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If I'm not mistaken I think scarlet witch's accent change was quasi explained in Wanda Vision, I don't remember if it was the commentary of a character or a TH-cam video but I think there's a decision in her vocal performance in certain parts of an episode or episodes of the show that suggest a particular explanation of why her accent subconscious changes
That movie scared me as a kid badly lol. Remember owning it in vhs and being scared to even look at it. Kept remembering that laughing scene in the bat cave
Yeah he probably goes and changes his look just to mess with the people of Gotham like is that joker or not you can’t know if he’s always changing his look
Some other takes on Batman in other mediums ironically may imply some answers; one common one is that the Joker only has white skin, and has naturally black hair and white lips (see Telltale Batman). Usually he will dye his hair green and wear red lipstick in these cases to "complete the look". This doesnt fully jive with certain things (do the laughing fish have red lips or did they lipstick them all up?) but its feasible he just decides to not dye his hair green here or wear his lipstick.
I like how, with Clayface, it doesn't matter how few or many changes they made to him, it could all be explained as "...Dude's a shapeshifter. He just wanted to look like that."
I've always enjoyed the Arkham Knight explanation that Croc's body mutates further as a result of trauma he sustains. So the more injured he gets his body regenerates to be more beast like. Leading to him being experimented on in prison and mutating into a 20 foot tall upright walking crocodile and looking a lot less human then his Arkham Asylum or City appearances.
It'd be cool if we ever get something that confirms this is how it works in DCAU too, the set up is there given his last BTAS appearance. It's a good concept and I want to see it used more 👍
The Scarecrow change could be explained by him using just a little bit of his fear toxin or something, so that he would always appear scarier than he actually does
I always just assumed he kept changing the costume every so often, because if he keeps the same outfit for long periods of time, people will start to slowly get use to it, getting rid of some of that fear, and changes his attire to keep the fear train going.
@@misterbiscuit3706there is a theory that Scarecrow was convicted of a murder and sentenced to death by hanging and the noose snapped and he somehow escaped thinking he was dead and was a ghost. That would explain why he is much calmer and less dramatic as he just doesn’t care about life anymore since he believes he's already dead
I think the Mr. Freeze redesign with the harsher cheekbones makes him seem more evil, whereas the original with the rounder face and the goggles give him a slightly softer appearance and works better for a more tragic story
I agree, he does appear more menacing But what's the explanation of him losing the goggles and just giving him red eyes? When out of the suit his eyes were normal
@@CrSnds I don't know, I prefer the goggles because they bring to mind "mad scientist", which is what Fries pretty much is. Only mad for love. I definitely agree with their decision to remove his eyebrows though, they looked fine in the design if you didn't think about it, but really if his hair fell out of his frozen scalp he shouldn't retain eyebrows either
@@CrSnds If he's kept cold then any water in the air would immediately turn into frost when it touches his helmet. What if the goggles allow him to see through the frost. Since he needs to be cold all the time he can't use a defrosting system like in a car.
True, but the change does help sell that Mr Freeze has become more of a villain, which fits with his storyline throughout his BTAS and TNBA episodes, but i do agree that i prefer his "softer" look, however i feel the change to sharper angles and less emphasis on his human-aspects with his design were atleast somewhat intentional, not 100% sure but i like to think they did it intentionally to sort of show the shift of Mr Freeze turning into a "proper" villain with a "heart of ice"
That's the point of the redesign. He's supposed to appear more evil because he has no other feeling left but to cause pain onto others as the pain he has been given living as long as he does with his condition and knowing that a healthy, lively Nora has found someone else.
In their words they were always changing his design even during BTAS because he "wasn't scary enough". Well they definitely met their goal for him when they got to TNBA.
Poison Ivy’s redesign was the only one that ever made any sense to me. She’s an evolving plant and her body is mutating. Makes sense. Still prefer the old, but the new looks great too.
My main problem with both her and Catwoman as far as redesigns go is that they just appear too young, as earlier in the series they are clearly at least in their 30's but after the redesign you could think they were the same age as both Supergirl and Batgirl when in actuality they are between ten and twenty-five years older.
I love the Batman Beyond movie that redesigned Joker with the mashup of both former designs, really bringing a perfect look together, and that design is what ended up being used in the Justice League/JLU series. I’m glad you brought it up, because so many people never mention it.
I've always have a soft spot for TNBA Catwoman's look mostly because of how it really evokes the Batman returns Catwoman. Also agreed that Scarecrow really got a massive upgrade for the better.
Scarecrow just seems to always be prime material for rapid design changes. For example, although it was mostly just graphical limitations and time between entries, the Arkham Games had Scarecrow go from 'Halloween themed acid trip muppet' to 'actual threat zombie serial killer' despite the joker and the other rogues staying mostly the same but with better models/textures.
Even his voice and entire personality are different. In Asylum he’s crazy but more playful like in the animated series. In Knight, he has a stone cold demeanor and sounds like… how he looks. Zombie serial killer works, I think the grim reaper after being tortured by the devil makes sense as well. Great VA performance from John Noble who was Denethor in LotR.
I actually quite like all the designs for joker. I think the black eyes, while not traditional, fit the aesthetic they were going for with that version and made a really iconic design for him. You can basically look at the eyes and know exactly what show he was made in and i kinda like that about it cause it gives the show a sort of charm when it comes to him. Its still uniquely the joker and sure theres no in universe reason for it but, it just feels right for it to me
They never explained why Scarlet Witch lost her accent, but did directly call attention to it during WandaVision. I think we’re just meant to assume she lost her accent over time by spending years with the Avengers in America and watching so many American sitcoms in her free time. The Sokovian accent still leaks through on occasion, like in Doctor Strange 2, where she’s particularly angry.
She had an accent in WandaVision as well, when she left her TV world and confronted the military after she finds the drone. Her accent (which had been missing while in her TV world) was on full display in the “real” world. I think her idealized version of herself doesn’t have it, which is why it’s missing in situations where she’s in control and/or not agitated/provoked.
@@CaptainMcKayRandom Which actually makes sense, because real people who work to hide their accents are also more likely to slip back into them when they're stressed and have less control.
I find the concept of SW losing her accent baffling. Her home country’s capital city was dropped from the sky, her nation in ruins; you think she’d hyper fixate on what little Sokovia she has left. But no, she dumps her accent. Its like a 9/11 first responder going to a speech coach to get rid of their NY accent. That’s just an icky sentence right there
i saw the thumbnail for a few seconds in my periphery on my home page and thought it was a picture of joker and it said "LIKE MEN" and though "huh that would be an interesting redesign of him"
The Scarlet Witch thing: They don't exactly "explain it" but they do lampshade it in WandaVision and imply her accent comes back when she's stressed or mad. So I guess the accent is to try and "fit in" but when she's pissed she doesn't find it necessary anymore and the accent comes back
The "resurrected" Joker's reveal in Return of the Joker suggests that in the "black eyes" design he simply had his eyes perpetually obscured by shadow.
Scarlet Witch lost her accent slowly over time. I've heard of some people adopting an American accent after living here for a while, so the fact that she changes her dialect over the course of a few years makes sense to me
It is possible it's happened to me. I knew only Spanish growing up and when I started learning English I had a strong accent. But over the years it went away. It comes back at times though
My head canon is that she has spent a lot of time with Natasha who taught her how to hide her natural accent so she could pass easily for being an American thus not drawing any specific attention to herself seeing as they were being pursued after Age of Ultron.
I don't mind the character redesigns as much as I did the setting. I loved that weird out of time feel to Batman TAS that made it stand out as a series that could have happened at any point between the 40s and the 90s. I've seen a few videos of yours, but this is the one that made me subscribe. You're pretty good
Well, ignoring the futuristic inventions like the freeze gun and the various crazy chemicals. Heck, one episode featured a gadget that could slow down someone's perception of time!
@@Compucles And with the above average use of time travel in later storylines, looks like Dr. Wakati's work did come to the public fold successfully, if a bit niche at first. Am surprised that he didn't have a role in Static Shock though, what with the time travelling Timezone there.
For Penguin I much preferred the more human look they gave him in TNBA as opposed to the Danny DeVito design they gave him in BTAS. He looked significantly more sophisticated and I could totally buy someone like him being the owner of the Iceberg Lounge whereas I can't see the Animated Series Penguin pulling something like that off.
While nearly everyone else was a downgrade in some form or another, I do think Penguin's TNBA design was a vast improvement. But I always was more a fan of the classic Penguin look as opposed to the more monstrous versions born from, or inspired by, Batman Returns.
