Mr. Hockey himself, the late great Gordie Howe, once said that the greatest tragedy to befell the game of NHL hockey in his life was to see Bobby Orr's career ended prematurely by knee injuries. That's one heck of a gracious and kind thing to say, and quite a tribute to Bobby Orr. They don't come any more highly-regarded than Howe!
What a privilege it was to be a youngster in Massachusetts in the late 60’s-mid 70’s; we’d viewed moves and plays we’d never see again. You didn’t dare miss a game because you might miss another unbelievable feat on the ice by Bobby Orr. He was something to see.
It is a real shame that Orr's games were not preserved for posterity, particularly for his 1969-1970, the greatest single season any player has ever had in the history of the game. Perhaps somewhere in Boston TV archives at least some of these games might exist on videotape. That 1969-1970 season was the season when Orr's skating was at its peak. His game was, as Stephen Brunt wrote "the place were sport and art converge." By the 1971 playoffs, Orr's left knee was starting to bother him (in spite of a career high 139 points), and the knee got worse the following season. After that, Orr had just three more complete seasons left in his career. His speed had notably diminished, but his command of the game, his hockey sense, and his ability with the puck were better than ever.
@@thomasjefferson6 interesting, too bad, I read that the local tv station that covered the bruins simply rerecorded over the vhs tapes or whatever it was back then to save money, so they taped over all those bruin's games
I wonder if any of those TV stations in Massachusetts preserved any of those hockey games from those years. Perhaps some are lying around in a vault some place that could be restored, put into digital format, and made available to the world. Perhaps this is just a dream of mine...
@@thomasjefferson6Years ago I contact the new owners of Bostons old TV 38 (Bruins affiliate) and asked if they had any old games and could they be purchased. Infact they said they still had many of the old games on film but could not sell them without permission of The NHL. I both called and wrote the league office but never got a reply from them. There are some videos of many of Orr’s goals on TH-cam tube which prove the games exist in their entirely but may never will be seen because of The NHL.
@@Flashyfinancier Wishful thinking. Gretzky only played ~500 more games than Lemieux, but had over 1,100 more points than him. Lemieux would have had to average just over 2 points per game in those additional 500+ games to beat Gretzky, and that wasn't going to happen from a guy who put up 1.88 points per game, compared to Gretzky's 1.92. Lemieux was amazing, but Gretzky was better. 1,723 points in 915 games. The only way Lemeiux was going to beat Gretzky was to get _more_ than 1,134 points at 1.88 PPG, would be to play an additional 603 games [ at least ] _and_ maintain his 1.88 PPG, which isn't easy to do when you're not in your prime anymore. Even Gretzky went downhill towards the end of his career.
@@Flashyfinancier So, according to that argument, Ovechkin and Crosby are better than Lemieux and Gretzky. Btw, Gretzky started in the NHL 6 years earlier than Lemieux. They both played during the same era, so that argument is invalid.
By 1974-1975, Orr was not healthy. His left knee was bothering him constantly, although this did not greatly affect his performance on the ice. Trained observers could see that the speed of 1969-1970 was no longer there, but by 1974-1975 Orr was a more mature and even more intelligent player. He played all 80 games in this season, set a new record for goal scoring by a defenceman (46), scored 135 points, and won his second Art Ross Trophy, the last time any defenceman has ever done that. He then went into the 1975-1976 season, and had 18 points in his first 10 games. Boston now had both Brad Park and Bobby Orr as defencemen, but not for long. Orr's left knee locked up while he was sitting in a restaurant in November of 1975, prior to boarding a plane flight, and he never played for Boston again. He played only 20 games for Chicago in the 1976-1977 season, following his amazing performance in the first Canada Cup of 1976. Because of his knees (especially the left one) he sat out the entire 1977-1978 season. Attempting to make a comeback in the fall of 1978, he managed to play only six games for Chicago before finally calling it quits, knowing for sure that his left knee could no longer handle playing. Then upon retirement he found out that he had almost no money, courtesy of a man he trusted by the name of Eagleson. This is all very sad, but Bobby Orr was never a man to invite pity or moan about his sorrows. He rose above it all, and showed everyone that his greatness extended well beyond the hockey rink.
@@thomasjefferson6 Great comment! I remember vividly watching him in the early 70s, how explosive he was and how he could dominate the game offensively as a defensemen. He totally revolutionized the game! Also, he played in an era where the superstars such as himself and Bobby Hull were not protected by the officials! If only they had the medical treatments available back then to treat his knee properly, what could have been! The fans were robbed of enjoying him for at least another decade!
Orr didn't have the longevity to compile the stats that Gretzky had, but he dominated both offence and defence like no player in history. Orr was the complete package and for that, he is the GOAT.
no. before 99 it was a game of goons that only Canadians and upper NE watched. 99 got the rest of NA into it. i wouldn't even put Orr in the top 3. and only Candians new who Orr was until Gretsky came along
He was washed up by 1975. Meanwhile Gordie scored almost 50 points as a 52 year old in 1980. Orr's body wasn't built to last. Don't kid yourself. He's not even top 20.
@@rockinyouallnight Have you watched the hits he took on his left knee. He was slew footed so often during his career he needed 11 surgeries on his left knee. He could take hits, but knee on knee contact has ruined many careers. The fact he could continue even after several slew foots (basically playing on one leg) is amazing so no he is top 5 all time. He ranks 2nd in +/- in NHL history and did it in basically 10 seasons.
Orr is the only defenseman to win the scoring title and he did that twice. Gretzky tied for the scoring title his first year in the NHL on an Oilers team at that time that had only minimal talent around him. Who was better? It doesn't really matter when the question cannot be answered.
Gretzsky was not big so his playmaking skills were learned. { He watched Bobby Clarke.} Orr was simply a Jordanesque type of athlete that transcended the game. He was stronger than Gretzsky and had this natural ability that was ultimately complimented by his learned skill. Gretsky was a strategist while Orr was creative genious.
It's testament to Orr's greatness that despite playing in the highest scoring era in history,and despite playing in the same team as Gretzky Kurri and Messier Paul Coffey never exceeded Orr's record for most points scored in a season by a defenceman
Bobby Orr transformed the game in a way that no one before or since has done, not Gordie Howe, not Bobby Hull, nor Gretzky nor Lemieux. He was so good that the other players around him seemed to be playing at half-speed. Gordie Howe once said that the greatest tragedy to befell the NHL during his lifetime was seeing Orr's career cut-short by knee injuries. Considering the source, that is some high praise and a very fitting tribute to Mr. Orr. A measure of the esteem in which his fellow players held him, even the legends like Gordie.
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 - How do you know? They've never met in head-to-head competition. And if you put present-day players in equipment/skates from fifty years ago, how do you think they would do? Conversely, imagine how fast Orr could be using modern-day equipment. I'm not stating categorically that Orr would be the fastest; only that he was an elite athlete, the kind who thrives in any era. Historically-speaking, it is a mistake always to assume that just because something is newer, it must be better. The opposite also applies, of course. Orr's speed alone wasn't what made him special, it was his ability to execute while at full throttle that set him apart. Gordie Howe could do everything, but not at full speed; Bobby Hull was extremely fast, but couldn't do everything at speed. Orr combined both attributes into one. The Connor McDavid of his time, if you will. Speaking of him...seeing Conner McDavid skate, I don't think anyone is beating that guy anytime soon in terms of speed and the ability to execute. Impressive.
What player... in any sport... was identified as a potential all star at 12 years old? Bobby was and then signed to a professional contract at 14 years old. He is the greatest played ever and always will be...
Orr was by far an all around better player than Gretzky. Orr could literally do whatever he wanted with the puck. If he wanted to skate the puck all the way into the other teams net he could. Whenever he wanted practically. There's never been a player like that at least not to Orr's extent. Keep in mind, Orr was a defenceman too. He was literally unstoppable. Gretzky put up insane numbers to be fair but Gretzky was a gifted goal scorer. Orr was gifted in pretty much every aspect and revolutionized hockey. If we're talking goal scoring IQ, yea Gretzky knew how to get the puck in the net better than anyone. But if we're talking as an overall hockey player? I say Orr. Easily.
You vastly undersell Gretzky by calling him a goal scorer. Scoring wasn’t even his greatest talent. He was a puck handler and a playmaker and a clutch performer. But I agree he wasn’t a defender nor a physical player.
@@Sportstouring ummmm what lolllll u hate orr don't u that's just stupid orr didn't play in a league where a team could win a cup with a goalie like Grant fuhr an his 3.94 gaa orr made the bruins better he didn't have no superstar support he also could play defense really well he dominated the league was the best dman every year he played more then 20 games expect his rookie year he was runner up for the Norris 8 straight Norris trophies he scored 120 points in 69 70 second was Phil Esposito at 99 third was Stan mikta at 86 an the rest had under 75 an orr was just as good in the dzone as the ozone an he wasn't afraid to block shots or lay the body an he played on destroyed knees dominated the ohl at 14 he was literally the best of all time ur just butthurt Coffey anit even close dawg I have a few dman ahead of Coffey even Nicklas Lindstrom is better then Coffey u know nonthing about comparing different eras to each other either cause if u did ud realize if orr played in the 80s he would've got 200 points in a year
@@Sportstouring orr was the best skater in the league during his time to Coffey wasn't Coffey also wasn't the greatest in his own end he played in a higher scoring Era played more games an only beats his points record by like 1 an goal record by 3 an he also had gretzky meanwhile orr turned players into stars turned a mid 20s 20 goal scoring Esposito into a 76 goal guy a record that he held till gretzky cam around an by then everybody an your mama was scoring 70 goals cause it was easier to score u know in the 60s an 70s goalies actually had gaas near 2 an under 2 in 69 70 Tony Esposito had a 15 shoutout season that Era was a lower scoring Era then today an orr still scored 120 points but in the 80s a 2.90 gaa could win ya the vezina are u braindead or just biased
I saw him many time as well. To put it into context, the NHL was a beer league and very few of the players could skate back then. All the best players went to the WHA leaving the NHL with pylons. Heck, I could have been a superstar back then.
@@Sportstouring are you kidding. 16 teams in 1972. Now have 32. It’s watered down that even YOU could play now. Of course you’d have to lace your own skates.
@@fenwaypark1725 Orr came into the league there were 6 teams. Then the NHL went to 16, more than double, and the WHA started in 1971. So, the talent pool was weak because of the NHL expansion and WHA taking the best players. And, no European players or Russian's in the league. Yeah, the NHL was the most watered down league in its history when Orr played. If you bothered to check, the expansion teams and others had to use farmers firemen and steel workers to fill the rosters many times. Orr looked good back then because he played against stiffs like me.
Hall of Famers Gordie Howe, Milt Schmidt, Red Fisher and Scotty Bowman (who, among them, saw all NHL players from the 1930's to the present day) have ALL said Bobby Orr is the best hockey player they ever saw. The next time someone tries to say that anyone other than Orr is the best player ever, please consider and compare the source to those four NHL immortals. Case closed.
Schmidt is not an objective source, given that he was a lifelong Bruin. Gordie and Scotty are "diplomats". Red Fisher "laughed all the way to Cup glory" as his Habs almost-always beat the Bruins----including the three times they met in the Orr & Esposito era... the Habs winning all three!
None of those HOFers could have said Orr was the best they ever saw, right, because none of their answers were authentic or honest? Nonsense. During a LIVE Hockey Night in Canada broadcast in the latter '90's, Red Fisher was asked who was the best player he ever saw. Without hesitation, Fisher said "Why Bobby Orr, of course." Bowman has said the same, repeatedly. I spoke to Howe privately in Memphis (during his 65th birthday tour to raise money for the Howe Foundation), and when I asked him the same question, he had no idea which NHL team I rooted for - "Bobby Orr." Howe replied. As for Milt Schmidt, he saw 'em all from the 1930's up into the 2010's, first as a Cup-winning player and then later as a coach and GM. Schmidt was nothing if not an honest man, and also highly respected within hockey circles. Was his opinion of Orr biased? Absolutely. But with good reason: Schmidt probably saw Orr play more games than anyone else. Lastly, I respect the collective opinions of those four Hall of Famers far more than I do of the opinion of any fan. Yes, those men know more about hockey than most of the rest of us will ever know.
