If you have excessive moisture in your home in the winter just run a dehumidifier. Solves the problem. I have issues with condensation and mold on my windows, as soon as I started running a dehumidifier it has solved my issue, no more condensation, no more mold
I lived in Ukraine during long blackouts and ONE thing I learned very quickly without heat (and there is no heat if you dont have power for a weeks, trust me, you need power for modern systems as all of them use pumps) your house gets cold fast, so please, insulate your houses, it will give you confidence in this times and also bring your heating bill down
A fireplace in the living room/dining area would be a really good backup, preferably with integrated stove plates. Would that be common in the Ukraine?
@@ChristianWagner888 old houses were build around fireplace. In more modern builings (1970+) only riches have fireplace, other have wood boilers, and it needs pump to circulate water to panel heaters
@@edc1569 I'd pray for that but every one of my colleges in UK said its cold inside their house, +17 on average while at my home in Ukraine we kept 22 :D
@@mr_DIY interesting that most modern homes in the Ukraine do not include a fireplace any more. A minimal solar system with lithium batteries should be able to keep circulating pumps and control electronics running. A modern heating circulating pump needs less than 20 Watts. It would be relatively inexpensive to add such a system as a backup.
There's a guy on YT, Glyn Hudson, who last year installed a haet pump in his house, with some surprising results. His 2 bed house is mainly solid wall construction and end of terrace. It has double glazing throughout, good insulation and good airtightness. He wanted to aim for a 4+ COP with a low flow temperature of between 30-35C. He was replacing an LPG gas boiler. He had to upgrade all the rads to account for the lower flow temp. One year later and his results were excellent. He achieved a COP of 4.2, flow temp of 35C and his house was warm throughout. His electricity costs for 9 month period was £600. I think what surprised me was he achieved this in a solid wall house with only loft insulation and UPVC windows, no solid wall insualtion.
So he's paid out £10,000 for a heating system that breaks even with a gas boiler!!! Please tell what the point of that is?? COP of 4 is the equivalent of paying for gas as it 4x cheaper than electric, In other words he's completely wasted his time & money, Until electricity prices reduce your not saving anything compared to a high efficiency gas boiler 🤦♂️
Hi Roger at Skill builder, I follow many of your informative videos (Utube) and find a lot of tips very good. We have air source heating in a bungalow and must say that it was several years learning curve to get accustomed to it. The local Authority installed it but never demonstrated how to get the best from it. I have watched many videos of info and understand fairly well how to get the best use. On your subject of mould and damp: we have had extractors fitted in bathroom and kitchen which sense moisture, we also use a Dehumidifier when cooking or airing washing, I recently purchased a passive dehumidifier which works amazingly well collecting about a litre of water in a month. The portable electric Dehumidifier is cheap to run and tends to return warm air into the room and the chemical Dehumidifier needs a new cartridge about every eight weeks. Hope this info helps your followers. Thanks Arty
I was having issues with some damp when moving into my flat, biggest problem is the bathroom is in the centre of the flat. Tried different de humidifiers (Gel and small de humidifiers are pointless in my experience), different tricks to reduce (A channel recommended a window vac for after the shower, didn't really work for me). In the end simplified a vent pipe for the bathroom (Had a flexible hose which I replaced for cut bits of pipe) and opening the windows for a few hours a day worked for me, so I tend open 2 windows to get flow through for about 2 hours a day during winter. Also its worth getting a temperature stat with humidity so you can experiment yourself.
I had condensation issues last winter. I started opening the windows once or twice a day for 2 or 3 minutes that seems to have stopped the condensation so far this winter. I don't think I loose too much heat as the fresh air soon gets warm.
@@danieladams7919 I do better than that, I uses 6 18" fans to create a through draft of 1200l/s, you have to use bungees to keep the duvet down, but no sign of damp.
Just a few years younger than you. I remember frost on inside of window panes right up to late 1970s in digs in central London. We slept in sleeping bags with socks and woolly hats. It was a cold winter, snow blew under the eaves and onto the lath and plaster above the bedrooms, pipes were lead and ran up outside of the building (basement flat, 1st floor office, we were on top two floors in Manchester Street, W1) so they burst and we were fetching water in buckets from the basement for three months. Just wear thermal underwear with a scarf or a buff from a bike shop.
i grew up in the 90s with no heating as all gas applianes were condemned and we were too poor to have it fixed. you could peel sheets of ice off the inside of the windows. i wore 2 sets of clothes, hat and gloves to bed. often i barely slept as shivered through the night. i survived. it was miserably shit and i dont blame anyone not wanting to put up with feeling cold
I grew up in a salted goldfish bowl in a funfair at minus 400 degrees with glass shards and rusty nails poured on the family daily. Actually, grew up with my mum, unable to afford heating bar a one bottle gas fire, secondhand mattresses, damp all over the walls, couldn't afford a bath so had to stand in the kitchen sink (when young of course), no shower, shoes that didn't fit until my feet bled as I was forced to put them on for school, couldn't afford wallpaper so had secondhand comic pages glued to the wall with paste made from old flour. Whilst my father had his own aeroplane and flew me to his yacht in the south of France for holidays. Strange life isn't it... Not sure where these posts came from or why, but life does fascinate me, especially when so many foreigners come over and live extremely well for doing sod all and say 'we' repressed them. Did I? Did we? (thinking of the lads posting above). I don't recall breaking the law and do remember having several jobs as a teenager (usually 4 as well as the Territorial Army, plus college), always ready to help others and keen to learn and get on, then spent years running my own aid organisation 100% out of my own pocket for people and children less well, mostly off in European war zones and orphanages (Bosnia, Poland, Russia). I'll never forget the Catholic Sisters of a very poor orphanage in SW Ireland in the early 90s giving us the WW1 straw ex British army mattresses to use for aid workers on one of my busses so we could get going on one trip, nor the mother who got on her knees to say thanks in Bosnia for getting her little son laughing for the first time in years after seeing the rest of his family blown to pieces. Are we that bad? Am I that bad? Just a bit sick of the scroungers, economic migrants posing as refugees, race grifters and blamers now, and that certainly includes 'our' politicians, the inept and corrupt and either way unaffordable UK 'family' courts and the shite UK thought police. Here's to those genuinely with less than us who cannot help themselves who are now pushed out of help's way by the despicable.
My old double glazing used to stream with water every morning, and I was getting mold in the corners of rooms. After installing a piv 0 water on the windows and 0 mold. Yes it can be cooler in the hall but it’s 100% fixed my issues
Good video Roger, only one thing, a breezy cold morning can change the air inside a house in minutes and introduce near bone dry air when there is a frost or at least dew. This seems wasteful opening windows even for 3 or 4 minutes but the thermal mass of that air is minimal and will warm again in minutes bur the moisture it removes would take Kwh's of energy with a dehumidifier to remove, cheers.
This is a good point, people should simply open their windows for a few minutes every day, no matter how cold it is - it didn't actually cause a big difference to the property temperature. Even if it's raining outside, the incoming air's humidity will be a lot lower than what you have inside due to the temperature difference - I think there's lack of unnderstanding about relative vs. specific/absolute humidity amongst the public which causes this issue.
@@aliasgharkhoyee9501 This normally takes me less than 2 weeks to get the house from Summer/Autumn humidity of 65%+ to less than 50% Winter, it's free and I do it while my wife is shut in the shower, cheers.
@@andyphillips7435 2 weeks but only 3 or 4 minutes each day and then only the cold and breezy ones, probably less than 30 minutes of windows open in that 2 weeks, cheers.
I picked this video to learn about new heating systems in 2024 and I haven't heard anything yet about heating systems and I'm already two thirds of the way through the video so I would say don't waste your time
The takeaway from this is there is no definite answer he outlined all of the issues surrounding heating I appreciate Roger can waffle but you need to ask yourself all of the questions he addresses .Im not defending him but he usually hits the nail on the head. I do not pretend to know the answer to the best heating system for a specific property ,you need to have several so called experts come and survey your property and give you a report on your situation .Then add two divide it by three subtract ten for salesman’s bullshit and you will have your answer
I'm using far infrared panels, & bars wall/ ceiling, all fully controlled via an app or Alexa! Can turn on & set the thermostat temp, can turn on a single room or multiple rooms... Loving it, best thing I ever installed... Connect to WiFi (also has handheld remotes, or panel controls) Drill the wall etc... lift on & plug in! Brilliant, no need for the GSH!
@awpetersen5909 Because I can heat a room, for a certain amount of time, or let the thermostat, do its thing they are decent on the electric, I have 1.2kw bar heaters, that I can set to 600w, sometimes I have on full power, for say 20 to 30 minutes, then set to low power. The other flat panels, are a mix, from 350w up to 700w. But like I say, I can set them to come on & off or stay on with the thermostat cut in & out... But I normally just say= Alexa turn on Master Bedroom for 1 hour etc... before I go to bed, or go to the app & turn on the living room for when I'm returning home etc.. etc... So, the heaters aren't constantly on say 3 to 6 hours a day or whatever & at a weekend, as a family we tend to be in the living room, so we heat it as required, then if it's cold b4 bed, I'll get the kids rooms warmed up & the Master Bedroom, before they/ we go up... Also, the App or Alexa will tell me the current temperature of said rooms 👍👍 to see if they need heating. Normally without heating, the bedrooms are around 15 to 16°c so to bring up to 18 or 20 etc... it's not a big task. Also the items (Wall, Floors Furniture etc) give off their heat, when bars/panels (All non light kind) are off. You can heat, where you want to heat 👍👍 Might get solor in the future, with batteries, then the heating will be most likely be free!
In my small room I installed a small wood burner, at the time I didn't think it would be anywhere near enough but it's so damn good. Really quick to bring the room from 8C to 25C, couple of hours and I can keep it at that temp no problem. I did try a little electric heater before that and it simply didn't work well enough and was really expensive. It couldn't get the room past 15C to be honest so I've pretty much turned off electric heaters now. I have pretty good insulation in my room as well though, few areas to improve though. It's very well ventilated, walls are entirely open other then rockwool so air can pass in and out with less restriction. Keeps the heat in well enough though. I think if I was going to build again there are some things to improve though but I think that will always be the case.
We dry clothes around the houses on the radiators. When the wood burner is on, it seems to take the damp air and sends it up the chimney. Our 1960's is reasonably well insulated but theres enough drafts for outside air to be pulled in. Simple but effective. Getting heatlogs in the summer in bulk bags saves a ton of cash over oil costs
Dropped down to 6C a few times but once the wood burner is going it climbs pretty fast. Most I had it up to was 27C and then I let it go out.@@Liverpool1ne
@@gazrgazr2394 It's a small burner so it's a bit difficult to control the temperature. Once I have it going nice I just turn it down but it draws in enough air for it to keep burning pretty well regardless so the temp just climbs. Tricky to put big bits on because the door is narrow but long so I try and cut narrow long peices but those still burn pretty quick about every 45-60 minutes or so. Regardless it's still a million times better then any electric radiator.
I have MVHR Roger, and I've fitted humidity and temperature sensors to the extract and tempered fresh air supply. It does work and the efficiency is 80%+. 21c out and 18-19c back in to the house in the coldest months. Of course one can not expect 100% efficiency, however I'd rather be bringing 18c air back in than 2c! It's also solved our damp and mould issues. It also costs pennies to run, averaging about 18w power consumption.
I have watched many of your videos and like the common sense approach to all subjects. This topic addresses the lack of common sense which most households have to keeping warm. The lifestyle is the crucial factor as most people will have their heating on under the thermostat all the time. I am a plumber so have installed many systems. I run my system manually so if its cold and I am at home all day I put it on at 52degrees. If I'm out all day and home at 4.00 I put it on at 70 for 2 hours. Never on in the mornings as I can remember scraping the ice off the INSIDE of my bedroom windows! Combi hot water so monthly gas and electric £97 for a 3 bed detached house.
Had to educate my son and his friend who just moved into a flat and were drying washing with all the windows shut tight. Condensation pouring down windows.
I use an EcoAir desiccant dehumidifier, which works a treat. It also adds a little heat to the room, and sometimes that's all it needs to maintain a nice temperature. Another good thing about it is that it's made in the UK.
We sometimes run our portable dehumidifier in the winter in our sunroom. Good bathroom ventilation during showers/bath helps. If you ever see condensation on your bathroom mirror you know your ventilation fan is not working correctly.
