen thermals under multiple thrifted woolen jumpers. Possum socks and three hot water bottles. I can imagine havin a coal range going for cooking all day, multiple layers of underwear and some kind of head gear u would be the perfect temp
I love this. A serious examination by a serious scholar who is serious about not being overly serious and stuffy is a serious step forward for scholarship! Thank you, Abby.
The word “stays” is a hard one to promote using an algorithm, since it can be a verb as well as a noun, and is used in far more different contexts than “corset” is.
I used to do ballet. The costumes were designed by Pat Padilla of Houston Ballet. One thing I remember about the design of the classical ballet costume was the bodice. Often, the bodice looked like many of the stays shown in this video. I've also had to wear a corset with Victorian style gowns. Both proved quite supportive and were not the torture devices they are often made out to be.
You lightly touched on it, but I'd love a Corset vs Bodice explanation. I feel like most people today call all things a corset, which I don't -think- is accurate
@@SarahBent I’m a fellow ribs-sit-on-hips person. I was skinny for many years, and even then (about 100 pounds and 5’2”) I didn’t look like I had a very slender waist because there was just no space for narrowing. I think standing tall and sort of stretching myself up I have about an inch between my bottom rib and top of hip bone. It made finding dresses so difficult that I just stopped wearing dresses. And I was a big fan of dropped waist pants because regular pants waistbands sat on my ribs, or gauged into my ribs, unsurprisingly not a comfy sort of situation.
omg, as someone who has recently ("recently"as in - in the year 2020 which has been about five thousand years long) done google searches on the difference among corset, stays, pair of bodies, and jumps I thank you for helping clear the confusion. Sort of clear the confusion. This is terrific, thank you!
@A. K. V. - I freely admit to still being confused by the terms, timeline, and designs. More pictured example would have helped me. Now, she has tossed "mantua" into the mix. Are these garments all manutuas or is a mantua something else entirely? Aaaarghh! I'll have to follow the link Ms Cox provided.
I was really hoping for a family tree type flow chart when you said corsets and stays are cousins and then brought up bodies, jumps, and brassieres. I'm also really happy that when I became interested in modern corsets, I somehow missed or skipped all that annoying myth garbage and went straight to people who knew what they were actually talking about.
With all the jokes, puns, and memes in this video, I’m really surprised Abby said “mainstays” twice without any emphasis. I wasn’t sure if it was on purpose or a missed opportunity lol
This is so fascinating, i always thought the difference would be in the corset's more drastic shapeing or something, really wouldn't have expected the distinction to be in the bone density
"Women had their ribcages removed" I can't stop laughing, I just picture someone having their ENTIRE ribcage plucked out like 'nah I don't need this' 😂
@@ragnkja Absolutely! Story you didn't ask for: When I told my gran I was making a proper Victorian corset, she instantly told me about how women were having their ribs removed etc etc 🙃 I was like 'no gran, just think about it for two seconds. Why would women voluntarily undergo a seriously dangerous procedure for pure vanity, when a very neccesary tooth pulling could leave you with a nasty infection?' She immidiately did a complete 180 turn and just said 'Yeah I thought there was something not right about that.' 😂
@Ig-nat-ius oh same, im this close to making flat front stays to hide them away. there were unboned reducers in the 20s to make the waiflike, more androgynous shape but i dont know much abt them
I (as an enby) personally like the “unnatural” (for modern standards) look that corsets give, and it’s also a lot easier to breath in them than in binders 😓.
You could probably use a masculine style corset with padding at your waist underneath to get a straighter, flatter shape. I don’t know if they make them reach the upper chest area, but I’m sure you could find someone to make (or diy) a masculine corset that does. With padding at your waist, you’d probably have to tighten it less to get the same desired result. Edit: i have no experience, I’m just afab enby and considering this method for days that my chest dysphoria strikes.
I'm genderqueer and I've been doing historical reenactment for over a decade. I remember being in high school and putting on my Civil War style corset backwards and trying on clothes over it to see myself flat-chested and reduce dysphoria. I even would wear it when I did 18th century men's costumes. I've been wanting to design and make a soft binder/bra inspired by regency short corset/stays for a while.
When you said, "Boobs!" I started laughing, got weird looks from my kids, and I just yelled, "BOOBS!" They blushed and walked away. I feel it is my job to keep them on their toes and normalize body talk, so thank you!
Hilarious! My kids have zero chill regarding those matters and will say things like “wow mama your boobies are extra jiggly today” and I’m like ummmmmm
This video taught me that while I've never worn a corset, I have the optimum body type for altering my shape with one. I have a long torso, and I am comprised of plenty of squish.
At 22:20 when Abby used the fighting clip it made me think of The four Musketeers movie from 1974 with Faye Dunaway as Milady. She pulls out a dagger from her busk area!
“Brassière” is pronounced bra-zee-air rather than bra-zee -ray, in English “brassiere” can also be pronounced bra-zeer. It’s a French word that must have entered around that time, eventually getting shortened to “bra” which we use today - though brassiere is still the full form of the word.
Since there are two of the letter s, it'd be a more sharp sound, like bra-see-air. This distinction is definitely important for two other French words: poisson and poison!
@@Kato_Rin Very true! It is still use in France and is just a cloth bra, mostly used by pre-teens to cover before you can fit in an A cup. In my childhood anyway :) Every region has its own fun in France lol
It is more a soft C sound versus a hard Z like Bra-cee-air. Also Braz-iere is an Anglo take on the French word brassière. Although I don't have any historical data on this, I'm franco fluent.
This is the video I needed!!! Ever since discovering the historical fashion ...realm?... I've yearned for an exhaustive scholarly breakdown of support garments. Abby, you're always freaking awesome. edit: have you ever considered creating a short course?
We’ve got bodice and bodies and then “corset” is derived from Latin “corps” and then French “cors” meaning “body” 😂😭 Bodisss Bodeez Bods Boddiessssssssssss
Got so used to the "hehe" things every time a stay or body or waste/waist punny thing got said that I was genuinely surprised that a "shift" one got through unacknowledged lol
I just turned in a final project where I designed a “dream museum exhibit” around the politics and semiotics of 18th century fashion. It was probably the most fun I had with a project...ever. Grad school is awesome sometimes 😅
I know I’m two years to late, but as a fantasy writer who wants to get the details right, your channel is amazing! My main character wears smooth stays is something I needed to know 😊
I was honestly just wondering what the difference between corsets and stays was last night! Perfect timing and informative as always. Random question, but an IMPORTANT one: what breeds are your dogs??? They're so cute!
I got my first dirndl six or seven years ago, and I always wondered why everyone looks good in them. I've fallen down many, many a stays video rabbithole in that time. This is the first time I realize, a dirndl bodice is a boned garment (even the cheap ones), worn with petticoats and very specifically constructed bras. You can get them in all the colors, skirt lengths, bodice fronts, neckline cuts and frou-frou levels. There's a few elements that have to be there, but the main characteristic is the shape. I'm now twice as tempted to get a sew-your-own-dirndl book (or... three) as I was this morning.
Seriously, one oft my best life-choices was to get married in a Dirndl. It was both comfortable and flattering and I am able to wear it again without getting (too many) weird looks. On top of that, I could easily alter it when I gained weight during and right after pregnancy and eventually back to its former size. And regardless of my size, it still looked fantastic and flattering. Funny it ever fell out of fashion for every day wear, but even in Bavaria and Austria it's not something you would wear outside of work (waitresses often do) or festivities (like the Oktoberfest). - I am German, in case somebody is wondering, but from the north where dirndls are even less commonly worn these days than in the south.
@@nicoleroth3127 It all depends on where you live I think. On one hand, on the countryside, there's a lot of festivities and additional occasions where dirndls are more than appropriate to wear, so they do at the very least least work as a party/formal/folk dress (also depending on the style). Some examples are Zeltfeste (rural parties), that are hosted up to every two weeks, any slightly formal occasion from a nice family dinner to a wedding (both as a bride (or groom) and as an attendee) and any traditional activity, like participating in a traditional band or choir, or being part of any club that deals with Austrian/German traditions (like a Trachtenverein). On the other hand, the more rural you get, the more normal it is for people to wear dirndls as everyday dresses. I live in Austria (in city though, but I have friends from the countryside) and it's not at all uncommon to see, especially more mature, women on the countryside wearing dirndls as everyday clothes. Also, being from Germany, I assume you already know at least some of this. I still wanted to go into details for all the international people in this comment section.