Think of it this way. It is possible that one of these four hall of gamers could have a bias or be mistaken, but it is impossible for me to believe that all four could be wrong about who is the greatest hockey player of all time.
That mite be true. But Scotty Bowman also said the best Hockey player of all time was Gordie Howe. Along with Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky and Phil Esposito. The list goes on… Orr was the most Dominant player. Gretzky has all the stats. Mario and bossy better shooters. Ovie has the best shot. Bobby hull has the hardest… but all around player who played with injuries and his Longevity is the great MR HOCKEY!!!
I listened to Mario speaking about Orr. ( about this) Hard to imagine Orr handing the puck off to those guys...woulda been magic. Bobby never lost control of the puck, the most natural hockey player I've seen.We are blessed to watch any of them.
Bobby Orr was not only a great player, perhaps the best ever - he was so exciting to watch! The only rival that comes to mind in that department was Bobby Hull. I will never forget the kids on my block playing drive-way hockey in the summer or the real thing on our skates, dreaming we were Bobby Orr or Stan Mikita or Tony-O or Bobby Hull, and letting it rip! Even though we were dyed-in-the-wool Blackhawks fans, we always got excited when the Hawks met the Bruins, because you knew that was a chance to see the legendary Bobby Orr. And if they were playing a home game at the old Chicago Stadium, you'd try and convince your dad to take you to see him in person. In fairness to some of the more-recent stars of the game - 99, Super Mario, etc. - I never got to see those guys live, so maybe I am not giving them their due as exciting players, too, but man alive, Orr was some kind of electric. Bobby Hull, too. That guy was a freak of nature, how strong and fast he was. Nothing could bring the faithful out of their seats at the old Stadium better than Hull gathering the puck on his stick in the Chicago end of the ice, and then taking off at full speed on one of his patented end-to-end rushes. Everyone knew about his power move, one arm fending off the defender while he cradled the puck on his stick with the other hand.... but he was so strong and skilled, no one could stop him forever. And his slap-shot was phenomenal. Modern fans scoff at the idea of him breaking 115 mph with his shot (he was once clocked at 118 mph on his slap-shot).... but that's only because they never say the guy. His shot and the puck hitting the glass sounded like a cannon-shot, and forget seeing the puck. Might as well have been a bullet. Goalies were scared for their lives once he started blasting that sucker with a big banana-blade curved stick, and it is hard to blame them. He was an absolute monster. One of the strongest men ever to play the game, but also highly-skilled and determined in his play. And nothing pleased him more than entertaining the fans. Boy, did he ever!
Real hockey players knows whos best... see orr play you would have know donts.... he was a really special player.... he made hockey better and fun to watch... people watch how good he could skate ... and really change the game...he change it for the better.... make it more open....faster.... great play making.. befor orr the game was slow...and d-man really did not get it to the play...... wow what a differant he make...now all 5 players on a line alj get in to play...skate fast.... all becouse of bobby orr.... people shoulf be thanking orr... for make the game a hell lot more gun to watch... hed the man #4 bobby orr......super star...
Mario lemieux was the best points per game Goals per game in the NHL history when he retired in 97...and all this playing with horrible back pain for 6 years + fighting a cancer..no matter how you look at it , Mario Lemieux is the most dominant player Goalers ever faced
@@danieldagenais7945 dude stop making up stuff. wayne had 700 goals his first 10 seasons mario had less than 500 his first 10 bossy had more goals than mario who has all the goal scoring mile stones fasest 500, 600 etc etc its not mario its #99 get your facts straight
Orr is NUMBER one. 8 Norris trophies, 900 points in 650 games, his +/- is almost double Wayne's, Orrs point per game is higher than Wayne's. Wayne could have scored 4000 points and he still wouldn't be as good as orr.
First Name Last Name only scoring points is a big aspect of hockey obviously. BUT a team must have a combination of skill and strength(hitting, checking, puck protection etc). Orr embodied all of these traits. He didn't need an enforcer to protect him, he would either make them look stupid trying to catch him or take them on himself and most of the time would win. Orr is on an entirely different plane than any player in history. His resume shows it.
Shep Proudfoot Also, Gretzkys plus/minus was not half...they're about the same...his ppg was higher than Orrs. 9 Hart's to Orrs 3, 5 Pearson's to 1, 5 Byngs and 10 Rosss to 2. Give me a break pal.
Only a few players could lead the rush at one end and be the 1st man back in his own end. The only bad thing about being Bobby Orr is he never got to see himself play. Great hockey, better teammate and an even better human being. Humble, gracious and kind #4.
Gretzky the guy who was always bashing fighting but had 4-6 goons always on roster who would try to maim anyone who looked at him sideways…. Orr is the greatest of all time.
When Bobby Orr was in Parry sound for the Bobby Orr hockey charity i asked him who the best pure scorer was ( i knew he would not say himself ) He said Lemeiux .
@@Sportstouring What world do you live in? tell me one thing he can do better then Orr..Skating NO...Shooting No...Passing No...Blocking shots No...Fighting No.....Checking No....Plus minus... No... Look up the interview With Orr, Gretzky And Lemeiux and just listen to all three and they all pick Howe. And Gretzky played his whole career healthy and Orr played injured every game and is still compared with the best.Gretzky was the best point getting player but Orr was the best over around player. So if they were to play one on one Orr would kick hes Ass and you know it. Just my opinion
@@Sportstouring you make me laugh...So if he was so good why did he not take one of the shootout shots in the Olympics when Canada lost to the Czecks Orr was MVP in 72 summit series. On one leg...Check out Gretzkys top 5 plus minus, vs Orrs top 5 ....Orr beats him every time... It just shows Gretzky is a defensive liability.
@UC8Zs_lKMo7bXl_xa8mWrnjw I am sorry i hurt your feelings,and Mario was the best offensive forward 2nd would be Bossy, So if OV breaks Gretzkys goal mark does that make him the best...With the virus and a shorten season from a lock out year that is a easy 50 goals he missed out on. Do you think for one moment Getzky would get them points back in the 60-70s you are out of touch. Bobby Baun said it best...The first time Gretzky came down on me he would have me inside out, the next time he would be sitting in the crowd...Filly would of eaten him up, Gainey would of checked him into the ground, Early Boston teams would of beaten the oilers up and spit them out. And lets not forget the Habs of the 70s. Say no more.Bush league what a joke
Wayne, I think your GREAT! Really do. But Bobby Orr is the best complete Hockey Player I ever saw. And on a shot knee! I witnessed Orr in Buffalo, NY in 1972. Gilbert Pueruallt
@ Jeffrey G: That must have been awesome, seeing not only the Big, Bad Bruins and Bobby Orr, but the Sabres and the famed "French Connection" line of Gilbert Perreault (center), Rene Robert (RW) and Rick Martin (LW). I got a chance to see the Sabres play the Blackhawks at the old Chicago Stadium back in the early-mid 1970s, and it was amazing sitting behind the glass down at ice level (Thanks, Dad, for the amazing seats!) as Rick Martin blasted slap-shots during warm-ups. If memory serves, one broke the Plexiglass and the crew had to replace it before the game could get underway. I cheered so hard for the Sabres to beat the Flyers in the SC Final in 1975, but it was not to be. Still remember game three, the now-legendary "fog game" in Buffalo when unexpectedly a heat wave outside and a lack of internal AC caused the ice to be covered in a thick fog. Arena employees skating around with blankets and sheets to try and clear it off! Crazy... Perreault was an absolute marvel, who was unfortunately overshadowed at times by Guy Lafleur and other stars in larger hockey markets, but his peers knew how special he was and today he is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. It is such a shame he never hoisted the cup during his seventeen year career.
best lineup i've ever seen - canada cup power play, 87? lemieux, gretz, messier + coffey and borque. the way those 5 passed the puck on the powerplay, was like watching poetry in motion.
So wrong. Start with the fact that Orr could SKATE circles around ANYONE who has ever played hockey - and when we then add hockey skills to the mix, Orr is THE most best who ever played. And you may know the names of four Hall of Famers who ALL said the same of Orr: Gordie Howe, Scotty Bowman, Milt Jackson and Red Fisher (Montreal Gazette hockey writer, 1953-2010). And yes, I respect their opinions more than yours.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, Orr was tops on defense., Gretzsky top forward (note that no goalies are ever considered). Orr's skating put him above all the rest, he would do a dozen end-to-end rushes routinely during a game (who even does one a game these days?). Still, he had the best plus/minus record. There's never been another like him.
Cherry's coaching direction to his players: "Don't go offside when Orr has the puck". Smart. Cherry and Orr's previous coaches recognized a generational talent.... and just let it happen. That said, I'll bet he told Brad Park and all other defensemen he coached to just dump it in.
Nope. Certainly not Park, a gifted offensive defenseman in his own right, who finished second to Orr six times in Norris Trophy voting. And certainly not young Ray Bourque, who Cherry coached during Bourque's first couple of years.
no. before 99 it was a game of goons that only Canadians and upper NE USA watched. 99 got the rest of NA into it. i wouldn't even put Orr in the top 3. and only Canadians new who Orr was until Gretsky came along
@@geozul6838 George, there are probably a few subjects in which you are very knowledgeable. Hockey obviously not being one of those subjects. As matter of fact, hockey appears to be the subject in which you are least knowledgeable. Now go away.
@@geozul6838 ''Before 99 it was a game of goons'' Wow just goes to show you how you don't know anything. What about Howe, Mikita, Esposito, Beliveau, Richard, Alpps etc? Those aren't goons.
@@bobhoffman5581 Size is important in hockey, and Lemieux was a very good skater. Bobby Orr was the most innovative player in NHL history, but physical attributes can’t be denied. Even by the time Orr retired there were other defensemen that could do what he did statistically by emulating his style of play. There are 2 main reasons why I believe 5 Lemiuex’s are preeminent in this kind of comparison (which is both fun to argue about and to simulate in a game). First is his dominance during the wide open style of hockey played in the NHL at the beginning of his career, as well as in the much more defensive style of hockey played in the NHL during the later years of his career. Second is Mario’s tremendous physical gifts. His size, strength, skating and hands would be remarkable even by today’s standards.
@@barkerm9 I'll give "Super Mario" THIS--a lesser man would have walked away from the game he loves, after his (major) back surgery. Hasn't he had at least TWO such surgeries now? After his first, his level of play was the same as before his operation, if I recall. Phenomenal player; absolutely SO...
Of course Orr is the best, everyone knows that. Wayne didn't fight. Mario is second then the Rocket, then Wayne. I forgot Gordie, he's second, there are just so many great hockey players, we could go on forever.
Rocket Richard was the Gretzky of his era, but no way he deserves to be in the top handful of the greatest players of all time. Too one dimensional in his play. One of the most-influential players of all time? Yes, without question - but not in the league of those others. Jean Béliveau was a much more-complete player than Rocket Richard, anyway. Richard was also an extremely dirty and vindictive player, which does not add luster to his record.
Hard to argue. Either could be #1. I got to admit though and this is coming from a Habs fan. If I could take any player in their prime, I would always take Bobby Orr. Gretzky could score like no one else, but he couldn't do much on the defensive side of things. Orr was at 2 points in his career both the best defense and the best offense.
Gretzky was an amazing player. He routinely finished last on the Oiler's depth chart in terms of strength and conditioning, but it didn't seem to hurt him on the ice. He still went on to accomplish all that he did. The main knock on Gretzky is that the physical element was lacking in his game. He just didn't have the tools - the size and strength - to take over a game physically and impose his will like a Howe, Hull or Orr. He was surprisingly durable and missed comparatively little time away from the game due to injuries during his career, but Gretzky was never noted as a physical player or the prototype of a defensive forward. He seldom fought, whereas Howe, Hull and Orr all took care of business themselves. None of them backed away from a fight. So, rather than call Wayne the greatest player of all time, we ought to describe him as the finest point-producer of all time, and perhaps the finest playmaker of all time. He has more assists alone than anyone else has total points. My choice as the finest goal-scorers would be people like Bobby and Brett Hull, Alex Ovechkin, and Mike Bossy. Super Mario, too.
