After watching this video, I'm never going to perform a bad landing ever again. Whenever things don't go as planned, I'm just going to say: "I'm just trying to get a feel for the flight characteristics of this plane, right now..."
@@NOTAM1 I wasn't able to get a good look in the video, but there are no flaps on a kitfox, they are flaperons, I wasn't able to see if the ailerons both went down a little when you pulled the lever. The flaperons obviously span the entire wing, so the deflection might not appear very large. I'll let you know... bad or not, if it's got the Freedom fox livery I gotta get it. :) --edit--addon-- I got it for the price and the livery! :) Hope they fix it, and yeah sorry, I wasn't trying to imply anyone didn't know about flaperons. No movement on them at all when deploying flaperons. The glass is a serious problem... Thanks for the review, I really wanted it, and you set my expectations! Which is just what I needed. Cheers!
Out of all the defects, that is kinda no big deal. It has flaperons which only move very little.. but the bugged engine and not beeing able to lower RPMs enough for bushlandings (it idles at over 1000rpm) is such a fnn joke.
Great video, Have to say I am beginning to fall in love with low & slow in MSFS 2020. It is just so rewarding and the GA aircraft definitely have better performance,
I find it hard to believe the real thing hates the ground as much as this model. The take off is short but my landings so far consist of skimming the runway at zero throttle and full flaps for hundreds of yards at 6 inches while screaming “WHY WON’T YOU LAND”!
I am finding it fun to fly. One big plus is it trims out way easier than anything else I have flown so far. I have learned how to get the speed very low for landing but it seems impossible to stall out. Flaring just sends the thing back up into the sky. But will continue practicing. Sort out the view, the flaps and tweak the flight model a little and it might become one of my favourites.
David Traves Yep, I can get the speed down and cross the threshold at under 40 at 6 inches but a It’s just that last 6 inches, i think because the throttle won’t zero. But it’s fun to practice.
I do exactly experiment the same sensation: " When are you going to land..." To fix partially the problem, I forced the plane to touch the ground then brake enough to make it not to fly again! And try to make a 3 points landing... ouf... The good side: it forces us to be even better at landing short!!! Happy to see I was not alone to find the landing so hard to be short, even if I am not experienced in real plane, neither sim, neither RC.
Excellent review! Thank you very much! I bought it as you guessed and I am disappointed by the lack of drag from the flaps... but for 12$CDN, I did not expect as much. Hoping they will resolve the flaps/not slowing enough and windows isssues! Nice to have put the links of Trent Palmer, I am a big follower and his videos are probably the reason I did buy FS2020. I flew the Cub most of the time. Now you introduced me the Zlin... and I got the standard version.... lol
I didn't see it mentioned in the comments, but to fix the blurry windshield set the windshield effects to medium and it clears right up. Found this out on the creators thread on the x-plane org forum where they are discussing the fs2020 release. Hope this help some people until we see a patch.
And just a heads up, it was also noticed that if you start dark and cold you get far less rpms than if you start with engines running giving you far less power. Was confirmed by three different people so far.
There are two engine profiles being used. There's one that you get when you start from cold and dark which has no power. There's a second profile that has way too high RPM and no way to slow down the engine RPM if you start at the runway with the engine started or if you cheat start the engine with Ctrl E. Also, there's no fuel gauge. Also, there's no way to turn off the engine. Also, the tires don't have the shaders that show them semi-deflated the way all the other aircraft do, so the tires look like they are at 1000 psi. Also, the fuel pump has no effect on the fuel pressure. Also, the interior details are pretty poor. The rudder pedals aren't even attached to each other. There's no fuel indicator on the wing ends, so you have no idea how much fuel you have. There's no visible radio anywhere. Must be under the seat. Overall, this is an unfinished aircraft and model that's payware for some reason.
yeah, it is really weird that noone seems to notice that there is an engine bug: if you start cold and dark at max throttle the RPMs max out slightly above 1000, exactly in that range where the IDLE RPMs are lowest at 0%throttle if you start engine on. I mean for the price one could overlook some of the other quirks, but the engine thing is such a major deal breaker!