@@killitwithfire5377 Very well explained! In the end that is exactly what I meant, though you explained it much better. - That for (most) younger people a dirndl is not considered everyday wear anymore but is still worn on special occasions or at work and regularly so. But sadly it's not quite the same than to think of it as an everyday garment like one would with a pair of jeans. I think in this instance, the older ladies definitely got it right by still doing so and wearing something both practical and flattering. - Oh, and pretty timeless. ;) And before someone is wondering why I got married in a dirndl when I'm from the more northern parts of Germany (known in Bavaria as 'Preussen' and with that is considered a foreign country ;P), where, as said, dirndls are not at all common even on special occasions: 1. My hubby's family is originally from Bavaria though he grew up in South Africa (as many emigrants do, they kept their traditions) 2. We lived in Bavaria at the time. 3. I'm a clumsy person at the best of times and a classic wedding gown especially one worn over a hooped petticoat would have been a recipe for disaster.
@@nicoleroth3127 Hey, I got married in a dirndl as a young person, and it wasn't long ago either. It was comfortable. Affordable. Sustainable (at least until I got sick and gained 20 kilos, but hey). Also, it had color options that didn't make me look dead. And we lived in Bavaria at the time, so most people were okay with it. I also haven't /quite/ let go of the fantasy of getting/making a wardrobe full of different dirndl and just making them everyday wear. For my... office job. In NRW.
This is perfect timing! I want to make a corset or an pair of stays (because they’re beautiful and bras exacerbate my heartburn issues) and I’ve been trying to figure out what the difference is!
That section about Busks is very interesting as I didn't know you could remove the centre piece so easily. I'm 100% going to use that for my rpg character. Thanks Abby!
"Une jupe" would be translated simply as "skirt" not specifically as a petticoat. Taking grammar in to account, you get something closer to "body for a skirt" instead of "bodied/body of petticoat". Semantics, I know, but still a good distinction to make Edit: Please read replies for full, fact checked information as I was slightly inaccurate here initially. Thank you to Pernelle Blaise for prompting me to dig further!
@@cassierichardson1966 True, most likely skirt was not a widely used term in English, probably favouring terms such as petticoat or overskirt or other words of which I'm not aware, *but* that doesn't change the meaning of the French word. "Jupe" still means skirt even if English speakers wouldn't have translated it as such way back when. "Skirt" not being in the English vocabulary of the time doesn't negate the definition of a word in a completely different language Editing after my second reply: Even though I was incorrect on jupe always having meant skirt, it still holds true that one language not having a certain word absolutely does not change the meaning of a word in a different language. Languages may borrow from each other, but for all intents and purposes they're still separate entities with separate vocabularies.
The meaning seems to have changed over time, because if you look closely at 16:40 petticoat is translated as jupe and skirt as bord. So her interpretation of corps de jupe as body of petticoat is not wrong.
@@pernelleblaise3915 Alright, I'll bite and do the deep dive. I'm curious now lol SO... Let's start with the origin of the word before the meaning. The word "jupe" came from the arabic word "juppah" (some sources spell it "djuppa" or "juppa" or even substitute the double p with bb. Consistent-ish pronunciation, but translation from other alphabets is hard and everyone has an opinion lol) and it meant "a loose men's undergarment". Sounds like it would naturally evolve to petticoat, right? Except instead the earliest references we have of the word date to around the 12th century and meant a tunic men wore under armour, or simply a man's tunic. The later 1694 Dictionnaire de l'Académie française defined jupe as "a padded men's doublet fitted on the bust" (translation by 3rd party source, not myself, so no conflict of interest). This is closer to the later use as some form of bodice. But apparently this word has had kind of a circular evolution?? We see references in literature to jupe meaning a woman's skirt in between the 12th century and the publication of that dictionary in 1694. There is even a separate definition for jupe in an earlier 17th century text describing it as "a feminine garment which hugs the waist and extends to the base of the legs" (again, translated, and not by myself). It is non-specific on whether it is an under or outer garment. Then around the 1810s we start to see the definition change again and used more in the context like the video mentions, as a type of bodice piece in the phrase "corps de jupe". The commonly understood meaning in modern times is now as... a skirt. In conclusion, while the word "jupe" did not in fact always refer to a skirt, that much is correct, it was not used to specifically mean a petticoat from what I can dig up.
@@pernelleblaise3915 If I may remind - petticoat was indeed the outer skirt worn with the open gown (this does not exclude it being also a word for any and all underpetticoats. "Skirt" in that dictionary at 16:40 seems to have been a word for the part of a jacket, what we'd a "peplum" today.
I don't know how it was in England, but in Paris, while the stay makers kept a monopoly on stays and half-boned stays, "blanc corsets" (unboned) where the domain of the mantua maker (couturière) and had a different cut. I wonder if it factors in the birth of early 19th century corded corsets. I mean, they wore their products, unlike most stay makers, and could have been more adaptable to fashion, or easier to talk to for their clients... I'll make that my headcanon till proven wrong.
The dichotomy of your educational lecture with “titties up to the eyeballs” anecdotes is why you’re hilarious to me. It’s exactly how I prefer to learn lol
There's a reason that my mum's colleague, a trained corsetière & seamstress was still making corsets into the 1980s, not for costumers but for ordinary ladies. They worked in a mini department store in Cornwall, UK, and Ethel was making corsets until just before she died.
I read a book of two french corsetière of 1910 (with corsets pattern) , and they were already saying shit about the type of corset they use 15 years ago, and they also had a corset name Louis XV, and they wrote in the book "don't worry ladies, this is not the torture machine they used in the reign of Louis XV" That let me WTF, the vision of corset (stays in this example) as torture devises is so much older. (Women of the past did already shade other women of the past, and this is a great example to show how humans will always be humans 😂😂)
Thank you for this video! I discovered your channel just over a year ago, and I was inspired to try a corset. I now have a growing collection of corsets in my closet, and yes, most days I'm wearing one of my corsets while I work. I work from home at a desk all day, and I found stress and my G cups were pulling my shoulders down toward the keyboard. I've been work-at-home since 2007 and my posture has suffered (a lot). Hubby made a passing comment about me always being "slumped" over the computer. When I do finally stand up to take a break, my back feels like I've been hauling a heavy load all day! You gave me the courage to try a corset, and the change was dramatic! My underbust corsets are not only colorful, playful, and decorative, but they provide an exoskeleton to ease my aching back! The steel boning corrected my posture and gave my chest a weightless feel. The relief was instantaneous! I now wear a corset most work days when I feel stressed or at the first hint of pain. My corsets helped me survive cooking the big family holiday meals. Corsets are such a blessing! Thank you so much for opening my eyes!
Check out the fashion in Keystone Stereoview pictures from Canada that were taken for Stereoscope viewers. They are from late 19th century / early 20th century. Some pictures are out there from Barkerville, BC as well.
Since I did a Vitorian corset course I'm OBSESSED with "boob fashion" history! It's absolutely magical how beaty padrons change from time to time and cultures! Loved this vídeo, love your work, love your personality! Thank you
We so needed this because no one who knows the difference while marketing 🙈. Love the fact that we're talking about how to get the fashionable shape historically and how its totally cool to pad stuff out if you don't have the "shape " desired .
I would love to see a video comparing the comfort level of each style (stays, corded corsets, over/underbust, etc) and what pros and cons are of each beyond just the shape given. This subject is so fascinating, thanks for sharing!!
Abby: great lippie and passionate about boobs okay?! Griffie: just happy to be here!!!!! Subie: doin crimes! In charge here! Floof ears and pearly teefs! The viewers: thrilled!!!
I have been doing some digging into Spanish gown making, and found that a pair of bodies were called "corpinos" from the spanish word for body, cuerpo. If you Google corpino, however, you will find bras! The name has stuck.
Oooh, do you have any good references? I picked up Historia de la moda en España: el vestido femenino entre 1750 y 1850 but now I want to dig more into pre-Bourbon fashion!
@@brennerc180 i only just started by digging through pinterest and google. I started by looking at paintings of Infantas from the colonial era because i was fascinated with the shape of the underpinnings in comparison to their Elizabethan counterparts. I wish i had more to share with you, but if I come across more info I will let you know.
Lowkey kinda want an overbust corset for my standing desk. I feel like it would reduce the amount of things I wear to maintain proper posture and not have back pain.
Very informative--I've always been confused about the difference between the two. On another note: the floating dumpster fire never fails to amuse me, lol. On yet another note...DOGGIES!!
The floating dumpster fire is the best. Makes me feel bad for the early feminists who had their movement co-opted to destroy something the patriarchy wanted gone, but I do quite like laughing at the men who started these ridiculous myths and all the "modern" and "progressive" women who mindlessly bought these myths and still believe them.
Abby in November 2020: The amount of engineering it takes to create a corset is simply incredible... which is why I don’t make them. Abby in January 2021: ...oops
This was lovely! It's seriously great to actually see a nuanced, but clear story without giant leaps to keep it simple. And all the little outtakes were perfect.
