Longer timer on meddle and having it explode on contact with the ground instead of on timer. Maybe a little bit bigger and no line of sight for it to take effect because even a pixel off and it won't hit people. Clove's smokes and heal is fine. Ult is fine, maybe increase timer to 15s?
Everyone said clove was going to be broken on release and that theyd need a nerf but ive always disagreed. I think clove is an incredibly balanced agent that is an interesting inclusion to the controller roster. They likely wont see much pro play but clove is still incredibly fun to use which promotes the controller role and can allow for a strong pseudo duelist.
Yeah I agree, I used to play omen before them (and still does sometimes), and I see how difficult Clive can be to play as a controller sometimes, but still allows to have a lot of fun. The first thing that made me understand the way there are not broken is the fact that their kit isn’t really made for very original played, like lot of fun but if you compare to Omen it is waaaaaaaay less flexible, and I don’t see a lot of different ways to play Clove. Still love them, and I think I’ll switch a bit between them and omen bc I really wanna learn how to properly play omen
The very big issue is that sadly everything in valorant revolves around the pro play scene, which kinda kills it for casual players. I kinda wish they somehow had an alternative game mode where the characters were back to their original and/or had been buffed for casual play
@@JasonFree yeah that makes sense Like the map pool only there for the pro scenes And also the fact that lately announcement about contents are not made at the end of the season but instead are adjusted on some pro events
Wow, this is such a well-made, understanding and simple video! The way you formulate it into segments, the fact that the segments, the way you speak clearly and calmly, and my favorite: the nice and chill songs that play on the background or the audio effects when there's transitions, text is moving, etc. Keep this quality up, as this is not small channel quality, so you'll surely grow!
@@lanceshadow7335nah I don’t like having a bunch of stuff changed for pro play, because that’s not most players. If it’s only slightly overpowered, but it still works fine and competitive and casual then don’t change it.
The main problem with clove is that all the duelist main are playing her, so you have either lurking clove, which is the equivalent of a lurking brim, limited range can't smoke the site we're hitting, or you have a clove that doesn't know how to play smokes and goes out all aim no brain, just like a duelist, which she isn't
@@starredd i'm talking abt comp, where duelist mains just pick her thinking its the exact same thing as a reyna for example, my point is that they are NOT helping the team in part because they don't know how to play smokes, if it is a first contact for you then, play her in unrated, that's what its for
I feel like there’s room for clove to take the place of brimstone on certain maps like bind or fracture where he’s more popular than omen. Their ability to place multiple smokes quickly is helpful on those maps since fast executes seem to be strong on them. Since viper is also a popular pick, especially in double controller comps, clove’s defensive weakness can be covered up a little bit by playing both together.
I don't think they *need* to balance pro play for clove -- personally, I think they work best as a more selfish ranked pick a la reyna. perfect for someone confident with their mechanics, in a solo queue environment that hates playing smokes/more team based, communication-required unselfish agents. like yeah, you might see omen a lot more than clove in vct and pro play similar to reyna, but that doesn't mean they aren't a strong agent or fun to play in their own right for the majority of the ranked player base.
But do you think it will be enough for non pros to get ascendent or imo ? I mean ofc everything is possible but for example, I looove Clove but I think their kit is not very flexible, like I don’t see many ways to play them, unlike Omen who seems to alors very original plays when you have good game sense. So do you think that Clove’s weaknesses will be a very big disadvantage in high elos ?
@@himeyuxi7125 honestly, I don't think it's a big disadvantage. keeoh's already hit immortal in record time with clove, and I think it's hard to oversell the value of extra health, extra lives, and extra utility for your team when you go down. They don't have nearly as much flexibility in terms of playstyle as Omen, but then again, Omen's pretty unique in how much flexibility he DOES have - Astra and Brimstone certainly don't have his range of playstyles.
Maybe make the decay a placeable ability that can be thrown and toggled almost like a kj molly (but unbreakable like an astra star). Then it's easier to use it at the right time and it's a much less selfish ability since it can be used at a chokepoint where another teammate could be holding as well. It also makes it so the other team has to spend time or util to bait out the decay.
I agree although I think there would also be some merit in seeing if it would work better as a landmine or a tossable landmine with similar properties to a cypher tripwire (how it's only visible at a certain distance) and brimstones stim (how far it can be tossed)
I used to be a an omen & brim main so clove has been amazing for me. I know how to position myself to play around cloves smaller smoke radius like brims while also being able to play more aggressive like I would on omen but be able to heal or just revive myself if I get into a fight. Her heal also helps as a really good way to rotate quickly as it gives a speed boost.
wow im surprised by the quality of the vid, honestly br thought this was atleast a 100k sub youtuber, never give up wit this youtube thing im sure u will get more popularity then u would ever believe
I am a controller main & the only flaw I see in Omen (or even Viper) is that the time it takes to smoke is way too long as compared to someone like Brim where I can exploit my map knowledge and smoke from across the map in a jiffy.
cool video, i liked the visuals and the discussion. also, i agree, clove's c ability is extremely weak compared to other controllers and their kit just seems to lack what makes omen such a great aggresive agen: unpredictability. Take an example: omen's ult, recently buffed, can be used in so many different situations, like splitting sites, getting spike from a bad position, creating pressure through a lurk, or even gathering info. it is a great tool when used well. clove's ult just makes them more predictable: push, push, push. There are a dozen other small things that omen is just better in than clove: verticality, ability to reposition, combination of utility, one-waying. everything in their kit is timed, from heal, to ult, which makes the kit extremely one-dimensional and with a low skill ceiling.
part of wants to say Cloves ult should be able to be used at any point so long as theres a living team member, but then i can also see people stalling out till the enemy runs past for a few quick picks, though theres still that revive window to ready yourself for the return of clove.
