The Problem With Adam and Eve | Response to Ken Ham
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Ken Ham's video: • Joe Rogan Asks Why God...
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0:00 "This is not the world as God made it"
4:14 The problem with Adam and Eve
13:12 Evolution
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Just imagining Ken Ham standing in front of a child with cancer and saying, "You deserve nothing, you deserve death because you are sinful".
And then gives the parents a 5% discount at the gift shop.
I can imagine Ken saying that in front of a child. I can't imagine him saying that in front of the child's parents. Since Ham still has most of his teeth, clearly he hasn't done so. What a pathetic man!
Your missing the point of sin and judgement🤦🏻♂️, bible saids, the wages of sin is death, an the irony of still being alive is where you atheists fail to realize the goodness n grace of the living God , grace meaning receiving what you don’t deserve, we deserve death because of Adam disobedience,in doing what God told him not to do but now to question why a God would not just start all over with creation is rational, that has to do with Glory an a promise, he promised noah aswell as to poing out we are made in the image of God, that being christ, some are predestined to hell an some predestined to accept this grace an admit that were sinners, overall what was meant for evil God meant for Good(actual bible verse)
Ken ham may not say it how you would like but thats called studying, atheists have no explanation for morality an aswell no explanation for creation, you fail to understand sin an also fail to see how foolish an weak your philosophy actually is, im not a hater an I understand where u come from but atleast consider what im saying…..but my guess you probably wont that said concluding the topic that you never cared to begin with. If you do i encourage you to study the Bible an its sources,
U really don't understand the age of accountability: as God is merciful before you can understand!
No, Ken would be saying, “Repent of your sins and be saved.” You may disagree with what Ken says but stop making him out to be a bad person.
Ken Ham creates more new atheists than he'll ever know.
Unfortunately, that is true, and from there, this leads to further meaningless, nihilism, hopelessness and a higher suicide rate.
@@solesurvivor7989The reasons why Atheists commit suicide would not have anything to do with being Atheist.
People who can't confide in others or have to fake part of who they are or face persecution will have a higher suicide rate, will feel hopeless etc etc. But in what way is this because they're atheist? The real cause is the Christians/other religious fanatics who decide that Atheists are evil and attack an Atheists non-belief.
As for life being "meaningless/hopeless" without a religion... this is a very narrow view of it. If you don't believe, you don't have to do whatever for the rest of your life. Isn't that freeing, rather than hopeless?
@@solesurvivor7989
[] ... this leads to further meaningless, nihilism, hopelessness and a higher suicide rate.
I do not understand. Please elaborate.
@@solesurvivor7989 So, you're saying you can't get through life without belief in a being that's never been proven to exist?
The Scandinavian countries are largely secular and voted the best places to live in the world. They seem to do fine without belief in a god.
@@epicofatrahasis3775 The Nordic countries are the happiest for now because the temporary of solution of social democracy and the added benefit of beneficial geography and abundant material conditions that have ensconced them in wealth and comfort compared to the rest of the world, irrespective of their religious identities.
Some people can indeed "get through life" that way but others can't, I used to hate the idea of God, yet I always believed in Him, but I entertained atheist apologists such as Alex, and considered atheist or agnosticism, but apologists like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins or Alex here were never able to convince me. When I was a teen and rejected Christianity out of ignorance, I also hated people, science and everything, because I was just so nihilistic and depressed and had such a bad attitude towards life. This is why I personally don't like atheism or find it convincing but it's not to say that some people haven't had different experiences.
As an Australian, I apologise for releasing Ken Ham on the world. But we don't want him back; he's all yours.
As a New Zealander, I am deeply sorry for that other christian knob jockey's presence in the US, but grateful that he is not here.
@@forrestrobles813 Northern Territory crocs are partial to a bit of ham
Well, in fairness, you also sent us Margot Robbie, so...we'll call it square.
Your neighbour NZ unleashed an equally deplorable blight on this world, called Ray Comfort.
@@sca8217 banana man. total plonker.
I had so many of the same questions as a child in Sunday school. I was told to read the Bible and I would understand. I finally understood that the whole thing is insanity.
In response to my questions I was quoted scripture (much like MrPoopingCorpse and Bebedibah are doing): "cast down imaginations". When threatened, the lies of "The Word of God" demand that you ...
STOP THINKING.
I was around 12 btw.
Same.
I was told to have faith! Pfffft
@@ozziejim8472
Me too. When I asked the minister, "How do you know this?" he answered, "you just have faith."