Abby, can we please start designing modern outfits to work over some sort of stays/corset/bodies? Not to go back to voluminous gowns that don't fit in cars but just to take advantage of all this back/boob/posture support? Tell me honestly, what design problems are holding us back?
Check out Morgan Donner's video titled something like I Wore A Corset For A Week. She goes into the (very minimal) pitfalls of wearing boned garments under modern clothes.
@@ah5721 I know they used to use corset covers to smooth those lines. I'm wondering why we can't do similar. It may not work just to layer standard modern clothing with a corset, but surely we can design a new take on the old foundations, and perhaps create a new genre.
The voluminous doesn't fit in a car part of the outfit is usually the skirt. And that doesn't have that much to do with the corset. I think it would be ok to keep the top part mostly historical and just have a smaller skirt, with no crinoline, bustle cage, extreme padding. The top could have the same layers and tipes of garments (with maybe different embelishments and more casual looking fabrics).
@@psiholog.matei.gabriela Yes! So what we're looking for is something that does take advantage of modern fabrics/patterns/embellishments etc. and takes modern ideas of comfort and modesty and style into consideration, and looks at stays/corset as just a different foundation to build from. Not trying to recreate the old looks. But maybe some techniques could be useful, like piped seams maybe. Maybe add zippers or velcro if they would help. Not be afraid to mix it up!
Haven't even watched it, but I bet she does the whole "actress says that Corsets are killing me, I thought I would die, they are painful." And Abby handled it better than every other costuber! Great job Abby! As a watcher I am tired of being lectured on that subject :-)
I....need more stories of ladies hiding knives in their busk....someone with writing skills please make it so. Also I am a bit cranky that our main boob holder options are painful underwire or shapeless bralettes. Eventually I may get cranky enough to figure out a more comfortable but shaped option with cording. An abomination stay.
Dear Ellie,I have Small pekoko portable color printer,A perfect gift itself and perfect for custom T-shirt.it can print colorful Text,logo,Qr code,Bar code,pictures,tattoos on wood,fabric,paper,ribbon,stone,and included originally HP multicolor ink cartridge,if you are interested,you can search "PEKOKO"on Amazon or click www.amazon.com/dp/B08LP7W6JD?ref=myi_title_dp
"Searching for bodies and stays in primary sources gets a lot of stuff about dead bodies and ships staying on course" 😆😆😆 The double-edged sword of keyword searching digitized connections! I feel SEEN!
Fascinating! I think you did a good job, I have a better understanding of the nuance between the terms. And thank you for the distinction between shape and size. Perhaps a future video dissecting when size took over from shape as a mainstay in women's fashion?
Right when you were talking about how books change throughout the cycle I got an add for shark week lol. Great video, I never knew the difference between stays and corsets.
Dear Daisy,I have Small pekoko portable color printer,A perfect gift itself and perfect for custom T-shirt.it can print colorful Text,logo,Qr code,Bar code,pictures,tattoos on wood,fabric,paper,ribbon,stone,and included originally HP multicolor ink cartridge,if you are interested,you can search "PEKOKO"on Amazon or click www.amazon.com/dp/B08LP7W6JD?ref=myi_title_dp
Wow! l loved this! I wish I'd known this information when I made the (what are apparently) stays for my late 18th Century traveling dress back in the 1980s. Yes, post Amadeus, and the undergarment looks like some of the ones shown here. Looking at the pattern pieces in an old book from the SDSU library, it was confusing at first to understand what went where. I've never worn a busk (I can only imagine), but it was a challenge to wear said dress (with wig and hat) and drive to an event in my classic Mustang. My paternal grandmother was born in 1894, and it's fun to compare photos of her from 1912 and 1918, with those from 1924. She told me she felt shockingly modern when she first stopped wearing a corset. I still have one of her chemises from her youth.
It depends on the style of busk and size of the dagger. In most cases I would say that it would be pretty difficult to do without damaging the corset/stays or the person wearing them. But maybe with a hefty enough busk and a small enough dagger???
Yessss I have a friend who makes custom knife handles and sheaths so if I ever make one and find or have made a slim enough blade I know who to talk to...
I'm so glad the Lengburg find got a mention (although a bit disappointed you didn't fit in medieval references to "breast bag"). It is one of my favorite historical finds. I especially love the fact that the bit between the cups was a piece of needle lace. It brings the piece alive, thinking about the woman wanting pretty and functional. On a side note...who's your Doctor? I'm a Capaldi gal myself.
Omg!! This is my favorite kind of rabbit hole! I have also been fascinated with historical corsetry. That's what made me interested in historical clothing too. So yea, I'm super excited about this video! Thanks Abby!
I used the word 'stays' in my latest book and one of my beta readers was like 'what is a stay?' and then you posted this...so I shared this with them LOL
Your imitation of the faux French milliner was hilarious! It reminds me of when I worked at a Limited Express store in the early 90s and we had this 18th Century French theme in all our marketing. We even had gold-painted papier mache statues in our store that were reproductions from Versailles and a huge copy of a Fragonard painting. It was so pretentious for a store in a mall in the US South. And most of the employees had strong Southern accents which just made it very clear that there was nothing truly French about us. So it seems people are still doing the same things, even relatively recently.
I absolutely love how the historic dress community on TH-cam all constantly point their viewers to each others videos! There is so much support and respect - it's so rare and very needed! 😁😁
I don't mean to demean your wonderfully intelligent discussion of the over-shoulder boulder-holder history, but I have to know what the H*** foundation you're wearing because your skin looks AMAZING.
Dear Charlotte,I have Small pekoko portable color printer,A perfect gift itself and perfect for custom T-shirt.it can print colorful Text,logo,Qr code,Bar code,pictures,tattoos on wood,fabric,paper,ribbon,stone,and included originally HP multicolor ink cartridge,if you are interested,you can search "PEKOKO"on Amazon or click www.amazon.com/dp/B08LP7W6JD?ref=myi_title_dp
Long etymological adventures are *the best* Also I really appreciated the dog-reel, I had to say goodbye to my friend of 13 years earlier this year and actually had a moment today when I came in the front door and thought I heard paw scrabbles like I used to. I don't follow any dogtubers so ig this is my one stop shop for dress history, sewing tuts, unboxings and doggos!
Love the point about size v shape! I watched my husband go through the sense of failure and rejection many women feel because the sizes available fits people who work as models (? Anorexia.......). We discussed this. He had an "aha" moment. The size obsession actively damages the mental health and physical health of young women who don't measure "down" size wise. It's literally sad this has been characterized as the deliberate infliction of depressive anxiety and eating disorders - for profit. Thanks G
Fun fact: the George Orwell novel A Clergyman's Daughter, published in the 1930s, uses the term "stays" for corset twice- once in describing a very old lady, the other in "a French phrase-book dated 1891. It was called All you will need on your Parisian Trip, and the first phrase given was 'Lace my stays, but not too tightly'."
Can you please do a Historical look at the clothes on "Lark Rise to Candleford" on Hulu.. I watch just for the costumes!! Especially the Post Office Postmistress Dorcus.. AMAZING dresses.
*Slaps table* THIS is the kind of nerdy shit I am here for! I loved the overview of the evolution of the garments and the words used to describe them. Cue many times of my mind being blown as you pointed out the origin of words I've seen millions of times without ever thinking of the connection (like "bodies" and "bodice"). Also thank you for giving me the mental image of James Gallier walking around New Orleans and talking architecture while using an outrageous fake French accent. I have no idea if he did but by God that's my head canon now.
Yaaaassss! This is exactly what I needed! I'm starting a 17th century English civil war project and I'm drowning in research with simultaneously too much information and too little. This will give me an excellent place to start from! Thank you so much!
i would argue that it's the true descendant of the corset and not the bra. In that it has no boning or maybe a little (underwire) and all its structure comes from using the weave and elasticity of the fabric with some padding in the chest.
TH-cam automatically started playing this video after I finished a corset video from another channel and I am loving this lol. The way you do cut edits and the humor is just great. I love it. Thank you.
Dear Matthew,I have Small pekoko portable color printer,A perfect gift itself and perfect for custom T-shirt.it can print colorful Text,logo,Qr code,Bar code,pictures,tattoos on wood,fabric,paper,ribbon,stone,and included originally HP multicolor ink cartridge,if you are interested,you can search "PEKOKO"on Amazon or click www.amazon.com/dp/B08LP7W6JD?ref=myi_title_dp
Just one thing, if it can help understanding the difference between corsets and stays during 18th century : in the french definition of corsets, it is written that corsets are garments without bones ("vêtement sans baleines") that women would wear as a "déshabillé", which is the kind of clothes you wear only at home, in private circumstances or with close friends and family members. So, as I understand it, the corset would be worn at home during relaxed moments, as a garment less rigid and maybe more comfortable than stays, which would be worn in public when the shape of the body really mattered... But they would not be worn together. It's really fascinating !
