The whole brush nylon, bronze etc damaging a bore always makes me laugh. Like you said monolithic copper solids and FMJ at huge pressure and temps are fine so abit of elbow grease or drill in this case isn't doing anything.
I did the exact same thing...6 Dasher and after about 40-50 firings I started to get heavy bolt lift. Carbon ring. Took an old aluminum cleaning rod, marked it like you did, Hoppes on nylon brush with a cordless drill and just like that no more pressure issues. I clean my gun after every match and no incorporate this after my normal barrel cleaning process. works like a charm
You get split rods. I bought one of them, and always use the short back end to clean my chamber. If you use one of the front ones, you don't have to smash anything. It is also shorter, so no wobble! They usually split in 3. Terrible to use as intended, but works great for cleaning out your chamber
My .308 went from 2825ft/sec on 42.5gr of S335 behind a 155gr bullet to 3000ft/sec on the same load. I remembered this video. I tried this cleaning method tonight and based on what I saw on the bristles I had a nasty carbon ring. I will go and validate speed on my pet load again on the weekend.
I just wanted to thank you for the idea of using a drill to clean the rifle barrel. The thought of using that technique would have never entered my mind. I tried it and it works. Now I am going to the range and validate my squeaky clean barrel. Thanks again.
This is very helpful and I seriously doubt that a nylon brush will damage the rifle considering all the other stresses and strains a rifle is subjected to.
.223 Chamber brashes are fantastic for removing carbon rings, paired with a pistol cleaning rod chucked into a drill. You can also use your standard 25 caliber brush on your 6mm barrel, throw some JB bore cleaner paste on there and it will pull it out without having to go too far if you haven't let it get too bad.
Absolute life saver! I had pressure isues with my 6.5 lapua out of nowhere i couldn't eject the cases. Had to pound the cases out of the chamber from the muzzle end with a cleaning rod. The case bodies were massively swollen. Just checked and yup i have a carbon ring!
Good info Piet. That was amazing how loose the primer pockets got, wow. I don't know if you have CLR available there in SA, but CLR (Calcium, Lime, Rust) works pretty good on carbon. Erik Cortina uses it and because of him I have given it a try as well. Just be extra careful if you're working on a blued gun, since bluing is rust.
@@Halfmilesniper really highlighting the DO NOT USE on blued metal. i (intentionally) used it on an old muzzle brake, and it works well to remove the black colour from the metal turning it a light gray which then immediately started to rust. but the carbon was gone from it!
Fastest way to get the carbon / carbon ring out is: clean the barrel to "spotless clean" then put it into a freezer. After a few hours, take out the barrel and pour boiling water down the bore. The thermal shock cracks the otherwise unbreakable carbon and if you put a bucket at the bottom, you will see a whole bunch of carbon particles in the water , job done. A trick from an old timer full bore target rifle shooter in Australia :)
Thank you ! I did the same on my 6mm CM a few months ago and people told me I was crazy. Carbon fibre rod with nylon brush only pushed in far enough to get the ring. I didnt see how I could destroy the barrel....and surprise, I didnt. Its shoots great again !
I have a 17 Remington gas gun, which shoots lights out, amazingly even with mixed brass, but my brass is sized down shoulder, bumped 223/5.56 brass.. and it gives me a short case that definitely will develop carbon ring same as your situation. Thank you for this insight.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say that I don't think the carbon you showed in the borescope video was the main culprit. I'll explain... I have bore scoped many a dirty Dasher chamber and I have seen worse that were causing no trouble. Carbon that does cause trouble is almost always in the freebore area and not in the end of the neck. The freebore area is usually cut only .0005" larger in diameter than the bullet and it takes very little carbon buildup to cause issues in this area because of that. Carbon in the freebore area can cause the same higher pressure as commonly seen by bullets jammed into the lands. Carbon in the end of the neck area that you highlighted in the video can build up to about .015" thick radially without impending on the bullet space and so I believe it highly unlikely that the carbon in that area was causing a problem. I say this coming from the experience of personally wearing out approximately 12 Dasher barrels in the last 4 years. I also ruined some brass from over pressure in that time. In my experience carbon buildup usually only causes an extreme overpressure issue if the load is already running at max pressure or beyond. My guess is the carbon exacerbated a pre-existing hot load condition. Also, brass often shows more pressure signs with a hot load on the 3rd or 4th firing when the same load didn't show pressure on the 1st or second firing. I could also tell in your bore scope video that your freebore on that 6 Dasher chamber is very short. I'd estimate something like .050". Most PRS shooters in the USA are using a freebore between .135" and .180". Longer freebores result in lower pressure with a given powder load so I would expect you to hit pressure faster with your chamber. Small neck diameters on Dasher chambers also cause pressure problems sometimes. I'd recommend at least a .274" neck diameter unless you are neck turning. In short, I don't know what your load is, but if you are running a 109 Hybrid faster than 2,900 FPS in a 6 Dasher with a barrel 26 inches long or shorter you are running it too hot and are asking for trouble. Do yourself a favor and slow it down to about 2,850 FPS and life will be great. I trim my brass super short so I don't have to trim as often. Good luck!