I realized that ALL religions are BS and adherents to ANY one of them need to be carefully watched for signs of mental illness.
"We don't deserve to exist." How can any rational person not recognize how dangerous this hamster is?
If it's so trivial then you can easily share your proof or evidence that we do deserve to exist.
When did I ever say it was a trivial veiwpoint? I said exactly the opposite. I said it was a profoundly dangerous for someone to have and try to promote. @@ichthyostegaxd3727
If you really, truly think that you need a compelling reason to believe you and other humans "Deserve" to exist, then I can only feel sorry for you.@@ichthyostegaxd3727
@@ichthyostegaxd3727That is unreasonable. Every breath you take is a sign that you believe you deserve to exist. What is dangerous about his statement is that it frames our existence in terms of deserving or not deserving. Animals and plants in nature just exist, and so should we. It is ludicrous to even go down that line of thinking; in fact, it is dangerous. Millions of human beings are in a state of mental anguish because it has been suggested to them that their existence is incorrect. “God created you, you are flawed through no fault of your own, and God loves you. So please hate yourself.” Such a toxic system of beliefs!
@@uisblackcat Not questioning something that exists is intellectually dishonest.
And believing that something is correct isn't sufficient evidence or proof.
I remember seeing Ken Ham talk with Bill Nye. Bill was astonished at Ham’s stupidity.
……not just Bill, my friend.
Yeah , I saw that too...
'Climate change is the most serious problem facing Humankind'...
Bill Nye displaying his irrational belief system.
I thought it was a mistake for Nye to debate him which tends to give an opponent an appearance of credibility.
Remember Ken Ham is willfully stupid. Much much worse than simply being uneducated.
Wasn't there one gal watching that exchange who started out convinced by Ken, but the more Bill talked the more she started asking questions of them both and looking like she was reconsidering?
I am of the Christian who is deconstructing my faith at 49. I find these videos very informative, intelligent, and thoughtful without disrespect. You just gained a new subscriber who is searching
How's the search going ?
hope your search is going well! so hard to leave, know that you’re brave for challenging these ideas. :-)
Angela, there are many things we don't know. Search for truth and follow the evidence. As a Christian, I have found that science and other scholarly endeavors can shed light on many things. It had actually dramatically grown My faith, not diminished it. Remember that every theism around the globe has a dogmatic construct that surrounds their belief system. Let evidence guide you, realizing that no one side has all the answers. Asking questions like Alex does is good! It makes you stronger and wiser.
@@clmkc5393 I would love to hear your response to the very logical points Alex had highlighted here in this video.
Now if you don’t believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. That’s fine, but if so, are you able to explain what original sin actually is? Where did it derive from since Adam and Eve were not real humans but just a metaphor for humanity as a whole?
At what point in evolution did humans do something wrong through the mechanism of random mutation and natural selection (which is outside of our control) that makes us inherently disobey? How are we inheriting a sin that we did not commit?
@@AaronHarvey86
Good questions. I am all tied up in meetings but will respond asap. Thanks for the co.ments.
I also find it interesting that the serpent is seen as evil…..when in the story…..he’s the one telling the truth.
No, he is the one using certain knowledge to put humans against God. BTW, why do you think after eating of the apple they realized they were naked and were embarrassed? In case you didn't know if you read the Bible in ancient Hebrew it states that the original sin was Eve who slept with the serpent and she also gave birth to the line of the serpent/Satan which started with Cain and his descendants. The "tree of knowledge" was about carnal knowledge and to be sinful in carnal passions. That's why they were embarrassed when they realized they were naked. Also, in the Talmud Eve wasn't the first woman. Lilith was the first wife of Adam, but she was also sinful and she slept with demons and was lustful.
@@Luis-xh3vj Yeah, it’s all man-made, made up bullshit anyway….it doesn’t matter. Just be a good person and everything will be okay. I live by this Marcus Aurelius quote.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
@@cz8024 Satanist here, Marcus Aurelius gave us words to live by.
And you're right, the serpent in the garden did absolutely nothing wrong. 🐍 #justiceforsnek
@@Luis-xh3vjI'm Jewish and know Hebrew and do not think you are correct I'm also thinking you are repeating something you heard and you did not read anything in ancient hebrew
@@cz8024awesome quote would love to read it in its original latin
"When inventing a god, the most important thing is to claim it is invisible, inaudible, and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise people will become skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing." - Lindsey Brown
"Invisible" and "non-existent" look very similar.
@@nevbarnes1034 Just like gravity... Oh feck, gravity exists?