Clove having an ability that needs her to be dead to use (technically 2) seems good since if the clove dies they still have use but it'll just make clove players peek to their death which will make it basically a 4.2 v 5 for your team
clove could shine as a flex between Duelist and controller as their playstyle wants you to be aggressive like a duelist but you have smokes. Gonna be interesting what the pros think of her.
@@Obi482as an omen/controller main, omen’s ult (with the new buff) is still somewhat lacking. its difficult to use, and i mainly just use it for info, to rotate quickly to help an anchor on maps like lotus or potentially split, or to occasionally close a door on ascent. using it aggressively is usually bad, but its decent for post plant 1v1’s like on split B site if spike is planted for heaven. imo, kj, viper, phoenix, and potentially raze have better ultimates that can be utilized in situations easier and provide better utility.
@@MrMan2006 I disagree. As an omen you have so much utility with your ult. You mentioned them but info, splitting site, rotations, etc. if you place your ult in the right spot it’s hard to predict where to look at the right moment. Especially when your opponent is trying to hold a choke on a site. I don’t think he is lacking at all in any department of his ult
@@MrMan2006 raze ult is the most inconsistent thing in the entire game. Can literally shoot at someone and they survive lol. And phoenix ult could be argued but it kinda falls in the same category as clove or iso. In my opinion
Clove is the reyna of smokes. They have a relatively self sufficent kit so they can manage on their own if their team is being a classic ranked team that doesnt want to cooperate.
clove is the perfect agent for me. i have the movement and aim of a duelist player but i want to be a team player and help my allies. their job being to 1 for 1 and die in a good spot is a really cool niche to have. i wanna seek out engagements and fight people but its cool that on clove it doesn't feel like trolling if i die. being rewarded for being good at dying is neat. i play them mid on basically every map. its a good spot to be able to smoke important sightlines on both sights, but also being able to seek engagements to get value out of their heal and nade. also being able to play a controller that gets to entry is really fun, especially if you have ult. they feel like a character that rewards good positioning and good timing as their abilities have much smaller windows of effectiveness compared to other characters, and require you to move around the map and make creative plays. they have strong fundamental tools that require you to be more proactive compared to other controllers to maintain tempo. they get to play riskier than other characters by tipping the odds in their favor because if you trade you're more useful while dead(unless you kill the enemy clove then its just funny) i think clove has a lot of potential. they have a difficulty curve to them that is very intangible, but is very rewarding when you do figure out how to get better on them. i think their ult is probably their hardest ability to use because when you press it everyone is looking at you. (that does mean you can make space for your team though which is a valuable tool to have.) ive found that it gets better the longer you wait to use it, if you res right away people can usually just repeek you or hunt you down, but if you wait your team can show up and you can make a coordinated push together at the front. even if you dont get a kill just making the space on borrowed time is valuable since you already died anyways, getting a kill is just a bonus. theyre like if a duelist had smokes, which makes them feel very different from the other controllers and i think you have to play them differently. they dont make space with their abilities in the same way and instead make space with their body because of how much effective HP they have theyre kind of like a tank. they wanna be in the front and they wanna be creating space for their teammates to trade them. plus dying as fast as possible and placing smokes for your teammates is more fun than being alive ps: they are a pistol round monster. full util light armor is really gross on them. meddle around a corner and right click with a classic and take their gun and you've got 150 health and increased ms.
One of my main issues is the post plant vs enemy clove. For example if u take the time extra risk to plant open and then take another risk to go back to main u got punished for it cause the dead clove can just smoke bomb and the teammate can just stick it
I feel like riot games is just trying to make more agents somewhat similar to reyna since she has a big problem in the pro games and competitive clove and iso give me that reyna type of vibe clove revive is like a reyna dismiss and her pick me up is just devour, iso double tap kinda feels like reyna getting more health in some sort of way it could be just be me but that was my thought
clove is much better than iso though imho. iso is a worse reyna by every metric - at least clove has some utility that is genuinely, reliably helpful to the team
i def think meddle should burst upon impact so it is easier for clove to make an impact during execs and retakes. also if it wasnt LOS i think it would also be easier but that might be too much
one of the most frustrating parts is that you cant ult on defense if the bomb is down, gatekeeping abilities to certain halves is so bs, its like if gekko could only plant spike with wingman and not defuse
the problem is people dont know how to place smokes and introducing her makes it even worse, because once instalockers get jett and reyna, usual reyna mains will lock clove and miss all smokes and sometimes not even use her after-death smokes.
