It doesn't need to "rock back and forth" he kicked it to display that it can very easily be moved off its axis (and it only needs to be moved very slight off axis to fuck you up) and clearly you've never done a heavy set with them before if you think otherwise. I've pulled very heavy weight with a trap bar and it is very unstable if you're moving heavy weight in the RPE 8+ range. It's a dumb movement.
@@CigEconomya heavy trap bar is less likely to sway since there is greater intlertia pulling the bar straight down with gravity. Your own opinion does not ignore physics
@@rad_lad_2715 It doesn't matter if it's less likely to sway. It's significantly more likely to sway than a standard barbell, and the heavier the weight the less room there is for error. A standard barbell won't ever randomly swing back and forth because you made a small misgroove. A trap bar will. It's a dumb movement for pussies with weak stomachs.
Rip's take on the trap bar is incredibly dogmatic. There is nothing about a thin straight bar that makes it the best tool for exercising from a biomechanical standpoint, the reason barbells exist have mainly to do with practicality and cost. A trap bar makes the deadlift simpler and easier to learn and master, it reduces back angle which is related to injury risk - and I'm sorry Rip but you're living in your own world if you say you've never had anyone ever injure their backs in your gym, back injuries are easily the most common type in powerlifting and strongman, there have been actual meta-analyses done on this you know and your own personal experience does not compare to that. The trap also does not sacrifice the benefits of the deadlift as a back/hip strengthening exercise, this has also been studied and when the load is adjusted accordingly (ie similar %1RM for both lifts, generally meaning a bit more weight with the trap bar) the trap bar deadlift generates just as much hip torque and activates the back, hip and hamstring muscles just as well, with an increased quadriceps activation which is why one can use more weight - it is in no way shape or form a "just a free weight leg press" as you like to put it, but rather still very much primarily a hip extension exercise. As a general strength developing tool the trap bar deadlift is superior to the barbell deadlift, since - applying your own logic - it allows you to lift more weight and recruit more muscle mass through the same range of motion. The only reason why people cling to the barbell deadlift as the golden standard is because of its history with powerlifting, a bias that you yourself are clearly guilty of.
THANK you. This is exactly right. The man's very experienced, yet self-admittedly not the brightest, and surrounded by yes-men. It's insane how nobody tells him he's wrong, when he CLEARLY is. Has he or anyone there seen someone injure themselves on a trap bar deadlift? My money's on "no". Yet they all... agree with this dogma???
You only get injured doing deadlifts if you're not doing them properly or if you try to go for too much weight which causes form breakdown. It's that simple. The deadlift isn't an injury hazard if done properly.
While I agree with rip on trap bar vs barbell deadlifts, I think we can all agree that the trap bar deadlift and other movements being in the ACFT is better and more effective than just doing push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2 mile run. Also I would much rather do a trap bar deadlift than no deadlift in my Pt test
imlee888 I was surprised how easy those tests were. I saw a video where someone randomly went through different military tests and was mostly astonished by how poorly designed they were. They’re less strenuous than the made up Saitama workout from One Punch Man, whose sole purpose was to be a shitty and underwhelming program that is not at all intense or demanding. If you can’t deadlift the weight of your fellow soldiers all geared up to help out in a pinch, you shouldn’t be in the armed forces.
srhyse I agree, and push-ups, sit-ups, and a two mile run simulate absolutely nothing in combat. The test was designed back in the days when calisthenics and being “toned” ruled. Now CrossFit does so the new test is essentially CrossFit. Thankfully it actually simulates shit you’ll be doing in the field somewhat and isn’t a complete waste of time.
鄭立暘 yeah, he’s a scrub that try’s to start TH-cam drama, steal content, goes back and forth on what his views are to fit the video he’s making, and has mediocre content at best when it isn’t stolen or outright incorrect
LOL, the Army makes soldiers wear 150 lbs of gear, marches them on pavement for hours in boots, then wonders why they have soldiers with hip, knee, and foot problems and then want to claim the standard deadlift is too dangerous? SMH.
Nobody has every gotten injured in your gym or any seminar given by you. What an amazing place it must be to be near you. In every other walk of life, people get injured in the most random ways, but never, ever in your presence it seems. Just like your program works every single time and when someone tells you it hasn't worked in some way, they have just done it wrong - every. single. time. Maybe cut the hyperbole by 90% and your message will be more well received by a larger group of people. Maybe the TRT doesn't allow you to calm down enough to do that so you should check your dosage.
He's right it is the simplest to learn. The only issue I have had is keeping the entire back completely straight as things get heavy. But then I'm still a novice.
That’s why the deadlift is so easy to teach. Because you’re a novice and you immediately recognize that you’re compromising form. That makes it inherently safer. It is very easy to tell when you’re doing it wrong. If you get injured because you choose to ignore that, that’s not because of the exercise, it’s on you.
In my personal experience, every time I attempt to get back into traditional dead lifting, I blow the disc at L4 L5. When I switched to the trap bar, I have never once had a reinjury of the disc. The only way to screw up the trap bar deadlifts is if you are not lifting it straight up and down. I can see getting injured if you are leaning too far forward and the bar will sway. Just to say it’s a piece of garbage is extremely ridiculous. I would much rather be able to safely pull from the floor without the risk of injury using a piece of equipment that closely mimics a dead lift than not do it at all. It’s just another tool, nothing more or less. Especially if you are not competing then why does it matter and why would anyone care in the first place? To say that one way is better than the other for all people is just close minded and not based in reality.....