Hello, I'm forgiving you from France ahah, and I'm also trying to reach you for my Master dissertation (on Instagram) ! I really appreciate your videos which demystify so many things, and I want to show to the university world how important your work is ! Many thanks in advance
When you called corsets and stays cousins, it reminded me of how my mom always told me that your eyebrows should be sisters, not twins. And I always told her that mine were cousins, not sisters
i’ve been wondering so often about this!! i’m really interested in historical dress but i never know where/how to start with research, so this was so wonderful
Stay history is so underrated. I love it. Interesting that the stay makers were men not women. So much to ponder on when looking at paintings of stay makers.
Yeah, but putting all of that boning, in tiny little boning chanel is pretty exhausting, and requires sometimes a lot of strength. I'm currently working on stays and I'm exactly at that moment and it's so hard😂😂 I wish someone could do it at my place. I thought I had strength in my hands but these back panels are giving me troubles😂😂
I love that they think that the doctors, who had issues keeping women alive during childbirth, could cut a person open to remove a rib or three and keep them alive after!
@@mementomori1022 , hence the last part of my comment, "and keep them alive after!"
@@mementomori1022 I hate to be pedantic (who am I kidding, it’s entertaining as hell), _but_ the risk of death during childbirth was often related to the risk of death after invasive surgery because both were usually infections. Though haemorrhaging was a concern, it was often femoral fever that swept hospitals with birth wards.
@@GuiSmith It is honestly surprising when you figure out how the doctor who thought "If we washed our hands and equipment thoroughly between sick people we won't spread the sickness" had actual proof that this worked, but the other doctors didn't like his attitude so ignored him and he ended up in a mental asylum....
Yea it was largely actually the medical practices causing infection and sepsis in women in child birth because they were very unsanitary and literally gave women infections. Its not so much of child birthing, women have birthed children since the begining of time, its because of monopolistic practices via force of globalist agendas to have mass dependency on pharmaceuticals and changing natural tradition that drastically effected maternal mortality rate, they screwed with it, changed up traditional practices, were so unsanitary and to forceful and harsh, and then later improved their sucky practices with "doctoral" and pharmaceutical aid.
Women don't need doctors in labo 9.5 times out of 10, emergencies especially today with some actually legitimately helpful advancements, yet not without it indoctrination and henderance still in labor that causes more problems than helps, and one intervention leads to more it cascades and usually doctors want to do something that's unnecessary because of monopolized pharmaceuticals medical standards brought on by these large organizations formed by these globalists like the world health organization fda, nih, cdc, etc etc
In contrast to one another commenter said
What was the first electrical medical device? None other than the female stimulator. A medical vibrator for the treatment of hysteria. Have a miserable/ nervous wife? Send her off to get diddled by the Doctor...
I am squealing with joy at how far the costuming community has come in getting lots of ACTUAL ACCURATE INFORMATION out into the mainstream in this area. Nowadays it's like a relentless collective flood of SERIOUSLY GUYS WE'RE NOT DEAD YET NO REALLY and Actual Research in THIS level of detail, and it's a joy to see!
Cathy, yes! I’m so appreciative of this too🙏💗
Abby! Look what you did! You made Cathy squeal! (Hee Hee! Nobody said that's a bad thing -- cuz it's not!)
Oh, the joy
💜💜💜
I’m unable to imagine you squealing. A little dance with demure hand clapping, maybe.
Look as a woman who is "blessed" in boob department a corset/stays seems like it would be hella more comfortable on my shoulders and back than the current over the shoulder bolder holders.
100% it is! And also can relieve lower back pain
Corsets & Stays are *sooooo* much better for chest support! so so much better!
Spoiler alert. It IS
I have a 52 inch bust measurement and a 41 inch below bust measurement. I have never found a "comfortable" bra. My corset is comfortable and supportive. I can adjust the lacing so that everything fits.
I've had back issues since high school and as a new mom who's body has changed, my corset is so important to me
It helps relieve my lumbar pain, I breastfed so it keeps my boobs up where they should be, and it gives me a smooth tummy which makes my clothes fit nicer
I’d be down for an entire series about this tbh
I probably will do more, I just need ... time... lots of time... 😂
I'll second that!
Yes! I'd love more timelines for underpants too.
Same! I'd also love to learn about when things changed over from using shapewear to create, well, shape and putting emphasis on changing the actual body instead. What was going on in society and in the clothing industry to create that change?
There's a great book from the Minnesota Historical Society Press called In the Mood for Munsingwear about 20th century underwear. Highly recommend!
As a currently 6mo pregnant woman with her second baby, I can see SO MANY health benefits to corsets for women in the past! Women had babies, usually LOTS of babies, or they died in child birth quite often. Being pregnant usually causes diastasis recti (separation of the abs), causing structural instability. Without proper PT and rehab, it can cause all sorts of issues, including issues with subsequent pregnancies where the baby won’t be in the right position because the skeletal structure of the mom isn’t optimal. I’m currently wearing a belly support band to counteract ALL of those issues (and yet no one would sneeze at my using it now, so why would women have sneezed at “corset” support then?). There are also issues with organs not being supported correctly because of poor core strength. So corseted support may have helped keep organs in place more than be the cause of the displacement! We are just now starting to understand much of these issues that most women/mothers face, and yet past generations dealt with the consequences in very practical ways. They may not have known how to address the underlying problem with functional physical therapies, but they did creat garments that helped with so many issues. If you were faced with possible death from a baby not being in optimal position or dealing with crippling joint issues from lack of stabilization v wearing a supporting garment every day, you’d wear the garment! And that doesn’t even touch the topic of breast size and the added weight of lactating breasts! The sad thing is that we have become so far removed from what it means and is like to be a biologically functioning female, that we have lost all ties to the women that came before us and can’t begin to comprehend their realities of day to day life! They weren’t just vain and oppressed women. They were practical and purposeful people who we should learn from and not put down because we do not fully understand them!
I had to wear a belly band in my last pregnancy as well. I would've totally preferred a corset honestly. That thing was a nightmare for me to fit correctly!
This makes all the sense. I’m postpartum and would love a pair of stays 😂
I'm also postpartum and I'm wearing my corset for back support because deadlifting a rapidly growing baby is HARD. I had access to a maternity corset too without boning and I preferred it to my belly band because it didn't cut into my ribs. But of course my MIL thought I was gonna hurt my baby so you know. Corset myths alive and well. 🙄 (Even though maternity corsets were still used even after bras came into fashion well into the first half of the twentieth century...)
I’m telling ya! There was very legit reasons to wear support. I have a feeling those who demonized them either were single and not mothers or it was for ideological reasons, not practical ones! My first was an emergency c-section and I couldn’t wear support because it just hurt too much! But that may have contributed to the longer recovery and instability of this pregnancy!
Yep. SOO agree with you. I have diastasis recti, got it with my 4th child, and oddly, or disturbingly, enough I split in the first trimester. My next (and final) pregnancy was TWINS! After all these years, I finally got my sternum to point downward again, though I still have a couple of ribs that are distended. And a couple of weeks ago, I completely forgot myself and sat STRAIGHT UP in bed, and had to wear every binder and cincher I had to relieve the non-sense and pain that that caused. It's hard to be an upright human. I used to do sit-ups to relieve a hereditary bad back, and now I can't even do that.
Last historical reference to ‘stays’ my granny in 2010 before she passed away aged 96. She was brought up by her Victorian farmer grandmother (whose mother had been a dressmaker) and she ALWAYS referred to her control underwear as ‘having her stays on’ my mind was boggled as a child!!! 😂
I hope your family kept some of the dresses your great grandmother made.. that would be awesome 😊
My mother always talked about "stays" as foundational undergarments that all "ladies" should wear. I was a teenager in the 1970's. I thought she was nutz. And I still do not wear a bra - I am VERY petite, tho.
That’s some amazing history. Thanks for sharing
I will always watch deep dives into the history of words and the evolution of language. It's so fascinating
Check out the podcast history of English. It's all about how history formed English
@@kaysprerogative6746 I love that podcast!
And occasionally infuriating. I've had to learn how to silence my, "Um, actually..." knee jerk response to so many things 😫
Ikr!!! I love studying middle english! Bodies to bodice makes total sense!
Me too!
3:20 women today also use surgery to get the right size/shape (there’s still an ideal shape....think of the instabody) what’s interesting to me is that they’re still adding padding to the same areas, it’s just fat underneath the skin instead of a bustle underneath the skirt.