@ TNO73: Hey Habs fan.... sure enjoyed watching your squad make it to the cup final last go-round. They punched above their weight for sure. And losing to Tampa Bay is no dishonor, because they're a h*ll of a hockey team. Just so deep. There's a difference between being an elite point-producer and being a complete player, as you noted with Gretzky. "88" was peerless on the offensive side of the puck, but treated defensive as an after-thought a lot of the time, as did his teammates on those go-go 1980s Oiler teams. Why win 1-0 when you can win 9-6 instead? Gretzky was adequate defensively, but if my research was correct, he never won a Selke Trophy as best defensive forward. Was he even nominated? Not that I can uncover. The other aspect which lacked was the physical part of the game. Gretzky was surprisingly durable and played twenty seasons, which isn't bad for a guy who consistently finished last in his team's annual fitness/strength combine. He simply didn't have that ability to dominate a game physically, in the manner of someone like Orr or Howe. The corners are the hockey analog to the trenches in football, the place where the dirtiest of dirty work gets done. Back-checking and fore-checking looked like after-thoughts for W.G. He virtually never fought, since he had Marty McSorley to do it for him. Especially later in his career, Wayne's point production dropped, not just because of age, but because teams figured out how to get on his body and shut him down somewhat in that way. Contrast that to guys like Bobby Orr and Gordie Howe. They were not producers of points at the other-worldly level of Gretzky in his prime, but they were vastly-more complete as players. They could play any style of game, from raw skill to grind-it-out to you-name-it. They moved well (Orr in particular was a stellar skater), were physically robust and strong, tough, could fight, and hustled and checked as hard as any rookie trying to make the team out of camp. True two-hundred foot players, they could do anything and everything demanded of the complete hockey player. And both players were great clutch performers and leaders, respected around the league and not just in their home arenas. Although I am unaware of it happening, I am reasonably sure they would have excelled in each other's positions: Gordie Howe - can you imagine him as a defenseman? Scott Stevens? Who's that?? Bobby Orr, as a forward? Whoa....
It goes by eras. To people born at the turn of the 20th century, they thought King Clancy or Howie Morenz were the greatest. To people who grew up watching Orr or Gretzky, they think they are the greatest. It also goes by country. Sergei Fedorov is probably most Russians pick as best player strictly because he could do it all. Play center, wing or defense. I also have no doubt that if Fetisov or the KLM line played together in the NHL back in their prime they would be up their with Gretzky-Kurri-Messier and Coffey in terms of dominance. Players that don't win championships shouldn't be discounted either. Gilbert Perreault, Marcel Dionne and Peter Stastny were significantly better than most of their peers but never played on a team good enough to win a cup. My favourite would be Mario Lemieux for not only what he accomplished but how he did it. He is also the only person to be engraved on the cup as a player and owner. Hard to compete with that
Yes, it goes by eras except for the upper echelon who could have played in ANY era. So when Hall of Famers Gordie Howe, Milt Schmidt, Red Barber and Scotty Bowman (among those four hockey luminaries, they were part of the NHL from the 1930's up through the present day), ALL said that Bobby Orr is the best player they ever saw, I think their collective opinion bears a bit more weight than that of most anyone else, oui? Lastly, with all due respect to Mario, Milt Schmidt has his name on the Cup a total of four times, both as a player and as a General Manager, both of which are more significant roles on Cup-winning teams that of an owner.
@@invertedxxxi I was just pointing out that Orr won the Art Ross Trophy twice which usually goes to a forward. The fact that Orr could get the top defenseman trophy and the top scorer trophy makes him The Greatest!
Bobby Orr is extremely modest, personally, and does not like to draw attention to himself. He doesn't brag or even seem to have an ego. Luckily for hockey fans, his achievements speak for themselves.
Orr changed the game forever for defeseman. He was leading the league in points as a defeseman while still being amazing defensively. He was clutch and could've won more than 2 Stanley Cups. Most Norris Trophy wins in history with 8, two Art Ross, 3 hart Trophies in only 10 seasons. You may look at Gordie Howe's numbers and think ''Why was he so great?'. It was a low scoring era and if you adjust it to our era he would have six 100 points seasons (4 in a row) four 50 goals season including a 65 goals season. But numbers aren't important in the case of Howe, he was simply the most complete hockey player ever. He could hit, he could defend he could win faceoffs, he was such a complete player. There was no selke trophies back then but he would've won a lot of them. He was amazing defensively and is the best 2 way foward in nhl history. 4 Stanley Cups, 6 Hart Trophies, 6 Art Ross Trophies. Gretzky is the greatest of all time considering he played a complete career retiring at 38 years old. Now the scoring in his era was very very high but still, no one was close to him during his era. 15 consecutive 100 points season in 20 seasons. That's insane. Four 200 Points seasons, Nine 50+ goal seasons with a season of 92 goals, 50 goals in 39 games, most goals in nhl history, 9 Hart Trophies, 10 Hart Ross, 2 Conn Smythe, 4 Stanley Cups.
Stats says Gretzky but behavior says Orr. With Orr you got a sense that his humility and sincerity was genuine and with Gretzky it came across as phony and forced. Before you come at me ask yourself, "Would Bobby Orr let his wife take the fall for his illegal gambling?" You know that he wouldn't, he's a righteous man.
i hate to point this out, but being the greatest has to do with expanding the sport, being an ambassador of the sport, and being great at the sport. are ali, jordan, and babe ruth the best ever on skill alone? that's very debatable. what sets them apart is what they did for the sport. they defined the sport for several generations after them. gretzky did this for hockey. orr kept hockey fans coming to the sport, but gretzky brought non-hockey fans into the sport as well as kept the fans coming. that's the difference.
Thomas, if your definition counts, then we not only have to consider Wayne G., but someone like Bobby Hull. Many hockey observers around that time, circa 1968-1975, say that without Bobby Hull, the league's expansion would not have been the success it was, nor would the upstart WHA. Bobby was an enormous draw during that era. If one counts his WHA output as well as his NHL totals, his goal total gets a lot closer to Gretzky, too.
Gretzky is responsible, almost single-handedly, for the success of hockey in non-traditional markets such as California and Arizona. And he has done a very good job as the go-to ambassador for the game since the death of Gordie Howe. Bobby Orr is the single individual most-responsible for the modern game we see today, however. He utterly transformed how hockey was played. A very good case can be made that Robert Marvin Hull is the finest ambassador of the game ever, because without Bobby Hull, the WHA - a league in which Wayne Gretzky played for a short time at the start of his career - would not have survived and been as viable as it was. The league would look very different today without his decision to jump from the Black Hawks to the Jets. And no one in any era was better at making the fans get up out of their seats in excitement at an NHL game. Moreover, if Hull's WHA stats are included in his career totals, his scoring prowess compares with Gretzky and the other very highest scorers in the game. Granted, Hull was nothing like the assist machine Wayne was, but he could definitely put the puck in the net. And Hull sold a lot of hockey tickets for teams around the league, not just the teams for which he played.
Clarke was right. Orr made the rest of the league look bad. There hasn’t been an era in hockey where on guy was so much better than everyone else he played with or against.
Cam is so underrated. I'm glad you mentioned him. His name doesn't come up so often anymore. But in Buffalo, GOD we wish he was a Sabre! The second greatest power forward ever.
I met him when shortly after the hit. I worked at MGH when he came in for the femur scan. He put his hand out first to be shaken, something I will never forget! What might have been....
Statistically Wayne was better. Longer career. More success and a larger body of work in international play. More Stanley Cups. More awards. Bobby was tougher and had a better plus minus. In all fairness, they can’t be compared as Wayne was a forward and Bobby played defence. Both are outstanding people and ambassadors of the game. Both had a huge influence on the evolution of the game.
Bobby Orr, was much more than a defensman. He was the greatest 2 way player of all time. In similar fashion, he and Gretzky knew where everyone was on the ice, and could know where the play would develop. Orr could do it all though. He could stop shots the goalie would miss, play incredible defense and play offense like Gretzky, and he had tremendous speed that was hampered by his knee injuries. I think in total he had around 12 surgeries. SO yes, Wayne had the longer career , but I think when one factors in the context of the situation, Orr was the greatest player. Give Bobby Orr 2 healthy legs, and modern equiptment and I would choose him over anyone.
@@nthdegree1269 yeah and competition playoffs points longevity and being an iron man is part of being the best. Iike Gordy howe. Gretz's idol. I love Orr best defenseman to play the game. Yes he influenced the shift in the game but so did Gretz. But to say orr is best ever player.... theres a few others that would argue that. Gretz, Lemieux ,Howe .Richard. Beliveau. Messier.
Certainly, luck and health play a major role in a player's career. Bobby Orr's injuries were not really his fault, but they significantly shortened his time on the ice. However, if we extrapolate from that and compare the prime of each player, it becomes clear that Orr was something special. I've never seen another player possess Gretzky's vision on the ice-except for Orr. Orr had an almost sixth sense, knowing where everyone was and how the play would unfold. What sets him apart, though, is that he wasn't just an offensive force; his ability to dominate both ends of the rink, defensively and offensively, was unparalleled. He could even stop pucks, playing a complete game that incorporated every aspect of hockey. Although he didn't play as many years as Gretzky or Howe, many would argue that Orr might have been the greatest player to ever lace up skates because of this all-encompassing mastery of the game.
@@nthdegree1269 Sure. I don’t disagree. I know what you mean by luck but it wasn’t luck how Gretzky didn’t get hurt and Orr did. Gretzky was protected but he was also very aware at all times. He knew how to avoid getting hurt. Orr engaged in the rough stuff and didn’t shy away from anything. You don’t dominate the NHL and internationally for 20 years and call that luck. I understand your premise and agree that Orr was head and shoulder better than anyone in his prime years. He was prolific, exciting, revolutionary, tough, fast, and great on both sides of the puck. I guess you could say “better to live one day as a lion than thousands of days as a lamb”.
1 of the reasons I hope to get into heaven is to see the faces off all those who say “Gretzky’s the best” when Orr and Gretzky play a game of 1 on 1 hockey in God’s arena in their primes. The Orr fans will be laughing!!
4orrcountry -I remember watching those late night west coast trip games. The Seals, Kings and Vancouver would sell out their building because fans wanted to see Bobby Orr put on a show....and he usually did! He ragged the puck for about 40 sec. vs the.Seals and then scored a goal so pretty that players from The Seals bench stood up applauding him....NO Bullshit!!
OHH NO somebody has a different opinion/political opinion than I do! How will I ever live now? Now I have to think 100% differently of this person cancel him. Grow up...
@@Sportstouring Crosby was the playoff scoring leader only once. Led the league in Assists only once. Only Two Art Ross.Only two seasons with 40+ goals. I would rank him higher had he not missed so many matches due to Concussions. Another 2-3 100 point seasons
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 In addition to now being a three-time Stanley Cup champion and a two-time Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Crosby is a two-time Hart Trophy winner as the regular-season MVP, a two-time Art Ross Trophy winner as the regular-season scoring leader, and a two-time Rocket Richard Trophy winner as the regular-season leader in goals. The 29-year-old, having just completed his 12th NHL season, has won the Olympic gold medal twice and helped Team Canada win the World Cup of Hockey 2016, where he was voted the best player in the tournament. He also has won the IIHF World Junior Tournament and the World Championship. He may be the most decorated hockey player of all time.