The trap bar deadlift in on the ACFT to simulate a soldier lifting a litter to evac a casualty it is not saying it is better than a conventional deadlift
There is somebody who disagrees with the deadlift being the simplest or easiest: "I actually think [deadlift] is one of the most technical out of the squat, the bench, all the other exercises," .... "You get one foundation wrong, and it completely goes to shit." -Eddie Hall
@@hussainthebane None of them are that hard in my opinion. Anyone can learn them fairly quickly because you can go through the movement slowly. Olympic lifts are difficult because you can't slow them down.
I have never in my life seen anyone have a trap bar swing around on them and cause injury. Rip is a bad intellectual. He works from the conclusion backwards.
I actually agree with the email. If one has a good teacher, then one can learn to tighten ones glutes and swing your hips rather then use your lower back 100%. However, a lot of those who have never deadlifted can not teach that. I injured my lower back before I learned how to deadlift properly. I use the trap bar now, and a lighter dead lift. However, I am 'working out' and not training for a contest. The No. 1 reason that I am not training for a powerlifting contest is that I am just not now, nor have I ever been STRONG enough to compete. Now, at age 64 and having started 'working out' way back in 1970, I am healthier and stronger then I would have been had I never touched a weight but in all reality - I am just a high school jock who continued to lift until he died.......however, if you can't teach the deadlift because you do not know how to hip hinge/use your glutes/weight , then a dead lift test will leave a lot of soldiers with injured backs that the VA will treat forever. Soldiers do not have to be incredibly strong, but they must walk without lower back pain when they march, they must be able to run and do pull ups onto vehicles and they need to be proficient with their weapons.
Yeah but there's no way you can have a conversation with people like him. He is a good coach but limited in his views, he sees things either black or white. Like with the argument that running doesn't do anything for you. He doesn't accept any other opinion but his own, he assumes everybody has his goals and so on. He is good at coaching the exercises he likes to coach but he should refrain rom putting everything and everybody else down just because they things differently. Even within the realm of conventional powerlifting there are quite a few record holders that teach deadlift, squat & co very differently from him. Are they all wrong because of that?
Soldiers in the modern military do not march to the battlefield. They hop in a vehicle, get transported to the battlefield, and then do a bunch of things that require strength. Soldiers who can deadlift more weight can lift more cases of ammo without fatiguing. They can heave more sandbags without fatiguing. They can carry a pack farther without fatiguing. They can perform all these submaximal movements with greater ease than a weaker soldier can.
Deadlift is a stupid lift anyway. It is a test of performance not an exercise. Some block pulls are much better exercise without destroying your body. For a bunch of teenage kids doing deadlifts to see if they can get in the military is hilarious idea as they will all rupture their backs. A heavy carry or high pull make much more sense if you will do weights. But since strength is trainable you sort of have to wonder why to bother sorting at all in a sense. If they should be stronger then make them stronger ffs. And if they fail then kick them out.
Thanks for all of your great information. I love your videos, and now that I'm forcibly safer-at-home in Florida, I'm learning more about creating videos. Would you please tell me what camera and settings you use to make them look so sharp?
We shoot with Nikon z6 and LOTS of light. We have fairly cheap LED panels from Amazon and match them to the overhead lights. Any modern camera will get you good sharp video, though. Spend a little money on lights so you can keep the ISO low and that will make a big difference.
@@immadumbfuck4942 to an extent yeah but you're normally gonna want to go heavier than what most dumbbells go up to. I personally do one arm barbell carries cuz I don't have two. Plus the torque of a long barbell or farmer's handles is more beneficial than a dense dumbbell in my opinion. More core and stabilizer activation.
The trap bar DL is a safer lift to test strength on than the conventional DL, and for obvious reasons. Maximal loads with a spine angle of ~30deg, vs maximal loads with a spine angle of ~80deg. Gee, let me think which one is more conducive to injury(particularly with untrained individuals who just looking to test their strength). Having said that, conventional is the superior lift in terms of increasing pulling strength, and strengthening the PC. Rip is just married to his own bias.
Anyone actually felt unstable using a trap bar? I didn't expect to recommend the trap bar. He's not going to recommend anything he hasn't programmed but I didn't expect the knock against the trap bar to be stability
That wasn't the main argument. The main argument was that people use them so they can have a more vertical back angle which is wrong. You are all dogmatic for not watching the video.
"Hur dur you're not in the military so you can't question the Army's logic even though your entire career is based off of training people " The ASVAB was a mistake.
I find that the trap bar is unstable. When I pull it from the floor it moves around a little and I don’t like that feeling.. I do like it with a lower weight and doing farmers with it though I usually pull it off blocks when doing them.
Both the regular bar and trap bar have their uses. It's like saying running is better than cycling or better than rowing. As a retired soldier, we were taught to carry heavy things at our sides not in front of us. Why? I guess Rip knows how to do only one thing and can't handle different options....
The military would be the best time to need to do a traditional deadlift. It’s not like you can cut your fellow soldiers or gear in half to evenly distribute them on either side before picking them up.
I wonder what Rippetoes thoughts would be on Robert Oberst also saying the conventional deadlift has a high injury rate and he wouldn't recommend athletes to use them, he even states the trap bar deadlift is better for injury prevention. (Not saying I agree but there's been a lot of discussion about his opinion online.)
Yeah I think people were massively taking his comments out of context as well. The point he was getting at was you shouldn’t deadlift “improperly”. Deadlifting is the easiest lift to learn but a bastard when you get it wrong
And the point he made on how Football teams won't deadlift because they need their players to never get injured. They do hang cleans instead of dead lifts. Hmmm wonder why??? Maybe because football teams have some.of the highest paid professionals sports scientists coaching them?