Gross, but YES, when you put it like that, it makes total sense.
th-cam.com/video/DDU7OCvVlXw/w-d-xo.html
the hilarious thing about your rant about women dying from corsets is....my nan actually DID have an 18 inch waist on her wedding day
but she's also a tiny, very very slim 5'2 woman (or was when she was married, she's shorter now) who weighs less than I did as a pre-teen
perfectly possible for someone to have that small of a waist without a corset, but you have to be small everywhere else too, bodies are designed to be in proportion
Yeah, I had a friend who had Scarlett's waistline as a teenager. She was like 5' even. And that was without a corset. She'd have made Scarlett green with envy.
I have friends who have very lean, lanky shapes so I always eyeroll so hard at saying certain extant clothes were "obvious a teenager's dress". I know people who have those proportions who are 36. They have no desire to, but could lace down to 18-20" easily. I can do 23-45 waist-hip if I tried because that's what my body is shaped like. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes, even the ones people think are extreme and ridiculous.
@@frockups5931 I always thought the "this was a teen's dress" conclusion was a combination of small size and minimal wear, as opposed to a small garment that had been worn over many years.
I'm 5' and very petite, when I'm at my natural weight of 102lbs my waist is 19" but I look so childish when I'm thin so I gained weight and now have a 27" waist. Currently trying to train it back down 😓🤣
I've seen explanations also that smaller dresses were less likely to be mined for fabric to make new things, since they had less fabric in them. As a result, more survived.
As someone who used to live in an old house which had wide stone walls and was only heated by fire places in the winter, I can completely understand why someone might layer underwear and clothing in a bizarre way. My pyjama days were generally corsets, vest tops, pj's, jumper and jeans days. My sister in law would sometimes wear 2 bras because every layer helps. We could never understand why my father in law didn't seem to get cold, now I realise most of his clothes were wool.
Oh, wool. I live in an old-ish house for my area (built around 1900) and the radiators aren't quite up to the task of keeping us warm enough in the winter, so I'm highly considering making some long wool skirts.
@@bridgetthewench the Restoring Ross blog has stuff about that. I can't recall the right term for what he has in his 1800 Queen Anne that is keeping things toasty in winter, but he blogged about it. And it's in conjunction with the radiators.
@@bridgetthewench from someone who has lived in old freezing flats with no insulation and no heating during winter the way we kept warm was tights under trackpants, woollen thermals under multiple thrifted woolen jumpers. Possum socks and three hot water bottles. I can imagine havin a coal range going for cooking all day, multiple layers of underwear and some kind of head gear u would be the perfect temp
@@melissaockey1346 Yes, all the layers! I have numerous handmade hats, though they're acrylic, not wool, and they make such a difference.
Could strip down to your shift or shift and stats when cooking. Keep a coat, robe or cloak type garment handy in case someone came by.
I love this. A serious examination by a serious scholar who is serious about not being overly serious and stuffy is a serious step forward for scholarship! Thank you, Abby.
Seriously, well said! Thank you.
You mean a non-stuffy, approachable scholar? Yep 🥰
Underrated comment
Oh dear, well if you think doing web searches for “stays” is troublesome, please please please don’t look up “boning” 😂😂
Yeah.. I did that mistake 😂 kinda daaahhh Moment 🙄😂
I don't even know if safe search would help with that 😬
You can but you have to put like 16th century etc to get the results you want
@@carlyalakija4703 or maybe it'll just come up with colonial boners fhkshdksjdksjsks
lmaO
The word “stays” is a hard one to promote using an algorithm, since it can be a verb as well as a noun, and is used in far more different contexts than “corset” is.
Yea
Boning vs cording explanation:
Boning is to a corset as your bones are to your body.
Cording is to a corset as cartilage is to your ears.
I used to do ballet. The costumes were designed by Pat Padilla of Houston Ballet. One thing I remember about the design of the classical ballet costume was the bodice. Often, the bodice looked like many of the stays shown in this video. I've also had to wear a corset with Victorian style gowns. Both proved quite supportive and were not the torture devices they are often made out to be.
You’re KIDDING. I’ve literally been wondering about this question for a month now and been too afraid to ask. Thank you so much!
Too afraid to ask! 🤣🤣 I love this so much.
But also, fuck gate keeping! Ask your questions!!
Every time Abby said “corsets became mainSTAYS in women’s garments” I laughed
^^^ Same, lolll. She also says "radical SHIFTS in women's undergarments", she doesn't even know the puns.
You lightly touched on it, but I'd love a Corset vs Bodice explanation. I feel like most people today call all things a corset, which I don't -think- is accurate
"I hope you guys are ready for an entomology rabbit hole" always Abby. Always.
I did not know that torso length was a factor in the ability to lace down. I have plenty of squish but my hips and ribs touch.
Etymology, not entomology. Entomology is the study of insects.
Sorry. I didn't know how to spell it and trusted autocorrect. That's always a mistake.
@@SarahBent I’m a fellow ribs-sit-on-hips person. I was skinny for many years, and even then (about 100 pounds and 5’2”) I didn’t look like I had a very slender waist because there was just no space for narrowing. I think standing tall and sort of stretching myself up I have about an inch between my bottom rib and top of hip bone. It made finding dresses so difficult that I just stopped wearing dresses. And I was a big fan of dropped waist pants because regular pants waistbands sat on my ribs, or gauged into my ribs, unsurprisingly not a comfy sort of situation.
omg, as someone who has recently ("recently"as in - in the year 2020 which has been about five thousand years long) done google searches on the difference among corset, stays, pair of bodies, and jumps I thank you for helping clear the confusion. Sort of clear the confusion. This is terrific, thank you!
@A. K. V. - I freely admit to still being confused by the terms, timeline, and designs. More pictured example would have helped me. Now, she has tossed "mantua" into the mix. Are these garments all manutuas or is a mantua something else entirely? Aaaarghh! I'll have to follow the link Ms Cox provided.
@@MossyMozart
A mantua is a type of gown.
I was really hoping for a family tree type flow chart when you said corsets and stays are cousins and then brought up bodies, jumps, and brassieres. I'm also really happy that when I became interested in modern corsets, I somehow missed or skipped all that annoying myth garbage and went straight to people who knew what they were actually talking about.
With all the jokes, puns, and memes in this video, I’m really surprised Abby said “mainstays” twice without any emphasis. I wasn’t sure if it was on purpose or a missed opportunity lol
Yup, and 1900s radical SHIFTS in women's undergarments.
This is so fascinating, i always thought the difference would be in the corset's more drastic shapeing or something, really wouldn't have expected the distinction to be in the bone density
"Women had their ribcages removed" I can't stop laughing, I just picture someone having their ENTIRE ribcage plucked out like 'nah I don't need this' 😂
Even “just” removing the bottom pair of ribs before modern anaesthesia and antibiotics send bizarre to me.
@@ragnkja Absolutely!
Story you didn't ask for: When I told my gran I was making a proper Victorian corset, she instantly told me about how women were having their ribs removed etc etc 🙃 I was like 'no gran, just think about it for two seconds. Why would women voluntarily undergo a seriously dangerous procedure for pure vanity, when a very neccesary tooth pulling could leave you with a nasty infection?'
She immidiately did a complete 180 turn and just said 'Yeah I thought there was something not right about that.' 😂
Me wanting to learn more about historical dress: *click*
My chest dysphoria: I’m about to end this man’s whole career
@Ig-nat-ius oh same, im this close to making flat front stays to hide them away. there were unboned reducers in the 20s to make the waiflike, more androgynous shape but i dont know much abt them
I (as an enby) personally like the “unnatural” (for modern standards) look that corsets give, and it’s also a lot easier to breath in them than in binders 😓.
@@insidiouschaos812 ngl that was why i came to this video,,, trying to understand how to make a stay-binder
You could probably use a masculine style corset with padding at your waist underneath to get a straighter, flatter shape. I don’t know if they make them reach the upper chest area, but I’m sure you could find someone to make (or diy) a masculine corset that does. With padding at your waist, you’d probably have to tighten it less to get the same desired result.
Edit: i have no experience, I’m just afab enby and considering this method for days that my chest dysphoria strikes.
I'm genderqueer and I've been doing historical reenactment for over a decade. I remember being in high school and putting on my Civil War style corset backwards and trying on clothes over it to see myself flat-chested and reduce dysphoria. I even would wear it when I did 18th century men's costumes. I've been wanting to design and make a soft binder/bra inspired by regency short corset/stays for a while.