When I see an effeminate dude chucking a cleaning brush in a drill …I certainly wonder what other stupidity he is employing….primer pockets that loose are signs of powder overloading.
As an experienced F class shooter, I have to make some comments here, for the accuracy sake. Firstly, carbon ring is not a result of trimming cases too far back, it has little to do with it. It is a normal process of carbon adhering to surface at the point of discharge. You cannot stop it or minimize it, you can only push it forward or backward. Make sure your bore always has a little bit of graphite inside, bores do not like dry first shot at all. This is where most of the carbon gets deposited. There are no issues using the power drill to get rid of the carbon ring, just don't do this to the rest of the barrel. Not because you will damage anything, you won't. You don't want to over polish the bore, for a variety of reasons. Instead of breaking perfectly good cleaning rod, just use old 3 peace rod that you likely have in the kit. Lastly, forget the nylon brush. Use bronze brush. Patch with CLR first and hit it with abrasive compound before resorting to drill. You will not damage your barrel with bronze brush, that is an absolute horseradish, I cannot believe people still believe that stuff. Happy cleaning.
I get that problem with shooting black powder, where the bullet is seated on the powder, and makes the last inch of seating the bullet a real pain! Seeing my rifle is a modern one with a removable breach plug, it is easy to see and work on removing the carbon ring when cleaning. But it is a real drag when you are working on trying different loads to see how new components are performing!
@@Blair338RUM Thank goodness it isn't ss surgical. Surgical ss is a very low carbon, inexpensive very poor quality ss that is only made to stop rusting in an alcove. Barrel steel is much harder and of much higher quality. Helpful advice, never-ever buy a knife marked surgical SS. It is the poorest quality you can buy. Period! Now near enough carbon content to ever hold an edge at all. It is the same ss used to make low buck pots and pans. KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+years in the Craft
Recently done the same thing. Use one of those take down Cleaning ronds. Worked beautifully. Now every clean is electricfied. No more scrubbing up and down manually. 5min and barrel is clean as from the factory
Dealt with this about 6 months ago.. velocity started getting crazy high in my 6.5 creedmoor load out of nowhere and started to get pressure signs. Did some research and found out about the carbon rings and looked in my chamber with my borescope and sure enough I had the dreaded carbon ring. Velocity went up close to 100fps.. cleaned the carbon ring and all was back to normal.
Super job! I'm doing the CLR very judiciously, but still having to work the cleaning rod by hand, so your method is really the route I will go to save time and effort. Thanks a bunch!
Did you see "winning in the wind" channel? He does a CLR test on stainless and it etches it pretty bad. Lots of the Black that comes out is actually stainless...
@@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD Yes, I saw his video on CLR, but it took him well over 24 hours of soaking to 'prove' that CLR is bad. I suspect if you leave Barnes CR-10 in a barrel that long, it could do damage as well. I've never left CLR in my barrel for more than 15 minutes and haven't detected anything but improved accuracy and easier removal of hard carbon, but people should do what they think is best and respect the rights of others to do likewise.
@@johnoltrogge6333 I use it, just wanted others to be aware not to believe everything they see on TH-cam. I use CLR for many things, cleaning brass, copper, etc.
Along with the use of brushes to clean chamber and bores, I have used a military stand by….BRASSO. Introduced to me over forty years ago while in the Marine Corp. this little trick helped me shoot expert and get a trophy for high shooter at rifle camp. Keep in mind though, thorough cleaning is a must after using the Brasso ,with solvent bore cleaner. FYI.
Just one little point to add, when your primers fall out like that, your load is way to close or even above maximum pressure. The carbon built-up increases the pressure of course but should not increase it to the level, that primer pockets widen and shells are deformed that much! During the barrel production process there are always tighter barrels at the end of mandrel tool lives ( before they change over to new ones) in the lot. I have one of these tighter barrels in 7 mm (.284). It still meets the tolerances but listed maximum loads of many manuals are definitely above the pressure limits for that particular barrel.
I get carbon rings on .308 barrels with factory ammo. Stainless steel match barrels seem to attract it worst, even though the rest of the stainless barrel is easier to clean. Scrubbing out the ring by hand with a nylon brush every time seems to prevent it from getting out of hand. Same with .22LR. My stainless match .22LR starts getting a ring after 50 rounds. The regular CZ 457 hardly gets rings at all.
I use a drill on mine quite often for a deep clean . Never found any issues I do use it on shotguns as same there you get the chamber where the cartridge opens get full of carbon and over time it builds up. Good video keep the good content coming.
Really helpful video and I also use a cordless with a Tipton rod that I threaded in a lathe an inserted a cap screw in the back that uses a 5 mm allen key, so no destroyed rod.