For an old house, wood burner or open fire everytime. That’s what they were ‘designed’ for - they draw moist air through the chimney, dry out damp, and don’t contribute to condensation in the way that a gas fire or combi boiler would. Downside? You need to make up the fire everytime - but once it’s going, you’ll be toasty. For a modern, well insulated and airtight home - ASHP - but you need to recognise the fact that it’ll need to run 24/7 at tickover, and realise that you won’t be able to boost the temperature without incurring higher bills.
And heat pumps are least cost-efficient when it gets properly cold (around freezing point) i.e. when you need them the most, and tend to break down or stop working more often (to defrost) during the depths of winter.
@@aliasgharkhoyee9501 That's not strictly accurate, most 2023 heat pumps properly designed & installed will provide sufficient heat to @ -15C outside. With a short defrost cycle (part of normal process), John Cantor has some very good presentations & tools to use for heat pump calculations, and Glyn Hudson has done an interesting install recently (search youtube). Heat pumps are less complex than a combi gas boiler, so less likely to have problems if installed and set up correctly.
@@_Dougaldog newer heat pumps are definitely better (in terms of working in colder temperatures), but it's also widely accepted that their cost effectiveness is much lower in such weather - heat pump manufacturers and advocates all agree about this, it's not debated.
@@aliasgharkhoyee9501 Agreed, and conversely their cost effectiveness is higher in not so cold periods, the SCOP ( average over year) is the figure that most would use as a cost comparison reference, and is typically @ 3.7
A couple of cats with no cat flap ensures that you have to open doors often. They also take their time in deciding to actually go in or out leaving you holding the door open for longer.
Well done Roger. People don't realise how important air changes are. No matter how you try, can't change the laws of nature. Comfort for us, not the mould.
I have a whole bungalow with heat recovery (MVHR). Dampness has gone, very little mould now, not that it was a real problem. two bathrooms with a shower toilet and sink one being a wet room for a wheelchair user. They do dry out pretty quick when the HVAC goes on boost. Despite all the claims of being energy efficient my electric bill has more than doubled in winter due to (Like what was said in the video ) the real-life situation of lost heat a hell of a lot of it. Also to note I thought it may have been the unit itself I replaced it with a different model with no difference then I changed the make, which only increased my losses. The downside is you cannot turn them off without doing a before and after thorough cleaning of the pipes and parts due to mould spores taking over the unit. Filters are cleaned monthly.
Most of the year our heating system is Totally Free Solar™, keeping us at a comfy 27 to 33 degrees in the shade. On exceptional days in the mountains our heating system is firewood, if it ever gets below 24 degrees Celsius and we feel like putting on a jumper in the Philippines 😜
On the ventilation/condensation issue; PIV works well for me. Before fitting a Nuaire unit about 10 years ago, I had very bad condensation on all windows, even with a comfortable level of heating. The only way to get the condensation under control was to have fanlight windows open all evening and morning before work, and "locked open" for the rest of the time. This was without drying laundry inside, and always using extractor fans. Within a week of fitting the PIV unit - all condensation issues completely disappeared. Even during a long shower, the most that ever appears is a light misting (rather than large beads of water) on a part of the glass in the bathroom (nowhere else), and only on the coldest days. Drafts aren't an issue for me - but I situated my unit above where the main trunk of heating pipes run through the attic, so hopefully gain just a little a bit more pre-heating than just ambient loft air. The flow rates seem to be low enough that not much heat is actually moved anyway - it certainly doesn't feel cold in the hallway where the ceiling diffuser is located. Better yet - heating bills actually reduced, presumably because it is easier to heat drier air, and also because the heating didn't need running more in futile attempts to dry things out. You have to exchange the air anyway, not just for humidity, but also for CO2 levels, so you might as well do it in a controlled way. I have never been able to justify the cost of MVHR in a retrofit, over just fitting PIV. The payback period, even if the MVHR reaches the questionable efficiency figures, means you'll be replacing the unit due to fan failure before it has saved you anything in heating costs.
I’ve always lived in Pennsylvania USA. Starting as a child we would burn wood in our coal furnace in the fall and then switch to coal during the winter. After being married we did the same thing because the house we rented had a coal furnace. Because it was small we were able to convert oil heating unit. we did rent a few different places over the that included the heat. Moving to Western Pennsylvania because of a transfer over employment, then we used natural gas which was excellent and we did own one home that had electric heat. I would recommend that anyone insulate insulate insulate particularly in the attic. I had to do it today building a new home, I would get an electric hot water boiler with baseboard heat and zoned heat. When you think about it the heat is 100% efficient, nothing going up a chimney. There’s no tank to fill and no pipes coming into your house with gas. Whatever heat you put in that house unless you lose it through the windows walls or roof, it heats your home.. With the proper insulation, it’s the most efficient that I can think of nowadays.
MVHR can be a minefield of costs. We had a quote for £5k for just the materials. I ended up doing it DIY for around £1300. Though we live in a bungalow and we're doing renovations at the same time. Getting on OK with it. We had PIV before and it worked well for mould but would blow in cold air in the winter and hot air in the summer.
Dry washing on radiator all the time , no extractor fans at . Just open bathroom window when showering. Use approximately 12000kwh of gas a year in 2 bed bungalow At approximately 21c 7.30 am till 11.00pm October through April. NO DAMP issues at all. All standard installation , nothing special.
Don’t leave doors open to rooms much colder than main living area as warm moist air will rush in and condense on the cold spots, do this to often and damp will spread in the walls.
Appreciate this! Im DIY renovating my 1930s house atm and as ive never had it heated, i have no idea if itll have mold or damp issues. So do i invest in MVHR now or just plop a PIop a PIV if i get issues later.
Single glazed windows acting as ''passive dehumidifiers' My house is proof of that, built in the 70s, still retains its single glazed windows. There are days when they stream with condensation but I have never had any mould problems, ever. My daughter, living in a similar house but with double glazing has a constant war with mould, on the walls, ceilings, curtains everywhere. As you rightly said, it's a problem with no easy solution.
I installed a Mitsubishi Lossnay heat recovery ventilation system a couple of years ago. I live at the top the South Island in NZ. It works brilliantly, but I do agree with you, Roger, claimed efficiency may be overstated.
This was a very useful review of the problems and solutions but I can’t understand why you didn’t mention the great usefulness of portable dehumidifiers - we have 2 in our house one of which is on all night on the nighttime electricity tariff which creates a laundry drying out of the spare bedroom whenever we need it - which is very often at this time of year⁉️
Glad you replied … thanks👍 If you get the chance sometime to talk about Portable Dehumidifiers (electric air conditioner ones) I think many people would be interesting as to why they are a maximally efficient and cost effective way to combat condensation and keep the house at the optimum healthy humidity.
2 minutes of shock venting in the morning is all I need. All windows just before everyone wakes up is enough to drop 10% relative humidity in a 3 bed semi. I quite like seeing the windows steam up on the outside when the windows open.
Gas heating for me, I have a high efficiency condensing boiler running at a temperature which keeps it in condensing mode, the power to the boiler is from a supply which can be connected to a generator when needed, this is important because the power network is not robust enough to support EV vehicles and electric boilers, had lots of power cuts but never a gas cut.
@@paul756uk2 Exactly, we might think we have a choice, but in reality we don’t, if it’s not going in our overlords way, watch the price of gas become unaffordable.
What country do you live in? Power cuts are thankfully very rare in the UK unless you're really rural, and thats nothing to do with EVs, rather its the overhead infrastructure.
That’s true, the main issue seems to be underground joints failing, to be honest it’s amazing that the legacy infrastructure cabling is coping with the ever increasing demands without the whole lot burning up lol For context, I’ve used my home generator to power house essentials 3 times, the maximum period was 4hrs due to overhead line issues.
Proper air flow , air balance , heat exchangers are key with modern air tight and well insulated houses, R50 in the attic and R22 rock wool in the walls, triple glazed windows, make the house even reasonable to -40c in canada, you need heat / air exchangers
our house is over 300 years old no problem with mold however much washing is dried due to the drafts which also means log burners are only worthwhile heat source which do run central heating but those rads however hot they get just remove chill and dont make a room comfortable
Air with lower humidity is easier and cheaper to heat than moisture laden air so good ventilation pays for itself despite some heat loss. Vent when you are out and shut windows when you are home. Only needs a bit of effort.
Fantastic, as always you tell the truth, easy to understand. As we know the UK has the worst built homes in Europe which is a big shame, we deserve better and NO government cares. 🤩👍
We live in the sticks, and I have a wood stove that heats rads and HW. Just refurbishing the house and am going with an lpg bulk tank and system boiler. Even with government grants in Ireland, I would need to invest 30k plus to stand a chance with a heat pump. Instead I have a well insulated house that needs minimal heat, and costs very little to run.
Not many heatpumps need 3 phase. All the newer models are inverter driven so don't have big current draws on start up. A 12kw HP will draw less than an electric shower. A small 5kw unit for a flat or terraced house draws about the same as a kettle.
@@HA05GER As a thought 14kW might be oversized and not running at any decent efficiency if its continually cycling on/off. My small 2 bed semi bungalow has been recently sized @ 6kW HP for heating and hot water (designed for 45C flow to radiators @ external temp' of -3.5C, 55C to HWC). Ideally system should use weather compensation and just tick away in background. If system is oversized then might be very costly to run.
I cut of a section from my liquid cooling garment, made belts from tape and wrapped them round the canister. Then made an arch from my EVA card over the top of the canister. Stopped the bypass hole with a towel. Taped another bag on the other side of the canister. Then added a suit hose to one side of the canister. Then attached the other end of the hose to the ventilation system of the lunar payload system. Which has a water recovery system and a circulating fan. Now I can dry my clothes without opening any windows.
One thing to take into consideration when opening the windows to air the rooms out is what the outside humidity level is compared to the inside humidity level. My living room is at 71% when I type this unfortunately the outside humidity is 91%, so not a lot of point in me opening the windows today.
That 91% is relative humidity though. The air is much colder than the air in your living room. Once that air comes in and is heated, it will be able to hold more moisture. It will likely be less than 71% humidity.
many thanks for the info , I will look into it and try it and see what happens. I take it that its more dew point that has the effect of dampness. Thanks again@@aluminumfalcun
Buy a dehumidifier. I got a probreeze 20L and it ran for a week solid, pulling out like 20 liters of water. (Everything got damp) it now only turns on when we are drying laundry. Maybe 5 liters in the last 10 days. So that would be 6 hours active run time in the winter. The high humidity happened in the fall. 10C with 100% relative humidity is hell. It is now freezing so the co2 extraction fans probly keep enough fresh air entering.
Run a humidifier plus you get a bit of heat from running them. Once it's run for a while it'll just kick on every so often. Ours has probably kicked in for half hour today and we dry quite a bit in the house with 4 kids.
One of my tenants reported mould. After checking the photos from the recent inspecting and comparing to the check in photos, she had poly filled the air brick!
Throughout my place i have small battery powered (thermometers) with humidity readers. i’m used to catching a glance and choosing to put a sweater on or even an old-fashion sleep cap or socks. So year around, i alternate between room fans, open window in bathroom after I squeegee the shower walls,t dehumidifier only for rainy seasons, an air conditioner that sits 75 % outside and which cycles sometimes to a short dry mode for itself. I prefer a chill over dry skin. Heat is off if it’s 40ish or at least no freeze is expected. Patched up openings around pipes. Cover unused outlets with plastic child safety caps. Hang curtains at windows. All of the above 🎉🎉 is okay with me to avoid dehydration, reduce chance of moisture damage is worth my health and saves money. Also for me it’s better to be cooler in winter so I don’t require heavier coats etc.
The only thing I'd raise is that with the current gas / oil prices, oil is currently cheaper than gas by a fair bit so if anything, a heat pump would be more viable for a property with a gas boiler. The flexible Octopus tariff is currently 6.93p/kWh for gas with a 27.47p/day standing charge. Last time we purchased oil (May), we paid 56p/litre which works out to be £0.0541/kWh. (Both numbers are before you count the efficiency of the boiler, which gas would typically win on due to them being modulating boilers). On PIV heaters, I do wonder why they don't add a radiator coil so that you can use your existing heating rather than having a resistive electric heater. That would be much cheaper to run.
@@cingramuk Very good shout, there are some 200mm units on Ebay (I believe that's the right size for the Nuaire PIV systems) which would be suitable. Worth noting that they tend to be designed for horizontal duct use (Due to the pipework inside, you wouldn't be able to bleed them if you mounted them vertically) so some ductwork would be required but it's a good way to add another radiator to your house without it taking up space. I calculated about 1.7kW of heat with a 60C flow temperature for the one I found.