great vid, I personally think clove is super powerfull in the current meta, i mean essentially they take reynas role as first contact and with her orb and smokes can create more space than reyna. I think they even have a space in PRO play, I think we will see them mixed with a viper and replace a duelist slot (something PRX does often), I think most "calm" t1 groups wont mix them in but inovative and aggressive based teams will (PRX, LOUD, Sentintals, possible even g2)
Just to add on what im seeing in the comments, I personally play a lot of clove now (im imo2 atm), so I feel pretty comfrotrable in saying the following: if you think clove has a weak kit, you are not playing them right.... they are best combod with another controler, to fully bring out them kit, but if you dont have another one you just have to hold mid controll or play on the oppiste site as the sentinal (on deffense). they are to contolers what chamber is to sentinals, you need to learn how to play them as their own role and not as another controler...
@@winterwinter6558oh if you are immo that means you probably have a good lvl I love Clove and play them all the time, mostly bc I still don’t master opens tp, and if I had to compare omen and clove kits, I would say that their strength are not in the same place Omen’s kit seems to only be very powerful if you have good game sense/knowledge, and if you master the tp bc they are allows you incredibly original and unexpected plays. But his abilities in themselves don’t appear very strong if not in the right hands While for clove it seems to just be powerful, like simple use, simple effect, easy to understand and that’s what making them a good agent for beginners I think, but I don’t see many ways to play them like omen, less flexible in a sense. Which might be a disadvantage in some situations where a good omen can just create advantageous situations suing correctly his abilities and manipulating the enemy when Clove’s player can only count on their raw skill. This is my observation as a bronze 2 so i wonder what you think as a high elo
As a flex player who picks up omen on sunset and Lotus I did like playing her , it helped me get more kills(also solo carry to some wins) and understand why people like Reyna so much but i dearly missed the omen blind in order to take sites Also the smokes fade too early
Instead of nerfing omen, they should buff Clove. Her ult 'time available to ult' should be increased significantly, because now clove can only ult instantly
yeah like you don't even really have time to asses if you're in a good position to ult and you more or less have to know before you die, if the future situation where you could die is good to ult in their and the 2 seconds of time to run really isn't much especially since they take so long to pull out their gun after it ends like people can just straight up chase you and shoot you before you can even pull out your gun to try to fight back, it's literally only good if you have a teammate to bait you, so that they chase you right into your teammate to get an easy kill it'd be better if their q didn't explode until a set time after contact with a surface to allow for lineups because like being able to setup lineups for your team to peek off of would be incredibly useful, it feels like they basically made Omen with duelist abilities
@@Lyrcane no one is saying it isn't overpowered, but buffing it in this way would be ok as long as they nerfed say the time clove needs to get a kill to avoid dying this would create a situation where clove can revive themselves and get into cover, but the enemies also will have a much easier time to stall them clove ult gets caught on corners a lot, and with only 2 seconds, you kinda just have to accept your fate, if you fall victim to a wonky collision box so being able to see where you are to actually plan a path out before ulting would be super good, because as it stands now, their ult almost exclusively gets them killed
I love my they/them controller, but all these points are so right. Omen offers a lot more for the team rn, I so wanna play him but I prefer Clove's smoking like Brim. Also I just love their design.
Ok, let’s do some quick maths. The first revives (to my knowledge) were Sage And Peenecks. Then Chamber. Now clove. That’s 4! 4 CLASSES THAT CAN ******* REVIVE! OH WAIT, VALORANT CENSORED **** EVEN THOUGH NEON SAYS ‘OI, I AM PISSED!’’
Cloves decay is just a raze nade that’s worse in every way I think the decay should last for 6 seconds and should activate off contact with an object like a yoru flash
People always yapping when a new agent released saying they will be broken and look really strong. It was kinda obvious upon her kit being released that shes not that strong.
overall i would much prefer an omen over a filled smoker playing clove imo, and smokes arent even that hard to play most people just dont use their brain, oh and lets not forget you cant replace omen maps with clove its just not possible if youre a solo smoker if its double smokes imo i think its fine because other smokers like (omen) can make up for clove's weaknesses but do require a slower play style on attack like you mentioned in the video with viper and clove, overall solo smokes youre better off playing omen and this is my opinion some of you may disagree but i stand on business
clove puts not enough pressure on the map to be a good aggressive agent and she doesnt have enough depth in her abilitys to be a good controller. The meddle needs to either stun or last a lot longer to be effective. The heal also needs to last longer. Also make the smokes either be filled like brimstone smokes or increase the range.
I don't get why people say clove is weak or strong? she plays like a rayna with a decay instead of blinds. I don't think she is fit for meta and pro-play but is the best solo-rank experience. You play a duelist with her that doesn't need to aggressively ping where to smoke and still die because you are now the player that misplaced the smoke.
I really don’t agree with clove being C tier on icebox in pro play. Clove could easily fill the duelist role as it is often an unnecessary pick as movement on A is better with zip line than any dive duelist’s abilities; which is why many teams pick Reyna in pro on Icebox (ie: aspas on LEV)
nah nerfing omen wont be that much of a deal , the reason why we use omen in pro play is because of the one ways , clove cannot do that . nothing else in omen's kit can actually be nerfed , nothing stands out or is overpowered , his blind could technically be nerfed but like it doesnt do much.