So, the Military uses the trap bar based on actual weightlifting studies/science. Trap bar VS straightbar deadlift safety has been proven scientifically. Even on the Joe Rogan podcast an actual professional strongman competitor said himself that the deadlifting risk to reward ratio is and I quote "a joke". This is a professional with more training than this guy has. Football teams don't deadlift for a reason, and they have the best trainers and scientists backing them. Mark seems to be the type of guy who hates learning and science, so he gets mad at it and calls it stupid. I never understood the type of people who hated education and learning from science.
I love rip, but I'm a trap bar junkie. Just feels right to me. Not saying he's wrong, but I just like it. I think squat and dl are together a better workout. But the trap bar does a decent enough job for my back and lower body. My back and lower body genetically are very good, so I just don't need to train them as hard as my chest, shoulders, and arms which are horrible genetically.
Rip has it right. I'm not a coach of any kind, but when a friend asks me to show them how to deadlift, I can have them doing it pretty much right within 5 minutes. I've also showed someone who thought they knew how to deadlift that it needed to be pulled from over mid-foot and immediately watched their 1RM go up by forty pounds. The important stuff isn't hard to teach, and the army should be able to do it.
Trap bar leverages are neutral between a deadlift and a barbell hack squat. The problem with the trap bar, is that it doesn't require you to learn how to get the bar around your legs. It's not a skill. I'd rather see someone learn the deadlift, and the barbell hack squat. Most people don't know how to program the barbell hack squat though, so you should probably just stick with the SS program, or something close.
Why would a soldier need to learn the "skill of getting the bar around the legs"? The trap-bar deadlift is great at measuring the strength of the posterior chain , while allowing for a more vertical back angle you wouldn't normally get from a conventional deadlift. Moreover, the neutral grip allows for the weakest-link of the lift to not almost always be the grip, allowing for a more holistic test of strength without needing much skill. Furthermore, the enclosed space also disallows novices from trying to lift from compromising position, e.g. from barbell very far away from the legs and the back being very horizontal.
@@JHMninja89 "Why would a soldier need to learn the "skill of getting the bar around the legs"?" Because most things a soldier will need to pick up, aren't going to be setup with the conveniences you just mentioned about the trap bar. Pretty much everything you mentioned as positives, are why it sucks.
Some people lack the hamstring and lower back flexibility to preform the conventional Deadlift safely. The trap bar Deadlift requires Less flexibility to preform safely, since the handles are elevated and the weight is centered on your hips.
@@dafunkmonster doesn't matter. If you have very tight hamstrings and long leg/ short arm ratio, it's difficult to raise your hips high enough without your low back rounding to compensate. You see this a lot when people feel the need to "squat" the weight up by dropping their hips too low because they lack flexibility.
Rip is the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, his overwhelming bias diminishes him as an instructor. For example, he takes a newby and teaches the skill for 5 minutes and the pupil performs the skill sufficiently on day one. But the newby doesn’t have a trainer/coach every day and over time as the newby advances and uses heavier wts the skill often falters often leading to injuries. The fact of the matter is that hex/trap bars have less skill involved and as a consequence have less injuries. The usefulness in this case is it’s simplicity.
I Deadlift with a Barbell and a Trapbar at home. I’ve had zero injuries form using the Barbell and several injuries using the Trapbar Watching the reasons RIP highlighted in his recent video for ditching the Trapbar confirmed what I already suspected which for me is a slight slope in the garage floor causing a slight roll of the bar out of position causing everything else to fall out of position and cause injury. With a Barbell I can feel from my skin if there has been any movement away or towards. Trapbar is now going on eBay.
@@ryanpsyu7339 Did I say it wasn’t my fault? Read the nuance of my comment rather than plucking out the odd word and coming to an I’ll conceived conclusion
@@strength4all185 you said the reasons in his video confirmed your injury... He didn't say anything about your floor causing the bar to roll away and then you pick it up wrong.
@@ryanpsyu7339 that’s precisely what he said. Positioning of the bar. How the position varies is irrelevant. With a Barbell you have a far better point of reference for its position relative to yourself. You get that so much with a hex bar
imlee888 do you know the difference between training and exercise? If you agree with Rips principles, why would you consider finding another methodology because its easy.... a spades a spade man
No, I wish they would do barbell deadlifts in it. I’m saying that even though it’s a trap bar deadlift, it’s still an improvement over the army’s old PT test (just push-ups, sit-ups, and a two mile run). I’d rather have any deadlift than no deadlift in my PT test.
Trap bar deadlift causes my back to hurt because as the weight gets heavier, the trap bar tilts either to the back or front and causes oscillation of the back.
The biggest argument for the trap bar over a deadlift is that most trap bars have handles that allow you to pull from a more upright position. This is useful for someone with very limited mobility and/or a weak lower back, but in that case a rack pull probably still beats the trap bar.
The ACFT, which is what this argument is about, uses trap bars without elevated handles, so for 99% of people they might have at most a 1 degree more upright position lol
@@scottmcmanus1453 That's why the plate loaded barbell was invented. It's not hard to start with some 10lb bumpers if that's what you need to do. Next time you need to pick up a heavy box, or a bag of dirt for your garden.. ..just remember that you can't put it on a trap bar to make it "safe".