@@SportstouringIt was only in 1998 That NHl players were allowed to play in the Olympics. Gretzky, Lemieux and a few others would have had 3-4 Olympic Golds had it been permitted in 1984. Imagine Gretzky, Lemieux, Coffey, Messier, Yzerman, Raymond Bourque, Brett hull playing together. It would have been a demolition. In his 2nd Olympic Gold Crosby scored only one goal and three Points in the entire 6 game series. The Maurice Richard Award had its debut in the 1998-99 season. Gretzky would have won it 5x had it existed back then.
I'm not a historian, but I always figured Gordie Howe was the best even though he retired when I was 1-year old and never got to see him play so it's just speculation on my part a bit. The thing that astounds me is his consistency over a 20-year period always top 5 in scoring. Orr's playing style made him too injury prone which reduced his effectiveness, Gretzky really went down near the end of his career and was never that great defensively. So yeah, I'll pick Howe.
Gretzky is the greatest point-producer in NHL history, in hockey history, period - but not the finest all-round player. Nor is he what most hockey people think of as the prototype of the ideal NHL player. Wayne made more of his unique attributes than anyone in league history, but that does not change the fact that the defensive and physical sides of his game were lacking or at best average. Gordie Howe or Bobby Orr are the choice for most people. Howe because of his tremendous longevity and consistent excellence at all facets of the game, and Orr because of his almost-supernatural ability to take control of any hockey game he was in. The only real problem with Orr was the relative shortness of his career; he needed better knees, that's for sure. He could do everything you want the ideal hockey player to be able to do. Hall of Fame center Bobby Clarke once said that Orr was the best player in the world on one good leg, and that there needed to be a league higher than the NHL - so Bobby could play in it.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Pretty much in agreement but here's what I'm thinking: * Howe played at a time when checking was tighter and the competition was tougher (although it was mostly Canadians). The year he got 49 goals in 70 games would be prorated to 96 goals in 80s games in 81-82 when Gretzky got 92. I'll say Gretzky's definitely the best passer/playmaker and smartest player but not clear if he would still be the greatest point producer. * Orr could've used better knees but it would have to be supernaturally better to withstand his playing style. Better to play a bit more conservatively. Fewer points per game but maybe more points overall because he would play more games.
@@September2004 - Those are good points. Many hockey fans do not know that Gordie's best per-season point total was in 1968-69, pretty much at the (first) end of his career, his first "retirement" before joining the WHA. That season he had a personal best of 103 points, which was a big point total in those days. Given his toughness and physical/mental gifts for the game, it is hard to put a ceiling on what he might have accomplished as a young man in the game of the 1980s, as the "Great One" #99 was. Orr's style was all-out, full-throttle - he has since said that's the only way he knew to play the game. Yes, he might have changed his style of play some once his knees were damaged, but I think the league itself let too many guys get away with dirty hits on Orr. It is a real shame that the league fathers did not do a better job protecting one of the NHL's best assets, vis-a-vis drawing fans out to see the game at the rink, in person. Lots of hits on Orr that were not penalized, or only lightly-penalized, would today draw a penalty, and also a big fine, a long suspension, or both. I'm not saying that he should have been coddled; Orr would not have stood for it in any case. Just make sure that the guys playing him played within the rules and kept it clean. It's a special kind of jerk that jeopardizes a guy's career and health for the rest of his life, because he gotten beaten on a play. It's bush league and its not right. Sort of like the guys in today's game who intentionally concuss opposing players for the sake of a game. You're gonna leave a guy with permanent brain damage over losing a hockey game,or getting beaten on a play? That's so wrong I can't even describe it. But yeah, what a tragedy that Orr had to cash it in when he did. Especially because I am a Blackhawks fan, and we BH fans only got a brief tantalizing glimpse of what Bobby Orr could do in the Indian Head sweater, at the very tail end of his legendary career. Even on bad knees, he was still a very special player.
Gretzky and Lemieux were 1 dimensional players and great scorers. Orr was a great scorer who excelled in every facet. The truth be told; Bobby Orr is the greatest player in the history of team sports! Orrs'' knees were damaged before he ever played in the NHL. TRANSLATION ... We never saw how great Orr could have been. If Orr played center and lasted as long as Gretzky, he would be the all time leading scorer in NHL history! I'm not a Bruin fan. I'm a sports fan!
In 86-87, Gretzky won the scoring title by 69% ahead of the 2nd scorer (183-108), the widest margin of his career. In 69-70, Orr had 273% more points than the 2nd defenseman (120-44). Your argument may be that early in Orr's career, he was the only truly offensive d-man in the NHL, OK, but later, many more d-men started playing like Orr, one of them was Potvin, the 2nd d-man to score over 100 pts in a season and unanimously agreed to be one of the greatest ever. In 74-75, Orr still outscored him by 78% (135-76). In other words, the argument is that Orr was a defenseman, Gretzky a centreman who played in a higher scoring era, however, Orr outscored other defensemen in his era by a wider margin than Gretzky outscored other forwards in his, for this reason, many of us believe that if he had played a full healthy career, he'd be further ahead of Bourque than Gretzky is ahead of Jagr, that's why we believe he was the best.
Ummm...Hall of Famers Gordie Howe, Milt Scmidt, Red Fisher and Scotty Bowman have ALL said that Orr is the best hockey player they ever saw. The next time anyone tries to say the best player ever is someone other than Orr, consider the source.
The game is better now than its ever been. Based purely on hockey ability and iq, datsyuk beats every player ever one-on-one. No forward has ever had his ability with the puck and don't forget his amazingly high hockey iq. In his prime he was one of the fastest skaters in the league and he still is one of the best on his edges if not the best. He's the best takeaway artist to ever play and because of his iq always knows what you're trying to do or what you could do with the puck. The combination of all those things make him the best player ever. No one could beat him one on one. Personal opinion so grain of salt.
El Cuñado orr show them how to play....he show how it was done... look how many great skaters there are....thankyou bobby orr...made the game better.....#1 orr
It's a toss-up whether they ought to rename the Selke Trophy the "Datsuyk Trophy" or the Patrice Bergeron Award. I've seen Datsuyk play and he was amazing. Absolute magician....
Mr. Hockey himself, the late great Gordie Howe, once said that the greatest tragedy to befell the game of NHL hockey in his life was to see Bobby Orr's career ended prematurely by knee injuries. That's one heck of a gracious and kind thing to say, and quite a tribute to Bobby Orr. They don't come any more highly-regarded than Howe!
It's crazy to think Howe made his debut when orr was 1 year old but ended up playing longer
@@loyaltyabovealllawzco.lilw1232excellent point
What a privilege it was to be a youngster in Massachusetts in the late 60’s-mid 70’s; we’d viewed moves and plays we’d never see again. You didn’t dare miss a game because you might miss another unbelievable feat on the ice by Bobby Orr. He was something to see.
It is a real shame that Orr's games were not preserved for posterity, particularly for his 1969-1970, the greatest single season any player has ever had in the history of the game. Perhaps somewhere in Boston TV archives at least some of these games might exist on videotape. That 1969-1970 season was the season when Orr's skating was at its peak. His game was, as Stephen Brunt wrote "the place were sport and art converge." By the 1971 playoffs, Orr's left knee was starting to bother him (in spite of a career high 139 points), and the knee got worse the following season. After that, Orr had just three more complete seasons left in his career. His speed had notably diminished, but his command of the game, his hockey sense, and his ability with the puck were better than ever.
@@thomasjefferson6 interesting, too bad, I read that the local tv station that covered the bruins simply rerecorded over the vhs tapes or whatever it was back then to save money, so they taped over all those bruin's games
I wonder if any of those TV stations in Massachusetts preserved any of those hockey games from those years. Perhaps some are lying around in a vault some place that could be restored, put into digital format, and made available to the world. Perhaps this is just a dream of mine...
I am a Cambridge guy and I have to agree Orr was the greatest player I had the privilege of watching!
@@thomasjefferson6Years ago I contact the new owners of Bostons old TV 38 (Bruins affiliate) and asked if they had any old games and could they be purchased. Infact they said they still had many of the old games on film but could not sell them without permission of The NHL. I both called and wrote the league office but never got a reply from them. There are some videos of many of Orr’s goals on TH-cam tube which prove the games exist in their entirely but may never will be seen because of The NHL.
Mario Lemieux should be top 3. 1723 points in 915 games. He would've broke records if he was healthy in his prime years.
Jrad666 more like top 1
@@Flashyfinancier Wishful thinking. Gretzky only played ~500 more games than Lemieux, but had over 1,100 more points than him. Lemieux would have had to average just over 2 points per game in those additional 500+ games to beat Gretzky, and that wasn't going to happen from a guy who put up 1.88 points per game, compared to Gretzky's 1.92. Lemieux was amazing, but Gretzky was better. 1,723 points in 915 games. The only way Lemeiux was going to beat Gretzky was to get _more_ than 1,134 points at 1.88 PPG, would be to play an additional 603 games [ at least ] _and_ maintain his 1.88 PPG, which isn't easy to do when you're not in your prime anymore. Even Gretzky went downhill towards the end of his career.
@@RiftZM Gretzky played in a much slower league sir. Lemieux was the boss in the 90's when the game got faster.
@@Flashyfinancier So, according to that argument, Ovechkin and Crosby are better than Lemieux and Gretzky. Btw, Gretzky started in the NHL 6 years earlier than Lemieux. They both played during the same era, so that argument is invalid.
@@Flashyfinancier False.
"They got Eddie Shore, then those two (Orr/Park), now they have Zdeno Chara."
Who's Ray Bourque, the Zamboni driver?
If he is, that's a heck of a guy you've got driving your ice-maker!
Not even the best zamboni driver in nhl history
Chara couldnt lace Bourques slippers
@@R2B2YT shore would rip off your ear ur afraid of hippies
not anymore lol
Orr's incredible plus minus ranking in 74-75 on a declining Bruins team might be the greatest individual accomplishment in the history of hockey.
By 1974-1975, Orr was not healthy. His left knee was bothering him constantly, although this did not greatly affect his performance on the ice. Trained observers could see that the speed of 1969-1970 was no longer there, but by 1974-1975 Orr was a more mature and even more intelligent player. He played all 80 games in this season, set a new record for goal scoring by a defenceman (46), scored 135 points, and won his second Art Ross Trophy, the last time any defenceman has ever done that. He then went into the 1975-1976 season, and had 18 points in his first 10 games. Boston now had both Brad Park and Bobby Orr as defencemen, but not for long. Orr's left knee locked up while he was sitting in a restaurant in November of 1975, prior to boarding a plane flight, and he never played for Boston again. He played only 20 games for Chicago in the 1976-1977 season, following his amazing performance in the first Canada Cup of 1976. Because of his knees (especially the left one) he sat out the entire 1977-1978 season. Attempting to make a comeback in the fall of 1978, he managed to play only six games for Chicago before finally calling it quits, knowing for sure that his left knee could no longer handle playing. Then upon retirement he found out that he had almost no money, courtesy of a man he trusted by the name of Eagleson. This is all very sad, but Bobby Orr was never a man to invite pity or moan about his sorrows. He rose above it all, and showed everyone that his greatness extended well beyond the hockey rink.
a true Ice Capade Star, Orr was. Who needs other players after all ?!!
@@thomasjefferson6 Great comment! I remember vividly watching him in the early 70s, how explosive he was and how he could dominate the game offensively as a defensemen. He totally revolutionized the game! Also, he played in an era where the superstars such as himself and Bobby Hull were not protected by the officials! If only they had the medical treatments available back then to treat his knee properly, what could have been! The fans were robbed of enjoying him for at least another decade!
@@70sfan17 Very true. Those of us who remember Orr at his best, rushing up the ice, will never forget it.
Orr didn't have the longevity to compile the stats that Gretzky had, but he dominated both offence and defence like no player in history.
Orr was the complete package and for that, he is the GOAT.
no. before 99 it was a game of goons that only Canadians and upper NE watched. 99 got the rest of NA into it. i wouldn't even put Orr in the top 3. and only Candians new who Orr was until Gretsky came along
He was washed up by 1975. Meanwhile Gordie scored almost 50 points as a 52 year old in 1980. Orr's body wasn't built to last. Don't kid yourself. He's not even top 20.