@@BrianNewton286 I'm not an atheist but that's not a great come back man. You can calculate gravity and you can't do that for God. Also when you drop something it falls to the ground, if you do the same and pray to God that the thing doesn't fall that's not likely to happen. You should have mentioned consciousness instead of gravity bro.
@@hashimzebofficial It was an awesome comeback, you only asserted *"Invisible" and "non-existent" look very similar.* Are you telling me that gravity is "visible"?
@@BrianNewton286 Nope I'm not saying its visible but it can be calculated and it varies from point to point. God being a much bigger concept than that just thought the gravity come back is old and doesn't make much sense. What next? Air?
When Iwas young I idolized ken ham. I wrote to Answers in Genesis asking genuine questions i had. Notably “How do I know the bible is true?”. It stood out to be me then, at 9 years old, that his secretary never answered the question. He sent me bible verses and dino cards back. I still have them. “the bible is true because the bible says so”.
As a Christian, that's a horrible answer lol
Protestants can not answer that question because they do not believe in the authority of the apostolic fathers
@@Bendertherobot69420I’ve known enough of Ken Ham’s worshippers to know that yes, they are dumb enough to think that’s a good argument.
Wah GOD isn’t real because one man didn’t answer my question on Eternal Life and the Creator!
@@ghostwhite1648your reductionist comment is recognized by the council. It has been acknowledged as pathetic.
I like the theory that the story of the garden of edan is a metaphor for the dawn of agriculture and the end of our hunter gatherer lifestyle, and we "became like god" in that we gained control over nature to produce food.
Except we don't control nature
@@mindeyethemasterscreen2712, no but we weren't 100% subject to it either being able to produce food and domesticate crops and animals. Talk to the people that came up with the theory if you don't like how they worded it.
Possibly, but weren’t the ancient Israelites nomadic people in 1400 BC and not agricultural?
I have thought so, too, ever since I learned a lot of prehistory. 😊
@@Stevewilldoit96 I don't think nomadic and pre-agricultural are the same thing. Sure, nomadic people are non-agrarian, but don't they have domesticated animals for sustenance. Are we just debating dictionary definitions here ? Either way, it was an interesting point you raised, so thank you.
I’ve always had a problem with the concept of being “a sinner”. That you can only be saved from your sin, by surrendering to the idea that Jesus died, to save us from the sins we’re committing now. I never felt like I was a sinner, and I never felt a connection to Jesus, God or the Holy Spirit. It just doesn’t make sense.
yeah, like I didn't eat the fruit, why am I being blamed for what some guy did before my great great great great great grandparents were even born
Surely all of us are liars at one point or another. People surrender to Jesus because of multiple reasons. One of which is, Jesus would rather be hung on the cross than tell a lie. Secondly, Jesus offers healing and comfort. Thirdly, he offers eternal life. The reason that you don't feel like this has something to do with your brain. There was a study on brains like yours. There's something missing. Not saying there's something wrong with you. You're just different, but you definitely fall under the category of being an atheist...
I was homeschooled and didn't receive a science education. I was "taught" pure Young Earth Creationism at home and in church. Then when I was a teenager, my church played one of Ken Ham's DVD series and his arguments were such utter BS even for me that I started questioning Young Earth Creationism.
Good for you Iam happy you got actual truth instead of his BS
I don't think that's quote fair to him. His problem is he doesn't lie about the science, unlike so many others, which means his argument always comes back to "but that's assuming things weren't massively different back then" and "things are better with jesus"
Test everything hold on to the good and avoid every kind of evil.
@@danielgerber7422 I guess I know what you’re saying. But it IS an assumption. He’s not wrong. It IS assuming that things that might have changes did not change and were always this way, and judging it by that perspective.
@@danielgerber7422 he doesn't lie about the science in this particular clip, I'll grant you that.
Ken is fondly describing an abusive relationship in which hurting someone is 'loving'.
Yeah, but apparently we deserve it. We should be very very sorry for whatever it is we are supposed to have done.
So did mother Teresa 😅
Do not deserve to exist!!!!!!! Giy could fuck off!!
@@arrivagabry Maybe before she started to doubt her belief.
Raised by a father who didn't let you wear clothes until you worked out that was wrong.
Wow your line of thinking is always astonishing. Thanks for your work
I think the reason why people are becoming atheist because of despiritualization
another great one. thx 4 the upload.
The story of genesis is about all of humanity being punished forever just because 2 people lost a rigged game against an all powerful being.
They were not against God to begin with. But whoever remains against God until death will indeed lose salvation.
