The Bench Press Is Overrated? - Starting Strength Radio Clips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Rip clarifies his thoughts on the bench press and its relation to the press.
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I'd choose the standing bench press over the regular bench press every day of the week.
I do a farmers bench walk whenever I take my bench out to train at my backyard, 40 steps a round trip
No such thing as standing bench press 🤦🏿♂️
@@arch0049 bad form ohp 🤦♂️
What about floor press? I never liked bench press
@@comanchedase personally, I never liked the floor press because I have a long forearm relatively to the humerus so my rom is very limited. And now I'm more into bodybuilding rather than powerlifting so there is no real motive for me to do floor presses.
1:25 Mark Rippotoe The Bodybuilder
Lately I have been doing OHP as my main lift and weighed push-ups as secondary movement on push day. I don't see anything wrong with it.
OHP into dips for me. Bench feels weird
Next, try the hand-stand push-up! Another great torso moving upper body blaster! Albeit, a very advanced movement, but more than worth the effort to learn it!
No offense but why should your personal opinion matter
@@B0mbo-h7x Who ever said that it should matter?
@@tmackn6592 Weighted pike push-ups is what I do. I don't really like handstand pushups.
I read all my comments, all 15 of them I might add 🤛🏼
Brilliant when people ask a question and answer it at the same time
He has such a great sense of humour! This man is Gold in the strength training world!
He knows more than you ever will.
Funny, because closer grip benching is definately debilitating to me whereas a normal-slightly wide grip usually feels fine
You're probably going too close then
Same
Its more about the elbow angle. Try tucking your elbows in closer to your rib cage. Not too far, find the right spot.
I suffer from an old shoulder injury that has given me athritis in my left shoulder. I have found that the pain comes with the full range of motion. Therefore, i tend to bench to parallel and no lower. I get less discomfort that way.
Dips, OHP, pushups> bench for now. My shoulders were killing me from benching. Taking a break from benching. When I go back to it after Corona cools down I'll do dumbell bench instead.
Put your hand on your pec and push out. The pec contracts the hardest when pushing downward and across the chest. The decline bench is the natural angle the pecs are designed to be used for. So do OHP and Decline bench to get the best of both, and you can do them both in the same session without one movement weakening you for the other.
OHP and Dips as well!
What's the reasoning behind doing decline vs flat bench press?
@@SalmanRavoof you can do either, but your body has a mechanical advantage doing decline.
@@JayKay9112000 Yup, decline bench mimics the movement of lifting yourself up on a tree and well.... we are primates. That's reason why decline bench is essentially the heavist pressing movement humans can do.
Same witht he deadlift.... Mimics lifting a friend up on said tree branch... Same reason why deads are the heaviest pulling movement a human can do :P
Also same reason why doing a pull-up is easier to learn than doing a bodyweight OHP too, eventhough it involves virtually the exact same muscles.
Decline dumbbell press. My preference is push ups weighted, on gymnastic rings. Both these allow hands to move naturally, a bar locks them in place. But all movements end up suffering the same issues, repeated bout effect, adaptation. If you want to grow genuine muscle, the actual fibres, not just neural gains, not just sarcoplasm, it’s not the same as simply lifting heavier weights. Lifting heavier weights does not mean much if you are not actually adding to fibre size which can be used in real life, not just restricted gym displays. I agree squats are the king of exercises, but you have to work out how to avoid the repeated bout effect, adaptation, or you just end up lifting big weights without actually increasing fibre size for general use.
Military > Bench
Yup. Always have been and always will be. The Press is THE lift.
Powerlifters do the bench press because it’s one of the 3 competition lifts. Strongmen focus on the overhead press (and I seriously doubt they are doing that 4x a week), and put in the bench as an accessory (I believe they tend to focus more on incline rather than the flat bench as well).
Strongman use bench because the angles of pressing in many events such as log is close to an incline bench.
The reason those guys don't press 4x week is because they can press in the 300s lol. Press has a much lower recovery cost because it uses less weight overall, most people don't perform working sets on the press with 180 lol
@@TheFelipe10848 for the vast majority of people, they don't lift heavy enough and often enough, to worry much about their recovery lol. My son is a competitive SHW junior powerlifter who trains 5 to 6 days a week - he needs to worry about his recovery. Outside of top level competitors, the problem is usually poor form (why people are injuring their shoulders on the bench), poor programming (another reason), and not doing enough work overall. But that's okay, if you're not competing, who cares if you aren't always getting stronger?
