This is excellent. Previously I was installing a second line and using a frog walker set up for long ascents. Now I've been using this even for moderate ascents. It's quick and easy to set up and uses way less gear. My variations are a running bowline backed with a yosemite for canopy tie off. I also tend the HC pulley with my lanyard that I run over the back of my shoulder. This set up works great with foot and knee ascender. Specifically the Haas. It can even be repeated in the tree if you need to ascend back to your high point at any point during the climb.
Richard, very cool. I already have the DMM pulley and like to spike with a "safety" line on the saddle bridge connector. This is perfect, because I was thinking of getting a HitchHiker hybrid device but I think this will work just as well. Thanks, Todd
Hi Richard, thanks for the thinking. This subject is really, really, interesting. Got 3 points i think need to be known before using this kind of setup : - This can be safe or dangerous depending on wich rope is used, for the climbing rope and for the friction rope. It's a really big point because we don't have any data about what works or not with what. - The kind of friction hitch is also very important. - The Munter hitch is effective, but it makes the rope twisting and it can be bad for the rope if used too often. Maybe an appropriate 8 would be better.
Yes, some ropes are more some less susceptible to twisting. The 8 is much better than a munter as you point out. I certainly would not advocate this for normal everyday use. By the way, I'll be in Paris in a week or so, I'll send you a message on Face Book. I would enjoy getting together if we can.
Plus villages are gorgeous, walks are beautifull, pink wine is just perfect... it's one hour car trip from Marseille or Avignon, city of popes... you wont regret it, it's purely wonderfull.
Gelis Hugues sorry I'm going to miss you it sounds like a great time. Can you tell me where the oldest tree in Paris is somebody told me that it is cool to see.
Sorry for the delay Richard, it's been a long wedding party ^^ The oldest tree is in René-Viviani - Montebello's parc and is 400 years old. The Jardin des plantes is also a nice place to visit, with some nice trees around and nice expositions, and the Jardin du Luxembourg is a beautifull parc too. If you want to climb you can try in Fontainebleau's forest, you'll find lot of mature oaks and many other species. Maybe try around rock climbing spots, gards are more used there to be friendly with climbers.
Gelis Hugues good to hear from you thanks for the information. I'm just returning from Paris and I did go and visit the oldest tree. One day we still need to climb together in France ok
Thanks This should make ascending a little faster. But first I need to work on tying the munter. I have been using haas and foot acsender with hitch climber Drt. Thanks again.
Nice technique, I am impatient to try it, because I have only DdRT gear. Can I have some questions: What is the carabiner in the alpine butterfly? Steel delta maillon? Does the type of carabiner matter? Can the loop on alpine butterfly be used directly without carabiner? The rappeling device (munter, figure 8) is attached to the ring on your leg? If so, is it ok to be hung "asymetrically"? Thanks for reply
Roman Daniel Hi Daniel, it is a pear-shaped Maillon, and yes you can do this without it, just the Alpine butterfly. The munter or figure eight is simply additional friction and works well from the side day, your life support and other friction is centrally located. If you can find a spot that is more centrally located for that additional friction that doesn't cause problems with binding or complication, that would be good too.
So you can't use the prussic to descend on SRT? Instead of the munter or figure 8 couldn't you just wrap around you main biner? Thanks for the helpful videos!!
Rudy Chavira and by frog Walker I mean the type of system we're on one foot you're using a foot Loop and tether and tending your climbing device by your hand. the foot Loop is collect connected to your climbing device and on the other foot you have a foot ascender ascender. Not a totally hands-free system but it works.
Rudy Chavira if using a saw make sure you are always secured with your lanyard on the side or on a suspension point of your saddle, separate from your life support climbing line
I have used this system for over 10years and there are a couple of things I do different. I used an eight directly on my bridge, using one of the holes for the bridge and hitch climber and the other larger one as a rack. The rack stops the twists. Second I dont use a karabiner to lock off at the top, I dont feel it is loaded correctly. 😊
@@RichardMumford1 another thing I do is tie the tails of my rope together instead of using the throw line. Then I dont have to fish the throwline out of the branches. Once I am up I just let the tail down. It was nice to see someone else do this method. I love srt for up but prefer working drt. Compliments on an excerlant presentation.