@@yngndrw. I've seen them used mostly in the States from YT vids I've seen. I think they are really meant to just tamper the air coming in, to get it to the room temp, rather than heat the room but dont see a reason why you couldn't give it the full flow from the system and let it do a bit of heating. I guess the cost may outweigh the benefits. I looked at adding a similar electric heater to mine and switch it on during the cheap period on my EV tariff. Could get a 3kW heater, but with the other electric heaters I have in the house (inc 2x 3kW Willis heaters inline on my UFH), plus EV charger, plus DWH immersion, it was getting a bit close to the supply limit and I'm not sure it would make a huge difference for the cost. I need to get my biomass swapped for a ASHP and be done with fanny on with other temp solutions!
Many, many years ago the BBC ran a programme called house of the future. A barn was converted to a home. Of all the new ideas done at that time. The heat recovery was the most efficient. It has always been something that I remember from that show.. Wish they would do a update
We installed new double glazing and got the situation with black mold around the windows. Installed one heat exchanger wall ventilator that have a ceramic block in that blow out for 2 minutes and pull air in for another 2 minutes so the heat is transfered back into the air but the moisture is left outside. Uses 3watt and I bouth the expencive one that should have a 95% recovery.. We use it at the lowest setting and the room it is in has no radiator - only appliances and it is not colder than before - only in direct wind it let cold win through and we have to push the hatch to close it.
I have a MVHR which I pull stats off : Outside air temp - 10c Outside Exhaust - 10.4c Supply to House temp - 16.9c House temp - 18.2c Seems pretty efficient. I'm sure someone can work out the efficiency based on these numbers
Mine is very similar. Worth emphasising that having it means you can go absolutely ham on airtightness, so even if it's only 70pc efficient, it's allowed you to close up loads of holes in the house and conserve heat.
You have mentioned extraction but nothing on dehumidifiers. Yes this uses electricity but we put small 20W ones on our window sill and find it reduces the moisture significantly on the window. When drying washing we use a larger one with humidistat to keep RH at about 50%. We only need to run that for an hour or two.
You can have a heat pump, you can have an MHVR system; on my travels I've become really interested in the more hybrid of the two: EAHP. One of the reasons is I'm in a new build which is pretty efficient, but also fairly relatively air tight. An air to water heat pump might be too big most of the time, but an MHVR is doing most of the work, but then you don't get hot water. An EAHP in theory can solve all these things in one package, with the addition of vents. The more I look into them the more annoyed I get that they're not standard on new build houses tbh. I'm still 18-24 months out from really making a firm decision, but they are really interesting.
I have a vent Axia heat recovery extractor - the way they can claim 80% efficiency is that the ratio of incoming air is a lot less than the outgoing air so it's a negative pressure system which for me is fine. They can't achieve better than that for equal air out = equal air in as you rightly say - the tube is only 12" long and with air moving out at a fair rate of knots the system cannot achieve more heat recovery, This is far better than positive input ventilation that just blows cold air into the house and to add insult has a 150 watt heater to warm the stale smelling loft fumes!
That’s interesting - I bought a PIV - although it’s not yet fitted, in the hope that it would help with moisture. Is yours an old or modern house? (Mine was built in 1916).
agreed heat recovery is a lot better, installers love PIV as its super easy to install, can bash out a load of jobs each day and they all involved exactly the same process.
Sorry but I feel the need to correct you on the electrical supply issue, in rural locations which as you stated "an overhead supply" you might struggle to get 3 phase (3Ph) . Quite the contrary, most rural locations are supplied via a TT 3Ph overhead supply e.g Farms. It is much easier to access a 3Ph supply in a rural are than in a city or town as the cost of running a line overhead is much cheaper than the ground ground works required to install in a built environment. Also there are many new build applications looking into supplying newer properties with a 3Ph and not single Ph supply. The main issue of electricity supply is the old outdated built environment looped supplies that also effect the installation of solar PV and EV charge systems.
I'm rural, we have no 3ph, they wanted tens of thousands to get it here from the nearest substation which was miles away. We live in a farmhouse with other farms around us.
It all depends on the medium voltage network in your area. If you have a three phase 11kV supply to your transformer, upgrades are much more reasonable - But some rural properties have only two 11kV phases going to the transformer and it costs a lot to upgrade those. (I believe the DNO charges for any changes to the voltage you're using and the voltage level above, then pays for anything above that.) The advantage in rural areas is that it's overhead, so cable changes (Especially on the low voltage side) are much cheaper as they an just zip along in a cherry picker and upgrade them. It's also often much easier to get the permits to close rural roads. As an example, we have three phase 11kV to our transformer, but a single phase transformer and about 80m of low voltage overhead cabling to our property. (The supply only feeds us and next door) We asked for a quote to upgrade this to a three phase 40kVA supply and the quote they gave was £8,000 + VAT. This was for a proportion of the cost of the transformer (I think they wanted to put in a 100kVA transformer and would charge us 4/10 of that price), the cost of upgrading the low voltage cabling and of course any permits etc required. In an urban environment, chances are there's already a low voltage three phase supply running past your house so it's typically just the cost of digging up the road and installing a new low voltage cable to your house. Some rural properties also have a three phase supply outside of course, but it's less likely as the transformers typically supply fewer properties unless you're in a little village.
@@yngndrw.Even with the cost of the extra transformer and cabling you're in a much better situation than. Most UK urban housing for a 100A 3Ph supply due to there being less loading in the system locally and the less balancing being needed. As you mention the cost is higher due to the need for the new transformer install and extra cabling required but this is far easier (although not cheaper) than converting a urban domestic property to 3Ph
@@lksf9820out of curiosity what location are you ininthe UK? Most rural areas around the Northwest I have worked on all have a 3Ph supply very close by and it is mainly a transformer cost issue that is the limit?
I was very interested to hear your comment on condensation on single glazed windows. I have always regarded mine as a dehumidifier when dried with my dyson window vac. I have no damp or mould problems. Thanks for your great videos.
We incorporated a self contained air recycling system in a large detached house over 40 years ago with control over how much fresh air was introduced into the fan unit located in the attic with a vent to the outside. We also had pot and beam floors on both levels with underfloor heating. The house runs on pennies .as the boiler only operates at low temperatures.I can’t. Believe that builders are still building new £500,000 houses with radiator systems and no air recycling. No radiators is amazing and no air ventilation with. Loss of heat Should all be in building regs by now.on all new build. With improved insulation and tripleglazing to large. Windows.
Getting my back boiler ripped out and a combi fitted in new year.. was gonna put a wet stove in, but decided to go for the combi/log burner option… ASHP’s? No thanks
Great post, I've got gas boiler combi, works fine, I'm wondering how I can retrieve the heat from the outlet to the air, it seems the by process of our heat is being exhausted outside.
Make sure it’s a condensing boiler as this already cools the the escaping vapour. If it is then your next step is flue gas heat recovery. Get your boiler range rated and temps set where they need to be and correctly sized rads. Bigger the better, (ideally underfloor)
I've just gone from Electric and Gas to just Electric in the house. Sounds strange to alot of people but it's a small house and the boiler takes up quite a bit of space so that's gone. I've got electric radiators (Not heaters) that work well and have been quite efficient. It's costing roughly £50 more a month than when I had Gas and Electric but the goal is to get solar and batteries going forward and I want to get to a point where over a year it's then less than the Electric and Gas which I think we can do. I can only see energy prices continuing to rise going forward so wanted to take some control early by taking the hit now rather than later. I use ecostrad ceramic iq radiators and they do work well around the house, plus individually controlled and alexa controlled allows for alot of leniancy. When I say it's £50 more a month that's with the heating on all day and night, we also have an electric shower now to due to boiler removal. I think it's the right decision in the extreme long run but we'll see. I feel like this only works for fairly small houses and wouldn't work for larger houses though.
I made a choice not to fit a gas boiler when I renovated my house. We have electric panel heaters on timers, an immersion heater, and a couple of gas fires. I wanted 2 wood burners - but my wife vetoed me! It’s an old single skin brick house, with PVCU windows, and condensation is a bit of a problem - the bills over the last couple of years have been frightening, but I tend to keep a large credit on my electricity bill. I might vetoe my wife, and get 2 wood burners fitted - it would transform the house into something really warm during the winter.
@@simonhodgetts6530 They only work if you can get wood for free and feeding two will see you up and down like a yoyo all evening. They were a good idea 20yrs ago, but since the World and his wife jumped on the bandwagon wood is now expensive. When our free wood has run out I won't be using it any longer, we get through 7 m3 of wood per year in a small/medium one.
It's generally not a good ideal to to ditch a wet system for resistive heaters and batteries, you're going to need 3x the batteries to run resistive heaters than you would have needed to run a heat pump. Those batteries may have an 8 year limited warranty, but you will need to plan to replace them after 10. You are totally vulnerable to the price of off-peak electricity closing in on on-peak electricity.
@@edc1569 It's the opposite for me unless I'm misunderstanding energy (I'm no expert but I've been trying as I've developed the house to learn as I go and have a good chat with my electrician constantly who uses a heat pump, solar and all sorts). But total radiator power is 7,600 watts. It's why my energy bill arguably isn't hugely different, although as I say it's a bit more at the moment. But again the idea is Solar on the Roof and Cabin and go from there. We'll see if it works, I believe it will in the long run 5-10 years.
Grateful for anyone who can give me an idea of wet underfloor heating running costs. I’m looking at buying a home which is a converted building (2015), 2 bed semi or around 1400 square feet total. WUFH downstairs and radiators upstairs. EPC is a B. I noticed it was very warm when I viewed but the vendor had the room thermostats set at 25 degrees. To save money, my current gas fired radiator set up is rarely set at more than 15 degrees and on for an hour first thing, lunch time and an hour in the evening. It goes up to 18 degrees when really cold outside. I’ve read mixed things about running costs for Ufh systems. Grateful for any personal experience or advice.
You mention the issue of humidity which is really important. Might a dehumidifier unit be the best solution, particularly for those drying clothes indoors? (I've asked for one for Xmas!) Thanks for explaining the PIR as well - I've heard of these but didn't fully understand them.
I have a fairly large dehumidifier which came with my house (ex rental which had leaking pipes in the kitchen, landlord just gave them a dehumidifier lol). If I run it for a few hours in the room with my laundry it collects several litres of water, kind of blows my mind just how much water it's able to gather.
With the heat recovery ventilation units, if they are moving the same amount of air in as out, then the best they can possibly thermally do is recover half the heat. At this point the incoming and outgoing air will be at the same temp, i.e. halfway between the inside and outside temps. I assume the '80% efficient' units are getting 80% of the way to this theoretical limit, i.e. recovering 40% of the heat that would otherwise be lost. Not terrible but misleading. I guess if warm moisture from inside condenses in the HX some additional heat will also be recovered, and need a drain for the condensate.
Whenever im in i always have my windows open a bit upstairs. If im usong my pc which is near the window ill open it a bit more as the pc heats up the room a bit. Any electrical device like that is creating heat and if you are using it anyway for something else its free heat. I also leave the oven open after cooking too to use that heat, but only if its something that smells good. Not fish of course 😂
For decades we hear about heat loss and such like, yet one of the main heat losses occur at external doors. I cannot understand why we do not provide an air lock at these locations to keep the volume of heat loss to a minimum where recovery time would keep bills lower . Better design of utility rooms for washing /drying and showering to keep moist air and heat in one place & extract moist air at that location .
Good point about our generation! My teens consider shorts and t-shirt to be all-year round homewear. To be absolutely honest, I feel that much of the Climate "emergency" stuff is overhyped - it's the big causenof the generation before the one that's obsessing about gender (mine was CND...). But - most of the stresses of my generation arose from being too closely coupled with the oil producers - so taking away power (literally) from OPEC and Putin through windmills might just make political- if not economic sense. But our house is 400+ years old - the moisture goes up the chimney! Excellent vid, as ever. Thank you.
I've got a PIV, i can programme it to turn off when the loft gets over a certain temp in summer but no option for a lower cut off in winter. Considering adding a thermostat set around 8-10dC to stop losing too much heat in winter. Is this a good idea? The worst RH in my house happens around spring and autumn anyway.