When you said, "Boobs!" I started laughing, got weird looks from my kids, and I just yelled, "BOOBS!" They blushed and walked away. I feel it is my job to keep them on their toes and normalize body talk, so thank you!
Good parent!
Hilarious! My kids have zero chill regarding those matters and will say things like “wow mama your boobies are extra jiggly today” and I’m like ummmmmm
Boobs 💓
@@AnastasiaR 😂 how old are they?
@@kathrynehiersche1817 the one who made the jiggly comment is a 3yr old little girl (she’s wild) 😆 but my others are 6 (boy) and 7 (girl) ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
This video taught me that while I've never worn a corset, I have the optimum body type for altering my shape with one. I have a long torso, and I am comprised of plenty of squish.
I do not want steal a roll off of Abby’s dinner plate if she’s wearing a busk...lose a hand.
This is amplified by my Taurus sun... 😂
th-cam.com/video/DDU7OCvVlXw/w-d-xo.html
At 22:20 when Abby used the fighting clip it made me think of The four Musketeers movie from 1974 with Faye Dunaway as Milady. She pulls out a dagger from her busk area!
“Brassière” is pronounced bra-zee-air rather than bra-zee -ray, in English “brassiere” can also be pronounced bra-zeer. It’s a French word that must have entered around that time, eventually getting shortened to “bra” which we use today - though brassiere is still the full form of the word.
Since there are two of the letter s, it'd be a more sharp sound, like bra-see-air. This distinction is definitely important for two other French words: poisson and poison!
THANK you lol I had to pause on the dictionary page to make sure it wasn't actually written as brasseré or something
@@Kato_Rin Very true! It is still use in France and is just a cloth bra, mostly used by pre-teens to cover before you can fit in an A cup. In my childhood anyway :) Every region has its own fun in France lol
It is more a soft C sound versus a hard Z like Bra-cee-air. Also Braz-iere is an Anglo take on the French word brassière. Although I don't have any historical data on this, I'm franco fluent.
This is the video I needed!!! Ever since discovering the historical fashion ...realm?... I've yearned for an exhaustive scholarly breakdown of support garments. Abby, you're always freaking awesome. edit: have you ever considered creating a short course?
We’ve got bodice and bodies and then “corset” is derived from Latin “corps” and then French “cors” meaning “body” 😂😭
Bodisss
Bodeez
Bods
Boddiessssssssssss
And furthermore,
Bones
Boobz
Bon bon
Bob
Bod
Boddy
Boobyyy
Thank you
@@AnastasiaR why do these comments speak to me on a spiritual level 😂
The editing, the information, the bashing on current fashion!
**Chef kiss**
also the himym snippets!
Got so used to the "hehe" things every time a stay or body or waste/waist punny thing got said that I was genuinely surprised that a "shift" one got through unacknowledged lol
I just turned in a final project where I designed a “dream museum exhibit” around the politics and semiotics of 18th century fashion. It was probably the most fun I had with a project...ever. Grad school is awesome sometimes 😅
I know I’m two years to late, but as a fantasy writer who wants to get the details right, your channel is amazing! My main character wears smooth stays is something I needed to know 😊
I was honestly just wondering what the difference between corsets and stays was last night! Perfect timing and informative as always. Random question, but an IMPORTANT one: what breeds are your dogs??? They're so cute!
Suba is a Mini American Shepherd (Mini Aussie) and Gryff is a Labrador mix! ❤
I got my first dirndl six or seven years ago, and I always wondered why everyone looks good in them. I've fallen down many, many a stays video rabbithole in that time. This is the first time I realize, a dirndl bodice is a boned garment (even the cheap ones), worn with petticoats and very specifically constructed bras. You can get them in all the colors, skirt lengths, bodice fronts, neckline cuts and frou-frou levels. There's a few elements that have to be there, but the main characteristic is the shape.
I'm now twice as tempted to get a sew-your-own-dirndl book (or... three) as I was this morning.
Seriously, one oft my best life-choices was to get married in a Dirndl. It was both comfortable and flattering and I am able to wear it again without getting (too many) weird looks. On top of that, I could easily alter it when I gained weight during and right after pregnancy and eventually back to its former size. And regardless of my size, it still looked fantastic and flattering. Funny it ever fell out of fashion for every day wear, but even in Bavaria and Austria it's not something you would wear outside of work (waitresses often do) or festivities (like the Oktoberfest). - I am German, in case somebody is wondering, but from the north where dirndls are even less commonly worn these days than in the south.
@@nicoleroth3127 It all depends on where you live I think. On one hand, on the countryside, there's a lot of festivities and additional occasions where dirndls are more than appropriate to wear, so they do at the very least least work as a party/formal/folk dress (also depending on the style). Some examples are Zeltfeste (rural parties), that are hosted up to every two weeks, any slightly formal occasion from a nice family dinner to a wedding (both as a bride (or groom) and as an attendee) and any traditional activity, like participating in a traditional band or choir, or being part of any club that deals with Austrian/German traditions (like a Trachtenverein). On the other hand, the more rural you get, the more normal it is for people to wear dirndls as everyday dresses. I live in Austria (in city though, but I have friends from the countryside) and it's not at all uncommon to see, especially more mature, women on the countryside wearing dirndls as everyday clothes.
Also, being from Germany, I assume you already know at least some of this. I still wanted to go into details for all the international people in this comment section.
@@killitwithfire5377 Very well explained!
In the end that is exactly what I meant, though you explained it much better. - That for (most) younger people a dirndl is not considered everyday wear anymore but is still worn on special occasions or at work and regularly so. But sadly it's not quite the same than to think of it as an everyday garment like one would with a pair of jeans. I think in this instance, the older ladies definitely got it right by still doing so and wearing something both practical and flattering. - Oh, and pretty timeless. ;)
And before someone is wondering why I got married in a dirndl when I'm from the more northern parts of Germany (known in Bavaria as 'Preussen' and with that is considered a foreign country ;P), where, as said, dirndls are not at all common even on special occasions:
1. My hubby's family is originally from Bavaria though he grew up in South Africa (as many emigrants do, they kept their traditions)
2. We lived in Bavaria at the time.
3. I'm a clumsy person at the best of times and a classic wedding gown especially one worn over a hooped petticoat would have been a recipe for disaster.
@@nicoleroth3127 Hey, I got married in a dirndl as a young person, and it wasn't long ago either. It was comfortable. Affordable. Sustainable (at least until I got sick and gained 20 kilos, but hey). Also, it had color options that didn't make me look dead. And we lived in Bavaria at the time, so most people were okay with it.
I also haven't /quite/ let go of the fantasy of getting/making a wardrobe full of different dirndl and just making them everyday wear. For my... office job. In NRW.
This is perfect timing! I want to make a corset or an pair of stays (because they’re beautiful and bras exacerbate my heartburn issues) and I’ve been trying to figure out what the difference is!
So could you say that a stay makes you stay where you should be and a corset sets your core?
*pair of stays
🤯
That section about Busks is very interesting as I didn't know you could remove the centre piece so easily. I'm 100% going to use that for my rpg character. Thanks Abby!
"Une jupe" would be translated simply as "skirt" not specifically as a petticoat. Taking grammar in to account, you get something closer to "body for a skirt" instead of "bodied/body of petticoat". Semantics, I know, but still a good distinction to make
Edit: Please read replies for full, fact checked information as I was slightly inaccurate here initially. Thank you to Pernelle Blaise for prompting me to dig further!
Except that “skirt” most likely wasn’t a word back then 🤷🏻♀️
@@cassierichardson1966 True, most likely skirt was not a widely used term in English, probably favouring terms such as petticoat or overskirt or other words of which I'm not aware, *but* that doesn't change the meaning of the French word. "Jupe" still means skirt even if English speakers wouldn't have translated it as such way back when. "Skirt" not being in the English vocabulary of the time doesn't negate the definition of a word in a completely different language
Editing after my second reply: Even though I was incorrect on jupe always having meant skirt, it still holds true that one language not having a certain word absolutely does not change the meaning of a word in a different language. Languages may borrow from each other, but for all intents and purposes they're still separate entities with separate vocabularies.
The meaning seems to have changed over time, because if you look closely at 16:40 petticoat is translated as jupe and skirt as bord. So her interpretation of corps de jupe as body of petticoat is not wrong.
@@pernelleblaise3915 Alright, I'll bite and do the deep dive. I'm curious now lol
SO...