@@VegetoStevieD Yep I understand. There are people in the real world that literally can't bend over and pull a barbell from the floor with a flat back. Those people need an interim step to get themselves there. The trap bar can help. By the way, Rip knows this he just likes to preach in absolutes. Everyone knows squats are better than leg press but Rip has a leg press in his gym.
Rip you should add to your trap bar argument that it offers massive axial loading with limited hip and knee ROM, thereby making it useless as a general strength exercise. The sagittal plane argument is of rather limited use because it stops being an issue after routine training of the lift.
There is nothing wrong with a trap bar. Better lifters than Mark, or even people Mark's been around have used and continue to use. Mark keeps bringing up the army using a trap bar, but he shouldn't. Matt Wenning was one of a few consultants for the army when they went to change the PT and his lift totals double Mark's. Stand beside people who use their heads more than their voice box.
The fact that SS has been training the dead lift injury free for fifteen years is meaningless in the absence of a trap bar trained group control alongside.
I seriously doubt that claim anyway, and how closely they follow their athletes to be so certain of whether or not they ever had any injuries. I'm calling Rip's BS on that one. You'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who has been lifting heavy for 15 years and hasn't had multiple injuries, even if minor ones. And back injuries are by far the worst offender. If you've got a bunch of people doing one set of deadlifts of five at 75% once a week, well then yeah I guess they could do that for 15 years and never injure their back.
@@BigUriel For all the good work SS does, when Rip makes blanket statements like SSLP 'works for everyone every time its tried' then blames the lifter for 'not doing the program' if it doesn't, it simply drags his dogmatism into the spotlight. But on the flip side, he's also said that 'riding a pushbike' will make a novices bench go up, so its more or less playing tennis without the net anyway.
It's not meaningless if we know for a FACT that the barbell deadlift is a better exercise, which we do. The whole argument is predicated on the trap bar being easier to learn and being safer and neither is the case.
That's not to say the the trap bar deadlift is a useless exercise, it might have use at a higher level of programming or if you're coming back from an injury. But it should never be a replacement for the barbell deadlift.
Deadlift is not simple at all. I've been lifting over 2 years and I'm still perfecting my technique and have to drill myself with lightweight to remember how to do it
While you are right in the fact that rip is a narcissist, he did fix mistakes every time he published a new book, meaning that he knew he was wrong and fixed it
It amuses the hell out of me that so many people defend the use of a piece of equipment that can only be used for one lift. The trap bar can only be used for trap bar deadlifts. You can’t squat with it. You can’t press with it. You can’t bench with it. You can’t do inverted rows with it. It’s an expensive piece of equipment for one single lift. Why are people defending this fuckery? Is it all just gym bros who seek to project status by amassing a collection of expensive, nearly-useless equipment?
I was gonna say shrugs and farmer walks. Also trap bar jumps are good for building explosiveness and a good warmup for squats or actual deadlifts. In my gym it gets used for those three far more often then deadlifting with it.
Dear Mr Rippetoe,
please consider doing a video while wearing a cowboy hat.
make it a 20-gallon one
@@fsmoura do you know who is alec enkiri?
@@鄭立暘-w6h yes why
@@shinsegi8422years later and he still hasn’t answered…
I only ever in my life saw a trap bar rock back and forth. It was when Rippetoe was kicking it.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Proofread before sending.
It doesn't need to "rock back and forth" he kicked it to display that it can very easily be moved off its axis (and it only needs to be moved very slight off axis to fuck you up) and clearly you've never done a heavy set with them before if you think otherwise. I've pulled very heavy weight with a trap bar and it is very unstable if you're moving heavy weight in the RPE 8+ range. It's a dumb movement.
@@CigEconomya heavy trap bar is less likely to sway since there is greater intlertia pulling the bar straight down with gravity. Your own opinion does not ignore physics
@@rad_lad_2715 It doesn't matter if it's less likely to sway. It's significantly more likely to sway than a standard barbell, and the heavier the weight the less room there is for error. A standard barbell won't ever randomly swing back and forth because you made a small misgroove. A trap bar will. It's a dumb movement for pussies with weak stomachs.
1:33 _It's FAHVE steps_
It had to be said
Rip's take on the trap bar is incredibly dogmatic. There is nothing about a thin straight bar that makes it the best tool for exercising from a biomechanical standpoint, the reason barbells exist have mainly to do with practicality and cost.
A trap bar makes the deadlift simpler and easier to learn and master, it reduces back angle which is related to injury risk - and I'm sorry Rip but you're living in your own world if you say you've never had anyone ever injure their backs in your gym, back injuries are easily the most common type in powerlifting and strongman, there have been actual meta-analyses done on this you know and your own personal experience does not compare to that.
The trap also does not sacrifice the benefits of the deadlift as a back/hip strengthening exercise, this has also been studied and when the load is adjusted accordingly (ie similar %1RM for both lifts, generally meaning a bit more weight with the trap bar) the trap bar deadlift generates just as much hip torque and activates the back, hip and hamstring muscles just as well, with an increased quadriceps activation which is why one can use more weight - it is in no way shape or form a "just a free weight leg press" as you like to put it, but rather still very much primarily a hip extension exercise.
As a general strength developing tool the trap bar deadlift is superior to the barbell deadlift, since - applying your own logic - it allows you to lift more weight and recruit more muscle mass through the same range of motion. The only reason why people cling to the barbell deadlift as the golden standard is because of its history with powerlifting, a bias that you yourself are clearly guilty of.