It's amazing to me that houses in UK have moisture problem during winter. We have the reverse - the air is too dry and we need to run humidifiers. Can anyone explain what's going on there? Is it because you keep +13 degrees inside?
@@lksf9820 Air movement can help prevent the buildup of humidity by promoting the evaporation of moisture. Mould tends to thrive in environments with high humidity levels. The ideal relative humidity for mould growth is generally considered to be above 60%. When the air is humid, it provides the moisture necessary for mould spores to germinate and grow into colonies.
I've got old windows condensing all the time, I don't have a lot of sources of moisture exhaust fan on the range hood that vents outside, bathroom fan that vents outside we use these all the time. I have humidity sensors never see it above 50% humidity we still see the black mold on the walls. 1. I wouldn't recommend letting your home get too cold while your not home that will allow your inside surfaces to get cold and condensation will appear on them. 2. I'm beginning to think the air coming in through the old moldy rotten windows is a source of mold spores in the home causing the mold, so I'd like to get some air tight windows and replace any rotten wood. 3. I do think exhaust fans or EVR's are important I think you should think about the quality and source of your air an ensure its not collecting mold spores as its being piped in.
I have had tenants dry clothing on radiators, and no ventilation. Tenants wouldn't open windows. Not to mention cooking, bodies, tumble drier, and a washing machine. Installed heat air extractor system. Still black mould. Tenants admitted they wouldn't turn on the extactors. They threatened to take me to court. I reminded them it's an Edwardian property. The surveyor and all damp specialists' recommendations fully implemented a damp course. Anti mould paint and extractor fan system installed. The problem is lifestyle. Thankfully I am no longer a landlord.
I have a 7 KW multi fuel stove & a combo boiler for hot water. I find the car & truck tyres that I am paid to remove give off a excellent heat when cut into 8 X 8 chunks
i despise people that try to solely blame all landlords for mould. i new of a couple that would complain left right and centre about "rising damp" in a second floor flat, getting the council involved and every thing. well The landlord just basically laughed at them saying, rising damp. in a second floor flat, when the first floor is completely dry. not a chance in hell. He said they needed to vent the flat. they refused, so in the end he installed all vented windows, all of the sudden, all the damp went. but when winter came about, the couple sealed all the vents, taping over them all. and just like before. the damp was back... This silly idea that landlords are always to blame is nonsense. most damp cases i have seen, really are self induced. very few times has it ever been the fault of the building or landlord.
Air-to-air with humidity control sounds like it would solve some of the problems. Basically AC with a heat pump? Of course you need a domestic hot water supply method too but that's maybe less of an issue than dealing with damp.
AC is a heat pump, they just reverse the cycle to heat instead of cool. Hence reverse cycle or bi-valent. Worse COP than air to water though, so would need to do the maths, personally I find the noise of the fan on the inside unit irritating. Great for commercial settings though.
@@mktrollop1093I'm not sure the CoP is worse, in theory it should be better. The problem is the noise, drafts, nightmare retrofits, condensate removal challenges, servicing challenges, need to chuck the whole system away every 10 years when something breaks, the appearance of those cassettes in your home.
Dry air needs less energy to warm up than moist air, so ventilating once or twice a day for a few minutes might actually lower your overall heating requirement...
To add to your comments about electricity supply, both for heat pumps and car charging. The vast majority of older houses will still have a 60-80A supply, where as in newer houses 100A is standard. It could be as simple as a bigger incoming fuse, that can only be done by the network operator for your area, not the company you pay for your energy. But you may also require a new consumer unit, and a complete re wire, thousands of pounds of additional costs. The problems could get worse if the additional power is not available, and a new sub station is required, we had a quote of £80,000 for a new sub station, which would not belong to us, that was for an overhead supply, likley in a built up area with underground cabling, far higher. Something that does not seem to be mentioned. By the way £80,000 is not that expensive, the 11KV supply was close by, there was the land available to install the substation. If there is no where to install the substation, in any built up area, more than likely, it may just not be possible to have an increase in power, again something that does not seem to be mentioned.
Gas heating makes sense. Solar panels are cheap so maybe one could heat the hot water and run the washing machine on solar panels. Even though Lithium Iron Batteries are expensive, they are coming down in price and could save on mains supplied electricity. I am moving to Thailand and I am living off grid, water bore with 8 solar panels and batteries for all electric. I just buy a bottle of LPG for 420baht => £9.80 every other month for cooking. No council tax so I am living well on 30,000 baht => £700 per month.
1950s no insulation, badly fitting windows, one open fire, larder and bathroom windows open all year, laundry aired at night around the fireplace. No back mould. Elderly here, plenty of ventilation, just one small woodburner for 12 hours p.day, electric rad in bedroom on low. I hated working in an office which lacked fresh air.
Bixby sir, could you do a comparison of top 5 Air Source Heat pumps available in UK now - cost to buy, install, run, reliability, warranty, hot water ability etc. Thx
Floor insulation. Can the crawl space be sealed/insulated and then hot air used to heat the floor and the rest of the house? Can exhausted used hot air recycled through air to air heat exchanger to make whole system more efficient?
I use kitchen hood to extract moisture. it has flow 500 m^3 per hour and by my calculation 15 min is enough to replace whole air in house. Also i crack open window on other side of the house opposite side of kitchen, all other windows and door must be close. My primary heating sistem is wood stove with cold air intake, which also create positive pressure inside of the house.
I live in a Residential Park Home .... we heat and cook on LPG from 47kg cylinders and our incoming electric supply is 30amps provided by the Park Owner Company on a contract with a total of 56 homes. I work mostly from home and will soon retire and be there more. There is no way any alternative is affordable, especially a heat pump.
Any chance you can come up to Todmorden to advise on heating/venting a gas-heated 400-year old Yorkshire stone house with 18-inch thick walls? 😉 Thank you, Roger, for all your content and advice. I've discovered you fairly recently - it really is a wonderful channel and I'm learning a lot 👍
Am nearby, in a similar build converted barn. For Stone walls I used Insulating plaster, 20mm with breathable paint, avoided modern materials, sealed all “edges” around windows, etc. as rubble filled walls can leak air through. Thorough draught-proofing, floors, service inlets (back of kitchen units can be airy!), the usual culprits. Trick is to keep those walls at least 14/15 degrees. If you Let them get colder, or damp, and it will feel cold for hours and take longer to warm up. Consider the walls your wrap around storage radiator. Invest in a spot thermometer gun, and a few simple thermometers with humidity gauges to help learn how it all works. Calderdale were looking at getting some thermal cameras for loan. There have been some retrofit events locally at Tod and HB these are interesting, educational and experts attend. Having gas is a bonus tbf.
So much easier maintaining a lower temperature something like 12-15c, cooler air less moisture. Means heat doesn't plough out the trickle vents so fast, can't really do them being closed. Extractor fan come on as it needs too. Thermal base layers and neck warmers, can always dress more layers if you match the sizes up on each other neatly, keep some gloves pre warmed in pockets. Thermos flask and vacuum thermal cup for hot drinks helps feel a whole warmer quickly if you've made a decent thermal envelop around you, plugged the gap properly keep the draft from around your waste, sleeve and neck ect. Always more you can do to feel warmer before needing to turn heating up. You only need to maintain something like 12c really and that's a much smaller difference to the outside than like 18-20c so the heat behaves slower just for that reason, more time to take up as radiant heat, easier to lower flow temp ect.
Can see your logic, however that would be too cold for many and can bring with it health issues such as circulatory problems. General advice is to keep homes at or above 18c for comfort and wellbeing. Each to their own, not judging but there are downsides 👍🏻
@@Liverpool1ne Yeah you may need to consider with certain health issues and older age ect, however there's always such steps to reduce what temperatures required than otherwise would be. A lot of people just dress in a t shirt all year, then it's just a massive shock every time they go outside and just put a big coat on which will mostly just prevent heat loss out your back mainly meaning you just loose heat elsewhere faster. Poor air quality from reduced ventilation causes health issues also, I'm not sure circulatory issues would apply so easily if you are actually layered up well with everything connected up properly, maintaining a warm envelope around you with all the gaps filled around your waste, sleeves and neck ect, top of head. If you've got physical issues doing the extra dressing and undressing it can be an issue maybe. I think perhaps there is perhaps more of a knack to layering up properly than perhaps most people think... You need to have the right set of layers to work together in the first place and a few sets obviously. Also there's a big difference between maintaining 12c radiant temperature and just raising the convective temperature to 12c now and again, sure that's not going to be comfortable on its own. The building itself, walls and furniture ect need to kept stable or its going to feel even colder and can perhaps start to cause structural issues even.
With fur lined Parka, ear muffs, ski gloves and furry boots it's like resurrection of the Cyber men... I took them off when back room rose from 2.7C last week (-6C outside) but living room was toasty 23C.
@@_Dougaldog Well all that's going to start getting on the way of doing anything indoors isn't it. I just find you get a set of those sporty elastic bass layers on then with some normal thermal long jons over them with a hat and neck warmer well, that actually makes a proper connected up warm envelop under a normal hoodie shirt and trousers id be wearing anyway.
@@ericritchie6783 Should I become a MAMIL I wonder, works for cyclists (Middle Aged Man In Lycra) ? Slither along the solum like greased racing snake... 😉
I have a small dehumidifier in each room, but they began to freeze up as the outside got to about 0 degrees. I dont have the heat on at all, and my house is between 5 and 10 degrees. Instead I wear warm clothing and turn the fan heater on when I get in from work at 2200. I have a question do you think im damaging the house long term or do you think I should do an extra days work to pay to have a minimum temperature eg 10 - 12 deg. Im only one person so there is only limited condensation, and im working 4 days getting in at 2230. Second question - if im not in does it matter if the house is cold as long as the pipes are above freezing?
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If you have excessive moisture in your home in the winter just run a dehumidifier. Solves the problem. I have issues with condensation and mold on my windows, as soon as I started running a dehumidifier it has solved my issue, no more condensation, no more mold
I lived in Ukraine during long blackouts and ONE thing I learned very quickly without heat (and there is no heat if you dont have power for a weeks, trust me, you need power for modern systems as all of them use pumps) your house gets cold fast, so please, insulate your houses, it will give you confidence in this times and also bring your heating bill down
Advice I suspect this country might need in about 2027
A fireplace in the living room/dining area would be a really good backup, preferably with integrated stove plates. Would that be common in the Ukraine?
@@ChristianWagner888 old houses were build around fireplace. In more modern builings (1970+) only riches have fireplace, other have wood boilers, and it needs pump to circulate water to panel heaters
@@edc1569 I'd pray for that but every one of my colleges in UK said its cold inside their house, +17 on average while at my home in Ukraine we kept 22 :D
@@mr_DIY interesting that most modern homes in the Ukraine do not include a fireplace any more. A minimal solar system with lithium batteries should be able to keep circulating pumps and control electronics running. A modern heating circulating pump needs less than 20 Watts. It would be relatively inexpensive to add such a system as a backup.
There's a guy on YT, Glyn Hudson, who last year installed a haet pump in his house, with some surprising results. His 2 bed house is mainly solid wall construction and end of terrace. It has double glazing throughout, good insulation and good airtightness.
He wanted to aim for a 4+ COP with a low flow temperature of between 30-35C. He was replacing an LPG gas boiler. He had to upgrade all the rads to account for the lower flow temp.
One year later and his results were excellent. He achieved a COP of 4.2, flow temp of 35C and his house was warm throughout. His electricity costs for 9 month period was £600.
I think what surprised me was he achieved this in a solid wall house with only loft insulation and UPVC windows, no solid wall insualtion.
Impossible!
So he's paid out £10,000 for a heating system that breaks even with a gas boiler!!!
Please tell what the point of that is??