@@jeremias2975 That god scripted humanity to fail, so he does indeed oppose humanity.
@@2l84me8 God is independent from the constraints of space and time: He sees our future as clearly as He sees our past and our present. That's why the Lord can reveal prophecies to us. His knowledge doesn't erase our moral responsibility.
He also knows what would have happened, the "ifs", the hypotheticals:
“my people did not listen to my voice; Israel would not submit to me.
So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels.
Oh, that my people would listen to me, that Israel would walk in my ways!
I would soon subdue their enemies and turn my hand against their foes.”
@@jeremias2975 You haven’t even proven your god exists to begin with nor does that change the fact he is a colossal and immoral screw up based on the scripture.
@@2l84me8 I do not affirm that God exists, as if He were a creature living in this universe, constrained by the limitations of time and space.
I affirm that He is, and that everything was created for and by Him:
“Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.”
And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel:
‘The LORD, the God of your fathers,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him.
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
And he is the head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.”
I'm a Christian, and my opinion is Ken Ham is one of the worst Christian apologetist in the current market 😂
Apologists*
Christians (and other religions) have plenty to apologise for
He is definitely up there but its tough competition
I am atheist, and I agree with you.
the man is a tool for those who we must not talk about. he want that esau to be slave of Jacob, The western men are having reduced sperm count, why ? when Jacob was a lair and a fraud.
Apparently his god choose fraudsters over people who are being lied to.
Alex’s delving into Genesis makes me wanna play Assassin’s Creed for some reason.
Also, it seems like even a cursory reading of Genesis makes God the unambiguous villain. He does an entire villain speech in the end about how he cannot allow the protagonists to get the McGuffin or else he will no longer be able to rule this world with an iron fist.
😂. Im starting to think that the bible didn't start out as a religion but folk lore of some sort
A cursory reading without thought would lead me to the same conclusion. A careful and thoughtful reading has led me to very different conclusions. Was there a beginning?
There is no quicker way to grow the number of non believers than to widely distribute ken ham videos.
Thank you for your service ken.
There is not a heaven for non believers. There is nothing to celebrate after death for them. Big numbers? Yes. Big numbers, and big sorrow: “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”
@jeremias2975 Atheists know there's nothing after death, which makes life that much more valuable. To me, the concept of an eternal life praising god in a "heaven" is itself a horrifying portrait of hell.
Christians will be spared the disappointment of finding out that atheists are correct only because atheists are correct.
If you want to waste your life in a childish delusion, fine. But stay away from kids and legislators and stop trying to corrupt society with your Bronze Age madness. You've done enough damage to the world already.
@@jeremias2975can I ask. Why should we believe you?
Hello @@HIIIBEAR That’s because I’m based in the Word of God. The Word of God is the Son, the Savior: the Christ.
It is also the Bible, the Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit so people can know, love, trust and obey God.
I’ll make five points and share the base for asserting their veracity.
1. The Holy Scripture is inspired by God, both the Old Testament and the New Testament:
“continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
“count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters.
There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.”
Ken Ham is Straight up crazy. Just makes excuses. Is logically debunked. Makes more excuses. Is logically debunked. Rinse and repeat.
Hopefully empirically and logically!
He's not crazy, he's a grifter.
@@lrvogt1257 This
He has made a very good living for someone of limited intelligence by pushing his creationist nonsense for decades. He has been schooled by some great brains so there's no excuse for his continued, stubborn adherence to these primitive beliefs.
@@lrvogt1257I suspect that you're right.
Ohhh these points are so good
Great video man. The way you explain things 😂 I love it. Makes me wonder how you could ever believe in such crazy things. Thanks for what you do buddy 💪🏻
Ken Ham trying to debunk Alex is like a flat earther trying to debunk Carl Sagan
Hey, if the Earth were round, those cute little penguins would fall off of Antartica into cold empty space. The poor things.
LOL, exactly..or an anti-vaxxer trying to square up against Fauci - who is hated by the deranged right-wingers
The trouble is, half the people on this planet actually believe Ken Ham. I know what you're thinking, and I agree with you; any sensible human being would but we're not all sensible human beingsunfortunately.
He invented a new logical fallacy, but there may actually not be anyone stupid enough to fall for it
@@russ4moose did you say Ken Ham invented a logical fallacy? Like what?