Clove is detabably worse than harbor for ranked and can actually become a problem. Her ULT is only strong when pushing into enemy spawn, you're able to play way more aggressive and even if you die you can just get out. The problem is getting into the site first to make this ult have its full potential. If you have a duelist that locks in Reyna, 10% pickrate will most likely be in there. Fine, normal to have 1 reyna, how about another duelist? But if theres a cypher on the other team, You're fucked. If noone is able to push onto site, Your ult is pretty much useless and you will die on the spot if you don't get into site again without getting rid of trip wires. If you have a yoru (doesnt exist in comp games) sure you could get into site, if only he had way better pickrates. Raze is common but they dont have a brain. Fade is never played, Gekko is played mostly in terrible execution. Shortest smokes with shortest range, worse Iso Q, Reyna heal, I think stronger in pros tho with more coordinated teams.
I think that clove is trying to fit a role that controllers generally don’t have to fill in situations, which is why omen is there, he can play passive and aggressive, riot should not have made a controller when her kit is not about controlling, sad.
She's actually good for pro play I think pair her with Astra I did it with my five stack it works pretty well ig have gekko and cypher then go for raze
Clove identify as non binary so clove is a they/them if you’re wondering what’s that I don’t know either it probably something riot put in for more diversity
not sure if this is a problem with english not being your primary language but they/them doesn't have to be plural, It can be used as a singular for all kinds of contexts
@@rev0live752 Non-binary means that you don't identify as male or female but fall somewhere in-between. And no, Clove is not a girl. They're non-binary. If you wish to learn more you're free to google around.
Why i hate clove: 1. Duelist mains cant smoke 2. She has ONLY 1 controller ability, the rest of her kit is a worse iso undercut, a better rayna heal and a phoenix ult (all 3 are duelists 3. She is 100% rushed in design, they took the exact code from brim, painted the interface purple and took omens charges and cooldown 4. Her being "non-binary" is way too political for a game that is meant for everyone to have fun ( before you say "shouldnt non-binary people also be allowed to have fun?" They can without riot needing to show who they're voting for) i also wouldnt have that big of a problem with the non-binary tag if it wasnt so clear that shes a woman, like atleast do something like what overwatch is doing with you genuinly not being able to tell 5. Its also obvious that theyre making more simple agents for the mobile and console ports of the game that are coming wich i hate because i love a complicated agent.
What buffs would be good for Clove, that would be good for pro play?
probably a small meddle buff and a omens blind nerf cuz its so strong
Longer timer on meddle and having it explode on contact with the ground instead of on timer. Maybe a little bit bigger and no line of sight for it to take effect because even a pixel off and it won't hit people. Clove's smokes and heal is fine. Ult is fine, maybe increase timer to 15s?
every other smokes : throw a cool ass line
clove : hAllo :D
Noööø peěkin'
allu :D
no peekang
@@the_second_channel shayt ei lawst me pet rowk
clove ya :D
Everyone said clove was going to be broken on release and that theyd need a nerf but ive always disagreed. I think clove is an incredibly balanced agent that is an interesting inclusion to the controller roster. They likely wont see much pro play but clove is still incredibly fun to use which promotes the controller role and can allow for a strong pseudo duelist.
Yeah I agree, I used to play omen before them (and still does sometimes), and I see how difficult Clive can be to play as a controller sometimes, but still allows to have a lot of fun.
The first thing that made me understand the way there are not broken is the fact that their kit isn’t really made for very original played, like lot of fun but if you compare to Omen it is waaaaaaaay less flexible, and I don’t see a lot of different ways to play Clove.
Still love them, and I think I’ll switch a bit between them and omen bc I really wanna learn how to properly play omen
she's annoying
The very big issue is that sadly everything in valorant revolves around the pro play scene, which kinda kills it for casual players. I kinda wish they somehow had an alternative game mode where the characters were back to their original and/or had been buffed for casual play
@@JasonFree yeah that makes sense
Like the map pool only there for the pro scenes
And also the fact that lately announcement about contents are not made at the end of the season but instead are adjusted on some pro events
Wow, this is such a well-made, understanding and simple video! The way you formulate it into segments, the fact that the segments, the way you speak clearly and calmly, and my favorite: the nice and chill songs that play on the background or the audio effects when there's transitions, text is moving, etc. Keep this quality up, as this is not small channel quality, so you'll surely grow!
Thanks, that means a lot!
Dont nerf omen for clove thats so dumb. Omen is alrdy balanced. I would say buff Clove instead.
omen is def not balanced in pro play, his paranoia op af. Viper also needs a massive nerf.
@@lanceshadow7335 after viper's last nerf she is almost underpowered
@@lanceshadow7335 Hope my comp and unrated omens smoke our entry to not be nerfed
@@Haileys_C0metviper is literally the best controller in the game aside from maybe omen what are you talking about
@@lanceshadow7335nah I don’t like having a bunch of stuff changed for pro play, because that’s not most players. If it’s only slightly overpowered, but it still works fine and competitive and casual then don’t change it.