THANK you. This is exactly right. The man's very experienced, yet self-admittedly not the brightest, and surrounded by yes-men. It's insane how nobody tells him he's wrong, when he CLEARLY is. Has he or anyone there seen someone injure themselves on a trap bar deadlift? My money's on "no". Yet they all... agree with this dogma???
Repeat the word 'dogmatic' enough times and you're automatically right.
You only get injured doing deadlifts if you're not doing them properly or if you try to go for too much weight which causes form breakdown. It's that simple. The deadlift isn't an injury hazard if done properly.
While I agree with rip on trap bar vs barbell deadlifts, I think we can all agree that the trap bar deadlift and other movements being in the ACFT is better and more effective than just doing push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2 mile run. Also I would much rather do a trap bar deadlift than no deadlift in my Pt test
imlee888 I was surprised how easy those tests were. I saw a video where someone randomly went through different military tests and was mostly astonished by how poorly designed they were. They’re less strenuous than the made up Saitama workout from One Punch Man, whose sole purpose was to be a shitty and underwhelming program that is not at all intense or demanding. If you can’t deadlift the weight of your fellow soldiers all geared up to help out in a pinch, you shouldn’t be in the armed forces.
srhyse I agree, and push-ups, sit-ups, and a two mile run simulate absolutely nothing in combat. The test was designed back in the days when calisthenics and being “toned” ruled. Now CrossFit does so the new test is essentially CrossFit. Thankfully it actually simulates shit you’ll be doing in the field somewhat and isn’t a complete waste of time.
@@Jmack7861 do you know who is alec enkiri?
鄭立暘 yeah, he’s a scrub that try’s to start TH-cam drama, steal content, goes back and forth on what his views are to fit the video he’s making, and has mediocre content at best when it isn’t stolen or outright incorrect
@@Jmack7861 I put some comments on his video and he's got mad, is he really know about athletes training?
Has Rippetoe ever said the words "I was wrong" in his life? Asking for a friend.
No he never needed to 😊
cope trap bar crybaby's.
@@treckrunner711😅😅
Yup. He's stopped recommending front squats and doing rows with a supine grip. I'm sure there are other examples.
LOL, the Army makes soldiers wear 150 lbs of gear, marches them on pavement for hours in boots, then wonders why they have soldiers with hip, knee, and foot problems and then want to claim the standard deadlift is too dangerous? SMH.
my knees and hips are FUBAR...running in them old combat boots....
Nobody has every gotten injured in your gym or any seminar given by you. What an amazing place it must be to be near you. In every other walk of life, people get injured in the most random ways, but never, ever in your presence it seems. Just like your program works every single time and when someone tells you it hasn't worked in some way, they have just done it wrong - every. single. time. Maybe cut the hyperbole by 90% and your message will be more well received by a larger group of people. Maybe the TRT doesn't allow you to calm down enough to do that so you should check your dosage.
Lol agree
I agree the deadlift isn't hard to teach, but I still don't think the trap bar is useless, it has its place if you need or want to do it.
it has its place in the money making business, not in strength training business
@@antoniopudina454 For people not specifically training for powerlifting, the trap bar is a fantastic tool tbh.
He's right it is the simplest to learn. The only issue I have had is keeping the entire back completely straight as things get heavy. But then I'm still a novice.
there's your answer
@@Cenot4ph do u know who is alec enkiri?
You don't need to keep your back straight, that's going to just make it harder. Natural arch my man.
@@newerest1 thanks, I deadlift 10000lbs. I am stronger than Eddie hall.
That’s why the deadlift is so easy to teach. Because you’re a novice and you immediately recognize that you’re compromising form. That makes it inherently safer. It is very easy to tell when you’re doing it wrong. If you get injured because you choose to ignore that, that’s not because of the exercise, it’s on you.
After one of Alan Thrall's videos (after Rip made his trap bar video), any time I see Rip I can't help but say "S A G I T T A L P L A N E"
In my personal experience, every time I attempt to get back into traditional dead lifting, I blow the disc at L4 L5. When I switched to the trap bar, I have never once had a reinjury of the disc. The only way to screw up the trap bar deadlifts is if you are not lifting it straight up and down. I can see getting injured if you are leaning too far forward and the bar will sway. Just to say it’s a piece of garbage is extremely ridiculous. I would much rather be able to safely pull from the floor without the risk of injury using a piece of equipment that closely mimics a dead lift than not do it at all. It’s just another tool, nothing more or less. Especially if you are not competing then why does it matter and why would anyone care in the first place? To say that one way is better than the other for all people is just close minded and not based in reality.....
*SAGITTAL STRENGTH*
The trap bar deadlift in on the ACFT to simulate a soldier lifting a litter to evac a casualty it is not saying it is better than a conventional deadlift
There is somebody who disagrees with the deadlift being the simplest or easiest:
"I actually think [deadlift] is one of the most technical out of the squat, the bench, all the other exercises," .... "You get one foundation wrong, and it completely goes to shit."
-Eddie Hall
Was thinking of that. All of the big lifts everyone has their own idea of what is most difficult from bench squat or dl.
@@hussainthebane None of them are that hard in my opinion. Anyone can learn them fairly quickly because you can go through the movement slowly. Olympic lifts are difficult because you can't slow them down.
I have never in my life seen anyone have a trap bar swing around on them and cause injury. Rip is a bad intellectual. He works from the conclusion backwards.