@@FancifulDancingStar Batgirl, Scarecrow and Harley Quinn also looked better in TNBA. I also preferred Catwoman's TNBA look. I was never a fan of the long blonde hair and gray suit for Catwoman (and in general them making her a wealthy socialite and an activist really didn't work for me). I really liked the short dark hair and all-black suit which made her look more seductive and kind of sinister in a cool way.
I had the same theory of Riddler pulling out his hair in his frustration of trying to figure out how Batman escaped the death trap in "Riddler's Reform." I'm overjoyed to hear you independently consider the same possibility!
Gotta say, really love the look of -TNAB- TNBA Joker. For all the departure of his established looks bookending him, he still has the vibe, the motion, and perhaps the lack of lip-shine makes him less gaudy (or grotesque), and more coolly unnerving. I like it, and think it's a "worthy chapter in the Batman mythos."
They butchered his look, completely removing 2 of his most iconic features. The whole point is that he looks like a clown, yet they ditched the green hair and red lips
I actually liked the original Penguin design, something about such a sophisticated and classic voice coming out of a grotesque and macabre guy was an interesting contrast
Another production reason for the re-design was a result of Fox's late order of an additional 13 episodes during their run of the series. When painting is done by hand, paints have to be ordered in batches, and minor shade differences have to be ordered since each animation cell placed above an image alters the colors beneath it. The animation company assigned for Fox's final 13 episodes of Batman had just recently finished a run of the Plucky Duck Show, and had gone through most of their dark green, which meant they had none left over for the shading of Robin's sleeves and tights. That's why the green parts of Robin's design in those final episodes had a weird blue shading to them. Color shading of TNBA and Superman TAS was done with the entire production in mind to avoid making that error again.
With Croc I always thought his mutation thing just went further. Just like in the Arkham games universe, Croc in Arkham Knight is much more reptilian than he was in Arkham Asylum. Also, for Scarlett Witch, it was kind of explained that she didn't have it in her TV world so she fit in better but when she stepped out of the TV world to confront the military trying to get into it she had her accent again.
I actually really love the explanation of just seeing things through a different lens. It adds a lot of creative potential for an animated franchise. If an aspect of a redesign is important for story or character reasons than the show can point it out to communicate that, but then if it doesn’t then you can just chock it up to a reinterpretation of design and nothing more. I think that’s pretty fun and makes the changes much easier to enjoy. Also, as always, great video. Now I’m just waiting for you guys to pitch an elseworlds comic where Mr. Wing has to put together a ragtag group of C and D list villains to help break the Penguin out of Arkham. For lack of a better name I’ll throw out “one flew over the penguin’s nest” for now
Honestly as a kid I never really noticed the drastic changes between BTAS & TNBA. But I agree both shows are some of the best forms of Batman media and really got me into DC Comics.
I think a key reason the BTAS art style worked so well for that show was that it took major inspiration from Art Deco design principles. This allowed somewhat streamlined character designs without many detailed textures, but dynamic color choices and the painted style of animation gave it richness despite the minimalism, much like classic Art Deco posters. This also perfectly paralleled the deeply Deco design of Gotham City, and matched the Detective Noir tone and storytelling of many episodes.
I was always confused why these redesigns occurred, and I do really like some of them. Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, and Catwoman are some of my favorites. I appreciate you making this video! It really cleared things up for me. :)
With Mad Hatter I remember being surprised the first time I saw him in the Animated Series by how tall they made him. When I first saw him in the comics I remember him being much shorter but I guess that's something they took inspiration for from the imposter Mad Hatter form the comics, who was taller and had a big moustache. I always figured that his redesign for TNBA was them making him more accurate to the comic version.
I absolutely love Poison Ivy’s and Scarecrow’s redesign’s. And at first I didn’t mind Joker’s redesign but after a few years Im not a big fan of it anymore.
What they did for Catwoman kinda always made sense to me. She's a criminal, a cat themed one, so her costume being as dark as black cat's fur so not to be easily seen seemed smart to me. Like, something she would actually do. It's not my favourite one by any means, I always loved the details of previous adaptations of the comics, but I think it makes sense.
Killer Croc's design change is indeed a result of his mutation. I don’t recall where it’s explained, but essentially when he takes heavy damage, such as Bane breaking Croc's body, his body aggressively mutates further while repairing the damage he takes, resulting in his appearance becoming more reptilian. This even extends to the games where he ends up growing a full on tail, and gets absolutely massive, as in he’s like twelve to thirteen feet tall, built like a brick shithouse, and can pretty casually tear through reinforced steel doors. What’s unclear, at least to my knowledge, is whether his condition is also dangerous to him, as in the games he starts to physically degrade, like he starts to fall apart, which might be due to his cells not being able to withstand being mutated, and so they start to die out, leading to his physical and mental degradation during the Arkham games.
@@bencarlson4300 Nah, Bane turned out the way he did because he abused venom. He was already damn near inhumanly strong alongside being just as smart as Batman to begin with, but then he took a dose of venom and everything started to fall apart after that.
Actually, I loved almost all of the redesigns. Especially Ivy, she hit all the right buttons for me! 😍 I didn’t care for the Riddler and Catwoman redesigns, but thought the rest were awesome.
The New Batman Adventures designs are hit or miss, but I do prefer Mad Hatter's re design. His small and frail physic can be seen as non threatening, but that can be used to his advantage. People underestimate how much of a threat he can be and his TNBA appearance really captures that for me. Also I like that he looks like a little rat man lol.
There's a lot about TNBA's art style I love. The batsuit, especially, with the darker grays and blacks, and no oval around the bat symbol, and the angular cowl. The red night skies of Gotham is equal bits striking as it is haunting. There's a lot to love about this specific look of the Batman mythos that I feel has been abandoned or not referenced as much recently. Glad y'all made this a video!
You know what is the problem with TNBA? This is simple : BTAS is based around the principle that all Batman universe elements are humans and are only simple persons transformed into monsters by Fate. What makes Batman from BTAS interesting is that he is just a middle-aged guy in a weird Halloween costume with compassion, what is interesting in BTAS is that Poison ivy is only a beautiful woman with compassionate green eyes, while her TNBA design is just… non-human (I know they retconned in the comics to explain this shitty design, but it’s still bad). Croc in BTAS is just a mutated little guy, situation which makes him Interesting in some episodes, while his TNBA design is a biped crocodile, destroying all of humanity. Even the Scarecrow (the TNBA design that everyone loves) is a complete disaster because Jonathan Crane, the simple human, has no more face, with only a monstrous one having no plot sense. Mr Freeze is an insult towards the original character, etc… And this is a same thing plot-wise : they destroyed everything making BTAS interesting for some stupid episodes. And I know that people will cry "But bro, Over The Edge, Mad Love, etc…. they were soooo good! How can you say that?", but (1) these episodes are overrated (Judgment Day is just a bad version of the BTAS episode Second Chance with less subtlety, TNBA adaptation of Mad Love deleted some narrative parts of the original comic making it un-logical, Over The Edge and Legends of the Dark Knights are what-ifs and so don’t count). (2) Did you all forget the talking Goat, the robotic insects, the evil Freeze, or the billionaire Joker episode ? Or can we talk about how the episode "Old Wounds" is the worst episode of the entirety of DCAU without any debate (the numbers of stupid retcons and OOC moments…). No, but seriously, for one good episode, you have three shitty, while in BTAS, there is only one bad episode (Batgirl Returns) and like 40 good. (3) Why should I accept a bad sequel just for three really interesting episodes?
What I keep coming back to is that TNBA doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's the same art style as Superman, Batman Beyond, and JLU. I think the look only improved, esp. by JLU.