The main problem with clove is that all the duelist main are playing her, so you have either lurking clove, which is the equivalent of a lurking brim, limited range can't smoke the site we're hitting, or you have a clove that doesn't know how to play smokes and goes out all aim no brain, just like a duelist, which she isn't
clove is kind of an first contact tho if u know ur committing
@@starredd then don't play her in comp lol
@@diogoferreira7427 ?
This is my problem with clove, im alright with her but usually play like a duelist because i was a neon main. And had to seitch for fps😢
@@starredd i'm talking abt comp, where duelist mains just pick her thinking its the exact same thing as a reyna for example, my point is that they are NOT helping the team in part because they don't know how to play smokes, if it is a first contact for you then, play her in unrated, that's what its for
The video quality is really insane bro and your voice and the music is so calming, please continue what you are doing
I feel like there’s room for clove to take the place of brimstone on certain maps like bind or fracture where he’s more popular than omen. Their ability to place multiple smokes quickly is helpful on those maps since fast executes seem to be strong on them.
Since viper is also a popular pick, especially in double controller comps, clove’s defensive weakness can be covered up a little bit by playing both together.
I don't think they *need* to balance pro play for clove -- personally, I think they work best as a more selfish ranked pick a la reyna. perfect for someone confident with their mechanics, in a solo queue environment that hates playing smokes/more team based, communication-required unselfish agents. like yeah, you might see omen a lot more than clove in vct and pro play similar to reyna, but that doesn't mean they aren't a strong agent or fun to play in their own right for the majority of the ranked player base.
But do you think it will be enough for non pros to get ascendent or imo ? I mean ofc everything is possible but for example, I looove Clove but I think their kit is not very flexible, like I don’t see many ways to play them, unlike Omen who seems to alors very original plays when you have good game sense.
So do you think that Clove’s weaknesses will be a very big disadvantage in high elos ?
@@himeyuxi7125 honestly, I don't think it's a big disadvantage. keeoh's already hit immortal in record time with clove, and I think it's hard to oversell the value of extra health, extra lives, and extra utility for your team when you go down. They don't have nearly as much flexibility in terms of playstyle as Omen, but then again, Omen's pretty unique in how much flexibility he DOES have - Astra and Brimstone certainly don't have his range of playstyles.
Maybe make the decay a placeable ability that can be thrown and toggled almost like a kj molly (but unbreakable like an astra star). Then it's easier to use it at the right time and it's a much less selfish ability since it can be used at a chokepoint where another teammate could be holding as well. It also makes it so the other team has to spend time or util to bait out the decay.
I agree although I think there would also be some merit in seeing if it would work better as a landmine or a tossable landmine with similar properties to a cypher tripwire (how it's only visible at a certain distance) and brimstones stim (how far it can be tossed)
Wake up babe, FWD just dropped a new video!
such good quality and video great bruv
I used to be a an omen & brim main so clove has been amazing for me. I know how to position myself to play around cloves smaller smoke radius like brims while also being able to play more aggressive like I would on omen but be able to heal or just revive myself if I get into a fight. Her heal also helps as a really good way to rotate quickly as it gives a speed boost.
wow im surprised by the quality of the vid, honestly br thought this was atleast a 100k sub youtuber, never give up wit this youtube thing im sure u will get more popularity then u would ever believe
I am a controller main & the only flaw I see in Omen (or even Viper) is that the time it takes to smoke is way too long as compared to someone like Brim where I can exploit my map knowledge and smoke from across the map in a jiffy.
do u not know omen fast smoke tech
@@kaiaxdxd7501watisit
cool video, i liked the visuals and the discussion. also, i agree, clove's c ability is extremely weak compared to other controllers and their kit just seems to lack what makes omen such a great aggresive agen: unpredictability.
Take an example: omen's ult, recently buffed, can be used in so many different situations, like splitting sites, getting spike from a bad position, creating pressure through a lurk, or even gathering info. it is a great tool when used well.
clove's ult just makes them more predictable: push, push, push.
There are a dozen other small things that omen is just better in than clove: verticality, ability to reposition, combination of utility, one-waying.
everything in their kit is timed, from heal, to ult, which makes the kit extremely one-dimensional and with a low skill ceiling.
I like how when you were explaining your voice sounded a lot like the character beginner guide voice from the arcsys channel
in this behemoth typhoon
part of wants to say Cloves ult should be able to be used at any point so long as theres a living team member, but then i can also see people stalling out till the enemy runs past for a few quick picks, though theres still that revive window to ready yourself for the return of clove.