COP of 4 is the equivalent of paying for gas as it 4x cheaper than electric,
In other words he's completely wasted his time & money,
Until electricity prices reduce your not saving anything compared to a high efficiency gas boiler 🤦♂️
@@pauldavies7251 You must have replied to the wrong comment 🤭
Hi Roger at Skill builder, I follow many of your informative videos (Utube) and find a lot of tips very good. We have air source heating in a bungalow and must say that it was several years learning curve to get accustomed to it. The local Authority installed it but never demonstrated how to get the best from it. I have watched many videos of info and understand fairly well how to get the best use. On your subject of mould and damp: we have had extractors fitted in bathroom and kitchen which sense moisture, we also use a Dehumidifier when cooking or airing washing, I recently purchased a passive dehumidifier which works amazingly well collecting about a litre of water in a month. The portable electric Dehumidifier is cheap to run and tends to return warm air into the room and the chemical Dehumidifier needs a new cartridge about every eight weeks. Hope this info helps your followers. Thanks Arty
I was having issues with some damp when moving into my flat, biggest problem is the bathroom is in the centre of the flat. Tried different de humidifiers (Gel and small de humidifiers are pointless in my experience), different tricks to reduce (A channel recommended a window vac for after the shower, didn't really work for me). In the end simplified a vent pipe for the bathroom (Had a flexible hose which I replaced for cut bits of pipe) and opening the windows for a few hours a day worked for me, so I tend open 2 windows to get flow through for about 2 hours a day during winter. Also its worth getting a temperature stat with humidity so you can experiment yourself.
I had condensation issues last winter. I started opening the windows once or twice a day for 2 or 3 minutes that seems to have stopped the condensation so far this winter. I don't think I loose too much heat as the fresh air soon gets warm.
I leave all my windows open at night in winter
@@danieladams7919 I do better than that, I uses 6 18" fans to create a through draft of 1200l/s, you have to use bungees to keep the duvet down, but no sign of damp.
@@edc1569 That's a great idea I'm going to do that as-well.
Ecoair DD1 Simple. £187.
do you have propper ventilation in the room?
Just a few years younger than you. I remember frost on inside of window panes right up to late 1970s in digs in central London. We slept in sleeping bags with socks and woolly hats. It was a cold winter, snow blew under the eaves and onto the lath and plaster above the bedrooms, pipes were lead and ran up outside of the building (basement flat, 1st floor office, we were on top two floors in Manchester Street, W1) so they burst and we were fetching water in buckets from the basement for three months. Just wear thermal underwear with a scarf or a buff from a bike shop.
I grew up without central heating with an open fire in the living room which was central to the house. Had frost inside the windows and survived.
i grew up in the 90s with no heating as all gas applianes were condemned and we were too poor to have it fixed. you could peel sheets of ice off the inside of the windows. i wore 2 sets of clothes, hat and gloves to bed. often i barely slept as shivered through the night. i survived.
it was miserably shit and i dont blame anyone not wanting to put up with feeling cold
I grew up in a salted goldfish bowl in a funfair at minus 400 degrees with glass shards and rusty nails poured on the family daily.
Actually, grew up with my mum, unable to afford heating bar a one bottle gas fire, secondhand mattresses, damp all over the walls, couldn't afford a bath so had to stand in the kitchen sink (when young of course), no shower, shoes that didn't fit until my feet bled as I was forced to put them on for school, couldn't afford wallpaper so had secondhand comic pages glued to the wall with paste made from old flour. Whilst my father had his own aeroplane and flew me to his yacht in the south of France for holidays. Strange life isn't it... Not sure where these posts came from or why, but life does fascinate me, especially when so many foreigners come over and live extremely well for doing sod all and say 'we' repressed them. Did I? Did we? (thinking of the lads posting above). I don't recall breaking the law and do remember having several jobs as a teenager (usually 4 as well as the Territorial Army, plus college), always ready to help others and keen to learn and get on, then spent years running my own aid organisation 100% out of my own pocket for people and children less well, mostly off in European war zones and orphanages (Bosnia, Poland, Russia). I'll never forget the Catholic Sisters of a very poor orphanage in SW Ireland in the early 90s giving us the WW1 straw ex British army mattresses to use for aid workers on one of my busses so we could get going on one trip, nor the mother who got on her knees to say thanks in Bosnia for getting her little son laughing for the first time in years after seeing the rest of his family blown to pieces. Are we that bad? Am I that bad? Just a bit sick of the scroungers, economic migrants posing as refugees, race grifters and blamers now, and that certainly includes 'our' politicians, the inept and corrupt and either way unaffordable UK 'family' courts and the shite UK thought police. Here's to those genuinely with less than us who cannot help themselves who are now pushed out of help's way by the despicable.
My old double glazing used to stream with water every morning, and I was getting mold in the corners of rooms. After installing a piv 0 water on the windows and 0 mold. Yes it can be cooler in the hall but it’s 100% fixed my issues
Good video Roger, only one thing, a breezy cold morning can change the air inside a house in minutes and introduce near bone dry air when there is a frost or at least dew.
This seems wasteful opening windows even for 3 or 4 minutes but the thermal mass of that air is minimal and will warm again in minutes bur the moisture it removes would take Kwh's of energy with a dehumidifier to remove, cheers.
This is a good point, people should simply open their windows for a few minutes every day, no matter how cold it is - it didn't actually cause a big difference to the property temperature. Even if it's raining outside, the incoming air's humidity will be a lot lower than what you have inside due to the temperature difference - I think there's lack of unnderstanding about relative vs. specific/absolute humidity amongst the public which causes this issue.
@@aliasgharkhoyee9501 This normally takes me less than 2 weeks to get the house from Summer/Autumn humidity of 65%+ to less than 50% Winter, it's free and I do it while my wife is shut in the shower, cheers.
@@ooslum2 weeks?
@@andyphillips7435 2 weeks but only 3 or 4 minutes each day and then only the cold and breezy ones, probably less than 30 minutes of windows open in that 2 weeks, cheers.
I picked this video to learn about new heating systems in 2024 and I haven't heard anything yet about heating systems and I'm already two thirds of the way through the video so I would say don't waste your time
The takeaway from this is there is no definite answer he outlined all of the issues surrounding heating I appreciate Roger can waffle but you need to ask yourself all of the questions he addresses .Im not defending him but he usually hits the nail on the head. I do not pretend to know the answer to the best heating system for a specific property ,you need to have several so called experts come and survey your property and give you a report on your situation .Then add two divide it by three subtract ten for salesman’s bullshit and you will have your answer
I'm using far infrared panels, & bars wall/ ceiling, all fully controlled via an app or Alexa! Can turn on & set the thermostat temp, can turn on a single room or multiple rooms...
Loving it, best thing I ever installed... Connect to WiFi (also has handheld remotes, or panel controls)
Drill the wall etc... lift on & plug in!
Brilliant, no need for the GSH!
What about your electricity bill?
@awpetersen5909 Because I can heat a room, for a certain amount of time, or let the thermostat, do its thing they are decent on the electric, I have 1.2kw bar heaters, that I can set to 600w, sometimes I have on full power, for say 20 to 30 minutes, then set to low power. The other flat panels, are a mix, from 350w up to 700w. But like I say, I can set them to come on & off or stay on with the thermostat cut in & out...
But I normally just say= Alexa turn on Master Bedroom for 1 hour etc... before I go to bed, or go to the app & turn on the living room for when I'm returning home etc.. etc...
So, the heaters aren't constantly on say 3 to 6 hours a day or whatever & at a weekend, as a family we tend to be in the living room, so we heat it as required, then if it's cold b4 bed, I'll get the kids rooms warmed up & the Master Bedroom, before they/ we go up... Also, the App or Alexa will tell me the current temperature of said rooms 👍👍 to see if they need heating. Normally without heating, the bedrooms are around 15 to 16°c so to bring up to 18 or 20 etc... it's not a big task.
Also the items (Wall, Floors Furniture etc) give off their heat, when bars/panels (All non light kind) are off.
You can heat, where you want to heat 👍👍
Might get solor in the future, with batteries, then the heating will be most likely be free!
In my small room I installed a small wood burner, at the time I didn't think it would be anywhere near enough but it's so damn good. Really quick to bring the room from 8C to 25C, couple of hours and I can keep it at that temp no problem. I did try a little electric heater before that and it simply didn't work well enough and was really expensive. It couldn't get the room past 15C to be honest so I've pretty much turned off electric heaters now. I have pretty good insulation in my room as well though, few areas to improve though. It's very well ventilated, walls are entirely open other then rockwool so air can pass in and out with less restriction. Keeps the heat in well enough though. I think if I was going to build again there are some things to improve though but I think that will always be the case.
8c indoors sounds very cold 🥶
Im not sure why you'd think burning actual lumps of tree in a small room isn't going to keep you warm
We dry clothes around the houses on the radiators. When the wood burner is on, it seems to take the damp air and sends it up the chimney. Our 1960's is reasonably well insulated but theres enough drafts for outside air to be pulled in. Simple but effective. Getting heatlogs in the summer in bulk bags saves a ton of cash over oil costs
Dropped down to 6C a few times but once the wood burner is going it climbs pretty fast. Most I had it up to was 27C and then I let it go out.@@Liverpool1ne
@@gazrgazr2394 It's a small burner so it's a bit difficult to control the temperature. Once I have it going nice I just turn it down but it draws in enough air for it to keep burning pretty well regardless so the temp just climbs. Tricky to put big bits on because the door is narrow but long so I try and cut narrow long peices but those still burn pretty quick about every 45-60 minutes or so. Regardless it's still a million times better then any electric radiator.
I have MVHR Roger, and I've fitted humidity and temperature sensors to the extract and tempered fresh air supply. It does work and the efficiency is 80%+. 21c out and 18-19c back in to the house in the coldest months. Of course one can not expect 100% efficiency, however I'd rather be bringing 18c air back in than 2c! It's also solved our damp and mould issues. It also costs pennies to run, averaging about 18w power consumption.
Hmm thats 3 light bulbs on 24/7 vs opening a window for 5 mins
I have watched many of your videos and like the common sense approach to all subjects. This topic addresses the lack of common sense which most households have to keeping warm. The lifestyle is the crucial factor as most people will have their heating on under the thermostat all the time. I am a plumber so have installed many systems. I run my system manually so if its cold and I am at home all day I put it on at 52degrees. If I'm out all day and home at 4.00 I put it on at 70 for 2 hours. Never on in the mornings as I can remember scraping the ice off the INSIDE of my bedroom windows! Combi hot water so monthly gas and electric £97 for a 3 bed detached house.
Had to educate my son and his friend who just moved into a flat and were drying washing with all the windows shut tight.
Condensation pouring down windows.
I use an EcoAir desiccant dehumidifier, which works a treat. It also adds a little heat to the room, and sometimes that's all it needs to maintain a nice temperature. Another good thing about it is that it's made in the UK.
We have been using those for years! We have two on permanently.
We sometimes run our portable dehumidifier in the winter in our sunroom. Good bathroom ventilation during showers/bath helps. If you ever see condensation on your bathroom mirror you know your ventilation fan is not working correctly.
For an old house, wood burner or open fire everytime. That’s what they were ‘designed’ for - they draw moist air through the chimney, dry out damp, and don’t contribute to condensation in the way that a gas fire or combi boiler would. Downside? You need to make up the fire everytime - but once it’s going, you’ll be toasty. For a modern, well insulated and airtight home - ASHP - but you need to recognise the fact that it’ll need to run 24/7 at tickover, and realise that you won’t be able to boost the temperature without incurring higher bills.
I remember London when every home had an open fire, no damp, but you'd cough up the soot every morning.
And heat pumps are least cost-efficient when it gets properly cold (around freezing point) i.e. when you need them the most, and tend to break down or stop working more often (to defrost) during the depths of winter.
@@aliasgharkhoyee9501 That's not strictly accurate, most 2023 heat pumps properly designed & installed will provide sufficient heat to @ -15C outside. With a short defrost cycle (part of normal process), John Cantor has some very good presentations & tools to use for heat pump calculations, and Glyn Hudson has done an interesting install recently (search youtube).
Heat pumps are less complex than a combi gas boiler, so less likely to have problems if installed and set up correctly.
@@_Dougaldog newer heat pumps are definitely better (in terms of working in colder temperatures), but it's also widely accepted that their cost effectiveness is much lower in such weather - heat pump manufacturers and advocates all agree about this, it's not debated.
@@aliasgharkhoyee9501 Agreed, and conversely their cost effectiveness is higher in not so cold periods, the SCOP ( average over year) is the figure that most would use as a cost comparison reference, and is typically @ 3.7
A couple of cats with no cat flap ensures that you have to open doors often. They also take their time in deciding to actually go in or out leaving you holding the door open for longer.
Well done Roger. People don't realise how important air changes are. No matter how you try, can't change the laws of nature. Comfort for us, not the mould.