My personal opinion on each of the redesigns... Joker: Never really had a problem with his more cartoonish TNBA design as a kid, but I can definitely see why it was never too popular with the fans and considered too much of a downgrade, especially with him missing his iconic red lips (the inverted eye color is still an interesting take on his design though). His second redesign for Return of the Joker and Justice League certainly addressed the issues that were had with his TNBA design by bringing him closer to how he originally looked on BTAS, and while I'd consider that my next favorite Joker design I'd still say that I like his original BTAS design best when it was being animated as consistently good as in Mask of the Phantasm. Winner: BTAS, followed by ROTJ and JL. Harley Quinn/Two-Face: Barely changed between series aside from being drawn a bit more angular than before, so no real opinion worth mentioning. Penguin: Will always have a soft spot for his Danny DeVito inspired design on BTAS, but I don't really mind his more normal looking TNBA design either. Didn't make it any less of a chore for fans to make canonical sense out of his massive change of appearance, but I'm sure that plastic surgery was always the first assumption for many of us, and while it may have taken years to get an official confirmation on that we did more or less get one at least. Winner: No preference. Catwoman: I've always dug seeing Catwoman in all black thanks to Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns, so I do appreciate that they finally adapted that to animation with her TNBA design. It's just the thing with her skin being completely white while in costume that I've always found a bit strange, and I kind of prefer seeing her real eyes through the mask like with Batgirl as opposed to the large blank eyes. If they had kept the design that was done for that canceled spin-off series and used that in TNBA, minus the white skin, I'd consider it my ideal Catwoman design. At least Batman: Gotham Adventures explained Selina's change in hair color. Winner: BTAS, since the spin-off series was never produced. Riddler: Going by his animated appearances alone I'd be among the majority of fans who liked his original BTAS design better, no question (pun intended?). Based on the very few animated appearances I did see him in after his redesign I used to head-canon to myself that he just became a much more crazy and unhinged villain after where "Riddler's Reform" left him, hence his drastic design change. Winner: BTAS. Mr. Freeze: The idea from the writers to introduce another tragic twist into Freeze's life after SubZero by having him reduced to a talking head on robotic legs was always a surprise for me, and was certainly a daring move on their part. As far as his overall design though between BTAS and TNBA, this is another case where I just like his original design better, mainly cause I love those red-lensed goggles that he originally wore. But then he always looked awesome in his futuristic Batman Beyond suit that he had "kept in cold storage" apparently. Winner: BTAS. Poison Ivy: I actually kind of like what they were going for with Ivy and her own redesigns. Unlike with Catwoman I always felt that giving Ivy white skin (and also green) really sells the idea of her having as much plant in her blood as being human. And of course you already did that great video about Ivy being a plant clone that helps sell it even more, but Ivy having a more metahuman type of appearance just works for me. Winner: TNBA. Bane: His original BTAS design was alright, but I can't help but love his TNBA look. They really made him look more gnarly and menacing with the spikes and stuff. I'd say this is another one of the TNBA redesigns that I easily enjoy more over BTAS, along with... Scarecrow: Real drastic change from his previous BTAS appearances, but if scarier was what they wanted then they certainly delivered. I absolutely love undead zombie looking Scarecrow. Winners: TNBA. Killer Croc: I kind of liked seeing them push the reptilian angle of the character more in TNBA than just being a guy with a skin condition, but like with Penguin they really left it to us to make sense out of his physical change, so props to you for trying. Also I feel like I can only associate that ever quotable "I THREW A ROCK AT 'EM!" line with his BTAS appearance, which makes me almost want to pick his original design by default, but I'm fine with either of them. Winner: No preference. Clayface: No real preference on his design either, but I suppose how good his shape-shifting animation was between series will always be a subject of debate. Winner: No preference. Mad Hatter: His original BTAS design has more of the whimsical color that I've always come to associate with Alice in Wonderland (cause of growing up with the Walt Disney version), so yeah, I just prefer his original design for that reason. Not much more to it than that. Winner: BTAS. Ventriloquist & Scarface: No real opinion I can think of in regards to these two, though I might lean a little more towards BTAS. Would always be fun to see what it would look like to mix Arnold's BTAS design with Scarface's TNBA design, or vice-versa. Winner: No preference. Baby-Doll: I'd have to give it to her original design, partly for reminding me so much of Elmyra on Tiny Toon Adventures. Winner: BTAS.
Scarlet Witch's accent loss wasn't explicitly explained in the movies but the Russo brothers explained that she learned to tone down and eventually americanize her Eastern European accent so she was less distinctive/recognizable, something she learned to do from Black Widow, especially since she was in hiding after Civil War and during Infinity War.
every person that goes to live in a different place eventually starts to talk like the people around them. americans need to try it someday. it really works.
Really noticed these redesigns in that episode where Superman is disguised as Batman. Mr Freeze is my Favorite no matter what containment suit he's wearing. Retro Futuristic, or 90s Terminator. I suppose the one for his head is more of a war of the worlds stilt walker. Pushing the scifi undertones of Freeze further.
I always forget what the technical term is, but if you read about just how big technicolor's debut was, you'll understand the frame shot of Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz walking in frame to the door then offscreen then back and out the door was the transitional shot that does the same color change for Joker/Batman. It's a great way to signify a change in detail/color/emotions that's often overlooked.
Honestly though thr new Bane design you showed actually looks pretty damn snazzy I like it. Really brings out the actual brains he has with that brawn for some reason.
Joker's re-design was always a hit/miss for me as a kid. There were times the look worked well in certain scenes, but other times made him look off. The beyond movie really fleshed him out perfectly and is the perfect chef's kiss, He comes off more menacing, but still has that classic "smile". I think the only issue with his design is when in beyond he takes over Tim. They explain, but don't explain how the transformation altered his appearance. You'd think Tim's body structure would remain unchanged as he slowly becomes Joker, but its not. For the design that's where it falls a bit.
I mean it probably uses the Same science as splicing or man bat But with the joker's d n a, which probably is Is horrifically mutated considering he grows green hair now I think
The killer croc color change was due to bruce timm and co. having a more extensive color palette to work with, that goes with all the characters. For instance, Robin was no longer shaded with blue. The original series had an art style reminiscent of the 1940's superman cartoon, which gave the series a classic 1940's/1950's look and feel.when superman came out it had a bit more modern, yet 1970's look. A difference between art deco and gothic style. The new batman adventures, it was decided to bring batman and company as well as gotham into a more modern time. The changes also included updating characters allowing a show of the passage of time. People change so due their clothes and sometimes their origins ( this comics after all) also it helped to boost toy sales that were beginning to slip. By the way, Dr. Kirk langstrom's name is Man-Bat.
Not a fan of Joker's redesign, but I understand what they were trying to go with. I remember reading that book called "Batman: Animated" in which they explained the redesign, and mentioned that they wanted him to be like a grinning skull. If I wanted a "grinning skull”, then I'd stick to The Mask since he's a green headed skull of sorts. 😆
I love that the Arkham Series sort of had their own rendition as to why Scarecrow looked deformed and the way he did, his Arkham Knight look is pretty on point to his TNBA style
I like the Mr Freeze concept. Simple concepts help with animation, I know, but there's just enough detail in him to stand out and fall cohesively into the Batman world. I also like the cover art he was based off @11:33. I have to put that comic on my hunt list lol
Joker's redesign looked pretty much what you described, something straight out of a Tiny Toons cartoon like it was parodying itself. But much like what another guy in the comments said, I do feel like Joker changing his face for no reason sounds pretty in character. He probably got lazy at that time, like saying "Nah, I'm ditching the lipstick this year!"
When it comes to Poison Ivy, I think I read something a while ago that the creators of the shows said that the real Pamela Isly escaped for good, and every time she appeared in BTAS or TNBA, it was just another one of her pods committing crimes instead. I'm not sure if they were some sort of backup in case the real Poison Ivy died. I'll have to go back and see if I can find it.
These changes always seemed so weird to me. As a kid I only saw them as downgrades, but looking back I can at least see how they were a stylistic benefit on the part of the artists even if I didn't care for 'em.
When I saw the new Batman adventures redesign for Batman as a kid, I was absolutely obsessed. And then him and Jokers redesign in Justice League and JLU are perfection in my opinion
I do feel like the TNBA Joker design really works in TNBA. It moves great, has great expressions, and it really fits the look they were going for. It's just the whiplash that made people dislike the design.
I think it weirdly worked well in the Worlds' Finest crossover overall. Everytime he's being sadistic or just evil or sinister looking the look really shines and I think for the most part it's the combination of those eyes and the very pointy hair.
Scarecrow’s redesign was an absolute delight. Adding to its effectiveness would be Jeffrey Combs’ performance. I was just replaying Rise of Sin Tzu with my nephew the other day and he was definitely nervous.
I always just took it that joker had a phase of just wearin heavy black makeup and no lipstick, maybe contacts. He is a theatrical guy so he is not over trying new stuff. His JLU design is peak tho.
I’m not super into most of the redesigns honestly, but I do like that they exist. It’s pretty cool to mirror the way the comic industry works with status quo changes, especially in the outfit department.
I had to stop by and say how much I love this episode. The humorous foreshadowing of Joker was perfect. Your channel has been popping up with interesting titles and thumbnails so I kept flagging for watch later. Today is later. I loved it. Skimming episodes I can see that I'm gonna subscribe now. Thanks for this one.