@@rockinyouallnight Have you watched the hits he took on his left knee. He was slew footed so often during his career he needed 11 surgeries on his left knee. He could take hits, but knee on knee contact has ruined many careers. The fact he could continue even after several slew foots (basically playing on one leg) is amazing so no he is top 5 all time. He ranks 2nd in +/- in NHL history and did it in basically 10 seasons.
Orr is the only defenseman to win the scoring title and he did that twice.
Gretzky tied for the scoring title his first year in the NHL on an Oilers team at that time that had only minimal talent around him.
Who was better? It doesn't really matter when the question cannot be answered.
@@rockinyouallnight obviously, you never saw Orr play.
I watched Orr in the 1960’s and 1970’s. He was incredible.
I saw him in 1976. He couldn't even skate.
@@rockinyouallnight Even after the Bruins traded Orr, he was still putting up decent numbers for a player with 2 badly damaged knees.
Ron is usually pretty sharp...How did he miss Ray Bourque when he listed Boston's great D men?
Truly excellent point! It just shows that, like Orr, Cherry was NOT the best.
@@34Packardphaeton that was Ron, smart boy.
Gretzsky was not big so his playmaking skills were learned. { He watched Bobby Clarke.} Orr was simply a Jordanesque type of athlete that transcended the game. He was stronger than Gretzsky and had this natural ability that was ultimately complimented by his learned skill. Gretsky was a strategist while Orr was creative genious.
It's testament to Orr's greatness that despite playing in the highest scoring era in history,and despite playing in the same team as Gretzky Kurri and Messier Paul Coffey never exceeded Orr's record for most points scored in a season by a defenceman
... that excuse that Orr was a defenseman is dreadfully tired... and just that: an excuse. Give it up!!!
Bobby Orr transformed the game in a way that no one before or since has done, not Gordie Howe, not Bobby Hull, nor Gretzky nor Lemieux. He was so good that the other players around him seemed to be playing at half-speed. Gordie Howe once said that the greatest tragedy to befell the NHL during his lifetime was seeing Orr's career cut-short by knee injuries. Considering the source, that is some high praise and a very fitting tribute to Mr. Orr. A measure of the esteem in which his fellow players held him, even the legends like Gordie.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Bobby Orr isn't fast compare to the players of the last 25 years
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 - How do you know? They've never met in head-to-head competition. And if you put present-day players in equipment/skates from fifty years ago, how do you think they would do? Conversely, imagine how fast Orr could be using modern-day equipment. I'm not stating categorically that Orr would be the fastest; only that he was an elite athlete, the kind who thrives in any era. Historically-speaking, it is a mistake always to assume that just because something is newer, it must be better. The opposite also applies, of course.
Orr's speed alone wasn't what made him special, it was his ability to execute while at full throttle that set him apart. Gordie Howe could do everything, but not at full speed; Bobby Hull was extremely fast, but couldn't do everything at speed. Orr combined both attributes into one. The Connor McDavid of his time, if you will.
Speaking of him...seeing Conner McDavid skate, I don't think anyone is beating that guy anytime soon in terms of speed and the ability to execute. Impressive.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Of course Orr would be a faster skater today. But in the 70s he was one of the fastest.
What player... in any sport... was identified as a potential all star at 12 years old? Bobby was and then signed to a professional contract at 14 years old. He is the greatest played ever and always will be...
In spite of the clothes he now wears, Don Cherry is the GREATEST coach in Boston Bruins history.
.... which is saying much... given that Harry Sinden was never impressive.
I would've been the greatest coach in Bruins history if I had Esposito, Orr & Cheevers on my team.
@@rockinyouallnight But he didn't always have Espo & Orr. Espo for 1 year(Best TRADE EVER). Orr for 2(Barely).
A defense with a hundred points in that era. Unbelievable
Dennis Potvin, hold my beer.
@@iBMcFly Erik K last year...on a team not even trying (22 wins), and 25th in the league in GF. Plus, the next-highest point getter had just 67.
Orr was by far an all around better player than Gretzky. Orr could literally do whatever he wanted with the puck. If he wanted to skate the puck all the way into the other teams net he could. Whenever he wanted practically. There's never been a player like that at least not to Orr's extent. Keep in mind, Orr was a defenceman too. He was literally unstoppable. Gretzky put up insane numbers to be fair but Gretzky was a gifted goal scorer. Orr was gifted in pretty much every aspect and revolutionized hockey. If we're talking goal scoring IQ, yea Gretzky knew how to get the puck in the net better than anyone. But if we're talking as an overall hockey player? I say Orr. Easily.
You vastly undersell Gretzky by calling him a goal scorer. Scoring wasn’t even his greatest talent. He was a puck handler and a playmaker and a clutch performer. But I agree he wasn’t a defender nor a physical player.
He is getting crazier each year he grows older..
Vito Silva that's kind of how it works
more racist as well
vinyl79 I think Mr Silva was just having some fun with it, lighten up Hillary voter..
euginate13 I must of missed that part. You better go out and protest though.... quick.... GO!!!!
hillary voter lol
Orr and Gretzky played different positions. They're both the best ever at their position.
Paul Coffey could out skate, out play, and outscore Orr.
@@Sportstouring your a keyboard warrior. You’ve never seen Orr. Your still in school on Wikipedia
@@fenwaypark1725 yeah, okay.
@@Sportstouring ummmm what lolllll u hate orr don't u that's just stupid orr didn't play in a league where a team could win a cup with a goalie like Grant fuhr an his 3.94 gaa orr made the bruins better he didn't have no superstar support he also could play defense really well he dominated the league was the best dman every year he played more then 20 games expect his rookie year he was runner up for the Norris 8 straight Norris trophies he scored 120 points in 69 70 second was Phil Esposito at 99 third was Stan mikta at 86 an the rest had under 75 an orr was just as good in the dzone as the ozone an he wasn't afraid to block shots or lay the body an he played on destroyed knees dominated the ohl at 14 he was literally the best of all time ur just butthurt Coffey anit even close dawg I have a few dman ahead of Coffey even Nicklas Lindstrom is better then Coffey u know nonthing about comparing different eras to each other either cause if u did ud realize if orr played in the 80s he would've got 200 points in a year
@@Sportstouring orr was the best skater in the league during his time to Coffey wasn't Coffey also wasn't the greatest in his own end he played in a higher scoring Era played more games an only beats his points record by like 1 an goal record by 3 an he also had gretzky meanwhile orr turned players into stars turned a mid 20s 20 goal scoring Esposito into a 76 goal guy a record that he held till gretzky cam around an by then everybody an your mama was scoring 70 goals cause it was easier to score u know in the 60s an 70s goalies actually had gaas near 2 an under 2 in 69 70 Tony Esposito had a 15 shoutout season that Era was a lower scoring Era then today an orr still scored 120 points but in the 80s a 2.90 gaa could win ya the vezina are u braindead or just biased
I got to see Orr play at the old Chicago Stadium a few times. In my humble opinion he was the best. Nobody could skate with him. He was amazing!
Seen Bobby live a few times, damn damn damn. Those were the days my friends.
The most amazing thing I ever saw in all my years of following hockey was watching Bobby Orr play in person.
Wasn't he something?
I saw him many time as well. To put it into context, the NHL was a beer league and very few of the players could skate back then. All the best players went to the WHA leaving the NHL with pylons. Heck, I could have been a superstar back then.
@@Sportstouring are you kidding. 16 teams in 1972. Now have 32. It’s watered down that even YOU could play now. Of course you’d have to lace your own skates.
@@fenwaypark1725 Orr came into the league there were 6 teams. Then the NHL went to 16, more than double, and the WHA started in 1971. So, the talent pool was weak because of the NHL expansion and WHA taking the best players. And, no European players or Russian's in the league.
Yeah, the NHL was the most watered down league in its history when Orr played. If you bothered to check, the expansion teams and others had to use farmers firemen and steel workers to fill the rosters many times.
Orr looked good back then because he played against stiffs like me.
Hall of Famers Gordie Howe, Milt Schmidt, Red Fisher and Scotty Bowman (who, among them, saw all NHL players from the 1930's to the present day) have ALL said Bobby Orr is the best hockey player they ever saw. The next time someone tries to say that anyone other than Orr is the best player ever, please consider and compare the source to those four NHL immortals. Case closed.
Schmidt is not an objective source, given that he was a lifelong Bruin. Gordie and Scotty are "diplomats". Red Fisher "laughed all the way to Cup glory" as his Habs almost-always beat the Bruins----including the three times they met in the Orr & Esposito era... the Habs winning all three!
None of those HOFers could have said Orr was the best they ever saw, right, because none of their answers were authentic or honest? Nonsense. During a LIVE Hockey Night in Canada broadcast in the latter '90's, Red Fisher was asked who was the best player he ever saw. Without hesitation, Fisher said "Why Bobby Orr, of course." Bowman has said the same, repeatedly. I spoke to Howe privately in Memphis (during his 65th birthday tour to raise money for the Howe Foundation), and when I asked him the same question, he had no idea which NHL team I rooted for - "Bobby Orr." Howe replied. As for Milt Schmidt, he saw 'em all from the 1930's up into the 2010's, first as a Cup-winning player and then later as a coach and GM. Schmidt was nothing if not an honest man, and also highly respected within hockey circles. Was his opinion of Orr biased? Absolutely. But with good reason: Schmidt probably saw Orr play more games than anyone else.
Lastly, I respect the collective opinions of those four Hall of Famers far more than I do of the opinion of any fan. Yes, those men know more about hockey than most of the rest of us will ever know.
@@4orrcountry But they might be biased towards Orr because he's closer to their age than Mario or Wayne. Possibly. Don't get me wrong, I love #4.
Think of it this way. It is possible that one of these four hall of gamers could have a bias or be mistaken, but it is impossible for me to believe that all four could be wrong about who is the greatest hockey player of all time.
That mite be true. But Scotty Bowman also said the best Hockey player of all time was Gordie Howe. Along with Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky and Phil Esposito. The list goes on… Orr was the most Dominant player. Gretzky has all the stats. Mario and bossy better shooters. Ovie has the best shot. Bobby hull has the hardest… but all around player who played with injuries and his Longevity is the great MR HOCKEY!!!
I listened to Mario speaking about Orr. ( about this) Hard to imagine Orr handing the puck off to those guys...woulda been magic.
Bobby never lost control of the puck, the most natural hockey player I've seen.We are blessed to watch any of them.
Bobby Orr was not only a great player, perhaps the best ever - he was so exciting to watch! The only rival that comes to mind in that department was Bobby Hull. I will never forget the kids on my block playing drive-way hockey in the summer or the real thing on our skates, dreaming we were Bobby Orr or Stan Mikita or Tony-O or Bobby Hull, and letting it rip! Even though we were dyed-in-the-wool Blackhawks fans, we always got excited when the Hawks met the Bruins, because you knew that was a chance to see the legendary Bobby Orr. And if they were playing a home game at the old Chicago Stadium, you'd try and convince your dad to take you to see him in person.
In fairness to some of the more-recent stars of the game - 99, Super Mario, etc. - I never got to see those guys live, so maybe I am not giving them their due as exciting players, too, but man alive, Orr was some kind of electric.
Bobby Hull, too. That guy was a freak of nature, how strong and fast he was. Nothing could bring the faithful out of their seats at the old Stadium better than Hull gathering the puck on his stick in the Chicago end of the ice, and then taking off at full speed on one of his patented end-to-end rushes. Everyone knew about his power move, one arm fending off the defender while he cradled the puck on his stick with the other hand.... but he was so strong and skilled, no one could stop him forever.
And his slap-shot was phenomenal. Modern fans scoff at the idea of him breaking 115 mph with his shot (he was once clocked at 118 mph on his slap-shot).... but that's only because they never say the guy. His shot and the puck hitting the glass sounded like a cannon-shot, and forget seeing the puck. Might as well have been a bullet. Goalies were scared for their lives once he started blasting that sucker with a big banana-blade curved stick, and it is hard to blame them. He was an absolute monster. One of the strongest men ever to play the game, but also highly-skilled and determined in his play. And nothing pleased him more than entertaining the fans. Boy, did he ever!