Let's start with the origin of the word before the meaning. The word "jupe" came from the arabic word "juppah" (some sources spell it "djuppa" or "juppa" or even substitute the double p with bb. Consistent-ish pronunciation, but translation from other alphabets is hard and everyone has an opinion lol) and it meant "a loose men's undergarment". Sounds like it would naturally evolve to petticoat, right? Except instead the earliest references we have of the word date to around the 12th century and meant a tunic men wore under armour, or simply a man's tunic. The later 1694 Dictionnaire de l'Académie française defined jupe as "a padded men's doublet fitted on the bust" (translation by 3rd party source, not myself, so no conflict of interest). This is closer to the later use as some form of bodice. But apparently this word has had kind of a circular evolution?? We see references in literature to jupe meaning a woman's skirt in between the 12th century and the publication of that dictionary in 1694. There is even a separate definition for jupe in an earlier 17th century text describing it as "a feminine garment which hugs the waist and extends to the base of the legs" (again, translated, and not by myself). It is non-specific on whether it is an under or outer garment. Then around the 1810s we start to see the definition change again and used more in the context like the video mentions, as a type of bodice piece in the phrase "corps de jupe". The commonly understood meaning in modern times is now as... a skirt. In conclusion, while the word "jupe" did not in fact always refer to a skirt, that much is correct, it was not used to specifically mean a petticoat from what I can dig up.
@@pernelleblaise3915 If I may remind - petticoat was indeed the outer skirt worn with the open gown (this does not exclude it being also a word for any and all underpetticoats. "Skirt" in that dictionary at 16:40 seems to have been a word for the part of a jacket, what we'd a "peplum" today.
I don't know how it was in England, but in Paris, while the stay makers kept a monopoly on stays and half-boned stays, "blanc corsets" (unboned) where the domain of the mantua maker (couturière) and had a different cut. I wonder if it factors in the birth of early 19th century corded corsets. I mean, they wore their products, unlike most stay makers, and could have been more adaptable to fashion, or easier to talk to for their clients...
I'll make that my headcanon till proven wrong.
The dichotomy of your educational lecture with “titties up to the eyeballs” anecdotes is why you’re hilarious to me. It’s exactly how I prefer to learn lol
I never get enough of the dumpster fire....
Stays are more comfortable than bras, but have never given me an 18” waist.
Agree on all counts!
As a larger busted lady, I wholeheartedly concur. #BringBackStays #BrasAreTheDevil
Oh yeah, the dumpster fire is great. 20th century myths about corsets are great for having a laugh at modernism's expense.
There's a reason that my mum's colleague, a trained corsetière & seamstress was still making corsets into the 1980s, not for costumers but for ordinary ladies. They worked in a mini department store in Cornwall, UK, and Ethel was making corsets until just before she died.
I read a book of two french corsetière of 1910 (with corsets pattern) , and they were already saying shit about the type of corset they use 15 years ago, and they also had a corset name Louis XV, and they wrote in the book "don't worry ladies, this is not the torture machine they used in the reign of Louis XV"
That let me WTF, the vision of corset (stays in this example) as torture devises is so much older. (Women of the past did already shade other women of the past, and this is a great example to show how humans will always be humans 😂😂)
As a 16th century nerd, I'm going to thank you for doing the early digging. Its always wonderful to see you doing excellent research.
Thank you for this video! I discovered your channel just over a year ago, and I was inspired to try a corset. I now have a growing collection of corsets in my closet, and yes, most days I'm wearing one of my corsets while I work.
I work from home at a desk all day, and I found stress and my G cups were pulling my shoulders down toward the keyboard. I've been work-at-home since 2007 and my posture has suffered (a lot). Hubby made a passing comment about me always being "slumped" over the computer. When I do finally stand up to take a break, my back feels like I've been hauling a heavy load all day!
You gave me the courage to try a corset, and the change was dramatic! My underbust corsets are not only colorful, playful, and decorative, but they provide an exoskeleton to ease my aching back! The steel boning corrected my posture and gave my chest a weightless feel. The relief was instantaneous! I now wear a corset most work days when I feel stressed or at the first hint of pain. My corsets helped me survive cooking the big family holiday meals.
Corsets are such a blessing! Thank you so much for opening my eyes!
In Canada we were too busy fighting rabid moose and doing unspeakable things in the north to bother ourselves about European fashions.
*unspeakable things?*
@@simplykathrynrebeca Probably colonization
Check out the fashion in Keystone Stereoview pictures from Canada that were taken for Stereoscope viewers. They are from late 19th century / early 20th century. Some pictures are out there from Barkerville, BC as well.
@@kathrynvincent1563 yo we have the same name, and you're probably right
@@kathrynvincent1563 exactly so!
Since I did a Vitorian corset course I'm OBSESSED with "boob fashion" history! It's absolutely magical how beaty padrons change from time to time and cultures! Loved this vídeo, love your work, love your personality! Thank you
We so needed this because no one who knows the difference while marketing 🙈. Love the fact that we're talking about how to get the fashionable shape historically and how its totally cool to pad stuff out if you don't have the "shape " desired .
I would love to see a video comparing the comfort level of each style (stays, corded corsets, over/underbust, etc) and what pros and cons are of each beyond just the shape given. This subject is so fascinating, thanks for sharing!!
Abby: great lippie and passionate about boobs okay?!
Griffie: just happy to be here!!!!!
Subie: doin crimes! In charge here! Floof ears and pearly teefs!
The viewers: thrilled!!!
I love this comment
Etymology is one of my favorite words. And now we need shopping advice for our new corset.
I have been doing some digging into Spanish gown making, and found that a pair of bodies were called "corpinos" from the spanish word for body, cuerpo. If you Google corpino, however, you will find bras! The name has stuck.
Oooh, do you have any good references? I picked up Historia de la moda en España: el vestido femenino entre 1750 y 1850 but now I want to dig more into pre-Bourbon fashion!
@@brennerc180 i only just started by digging through pinterest and google. I started by looking at paintings of Infantas from the colonial era because i was fascinated with the shape of the underpinnings in comparison to their Elizabethan counterparts. I wish i had more to share with you, but if I come across more info I will let you know.
you are a gem, Abby. I so "busted" up when the "its a bad week to be a cheesburger" promo came on !!!! Genius !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lowkey kinda want an overbust corset for my standing desk. I feel like it would reduce the amount of things I wear to maintain proper posture and not have back pain.
THIS IS AMAZING!!! and laughing my butt off.
😂😂
Very informative--I've always been confused about the difference between the two.
On another note: the floating dumpster fire never fails to amuse me, lol.
On yet another note...DOGGIES!!
The floating dumpster fire is the best. Makes me feel bad for the early feminists who had their movement co-opted to destroy something the patriarchy wanted gone, but I do quite like laughing at the men who started these ridiculous myths and all the "modern" and "progressive" women who mindlessly bought these myths and still believe them.
Abby in November 2020: The amount of engineering it takes to create a corset is simply incredible... which is why I don’t make them.
Abby in January 2021: ...oops
French word police here ! Brassiere is pronounced "Bra-si-air'' with an 's' not a 'z'. Loved your video btw !!
Your dogs definitely spark joy! Cx
I'm glad they do for someone, they were driving me BONKERS when filming this 😂
OMG, yes!! I need more dog footage!! :D
I came to hear about boning and boobies but the cover of "Les Poisson" was a MAJOR bonus! Keep puppy outtakes coming!
This was lovely! It's seriously great to actually see a nuanced, but clear story without giant leaps to keep it simple. And all the little outtakes were perfect.
Abby, can we please start designing modern outfits to work over some sort of stays/corset/bodies? Not to go back to voluminous gowns that don't fit in cars but just to take advantage of all this back/boob/posture support? Tell me honestly, what design problems are holding us back?
Check out Morgan Donner's video titled something like I Wore A Corset For A Week. She goes into the (very minimal) pitfalls of wearing boned garments under modern clothes.
Smoothing the lines at the underboob and at the tops of the boobs is difficult with modern clothing
@@ah5721 I know they used to use corset covers to smooth those lines. I'm wondering why we can't do similar. It may not work just to layer standard modern clothing with a corset, but surely we can design a new take on the old foundations, and perhaps create a new genre.
The voluminous doesn't fit in a car part of the outfit is usually the skirt. And that doesn't have that much to do with the corset. I think it would be ok to keep the top part mostly historical and just have a smaller skirt, with no crinoline, bustle cage, extreme padding. The top could have the same layers and tipes of garments (with maybe different embelishments and more casual looking fabrics).
@@psiholog.matei.gabriela Yes! So what we're looking for is something that does take advantage of modern fabrics/patterns/embellishments etc. and takes modern ideas of comfort and modesty and style into consideration, and looks at stays/corset as just a different foundation to build from. Not trying to recreate the old looks. But maybe some techniques could be useful, like piped seams maybe. Maybe add zippers or velcro if they would help. Not be afraid to mix it up!