I've honestly never hated Joker's TNBA redesign, I remember thinking as a kid that his creepy black eyes were really cool. I actually think my biggest gripe with it is how they dulled the highlight in his hair to be a bluish teal instead of green. But yeah, the Return of the Joker design is top notch
My favourite villain re-design from the TNBA era goes to Two-Face, an effectively small change but I love the cooler colour scheme and and the updated silhouette with the sharper lines/shape for ol' Harvey, something about it just works well imo. For heroes my nod goes to Batgirl, her TNBA design might be my favourite Batgirl design out there along with Cass Cain's original Batgirl suit from No Man's Land, I think the design update for Babs matched the new style and energy of TNBA to a tee.
Scarecrow’s design and personality change was a great decision. It makes him so much scarier and more interesting. In BTAS scarecrow is kinda a skeleator villain who always boasts about how scary and powerful he is but then it always backfires on him and he always gets exposed to his own fear toxin and will have massive freak outs. However in TNBA Scarecrow is calm, he doesn’t boast or yell to make people scared of him, he just calmly talks with a dead expression. Also to mention he seems to have overcome the affects of his own fear toxin, no longer having massive freakouts. He's also taller and beefier which makes him physically more intimidating, like even a skilled fighter would be creeped out by him if they saw him. He's just so much scarier and better written. A tip for making good villains is never have them be driven by petty revenge and don’t have their own plans constantly backfire on them cause it makes them look stupid and weak. Scarecrow was always defeated by his own powers which made him look incompetent however not once in TNBA was he defeated by his own powers, Batman and Robin actively had to try hard to defeat him and almost failed. That's how to write a good villain
13:11 I was like where is he going with this "doc?" oh... OH... ni-nice. 😅😅😅 🤣 23:46 Absolute perfection... the seamless transition, the usage of the OG clip to make your point. Outstanding 27:57 Yes. YES. Your videos are always of such high quality and a treat for DCAU lovers
Never seen a video, but I just have to say how much your intro took me back to Saturday morning cartoons, felt just like a broadcast cutaway from Toonami or WBKids
As a kid I always liked the new Batman adventures animation style because it popped more with its dark vibrant colors. I also always liked the stories in BTAS and it’s animation style as well. As for the animation style in the new adventures, I always wondered as a kid why they did the change. Nonetheless, both worked in my opinion for what they were trying to do.
Honestly, I love it all. All of the designs through out the DCAU. Of course there are designs I prefer, but I feel like most of the time they maintain their look in a foundation and it mostly looks like clothing upgrades. Speaking specifically on Joker, I think all 3 designs work well and serve a great purpose. I think the TNBA Joker stories have a lot more comedy to them and allow for the more animated joker to shine more with over exaggerated movement. Jokers Millions is a great example of that. My fav example is when he steals Lexs flying wing and says "I like to personalize all my stuff" to the camera. Of course, as you have said, I think the final Joker design was the best one and a perfect blend of the 2 before and really scary too.
![The Untold Story of Why They [Bleeped] Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YOLFTqULZ9w/mqdefault.jpg)
holy balls i know who man-bat is
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Also in static shock ,Joker design was the same one in Batman beyond the flashback scene ,Justice league episodes
The joker jokes tho😂
I like the animation way better than the original Batman adventures
If I'm not mistaken I think scarlet witch's accent change was quasi explained in Wanda Vision, I don't remember if it was the commentary of a character or a TH-cam video but I think there's a decision in her vocal performance in certain parts of an episode or episodes of the show that suggest a particular explanation of why her accent subconscious changes
I like batman tas designs, what about you
I love that they eventually merged the two Joker designs into that one perfect one in the Batman Beyond movie
Also Scarecrow is fucking horrifying even as an adult
True
It's also his design by the time there's the Justice League DCAU series
That movie scared me as a kid badly lol. Remember owning it in vhs and being scared to even look at it. Kept remembering that laughing scene in the bat cave
Yeah that design was perfect and I loved when they used it in Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
It's so perfectly in-character for the Joker to have no explanation for his design changes
this is probably the 7th time he just completely changed looks for no reason. (in universe)
Yeah he probably goes and changes his look just to mess with the people of Gotham like is that joker or not you can’t know if he’s always changing his look
his body just did that
Some other takes on Batman in other mediums ironically may imply some answers; one common one is that the Joker only has white skin, and has naturally black hair and white lips (see Telltale Batman). Usually he will dye his hair green and wear red lipstick in these cases to "complete the look".
This doesnt fully jive with certain things (do the laughing fish have red lips or did they lipstick them all up?) but its feasible he just decides to not dye his hair green here or wear his lipstick.
Or it's not really the same Joker ;)
I like how, with Clayface, it doesn't matter how few or many changes they made to him, it could all be explained as "...Dude's a shapeshifter. He just wanted to look like that."
I love Scarecrow’s redesign. His new look is awesome. He is even more scary looking than he was in the original series.
If he was in the Justice league I would make him look like Ezekiel Rage from Jonny Quest and the killer from the movie Nightbreed
I agree
By far my favorite redesign. He scared the absolute bejesus out of me as a kid lol. That makes him cool looking in my book.
Definitely agree. Love the rope around his neck.
Yes I completely agree
I've always enjoyed the Arkham Knight explanation that Croc's body mutates further as a result of trauma he sustains. So the more injured he gets his body regenerates to be more beast like. Leading to him being experimented on in prison and mutating into a 20 foot tall upright walking crocodile and looking a lot less human then his Arkham Asylum or City appearances.
It'd be cool if we ever get something that confirms this is how it works in DCAU too, the set up is there given his last BTAS appearance. It's a good concept and I want to see it used more 👍
Arkham Origins Croc looked slim and clean for a crocodile human.
@@domenica3639 He did indeed, and to this day, that remains my favorite Killer Croc design, and one of my top favorite character designs in general.
Mostly unrelated but I like how Killer Croc and Joker are on good terms and Joker seems to genuinely like him and Clayface
I sure feel very sorry for Arkhamverse Croc at that point, since that monstrous, truly crocodile-like appearance is never gonna be undone.
Just came here to say I too keep reading the thumbnail as "I LIKE MEN"
Thought I was crazy lol
same also
🏳️🌈
Rorschach test🌈
@@thecondescendinggoomba5552 thats a transphobe comment
The Scarecrow change could be explained by him using just a little bit of his fear toxin or something, so that he would always appear scarier than he actually does
I always just assumed he kept changing the costume every so often, because if he keeps the same outfit for long periods of time, people will start to slowly get use to it, getting rid of some of that fear, and changes his attire to keep the fear train going.
@@misterbiscuit3706same
@@misterbiscuit3706there is a theory that Scarecrow was convicted of a murder and sentenced to death by hanging and the noose snapped and he somehow escaped thinking he was dead and was a ghost. That would explain why he is much calmer and less dramatic as he just doesn’t care about life anymore since he believes he's already dead
@@jessebrucepinkman9834 Yeah, that was in the video during the scarecrow section
In the comics he redesigned his costume because he saw the Kraang from TMNT in Dimension X and realized he needed to get serious. I’m not joking.
I think the Mr. Freeze redesign with the harsher cheekbones makes him seem more evil, whereas the original with the rounder face and the goggles give him a slightly softer appearance and works better for a more tragic story
I agree, he does appear more menacing
But what's the explanation of him losing the goggles and just giving him red eyes? When out of the suit his eyes were normal
@@CrSnds I don't know, I prefer the goggles because they bring to mind "mad scientist", which is what Fries pretty much is. Only mad for love. I definitely agree with their decision to remove his eyebrows though, they looked fine in the design if you didn't think about it, but really if his hair fell out of his frozen scalp he shouldn't retain eyebrows either
@@CrSnds If he's kept cold then any water in the air would immediately turn into frost when it touches his helmet.
What if the goggles allow him to see through the frost. Since he needs to be cold all the time he can't use a defrosting system like in a car.
True, but the change does help sell that Mr Freeze has become more of a villain, which fits with his storyline throughout his BTAS and TNBA episodes, but i do agree that i prefer his "softer" look, however i feel the change to sharper angles and less emphasis on his human-aspects with his design were atleast somewhat intentional, not 100% sure but i like to think they did it intentionally to sort of show the shift of Mr Freeze turning into a "proper" villain with a "heart of ice"
That's the point of the redesign. He's supposed to appear more evil because he has no other feeling left but to cause pain onto others as the pain he has been given living as long as he does with his condition and knowing that a healthy, lively Nora has found someone else.