I actually agree with the email. If one has a good teacher, then one can learn to tighten ones glutes and swing your hips rather then use your lower back 100%. However, a lot of those who have never deadlifted can not teach that. I injured my lower back before I learned how to deadlift properly. I use the trap bar now, and a lighter dead lift. However, I am 'working out' and not training for a contest. The No. 1 reason that I am not training for a powerlifting contest is that I am just not now, nor have I ever been STRONG enough to compete. Now, at age 64 and having started 'working out' way back in 1970, I am healthier and stronger then I would have been had I never touched a weight but in all reality - I am just a high school jock who continued to lift until he died.......however, if you can't teach the deadlift because you do not know how to hip hinge/use your glutes/weight , then a dead lift test will leave a lot of soldiers with injured backs that the VA will treat forever. Soldiers do not have to be incredibly strong, but they must walk without lower back pain when they march, they must be able to run and do pull ups onto vehicles and they need to be proficient with their weapons.
Yeah but there's no way you can have a conversation with people like him. He is a good coach but limited in his views, he sees things either black or white. Like with the argument that running doesn't do anything for you. He doesn't accept any other opinion but his own, he assumes everybody has his goals and so on. He is good at coaching the exercises he likes to coach but he should refrain rom putting everything and everybody else down just because they things differently. Even within the realm of conventional powerlifting there are quite a few record holders that teach deadlift, squat & co very differently from him. Are they all wrong because of that?
Soldiers in the modern military do not march to the battlefield. They hop in a vehicle, get transported to the battlefield, and then do a bunch of things that require strength.
Soldiers who can deadlift more weight can lift more cases of ammo without fatiguing. They can heave more sandbags without fatiguing. They can carry a pack farther without fatiguing. They can perform all these submaximal movements with greater ease than a weaker soldier can.
Deadlift is a stupid lift anyway. It is a test of performance not an exercise. Some block pulls are much better exercise without destroying your body. For a bunch of teenage kids doing deadlifts to see if they can get in the military is hilarious idea as they will all rupture their backs. A heavy carry or high pull make much more sense if you will do weights. But since strength is trainable you sort of have to wonder why to bother sorting at all in a sense. If they should be stronger then make them stronger ffs. And if they fail then kick them out.
He gets flustered when someone disagrees
Thanks for all of your great information. I love your videos, and now that I'm forcibly safer-at-home in Florida, I'm learning more about creating videos. Would you please tell me what camera and settings you use to make them look so sharp?
We shoot with Nikon z6 and LOTS of light. We have fairly cheap LED panels from Amazon and match them to the overhead lights. Any modern camera will get you good sharp video, though. Spend a little money on lights so you can keep the ISO low and that will make a big difference.
@@startingstrength Thanks! The videos look great!
@@startingstrength You're pretty cool for sharing this info Rip and team. Not the kind of comment I'd have thought you might reply to. Respect +15
Trap bar isn't useless. It's good for farmers walks.
Until you trip
@@boxman_ninja0819 Dumbbells are probably safer though
@@immadumbfuck4942 to an extent yeah but you're normally gonna want to go heavier than what most dumbbells go up to. I personally do one arm barbell carries cuz I don't have two. Plus the torque of a long barbell or farmer's handles is more beneficial than a dense dumbbell in my opinion. More core and stabilizer activation.
The trap bar DL is a safer lift to test strength on than the conventional DL, and for obvious reasons. Maximal loads with a spine angle of ~30deg, vs maximal loads with a spine angle of ~80deg. Gee, let me think which one is more conducive to injury(particularly with untrained individuals who just looking to test their strength). Having said that, conventional is the superior lift in terms of increasing pulling strength, and strengthening the PC. Rip is just married to his own bias.
God thank you that this man exist!
Anyone actually felt unstable using a trap bar? I didn't expect to recommend the trap bar. He's not going to recommend anything he hasn't programmed but I didn't expect the knock against the trap bar to be stability
That wasn't the main argument. The main argument was that people use them so they can have a more vertical back angle which is wrong. You are all dogmatic for not watching the video.
It's only unstable if an old fat guy pushes down on the bar during your set
Yes, after my 25 rep burnout sets.
The Army's "new" physical fitness is just crosshit for the Army.
I’m in the army... the trap bar deadlift is trash. I max the event easily
@@davidross8730 the army's physical standards are trash not the trap bar lol
@@jackbeanstock8731the army was absolutely smart to adopt the trap bar, but they were cowards and dropped the new test entirely
S A G I T T A L P L A N E
"Hur dur you're not in the military so you can't question the Army's logic even though your entire career is based off of training people " The ASVAB was a mistake.
I find that the trap bar is unstable. When I pull it from the floor it moves around a little and I don’t like that feeling.. I do like it with a lower weight and doing farmers with it though I usually pull it off blocks when doing them.
Both the regular bar and trap bar have their uses. It's like saying running is better than cycling or better than rowing. As a retired soldier, we were taught to carry heavy things at our sides not in front of us. Why? I guess Rip knows how to do only one thing and can't handle different options....
What if dont have 3 minutes?
Rip, have you tried “The Frog-Functional Exercise Machine”? Would love your thoughts.
😂😂😂
It’s a super light weight though. Your chance of injury should be low with either bar.
The military would be the best time to need to do a traditional deadlift. It’s not like you can cut your fellow soldiers or gear in half to evenly distribute them on either side before picking them up.
Stretchers
You also don't slide them up your knees.
Trenton Kelley I’d be fine with them having to pick up and haul 250lbs sand bags too.
@@trentonakelley I laughed way too much at this
Did you even read the book?