@@TheFelipe10848 what you mean most people don't perform working sets with 180?
@@getstrongby4038 What I mean is most people use very little weight in the OHP compared to other lifts for it to be taxing. To perform working sets with 180 lbs one needs to able to lift arround 225 bs or more on the OHP, which is very advanced. You can bench that easily in your first year or two of lifting and you can squat or deadlift that in a few months or weeks of lifting. This means training the press overall is much lighter and doesn't strain the joints or taxes the CNS as much since your body is used to lifting much more weight, hence Rip's recommendation on performing it up to 4 times a week if you are specializing in it.
I'd much rather do weighted dips than the bench press.
Weighted dips are awesome
I used to hate benching till I learned how to do it properly, then my poundages went up, and my size.
This was a tremendously balanced take on this subject. I have very healthy shoulders and a chronically injured collarbone that prevents me from doing heavy presses so I'm happy to see the bench is effective at building upper body strength.
I prefer weighted dips over bench press. It is my main heavy press movement. Standing press on next workout.
i just see bench press as a tool to get stronger or if you have limited equipment. i dont care if its overrated, mainstream, or underrated.
Sadly, it is mainstream and overrated at the same time. Just an advice: do not bench to much because you will have ''chesticules''. Not a good look on a male with the shoulders rolling forward because the bench bros do not pull enough and especially do not press enough overhead to counterbalance muscular imbalances.
Dips is better so far as limited equipment goes.
You dont get floppy pecs from not doing bench press. You get floppy pecs from being fat. Doing shoulder work instead of benching will make you look bigger assuming you stay low body fat and keep your waist small. It will also make you stronger. Benching just makes you better at benching and when you stop working out its the first thing to lose strength because the body isnt built to have all that pec development.
No having high body fat and no pecs gives you floppy pecs. I love OH pressing but it'll never develop the pec major only minor which is not a good look
Pull up are the same, the first to lose strength
I think because BP and pullup are "aesthetics" exercises
Lol. Pull-ups are the no.1 exercise for the upper body. Dips are no.2. Bench with a bar is unnatural & causes pec tears & shoulder joint problems.
my pecs grow way too fast so I quit any chest excercises...good to see rip doesn't have a problem with this
I'm the opposite, mine doesn't grow that well, but am not bothered cause my back grows quite thick
Yeah same thats why i want to switch to press specialization or switch bench with incline
@@hadhad129 Good.Big chest on males are feminine lol. Not a good look. Broad shoulders, wide back, proportional arms (not too big), square pecs and a relative slim waist is the ideal. That V shape is masculine.
@@09thespecialone yeah just enough pecs to be there so they are not behind compared to the rest of the body. And ztrong enough so the pecs are mobilized but yeah once a week shoyld be enough and 4 times press sounds good. Yeah upper back thickness and width is the most important along with delts.
_"And ztrong enough so the"_
Vat are yoo saying? Yoo can never be ztrong enough!
True with the close grip my annoying shoulder pains are no more
What about doing weighted dips? Taking into account body weight, I find that I can press a lot more weight when dipping than any other pressing movement. I can use a much bigger rom too
That's basically what Olympic weight lifters due to build their press up. They tend to use dips, not bench press
I tore my rotor cuff doing BP about 4 years ago and it's never been the same since, amazing how much it hinders me in sports now, should have stuck to dumbells.
Or you should have had better form or gone up more reasonably in weight. The problem with strength lifting is that people always blame the exercise instead of themselves...
Starting Strength was a good program, i went to 5x5 after it. Loved it.
Still is.
I think the obsession with pecs has to do with superhero physiques in comics and movies.
Nope. In fact, the classic V shape with broad shoulders and square pecs of superheros is still the ideal male physique. And overhead pressing is still the gauge of someone strength. For example, Superman, the strongest of them with near infinite force, always press HEAVY shit overhead as a demonstration of raw strength. In fact, it has something to do with Weider. The dude is mostly responsible for the growth of bodybuilding in the US since the 70's. He was or he is (i do not know if he is still alive and i do not care) gay. He likes (or liked) ''big'' chest on males...
@thomas anderson Indeed.
It is and the fact that people want that V shape physique and you need fairly decent pecs and shoulders for that. I do practise bench press but I don't really enjoy the exercise and have found better development from other exercises personally.
@@gravemind6536 You do not press for shoulder development?
@@09thespecialone The bench press does work the anterior deltoid but not enough to be an effective way to develop your shoulders.