Pete, looks like life is treating you good. It's been a while since I've come on your channel. Mike here from Washington state, USA. I see the family is growing, kudos to you. Would you be thinking about a future trip back to the states for prs match show down?.......As to the carbon ring. Just fairly new to the reloading game but mindset says, this will become an issue sooner than later. Speaking for myself, I tend to over clean but have yet to purchase a bore scope. On the list I assure you. Liked that you brought about the mockup firing and subsequent chambering of the empty casing to give us the feel for how it all comes together. I've seen the honing by a few others and it appears to be fairly simple in it's adaption to rid the area of that ring. Take care.
Thank you very much. Good info. Had the same problem a while ago with increase in speed. We tend to second guess the load. Very nice graphical depiction on fired round.
CLR stands for calcium, lime, rust. It MAY do the job but if you want a product DESIGNED to remove carbon use EASY OFF oven cleaner and spin a bore brush on a drill. Best thing since sliced bread.
@@gjprieur7744 agree. Best thing I've found to flush the bore is one of those pump up plant sprayers with a clear flexible poly hose. Tilt bore down and flush away to your hearts content. Followed by a few dry patches and if done mop it with RED's
CLR, if I do a good clean I remove it from chassis, two screws, plug the muzzle with something, generally tie a rubber balloon etc. and fill with CLR while holding it vertically all the way to the top, give it 10min then drain and patch out, leaves it spotless every time just don't let CLR get to your trigger etc. As long as you remove all CLR after its all good
I've also had this issue and fortunately was able to diagnose before serious over pressure. I was on alert for it due to the powder I was using. It has a reputation for being 'dirty' curious as to what powder you were shooting for this load?
Hey dude, so this video made me get a bores scope, and interestingly enough I didn't see the carbon ring, only about 70rounds down my Creedmoor, but seeing some other stuff. Have you thought of giving us a platform to contact you with questions which may end up helping others? A blog, or forum?
I am using the 225 in my .338 win mag. The rifle has alot of freebore so seating depth isn't an issue. Just working out the powder. Good results so far.
They actually make a product that dissolves carbon deposits in seconds. It is made for cleaning carbon off of valves and valve seats inside of gasoline engines. Contact a Snap-On tool dealer and they should be able to sell you this product.
Trim that cleaning rod down so the front of the drill does not quite reach the action. Will take that wobble out. Or get a 2 piece pistol rod, works great. Thanks for the vid! Keep it up.
Is it just me or do I see small cracks in your free bore area? Basicly between were the extra short case necks would end and the carbon ring was building up. Is this normal? Even so, the gun is certainly shooting straight. Love the content. Keep it up.
This is common with barrels. They are small enough that they are hard to see when just looking down the barrel, but show up once a camera is used. It is caused by the heat and pressure. If this was a gas operated semi-auto barrel(AR-15, AR-10, etc) you would see them in the throat area as well as around the gas port.
It's not the nylon brush, it's the tiny bits of diamond hard carbon that come loose, and are now whizzing sideways across your lands at 3,000 rpm with the nylon brush. I was told by more than one gunsmith, if you are really fouled up, run that drill at about 200 rpm and once you have it clean, keep it clean. They first recommend just keeping it clean to start with. A lot of guys are using CLR for 10 mins and flush with alcohol after brushing. Stainless steel barrels only with the CLR
Question… probably killing a dead horse here but please tell us why you would clean the carbon ring from the muzzle end and not from the breech end. I would think it’s easier and safer to clean from the breech with a rod guide than risk damaging your riflings cleaning from the muzzle… but please tell us the advantage or pro . Thanks!
you are exactly correct ! When you clean from the muzzle end , you push all the grit and crap down into the breech or chamber ! Most do it at the wrong end !
Instead of breaking the handle from a cleaning rod just use those cheap rods from cleaning kits. Add some thread locker in between the links let it set. Then add your nylon/ brass brush and power tool away the carbon. Don't use any steel brushes or any brush made of a harder material than your barrel.
Carbon ring is not about pressure. When it gets to that stage it has already stuffed you around with bad accuracy for a while. Getting on top of carbon ring is a good recipe for accuracy, just don't let it build up
This is a very timely video. I’m currently trying to find the safest way to remove the carbon ring from my rifle. There’s not a lot of good videos on the subject.
Lou Murdica spoke this and stated the carbon ring can cause a spike up to 10k psi. That's pretty bad. I've used the drill method to remove carbon rings, and even used it on my barrel, didn't cause a single bit of damage and no decease in accuracy, Kept my 0.75 MOA 10-shot group at 1k yards out of my 6GT and my 0.55 MOA in the 6 Creed. I've known several guys that use a drill to get out tough carbon and a couple of em use use bronze brushes. I tried bronze and it had no impact on accuracy either, I just dont like paying for bronze brushes when nylon is so much cheaper.
If you use a product like CLR or what I use Seaclean 2 it removes carbon effortlessly, 7 wet patches completely cleaned the bore and a 30sec scrub with a nylon brush and the carbon ring was gone. Neutralise with Cleaning alcohol, and oil to finish and protect 👌
No it won’t, not if it’s properly neutralised. I also inspect by barrels on a regular basis and they are perfect 👌 Just to be clear the CLR is once in a blue moon use not a regular use cleaning product.