I have a whole bungalow with heat recovery (MVHR). Dampness has gone, very little mould now, not that it was a real problem. two bathrooms with a shower toilet and sink one being a wet room for a wheelchair user. They do dry out pretty quick when the HVAC goes on boost. Despite all the claims of being energy efficient my electric bill has more than doubled in winter due to (Like what was said in the video ) the real-life situation of lost heat a hell of a lot of it. Also to note I thought it may have been the unit itself I replaced it with a different model with no difference then I changed the make, which only increased my losses. The downside is you cannot turn them off without doing a before and after thorough cleaning of the pipes and parts due to mould spores taking over the unit. Filters are cleaned monthly.
Most of the year our heating system is Totally Free Solar™, keeping us at a comfy 27 to 33 degrees in the shade. On exceptional days in the mountains our heating system is firewood, if it ever gets below 24 degrees Celsius and we feel like putting on a jumper in the Philippines 😜
On the ventilation/condensation issue; PIV works well for me. Before fitting a Nuaire unit about 10 years ago, I had very bad condensation on all windows, even with a comfortable level of heating. The only way to get the condensation under control was to have fanlight windows open all evening and morning before work, and "locked open" for the rest of the time. This was without drying laundry inside, and always using extractor fans. Within a week of fitting the PIV unit - all condensation issues completely disappeared. Even during a long shower, the most that ever appears is a light misting (rather than large beads of water) on a part of the glass in the bathroom (nowhere else), and only on the coldest days. Drafts aren't an issue for me - but I situated my unit above where the main trunk of heating pipes run through the attic, so hopefully gain just a little a bit more pre-heating than just ambient loft air. The flow rates seem to be low enough that not much heat is actually moved anyway - it certainly doesn't feel cold in the hallway where the ceiling diffuser is located. Better yet - heating bills actually reduced, presumably because it is easier to heat drier air, and also because the heating didn't need running more in futile attempts to dry things out. You have to exchange the air anyway, not just for humidity, but also for CO2 levels, so you might as well do it in a controlled way.
I have never been able to justify the cost of MVHR in a retrofit, over just fitting PIV. The payback period, even if the MVHR reaches the questionable efficiency figures, means you'll be replacing the unit due to fan failure before it has saved you anything in heating costs.
I’ve always lived in Pennsylvania USA. Starting as a child we would burn wood in our coal furnace in the fall and then switch to coal during the winter. After being married we did the same thing because the house we rented had a coal furnace. Because it was small we were able to convert oil heating unit. we did rent a few different places over the that included the heat. Moving to Western Pennsylvania because of a transfer over employment, then we used natural gas which was excellent and we did own one home that had electric heat. I would recommend that anyone insulate insulate insulate particularly in the attic. I had to do it today building a new home, I would get an electric hot water boiler with baseboard heat and zoned heat. When you think about it the heat is 100% efficient, nothing going up a chimney. There’s no tank to fill and no pipes coming into your house with gas. Whatever heat you put in that house unless you lose it through the windows walls or roof, it heats your home.. With the proper insulation, it’s the most efficient that I can think of nowadays.
MVHR can be a minefield of costs. We had a quote for £5k for just the materials. I ended up doing it DIY for around £1300. Though we live in a bungalow and we're doing renovations at the same time. Getting on OK with it. We had PIV before and it worked well for mould but would blow in cold air in the winter and hot air in the summer.
Dry washing on radiator all the time , no extractor fans at . Just open bathroom window when showering. Use approximately 12000kwh of gas a year in 2 bed bungalow At approximately 21c 7.30 am till 11.00pm October through April. NO DAMP issues at all. All standard installation , nothing special.
Don’t leave doors open to rooms much colder than main living area as warm moist air will rush in and condense on the cold spots, do this to often and damp will spread in the walls.
Appreciate this! Im DIY renovating my 1930s house atm and as ive never had it heated, i have no idea if itll have mold or damp issues. So do i invest in MVHR now or just plop a PIop a PIV if i get issues later.
Single glazed windows acting as ''passive dehumidifiers' My house is proof of that, built in the 70s, still retains its single glazed windows. There are days when they stream with condensation but I have never had any mould problems, ever. My daughter, living in a similar house but with double glazing has a constant war with mould, on the walls, ceilings, curtains everywhere. As you rightly said, it's a problem with no easy solution.
A dehumidifier is a game changer plus give out a bit of heat so it's a win win. Get the humidity down your heating has to work less.
I installed a Mitsubishi Lossnay heat recovery ventilation system a couple of years ago. I live at the top the South Island in NZ. It works brilliantly, but I do agree with you, Roger, claimed efficiency may be overstated.
This was a very useful review of the problems and solutions but I can’t understand why you didn’t mention the great usefulness of portable dehumidifiers - we have 2 in our house one of which is on all night on the nighttime electricity tariff which creates a laundry drying out of the spare bedroom whenever we need it - which is very often at this time of year⁉️
I have two dehumidifiers. If I didn't mention it then I meant to
Yep, we have two, too! Both dessicant, both British, both whisper quiet. We leave them on 24 hours a day.
Glad you replied … thanks👍 If you get the chance sometime to talk about Portable Dehumidifiers (electric air conditioner ones) I think many people would be interesting as to why they are a maximally efficient and cost effective way to combat condensation and keep the house at the optimum healthy humidity.
2 minutes of shock venting in the morning is all I need. All windows just before everyone wakes up is enough to drop 10% relative humidity in a 3 bed semi. I quite like seeing the windows steam up on the outside when the windows open.
Gas heating for me, I have a high efficiency condensing boiler running at a temperature which keeps it in condensing mode, the power to the boiler is from a supply which can be connected to a generator when needed, this is important because the power network is not robust enough to support EV vehicles and electric boilers, had lots of power cuts but never a gas cut.
And that's precisely why they want everyone on a single energy source that can easily be turned off.
@@paul756uk2 Exactly, we might think we have a choice, but in reality we don’t, if it’s not going in our overlords way, watch the price of gas become unaffordable.
Bingo.
What country do you live in? Power cuts are thankfully very rare in the UK unless you're really rural, and thats nothing to do with EVs, rather its the overhead infrastructure.
That’s true, the main issue seems to be underground joints failing, to be honest it’s amazing that the legacy infrastructure cabling is coping with the ever increasing demands without the whole lot burning up lol
For context, I’ve used my home generator to power house essentials 3 times, the maximum period was 4hrs due to overhead line issues.
Vailiant ecofit pure 835. Gas boiler all day. Oversize your radiators. Turn your boiler down. Everyones a winner
Why oversize.
As usual, spot on, common sense advice. Thanks Roger. It all takes a bit of effort, which, sadly many people are not prepared to expend.
Building Regulations Part F "Ventilation" is one of the most important of the regs as this does have a direct impact on health if it's done wrong.
Proper air flow , air balance , heat exchangers are key with modern air tight and well insulated houses, R50 in the attic and R22 rock wool in the walls, triple glazed windows, make the house even reasonable to -40c in canada, you need heat / air exchangers
our house is over 300 years old no problem with mold however much washing is dried due to the drafts which also means log burners are only worthwhile heat source which do run central heating but those rads however hot they get just remove chill and dont make a room comfortable
I contain any moisture making activities to the individual rooms then use a dehumidifier also open windows where possible .
Air with lower humidity is easier and cheaper to heat than moisture laden air so good ventilation pays for itself despite some heat loss. Vent when you are out and shut windows when you are home. Only needs a bit of effort.
Fantastic, as always you tell the truth, easy to understand. As we know the UK has the worst built homes in Europe which is a big shame, we deserve better and NO government cares. 🤩👍
A dehumidifier can be a good idea!
We live in the sticks, and I have a wood stove that heats rads and HW.
Just refurbishing the house and am going with an lpg bulk tank and system boiler.
Even with government grants in Ireland, I would need to invest 30k plus to stand a chance with a heat pump.
Instead I have a well insulated house that needs minimal heat, and costs very little to run.
I grew up in a house with one coal fire and ice on the glass inside on bedroom widows
Jack Frost often visited to draw patterns on the windows.
I loved that,waking up to see the crazy patterns on the glass. The symetry was what got me.
Not many heatpumps need 3 phase. All the newer models are inverter driven so don't have big current draws on start up. A 12kw HP will draw less than an electric shower. A small 5kw unit for a flat or terraced house draws about the same as a kettle.
Where are you buying a 5kw kettle? And a 21 Amp socket to plug it in
@@Phantom-mk4kpit's 5kW output, the input will be about 2kW max, and most of the time less. Common misconception with heat pumps.
Brian
You say 'not many' which means some do and for that reason I am saying it is worth checking that detail before you start. Don't just assume.
5kw is tiny just isn't enough my mums 1 bed bungalow has a 14kw mitsubishi system and it's not exactly brilliant or fast at heating.
@@HA05GER As a thought 14kW might be oversized and not running at any decent efficiency if its continually cycling on/off.
My small 2 bed semi bungalow has been recently sized @ 6kW HP for heating and hot water (designed for 45C flow to radiators @ external temp' of -3.5C, 55C to HWC). Ideally system should use weather compensation and just tick away in background.
If system is oversized then might be very costly to run.
I cut of a section from my liquid cooling garment, made belts from tape and wrapped them round the canister. Then made an arch from my EVA card over the top of the canister. Stopped the bypass hole with a towel. Taped another bag on the other side of the canister. Then added a suit hose to one side of the canister. Then attached the other end of the hose to the ventilation system of the lunar payload system. Which has a water recovery system and a circulating fan. Now I can dry my clothes without opening any windows.
One thing to take into consideration when opening the windows to air the rooms out is what the outside humidity level is compared to the inside humidity level. My living room is at 71% when I type this unfortunately the outside humidity is 91%, so not a lot of point in me opening the windows today.
That 91% is relative humidity though. The air is much colder than the air in your living room. Once that air comes in and is heated, it will be able to hold more moisture. It will likely be less than 71% humidity.
many thanks for the info , I will look into it and try it and see what happens. I take it that its more dew point that has the effect of dampness. Thanks again@@aluminumfalcun
Buy a dehumidifier. I got a probreeze 20L and it ran for a week solid, pulling out like 20 liters of water. (Everything got damp) it now only turns on when we are drying laundry. Maybe 5 liters in the last 10 days. So that would be 6 hours active run time in the winter. The high humidity happened in the fall. 10C with 100% relative humidity is hell. It is now freezing so the co2 extraction fans probly keep enough fresh air entering.
Run a humidifier plus you get a bit of heat from running them. Once it's run for a while it'll just kick on every so often. Ours has probably kicked in for half hour today and we dry quite a bit in the house with 4 kids.
thank you all for the helpful information
I guess it's different where I live. We have to run humidifiers all winter because we have such low humidity...
One of my tenants reported mould. After checking the photos from the recent inspecting and comparing to the check in photos, she had poly filled the air brick!
Throughout my place i have small battery powered (thermometers) with humidity readers. i’m used to catching a glance and choosing to put a sweater on or even an old-fashion sleep cap or socks.
So year around, i alternate between room fans, open window in bathroom after I squeegee the shower walls,t dehumidifier only for rainy seasons, an air conditioner that sits 75 % outside and which cycles sometimes to a short dry mode for itself. I prefer a chill over dry skin. Heat is off if it’s 40ish or at least no freeze is expected.
Patched up openings around pipes. Cover unused outlets with plastic child safety caps. Hang curtains at windows.
All of the above 🎉🎉 is okay with me to avoid dehydration, reduce chance of moisture damage is worth my health and saves money.
Also for me it’s better to be cooler in winter so I don’t require heavier coats etc.
The only thing I'd raise is that with the current gas / oil prices, oil is currently cheaper than gas by a fair bit so if anything, a heat pump would be more viable for a property with a gas boiler.
The flexible Octopus tariff is currently 6.93p/kWh for gas with a 27.47p/day standing charge. Last time we purchased oil (May), we paid 56p/litre which works out to be £0.0541/kWh. (Both numbers are before you count the efficiency of the boiler, which gas would typically win on due to them being modulating boilers).
On PIV heaters, I do wonder why they don't add a radiator coil so that you can use your existing heating rather than having a resistive electric heater. That would be much cheaper to run.
You can get wet heaters for MVHR systems, so you could technically hook up the central heating to it. Not sure there are any units with it built in.
@@cingramuk Very good shout, there are some 200mm units on Ebay (I believe that's the right size for the Nuaire PIV systems) which would be suitable. Worth noting that they tend to be designed for horizontal duct use (Due to the pipework inside, you wouldn't be able to bleed them if you mounted them vertically) so some ductwork would be required but it's a good way to add another radiator to your house without it taking up space. I calculated about 1.7kW of heat with a 60C flow temperature for the one I found.