The Joker became a FNAF animatronic
Lol
My dyslexic ass thought the thumbnail said “Like Men” with the joker smiling creepily 💀
Wait why did I also read it “Like men” .
Everytime i see the thumbnail i think it says like men bri😢
Jinkler likes men, is he gay?
Same 😭😭
Glad I'm not alone
Honestly I think the scarecrow design was perfect, and it shows that the creators loved it as he was redesigned 3 times prior.
In their words they were always changing his design even during BTAS because he "wasn't scary enough". Well they definitely met their goal for him when they got to TNBA.
The Scarecrow redesign is simply...🤌🤌🤌
So, just like Cell from Dragon Ball Z?
@michaelandreipalon359 No cell got redisgined because his first form was apparently too scary, and his second form was too ugly
Poison Ivy’s redesign was the only one that ever made any sense to me. She’s an evolving plant and her body is mutating. Makes sense. Still prefer the old, but the new looks great too.
My main problem with both her and Catwoman as far as redesigns go is that they just appear too young, as earlier in the series they are clearly at least in their 30's but after the redesign you could think they were the same age as both Supergirl and Batgirl when in actuality they are between ten and twenty-five years older.
I love the Batman Beyond movie that redesigned Joker with the mashup of both former designs, really bringing a perfect look together, and that design is what ended up being used in the Justice League/JLU series. I’m glad you brought it up, because so many people never mention it.
I seen this fan edit that changes the colors on the Joker's design from The New Batman Adventures
th-cam.com/video/l-Gc7giP9ys/w-d-xo.html
we never mention it cuz it sucks.
@@zoltanz288 It’s literally the best version. Don’t be a troll.
Scarecrow got one hell of a glow-up! Casting Jeffrey Combs as his new voice was brilliant!
I've always have a soft spot for TNBA Catwoman's look mostly because of how it really evokes the Batman returns Catwoman. Also agreed that Scarecrow really got a massive upgrade for the better.
Scarecrow just seems to always be prime material for rapid design changes. For example, although it was mostly just graphical limitations and time between entries, the Arkham Games had Scarecrow go from 'Halloween themed acid trip muppet' to 'actual threat zombie serial killer' despite the joker and the other rogues staying mostly the same but with better models/textures.
They have to keep up his appearance in order to make him scarier each time.
He did get messed up by killer croc in asylum. Which is probably why his face is… what it is
Even his voice and entire personality are different. In Asylum he’s crazy but more playful like in the animated series. In Knight, he has a stone cold demeanor and sounds like… how he looks. Zombie serial killer works, I think the grim reaper after being tortured by the devil makes sense as well. Great VA performance from John Noble who was Denethor in LotR.
@@bencarlson4300 He also voiced Unicron in Transformers Prime.
Was never a fan of the Joker redesign but looking at the three side by side I have to agree that Beyonds is a great combination of the old.
I love the menancing hunch he's got going on, he's like a hyena that knows dinner is about to be served.
The Scarecrow is just my favorite villain, hands down, and his redesign was not only warranted, but incredibly good at conveying what he is.
I actually quite like all the designs for joker. I think the black eyes, while not traditional, fit the aesthetic they were going for with that version and made a really iconic design for him. You can basically look at the eyes and know exactly what show he was made in and i kinda like that about it cause it gives the show a sort of charm when it comes to him. Its still uniquely the joker and sure theres no in universe reason for it but, it just feels right for it to me
The black eyes gives him a creepy factor and I can brush it off as a side effect of Ace Chemicals.
@@hope-cat4894 I was hoping someone would bring this up. The ace chemicals turned his eyes black!!! Easy answer I always used lol
@@lawrencelord9777 Imagine a live action Joker with the actor wearing black contacts. That would look so cool. 😁
Quite frankly, I hated the Joker redesign in the animated series. Thought it looked outright inhuman.
@@hope-cat4894 it will take a die hard Batman animated fan to do it lol
They never explained why Scarlet Witch lost her accent, but did directly call attention to it during WandaVision. I think we’re just meant to assume she lost her accent over time by spending years with the Avengers in America and watching so many American sitcoms in her free time.
The Sokovian accent still leaks through on occasion, like in Doctor Strange 2, where she’s particularly angry.
She had an accent in WandaVision as well, when she left her TV world and confronted the military after she finds the drone. Her accent (which had been missing while in her TV world) was on full display in the “real” world. I think her idealized version of herself doesn’t have it, which is why it’s missing in situations where she’s in control and/or not agitated/provoked.
The meta reason is because Elizabeth Olsen was really bad at doing a Russian accent lol.
@@CaptainMcKayRandom Which actually makes sense, because real people who work to hide their accents are also more likely to slip back into them when they're stressed and have less control.
I find the concept of SW losing her accent baffling. Her home country’s capital city was dropped from the sky, her nation in ruins; you think she’d hyper fixate on what little Sokovia she has left. But no, she dumps her accent. Its like a 9/11 first responder going to a speech coach to get rid of their NY accent. That’s just an icky sentence right there
She lost it the same way people irl lose it is my theory. You live somewhere love enough, you acquire the accent.
i saw the thumbnail for a few seconds in my periphery on my home page and thought it was a picture of joker and it said "LIKE MEN" and though "huh that would be an interesting redesign of him"
that’s just called the Lego Batman Movie’s Joker
The Scarlet Witch thing: They don't exactly "explain it" but they do lampshade it in WandaVision and imply her accent comes back when she's stressed or mad. So I guess the accent is to try and "fit in" but when she's pissed she doesn't find it necessary anymore and the accent comes back
And its implied she watched American sitcoms a ton growing up and seems to have identity+reality issues
yada yada yada, actress got lazy.
she has it back in later appearances, its just gone in wandavision because the whole thing is she's in an american sitcom
@@mkv2718it’s literally a plot point of her going past her childhood in sakovia 😩
IRL pepole adapt their voice to a new accent if they move, Usually takes only a few years for an accent to change
The "resurrected" Joker's reveal in Return of the Joker suggests that in the "black eyes" design he simply had his eyes perpetually obscured by shadow.
I wouldn't put it past Joker to wear a prosthetic that accentuated his brow ridge, just so he could have spookier eyes to mess with Batman.
I keep reading the thumbnail as “like men”
Scarlet Witch lost her accent slowly over time. I've heard of some people adopting an American accent after living here for a while, so the fact that she changes her dialect over the course of a few years makes sense to me
It is possible it's happened to me. I knew only Spanish growing up and when I started learning English I had a strong accent. But over the years it went away. It comes back at times though
It's no different in moving to a different part of the States and speaking in a regional dialect.
Yep. My southern accent has softened significantly after moving to less rural parts of Texas.
@@FourDozenEggsIt happened to me too, my Southern accent gradually disappeared once I moved to another country
My head canon is that she has spent a lot of time with Natasha who taught her how to hide her natural accent so she could pass easily for being an American thus not drawing any specific attention to herself seeing as they were being pursued after Age of Ultron.
this keeps getting recommended to me and i always read the thumbnail as "like men"
I KNOW RIGHT!??! LMFAO
this and that fucking “Bethesda gun design” vid
I explain it to you in one sentence: They are all easier to draw and animate.
Scarecrow being an exception and very cool.
yup. the backgrounds are also far less detailed and good looking than BTAS.
How much harder is it to paint Joker's eyes the right color tho
@@Mr_Leo_DS Okay that was an artistic choice that apparently did not land.
Riddler looks so clapped though goddamn 😂
It's a more credible explanation than the "re-imagination and creativity" thing.
I don't mind the character redesigns as much as I did the setting. I loved that weird out of time feel to Batman TAS that made it stand out as a series that could have happened at any point between the 40s and the 90s.
I've seen a few videos of yours, but this is the one that made me subscribe. You're pretty good
Yeah, they’re pretty good. The only redesign that I don’t like is mad hatter’s
Pretty... good.
(Sorry, had to do a Metal Gear Solid 3 reference.)
Well, ignoring the futuristic inventions like the freeze gun and the various crazy chemicals. Heck, one episode featured a gadget that could slow down someone's perception of time!
@@Compucles And with the above average use of time travel in later storylines, looks like Dr. Wakati's work did come to the public fold successfully, if a bit niche at first.
Am surprised that he didn't have a role in Static Shock though, what with the time travelling Timezone there.
@@Compucles yeah, but that still could fit into any old pulp fiction novel back in the day. I think it still fits.
I read the thumbnail as “LIKE MEN” 💀
Damn boy you’re so quirky
For Penguin I much preferred the more human look they gave him in TNBA as opposed to the Danny DeVito design they gave him in BTAS. He looked significantly more sophisticated and I could totally buy someone like him being the owner of the Iceberg Lounge whereas I can't see the Animated Series Penguin pulling something like that off.