Real hockey players knows whos best... see orr play you would have know donts.... he was a really special player.... he made hockey better and fun to watch... people watch how good he could skate ... and really change the game...he change it for the better.... make it more open....faster.... great play making.. befor orr the game was slow...and d-man really did not get it to the play...... wow what a differant he make...now all 5 players on a line alj get in to play...skate fast.... all becouse of bobby orr.... people shoulf be thanking orr... for make the game a hell lot more gun to watch... hed the man #4 bobby orr......super star...
Do real hockey players also use "know" to mean "no" or "donts" to mean "doubts" pull your finger out of your ass, gretz is the great one.
well said sir
Gretzky and Orr dominated an era when only canadians were in the NHL. Mario Lemieux dominated an era when the best players in the world were playing
Gretzy is the highest scoring player of the 90s as well
Mario lemieux was the best points per game
Goals per game in the NHL history when he retired in 97...and all this playing with horrible back pain for 6 years + fighting a cancer..no matter how you look at it , Mario Lemieux is the most dominant player Goalers ever faced
@@treygray2817 yes, but in the 90s, Oates was a pretty close 2nd and Lemieux beat him by far in ppg.
@@danieldagenais7945 dude stop making up stuff. wayne had 700 goals his first 10 seasons mario had less than 500 his first 10 bossy had more goals than mario who has all the goal scoring mile stones fasest 500, 600 etc etc its not mario its #99 get your facts straight
You've got a point
Bobby orr is the best
Wow Don’s memory is so impressive! Love the yellow & black checkered blazer⬛️🟨⬛️🟨⬛️🟨
Pretty stupid to compare a forward to a defenseman. They were both the GOAT at their respective positions.
L-Rod your right...its hard...
Orr is NUMBER one. 8 Norris trophies, 900 points in 650 games, his +/- is almost double Wayne's, Orrs point per game is higher than Wayne's. Wayne could have scored 4000 points and he still wouldn't be as good as orr.
Shep Proudfoot lmao 4,000 points would make him a lot better
First Name Last Name only scoring points is a big aspect of hockey obviously. BUT a team must have a combination of skill and strength(hitting, checking, puck protection etc). Orr embodied all of these traits. He didn't need an enforcer to protect him, he would either make them look stupid trying to catch him or take them on himself and most of the time would win. Orr is on an entirely different plane than any player in history. His resume shows it.
Shep Proudfoot I believe 4 cups is better than 2.
Shep Proudfoot Also, Gretzkys plus/minus was not half...they're about the same...his ppg was higher than Orrs. 9 Hart's to Orrs 3, 5 Pearson's to 1, 5 Byngs and 10 Rosss to 2. Give me a break pal.
Shep Proudfoot so my question is, what are you drinking and where did you find your stats?
as an all arounder, Orr wins. as a goal scorer, Gretzky wins.
They're both fantastic players.
People, of course he pick bobby Orr. He loves Boston
Only a few players could lead the rush at one end and be the 1st man back in his own end. The only bad thing about being Bobby Orr is he never got to see himself play. Great hockey, better teammate and an even better human being. Humble, gracious and kind #4.
Everyone knows Orr is the best - don cherry to himself while hitting the blunt.
Gretzky the guy who was always bashing fighting but had 4-6 goons always on roster who would try to maim anyone who looked at him sideways….
Orr is the greatest of all time.
He's right. Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player of all time. Changed the game.
Bobby Orr is the G.O.A.T. No discussion.
.... that's 'cause you're afraid of the TRUTH.... that Orr was NOT the best evah.
not even in top 3
Absolutely Bobby Orr all the way
Parry Sound, Ontario. The home of the greatest hockey player.
When Bobby Orr was in Parry sound for the Bobby Orr hockey charity i asked him who the best pure scorer was ( i knew he would not say himself ) He said Lemeiux .
@@Sportstouring What world do you live in? tell me one thing he can do better then Orr..Skating NO...Shooting No...Passing No...Blocking shots No...Fighting No.....Checking No....Plus minus... No... Look up the interview With Orr, Gretzky And Lemeiux and just listen to all three and they all pick Howe. And Gretzky played his whole career healthy and Orr played injured every game and is still compared with the best.Gretzky was the best point getting player but Orr was the best over around player. So if they were to play one on one Orr would kick hes Ass and you know it. Just my opinion
@@Sportstouring you make me laugh...So if he was so good why did he not take one of the shootout shots in the Olympics when Canada lost to the Czecks Orr was MVP in 72 summit series. On one leg...Check out Gretzkys top 5 plus minus, vs Orrs top 5 ....Orr beats him every time... It just shows Gretzky is a defensive liability.
@UC8Zs_lKMo7bXl_xa8mWrnjw I am sorry i hurt your feelings,and Mario was the best offensive forward 2nd would be Bossy, So if OV breaks Gretzkys goal mark does that make him the best...With the virus and a shorten season from a lock out year that is a easy 50 goals he missed out on. Do you think for one moment Getzky would get them points back in the 60-70s you are out of touch. Bobby Baun said it best...The first time Gretzky came down on me he would have me inside out, the next time he would be sitting in the crowd...Filly would of eaten him up, Gainey would of checked him into the ground, Early Boston teams would of beaten the oilers up and spit them out. And lets not forget the Habs of the 70s. Say no more.Bush league what a joke
@@russellrosebrugh5830 Orr did not play in the 72 Summit series. You're thinking of 76.
sorry 76@@tomtalley2192
My dad told me Bobby Orr was the sandy Koufax of hockey
Wayne, I think your GREAT! Really do. But Bobby Orr is the best complete Hockey Player I ever saw. And on a shot knee! I witnessed Orr in Buffalo, NY in 1972. Gilbert Pueruallt
agree but 2000 points in 11 seasons is hard to argue
@@kidpoker9408 It sure is. #99 was the master! Keeping in mind.... Orr was not a 100% for years.
@ Jeffrey G: That must have been awesome, seeing not only the Big, Bad Bruins and Bobby Orr, but the Sabres and the famed "French Connection" line of Gilbert Perreault (center), Rene Robert (RW) and Rick Martin (LW). I got a chance to see the Sabres play the Blackhawks at the old Chicago Stadium back in the early-mid 1970s, and it was amazing sitting behind the glass down at ice level (Thanks, Dad, for the amazing seats!) as Rick Martin blasted slap-shots during warm-ups. If memory serves, one broke the Plexiglass and the crew had to replace it before the game could get underway. I cheered so hard for the Sabres to beat the Flyers in the SC Final in 1975, but it was not to be. Still remember game three, the now-legendary "fog game" in Buffalo when unexpectedly a heat wave outside and a lack of internal AC caused the ice to be covered in a thick fog. Arena employees skating around with blankets and sheets to try and clear it off! Crazy... Perreault was an absolute marvel, who was unfortunately overshadowed at times by Guy Lafleur and other stars in larger hockey markets, but his peers knew how special he was and today he is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. It is such a shame he never hoisted the cup during his seventeen year career.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 1970's awesome hockey
best lineup i've ever seen - canada cup power play, 87? lemieux, gretz, messier + coffey and borque. the way those 5 passed the puck on the powerplay, was like watching poetry in motion.
I mean if you're talking about pure talent it's obviously lemiux but in terms of greatness its Gretzky
Cole Porter and the best orr....
So wrong. Start with the fact that Orr could SKATE circles around ANYONE who has ever played hockey - and when we then add hockey skills to the mix, Orr is THE most best who ever played. And you may know the names of four Hall of Famers who ALL said the same of Orr: Gordie Howe, Scotty Bowman, Milt Jackson and Red Fisher (Montreal Gazette hockey writer, 1953-2010). And yes, I respect their opinions more than yours.
Wayne Gretzky did say Bobby Orr and Gordie are the greatest of all-time
99 would say i was a better passer than him
Bobby said the same thing about Wayne and Gordie, putting Gordie first of all.
Bobby Orr is better than Gretzky. EVERYONE knows that.
Longetivity is why Bobby Orr can't be the GOAT.
glaxko2 - Look what Gretzky accomplished in the same 10 year span that Bobby played. Let’s start with the 9 Hart Trophies....
glaxko2 ik
Sportsnet only uploaded this because they know it's going to get attention, but only for the wrong reasons.
It's like comparing apples and oranges, Orr was tops on defense., Gretzsky top forward (note that no goalies are ever considered). Orr's skating put him above all the rest, he would do a dozen end-to-end rushes routinely during a game (who even does one a game these days?). Still, he had the best plus/minus record. There's never been another like him.
Cherry's coaching direction to his players: "Don't go offside when Orr has the puck". Smart. Cherry and Orr's previous coaches recognized a generational talent.... and just let it happen. That said, I'll bet he told Brad Park and all other defensemen he coached to just dump it in.
Nope. Certainly not Park, a gifted offensive defenseman in his own right, who finished second to Orr six times in Norris Trophy voting. And certainly not young Ray Bourque, who Cherry coached during Bourque's first couple of years.
He is right, and people who disagree just don't have the experience that don does. If he says orr was the best; he's right.
Sign Field why? because he's old lol
There can be no bias here..
Because Cherry knows more about hockey than you ever will.
Bobby Orr changed the game of hockey. Simply the best.
no. before 99 it was a game of goons that only Canadians and upper NE USA watched. 99 got the rest of NA into it. i wouldn't even put Orr in the top 3. and only Canadians new who Orr was until Gretsky came along
@@geozul6838 George, there are probably a few subjects in which you are very knowledgeable. Hockey obviously not being one of those subjects. As matter of fact, hockey appears to be the subject in which you are least knowledgeable. Now go away.
@@geozul6838 ''Before 99 it was a game of goons'' Wow just goes to show you how you don't know anything. What about Howe, Mikita, Esposito, Beliveau, Richard, Alpps etc? Those aren't goons.
5 Orr's against 5 Gretzky's......Orr's win 100 out of 100 times
I wouldn't bet against it. FACT... lol
5 Lemieux’s don’t lose to anybody.
@@barkerm9 Spoken as a person who must have no knowledge of a guy who wore #4... lol
@@bobhoffman5581 Size is important in hockey, and Lemieux was a very good skater. Bobby Orr was the most innovative player in NHL history, but physical attributes can’t be denied. Even by the time Orr retired there were other defensemen that could do what he did statistically by emulating his style of play. There are 2 main reasons why I believe 5 Lemiuex’s are preeminent in this kind of comparison (which is both fun to argue about and to simulate in a game). First is his dominance during the wide open style of hockey played in the NHL at the beginning of his career, as well as in the much more defensive style of hockey played in the NHL during the later years of his career. Second is Mario’s tremendous physical gifts. His size, strength, skating and hands would be remarkable even by today’s standards.
@@barkerm9 I'll give "Super Mario" THIS--a lesser man would have walked away from the game he loves, after his (major) back surgery. Hasn't he had at least TWO such surgeries now? After his first, his level of play was the same as before his operation, if I recall. Phenomenal player; absolutely SO...
Of course Orr is the best, everyone knows that. Wayne didn't fight. Mario is second then the Rocket, then Wayne. I forgot Gordie, he's second, there are just so many great hockey players, we could go on forever.
Bobby HULL . . .
Rocket Richard was the Gretzky of his era, but no way he deserves to be in the top handful of the greatest players of all time. Too one dimensional in his play. One of the most-influential players of all time? Yes, without question - but not in the league of those others. Jean Béliveau was a much more-complete player than Rocket Richard, anyway. Richard was also an extremely dirty and vindictive player, which does not add luster to his record.
Hard to argue. Either could be #1. I got to admit though and this is coming from a Habs fan. If I could take any player in their prime, I would always take Bobby Orr. Gretzky could score like no one else, but he couldn't do much on the defensive side of things. Orr was at 2 points in his career both the best defense and the best offense.