Yes, it absolutely is. I remember the first time I wanted to try SRT, I didn't realize you needed added friction. I think I was on a VT or maybe just an english prussic.. I went to descend and it SCREAMED at me. I've never heard ROPE make that sound before. It got stuck after a couple feet then I took off my micropulley, clipped it above my prussic, and reefed on it.. it let me down, screaming the entire time.. I was an idiot haha
Great technique but for demo purposes it would be better communicated if it were recorded from a lateral point at 90° from your helmet cam point of view, to demo the set up. The helmet cam is a great idea don't get me wrong, it's vantage point is great for viewing practical positioning, ideal and easily accessible placement when stowing gear, also its retrieval and application. To demo the physical movement and climbers alignment or positioning, I think everyone would agree that third person side view camera angle would be most effective for objective observation.
i am by no means experienced so forgive me for asking, when using this system for ascending your not protected by the climbing rope in case of a fall right? your friction knot and pully are your main support it seams. im a big man at 6'2" 230lbs i worry about trusting an 8mm rope in a fall situation. what do you think?
Keep it tended well and you should be fine.. I wouldn’t use this method without a Ropeman or hand ascender under my hitch instead of the climber Pulley but it adds a lot Of rope drag
i saw a video testing 8mm rope friction knots, 250lb drop at 6ft and it snapped the anchor knot. i dont see how i could fall 6ft in this configuration but to be cautious i bought an ascender and anchored my harness to that using 11mm rope and use a foot loop and friction knot. it is working very well and i feel much safer
i dont think id ever be in a situation for fall more than 4 feet, like when i do a pull-up onto the branch i ascended to instead of lanyarding up. I mean ive never fallen at all so far but ive slipped and swung around a little. it would be very hard to take a straight fall climbing a tree wouldnt it?I would think that you always going to fall at some kind of angle spreading out the impact, plus there is the initial slippage of the hitch. WHat im saying is i think 8 mm cord is fine I even has a "pruning kit" put together with 9mm climb line and 6 mm prusik cord that if feel fine using for 15-20 jobs before replacing the ropes
I always thought that as long as you can tie a munter you don't need a figure 8. One thing is I thought to only use an hms biner for that, but your oval biner looked good
I thought that too and that's what I did up until a couple weeks ago.. then I thought, what the heck, the figure eight is sitting there anyways, might as well use it. Then I realized how much smoother the figure 8 is. But I'll still use the munter in a pinch
@@kivaswander5537 Yeah for sure, no harm buying one, just good to know that there are ways to make a biner do the job if necessary. The video is kinda on that theme of making do with what you have on hand. Maybe someone else reads this and has an epiphany, lol.
Great video, going to be modifying my SRT setup to try this out later this week. One note though - my former crew leader used a neck tether, and even though nothing should ever go wrong with that, I have a limited imagination and simply know that having something around your neck up in a tree with these rope systems is not a good idea. Find another way to do it.
imho this is too dangerous, especially for someone trying to learn who doesnt have a full working knowledge of the system youre substituting for. im inventive with my systems too and i think your work is very crafty! just make sure people know this is for demonstration and def not instructional
Although this would not be my preferred system and serves as an example of the transition from SRT to DdRT, WHAT PART WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE AS "DANGEROUS"?
Richard Mumford If u hit the prussic on a single line with nothing to make a little friction eg munters hitch or rope wrench you wont be able to catch your fall. a secondary attachment in case of emergency (say you hook up or load your munters hitch incorrectly, accidentally depress the prussic, etc) would be a good backup to prevent a big fall
+Jesus Chil OK, I understand your concern. It is an age old argument for tree work, second connection. What you mention also applies to the Rope Runner, Hitch Hiker, Unicender, Bull Dog Bone, and most SRT ascent tools used today.
Richard Mumford nope. Rope Runner, Hitch Hiker, Unicender, Bull Dog Bone, and most SRT ascent tools used today put a bite or 2 in your line so you dont eat dirt. im not knocking your idea, but youre mistaken if you think thats comparable. im interested in your ingenuity. def not knocking your idea, just suggesting discretion before someone who doesnt know learns the hard way
+Jesus Chil sorry I have to disagree, if one part of those devices fail you will, as you say, "go to the dirt", quickly. The only part of the Rope Wrench that IS life support is the hitch, same hitch used in this example. Thanks for the input, thoughts and discussion.
Sooo many steps, risks and 'procedures' [knots, placement & types of connectors, ...] not explained or even mentioned. This is NOT for anyone without a WORKING KNOWLEDGE of DDRT/MRS gear & climbing !