Clove having an ability that needs her to be dead to use (technically 2) seems good since if the clove dies they still have use but it'll just make clove players peek to their death which will make it basically a 4.2 v 5 for your team
clove could shine as a flex between Duelist and controller as their playstyle wants you to be aggressive like a duelist but you have smokes. Gonna be interesting what the pros think of her.
video quality is insaneeeeee
Omen doesnt need a nerf, hes not op, just very solid utility with an ult thats not entirely useless. Clove probably needs a buff instead of
Omens ult is easily top 3 strongest in the game. It literally provides everything and more. You just need to know how to use it efficiently
@@Obi482as an omen/controller main, omen’s ult (with the new buff) is still somewhat lacking. its difficult to use, and i mainly just use it for info, to rotate quickly to help an anchor on maps like lotus or potentially split, or to occasionally close a door on ascent. using it aggressively is usually bad, but its decent for post plant 1v1’s like on split B site if spike is planted for heaven.
imo, kj, viper, phoenix, and potentially raze have better ultimates that can be utilized in situations easier and provide better utility.
@@Obi482 Omes ult is his weakest ability.
@@MrMan2006 I disagree. As an omen you have so much utility with your ult. You mentioned them but info, splitting site, rotations, etc. if you place your ult in the right spot it’s hard to predict where to look at the right moment. Especially when your opponent is trying to hold a choke on a site. I don’t think he is lacking at all in any department of his ult
@@MrMan2006 raze ult is the most inconsistent thing in the entire game. Can literally shoot at someone and they survive lol. And phoenix ult could be argued but it kinda falls in the same category as clove or iso. In my opinion
Clove is the reyna of smokes. They have a relatively self sufficent kit so they can manage on their own if their team is being a classic ranked team that doesnt want to cooperate.
really good video! i am very excited to see how the meta shifts!
clove is the perfect agent for me. i have the movement and aim of a duelist player but i want to be a team player and help my allies. their job being to 1 for 1 and die in a good spot is a really cool niche to have. i wanna seek out engagements and fight people but its cool that on clove it doesn't feel like trolling if i die. being rewarded for being good at dying is neat.
i play them mid on basically every map. its a good spot to be able to smoke important sightlines on both sights, but also being able to seek engagements to get value out of their heal and nade. also being able to play a controller that gets to entry is really fun, especially if you have ult. they feel like a character that rewards good positioning and good timing as their abilities have much smaller windows of effectiveness compared to other characters, and require you to move around the map and make creative plays. they have strong fundamental tools that require you to be more proactive compared to other controllers to maintain tempo. they get to play riskier than other characters by tipping the odds in their favor because if you trade you're more useful while dead(unless you kill the enemy clove then its just funny)
i think clove has a lot of potential. they have a difficulty curve to them that is very intangible, but is very rewarding when you do figure out how to get better on them. i think their ult is probably their hardest ability to use because when you press it everyone is looking at you. (that does mean you can make space for your team though which is a valuable tool to have.) ive found that it gets better the longer you wait to use it, if you res right away people can usually just repeek you or hunt you down, but if you wait your team can show up and you can make a coordinated push together at the front. even if you dont get a kill just making the space on borrowed time is valuable since you already died anyways, getting a kill is just a bonus.
theyre like if a duelist had smokes, which makes them feel very different from the other controllers and i think you have to play them differently. they dont make space with their abilities in the same way and instead make space with their body because of how much effective HP they have theyre kind of like a tank. they wanna be in the front and they wanna be creating space for their teammates to trade them. plus dying as fast as possible and placing smokes for your teammates is more fun than being alive
ps: they are a pistol round monster. full util light armor is really gross on them. meddle around a corner and right click with a classic and take their gun and you've got 150 health and increased ms.
One of my main issues is the post plant vs enemy clove. For example if u take the time extra risk to plant open and then take another risk to go back to main u got punished for it cause the dead clove can just smoke bomb and the teammate can just stick it
Metal is really good with other until like Sova darts or Kayo nade
Triple smoke here we go
Heyy, i do enjoyed your content man.Keep it up brother 🔥🔥
My favorite Valorant deep essay boy just released new video ❤
I feel like riot games is just trying to make more agents somewhat similar to reyna since she has a big problem in the pro games and competitive
clove and iso give me that reyna type of vibe
clove revive is like a reyna dismiss and her pick me up is just devour,
iso double tap kinda feels like reyna getting more health in some sort of way
it could be just be me but that was my thought
clove is much better than iso though imho. iso is a worse reyna by every metric - at least clove has some utility that is genuinely, reliably helpful to the team
@@ciuuin4098Iso essentially is a less selfish reyna.
@@caspian-t reyna's blind and dismiss is leagues more useful to the team than iso's vulnerable and the sad wall.
i mess with the calm vibe
Your voice is very calm
i def think meddle should burst upon impact so it is easier for clove to make an impact during execs and retakes. also if it wasnt LOS i think it would also be easier but that might be too much
FYI, During the intro, I was finding it hard to hear what you were saying because the background music was almost as loud, if not louder 😅
one of the most frustrating parts is that you cant ult on defense if the bomb is down, gatekeeping abilities to certain halves is so bs, its like if gekko could only plant spike with wingman and not defuse
Harbors rechargeable wall is possibly the strongest stalling ability in the game
the problem is people dont know how to place smokes and introducing her makes it even worse, because once instalockers get jett and reyna, usual reyna mains will lock clove and miss all smokes and sometimes not even use her after-death smokes.
great vid, I personally think clove is super powerfull in the current meta, i mean essentially they take reynas role as first contact and with her orb and smokes can create more space than reyna. I think they even have a space in PRO play, I think we will see them mixed with a viper and replace a duelist slot (something PRX does often), I think most "calm" t1 groups wont mix them in but inovative and aggressive based teams will (PRX, LOUD, Sentintals, possible even g2)
Just to add on what im seeing in the comments, I personally play a lot of clove now (im imo2 atm), so I feel pretty comfrotrable in saying the following: if you think clove has a weak kit, you are not playing them right.... they are best combod with another controler, to fully bring out them kit, but if you dont have another one you just have to hold mid controll or play on the oppiste site as the sentinal (on deffense). they are to contolers what chamber is to sentinals, you need to learn how to play them as their own role and not as another controler...