I know many mentioned it CLR but but only on stainless plus clean it after everytime you shoot it i know its a pain but put in some music and make the best of it
Did you use the standard bore diameter brush to do this? I have Iosso brushes as well, are the bristles long enough to effectively clean that area or do you need to use a size up?
If a bronze phosphorus brush damages a barrel then the barrel is junk. The fact that the myth that these brushes are bad for a modern barrel keeps in play is so mind boggling. Back and forth or on a drill up and down the entire length of the barre at high speed just won't harm a barrel.
And the internet is going to freak out over the use of power tools. A very prominent bench rest shooter does this and sent his barrels back to the manufacturer for inspection and zero damage. he doesn't have the time nor the shoulder strength to deal with cleaning barrels conventionally.
I have been doing this for a few years with my AR 15s. The chambers and lugs are a pain in the but to clean but give it 1 to 2 seconds with a chamber brush on a drill and they look brand new.
I never let my barrels get pass 20-30 rounds I’ve cut my 5 shot groups to 3-4 depending then clean at the range soak it up travel let soak overnight then clean and oil My only issues is w the 22-250 1:14 twist I don’t let it get that dirty after 20 groups open one hole on a ppalma cut to 23”
Appreciate your vid’s new to this hobby/sport. In regards to MDT and showing my support I wish I could but they are always sold out but with good reason I guess. Cheers.
Nice video Piet, again. Question: Except for the bolt maybe closing tightly to use as indicator is there any other signs ea. something on the brass to indicate a carbon ring is building? (Don't know if someone already asked this, too lazy to look for it😉)
I'm working on figuring out how much to trim my brass on my competition 6 CM... It's all been once fired and seems to have a decent amount of difference from factory in overal length. I do have a borescope, question is after watching this video, do I literally try to make the gap as small as possible? My brass all seems to be shorter than SAAMI trim length. Any help is appreciated.
Trim as long as you want. But make sure you always trim at exact same length. Problem is not to have a carbon ring. It’s to chamber a round trimmed longer, sitting ON the carbon ring. It then kinda reduce the chamber neck diameter, then may force a bigger neck tension. If you always trim the same, you can build a quite thick carbon ring and it has no effect on pressure or accuracy.
......what ????.....at around 6:19 - "pinches on the neck of the bullet??....wtf??....please explain, ..... do you mean - pinch on the ogive of bullet ??...... or pinch on the mouth of the neck of the case ??.....this could confuse newbies......
The whole brush nylon, bronze etc damaging a bore always makes me laugh. Like you said monolithic copper solids and FMJ at huge pressure and temps are fine so abit of elbow grease or drill in this case isn't doing anything.
I did the exact same thing...6 Dasher and after about 40-50 firings I started to get heavy bolt lift. Carbon ring. Took an old aluminum cleaning rod, marked it like you did, Hoppes on nylon brush with a cordless drill and just like that no more pressure issues. I clean my gun after every match and no incorporate this after my normal barrel cleaning process. works like a charm
You get split rods. I bought one of them, and always use the short back end to clean my chamber. If you use one of the front ones, you don't have to smash anything. It is also shorter, so no wobble! They usually split in 3. Terrible to use as intended, but works great for cleaning out your chamber
My .308 went from 2825ft/sec on 42.5gr of S335 behind a 155gr bullet to 3000ft/sec on the same load. I remembered this video. I tried this cleaning method tonight and based on what I saw on the bristles I had a nasty carbon ring. I will go and validate speed on my pet load again on the weekend.
Speed down to 2908 from 3000ft/sec bit still higher than normal. Same everything. Now what??
I just wanted to thank you for the idea of using a drill to clean the rifle barrel. The thought of using that technique would have never entered my mind. I tried it and it works. Now I am going to the range and validate my squeaky clean barrel. Thanks again.
Yes, I saved Impact Pro Shop. I Plan to purchase you tutorials. Yes, have been buying MDT parts. Yes, I do comment for algorithm .
This is very helpful and I seriously doubt that a nylon brush will damage the rifle considering all the other stresses and strains a rifle is subjected to.
.223 Chamber brashes are fantastic for removing carbon rings, paired with a pistol cleaning rod chucked into a drill. You can also use your standard 25 caliber brush on your 6mm barrel, throw some JB bore cleaner paste on there and it will pull it out without having to go too far if you haven't let it get too bad.
Absolute life saver! I had pressure isues with my 6.5 lapua out of nowhere i couldn't eject the cases. Had to pound the cases out of the chamber from the muzzle end with a cleaning rod. The case bodies were massively swollen. Just checked and yup i have a carbon ring!
Good info Piet. That was amazing how loose the primer pockets got, wow. I don't know if you have CLR available there in SA, but CLR (Calcium, Lime, Rust) works pretty good on carbon. Erik Cortina uses it and because of him I have given it a try as well. Just be extra careful if you're working on a blued gun, since bluing is rust.
You have forgotten the little advice that Eric said; follow up with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol.