Don't get confused with the Rotax engines. 912 carburated= 80hp 912 IS = 100hp 914 is a Turbo = 115hp 915 is also turboed but with a bigger displacement = 141hp By the way, Trent used to have a big bore 912, with something between 110 - 120hp. That's the one that finally blew up. :P
I own a kitfox IV in real life and the flaps are not aggressive and not much use. I also fly other planes whose flaps are very effective for comparison.
I noticed that when your in the cockpit that the world looks blurry, like plexi glass or something. I can lean out and it gets clear so it's the "simulated" glass in game. Is that like that irl?
Check the history of Big Tire Simulations on the XPlane forums; he's known to disappear for a while without word; that alone has kept me away from the early bites when it was released on the xplaneorg store a few days after MSFS released; I've heard nothing but bad things there as well since release on both sides, XPlane and now here... Not good. I didn't even realize the flap issues existed in MSFS as well; as it's been a long-standing issue on the XPlane side since release too... At least the engine noises have been improved, they're incredibly awful in Xplane! Seeing this in MSFS makes me sad to see two G3X's on the dashboard, kind of an unusual setup. At the end of the day, it is indeed one developer, he buys his models, but is far too well known for disappearing, so take that as you will.
I haven't flown a kitfox, but I've been in many aircraft with plexi or lexan windows. Yes they are blurry, but not like this. They don't reduce the resolution. In fact brand new the plexi windows are just fine. They just get bad in the sun after use and scratches IMO.
Thanks Josh, yeah I didn't realize he updated his plane with the new engine and avionics when I did this. Was a few months (a year) behind on that aircraft. Thanks for the info.
I cannot get the glass screens to turn on. I have tried everything I can think of and still get nothing. To begin with I could turn them on but they have stopped working.
As an important note that I hope you bring up in the future, panels in aircraft vary from one to the next. No two aircraft that were built 50+ years ago or 51% built kit planes will have the same panel. You could have a Piper Cherokee 140 with a G1000 and loaded with GTN's and G5's, or you could have a six pack with a strike finder, etc... People that are only exposed to the sim world and those that don't explore or work on GA planes will have hard time understanding this concept because they're used to the airliners mostly all sharing the same glass cockpits between different carriers.
In planes like this or the Long EZ yes, will be different for every pilot. This plane (both liveries) were modeled after actual planes which I was familiar with both owners cockpits which Is why I may have mentioned it.
From what I read on flightsim.com about BT Studios (the ones who made this plane) there wont be any updates, what you see is what you get. When I first saw it it had 50 purchases and 2/5 stars. 319 purchases of the plane on FS2020 Marketplace as of right now, and still only 2/5 stars.
I enjoy flying the zlin. Especially if I’m looking around at the surrounding area like exploring the city where I live. It flies slow enough to make that really easy to do.
David Traves anytime my man I totally get what you mean the update a few hours ago seems to have sorted the sluggish yaw on landing which is a relief as it was starting to become annoying 👎🏻 look forward to the next one pal take it easy 👋🏻
David Traves ayee thanks my man I’m more of a 737 flyer over on Xplane once PMDG comes with the 737 I’ll be sure to buy that if only sims and pcs didn’t cost a bomb to fly aye 😂 I’ll be sure to be about for the next flight my man do you know what’s happening? 👨✈️
It’s really sad about this plane in the flight simulator because I bought it a long time ago and just a bit ago they downgraded it so now it uses the old gauges and the freedom fox livery has been removed. Super annoying.
Just tried out the Zlin from some remote dirt runway Africa (HTUS)...such fun flying low....not as easy to land as you suggest. Went head over heels a couple of times! More practice!
Ahh, I love the Zlin. Granted I have a lot of practice in tail-draggers... as tail draggers go the zlin is very forgiving, but tail draggers in general are a much different beast. Just some tips if you haven't gotten there yet. Once down (assuming you are close to stall speed), start to pull back on the stick to plant the rear wheel. You'll get a feel for it, you definitely don't want to get airborne again, but as you slow down you can increase more and more by pulling back to plant the rear wheel allowing you to brake harder. If done right you can homp pretty hard on the brakes.
I love the smaller planes and have enjoyed it, especially the Freedomfox livery. Took it all the way to it's 25,000 max. It took a while to get there didn't seem very powerful. The blurry in the cockpit glass is kinda weird. If it's like that irl....yuk
I think you are right. If you start on the runway it will be moving at zero throttle, you have to set the brake. This could be the entire landing problem. The throttle is bugged.