@@yngndrw. I've seen them used mostly in the States from YT vids I've seen. I think they are really meant to just tamper the air coming in, to get it to the room temp, rather than heat the room but dont see a reason why you couldn't give it the full flow from the system and let it do a bit of heating. I guess the cost may outweigh the benefits. I looked at adding a similar electric heater to mine and switch it on during the cheap period on my EV tariff. Could get a 3kW heater, but with the other electric heaters I have in the house (inc 2x 3kW Willis heaters inline on my UFH), plus EV charger, plus DWH immersion, it was getting a bit close to the supply limit and I'm not sure it would make a huge difference for the cost. I need to get my biomass swapped for a ASHP and be done with fanny on with other temp solutions!
They should play this one in schools top job 👍
An electric dehumidifier will remove some moisture, and add a bit of heat.
Many, many years ago the BBC ran a programme called house of the future. A barn was converted to a home. Of all the new ideas done at that time. The heat recovery was the most efficient. It has always been something that I remember from that show.. Wish they would do a update
Heat recovery ventilation is well and good, but you do need some source for the heating in the first place - did the program go over heat sources too?
We installed new double glazing and got the situation with black mold around the windows. Installed one heat exchanger wall ventilator that have a ceramic block in that blow out for 2 minutes and pull air in for another 2 minutes so the heat is transfered back into the air but the moisture is left outside. Uses 3watt and I bouth the expencive one that should have a 95% recovery.. We use it at the lowest setting and the room it is in has no radiator - only appliances and it is not colder than before - only in direct wind it let cold win through and we have to push the hatch to close it.
What heat exchanger did you buy?
Great post. Very well explained.
I have heat recovery system and in the moment works at 73 %.
I can send you some data (readings) if you like.
I have a MVHR which I pull stats off :
Outside air temp - 10c
Outside Exhaust - 10.4c
Supply to House temp - 16.9c
House temp - 18.2c
Seems pretty efficient. I'm sure someone can work out the efficiency based on these numbers
Mine is very similar. Worth emphasising that having it means you can go absolutely ham on airtightness, so even if it's only 70pc efficient, it's allowed you to close up loads of holes in the house and conserve heat.
You have mentioned extraction but nothing on dehumidifiers. Yes this uses electricity but we put small 20W ones on our window sill and find it reduces the moisture significantly on the window. When drying washing we use a larger one with humidistat to keep RH at about 50%. We only need to run that for an hour or two.
sorry I thought I did mention them
You can have a heat pump, you can have an MHVR system; on my travels I've become really interested in the more hybrid of the two: EAHP. One of the reasons is I'm in a new build which is pretty efficient, but also fairly relatively air tight. An air to water heat pump might be too big most of the time, but an MHVR is doing most of the work, but then you don't get hot water. An EAHP in theory can solve all these things in one package, with the addition of vents. The more I look into them the more annoyed I get that they're not standard on new build houses tbh. I'm still 18-24 months out from really making a firm decision, but they are really interesting.
I have a vent Axia heat recovery extractor - the way they can claim 80% efficiency is that the ratio of incoming air is a lot less than the outgoing air so it's a negative pressure system which for me is fine. They can't achieve better than that for equal air out = equal air in as you rightly say - the tube is only 12" long and with air moving out at a fair rate of knots the system cannot achieve more heat recovery, This is far better than positive input ventilation that just blows cold air into the house and to add insult has a 150 watt heater to warm the stale smelling loft fumes!
That’s interesting - I bought a PIV - although it’s not yet fitted, in the hope that it would help with moisture. Is yours an old or modern house? (Mine was built in 1916).
agreed heat recovery is a lot better, installers love PIV as its super easy to install, can bash out a load of jobs each day and they all involved exactly the same process.
Sorry but I feel the need to correct you on the electrical supply issue, in rural locations which as you stated "an overhead supply" you might struggle to get 3 phase (3Ph) . Quite the contrary, most rural locations are supplied via a TT 3Ph overhead supply e.g Farms. It is much easier to access a 3Ph supply in a rural are than in a city or town as the cost of running a line overhead is much cheaper than the ground ground works required to install in a built environment. Also there are many new build applications looking into supplying newer properties with a 3Ph and not single Ph supply. The main issue of electricity supply is the old outdated built environment looped supplies that also effect the installation of solar PV and EV charge systems.
I'm rural, we have no 3ph, they wanted tens of thousands to get it here from the nearest substation which was miles away. We live in a farmhouse with other farms around us.
It all depends on the medium voltage network in your area. If you have a three phase 11kV supply to your transformer, upgrades are much more reasonable - But some rural properties have only two 11kV phases going to the transformer and it costs a lot to upgrade those. (I believe the DNO charges for any changes to the voltage you're using and the voltage level above, then pays for anything above that.)
The advantage in rural areas is that it's overhead, so cable changes (Especially on the low voltage side) are much cheaper as they an just zip along in a cherry picker and upgrade them. It's also often much easier to get the permits to close rural roads.
As an example, we have three phase 11kV to our transformer, but a single phase transformer and about 80m of low voltage overhead cabling to our property. (The supply only feeds us and next door) We asked for a quote to upgrade this to a three phase 40kVA supply and the quote they gave was £8,000 + VAT. This was for a proportion of the cost of the transformer (I think they wanted to put in a 100kVA transformer and would charge us 4/10 of that price), the cost of upgrading the low voltage cabling and of course any permits etc required.
In an urban environment, chances are there's already a low voltage three phase supply running past your house so it's typically just the cost of digging up the road and installing a new low voltage cable to your house. Some rural properties also have a three phase supply outside of course, but it's less likely as the transformers typically supply fewer properties unless you're in a little village.
@@yngndrw.Even with the cost of the extra transformer and cabling you're in a much better situation than. Most UK urban housing for a 100A 3Ph supply due to there being less loading in the system locally and the less balancing being needed. As you mention the cost is higher due to the need for the new transformer install and extra cabling required but this is far easier (although not cheaper) than converting a urban domestic property to 3Ph
@@lksf9820out of curiosity what location are you ininthe UK? Most rural areas around the Northwest I have worked on all have a 3Ph supply very close by and it is mainly a transformer cost issue that is the limit?
@@glynjones8187 Northwest, on the Pennine moors.
High quality , great debate. How about a free standing dehumidifier. It’s portable cheap to run . Some put out heat as well.
I was very interested to hear your comment on condensation on single glazed windows.
I have always regarded mine as a dehumidifier when dried with my dyson window vac.
I have no damp or mould problems.
Thanks for your great videos.
lack of ventilation is your problem
I don't have a problem.
@@wilkie4142sure, no one admits that :D
We incorporated a self contained air recycling system in a large detached house over 40 years ago with control over how much fresh air was introduced into the fan unit located in the attic with a vent to the outside. We also had pot and beam floors on both levels with underfloor heating. The house runs on pennies .as the boiler only operates at low temperatures.I can’t. Believe that builders are still building new £500,000 houses with radiator systems and no air recycling. No radiators is amazing and no air ventilation with. Loss of heat Should all be in building regs by now.on all new build. With improved insulation and tripleglazing to large. Windows.
A sensibly sized combi boiler with the correct controls. Easy.
My loft is freezing! Lots to think about - I wish you would offer more technical solutions than the gas boiler.
Getting my back boiler ripped out and a combi fitted in new year.. was gonna put a wet stove in, but decided to go for the combi/log burner option… ASHP’s? No thanks
Good choice.
My in laws did the same 10 years ago - their gas bill almost halved.
Great post, I've got gas boiler combi, works fine, I'm wondering how I can retrieve the heat from the outlet to the air, it seems the by process of our heat is being exhausted outside.
Make sure it’s a condensing boiler as this already cools the the escaping vapour.
If it is then your next step is flue gas heat recovery.
Get your boiler range rated and temps set where they need to be and correctly sized rads. Bigger the better, (ideally underfloor)
I've just gone from Electric and Gas to just Electric in the house. Sounds strange to alot of people but it's a small house and the boiler takes up quite a bit of space so that's gone. I've got electric radiators (Not heaters) that work well and have been quite efficient. It's costing roughly £50 more a month than when I had Gas and Electric but the goal is to get solar and batteries going forward and I want to get to a point where over a year it's then less than the Electric and Gas which I think we can do. I can only see energy prices continuing to rise going forward so wanted to take some control early by taking the hit now rather than later. I use ecostrad ceramic iq radiators and they do work well around the house, plus individually controlled and alexa controlled allows for alot of leniancy. When I say it's £50 more a month that's with the heating on all day and night, we also have an electric shower now to due to boiler removal.
I think it's the right decision in the extreme long run but we'll see. I feel like this only works for fairly small houses and wouldn't work for larger houses though.
I made a choice not to fit a gas boiler when I renovated my house. We have electric panel heaters on timers, an immersion heater, and a couple of gas fires. I wanted 2 wood burners - but my wife vetoed me! It’s an old single skin brick house, with PVCU windows, and condensation is a bit of a problem - the bills over the last couple of years have been frightening, but I tend to keep a large credit on my electricity bill. I might vetoe my wife, and get 2 wood burners fitted - it would transform the house into something really warm during the winter.
@@simonhodgetts6530 They only work if you can get wood for free and feeding two will see you up and down like a yoyo all evening. They were a good idea 20yrs ago, but since the World and his wife jumped on the bandwagon wood is now expensive. When our free wood has run out I won't be using it any longer, we get through 7 m3 of wood per year in a small/medium one.
It's generally not a good ideal to to ditch a wet system for resistive heaters and batteries, you're going to need 3x the batteries to run resistive heaters than you would have needed to run a heat pump. Those batteries may have an 8 year limited warranty, but you will need to plan to replace them after 10. You are totally vulnerable to the price of off-peak electricity closing in on on-peak electricity.
The only time I would suggest it is for properties with low or seasonal occupancy.
@@edc1569 It's the opposite for me unless I'm misunderstanding energy (I'm no expert but I've been trying as I've developed the house to learn as I go and have a good chat with my electrician constantly who uses a heat pump, solar and all sorts). But total radiator power is 7,600 watts. It's why my energy bill arguably isn't hugely different, although as I say it's a bit more at the moment. But again the idea is Solar on the Roof and Cabin and go from there. We'll see if it works, I believe it will in the long run 5-10 years.
Grateful for anyone who can give me an idea of wet underfloor heating running costs. I’m looking at buying a home which is a converted building (2015), 2 bed semi or around 1400 square feet total. WUFH downstairs and radiators upstairs. EPC is a B. I noticed it was very warm when I viewed but the vendor had the room thermostats set at 25 degrees. To save money, my current gas fired radiator set up is rarely set at more than 15 degrees and on for an hour first thing, lunch time and an hour in the evening. It goes up to 18 degrees when really cold outside. I’ve read mixed things about running costs for Ufh systems. Grateful for any personal experience or advice.
You mention the issue of humidity which is really important. Might a dehumidifier unit be the best solution, particularly for those drying clothes indoors? (I've asked for one for Xmas!) Thanks for explaining the PIR as well - I've heard of these but didn't fully understand them.
I have a fairly large dehumidifier which came with my house (ex rental which had leaking pipes in the kitchen, landlord just gave them a dehumidifier lol). If I run it for a few hours in the room with my laundry it collects several litres of water, kind of blows my mind just how much water it's able to gather.
With the heat recovery ventilation units, if they are moving the same amount of air in as out, then the best they can possibly thermally do is recover half the heat. At this point the incoming and outgoing air will be at the same temp, i.e. halfway between the inside and outside temps.
I assume the '80% efficient' units are getting 80% of the way to this theoretical limit, i.e. recovering 40% of the heat that would otherwise be lost. Not terrible but misleading.
I guess if warm moisture from inside condenses in the HX some additional heat will also be recovered, and need a drain for the condensate.
Whenever im in i always have my windows open a bit upstairs. If im usong my pc which is near the window ill open it a bit more as the pc heats up the room a bit. Any electrical device like that is creating heat and if you are using it anyway for something else its free heat.
I also leave the oven open after cooking too to use that heat, but only if its something that smells good. Not fish of course 😂
For decades we hear about heat loss and such like, yet one of the main heat losses occur at external doors.
I cannot understand why we do not provide an air lock at these locations to keep the volume of heat loss to a minimum where recovery time would keep bills lower .
Better design of utility rooms for washing /drying and showering to keep moist air and heat in one place & extract moist air at that location .