@@rudolphferdinand3634 you are absolutely correct, I did forget to mention the 91% isopropyl alcohol. Thanks for catching that
@@Halfmilesniper really highlighting the DO NOT USE on blued metal. i (intentionally) used it on an old muzzle brake, and it works well to remove the black colour from the metal turning it a light gray which then immediately started to rust. but the carbon was gone from it!
Thanks for a good explanation of carbon ring problems
Fastest way to get the carbon / carbon ring out is: clean the barrel to "spotless clean" then put it into a freezer. After a few hours, take out the barrel and pour boiling water down the bore. The thermal shock cracks the otherwise unbreakable carbon and if you put a bucket at the bottom, you will see a whole bunch of carbon particles in the water , job done. A trick from an old timer full bore target rifle shooter in Australia :)
Never heard that before. Interesting!
Learn something new every day. Never heard of doing this!
Thank you ! I did the same on my 6mm CM a few months ago and people told me I was crazy. Carbon fibre rod with nylon brush only pushed in far enough to get the ring. I didnt see how I could destroy the barrel....and surprise, I didnt. Its shoots great again !
Nice job! The answer is always a bigger hammer!
I have a 17 Remington gas gun, which shoots lights out, amazingly even with mixed brass, but my brass is sized down shoulder, bumped 223/5.56 brass.. and it gives me a short case that definitely will develop carbon ring same as your situation. Thank you for this insight.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say that I don't think the carbon you showed in the borescope video was the main culprit. I'll explain...
I have bore scoped many a dirty Dasher chamber and I have seen worse that were causing no trouble. Carbon that does cause trouble is almost always in the freebore area and not in the end of the neck. The freebore area is usually cut only .0005" larger in diameter than the bullet and it takes very little carbon buildup to cause issues in this area because of that. Carbon in the freebore area can cause the same higher pressure as commonly seen by bullets jammed into the lands. Carbon in the end of the neck area that you highlighted in the video can build up to about .015" thick radially without impending on the bullet space and so I believe it highly unlikely that the carbon in that area was causing a problem. I say this coming from the experience of personally wearing out approximately 12 Dasher barrels in the last 4 years. I also ruined some brass from over pressure in that time.
In my experience carbon buildup usually only causes an extreme overpressure issue if the load is already running at max pressure or beyond. My guess is the carbon exacerbated a pre-existing hot load condition. Also, brass often shows more pressure signs with a hot load on the 3rd or 4th firing when the same load didn't show pressure on the 1st or second firing.
I could also tell in your bore scope video that your freebore on that 6 Dasher chamber is very short. I'd estimate something like .050". Most PRS shooters in the USA are using a freebore between .135" and .180". Longer freebores result in lower pressure with a given powder load so I would expect you to hit pressure faster with your chamber. Small neck diameters on Dasher chambers also cause pressure problems sometimes. I'd recommend at least a .274" neck diameter unless you are neck turning.
In short, I don't know what your load is, but if you are running a 109 Hybrid faster than 2,900 FPS in a 6 Dasher with a barrel 26 inches long or shorter you are running it too hot and are asking for trouble. Do yourself a favor and slow it down to about 2,850 FPS and life will be great.
I trim my brass super short so I don't have to trim as often.
Good luck!
I think this fella is on the money. Thankyou for posting your experiences sir
@@rayzar6720 I say you be correct also
When I see an effeminate dude chucking a cleaning brush in a drill …I certainly wonder what other stupidity he is employing….primer pockets that loose are signs of powder overloading.
Pre treat with CLR if you can get it. I have spun a brush/rod with my drill in the throat also. Barrels are about the cheapest part of shooting.
CLR eats steel, even stainless used in rifle barrels. Proceed with caution.
Thanks Piet,
I’m a better rifleman and reloaded.
Great video!! Super high quality.
Move to America, we need you!
As an experienced F class shooter, I have to make some comments here, for the accuracy sake. Firstly, carbon ring is not a result of trimming cases too far back, it has little to do with it. It is a normal process of carbon adhering to surface at the point of discharge. You cannot stop it or minimize it, you can only push it forward or backward. Make sure your bore always has a little bit of graphite inside, bores do not like dry first shot at all. This is where most of the carbon gets deposited. There are no issues using the power drill to get rid of the carbon ring, just don't do this to the rest of the barrel. Not because you will damage anything, you won't. You don't want to over polish the bore, for a variety of reasons. Instead of breaking perfectly good cleaning rod, just use old 3 peace rod that you likely have in the kit. Lastly, forget the nylon brush. Use bronze brush. Patch with CLR first and hit it with abrasive compound before resorting to drill. You will not damage your barrel with bronze brush, that is an absolute horseradish, I cannot believe people still believe that stuff. Happy cleaning.
awesome insights, thanks a mill Mick!
@@IMPACTSHOOTING keep up the good work mate
I get that problem with shooting black powder, where the bullet is seated on the powder, and makes the last inch of seating the bullet a real pain!
Seeing my rifle is a modern one with a removable breach plug, it is easy to see and work on removing the carbon ring when cleaning.
But it is a real drag when you are working on trying different loads to see how new components are performing!
Bronze brushes are softer than barrel steels so there is no way that they can damage the rifling or the lead in the barrel.