Gretzky was an amazing player. He routinely finished last on the Oiler's depth chart in terms of strength and conditioning, but it didn't seem to hurt him on the ice. He still went on to accomplish all that he did. The main knock on Gretzky is that the physical element was lacking in his game. He just didn't have the tools - the size and strength - to take over a game physically and impose his will like a Howe, Hull or Orr. He was surprisingly durable and missed comparatively little time away from the game due to injuries during his career, but Gretzky was never noted as a physical player or the prototype of a defensive forward. He seldom fought, whereas Howe, Hull and Orr all took care of business themselves. None of them backed away from a fight. So, rather than call Wayne the greatest player of all time, we ought to describe him as the finest point-producer of all time, and perhaps the finest playmaker of all time. He has more assists alone than anyone else has total points. My choice as the finest goal-scorers would be people like Bobby and Brett Hull, Alex Ovechkin, and Mike Bossy. Super Mario, too.
@ TNO73: Hey Habs fan.... sure enjoyed watching your squad make it to the cup final last go-round. They punched above their weight for sure. And losing to Tampa Bay is no dishonor, because they're a h*ll of a hockey team. Just so deep.
There's a difference between being an elite point-producer and being a complete player, as you noted with Gretzky. "88" was peerless on the offensive side of the puck, but treated defensive as an after-thought a lot of the time, as did his teammates on those go-go 1980s Oiler teams. Why win 1-0 when you can win 9-6 instead?
Gretzky was adequate defensively, but if my research was correct, he never won a Selke Trophy as best defensive forward. Was he even nominated? Not that I can uncover.
The other aspect which lacked was the physical part of the game. Gretzky was surprisingly durable and played twenty seasons, which isn't bad for a guy who consistently finished last in his team's annual fitness/strength combine. He simply didn't have that ability to dominate a game physically, in the manner of someone like Orr or Howe. The corners are the hockey analog to the trenches in football, the place where the dirtiest of dirty work gets done. Back-checking and fore-checking looked like after-thoughts for W.G. He virtually never fought, since he had Marty McSorley to do it for him. Especially later in his career, Wayne's point production dropped, not just because of age, but because teams figured out how to get on his body and shut him down somewhat in that way.
Contrast that to guys like Bobby Orr and Gordie Howe. They were not producers of points at the other-worldly level of Gretzky in his prime, but they were vastly-more complete as players. They could play any style of game, from raw skill to grind-it-out to you-name-it. They moved well (Orr in particular was a stellar skater), were physically robust and strong, tough, could fight, and hustled and checked as hard as any rookie trying to make the team out of camp. True two-hundred foot players, they could do anything and everything demanded of the complete hockey player. And both players were great clutch performers and leaders, respected around the league and not just in their home arenas. Although I am unaware of it happening, I am reasonably sure they would have excelled in each other's positions: Gordie Howe - can you imagine him as a defenseman? Scott Stevens? Who's that?? Bobby Orr, as a forward? Whoa....
Everyone saying cherry's dumb yet he's smarter then any of you will ever be.
It goes by eras. To people born at the turn of the 20th century, they thought King Clancy or Howie Morenz were the greatest. To people who grew up watching Orr or Gretzky, they think they are the greatest. It also goes by country. Sergei Fedorov is probably most Russians pick as best player strictly because he could do it all. Play center, wing or defense. I also have no doubt that if Fetisov or the KLM line played together in the NHL back in their prime they would be up their with Gretzky-Kurri-Messier and Coffey in terms of dominance. Players that don't win championships shouldn't be discounted either. Gilbert Perreault, Marcel Dionne and Peter Stastny were significantly better than most of their peers but never played on a team good enough to win a cup. My favourite would be Mario Lemieux for not only what he accomplished but how he did it. He is also the only person to be engraved on the cup as a player and owner. Hard to compete with that
Yes, it goes by eras except for the upper echelon who could have played in ANY era. So when Hall of Famers Gordie Howe, Milt Schmidt, Red Barber and Scotty Bowman (among those four hockey luminaries, they were part of the NHL from the 1930's up through the present day), ALL said that Bobby Orr is the best player they ever saw, I think their collective opinion bears a bit more weight than that of most anyone else, oui? Lastly, with all due respect to Mario, Milt Schmidt has his name on the Cup a total of four times, both as a player and as a General Manager, both of which are more significant roles on Cup-winning teams that of an owner.
Seen them all. My pics. Orr class of his own. Lemieux imagine if he was healthy. Gretzky slick.
He’s absolutely right about Bobby Orr. How many Norris trophies did Wayne win?
Is this a serious question? you realize the Norris trophy only goes to a DEFENSEMAN right? Wayne was a center.
@@invertedxxxi I was just pointing out that Orr won the Art Ross Trophy twice which usually goes to a forward. The fact that Orr could get the top defenseman trophy and the top scorer trophy makes him The Greatest!
only thing cherry was right about,bobby orr....and dont go off side wen orr has the puck...
Even Bobby Orr said himself that he thought Mario Lemieux was better than him
Flashyfinancier I don’t think any of them would say they were better than another
orr didn't want lemieux to ram into his knee at 100 miles an hour
They are not like these NBA blacks who say '' I am the greatest ever'' LOL
Bobby Orr is extremely modest, personally, and does not like to draw attention to himself. He doesn't brag or even seem to have an ego. Luckily for hockey fans, his achievements speak for themselves.
@@rudy1999 Black people and White people have completely different views on modesty.
5 bobby orr's would have betten 5 of anybody else anywhere
Orr was a defenseman. He prevented goals and scored them. Wayne only scored goals
Seamus Belisle Gretzky had alot more assists than goals.
Eeli Luhtanen you missed the point
@@shebos Eli: So did Orr, but that's beside Seamus' point which you definitely missed!
Number 4 Bobby Orr nuff said
1- Bobby Orr
2- Gordie Howe
3- Wayne Gretzky
4- Mario Lemieux
5- Maurice Richard
Orr changed the game forever for defeseman. He was leading the league in points as a defeseman while still being amazing defensively. He was clutch and could've won more than 2 Stanley Cups. Most Norris Trophy wins in history with 8, two Art Ross, 3 hart Trophies in only 10 seasons.
You may look at Gordie Howe's numbers and think ''Why was he so great?'. It was a low scoring era and if you adjust it to our era he would have six 100 points seasons (4 in a row) four 50 goals season including a 65 goals season. But numbers aren't important in the case of Howe, he was simply the most complete hockey player ever. He could hit, he could defend he could win faceoffs, he was such a complete player. There was no selke trophies back then but he would've won a lot of them. He was amazing defensively and is the best 2 way foward in nhl history. 4 Stanley Cups, 6 Hart Trophies, 6 Art Ross Trophies.
Gretzky is the greatest of all time considering he played a complete career retiring at 38 years old. Now the scoring in his era was very very high but still, no one was close to him during his era. 15 consecutive 100 points season in 20 seasons. That's insane. Four 200 Points seasons, Nine 50+ goal seasons with a season of 92 goals, 50 goals in 39 games, most goals in nhl history, 9 Hart Trophies, 10 Hart Ross, 2 Conn Smythe, 4 Stanley Cups.
Fantastic player & I'm totally biased when it comes to the best player I've seen on the ice, it's Bobby Orr.
Orr is number one in all time defenceman, Gretz is greatest of all time.
.... There is ALWAYS offered that crummy excuse that Orr was a "defenseman". How come Orr's Bruins never beat Montreal in the playoffs??
@@34Packardphaeton Maybe it’s because it’s a team sport and Montreal had a better team.
Don knew Orr and Park would be O P 👌
Why did they cut the video short??
Mario number 1, orr 2, Wayne 3
1) Orr 2) Lemieux 3) Gretzky 4) Howe
1) Orr 2) Howe 3) Lemieux 4) Gretzky - or you could flip Super Mario and 88.
Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe
That’s my list
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Claude or Mario?
@@FAITHandLOGIC Claude or Mario?
Stats says Gretzky but behavior says Orr. With Orr you got a sense that his humility and sincerity was genuine and with Gretzky it came across as phony and forced.
Before you come at me ask yourself, "Would Bobby Orr let his wife take the fall for his illegal gambling?" You know that he wouldn't, he's a righteous man.
i hate to point this out, but being the greatest has to do with expanding the sport, being an ambassador of the sport, and being great at the sport.
are ali, jordan, and babe ruth the best ever on skill alone? that's very debatable. what sets them apart is what they did for the sport. they defined the sport for several generations after them. gretzky did this for hockey. orr kept hockey fans coming to the sport, but gretzky brought non-hockey fans into the sport as well as kept the fans coming. that's the difference.
Thomas, if your definition counts, then we not only have to consider Wayne G., but someone like Bobby Hull. Many hockey observers around that time, circa 1968-1975, say that without Bobby Hull, the league's expansion would not have been the success it was, nor would the upstart WHA. Bobby was an enormous draw during that era. If one counts his WHA output as well as his NHL totals, his goal total gets a lot closer to Gretzky, too.
Gretzky is responsible, almost single-handedly, for the success of hockey in non-traditional markets such as California and Arizona. And he has done a very good job as the go-to ambassador for the game since the death of Gordie Howe. Bobby Orr is the single individual most-responsible for the modern game we see today, however. He utterly transformed how hockey was played. A very good case can be made that Robert Marvin Hull is the finest ambassador of the game ever, because without Bobby Hull, the WHA - a league in which Wayne Gretzky played for a short time at the start of his career - would not have survived and been as viable as it was. The league would look very different today without his decision to jump from the Black Hawks to the Jets. And no one in any era was better at making the fans get up out of their seats in excitement at an NHL game. Moreover, if Hull's WHA stats are included in his career totals, his scoring prowess compares with Gretzky and the other very highest scorers in the game. Granted, Hull was nothing like the assist machine Wayne was, but he could definitely put the puck in the net. And Hull sold a lot of hockey tickets for teams around the league, not just the teams for which he played.
Clarke was right. Orr made the rest of the league look bad.
There hasn’t been an era in hockey where on guy was so much better than everyone else he played with or against.
Cam Neely was the best goal scorer, period... boxed them out then dropped it in
Cam is so underrated. I'm glad you mentioned him. His name doesn't come up so often anymore. But in Buffalo, GOD we wish he was a Sabre! The second greatest power forward ever.
@@jeffreyg4626 I would love to know who you think is the best power forward lol.
I met him when shortly after the hit. I worked at MGH when he came in for the femur scan. He put his hand out first to be shaken, something I will never forget!
What might have been....
Both r legends. Orr is probs the best all round.
Statistically Wayne was better. Longer career. More success and a larger body of work in international play. More Stanley Cups. More awards. Bobby was tougher and had a better plus minus. In all fairness, they can’t be compared as Wayne was a forward and Bobby played defence. Both are outstanding people and ambassadors of the game. Both had a huge influence on the evolution of the game.
agreed it's a bad debate. I would say each are the best at their position.
Bobby Orr, was much more than a defensman. He was the greatest 2 way player of all time. In similar fashion, he and Gretzky knew where everyone was on the ice, and could know where the play would develop. Orr could do it all though. He could stop shots the goalie would miss, play incredible defense and play offense like Gretzky, and he had tremendous speed that was hampered by his knee injuries. I think in total he had around 12 surgeries. SO yes, Wayne had the longer career , but I think when one factors in the context of the situation, Orr was the greatest player. Give Bobby Orr 2 healthy legs, and modern equiptment and I would choose him over anyone.
@@nthdegree1269 yeah and competition playoffs points longevity and being an iron man is part of being the best. Iike Gordy howe. Gretz's idol. I love Orr best defenseman to play the game. Yes he influenced the shift in the game but so did Gretz. But to say orr is best ever player.... theres a few others that would argue that. Gretz, Lemieux ,Howe .Richard. Beliveau. Messier.