Good point about our generation! My teens consider shorts and t-shirt to be all-year round homewear. To be absolutely honest, I feel that much of the Climate "emergency" stuff is overhyped - it's the big causenof the generation before the one that's obsessing about gender (mine was CND...). But - most of the stresses of my generation arose from being too closely coupled with the oil producers - so taking away power (literally) from OPEC and Putin through windmills might just make political- if not economic sense. But our house is 400+ years old - the moisture goes up the chimney! Excellent vid, as ever. Thank you.
I've got a PIV, i can programme it to turn off when the loft gets over a certain temp in summer but no option for a lower cut off in winter.
Considering adding a thermostat set around 8-10dC to stop losing too much heat in winter.
Is this a good idea? The worst RH in my house happens around spring and autumn anyway.
2-3 times ventilate house few minutes per day or/and buy dehudimifier. Heat revocery system also awesome but expensive
It's amazing to me that houses in UK have moisture problem during winter. We have the reverse - the air is too dry and we need to run humidifiers. Can anyone explain what's going on there? Is it because you keep +13 degrees inside?
Passivhaus ✅👍
Have always slept with the bedroom window open, keeps the bedroom fresh at night and CO2 level down, your wife is wise.
My wife is not wise, she married me.
She wouldn't do it where I live, bedroom at 8pm today was 9'c.
Humidity is 95% right now, that would be increasing indoor humidity? Not recommended for those with mould problems
@@dirtmcgirt168 It's about air movement, not humidity.
@@lksf9820 Air movement can help prevent the buildup of humidity by promoting the evaporation of moisture. Mould tends to thrive in environments with high humidity levels. The ideal relative humidity for mould growth is generally considered to be above 60%. When the air is humid, it provides the moisture necessary for mould spores to germinate and grow into colonies.
Dehumidifiers?
I've got old windows condensing all the time, I don't have a lot of sources of moisture exhaust fan on the range hood that vents outside, bathroom fan that vents outside we use these all the time. I have humidity sensors never see it above 50% humidity we still see the black mold on the walls. 1. I wouldn't recommend letting your home get too cold while your not home that will allow your inside surfaces to get cold and condensation will appear on them. 2. I'm beginning to think the air coming in through the old moldy rotten windows is a source of mold spores in the home causing the mold, so I'd like to get some air tight windows and replace any rotten wood. 3. I do think exhaust fans or EVR's are important I think you should think about the quality and source of your air an ensure its not collecting mold spores as its being piped in.
I would say your humidity sensor is wrong. Mold will only really grow in over 65% rh so If your at 50 it shouldn't be happening
I have had tenants dry clothing on radiators, and no ventilation. Tenants wouldn't open windows. Not to mention cooking, bodies, tumble drier, and a washing machine. Installed heat air extractor system. Still black mould. Tenants admitted they wouldn't turn on the extactors. They threatened to take me to court. I reminded them it's an Edwardian property. The surveyor and all damp specialists' recommendations fully implemented a damp course. Anti mould paint and extractor fan system installed. The problem is lifestyle. Thankfully I am no longer a landlord.
I have a 7 KW multi fuel stove & a combo boiler for hot water.
I find the car & truck tyres that I am paid to remove give off a excellent heat when cut into 8 X 8 chunks
Keep fishing the bait is tempting , somebody might bite 😉
i despise people that try to solely blame all landlords for mould. i new of a couple that would complain left right and centre about "rising damp" in a second floor flat, getting the council involved and every thing. well
The landlord just basically laughed at them saying, rising damp. in a second floor flat, when the first floor is completely dry. not a chance in hell. He said they needed to vent the flat. they refused, so in the end he installed all vented windows, all of the sudden, all the damp went. but when winter came about, the couple sealed all the vents, taping over them all. and just like before. the damp was back...
This silly idea that landlords are always to blame is nonsense. most damp cases i have seen, really are self induced. very few times has it ever been the fault of the building or landlord.
I've always found that the words mould and tenant are synonymous.
Drying their washing inside I bet?
In Germany it's law to open windows in rentals, the whole country is encouraged to do it for 1hr per day.
Often its the same landlords that think a bunch of electric radiators are a heating system, suit each other.
I like the idea of an electric combination boiler but unfortunately the running costs are way over gas boiler running costs
Air-to-air with humidity control sounds like it would solve some of the problems. Basically AC with a heat pump? Of course you need a domestic hot water supply method too but that's maybe less of an issue than dealing with damp.
AC is a heat pump, they just reverse the cycle to heat instead of cool. Hence reverse cycle or bi-valent. Worse COP than air to water though, so would need to do the maths, personally I find the noise of the fan on the inside unit irritating. Great for commercial settings though.
@@mktrollop1093I'm not sure the CoP is worse, in theory it should be better. The problem is the noise, drafts, nightmare retrofits, condensate removal challenges, servicing challenges, need to chuck the whole system away every 10 years when something breaks, the appearance of those cassettes in your home.
Dear Roger I think the video is more along the lines of damp solutions,perhaps you can get to the best heating systems in another vid!
Dry air needs less energy to warm up than moist air, so ventilating once or twice a day for a few minutes might actually lower your overall heating requirement...
Or remove moisture using dehumidifier for no heat loss, my one runs typically at @ 90W for 55% humidity excellent for indoor drying as well.
How about fully sealing and using dehumidifers?
To add to your comments about electricity supply, both for heat pumps and car charging. The vast majority of older houses will still have a 60-80A supply, where as in newer houses 100A is standard. It could be as simple as a bigger incoming fuse, that can only be done by the network operator for your area, not the company you pay for your energy. But you may also require a new consumer unit, and a complete re wire, thousands of pounds of additional costs. The problems could get worse if the additional power is not available, and a new sub station is required, we had a quote of £80,000 for a new sub station, which would not belong to us, that was for an overhead supply, likley in a built up area with underground cabling, far higher. Something that does not seem to be mentioned. By the way £80,000 is not that expensive, the 11KV supply was close by, there was the land available to install the substation. If there is no where to install the substation, in any built up area, more than likely, it may just not be possible to have an increase in power, again something that does not seem to be mentioned.
Gas heating makes sense.
Solar panels are cheap so maybe one could heat the hot water and run the washing machine on solar panels.
Even though Lithium Iron Batteries are expensive, they are coming down in price and could save on mains supplied electricity.
I am moving to Thailand and I am living off grid, water bore with 8 solar panels and batteries for all electric. I just buy a bottle of LPG for 420baht => £9.80 every other month for cooking. No council tax so I am living well on 30,000 baht => £700 per month.
1950s no insulation, badly fitting windows, one open fire, larder and bathroom windows open all year, laundry aired at night around the fireplace. No back mould. Elderly here, plenty of ventilation, just one small woodburner for 12 hours p.day, electric rad in bedroom on low. I hated working in an office which lacked fresh air.
Bixby sir, could you do a comparison of top 5 Air Source Heat pumps available in UK now - cost to buy, install, run, reliability, warranty, hot water ability etc. Thx
I wonder if you could put indoor plants where the mold is and the plants will drink up the moisture.
The plants would turn into human eating monsters if you did that...fact!
Ventilation and air circulation will prevent condensation.
Floor insulation. Can the crawl space be sealed/insulated and then hot air used to heat the floor and the rest of the house? Can exhausted used hot air recycled through air to air heat exchanger to make whole system more efficient?
What about dehumidifiers though? You can dehumidify you air without losing heat.
best thing ever
I use kitchen hood to extract moisture. it has flow 500 m^3 per hour and by my calculation 15 min is enough to replace whole air in house. Also i crack open window on other side of the house opposite side of kitchen, all other windows and door must be close.
My primary heating sistem is wood stove with cold air intake, which also create positive pressure inside of the house.
I live in a Residential Park Home .... we heat and cook on LPG from 47kg cylinders and our incoming electric supply is 30amps provided by the Park Owner Company on a contract with a total of 56 homes. I work mostly from home and will soon retire and be there more. There is no way any alternative is affordable, especially a heat pump.
Have you considered diesel burner/heater (looks like a wood burner) they often use them on live aboard boats..
@@Ocean-blue I have a wood-burning stove for additional heat ... surrounded by acres of woodland.
Have the extractor fans vent to the heat pump, you'd get some heat recovery :)
Any chance you can come up to Todmorden to advise on heating/venting a gas-heated 400-year old Yorkshire stone house with 18-inch thick walls? 😉
Thank you, Roger, for all your content and advice.
I've discovered you fairly recently - it really is a wonderful channel and I'm learning a lot 👍
Am nearby, in a similar build converted barn. For Stone walls I used Insulating plaster, 20mm with breathable paint, avoided modern materials, sealed all “edges” around windows, etc. as rubble filled walls can leak air through. Thorough draught-proofing, floors, service inlets (back of kitchen units can be airy!), the usual culprits. Trick is to keep those walls at least 14/15 degrees. If you Let them get colder, or damp, and it will feel cold for hours and take longer to warm up. Consider the walls your wrap around storage radiator. Invest in a spot thermometer gun, and a few simple thermometers with humidity gauges to help learn how it all works. Calderdale were looking at getting some thermal cameras for loan. There have been some retrofit events locally at Tod and HB these are interesting, educational and experts attend. Having gas is a bonus tbf.
So much easier maintaining a lower temperature something like 12-15c, cooler air less moisture.
Means heat doesn't plough out the trickle vents so fast, can't really do them being closed. Extractor fan come on as it needs too.
Thermal base layers and neck warmers, can always dress more layers if you match the sizes up on each other neatly, keep some gloves pre warmed in pockets. Thermos flask and vacuum thermal cup for hot drinks helps feel a whole warmer quickly if you've made a decent thermal envelop around you, plugged the gap properly keep the draft from around your waste, sleeve and neck ect.
Always more you can do to feel warmer before needing to turn heating up. You only need to maintain something like 12c really and that's a much smaller difference to the outside than like 18-20c so the heat behaves slower just for that reason, more time to take up as radiant heat, easier to lower flow temp ect.
Can see your logic, however that would be too cold for many and can bring with it health issues such as circulatory problems. General advice is to keep homes at or above 18c for comfort and wellbeing. Each to their own, not judging but there are downsides 👍🏻
@@Liverpool1ne Yeah you may need to consider with certain health issues and older age ect, however there's always such steps to reduce what temperatures required than otherwise would be.
A lot of people just dress in a t shirt all year, then it's just a massive shock every time they go outside and just put a big coat on which will mostly just prevent heat loss out your back mainly meaning you just loose heat elsewhere faster.
Poor air quality from reduced ventilation causes health issues also, I'm not sure circulatory issues would apply so easily if you are actually layered up well with everything connected up properly, maintaining a warm envelope around you with all the gaps filled around your waste, sleeves and neck ect, top of head. If you've got physical issues doing the extra dressing and undressing it can be an issue maybe. I think perhaps there is perhaps more of a knack to layering up properly than perhaps most people think... You need to have the right set of layers to work together in the first place and a few sets obviously.
Also there's a big difference between maintaining 12c radiant temperature and just raising the convective temperature to 12c now and again, sure that's not going to be comfortable on its own. The building itself, walls and furniture ect need to kept stable or its going to feel even colder and can perhaps start to cause structural issues even.
With fur lined Parka, ear muffs, ski gloves and furry boots it's like resurrection of the Cyber men...
I took them off when back room rose from 2.7C last week (-6C outside) but living room was toasty 23C.
@@_Dougaldog Well all that's going to start getting on the way of doing anything indoors isn't it.
I just find you get a set of those sporty elastic bass layers on then with some normal thermal long jons over them with a hat and neck warmer well, that actually makes a proper connected up warm envelop under a normal hoodie shirt and trousers id be wearing anyway.
@@ericritchie6783 Should I become a MAMIL I wonder, works for cyclists (Middle Aged Man In Lycra) ?
Slither along the solum like greased racing snake... 😉
I have a small dehumidifier in each room, but they began to freeze up as the outside got to about 0 degrees. I dont have the heat on at all, and my house is between 5 and 10 degrees. Instead I wear warm clothing and turn the fan heater on when I get in from work at 2200.
I have a question do you think im damaging the house long term or do you think I should do an extra days work to pay to have a minimum temperature eg 10 - 12 deg. Im only one person so there is only limited condensation, and im working 4 days getting in at 2230. Second question - if im not in does it matter if the house is cold as long as the pipes are above freezing?
Woodburner solves most issues