Yes but the fouling and grit on the brush will abrade the barrel. Barrel ss is NOT surgical ss
@@Blair338RUM Thank goodness it isn't ss surgical. Surgical ss is a very low carbon, inexpensive very poor quality ss that is only made to stop rusting in an alcove. Barrel steel is much harder and of much higher quality.
Helpful advice, never-ever buy a knife marked surgical SS. It is the poorest quality you can buy. Period! Now near enough carbon content to ever hold an edge at all. It is the same ss used to make low buck pots and pans.
KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+years in the Craft
Recently done the same thing. Use one of those take down Cleaning ronds. Worked beautifully.
Now every clean is electricfied. No more scrubbing up and down manually. 5min and barrel is clean as from the factory
Dealt with this about 6 months ago.. velocity started getting crazy high in my 6.5 creedmoor load out of nowhere and started to get pressure signs. Did some research and found out about the carbon rings and looked in my chamber with my borescope and sure enough I had the dreaded carbon ring. Velocity went up close to 100fps.. cleaned the carbon ring and all was back to normal.
Super job! I'm doing the CLR very judiciously, but still having to work the cleaning rod by hand, so your method is really the route I will go to save time and effort. Thanks a bunch!
Did you see "winning in the wind" channel? He does a CLR test on stainless and it etches it pretty bad. Lots of the Black that comes out is actually stainless...
@@BRADASSOFFGRIDHOMESTEAD Yes, I saw his video on CLR, but it took him well over 24 hours of soaking to 'prove' that CLR is bad. I suspect if you leave Barnes CR-10 in a barrel that long, it could do damage as well. I've never left CLR in my barrel for more than 15 minutes and haven't detected anything but improved accuracy and easier removal of hard carbon, but people should do what they think is best and respect the rights of others to do likewise.
@@johnoltrogge6333 I use it, just wanted others to be aware not to believe everything they see on TH-cam. I use CLR for many things, cleaning brass, copper, etc.
Thank you again Piet for this very pedagogic video.
Along with the use of brushes to clean chamber and bores, I have used a military stand by….BRASSO. Introduced to me over forty years ago while in the Marine Corp. this little trick helped me shoot expert and get a trophy for high shooter at rifle camp.
Keep in mind though, thorough cleaning is a must after using the Brasso ,with solvent bore cleaner. FYI.
Just one little point to add, when your primers fall out like that, your load is way to close or even above maximum pressure. The carbon built-up increases the pressure of course but should not increase it to the level, that primer pockets widen and shells are deformed that much! During the barrel production process there are always tighter barrels at the end of mandrel tool lives ( before they change over to new ones) in the lot. I have one of these tighter barrels in 7 mm (.284). It still meets the tolerances but listed maximum loads of many manuals are definitely above the pressure limits for that particular barrel.
I get carbon rings on .308 barrels with factory ammo. Stainless steel match barrels seem to attract it worst, even though the rest of the stainless barrel is easier to clean. Scrubbing out the ring by hand with a nylon brush every time seems to prevent it from getting out of hand. Same with .22LR. My stainless match .22LR starts getting a ring after 50 rounds. The regular CZ 457 hardly gets rings at all.
Yeah, I definitely need to buy a bore scope, I have lots of barrels to check out. Especially military rifles. Great video.
I use a drill on mine quite often for a deep clean . Never found any issues I do use it on shotguns as same there you get the chamber where the cartridge opens get full of carbon and over time it builds up. Good video keep the good content coming.
Really helpful video and I also use a cordless with a Tipton rod that I threaded in a lathe an inserted a cap screw in the back that uses a 5 mm allen key, so no destroyed rod.
Pete, looks like life is treating you good. It's been a while since I've come on your channel. Mike here from Washington state, USA. I see the family is growing, kudos to you. Would you be thinking about a future trip back to the states for prs match show down?.......As to the carbon ring. Just fairly new to the reloading game but mindset says, this will become an issue sooner than later. Speaking for myself, I tend to over clean but have yet to purchase a bore scope. On the list I assure you. Liked that you brought about the mockup firing and subsequent chambering of the empty casing to give us the feel for how it all comes together. I've seen the honing by a few others and it appears to be fairly simple in it's adaption to rid the area of that ring. Take care.
Have done the exact thing, works Like a charm. I used oversized bronze brush, so it would push into lands.
Thats how Lou Murdica cleans his barrels. Been doing this a few months now. Works like a charm.
Thank you very much. Good info. Had the same problem a while ago with increase in speed. We tend to second guess the load. Very nice graphical depiction on fired round.
My Savage MKII is notorious for forming a carbon ring. Carbon mixed with the external lube of rimfire rounds make cleaning more frequent.
CLR stands for calcium, lime, rust. It MAY do the job but if you want a product DESIGNED to remove carbon use EASY OFF oven cleaner and spin a bore brush on a drill. Best thing since sliced bread.