The only reason people like bench press is because they wanna destroy their shoulders
Can't forget about 'And tear your pectoralis major tendon off the bone!' Always a crowd pleasing favorite!
Need an entire video about floppy pecs.
Did rip just talk about toning?
I have shoulder issues and smith machine press with a small incline feels much better. I gonna try close grip bench next time
No, but only if you do 5 by 5 with hip thrust.
Damn.. What kind of camera is this dude using. Looks like friggin 4k but it's 1080p O.o..
Anyone? Is it mirrorless/dlsr? lol
For those who have no bench. Does the barbell floor press cover them????
Not really, mainly because you can only descend as much as you elbows allow you to. Maybe put some pads and rigid stuff under your back to increase the rom (damn i said it)
I’m floor pressing and ohp in quarantine but i make sure to add some pushups etc to hit the whole rom for the pecs... floor pressing has its place as assistance though, check T-Nation it has a good article about it (i discovered it today myself lol)
@@davidec.4021 I do the floor press more because i like it and I don't have a bench at my house. Of course I do regular bench and pushups for full rom
Floor press and some heavy floor pullovers will hit your chest real good. Throw in some dumbbell flys and get a good pump.
Dont overthink this... Floor press is fine.
@@steffenpetersen2103 You are right. I was !thinking! the same thing today. I should be a little more of a Do'er.
People like to hop on the bandwagon of hating on the bench press.
You must be new here.
CHERNOBYL STUDIOS not really honestly
Well really the bandwagon is the bench fanboys and gym-bros only caring about “how much can you bench bro?”
I’m not saying the bench is useless at all obviously, but in my opinion it has a disproportionate “weight” in training conversations. So the I feel like the bandwagon is the other way around
The bench press can simultaneously be overrated and useful. And it is.
people shouldn't over complicate it, just bench tbh (unless if it hurts you too much).
Floppy pecs! I love it.
as a novice i hate the bench press. it feels like my lift is constantly limited by my arms instead of my chest. it feels like bench press progress is doomed to be incredibly slow because of this unless you formerly were a high school athlete who trained weights or did manual labor to get strong arms. it takes forever for arms to grow.
Press builds boulder shoulders, makes you aesthetic
Yes.
I do clean and Press on thursdays but yesterday I did bench. Partials too. My whole body is sore. Even my biceps and lats. Had to go lite today on bent over rows. Went with the dumbbells. 15 reps.
Does power cleans destroy your upper back as well, or it's only a strenght and power exercise?
I always snap up my neck doing barbell OHP. My perception is that my form is decent. Dumbbells haven't injured me ever....I can't figure it out!
I experienced painful pinched nerves and ugly stiffness of the deep neck muscles with the press. Two adjustments worked for me. 1st issue was bar path, if the bar moves slightly forward you could overstretch and flex the trapezius at the same time, which killed me, this was typically on the 4th or 5th rep. So I switched to triples with absolutely perfect straight bar path, which worked well. 2nd reason was a tight neck before doing the press, which aggravated during/after the press. So I tried to some preparation to loose those muscles beforehand.
"I always snap up my neck doing barbell OHP."
and
"My perception is that my form is decent."
are not compatible statements.
I prefer dumbells usually because I can confidently train to failure and just drop the dumbells if it becomes too much, you can't do the same with the barbell on a bench press.
Probably a weak upper back and bad bar path
Your form is not correct if you always snap your neck 🤣
How can you press 4 days a week? When do your muscles recover?
How about incline only bench.
ull luk funny
It is better. The upper part of the chest will be developed. You will have that square look on your pecs. Square pecs are aesthetics and masculine.
@@09thespecialone Definitly better to hit your chest from angles than just the flat. I have found personally that the pec dec fly exercise is also very good for the chest and my personal favourite.
@@gravemind6536 Indeed.
The benchpress, in my opinion, has a greater danger than benefit compared to the press which works the pecs as well as provides more complete shoulder & core development while using a lighter weight so recovery is shorter.
The press doesn't make you as strong though. To be honest, unless you're already very strong, the bench press is superior.
@@murozman False, the press makes you insanely strong. If you can strict overhead press 300 lbs, you can bench 300 lbs but if you can bench 300 lbs you almost certainly cannot overhead press even 200 lbs
@@janoycresva276 You didn't understand my comment at all did you? To press 300lb you need a solid strength base. That base is developed by the bench press. This is precisely why Rip has the bench in his programme despite him believing the press is superior.