+John Ullrey F8 or similar would always be better than a Munter but then I would have to change the title from "Single Rope Technique with nothing more than Double Rope tools." ;-)
i keep an 8 on my saddle all the time and i mostly climb ddrt. before going for a long fast descent i put the eight under the prusick because i like knowing i'm not burning it. I've done fast descents on a taut line hitch where i could smell the rope burning on the way down, and after a couple times doing that the rope grabbed to hard or would be too loose to hold; very annoying having to fight my rope while climbing.
I like the hydro/rook pulley a lot, having it on my bridge is perfect for me. I have seen it used on a lanyard like the CElanyard configuration but don't see an advantage there and if anything a waste of money to tend a hitch on a lanyard.
thank you for this video i was just trying to figure it out how to use my Ddrt system to do a rope walking like SRT, great info on your videos
This is excellent. Previously I was installing a second line and using a frog walker set up for long ascents. Now I've been using this even for moderate ascents. It's quick and easy to set up and uses way less gear. My variations are a running bowline backed with a yosemite for canopy tie off. I also tend the HC pulley with my lanyard that I run over the back of my shoulder. This set up works great with foot and knee ascender. Specifically the Haas. It can even be repeated in the tree if you need to ascend back to your high point at any point during the climb.
Ah Thanks Richard, Now I get what you were telling me over the phone!
Love it!
Thanks. Your videos are great!🤙
I LOVE this setup in ddrt
Richard, very cool. I already have the DMM pulley and like to spike with a "safety" line on the saddle bridge connector. This is perfect, because I was thinking of getting a HitchHiker hybrid device but I think this will work just as well. Thanks, Todd
Hi Richard, thanks for the thinking. This subject is really, really, interesting.
Got 3 points i think need to be known before using this kind of setup :
- This can be safe or dangerous depending on wich rope is used, for the climbing rope and for the friction rope. It's a really big point because we don't have any data about what works or not with what.
- The kind of friction hitch is also very important.
- The Munter hitch is effective, but it makes the rope twisting and it can be bad for the rope if used too often. Maybe an appropriate 8 would be better.
Yes, some ropes are more some less susceptible to twisting. The 8 is much better than a munter as you point out. I certainly would not advocate this for normal everyday use. By the way, I'll be in Paris in a week or so, I'll send you a message on Face Book. I would enjoy getting together if we can.
Plus villages are gorgeous, walks are beautifull, pink wine is just perfect... it's one hour car trip from Marseille or Avignon, city of popes... you wont regret it, it's purely wonderfull.
Gelis Hugues sorry I'm going to miss you it sounds like a great time. Can you tell me where the oldest tree in Paris is somebody told me that it is cool to see.
Sorry for the delay Richard, it's been a long wedding party ^^
The oldest tree is in René-Viviani - Montebello's parc and is 400 years old.
The Jardin des plantes is also a nice place to visit, with some nice trees around and nice expositions, and the Jardin du Luxembourg is a beautifull parc too.
If you want to climb you can try in Fontainebleau's forest, you'll find lot of mature oaks and many other species. Maybe try around rock climbing spots, gards are more used there to be friendly with climbers.
Gelis Hugues good to hear from you thanks for the information. I'm just returning from Paris and I did go and visit the oldest tree. One day we still need to climb together in France ok
Thanks This should make ascending a little faster. But first I need to work on tying the munter. I have been using haas and foot acsender with hitch climber Drt. Thanks again.
What is the name of the triple connection hardware you have on your bridge? Great video, great technique!
I think you are referring to the rigging paw that comes with the harness. New Tribe Onyx, no longer available
@@RichardMumford1 thanks for the response. Too bad it is discontinued!
Nice technique, I am impatient to try it, because I have only DdRT gear. Can I have some questions:
What is the carabiner in the alpine butterfly? Steel delta maillon? Does the type of carabiner matter? Can the loop on alpine butterfly be used directly without carabiner?
The rappeling device (munter, figure 8) is attached to the ring on your leg? If so, is it ok to be hung "asymetrically"?
Thanks for reply
Roman Daniel Hi Daniel, it is a pear-shaped Maillon, and yes you can do this without it, just the Alpine butterfly. The munter or figure eight is simply additional friction and works well from the side day, your life support and other friction is centrally located. If you can find a spot that is more centrally located for that additional friction that doesn't cause problems with binding or complication, that would be good too.