I am sure it works, but I would be careful with EASY OFF because its corrosive
@@gjprieur7744 agree. Best thing I've found to flush the bore is one of those pump up plant sprayers with a clear flexible poly hose. Tilt bore down and flush away to your hearts content. Followed by a few dry patches and if done mop it with RED's
the nylon brush and drill works for me, thanks !
CLR, if I do a good clean I remove it from chassis, two screws, plug the muzzle with something, generally tie a rubber balloon etc. and fill with CLR while holding it vertically all the way to the top, give it 10min then drain and patch out, leaves it spotless every time just don't let CLR get to your trigger etc. As long as you remove all CLR after its all good
Awesome, just trimmed all my 6.5Cm Lapua brass to minimum length! Luckily I also have a sectioned cleaning rod and a power drill.
I've also had this issue and fortunately was able to diagnose before serious over pressure. I was on alert for it due to the powder I was using. It has a reputation for being 'dirty' curious as to what powder you were shooting for this load?
Love the drilling machine solution
Hey dude, so this video made me get a bores scope, and interestingly enough I didn't see the carbon ring, only about 70rounds down my Creedmoor, but seeing some other stuff.
Have you thought of giving us a platform to contact you with questions which may end up helping others? A blog, or forum?
I am using the 225 in my .338 win mag. The rifle has alot of freebore so seating depth isn't an issue. Just working out the powder. Good results so far.
They actually make a product that dissolves carbon deposits in seconds. It is made for cleaning carbon off of valves and valve seats inside of gasoline engines. Contact a Snap-On tool dealer and they should be able to sell you this product.
Worn bronze brush, work it back it back and forth other just the first 1’ -2’ of the barrel, JB bore paste to finish
Trim that cleaning rod down so the front of the drill does not quite reach the action. Will take that wobble out. Or get a 2 piece pistol rod, works great. Thanks for the vid! Keep it up.
Barrel looks polished now
I thought I was the only animal who used a drill on my cleaning rod! Quite a relief.
Is it just me or do I see small cracks in your free bore area? Basicly between were the extra short case necks would end and the carbon ring was building up. Is this normal? Even so, the gun is certainly shooting straight. Love the content. Keep it up.
This is common with barrels. They are small enough that they are hard to see when just looking down the barrel, but show up once a camera is used. It is caused by the heat and pressure. If this was a gas operated semi-auto barrel(AR-15, AR-10, etc) you would see them in the throat area as well as around the gas port.
Its normal.
It happens because of the heat and pressure : rapid fire is a good way to make it
Hi Piet, excellent video. At exactly 8:45, what is the black line in the "AFTER" picture?
Been using Iosso paste and battery drill for ages.... just cut 223 Ram rod and remember the watta.... and carbon rings also settle on the lands.
It's not the nylon brush, it's the tiny bits of diamond hard carbon that come loose, and are now whizzing sideways across your lands at 3,000 rpm with the nylon brush. I was told by more than one gunsmith, if you are really fouled up, run that drill at about 200 rpm and once you have it clean, keep it clean. They first recommend just keeping it clean to start with. A lot of guys are using CLR for 10 mins and flush with alcohol after brushing. Stainless steel barrels only with the CLR
Question… probably killing a dead horse here but please tell us why you would clean the carbon ring from the muzzle end and not from the breech end. I would think it’s easier and safer to clean from the breech with a rod guide than risk damaging your riflings cleaning from the muzzle… but please tell us the advantage or pro . Thanks!
you are exactly correct ! When you clean from the muzzle end , you push all the grit and crap down into the breech or chamber ! Most do it at the wrong end !
There is a product called FREE ALL that frees carbon better than anything ive ever seen.
good video, will help many.
Thank you for taking the time.
Thanks for the tip!
Iosso bore cleaning paste works very well.
Very interesting. I shoot 6 Dasher Norma brass. Rifle chambered for Norma. So I'll be sure to clean my chamber when using shorter neck.
Instead of breaking the handle from a cleaning rod just use those cheap rods from cleaning kits. Add some thread locker in between the links let it set. Then add your nylon/ brass brush and power tool away the carbon. Don't use any steel brushes or any brush made of a harder material than your barrel.
Carbon ring is not about pressure. When it gets to that stage it has already stuffed you around with bad accuracy for a while. Getting on top of carbon ring is a good recipe for accuracy, just don't let it build up
What a great channel.
This is a very timely video. I’m currently trying to find the safest way to remove the carbon ring from my rifle. There’s not a lot of good videos on the subject.
Plug the muzzle with an earplug and fill the barrel with CLR to the chamber, let it sit for a few hours and patch it out. 👌🏻
Lou Murdica spoke this and stated the carbon ring can cause a spike up to 10k psi. That's pretty bad. I've used the drill method to remove carbon rings, and even used it on my barrel, didn't cause a single bit of damage and no decease in accuracy, Kept my 0.75 MOA 10-shot group at 1k yards out of my 6GT and my 0.55 MOA in the 6 Creed. I've known several guys that use a drill to get out tough carbon and a couple of em use use bronze brushes. I tried bronze and it had no impact on accuracy either, I just dont like paying for bronze brushes when nylon is so much cheaper.