Unless your a power lifter, the trap bar is the way to go. Real world gym experiences prove this 🤷🏻♂️
I wonder what Rippetoes thoughts would be on Robert Oberst also saying the conventional deadlift has a high injury rate and he wouldn't recommend athletes to use them, he even states the trap bar deadlift is better for injury prevention. (Not saying I agree but there's been a lot of discussion about his opinion online.)
Yeah I think people were massively taking his comments out of context as well. The point he was getting at was you shouldn’t deadlift “improperly”. Deadlifting is the easiest lift to learn but a bastard when you get it wrong
And the point he made on how Football teams won't deadlift because they need their players to never get injured. They do hang cleans instead of dead lifts. Hmmm wonder why??? Maybe because football teams have some.of the highest paid professionals sports scientists coaching them?
@@jd8226 such a ridiculous statement that deadlift is the easiest to learn lol. Objectively untrue.
These questions/comments are gonna cause Rip to blow a gasket one of these days.
watching rip rip on the haters is why we come here
So, the Military uses the trap bar based on actual weightlifting studies/science. Trap bar VS straightbar deadlift safety has been proven scientifically. Even on the Joe Rogan podcast an actual professional strongman competitor said himself that the deadlifting risk to reward ratio is and I quote "a joke". This is a professional with more training than this guy has. Football teams don't deadlift for a reason, and they have the best trainers and scientists backing them. Mark seems to be the type of guy who hates learning and science, so he gets mad at it and calls it stupid. I never understood the type of people who hated education and learning from science.
Those arguing that there's no instability to the trap bar deadlift have very clearly never done a very heavy set with time.
I love rip, but I'm a trap bar junkie. Just feels right to me. Not saying he's wrong, but I just like it. I think squat and dl are together a better workout. But the trap bar does a decent enough job for my back and lower body. My back and lower body genetically are very good, so I just don't need to train them as hard as my chest, shoulders, and arms which are horrible genetically.
I bought one through Amazon just to expand the home gym just need it to get here.
I taught my cat how to use the toilet....so easy even a cave man can do it.
Only good comment here
Rip has it right. I'm not a coach of any kind, but when a friend asks me to show them how to deadlift, I can have them doing it pretty much right within 5 minutes. I've also showed someone who thought they knew how to deadlift that it needed to be pulled from over mid-foot and immediately watched their 1RM go up by forty pounds. The important stuff isn't hard to teach, and the army should be able to do it.
Trap bar leverages are neutral between a deadlift and a barbell hack squat.
The problem with the trap bar, is that it doesn't require you to learn how to get the bar around your legs. It's not a skill.
I'd rather see someone learn the deadlift, and the barbell hack squat. Most people don't know how to program the barbell hack squat though, so you should probably just stick with the SS program, or something close.
Why would a soldier need to learn the "skill of getting the bar around the legs"? The trap-bar deadlift is great at measuring the strength of the posterior chain , while allowing for a more vertical back angle you wouldn't normally get from a conventional deadlift. Moreover, the neutral grip allows for the weakest-link of the lift to not almost always be the grip, allowing for a more holistic test of strength without needing much skill. Furthermore, the enclosed space also disallows novices from trying to lift from compromising position, e.g. from barbell very far away from the legs and the back being very horizontal.
@@JHMninja89
"Why would a soldier need to learn the "skill of getting the bar around the legs"?"
Because most things a soldier will need to pick up, aren't going to be setup with the conveniences you just mentioned about the trap bar.
Pretty much everything you mentioned as positives, are why it sucks.
@@VegetoStevieD The things that soldiers would need to pick up resemble neither a barbell nor trap bar.
Some people lack the hamstring and lower back flexibility to preform the conventional Deadlift safely. The trap bar Deadlift requires Less flexibility to preform safely, since the handles are elevated and the weight is centered on your hips.
Thomas Cogger Hamstring flexibility is not a factor in a barbell deadlift. Because the knees are bent.
@@dafunkmonster doesn't matter. If you have very tight hamstrings and long leg/ short arm ratio, it's difficult to raise your hips high enough without your low back rounding to compensate. You see this a lot when people feel the need to "squat" the weight up by dropping their hips too low because they lack flexibility.
Rip is the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, his overwhelming bias diminishes him as an instructor. For example, he takes a newby and teaches the skill for 5 minutes and the pupil performs the skill sufficiently on day one. But the newby doesn’t have a trainer/coach every day and over time as the newby advances and uses heavier wts the skill often falters often leading to injuries. The fact of the matter is that hex/trap bars have less skill involved and as a consequence have less injuries. The usefulness in this case is it’s simplicity.
I Deadlift with a Barbell and a Trapbar at home. I’ve had zero injuries form using the Barbell and several injuries using the Trapbar Watching the reasons RIP highlighted in his recent video for ditching the Trapbar confirmed what I already suspected which for me is a slight slope in the garage floor causing a slight roll of the bar out of position causing everything else to fall out of position and cause injury. With a Barbell I can feel from my skin if there has been any movement away or towards. Trapbar is now going on eBay.
Then your injury is your own fault and your floors fault, not because the trap bar...
@@ryanpsyu7339 Did I say it wasn’t my fault? Read the nuance of my comment rather than plucking out the odd word and coming to an I’ll conceived conclusion
@@strength4all185 you said the reasons in his video confirmed your injury... He didn't say anything about your floor causing the bar to roll away and then you pick it up wrong.
@@ryanpsyu7339 that’s precisely what he said. Positioning of the bar. How the position varies is irrelevant. With a Barbell you have a far better point of reference for its position relative to yourself. You get that so much with a hex bar
@@strength4all185 no he acted like the bar will move around in the air when you lift it, but it doesn't unless you do it on purpose.