Certainly, luck and health play a major role in a player's career. Bobby Orr's injuries were not really his fault, but they significantly shortened his time on the ice. However, if we extrapolate from that and compare the prime of each player, it becomes clear that Orr was something special. I've never seen another player possess Gretzky's vision on the ice-except for Orr. Orr had an almost sixth sense, knowing where everyone was and how the play would unfold. What sets him apart, though, is that he wasn't just an offensive force; his ability to dominate both ends of the rink, defensively and offensively, was unparalleled. He could even stop pucks, playing a complete game that incorporated every aspect of hockey. Although he didn't play as many years as Gretzky or Howe, many would argue that Orr might have been the greatest player to ever lace up skates because of this all-encompassing mastery of the game.
@@nthdegree1269 Sure. I don’t disagree. I know what you mean by luck but it wasn’t luck how Gretzky didn’t get hurt and Orr did. Gretzky was protected but he was also very aware at all times. He knew how to avoid getting hurt. Orr engaged in the rough stuff and didn’t shy away from anything. You don’t dominate the NHL and internationally for 20 years and call that luck. I understand your premise and agree that Orr was head and shoulder better than anyone in his prime years. He was prolific, exciting, revolutionary, tough, fast, and great on both sides of the puck. I guess you could say “better to live one day as a lion than thousands of days as a lamb”.
Don is the hockey God.
hockey devil
No orr is the god...
They forget in between chara and orr they had 20 years of Raymond bourque who was the best for years
Orr would've dominated any era in hockey. I don't Gretzky would've lasted long in the Howe era or the late 60's to mid 70's era.
1 of the reasons I hope to get into heaven is to see the faces off all those who say “Gretzky’s the best” when Orr and Gretzky play a game of 1 on 1 hockey in God’s arena in their primes. The Orr fans will be laughing!!
As we were when he played! To this day, Orr is still the only player I ever saw who brought laughter from the crowd, at home AND on the road.
..... because the Rooskies and the Czechs will be clobbering Orr & his buddies!
4orrcountry -I remember watching those late night west coast trip games. The Seals, Kings and Vancouver would sell out their building because fans wanted to see Bobby Orr put on a show....and he usually did! He ragged the puck for about 40 sec. vs the.Seals and then scored a goal so pretty that players from The Seals bench stood up applauding him....NO Bullshit!!
Gretzky and Lemieux both have a 1.9 career ppg. Orr of course is defense, so his dominance is harder to compare.
After the Trump controversy I believe that Gordon Howe is the GOAT! Even Orr, Lemieux and Wayne said it!
OHH NO somebody has a different opinion/political opinion than I do! How will I ever live now? Now I have to think 100% differently of this person cancel him. Grow up...
@@francescodg22 what is this supposed controversy I never heard of? Apparently it wasn't much of a controversy.
@@invertedxxxi Orr is a Trump supporter.
lemieux is the best
ORR. Period.
No.
One time, my friend crawled into his bar.
Bobby Orr.
Gretzky is the GOAT. Then Mario, the debate is for number 3. Probably Howe, Crosby, Lindstrom, then maybe Orr.
Crosby is not even top 10.
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 He's top 5 for sure.
@@Sportstouring Crosby was the playoff scoring leader only once. Led the league in Assists only once. Only Two Art Ross.Only two seasons with 40+ goals.
I would rank him higher had he not missed so many matches due to Concussions. Another 2-3 100 point seasons
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 In addition to now being a three-time Stanley Cup champion and a two-time Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Crosby is a two-time Hart Trophy winner as the regular-season MVP, a two-time Art Ross Trophy winner as the regular-season scoring leader, and a two-time Rocket Richard Trophy winner as the regular-season leader in goals.
The 29-year-old, having just completed his 12th NHL season, has won the Olympic gold medal twice and helped Team Canada win the World Cup of Hockey 2016, where he was voted the best player in the tournament. He also has won the IIHF World Junior Tournament and the World Championship.
He may be the most decorated hockey player of all time.
@@SportstouringIt was only in 1998 That NHl players were allowed to play in the Olympics. Gretzky, Lemieux and a few others would have had 3-4 Olympic Golds had it been permitted in 1984. Imagine Gretzky, Lemieux, Coffey, Messier, Yzerman, Raymond Bourque, Brett hull playing together. It would have been a demolition.
In his 2nd Olympic Gold Crosby scored only one goal and three Points in the entire 6 game series.
The Maurice Richard Award had its debut in the 1998-99 season. Gretzky would have won it 5x had it existed back then.
Bobby, isn’t he a saint by now making one
They're both great
you got einstien for engineering. you have peter schiff for economics and for hockey you got bobby orr.
It makes me wonder what are Cherry's thoughts on Hughes, he's compared favorably to Orr.
I'm not a historian, but I always figured Gordie Howe was the best even though he retired when I was 1-year old and never got to see him play so it's just speculation on my part a bit.
The thing that astounds me is his consistency over a 20-year period always top 5 in scoring.
Orr's playing style made him too injury prone which reduced his effectiveness, Gretzky really went down near the end of his career and was never that great defensively.
So yeah, I'll pick Howe.
Completely wrong about Orr. And Gretzky too, for that matter.
Gretzky is the greatest point-producer in NHL history, in hockey history, period - but not the finest all-round player. Nor is he what most hockey people think of as the prototype of the ideal NHL player. Wayne made more of his unique attributes than anyone in league history, but that does not change the fact that the defensive and physical sides of his game were lacking or at best average. Gordie Howe or Bobby Orr are the choice for most people. Howe because of his tremendous longevity and consistent excellence at all facets of the game, and Orr because of his almost-supernatural ability to take control of any hockey game he was in. The only real problem with Orr was the relative shortness of his career; he needed better knees, that's for sure. He could do everything you want the ideal hockey player to be able to do. Hall of Fame center Bobby Clarke once said that Orr was the best player in the world on one good leg, and that there needed to be a league higher than the NHL - so Bobby could play in it.
@@4orrcountry I'm wrong that Orr had injuries that reduced his effectiveness?
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Pretty much in agreement but here's what I'm thinking:
* Howe played at a time when checking was tighter and the competition was tougher (although it was mostly Canadians). The year he got 49 goals in 70 games would be prorated to 96 goals in 80s games in 81-82 when Gretzky got 92. I'll say Gretzky's definitely the best passer/playmaker and smartest player but not clear if he would still be the greatest point producer.
* Orr could've used better knees but it would have to be supernaturally better to withstand his playing style. Better to play a bit more conservatively. Fewer points per game but maybe more points overall because he would play more games.
@@September2004 - Those are good points. Many hockey fans do not know that Gordie's best per-season point total was in 1968-69, pretty much at the (first) end of his career, his first "retirement" before joining the WHA. That season he had a personal best of 103 points, which was a big point total in those days. Given his toughness and physical/mental gifts for the game, it is hard to put a ceiling on what he might have accomplished as a young man in the game of the 1980s, as the "Great One" #99 was.
Orr's style was all-out, full-throttle - he has since said that's the only way he knew to play the game. Yes, he might have changed his style of play some once his knees were damaged, but I think the league itself let too many guys get away with dirty hits on Orr.
It is a real shame that the league fathers did not do a better job protecting one of the NHL's best assets, vis-a-vis drawing fans out to see the game at the rink, in person. Lots of hits on Orr that were not penalized, or only lightly-penalized, would today draw a penalty, and also a big fine, a long suspension, or both. I'm not saying that he should have been coddled; Orr would not have stood for it in any case. Just make sure that the guys playing him played within the rules and kept it clean.
It's a special kind of jerk that jeopardizes a guy's career and health for the rest of his life, because he gotten beaten on a play. It's bush league and its not right. Sort of like the guys in today's game who intentionally concuss opposing players for the sake of a game. You're gonna leave a guy with permanent brain damage over losing a hockey game,or getting beaten on a play? That's so wrong I can't even describe it.
But yeah, what a tragedy that Orr had to cash it in when he did. Especially because I am a Blackhawks fan, and we BH fans only got a brief tantalizing glimpse of what Bobby Orr could do in the Indian Head sweater, at the very tail end of his legendary career. Even on bad knees, he was still a very special player.
TOP 3:
1. HOWE
2. ORR
3. YZERMAN
Gretzky and Lemieux were 1 dimensional players and great scorers. Orr was a great scorer who excelled in every facet. The truth be told; Bobby Orr is the greatest player in the history of team sports! Orrs'' knees were damaged before he ever played in the NHL. TRANSLATION ... We never saw how great Orr could have been. If Orr played center and lasted as long as Gretzky, he would be the all time leading scorer in NHL history! I'm not a Bruin fan. I'm a sports fan!
Who is the best player for his era? Orr..60's....70's Lafleur...80's Gretz...90's Lemieux...etc
Orr is the greatest player EVER!
BOBBY ORR FOR SURE
@@cindyallcott905 Gretzky for me.
Wayne Gretzky is the greatest player to ever lace up skates, theres no debate at all.
None, as we've seen here in THIS forum, right nitwit?
In 86-87, Gretzky won the scoring title by 69% ahead of the 2nd scorer (183-108), the widest margin of his career. In 69-70, Orr had 273% more points than the 2nd defenseman (120-44). Your argument may be that early in Orr's career, he was the only truly offensive d-man in the NHL, OK, but later, many more d-men started playing like Orr, one of them was Potvin, the 2nd d-man to score over 100 pts in a season and unanimously agreed to be one of the greatest ever. In 74-75, Orr still outscored him by 78% (135-76). In other words, the argument is that Orr was a defenseman, Gretzky a centreman who played in a higher scoring era, however, Orr outscored other defensemen in his era by a wider margin than Gretzky outscored other forwards in his, for this reason, many of us believe that if he had played a full healthy career, he'd be further ahead of Bourque than Gretzky is ahead of Jagr, that's why we believe he was the best.
Only Ron Mclean would forget Ray Bourque
wayne's the best, there's a reason he's the great one not orr
Because that was his nickname? Makes sense
Grimcow 48 he's saying there's a reason he was given that nickname, genius.
buyist
Eli LaRose no he's not super Mario is the best
Nick Pearson honestly arguable
Bobby Orr is my favorite player of all time, but come on. Greatest ever? No. Greatest defensemen? Possibly.
Greatest Dman dont score 900 plus do they?
Orr not only changed his position he changed the game.
Ummm...Hall of Famers Gordie Howe, Milt Scmidt, Red Fisher and Scotty Bowman have ALL said that Orr is the best hockey player they ever saw. The next time anyone tries to say the best player ever is someone other than Orr, consider the source.
Only old people think orrs the best. Gretzky was os the great one. Gg
With age comes wisdom.
I can see you still have ways to go..
Orr’s plus/minus average per game played is so far ahead of everyone else’s that it is shocking.
the old "everybody knows" statement lol
Orr's better then Gretzky
Maybe on NHL 09 PC version with custom made rosters he is
They should probably get him to a hospital...
and leave him there
2:59 I think you’re forgetting another few great defenseman (Ray Bourque, Mike Milbury, nowadays Charlie McAvoy)
Mike Milbury really lol?
The game is better now than its ever been. Based purely on hockey ability and iq, datsyuk beats every player ever one-on-one. No forward has ever had his ability with the puck and don't forget his amazingly high hockey iq. In his prime he was one of the fastest skaters in the league and he still is one of the best on his edges if not the best. He's the best takeaway artist to ever play and because of his iq always knows what you're trying to do or what you could do with the puck. The combination of all those things make him the best player ever. No one could beat him one on one. Personal opinion so grain of salt.
El Cuñado orr show them how to play....he show how it was done... look how many great skaters there are....thankyou bobby orr...made the game better.....#1 orr
Datsyuk was indeed a great player, but if you didn't see Orr, you never went to church.
It's a toss-up whether they ought to rename the Selke Trophy the "Datsuyk Trophy" or the Patrice Bergeron Award. I've seen Datsuyk play and he was amazing. Absolute magician....
Sorry...no. No one was or is will be better than Orr. No one...ever.