Haven't even watched it, but I bet she does the whole "actress says that Corsets are killing me, I thought I would die, they are painful." And Abby handled it better than every other costuber! Great job Abby! As a watcher I am tired of being lectured on that subject :-)
I....need more stories of ladies hiding knives in their busk....someone with writing skills please make it so.
Also I am a bit cranky that our main boob holder options are painful underwire or shapeless bralettes. Eventually I may get cranky enough to figure out a more comfortable but shaped option with cording. An abomination stay.
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"Searching for bodies and stays in primary sources gets a lot of stuff about dead bodies and ships staying on course" 😆😆😆 The double-edged sword of keyword searching digitized connections! I feel SEEN!
I loved this exceedingly nerdy and nuanced etymology jaunt! Thank you for putting so much work into it.
Fascinating! I think you did a good job, I have a better understanding of the nuance between the terms. And thank you for the distinction between shape and size. Perhaps a future video dissecting when size took over from shape as a mainstay in women's fashion?
odontocete:
New Latin, from odont -
+ the Latin word cete, which is the plural of cetus meaning whale 🐋
Right when you were talking about how books change throughout the cycle I got an add for shark week lol.
Great video, I never knew the difference between stays and corsets.
I'm pretty sure it was a part of the video
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Loved this! I found a fast fashion corset. It's comfortable, supportive and it has a side zipper so I can get out of it in a snap.
Aaah, all the info!! Love this. So many years of studying history in uni and me just going "but what did they WEAR?!" Should've just found you sooner
Wow! l loved this! I wish I'd known this information when I made the (what are apparently) stays for my late 18th Century traveling dress back in the 1980s. Yes, post Amadeus, and the undergarment looks like some of the ones shown here. Looking at the pattern pieces in an old book from the SDSU library, it was confusing at first to understand what went where. I've never worn a busk (I can only imagine), but it was a challenge to wear said dress (with wig and hat) and drive to an event in my classic Mustang. My paternal grandmother was born in 1894, and it's fun to compare photos of her from 1912 and 1918, with those from 1924. She told me she felt shockingly modern when she first stopped wearing a corset. I still have one of her chemises from her youth.
I wonder how practical/easy it would be to hide a dagger in a busk...?
It depends on the style of busk and size of the dagger. In most cases I would say that it would be pretty difficult to do without damaging the corset/stays or the person wearing them. But maybe with a hefty enough busk and a small enough dagger???
Yessss I have a friend who makes custom knife handles and sheaths so if I ever make one and find or have made a slim enough blade I know who to talk to...
Stiletto. Attach the sheath to the interior of the stays.
It would need to be a stiletto dagger.
The amount of How I met your mother in the intro makes me… so happy
I want to make myself stays, but I also know my track record with finishing sewing projects 😔
You finally referenced The Doctor. You are now Goddess of all dress history in my book.
I'm so glad the Lengburg find got a mention (although a bit disappointed you didn't fit in medieval references to "breast bag"). It is one of my favorite historical finds. I especially love the fact that the bit between the cups was a piece of needle lace. It brings the piece alive, thinking about the woman wanting pretty and functional.
On a side note...who's your Doctor? I'm a Capaldi gal myself.
Omg!! This is my favorite kind of rabbit hole! I have also been fascinated with historical corsetry. That's what made me interested in historical clothing too. So yea, I'm super excited about this video! Thanks Abby!
I used the word 'stays' in my latest book and one of my beta readers was like 'what is a stay?' and then you posted this...so I shared this with them LOL
Your imitation of the faux French milliner was hilarious! It reminds me of when I worked at a Limited Express store in the early 90s and we had this 18th Century French theme in all our marketing. We even had gold-painted papier mache statues in our store that were reproductions from Versailles and a huge copy of a Fragonard painting. It was so pretentious for a store in a mall in the US South. And most of the employees had strong Southern accents which just made it very clear that there was nothing truly French about us. So it seems people are still doing the same things, even relatively recently.
0:05 me, a lesbian: * sweating *
😂😂😂😂😂
I can relate lmao
My exact reaction
Mood
I'm not even a lesbian, but still... definite area of interest!
I absolutely love how the historic dress community on TH-cam all constantly point their viewers to each others videos! There is so much support and respect - it's so rare and very needed! 😁😁
I don't mean to demean your wonderfully intelligent discussion of the over-shoulder boulder-holder history, but I have to know what the H*** foundation you're wearing because your skin looks AMAZING.
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Long etymological adventures are *the best*
Also I really appreciated the dog-reel, I had to say goodbye to my friend of 13 years earlier this year and actually had a moment today when I came in the front door and thought I heard paw scrabbles like I used to. I don't follow any dogtubers so ig this is my one stop shop for dress history, sewing tuts, unboxings and doggos!
Love the point about size v shape! I watched my husband go through the sense of failure and rejection many women feel because the sizes available fits people who work as models (? Anorexia.......). We discussed this. He had an "aha" moment. The size obsession actively damages the mental health and physical health of young women who don't measure "down" size wise. It's literally sad this has been characterized as the deliberate infliction of depressive anxiety and eating disorders - for profit. Thanks G
“So I hope you guys are ready for an etymology rabbit hole.”
[DANCES WITH JOY]
Yes! Perfect timing as I'm going to start my very first pair of Regency stays. Thanks for making this informative and fun!
Fun fact: the George Orwell novel A Clergyman's Daughter, published in the 1930s, uses the term "stays" for corset twice- once in describing a very old lady, the other in "a French phrase-book dated 1891. It was called All you will need on your Parisian
Trip, and the first phrase given was 'Lace my stays, but not too tightly'."
Can you please do a Historical look at the clothes on "Lark Rise to Candleford" on Hulu.. I watch just for the costumes!! Especially the Post Office Postmistress Dorcus.. AMAZING dresses.
This isnt on any UK streaming even though it was BBC but I loved her outfits! I was obsessed when it first came out.
I'd like to see a video on Outlanders clothing.
*Slaps table* THIS is the kind of nerdy shit I am here for! I loved the overview of the evolution of the garments and the words used to describe them. Cue many times of my mind being blown as you pointed out the origin of words I've seen millions of times without ever thinking of the connection (like "bodies" and "bodice").
Also thank you for giving me the mental image of James Gallier walking around New Orleans and talking architecture while using an outrageous fake French accent. I have no idea if he did but by God that's my head canon now.
I danced in my chair when you started signing Les Poissons!!! I love that song & no one remembers it.
Humming this all day now
I do. My sister watched The Little Mermaid every day for a year. I know most of every song.
Yaaaassss! This is exactly what I needed! I'm starting a 17th century English civil war project and I'm drowning in research with simultaneously too much information and too little. This will give me an excellent place to start from! Thank you so much!
I wonder what the direct ancestral line is of the modern camisole with a built in bra? Ye Olde Amazon lists that item as "shapewear".
i would argue that it's the true descendant of the corset and not the bra. In that it has no boning or maybe a little (underwire) and all its structure comes from using the weave and elasticity of the fabric with some padding in the chest.
TH-cam automatically started playing this video after I finished a corset video from another channel and I am loving this lol. The way you do cut edits and the humor is just great. I love it. Thank you.
Informative and giggles, keep being you Abby! Also, love the lip color.
I'll try! (& thanks it's colourpop - Cinderella)
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Just one thing, if it can help understanding the difference between corsets and stays during 18th century : in the french definition of corsets, it is written that corsets are garments without bones ("vêtement sans baleines") that women would wear as a "déshabillé", which is the kind of clothes you wear only at home, in private circumstances or with close friends and family members. So, as I understand it, the corset would be worn at home during relaxed moments, as a garment less rigid and maybe more comfortable than stays, which would be worn in public when the shape of the body really mattered... But they would not be worn together.
It's really fascinating !
Hello, I'm forgiving you from France ahah, and I'm also trying to reach you for my Master dissertation (on Instagram) ! I really appreciate your videos which demystify so many things, and I want to show to the university world how important your work is ! Many thanks in advance
When you called corsets and stays cousins, it reminded me of how my mom always told me that your eyebrows should be sisters, not twins. And I always told her that mine were cousins, not sisters
I feel like I need to read that dissertation now. Granted I'm just in undergrad so any dissertation will probably seem great.
i’ve been wondering so often about this!! i’m really interested in historical dress but i never know where/how to start with research, so this was so wonderful
Stay history is so underrated. I love it. Interesting that the stay makers were men not women. So much to ponder on when looking at paintings of stay makers.
Yeah, but putting all of that boning, in tiny little boning chanel is pretty exhausting, and requires sometimes a lot of strength. I'm currently working on stays and I'm exactly at that moment and it's so hard😂😂 I wish someone could do it at my place. I thought I had strength in my hands but these back panels are giving me troubles😂😂