Well his original design looks and sounds like Mr Burns second cousin.
Yes, that is a more effective use of the Penguin, especially since his best appearance in B:TAS was a supporting rule (Almost Got 'Im)
I like the idea that Penguin decided to slim down and got some plastic surgery prior to the new batman adventures.
While nearly everyone else was a downgrade in some form or another, I do think Penguin's TNBA design was a vast improvement. But I always was more a fan of the classic Penguin look as opposed to the more monstrous versions born from, or inspired by, Batman Returns.
@@FancifulDancingStar Batgirl, Scarecrow and Harley Quinn also looked better in TNBA. I also preferred Catwoman's TNBA look. I was never a fan of the long blonde hair and gray suit for Catwoman (and in general them making her a wealthy socialite and an activist really didn't work for me). I really liked the short dark hair and all-black suit which made her look more seductive and kind of sinister in a cool way.
I had the same theory of Riddler pulling out his hair in his frustration of trying to figure out how Batman escaped the death trap in "Riddler's Reform." I'm overjoyed to hear you independently consider the same possibility!
You know everyone being explainable except Joker is the most Joker shit ever. After all… he likes his origins to be multiple choice.
I think it’s really funny that Bane’s TNBA design doesn’t actually show up in any episodes of the show except in a hallucination.
Haha yep. He doesn’t actually fight Batman in that look until “Mystery of the Batwoman.”
@@dcauwatchtower Willie watt hates white people
Scarecrow's redesign is pure nightmare fuel. I love it.
Gotta say, really love the look of -TNAB- TNBA Joker. For all the departure of his established looks bookending him, he still has the vibe, the motion, and perhaps the lack of lip-shine makes him less gaudy (or grotesque), and more coolly unnerving. I like it, and think it's a "worthy chapter in the Batman mythos."
Same
I didn't like the Joker redesign because it was too simple and kess detailed and it made him seem like less of a threat
And the first joker design was so good
@@shivammohanlal1332 facts
@@shivammohanlal1332 yes
@@terrenceharris-hughes4436 yes especially for the eyes and no red lips
They butchered his look, completely removing 2 of his most iconic features. The whole point is that he looks like a clown, yet they ditched the green hair and red lips
I actually liked the original Penguin design, something about such a sophisticated and classic voice coming out of a grotesque and macabre guy was an interesting contrast
Honestly, taking Penguin out of the supply side of crime and more “legitimate businessman” was one the best movies they made, along with his redesign
Another production reason for the re-design was a result of Fox's late order of an additional 13 episodes during their run of the series. When painting is done by hand, paints have to be ordered in batches, and minor shade differences have to be ordered since each animation cell placed above an image alters the colors beneath it. The animation company assigned for Fox's final 13 episodes of Batman had just recently finished a run of the Plucky Duck Show, and had gone through most of their dark green, which meant they had none left over for the shading of Robin's sleeves and tights. That's why the green parts of Robin's design in those final episodes had a weird blue shading to them. Color shading of TNBA and Superman TAS was done with the entire production in mind to avoid making that error again.
With Croc I always thought his mutation thing just went further. Just like in the Arkham games universe, Croc in Arkham Knight is much more reptilian than he was in Arkham Asylum.
Also, for Scarlett Witch, it was kind of explained that she didn't have it in her TV world so she fit in better but when she stepped out of the TV world to confront the military trying to get into it she had her accent again.
In the movie, she lost and gained the accent randomly too. It was just bad acting
@@jjgarcia156 I think most Wanda Fans are distracted by her... Looks... yeah, most Wanda Fans are distracted by her looks.
Croc was also LESS reptilian in the Arkham Origins prequel. So that was interesting attention to detail.
EVERY time this video shows up in my recommendations, i misread the thumbnail as "like men"
It's interesting how Justice League's character designs for Batman and his rogues are a combination of BTAS and TNBA
I much prefer the justice league and return of the joker redesign of the joker.
@@idrisledger I wish they could have given a redesign on the Penguin,riddler,scarecrow and killer Croc.
@@idrisledger Same here, mate.
@@idrisledger ROTJ and JL Joker are like TAS Joker and TNBA Joker become one.
I actually really love the explanation of just seeing things through a different lens. It adds a lot of creative potential for an animated franchise. If an aspect of a redesign is important for story or character reasons than the show can point it out to communicate that, but then if it doesn’t then you can just chock it up to a reinterpretation of design and nothing more. I think that’s pretty fun and makes the changes much easier to enjoy.
Also, as always, great video. Now I’m just waiting for you guys to pitch an elseworlds comic where Mr. Wing has to put together a ragtag group of C and D list villains to help break the Penguin out of Arkham. For lack of a better name I’ll throw out “one flew over the penguin’s nest” for now
Honestly as a kid I never really noticed the drastic changes between BTAS & TNBA. But I agree both shows are some of the best forms of Batman media and really got me into DC Comics.
I think a key reason the BTAS art style worked so well for that show was that it took major inspiration from Art Deco design principles. This allowed somewhat streamlined character designs without many detailed textures, but dynamic color choices and the painted style of animation gave it richness despite the minimalism, much like classic Art Deco posters. This also perfectly paralleled the deeply Deco design of Gotham City, and matched the Detective Noir tone and storytelling of many episodes.
I was always confused why these redesigns occurred, and I do really like some of them. Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, and Catwoman are some of my favorites.
I appreciate you making this video! It really cleared things up for me. :)
They occured because they're less detailed and therefore cheaper.
@@lgrace3874 I know. I watched the video
one insect leg is still an insect. one spider leg is still a spider leg.
With Mad Hatter I remember being surprised the first time I saw him in the Animated Series by how tall they made him. When I first saw him in the comics I remember him being much shorter but I guess that's something they took inspiration for from the imposter Mad Hatter form the comics, who was taller and had a big moustache. I always figured that his redesign for TNBA was them making him more accurate to the comic version.
I always love hearing the behind-the-scenes hows and whys, Its kinda ashame other shows don't have this same level of archiving
I absolutely love Poison Ivy’s and Scarecrow’s redesign’s. And at first I didn’t mind Joker’s redesign but after a few years Im not a big fan of it anymore.
What they did for Catwoman kinda always made sense to me. She's a criminal, a cat themed one, so her costume being as dark as black cat's fur so not to be easily seen seemed smart to me. Like, something she would actually do. It's not my favourite one by any means, I always loved the details of previous adaptations of the comics, but I think it makes sense.
Not really. You actually want a dark blue or gray to blend into the background. Otherwise you will make a silhouette
Had to scroll back up to view the thumbnail bc I thought it said “LIKES MEN” and I was very intrigued as to what you had to say
To think that the scarecrow is wearing human skin is absolutely brutal
It makes the design all the more enjoyable to me
Dude your content is so informative while also being fun to watch and the editing is on point just 10/10
Thank you!
Killer Croc's design change is indeed a result of his mutation. I don’t recall where it’s explained, but essentially when he takes heavy damage, such as Bane breaking Croc's body, his body aggressively mutates further while repairing the damage he takes, resulting in his appearance becoming more reptilian. This even extends to the games where he ends up growing a full on tail, and gets absolutely massive, as in he’s like twelve to thirteen feet tall, built like a brick shithouse, and can pretty casually tear through reinforced steel doors. What’s unclear, at least to my knowledge, is whether his condition is also dangerous to him, as in the games he starts to physically degrade, like he starts to fall apart, which might be due to his cells not being able to withstand being mutated, and so they start to die out, leading to his physical and mental degradation during the Arkham games.
Pretty sad stuff tbh, he and bane were screwed from birth essentially.
@@bencarlson4300 Nah, Bane turned out the way he did because he abused venom. He was already damn near inhumanly strong alongside being just as smart as Batman to begin with, but then he took a dose of venom and everything started to fall apart after that.
@@decimation9780 I was more referring to his background in a prison
That bat/man hybrid you're referring to from episode 1 of BTAS has an official name:
*Manbat*
Actually, I loved almost all of the redesigns. Especially Ivy, she hit all the right buttons for me! 😍 I didn’t care for the Riddler and Catwoman redesigns, but thought the rest were awesome.
Check out our full Poison Ivy video when you get the chance! Link’s in the description
Hehe, "buttons".
Says a lot about how beloved DCAU is decades later we get top quality videos like this exploring it’s production, design and lore history
Come back for more, we’ve got plenty!