Lots of folks say it is better for athletic performance. I'll keep the squat and deadlift and play it safe, I'm old anyway. Fuck playing sports.
imlee888 do you know the difference between training and exercise? If you agree with Rips principles, why would you consider finding another methodology because its easy.... a spades a spade man
No, I wish they would do barbell deadlifts in it. I’m saying that even though it’s a trap bar deadlift, it’s still an improvement over the army’s old PT test (just push-ups, sit-ups, and a two mile run). I’d rather have any deadlift than no deadlift in my PT test.
Cope bar users btfo!!!!
Uncle fucking Rip!!!
You are wrong as soon as you say that sometimes to yourself your Ego might let go of its darkness!
Trap bar deadlift causes my back to hurt because as the weight gets heavier, the trap bar tilts either to the back or front and causes oscillation of the back.
The biggest argument for the trap bar over a deadlift is that most trap bars have handles that allow you to pull from a more upright position. This is useful for someone with very limited mobility and/or a weak lower back, but in that case a rack pull probably still beats the trap bar.
The ACFT, which is what this argument is about, uses trap bars without elevated handles, so for 99% of people they might have at most a 1 degree more upright position lol
If you have a weak lower back, all the more reason to strengthen it.
@@VegetoStevieD For sure, but some people will need to work up to that. Even a modest pull from the floor will put some people at risk of injury.
@@scottmcmanus1453 That's why the plate loaded barbell was invented. It's not hard to start with some 10lb bumpers if that's what you need to do.
Next time you need to pick up a heavy box, or a bag of dirt for your garden.. ..just remember that you can't put it on a trap bar to make it "safe".
@@VegetoStevieD Yep I understand. There are people in the real world that literally can't bend over and pull a barbell from the floor with a flat back. Those people need an interim step to get themselves there. The trap bar can help. By the way, Rip knows this he just likes to preach in absolutes. Everyone knows squats are better than leg press but Rip has a leg press in his gym.
3 minutes? In all of your videos you've never taken less than 10 minutes in any of them.
Rip you should add to your trap bar argument that it offers massive axial loading with limited hip and knee ROM, thereby making it useless as a general strength exercise. The sagittal plane argument is of rather limited use because it stops being an issue after routine training of the lift.
Alec enkiri
They are two distinct tools. And they each have specific technical pieces that need to be taught to perform safely.
There is nothing wrong with a trap bar. Better lifters than Mark, or even people Mark's been around have used and continue to use. Mark keeps bringing up the army using a trap bar, but he shouldn't. Matt Wenning was one of a few consultants for the army when they went to change the PT and his lift totals double Mark's. Stand beside people who use their heads more than their voice box.
The fact that SS has been training the dead lift injury free for fifteen years is meaningless in the absence of a trap bar trained group control alongside.
I seriously doubt that claim anyway, and how closely they follow their athletes to be so certain of whether or not they ever had any injuries. I'm calling Rip's BS on that one.
You'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who has been lifting heavy for 15 years and hasn't had multiple injuries, even if minor ones. And back injuries are by far the worst offender. If you've got a bunch of people doing one set of deadlifts of five at 75% once a week, well then yeah I guess they could do that for 15 years and never injure their back.
@@BigUriel For all the good work SS does, when Rip makes blanket statements like SSLP 'works for everyone every time its tried' then blames the lifter for 'not doing the program' if it doesn't, it simply drags his dogmatism into the spotlight. But on the flip side, he's also said that 'riding a pushbike' will make a novices bench go up, so its more or less playing tennis without the net anyway.
It's not meaningless if we know for a FACT that the barbell deadlift is a better exercise, which we do. The whole argument is predicated on the trap bar being easier to learn and being safer and neither is the case.
That's not to say the the trap bar deadlift is a useless exercise, it might have use at a higher level of programming or if you're coming back from an injury. But it should never be a replacement for the barbell deadlift.
@@CigEconomy Define 'better'. And why would you program a less safe, by your definition, exercise, for somebody coming back from injury?
Deadlift is not simple at all.
I've been lifting over 2 years and I'm still perfecting my technique and have to drill myself with lightweight to remember how to do it
This guy is a supreme narcissist
Who is never wrong
Find me one strength coach, bodybuilding coach, or any kind of fitness "guru" who accuses himself of being wrong.
While you are right in the fact that rip is a narcissist, he did fix mistakes every time he published a new book,
meaning that he knew he was wrong and fixed it
🚫🧢
Yes Sir !
It amuses the hell out of me that so many people defend the use of a piece of equipment that can only be used for one lift.
The trap bar can only be used for trap bar deadlifts. You can’t squat with it. You can’t press with it. You can’t bench with it. You can’t do inverted rows with it. It’s an expensive piece of equipment for one single lift.
Why are people defending this fuckery? Is it all just gym bros who seek to project status by amassing a collection of expensive, nearly-useless equipment?
Farmer's Walks. Have you tried those with a barbell?
You can do farmers walks. You rack it and do overhead presses. You can shrug with it. I mean it's actually a cheap bar and versatile
I was gonna say shrugs and farmer walks. Also trap bar jumps are good for building explosiveness and a good warmup for squats or actual deadlifts. In my gym it gets used for those three far more often then deadlifting with it.
You can actually do all of those things with a trap bar lol
I’ve literally seen people do all the things you stated that you can’t do with a trap bar lol.