Roman Daniel also, if you're actually planning on making the descent with a munter there are better carabiners that are designed for that.
So you can't use the prussic to descend on SRT? Instead of the munter or figure 8 couldn't you just wrap around you main biner? Thanks for the helpful videos!!
1cleandude that might get a little cluttered the point being that you need extra friction in order to come down SRT on a friction hitch
Very interesting. Always like to see your innovations. Just curious...What kind of camera setup do you use in the trees?
Various cameras but mostly the GoPros or any type of way sport camera like that.
How do you like the rock exotica hydro pulley sir? Do you find it bulky?
Excellent video.
Richard nice video I'm a newbee and like the less gear method, hey do I need a chest harness for this.
Rudy Chavira no you would not when it is used in this kind of a frog Walker system.
Rudy Chavira and by frog Walker I mean the type of system we're on one foot you're using a foot Loop and tether and tending your climbing device by your hand. the foot Loop is collect connected to your climbing device and on the other foot you have a foot ascender ascender. Not a totally hands-free system but it works.
Richard that carabineer you put through triple hitch and prussic, can I also attatch knee strap and attatch to harness?
Rudy Chavira I'm not sure I really understand your question sorry.
Richard thanks for fast reply one more question for any kind of pruning, cutting etc is this method safe as I would like to stay with this method.
Rudy Chavira if using a saw make sure you are always secured with your lanyard on the side or on a suspension point of your saddle, separate from your life support climbing line
Rudy Chavira it is safe and one of many ways to ascend a tree on a rope
Richard Mumford thank you Richard, I will always have a two point tie in. Great understandable video.
I have used this system for over 10years and there are a couple of things I do different. I used an eight directly on my bridge, using one of the holes for the bridge and hitch climber and the other larger one as a rack. The rack stops the twists. Second I dont use a karabiner to lock off at the top, I dont feel it is loaded correctly. 😊
Thanks, yes, at the top that is a screw link as a carabiner would not be loaded correctly there.
@@RichardMumford1 another thing I do is tie the tails of my rope together instead of using the throw line. Then I dont have to fish the throwline out of the branches. Once I am up I just let the tail down. It was nice to see someone else do this method. I love srt for up but prefer working drt. Compliments on an excerlant presentation.
What if you throw an ATC guide in there for the decent?
cool device
I really like your setup here its simple and does the job well at that.
Is it neceserry to use that munter?
yes, a hitch alone SRT will lock or burn.
Yes, it absolutely is. I remember the first time I wanted to try SRT, I didn't realize you needed added friction. I think I was on a VT or maybe just an english prussic.. I went to descend and it SCREAMED at me. I've never heard ROPE make that sound before. It got stuck after a couple feet then I took off my micropulley, clipped it above my prussic, and reefed on it.. it let me down, screaming the entire time.. I was an idiot haha
Trust me it do get hot without the munter!! Very hot!! Ouch!
I climb with a very similar setup but I descend with a figure 8
Great technique but for demo purposes it would be better communicated if it were recorded from a lateral point at 90° from your helmet cam point of view, to demo the set up. The helmet cam is a great idea don't get me wrong, it's vantage point is great for viewing practical positioning, ideal and easily accessible placement when stowing gear, also its retrieval and application. To demo the physical movement and climbers alignment or positioning, I think everyone would agree that third person side view camera angle would be most effective for objective observation.
tom conner wish I had a camera crew😀
Saving kids money.
i am by no means experienced so forgive me for asking, when using this system for ascending your not protected by the climbing rope in case of a fall right? your friction knot and pully are your main support it seams. im a big man at 6'2" 230lbs i worry about trusting an 8mm rope in a fall situation. what do you think?
You are protected. It's a doubled rope too.
@@RichardMumford1 ahhh i see what you mean now.