The flaps not being modelled is a real red flag for me. The graphical fidelity of the model overall, looks very lacking as well, something like a late placeholder texture.
Kind of weird that you missed the engine RPMs in the review: spawn with engine on, idle is lowest at 1000ish, spawn with engine off and full throttle tops out at 1000ish.. so either no bush landings because the plane won´t slow down or underpower deluxe. Then then there are some wrong wired switches.. with so few, that is an achievement.
Well that is the risk of releasing a review first and within hours of its release. There are no maps or the benefit of dozens of posts on forums and other reviewers to guide you. I'm guessing it wasn't you who literally discovered this, Nor did I. The first mention of the fuzzy view and problems slowing down however started here. It wasn't until a few days later that the reason behind the difficulty was mentioned as you commented. Such are the consequences of taking risks and being first.
The Zlin has a turbocharger. You arm it by lifting the switch-cover on the right of the panel and flipping the switch. The Kitfox, unfortunately, revs too high on idle. It will creep forward when on the ground with no brakes set.
@@NOTAM1 Odly enough, since I posted, Microsoft have issued a patch removing the turbo switch from the panel, so the first version had a turbo and the patched one has it removed. What I don't understand, is why there is a Caution Light constantly illuminated in the Shock Ultra even when all the avaionics and main battery are switched off and the Mags are also in the off position.
@@NOTAM1 If you really want to try it I can send you a file with the original Zlin configuration. I was tinkering with it, so I still have a copy that works :)
To me the problem is that it's too close to what a default aircraft to be interesting, reusing default gauges, pretty uninspiring level of detail, lacking animations. Back in the FS2004/FSX days, this would be a freeware. I get that the higher graphics pretty much killed the quality freeware scene, but still.
@@NOTAM1 yeah you are right! I was in My Hanger and the freedom fox livery wasn't showing up there. Kinda weird. Fun plane, hope they fix the flaperons and the windscreen.
Something wrong with that planes aerodynamics....no way it should keep on rolling like that...dissapointing that default aircraft are better than a payware release
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 78 | คู่เอก "ปกรณ์ vs ฟาบิโอ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LSOmgl0Th2c/mqdefault.jpg)
After watching this video, I'm never going to perform a bad landing ever again. Whenever things don't go as planned, I'm just going to say: "I'm just trying to get a feel for the flight characteristics of this plane, right now..."
@@NOTAM1 Yes, I very much appreciate your video. I hope everyone will understand I was merely joking!
Huge ding that flaps are not modeled.
@@NOTAM1 I wasn't able to get a good look in the video, but there are no flaps on a kitfox, they are flaperons, I wasn't able to see if the ailerons both went down a little when you pulled the lever. The flaperons obviously span the entire wing, so the deflection might not appear very large. I'll let you know... bad or not, if it's got the Freedom fox livery I gotta get it. :)
--edit--addon-- I got it for the price and the livery! :) Hope they fix it, and yeah sorry, I wasn't trying to imply anyone didn't know about flaperons. No movement on them at all when deploying flaperons. The glass is a serious problem... Thanks for the review, I really wanted it, and you set my expectations! Which is just what I needed. Cheers!
Out of all the defects, that is kinda no big deal. It has flaperons which only move very little.. but the bugged engine and not beeing able to lower RPMs enough for bushlandings (it idles at over 1000rpm) is such a fnn joke.
its been updated
Great video, Have to say I am beginning to fall in love with low & slow in MSFS 2020. It is just so rewarding and the GA aircraft definitely have better performance,
I find it hard to believe the real thing hates the ground as much as this model. The take off is short but my landings so far consist of skimming the runway at zero throttle and full flaps for hundreds of yards at 6 inches while screaming “WHY WON’T YOU LAND”!
I am finding it fun to fly. One big plus is it trims out way easier than anything else I have flown so far. I have learned how to get the speed very low for landing but it seems impossible to stall out. Flaring just sends the thing back up into the sky. But will continue practicing. Sort out the view, the flaps and tweak the flight model a little and it might become one of my favourites.