@@winterwinter6558oh if you are immo that means you probably have a good lvl
I love Clove and play them all the time, mostly bc I still don’t master opens tp, and if I had to compare omen and clove kits, I would say that their strength are not in the same place
Omen’s kit seems to only be very powerful if you have good game sense/knowledge, and if you master the tp bc they are allows you incredibly original and unexpected plays. But his abilities in themselves don’t appear very strong if not in the right hands
While for clove it seems to just be powerful, like simple use, simple effect, easy to understand and that’s what making them a good agent for beginners I think, but I don’t see many ways to play them like omen, less flexible in a sense.
Which might be a disadvantage in some situations where a good omen can just create advantageous situations suing correctly his abilities and manipulating the enemy when Clove’s player can only count on their raw skill.
This is my observation as a bronze 2 so i wonder what you think as a high elo
As a flex player who picks up omen on sunset and Lotus
I did like playing her , it helped me get more kills(also solo carry to some wins) and understand why people like Reyna so much but i dearly missed the omen blind in order to take sites
Also the smokes fade too early
Instead of nerfing omen, they should buff Clove. Her ult 'time available to ult' should be increased significantly, because now clove can only ult instantly
yeah like you don't even really have time to asses if you're in a good position to ult and you more or less have to know before you die, if the future situation where you could die is good to ult in their and the 2 seconds of time to run really isn't much especially since they take so long to pull out their gun after it ends like people can just straight up chase you and shoot you before you can even pull out your gun to try to fight back, it's literally only good if you have a teammate to bait you, so that they chase you right into your teammate to get an easy kill
it'd be better if their q didn't explode until a set time after contact with a surface to allow for lineups because like being able to setup lineups for your team to peek off of would be incredibly useful, it feels like they basically made Omen with duelist abilities
Hell no
Any revive is instantly overpowered
It should probably be nerfed to 8 ult points
@@Lyrcane no one is saying it isn't overpowered, but buffing it in this way would be ok as long as they nerfed say the time clove needs to get a kill to avoid dying
this would create a situation where clove can revive themselves and get into cover, but the enemies also will have a much easier time to stall them
clove ult gets caught on corners a lot, and with only 2 seconds, you kinda just have to accept your fate, if you fall victim to a wonky collision box so being able to see where you are to actually plan a path out before ulting would be super good, because as it stands now, their ult almost exclusively gets them killed
@@Lyrcanejust like when people said sage ultimate is op in reality not really
Clove has they/them pronouns. Just a reminder :)
I love my they/them controller, but all these points are so right. Omen offers a lot more for the team rn, I so wanna play him but I prefer Clove's smoking like Brim. Also I just love their design.
Ok, let’s do some quick maths. The first revives (to my knowledge) were Sage And Peenecks. Then Chamber. Now clove. That’s 4! 4 CLASSES THAT CAN ******* REVIVE! OH WAIT, VALORANT CENSORED **** EVEN THOUGH NEON SAYS ‘OI, I AM PISSED!’’
For me she is the perfect ranked agent, selfish enough to play for myself and selfless enough that i can help my team with good placed/useful smokes
Cloves decay is just a raze nade that’s worse in every way I think the decay should last for 6 seconds and should activate off contact with an object like a yoru flash
Nice work
i feel like clove is good but people arent playing her right if that makes sense?
People always yapping when a new agent released saying they will be broken and look really strong. It was kinda obvious upon her kit being released that shes not that strong.
😰clove is scottish OH MY GOD
Wasn’t double wall controller comp popularized by fnatic not loud?
No
Audio mixing is a bit unbalanced, found it hard to understand what you were saying at times over the music.
Other than that, good looking video!
overall i would much prefer an omen over a filled smoker playing clove imo, and smokes arent even that hard to play most people just dont use their brain, oh and lets not forget you cant replace omen maps with clove its just not possible if youre a solo smoker if its double smokes imo i think its fine because other smokers like (omen) can make up for clove's weaknesses but do require a slower play style on attack like you mentioned in the video with viper and clove, overall solo smokes youre better off playing omen and this is my opinion some of you may disagree but i stand on business
clove puts not enough pressure on the map to be a good aggressive agent and she doesnt have enough depth in her abilitys to be a good controller. The meddle needs to either stun or last a lot longer to be effective. The heal also needs to last longer. Also make the smokes either be filled like brimstone smokes or increase the range.