It's so fitting that the Jokers logical explanation for a design change is "fuck you"
The New Batman Adventures designs are hit or miss, but I do prefer Mad Hatter's re design. His small and frail physic can be seen as non threatening, but that can be used to his advantage. People underestimate how much of a threat he can be and his TNBA appearance really captures that for me. Also I like that he looks like a little rat man lol.
IMO his redesign would have been superior if it was more colorful, those muted shades of green looked boring.
There's a lot about TNBA's art style I love. The batsuit, especially, with the darker grays and blacks, and no oval around the bat symbol, and the angular cowl. The red night skies of Gotham is equal bits striking as it is haunting. There's a lot to love about this specific look of the Batman mythos that I feel has been abandoned or not referenced as much recently. Glad y'all made this a video!
You know what is the problem with TNBA?
This is simple : BTAS is based around the principle that all Batman universe elements are humans and are only simple persons transformed into monsters by Fate.
What makes Batman from BTAS interesting is that he is just a middle-aged guy in a weird Halloween costume with compassion, what is interesting in BTAS is that Poison ivy is only a beautiful woman with compassionate green eyes, while her TNBA design is just… non-human (I know they retconned in the comics to explain this shitty design, but it’s still bad). Croc in BTAS is just a mutated little guy, situation which makes him Interesting in some episodes, while his TNBA design is a biped crocodile, destroying all of humanity.
Even the Scarecrow (the TNBA design that everyone loves) is a complete disaster because Jonathan Crane, the simple human, has no more face, with only a monstrous one having no plot sense.
Mr Freeze is an insult towards the original character, etc…
And this is a same thing plot-wise : they destroyed everything making BTAS interesting for some stupid episodes.
And I know that people will cry "But bro, Over The Edge, Mad Love, etc…. they were soooo good! How can you say that?", but (1) these episodes are overrated (Judgment Day is just a bad version of the BTAS episode Second Chance with less subtlety, TNBA adaptation of Mad Love deleted some narrative parts of the original comic making it un-logical, Over The Edge and Legends of the Dark Knights are what-ifs and so don’t count). (2) Did you all forget the talking Goat, the robotic insects, the evil Freeze, or the billionaire Joker episode ? Or can we talk about how the episode "Old Wounds" is the worst episode of the entirety of DCAU without any debate (the numbers of stupid retcons and OOC moments…). No, but seriously, for one good episode, you have three shitty, while in BTAS, there is only one bad episode (Batgirl Returns) and like 40 good. (3) Why should I accept a bad sequel just for three really interesting episodes?
@@adonis7626 -"what I like is right and what you guys like it wrong, I have the best opinion!!11"
What I keep coming back to is that TNBA doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's the same art style as Superman, Batman Beyond, and JLU. I think the look only improved, esp. by JLU.
@@lordskeletor4558 Yes. This Is Is what we call critique.
Sorry that I have a functional Brain and understand what Is BTAS.
@@adonis7626 thanks for the mustache twirling nerd speech but nobody seems to like what you're preaching but you.
My personal opinion on each of the redesigns...
Joker: Never really had a problem with his more cartoonish TNBA design as a kid, but I can definitely see why it was never too popular with the fans and considered too much of a downgrade, especially with him missing his iconic red lips (the inverted eye color is still an interesting take on his design though). His second redesign for Return of the Joker and Justice League certainly addressed the issues that were had with his TNBA design by bringing him closer to how he originally looked on BTAS, and while I'd consider that my next favorite Joker design I'd still say that I like his original BTAS design best when it was being animated as consistently good as in Mask of the Phantasm. Winner: BTAS, followed by ROTJ and JL.
Harley Quinn/Two-Face: Barely changed between series aside from being drawn a bit more angular than before, so no real opinion worth mentioning.
Penguin: Will always have a soft spot for his Danny DeVito inspired design on BTAS, but I don't really mind his more normal looking TNBA design either. Didn't make it any less of a chore for fans to make canonical sense out of his massive change of appearance, but I'm sure that plastic surgery was always the first assumption for many of us, and while it may have taken years to get an official confirmation on that we did more or less get one at least. Winner: No preference.
Catwoman: I've always dug seeing Catwoman in all black thanks to Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns, so I do appreciate that they finally adapted that to animation with her TNBA design. It's just the thing with her skin being completely white while in costume that I've always found a bit strange, and I kind of prefer seeing her real eyes through the mask like with Batgirl as opposed to the large blank eyes. If they had kept the design that was done for that canceled spin-off series and used that in TNBA, minus the white skin, I'd consider it my ideal Catwoman design. At least Batman: Gotham Adventures explained Selina's change in hair color. Winner: BTAS, since the spin-off series was never produced.
Riddler: Going by his animated appearances alone I'd be among the majority of fans who liked his original BTAS design better, no question (pun intended?). Based on the very few animated appearances I did see him in after his redesign I used to head-canon to myself that he just became a much more crazy and unhinged villain after where "Riddler's Reform" left him, hence his drastic design change. Winner: BTAS.
Mr. Freeze: The idea from the writers to introduce another tragic twist into Freeze's life after SubZero by having him reduced to a talking head on robotic legs was always a surprise for me, and was certainly a daring move on their part. As far as his overall design though between BTAS and TNBA, this is another case where I just like his original design better, mainly cause I love those red-lensed goggles that he originally wore. But then he always looked awesome in his futuristic Batman Beyond suit that he had "kept in cold storage" apparently. Winner: BTAS.
Poison Ivy: I actually kind of like what they were going for with Ivy and her own redesigns. Unlike with Catwoman I always felt that giving Ivy white skin (and also green) really sells the idea of her having as much plant in her blood as being human. And of course you already did that great video about Ivy being a plant clone that helps sell it even more, but Ivy having a more metahuman type of appearance just works for me. Winner: TNBA.
Bane: His original BTAS design was alright, but I can't help but love his TNBA look. They really made him look more gnarly and menacing with the spikes and stuff. I'd say this is another one of the TNBA redesigns that I easily enjoy more over BTAS, along with...
Scarecrow: Real drastic change from his previous BTAS appearances, but if scarier was what they wanted then they certainly delivered. I absolutely love undead zombie looking Scarecrow. Winners: TNBA.
Killer Croc: I kind of liked seeing them push the reptilian angle of the character more in TNBA than just being a guy with a skin condition, but like with Penguin they really left it to us to make sense out of his physical change, so props to you for trying. Also I feel like I can only associate that ever quotable "I THREW A ROCK AT 'EM!" line with his BTAS appearance, which makes me almost want to pick his original design by default, but I'm fine with either of them. Winner: No preference.
Clayface: No real preference on his design either, but I suppose how good his shape-shifting animation was between series will always be a subject of debate. Winner: No preference.
Mad Hatter: His original BTAS design has more of the whimsical color that I've always come to associate with Alice in Wonderland (cause of growing up with the Walt Disney version), so yeah, I just prefer his original design for that reason. Not much more to it than that. Winner: BTAS.
Ventriloquist & Scarface: No real opinion I can think of in regards to these two, though I might lean a little more towards BTAS. Would always be fun to see what it would look like to mix Arnold's BTAS design with Scarface's TNBA design, or vice-versa. Winner: No preference.
Baby-Doll: I'd have to give it to her original design, partly for reminding me so much of Elmyra on Tiny Toon Adventures. Winner: BTAS.
I agree on the original penguin design because he looks more like a supervillain than a mr monopoly guy.
I like to believe that Killer Croc just mutated further.
@@CCaster2000 Probably the best theory we can really go with, but then he also feels a bit different personality-wise in his TNBA appearances as well.
I hate myself, I read the thumbnail as “Like men”.
Bruce's art style has been a great inspiration to me. Btas is an absolute classic. Rip Kevin Conroy.
Scarlet Witch's accent loss wasn't explicitly explained in the movies but the Russo brothers explained that she learned to tone down and eventually americanize her Eastern European accent so she was less distinctive/recognizable, something she learned to do from Black Widow, especially since she was in hiding after Civil War and during Infinity War.
every person that goes to live in a different place eventually starts to talk like the people around them. americans need to try it someday. it really works.
Everytime this video shows up on my recommendation I can't stop thinking that the thumbnail said "like men" and not "like new"
Really noticed these redesigns in that episode where Superman is disguised as Batman.
Mr Freeze is my Favorite no matter what containment suit he's wearing. Retro Futuristic, or 90s Terminator. I suppose the one for his head is more of a war of the worlds stilt walker. Pushing the scifi undertones of Freeze further.