Keep it tended well and you should be fine.. I wouldn’t use this method without a
Ropeman or hand ascender under my hitch instead of the climber
Pulley but it adds a lot
Of rope drag
i saw a video testing 8mm rope friction knots, 250lb drop at 6ft and it snapped the anchor knot.
i dont see how i could fall 6ft in this configuration but to be cautious i bought an ascender and anchored my harness to that using 11mm rope and use a foot loop and friction knot. it is working very well and i feel much safer
i dont think id ever be in a situation for fall more than 4 feet, like when i do a pull-up onto the branch i ascended to instead of lanyarding up. I mean ive never fallen at all so far but ive slipped and swung around a little. it would be very hard to take a straight fall climbing a tree wouldnt it?I would think that you always going to fall at some kind of angle spreading out the impact, plus there is the initial slippage of the hitch. WHat im saying is i think 8 mm cord is fine I even has a "pruning kit" put together with 9mm climb line and 6 mm prusik cord that if feel fine using for 15-20 jobs before replacing the ropes
I always thought that as long as you can tie a munter you don't need a figure 8. One thing is I thought to only use an hms biner for that, but your oval biner looked good
I thought that too and that's what I did up until a couple weeks ago.. then I thought, what the heck, the figure eight is sitting there anyways, might as well use it. Then I realized how much smoother the figure 8 is. But I'll still use the munter in a pinch
It can be dangerous because you are limited to about 1/4th the available friction the 8 offers
@@kivaswander5537 The Super Munter is great to increase friction, and it has the advantage of not twisting the rope like the regular Munter does.
Keith Klassen I’ll check it out but I mean a descender is 15$
@@kivaswander5537 Yeah for sure, no harm buying one, just good to know that there are ways to make a biner do the job if necessary. The video is kinda on that theme of making do with what you have on hand. Maybe someone else reads this and has an epiphany, lol.
Great video, going to be modifying my SRT setup to try this out later this week. One note though - my former crew leader used a neck tether, and even though nothing should ever go wrong with that, I have a limited imagination and simply know that having something around your neck up in a tree with these rope systems is not a good idea. Find another way to do it.
yer ok" nice watch those screw beeners tho"
Thanks I did that many years ago, that's actually not a screw gate carabiner, but an oval quicklink.
imho this is too dangerous, especially for someone trying to learn who doesnt have a full working knowledge of the system youre substituting for. im inventive with my systems too and i think your work is very crafty! just make sure people know this is for demonstration and def not instructional
Although this would not be my preferred system and serves as an example of the transition from SRT to DdRT, WHAT PART WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE AS "DANGEROUS"?
Richard Mumford If u hit the prussic on a single line with nothing to make a little friction eg munters hitch or rope wrench you wont be able to catch your fall. a secondary attachment in case of emergency (say you hook up or load your munters hitch incorrectly, accidentally depress the prussic, etc) would be a good backup to prevent a big fall
+Jesus Chil OK, I understand your concern. It is an age old argument for tree work, second connection. What you mention also applies to the Rope Runner, Hitch Hiker, Unicender, Bull Dog Bone, and most SRT ascent tools used today.
Richard Mumford nope. Rope Runner, Hitch Hiker, Unicender, Bull Dog Bone, and most SRT ascent tools used today put a bite or 2 in your line so you dont eat dirt. im not knocking your idea, but youre mistaken if you think thats comparable. im interested in your ingenuity. def not knocking your idea, just suggesting discretion before someone who doesnt know learns the hard way
+Jesus Chil sorry I have to disagree, if one part of those devices fail you will, as you say, "go to the dirt", quickly. The only part of the Rope Wrench that IS life support is the hitch, same hitch used in this example.
Thanks for the input, thoughts and discussion.
Sooo many steps, risks and 'procedures' [knots, placement & types of connectors, ...] not explained or even mentioned. This is NOT for anyone without a WORKING KNOWLEDGE of DDRT/MRS gear & climbing !
@@tr33m00nk Thank you for that TH-cam.Videos are not vetted or filter for any particular user.
How about using something like this instead of the munter? r.ebay.com/XCDA9C
+John Ullrey F8 or similar would always be better than a Munter but then I would have to change the title from "Single Rope Technique with nothing more than Double Rope tools." ;-)
i keep an 8 on my saddle all the time and i mostly climb ddrt. before going for a long fast descent i put the eight under the prusick because i like knowing i'm not burning it. I've done fast descents on a taut line hitch where i could smell the rope burning on the way down, and after a couple times doing that the rope grabbed to hard or would be too loose to hold; very annoying having to fight my rope while climbing.
its not chip to setup a HITCH CLIMBER PULLEY
NO
BUT HELPS...
How do you like the rock exotica hydro pulley sir? Do you find it bulky?
I like the hydro/rook pulley a lot, having it on my bridge is perfect for me. I have seen it used on a lanyard like the CElanyard configuration but don't see an advantage there and if anything a waste of money to tend a hitch on a lanyard.