David Traves Yep, I can get the speed down and cross the threshold at under 40 at 6 inches but a It’s just that last 6 inches, i think because the throttle won’t zero. But it’s fun to practice.
I do exactly experiment the same sensation: " When are you going to land..." To fix partially the problem, I forced the plane to touch the ground then brake enough to make it not to fly again! And try to make a 3 points landing... ouf... The good side: it forces us to be even better at landing short!!!
Happy to see I was not alone to find the landing so hard to be short, even if I am not experienced in real plane, neither sim, neither RC.
Kill the flaps for Trent's sake!
Excellent review! Thank you very much! I bought it as you guessed and I am disappointed by the lack of drag from the flaps... but for 12$CDN, I did not expect as much. Hoping they will resolve the flaps/not slowing enough and windows isssues!
Nice to have put the links of Trent Palmer, I am a big follower and his videos are probably the reason I did buy FS2020. I flew the Cub most of the time. Now you introduced me the Zlin... and I got the standard version.... lol
I didn't see it mentioned in the comments, but to fix the blurry windshield set the windshield effects to medium and it clears right up. Found this out on the creators thread on the x-plane org forum where they are discussing the fs2020 release. Hope this help some people until we see a patch.
And just a heads up, it was also noticed that if you start dark and cold you get far less rpms than if you start with engines running giving you far less power. Was confirmed by three different people so far.
There are two engine profiles being used. There's one that you get when you start from cold and dark which has no power. There's a second profile that has way too high RPM and no way to slow down the engine RPM if you start at the runway with the engine started or if you cheat start the engine with Ctrl E. Also, there's no fuel gauge. Also, there's no way to turn off the engine. Also, the tires don't have the shaders that show them semi-deflated the way all the other aircraft do, so the tires look like they are at 1000 psi. Also, the fuel pump has no effect on the fuel pressure. Also, the interior details are pretty poor. The rudder pedals aren't even attached to each other. There's no fuel indicator on the wing ends, so you have no idea how much fuel you have. There's no visible radio anywhere. Must be under the seat. Overall, this is an unfinished aircraft and model that's payware for some reason.
yeah, it is really weird that noone seems to notice that there is an engine bug: if you start cold and dark at max throttle the RPMs max out slightly above 1000, exactly in that range where the IDLE RPMs are lowest at 0%throttle if you start engine on. I mean for the price one could overlook some of the other quirks, but the engine thing is such a major deal breaker!
I bought it for one single reason: Testing the marketplace. Extra bonus: if it gets fixed, I've got a nice plane for a pretty much unbeatable price.
Don't get confused with the Rotax engines.
912 carburated= 80hp
912 IS = 100hp
914 is a Turbo = 115hp
915 is also turboed but with a bigger displacement = 141hp
By the way, Trent used to have a big bore 912, with something between 110 - 120hp.
That's the one that finally blew up. :P
Thanks e36, good info.
He only got the 915 because he didn't want to risk another failed takeoff
Imagine being Trent Palmer with his awesome life to then have your actual plane on the worlds newest and best simulator! Not jealous of him at all..
Yeah really... I've had worse good dreams than he's living it seems.
I own a kitfox IV in real life and the flaps are not aggressive and not much use. I also fly other planes whose flaps are very effective for comparison.
I noticed that when your in the cockpit that the world looks blurry, like plexi glass or something. I can lean out and it gets clear so it's the "simulated" glass in game. Is that like that irl?
So would you say this model reflect well enough the real one?
Thanks for such a thorough review. I've been on the fence about buying this plane. I think I'll definitely wait to see if the developer fixes it.
Check the history of Big Tire Simulations on the XPlane forums; he's known to disappear for a while without word; that alone has kept me away from the early bites when it was released on the xplaneorg store a few days after MSFS released; I've heard nothing but bad things there as well since release on both sides, XPlane and now here... Not good.
I didn't even realize the flap issues existed in MSFS as well; as it's been a long-standing issue on the XPlane side since release too...
At least the engine noises have been improved, they're incredibly awful in Xplane!
Seeing this in MSFS makes me sad to see two G3X's on the dashboard, kind of an unusual setup.
At the end of the day, it is indeed one developer, he buys his models, but is far too well known for disappearing, so take that as you will.