I don't get why people say clove is weak or strong? she plays like a rayna with a decay instead of blinds. I don't think she is fit for meta and pro-play but is the best solo-rank experience. You play a duelist with her that doesn't need to aggressively ping where to smoke and still die because you are now the player that misplaced the smoke.
welp, they nerfed the shit outta viper...
they legit seem wo much fun i might get back to valorant just to test them out
Riot really wants to turn everyone into a duelist
I really don’t agree with clove being C tier on icebox in pro play. Clove could easily fill the duelist role as it is often an unnecessary pick as movement on A is better with zip line than any dive duelist’s abilities; which is why many teams pick Reyna in pro on Icebox (ie: aspas on LEV)
nah nerfing omen wont be that much of a deal , the reason why we use omen in pro play is because of the one ways , clove cannot do that . nothing else in omen's kit can actually be nerfed , nothing stands out or is overpowered , his blind could technically be nerfed but like it doesnt do much.
Clove is detabably worse than harbor for ranked and can actually become a problem. Her ULT is only strong when pushing into enemy spawn, you're able to play way more aggressive and even if you die you can just get out. The problem is getting into the site first to make this ult have its full potential. If you have a duelist that locks in Reyna, 10% pickrate will most likely be in there. Fine, normal to have 1 reyna, how about another duelist? But if theres a cypher on the other team, You're fucked. If noone is able to push onto site, Your ult is pretty much useless and you will die on the spot if you don't get into site again without getting rid of trip wires. If you have a yoru (doesnt exist in comp games) sure you could get into site, if only he had way better pickrates. Raze is common but they dont have a brain. Fade is never played, Gekko is played mostly in terrible execution. Shortest smokes with shortest range, worse Iso Q, Reyna heal, I think stronger in pros tho with more coordinated teams.
and also can be a problem because in low elos they focuis more on killing then smoking.
I think that clove is trying to fit a role that controllers generally don’t have to fill in situations, which is why omen is there, he can play passive and aggressive, riot should not have made a controller when her kit is not about controlling, sad.
She's actually good for pro play I think pair her with Astra I did it with my five stack it works pretty well ig have gekko and cypher then go for raze
Honestly clove smoke isnt 13.5 sec iirc its 14 sec (gone by hitting 15 sec cooldown mark)
Edit: even tho 0.5 sec difference sometimes it is matter
so sad to see that my baby omen will be needing a nerf soon :(
Deadlock main here; ex-fucking-scuse me-
Fair
the omen flash is just better, plus the TPs and fake TPs that easily confuse opponents
MAN SPEAKING FACTS🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯💯
I think dualist players should try to play clove, because you have to be fast and aggreasive
Bros sound is majestic *moans aggressively and spreading them cheeks*
they shouldve made her more for teamplay since its a controller but i love her tho
she a good agent and nice vid
"Not dead yet" sounds dumb, "Second Chance" sounds a lot better
do you guys have any other name?
i was reyna main, but now i rather play clove than reyna. cuz few reason
not die first, no one gonna complain clove lurk, the heal is better
Yeah same and I also understand how to smoke so it’s just a win win
Well they nerfed viper to the ground
bro gonna cry about the viper nerf
she, herself is an okay smoke, If the players are not just duelist players who are very braindead, and cannot do their roles properly as a smoker.
What’s your rank? Would be useful to know in terms of what perspective you are making these claims from.
yeah as of now clove is only good by just abusing shotguns and abusing the overheal glitch
their issue is that theyre in valorant
She is not strong but she is so good
What Omen nerf is needed? He is already in a good place right now, Clove needs buff and utility wise she's shit.
Clove has a problem: Her gender identity
IT IS NOT A IPAD
what is it then
main problem is an "it"
😂
idk how valorant continues to ensure the game is as boring as possible
wait why is this guy saying they?? clove is one person
Clove identify as non binary so clove is a they/them if you’re wondering what’s that I don’t know either it probably something riot put in for more diversity
It's singular they, used when a person's gender is unknown/the person is nonbinary or just prefers they/them pronouns.
not sure if this is a problem with english not being your primary language but they/them doesn't have to be plural, It can be used as a singular for all kinds of contexts
@@oinkayaya wait what does non binary mean? also we know clove is a girl
@@rev0live752 Non-binary means that you don't identify as male or female but fall somewhere in-between.
And no, Clove is not a girl. They're non-binary.
If you wish to learn more you're free to google around.
Why i hate clove:
1. Duelist mains cant smoke
2. She has ONLY 1 controller ability, the rest of her kit is a worse iso undercut, a better rayna heal and a phoenix ult (all 3 are duelists
3. She is 100% rushed in design, they took the exact code from brim, painted the interface purple and took omens charges and cooldown
4. Her being "non-binary" is way too political for a game that is meant for everyone to have fun ( before you say "shouldnt non-binary people also be allowed to have fun?" They can without riot needing to show who they're voting for) i also wouldnt have that big of a problem with the non-binary tag if it wasnt so clear that shes a woman, like atleast do something like what overwatch is doing with you genuinly not being able to tell
5. Its also obvious that theyre making more simple agents for the mobile and console ports of the game that are coming wich i hate because i love a complicated agent.