If you have a bunch of issues with carbon, check out boretech carbon eliminator. I use it for my muzzle break. 10/10
CLR eats barrels. Barrel makers warn against it. Kroil, followed by bore paste.
If you use a product like CLR or what I use Seaclean 2 it removes carbon effortlessly,
7 wet patches completely cleaned the bore and a 30sec scrub with a nylon brush and the carbon ring was gone.
Neutralise with Cleaning alcohol, and oil to finish and protect 👌
CLR will destroy your barrel.
No it won’t, not if it’s properly neutralised.
I also inspect by barrels on a regular basis and they are perfect 👌
Just to be clear the CLR is once in a blue moon use not a regular use cleaning product.
I know many mentioned it CLR but but only on stainless plus clean it after everytime you shoot it i know its a pain but put in some music and make the best of it
I just use CLR. Little bit on a patch in that area for 15 mins. Patch out. Done
this is so useful !!!! Thanks😊
Excellent clip, very imformative
Did you use the standard bore diameter brush to do this? I have Iosso brushes as well, are the bristles long enough to effectively clean that area or do you need to use a size up?
If a bronze phosphorus brush damages a barrel then the barrel is junk. The fact that the myth that these brushes are bad for a modern barrel keeps in play is so mind boggling. Back and forth or on a drill up and down the entire length of the barre at high speed just won't harm a barrel.
And the internet is going to freak out over the use of power tools.
A very prominent bench rest shooter does this and sent his barrels back to the manufacturer for inspection and zero damage. he doesn't have the time nor the shoulder strength to deal with cleaning barrels conventionally.
I have been doing this for a few years with my AR 15s. The chambers and lugs are a pain in the but to clean but give it 1 to 2 seconds with a chamber brush on a drill and they look brand new.
I never let my barrels get pass 20-30 rounds I’ve cut my 5 shot groups to 3-4 depending then clean at the range soak it up travel let soak overnight then clean and oil My only issues is w the 22-250 1:14 twist I don’t let it get that dirty after 20 groups open one hole on a ppalma cut to 23”
Mate,
Same issues with the dasher. I bumped my shoulders too far back. This created the same space 🤦
This comment is for everyone’s input…do I need to worry about a carbon ring in a 300 WM that only shoots factory loads?
Appreciate your vid’s new to this hobby/sport.
In regards to MDT and showing my support I wish I could but they are always sold out but with good reason I guess.
Cheers.
I bought an MDT xrs here in Australia through a local dealer, took me nearly 2 months too get it, worth the wait tho 👍
I would use a shorter pistol cleaning rod. Less wobble on the rod or use a guide...great info thanx bro
Ha! I waved back to your kid!
Do you think if we use nylon brush with a shorter rod like a pistol cleaning rod and clean from the action end would it clean just as well?
What length were you trimming your brass to? And what length are you going to now?
Check out Sinclair chamber length gauge
Instead of scrubbing put some Boretech C4 on the problem. It will literally melt the carbon.
Doesn't the brass trimmer form Lee have a depth gauge or is that too far?
Lekker, guess I'll be getting an endoscope soon,thanks boet
You could ruin a cleaning rod, or just use CLR when removing carbon from the barrel.🙂 breaks up a carbon ring easily.
Thank you 😊
You're welcome 😊
Nice video Piet, again.
Question: Except for the bolt maybe closing tightly to use as indicator is there any other signs ea. something on the brass to indicate a carbon ring is building?
(Don't know if someone already asked this, too lazy to look for it😉)
Borescope view.....
Do you use the same size nylon brush as bore diameter?
Me too
I'm working on figuring out how much to trim my brass on my competition 6 CM... It's all been once fired and seems to have a decent amount of difference from factory in overal length. I do have a borescope, question is after watching this video, do I literally try to make the gap as small as possible? My brass all seems to be shorter than SAAMI trim length. Any help is appreciated.
Trim as long as you want. But make sure you always trim at exact same length. Problem is not to have a carbon ring. It’s to chamber a round trimmed longer, sitting ON the carbon ring. It then kinda reduce the chamber neck diameter, then may force a bigger neck tension. If you always trim the same, you can build a quite thick carbon ring and it has no effect on pressure or accuracy.
those videos you used at @6:15, where they from?
I use a cleaning rod that comes in 3 parts that you need to screw together
......what ????.....at around 6:19 - "pinches on the neck of the bullet??....wtf??....please explain, ..... do you mean - pinch on the ogive of bullet ??...... or pinch on the mouth of the neck of the case ??.....this could confuse newbies......
Baie goeie video oom het baie geleer💪💪❤️❤️
A cleaning pad soaked in carbon remover and left in the chamber for 10 minutes also eliminates carbon
Hallo Piet,
Waar het jy jou wall storage system gekoop?
Very interesting
Reloading all day has a video on TH-cam on how to measure your chamber length to cut brass to chamber to minimize carbon ring..
luv ur videos....btw its buckle up not in...just saying
I dobthe same in the forcing cone of my o/u 12ga. That little ring is cute compared to what that thing produces.