If you want upper body strength you need the bench. You don't necessarily need the press. The press is an effective full body exercise however, I'm not denying that.
@@murozman I did & your comment is wrong, to press overhead 300 you need to be strong & that can be developed only by overhead pressing. If you want upper body strength you need to press, you don’t need to bench because it’s a dangerous exercise that’s not as functional as the press. If you need more direct pec work, do incline dumbbell press instead.
@@janoycresva276 LOL there is nothing dangerous about the bench press and any good presser I have ever seen built the base strength with the bench.
Weighted Dips > Bench Press
th-cam.com/video/JT_S3yUHO74/w-d-xo.html
Only with very strict form which most struggle to do.
The only thing that is overrated is saying everything is overrated 24/7.
Can I swap out incline press for flat press?
I get no results from bench honestly haven't seen as much progress as I get from cables
The Olympic press is not so easy to learn well , but it is wonderfull in primis because the shoulders work with a wide, complete angle .
I dont bother benching. Already barrel chested, elbow keeps getting worn out, dont want to drag a bench around (my situation is unique) and what's 120 bucks for just 1 more excercise?
I still Bench but I don't do it much I just do a couple of sets on chest day to get my self warmed up ready for my other exercies that I prefer like you I am already barrel chested, my pecs are my best feature by far with my shoulders not far behind my arms really need to catch up a bit so I put more focus on my triceps now by doing lots of tricep extensions and tricep rope pushdowns. The single best exercise for chest development in my experience is the pec dec fly machine its the only exercise that has ever truly left my chest sore going into the next day I love it one of my favourite exercies and I'm really missing it during lockdown. I'm currently using 2 sets of dumbells and bodyweight exercises to maintain myself during lockdown and so far I've lost no size.
Flat bench press destroys shoulders
Wrong!!! Bad form destroys shoulders. Stop flaring your elbows out, stop lifting bodybuilding style. That's what does it.
@@sergeant1446 most people that have been lifting for a while will tell you that exercise is the reason for their shoulder issues.
@@Seanm-t1z Again its not what they're doing, but rather how they're doing it. Also most people don't know what the hell they're doing in the gym.
The bench press is superior to the press for precisely the reasons Rip gave. It makes you stronger. The press has strong technique demands, whereas the bench much less so. Bench > press as we are interested in developing overall strength here. The press is good though.
I can’t bench press because the ends of bench bar supports have hooks on them pointing upwards. Once I’m adding weight that is hard to handle and the shoulders are pushed back I can’t safely get the bar over these hooks! The next lower supports are almost at my chest and is @ very difficult start point once at a heavy weight. So, I use the smith machine and DB’s.
I prefer incline bench.. much easier on tht shoulder
My love bench press. I'm not very good at it but it's fun. I have a huge chest but I can't bench for a much it's weird.
I'm just the same its not for everyone especially those with long limbs and limited back flexibility clearly your pecs are not the weakness so it might be worth working on your shoulders and triceps more, if you are struggling to lock out its usually due to weak triceps. Another thing that will usually add 5-10% more on a bench is having a strong back, if you neglect your back you have a less stable base to press from I am speaking from personal experience and mistakes I made in my 1st year of training.
@@gravemind6536 for sure, but I think it's because of long arms I'm 6ft but my arms are over 6'1. I have decent arms though 17 inches with a pump so not bad and I've only trained 6 months of my life and I can bench 250. But I look like I could bench 350 lol
@@Caleb-lu3zl You are doing pretty well with arms that long with time you will most likely hit 350 just remember with arms that long a 250 Bench press is as good as a 300+ from someone with shorter arms.
@@gravemind6536 thank you man
Honestly if you hate any lift, you're probably just weak in it and dont want to take accountability in your weakness.
In the vast majority of cases you're certainly right and I'm not going to lie I hate the bench for that reason I'm so much better at other exercises so I do them. I look like I can bench loads of weight I ask people how much they genuinely think I can bench and they always guess 25-35kg more than I actually can and they are shocked when I tell them what I actually bench. I still do the bench press and hope to get better at it though but I think it will always just be one of those lifts I suck at. I know I can get a lot better though as my biggest weakness in the past was my grip strength and I have worked really hard on that and got to the point where it is no longer weak at all so I know I can do the same with my bench.
@@gravemind6536 You should press heavy. Your bench will AUTOMATICALLY go up (in my experience, the carryover is from the Press to the Bench Press, not the other way around).