I always forget what the technical term is, but if you read about just how big technicolor's debut was, you'll understand the frame shot of Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz walking in frame to the door then offscreen then back and out the door was the transitional shot that does the same color change for Joker/Batman. It's a great way to signify a change in detail/color/emotions that's often overlooked.
I KEEP READING THE THUMBNAIL AS "LIKE MEN"
Honestly though thr new Bane design you showed actually looks pretty damn snazzy I like it. Really brings out the actual brains he has with that brawn for some reason.
Joker's re-design was always a hit/miss for me as a kid. There were times the look worked well in certain scenes, but other times made him look off. The beyond movie really fleshed him out perfectly and is the perfect chef's kiss, He comes off more menacing, but still has that classic "smile". I think the only issue with his design is when in beyond he takes over Tim. They explain, but don't explain how the transformation altered his appearance. You'd think Tim's body structure would remain unchanged as he slowly becomes Joker, but its not. For the design that's where it falls a bit.
I mean it probably uses the Same science as splicing or man bat
But with the joker's d n a, which probably is Is horrifically mutated considering he grows green hair now I think
The killer croc color change was due to bruce timm and co. having a more extensive color palette to work with, that goes with all the characters. For instance, Robin was no longer shaded with blue. The original series had an art style reminiscent of the 1940's superman cartoon, which gave the series a classic 1940's/1950's look and feel.when superman came out it had a bit more modern, yet 1970's look. A difference between art deco and gothic style. The new batman adventures, it was decided to bring batman and company as well as gotham into a more modern time. The changes also included updating characters allowing a show of the passage of time. People change so due their clothes and sometimes their origins ( this comics after all) also it helped to boost toy sales that were beginning to slip. By the way, Dr. Kirk langstrom's name is Man-Bat.
Not a fan of Joker's redesign, but I understand what they were trying to go with. I remember reading that book called "Batman: Animated" in which they explained the redesign, and mentioned that they wanted him to be like a grinning skull.
If I wanted a "grinning skull”, then I'd stick to The Mask since he's a green headed skull of sorts. 😆
Batman beyond had the best looking joker and most threatening one lol
@CNgotham Of course, even they knew the previous design was bad and they made that one to improve on it.
@@tonymata8070 yep
I thought the thumbnail said "Like men" and just accepted it because it was Joker.
I love that the Arkham Series sort of had their own rendition as to why Scarecrow looked deformed and the way he did, his Arkham Knight look is pretty on point to his TNBA style
I like the Mr Freeze concept. Simple concepts help with animation, I know, but there's just enough detail in him to stand out and fall cohesively into the Batman world. I also like the cover art he was based off @11:33. I have to put that comic on my hunt list lol
Joker's redesign looked pretty much what you described, something straight out of a Tiny Toons cartoon like it was parodying itself.
But much like what another guy in the comments said, I do feel like Joker changing his face for no reason sounds pretty in character. He probably got lazy at that time, like saying "Nah, I'm ditching the lipstick this year!"
He looked like Tyrese Gibson 😊😅😂.
This is a video I never knew I needed. It's been a question somewhere in my subconscious for so many years. Nice work!
When it comes to Poison Ivy, I think I read something a while ago that the creators of the shows said that the real Pamela Isly escaped for good, and every time she appeared in BTAS or TNBA, it was just another one of her pods committing crimes instead. I'm not sure if they were some sort of backup in case the real Poison Ivy died. I'll have to go back and see if I can find it.
Everything you could ever want on that subject is in our full “Poison Ivy: Plant or Person?” video, link’s in the description!
@@dcauwatchtower I'll check it out. Thanks.
Baby Doll and Arnold Wesker/Scarface are really the only redesigns that I have no love for.
These changes always seemed so weird to me. As a kid I only saw them as downgrades, but looking back I can at least see how they were a stylistic benefit on the part of the artists even if I didn't care for 'em.
Seemed lazy to me.
When I saw the new Batman adventures redesign for Batman as a kid, I was absolutely obsessed. And then him and Jokers redesign in Justice League and JLU are perfection in my opinion
I do feel like the TNBA Joker design really works in TNBA. It moves great, has great expressions, and it really fits the look they were going for. It's just the whiplash that made people dislike the design.
I think it weirdly worked well in the Worlds' Finest crossover overall. Everytime he's being sadistic or just evil or sinister looking the look really shines and I think for the most part it's the combination of those eyes and the very pointy hair.
Scarecrow’s redesign was an absolute delight. Adding to its effectiveness would be Jeffrey Combs’ performance. I was just replaying Rise of Sin Tzu with my nephew the other day and he was definitely nervous.
I love how “Mignola” the new Scarecrow’s design/animation style is
I always just took it that joker had a phase of just wearin heavy black makeup and no lipstick, maybe contacts. He is a theatrical guy so he is not over trying new stuff. His JLU design is peak tho.
24:17 "You ready for a Bad time Bats?"
I’m not super into most of the redesigns honestly, but I do like that they exist. It’s pretty cool to mirror the way the comic industry works with status quo changes, especially in the outfit department.
I had to stop by and say how much I love this episode. The humorous foreshadowing of Joker was perfect. Your channel has been popping up with interesting titles and thumbnails so I kept flagging for watch later. Today is later. I loved it. Skimming episodes I can see that I'm gonna subscribe now. Thanks for this one.
I've honestly never hated Joker's TNBA redesign, I remember thinking as a kid that his creepy black eyes were really cool. I actually think my biggest gripe with it is how they dulled the highlight in his hair to be a bluish teal instead of green. But yeah, the Return of the Joker design is top notch
Well at least Mark Hamill is still the voice of Joker.
I think the black hair is cool because it makes him look like a 50s greaser
My favourite villain re-design from the TNBA era goes to Two-Face, an effectively small change but I love the cooler colour scheme and and the updated silhouette with the sharper lines/shape for ol' Harvey, something about it just works well imo.
For heroes my nod goes to Batgirl, her TNBA design might be my favourite Batgirl design out there along with Cass Cain's original Batgirl suit from No Man's Land, I think the design update for Babs matched the new style and energy of TNBA to a tee.
Scarecrow’s design and personality change was a great decision. It makes him so much scarier and more interesting. In BTAS scarecrow is kinda a skeleator villain who always boasts about how scary and powerful he is but then it always backfires on him and he always gets exposed to his own fear toxin and will have massive freak outs. However in TNBA Scarecrow is calm, he doesn’t boast or yell to make people scared of him, he just calmly talks with a dead expression. Also to mention he seems to have overcome the affects of his own fear toxin, no longer having massive freakouts. He's also taller and beefier which makes him physically more intimidating, like even a skilled fighter would be creeped out by him if they saw him. He's just so much scarier and better written. A tip for making good villains is never have them be driven by petty revenge and don’t have their own plans constantly backfire on them cause it makes them look stupid and weak. Scarecrow was always defeated by his own powers which made him look incompetent however not once in TNBA was he defeated by his own powers, Batman and Robin actively had to try hard to defeat him and almost failed. That's how to write a good villain
So much is preference. The story telling was still in point and led into Justice League and still worked in continuity. Great vid!
13:11 I was like where is he going with this "doc?" oh... OH... ni-nice. 😅😅😅 🤣
23:46 Absolute perfection... the seamless transition, the usage of the OG clip to make your point. Outstanding
27:57 Yes. YES.
Your videos are always of such high quality and a treat for DCAU lovers
Never seen a video, but I just have to say how much your intro took me back to Saturday morning cartoons, felt just like a broadcast cutaway from Toonami or WBKids
Great video! Didn't know the comic went out of it's way to give a canonical(?) explaination for how the new designs came to be, that's so cool!
As a kid I always liked the new Batman adventures animation style because it popped more with its dark vibrant colors. I also always liked the stories in BTAS and it’s animation style as well. As for the animation style in the new adventures, I always wondered as a kid why they did the change. Nonetheless, both worked in my opinion for what they were trying to do.
I thought that thumbnail said “like men” for a second there.
Yeah Joker, we know.
Honestly, I love it all. All of the designs through out the DCAU. Of course there are designs I prefer, but I feel like most of the time they maintain their look in a foundation and it mostly looks like clothing upgrades.
Speaking specifically on Joker, I think all 3 designs work well and serve a great purpose. I think the TNBA Joker stories have a lot more comedy to them and allow for the more animated joker to shine more with over exaggerated movement. Jokers Millions is a great example of that. My fav example is when he steals Lexs flying wing and says "I like to personalize all my stuff" to the camera.
Of course, as you have said, I think the final Joker design was the best one and a perfect blend of the 2 before and really scary too.