I learnt in one, and gota say the windshield are this blurry IRL. :-)
I haven't flown a kitfox, but I've been in many aircraft with plexi or lexan windows. Yes they are blurry, but not like this. They don't reduce the resolution. In fact brand new the plexi windows are just fine. They just get bad in the sun after use and scratches IMO.
Thats clearly a VR aeroplane, so much viewage - if they fix the plastic windshields (just watched it to the end)
thx for the detailed review
Trent's airplane has G3X -- which is what that is supposed to represent
Thanks Josh, yeah I didn't realize he updated his plane with the new engine and avionics when I did this. Was a few months (a year) behind on that aircraft. Thanks for the info.
I cannot get the glass screens to turn on. I have tried everything I can think of and still get nothing. To begin with I could turn them on but they have stopped working.
My instrument panel doesn't work on the Kitfox. I have no idea why.
It would be useful if you took the Fox out of the hanger so we were not looking at a black instrument panel....although it shows up later...
As an important note that I hope you bring up in the future, panels in aircraft vary from one to the next. No two aircraft that were built 50+ years ago or 51% built kit planes will have the same panel. You could have a Piper Cherokee 140 with a G1000 and loaded with GTN's and G5's, or you could have a six pack with a strike finder, etc... People that are only exposed to the sim world and those that don't explore or work on GA planes will have hard time understanding this concept because they're used to the airliners mostly all sharing the same glass cockpits between different carriers.
In planes like this or the Long EZ yes, will be different for every pilot. This plane (both liveries) were modeled after actual planes which I was familiar with both owners cockpits which Is why I may have mentioned it.
From what I read on flightsim.com about BT Studios (the ones who made this plane) there wont be any updates, what you see is what you get.
When I first saw it it had 50 purchases and 2/5 stars.
319 purchases of the plane on FS2020 Marketplace as of right now, and still only 2/5 stars.
So I hope another studio will make the "Trent Palmer approved version"
@@luke_atthat Yeah now its over 600 purchases and still 2/5 stars meaning no fixes.
I enjoy flying the zlin. Especially if I’m looking around at the surrounding area like exploring the city where I live. It flies slow enough to make that really easy to do.
Zlin is one of the best in this category IMO. Quality aircraft.
Fantastic review pal really enjoyed it as I’m getting more into props this helped to see some different types I haven’t used as I fly the liners ha 👋🏻
David Traves anytime my man I totally get what you mean the update a few hours ago seems to have sorted the sluggish yaw on landing which is a relief as it was starting to become annoying 👎🏻 look forward to the next one pal take it easy 👋🏻
David Traves ayee thanks my man I’m more of a 737 flyer over on Xplane once PMDG comes with the 737 I’ll be sure to buy that if only sims and pcs didn’t cost a bomb to fly aye 😂 I’ll be sure to be about for the next flight my man do you know what’s happening? 👨✈️
Are the issues with flaps and windshield transparency fixed now?
It’s really sad about this plane in the flight simulator because I bought it a long time ago and just a bit ago they downgraded it so now it uses the old gauges and the freedom fox livery has been removed. Super annoying.
Brilliant review. Appreciate the detailed look as I've been on the fence about buying this.
Whete did u get the plane from i cant find it in the market
Thanks for the detailed review. Could you tell me the name of the airport with the yellow crane?
Thank's so much!
Just tried out the Zlin from some remote dirt runway Africa (HTUS)...such fun flying low....not as easy to land as you suggest. Went head over heels a couple of times! More practice!
Ahh, I love the Zlin. Granted I have a lot of practice in tail-draggers... as tail draggers go the zlin is very forgiving, but tail draggers in general are a much different beast. Just some tips if you haven't gotten there yet. Once down (assuming you are close to stall speed), start to pull back on the stick to plant the rear wheel. You'll get a feel for it, you definitely don't want to get airborne again, but as you slow down you can increase more and more by pulling back to plant the rear wheel allowing you to brake harder. If done right you can homp pretty hard on the brakes.
@@NOTAM1 thanks for the tip, was not expecting that! Thank you very much. 🙂🙂🙂👍👍👍
I love the smaller planes and have enjoyed it, especially the Freedomfox livery. Took it all the way to it's 25,000 max. It took a while to get there didn't seem very powerful. The blurry in the cockpit glass is kinda weird. If it's like that irl....yuk
Seems like you gotta listen to Trent and spoil your lift before touchdown
Is something wrong with the throttle on this model? I want to buy it, but it looks like the throttle won’t throttle down fully ???