I have experience with practically all the bodybuilding stuff regarding growing chest, and absolutely nothing has blown up my chest like simply progressively overloading a heavy normal barbell bench press
Could you explain why having a big chest is so much more important than having big legs, arms, back or shoulders...
@@SuperJackson4 It isn't, but that doesn't mean it should be neglected
Floor press is not only better for your Triceps, but is also safer for your shoulders, and your using only upper body strength to move the weight, no leg drive like during a bench press
Bench Press always feels unnatural, I just don't jive with the movement. Weighted dips and pushups on the other hand, now that's where it's at! So what if I can only push or dip the max on the vest or belt! In my experience, the overall benefits are vastly superior to using the bench press.
And as a solemn warning, the one and only exercise responsible for the vast majority of pectoral major tendon tears goes to....you guessed it! The Almighty Bench Press!
No thanks, you can keep it
Bro you small you dont have voice here to say what is good or bad
agian noob with no picture
I highly prefer weighted dips over the bench press. The bench press feels highly unnatural to me as there is a wall in your back pushing your shoulder in the wrong place. I know you need to have a tight back, but this doesn't feel very intuitive to me.
I amost guarentee those individuals with low bench numbers respectively are the ones who hate the bench.The Press is very hard and those numbers will be low, misery loves company.
Sooo, you don't want peace and happiness?
😂
Do some push ups first. Get to 50 then think about the bench. Why? I dont know.
Dips are superior to bench presses. Anyone that thinks you can't make them easier or thinks progressive overload is too difficult, hasn't actually given it much thought.
I always ranked bench press over the overhead press since bench works all the muscles that the overhead press does in addition to your chest.
See... I thought the same thing, too!
Nahh bench doesnt work your core and much less shoulder as well
@@DPMusicStudio OHP do work your upper pec and traps too bench press dont.
"press specialist" lol
What?
What do you do for a living,
I have a Ph.D in the press
@@hadhad129 Dr.Press!
He is right. Today, at the Gym, how many people do yo see pressing regularly HEAVY overhead? Very very few individuals...The Press is becoming a lost art. Why? Progress is very slow and the Press is the HARDEST lift. So, the easiest way is the bench...Only dedicated athletes and lifters are still pressing heavy overhead (even weightlifters since the Press was dropped as an OLY lift in 1972 do not press anymore lol...Believe it or not, some of today weightlifters can't even press BW lol...Just pathetic.)
For chest growth and the way Ripp teaches it yes very overrated about 20 better exercises for chest mass.
Pec Dec Fly all day long, I love that exercise the best chest growth I've experienced is from doing that exercise.
Yes, most oly lifters don’t bench…
Because bench isn't even a lift in olympic weightlifting. Why would they do it if it's no use to them. That's like saying powerlifters don't do snatch and cleans
The overhead press is overrated. Pushing yourself off the floor, and pushing something/someone away from you is very natural and useful. I almost never lift anything directly over my head. In sports (think football lineman or basketball center) the ability to push your opponent around is far more important than pushing a big weight over your head.
Lol you can push the opponent but there is no bench behind you .
@@Han-nk3io yep.
I find in real life, I never lie on the floor and lift things up. Hence, why the press is far better than a floor press 🤦🏿♂️
ولا بشار إسماعيل شو عم تساوي هون ولاك
Lol gotta love Rip
Its obvious Rip is not into bodybuilding or building muscle mass for the sake of gaining size, he is 100% into strength and that is about it. The man is so hard headed its his way or the highway.
Are you going to argue with him?
His book is called Starting Strength, not Starting Bodybuilding. He is about building strength, not about bodybuilding. Completely different
Why would I want to merely *look* strong when I could actually *be* strong?
It shouldn't come as a surprise that the strongest bodybuilders were also the best bodybuilders.
@@craigcrawford6749 Mass and strength are definitely correlated. You also need a base to strength train and that means you need muscle mass. Thats why their are weight classes in sports
Weighted pushups are superior for chest growth
As of my post, 12 cowards with thumbs down!
Bench press is overrated it doesn't help upper body strength at all
Bench press king of all execises .only an idiot would say Differnt.
No, it's the couch potato of all exercises.
LMAO, you think laying down is "king of all exercises". Ridiculous.
Not at all. Heavy squats or deadlifts require much more overall strength.
Its a good exercise but not king, that would be deadlift and then the squat.
The strict Press is.
No, but only if you do 5 by 5 with hip thrust.