I think you are right. If you start on the runway it will be moving at zero throttle, you have to set the brake. This could be the entire landing problem. The throttle is bugged.
Wow, what computer are you using?! I love the graphic settings and it doesnt look like it diminishes performence!
3900x/64gb 3200 ram/Gen 4 Nvme/2080ti Believe it or not, it still hurts sometimes.
to be fair the kitfox has flaparons, ailerons and flaps combined so its probably hard to model that in game
It shouldn't be. Canards maybe, Elevons... ok... but flaperons are pretty standard stuff.
This model was updated and they fixed some of these issues.
Yes they have, although the most glaring issues still persist.
The flaps not being modelled is a real red flag for me. The graphical fidelity of the model overall, looks very lacking as well, something like a late placeholder texture.
I hope the dev's fix it. Its idle's too high. and doesnt have mags etc. The flap leaver should be on an analog input (like the real things lol)
@@NOTAM1 Thx for the info :) looking forward to the Trend Palmer approved one :)
@@WarpedSpace That is exactly what I would like: a Trent Palmer approved version! I would pay 50$CDN for it for sure!
Kind of weird that you missed the engine RPMs in the review: spawn with engine on, idle is lowest at 1000ish, spawn with engine off and full throttle tops out at 1000ish.. so either no bush landings because the plane won´t slow down or underpower deluxe. Then then there are some wrong wired switches.. with so few, that is an achievement.
Well that is the risk of releasing a review first and within hours of its release. There are no maps or the benefit of dozens of posts on forums and other reviewers to guide you. I'm guessing it wasn't you who literally discovered this, Nor did I. The first mention of the fuzzy view and problems slowing down however started here. It wasn't until a few days later that the reason behind the difficulty was mentioned as you commented. Such are the consequences of taking risks and being first.
The Zlin has a turbocharger. You arm it by lifting the switch-cover on the right of the panel and flipping the switch. The Kitfox, unfortunately, revs too high on idle. It will creep forward when on the ground with no brakes set.
@@NOTAM1 Odly enough, since I posted, Microsoft have issued a patch removing the turbo switch from the panel, so the first version had a turbo and the patched one has it removed. What I don't understand, is why there is a Caution Light constantly illuminated in the Shock Ultra even when all the avaionics and main battery are switched off and the Mags are also in the off position.
@@NOTAM1 If you really want to try it I can send you a file with the original Zlin configuration. I was tinkering with it, so I still have a copy that works :)
@@NOTAM1 Yes, that's a good plan :)
Does anyone know if its true that the developers didn't get permission to use the freedomfox skin, and that the asset model was stolen?
I don't know about the asset model being stolen, but I have heard the rumors that he hasn't been given permission for the freedomfox brand.
To me the problem is that it's too close to what a default aircraft to be interesting, reusing default gauges, pretty uninspiring level of detail, lacking animations. Back in the FS2004/FSX days, this would be a freeware. I get that the higher graphics pretty much killed the quality freeware scene, but still.
I agree with every one of your points here.
Side slip if the won't come down
Your 2 main issues are fixed now, flaps and windshield.
Still a big issue remaining, too much RPM on idle.
That is good to know. I'll have to check it out again, thanks.
@@NOTAM1 Flaps work visually, but aparently still limited to 6º, I think that must fixed too.
How do you get the freedom fox livery?
@@NOTAM1 yeah you are right! I was in My Hanger and the freedom fox livery wasn't showing up there. Kinda weird. Fun plane, hope they fix the flaperons and the windscreen.
Low rpm too high. I shut off the engine to land.
Something wrong with that planes aerodynamics....no way it should keep on rolling like that...dissapointing that default aircraft are better than a payware release
I got this plane and it’s busted a big pice of shit all my other planes work but not the I pay for
Imagine being a fox 🦊
12:34 That does it for me. It is a No for now, I am not buying it.
Model is very inaccurate. Some very large issues with proportions and detais. Shame :(
Please… make it available to Xbox.
1year later, better but still sucks. WASTE OF MONEY