I've been an atheist from Nigeria since 15...I'm 19 now and you just help me debunk genesis more
Thanks bro
Not that you asked for this but I also just discovered this idea and I think it helps me a lot: What we don't know has infinite possible solutions (not 2 like is often presented: God/Not God). Once you see how many people, not just believers, create these false dichotomies of the unknown (instead of being comfortable saying "I don't know"), things become a lot more clear as they turn gray instead of black and white :)
Hello bro 😂
@@worshadar150 "I don't know" is the most based statement in the English language.
@@Naptosis 🤷♂️🤷♀️
You are willfully self deceived!!
Fantastic analysis 🙌
So glad I found your videos.
When I was a kid and I was really into Christianity, I used to ask my local preachers questions. I asked him about cave people which he claimed didn't exist. I asked him how the people at the very beginning of time mated if they were related and things like that. Every time I asked him a question like that, I always felt like I was attacking his faith. He would get defensive and he became blunt with me. The funny thing is. The only reason I was asking these questions, is because I felt like I needed to arm myself against atheists questioning my faith!
Now I'm an atheist as well and now I know why he couldn't answer any of my questions.
Shame on you for actually questioning why you believe what you believe to respond to atheists better when you should have stopped asking questions, buried your natural curiosity and become a mindless drone like what God created us all for!
Judaism is smarter about that - it encourages asking all those questions, and leads the answers the "right way". They carefully steer away from anything too dangerous, and fill much of the need to question things while already having ready, safe answers. You do see something similar with modern Christian and Muslim fundamentalists, but it's quite crude and way too obviously leading - the main thing they invest in is creating a feeling of isolation and being special (just like the early Israelites). And for those wavering, there's always the endless threat of losing pretty much their entire social structure overnight, losing your family and all your friends and acquaintances the second you realize you need to get "out".
I spent my last few years of schooling in a fundamental Catholic college whose main path to faith was corporal punishment (aka raw violence.)
Their main output, I discovered after leaving, was confirmed atheists.
Something similar happened to me. I am from Rome, Italy, and while my family is largely secular, it is tradition to send kids to catechism for their First Communion. It has little to do with faith and religiosity and everything to do with familial traditions and eating a lot of food.
Catholic priests can hardly be distinguished from American Evangelicals when it comes to answering uncomfortable questions, but I didn't know that at the time. In school I had a Religion teacher that was actually quite cool. He even tried to teach us about Eastern religions, other types of Christianity, etc. He also didn't make outlandish claims, so when I questioned him, he simply answered to the best of his abilities. He didn't become hostile and red in the face.
My questions for the priest were pretty basic.
How did Adam and Eve's kids find spouses to make babies with?
Where did these women come from?
Ditto for Noah family.
Why did God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt?
Why was it A-ok for Lot's daughters to make babies with their father (The priest didn't mention that part of the story, but as an avid reader I read it to see how it ended)?
If God is omnipotent, why did my friend's kid sister die at 2 of an illness? Surely, she couldn't have been a sinner.
The priest eventually became red in the face and started sputtering. First he tried to tell me to shut-up and that God knew better than some 10 year-old.
Eventually, he took me out of class and stuck me in an empty room, facing the corner, "to pray and ask God for guidance".
So I did. I cobbled together what I knew about the Universe at that age and at first I asked God. Naturally, no answers were forthcoming. Then I reasoned that God must have been someplace among the stars. That if he was omnipresent, he was in the room with me and didn't find it in him to help me out with my questions.
Then I tried to understand the vastness of the Cosmos, our insignificance in it, how we were prisoners of this tiny planet lost in the void. I really tried to find a spot for God in that mess of stars, but I couldn't.
Eventually I had a revelation. The priest didn't know shit.
He had no better answers than my very devout grandmother did, but she didn't attend seminary, where they study these things (at least according to grandma). I was truly baffled that this priest didn't have any good answers to very basic things like that.
In Rome the presence of the Church is all encompassing. They are everywhere. Priests, nuns, the devout going to mass. I suddenly realized that none of them had the answers.
If the priest was ignorant of basic things like "Where did Cain and Abel's wives come from?", what right did he have to tell me what to do and what to believe in?
Additionally, my father worked for the United Nations. I grew up around kids from all over the world. They had their own stories and their own faith, but according to what the priest was telling me, all of them were going to Hell to suffer for eternity. It just made no sense.
I left that room an atheist, even though I didn't really have a name for what I was. I just knew that whatever that priest believed in, I wanted no part of it.
@@LuaanTi And the especially radical ones won't stop at that.
Imagine trying to adhere to a 2000 y.o., non-canon desert comic full of plot holes. It's really stunning how absurd a task it would have to be in defending it in a debate setting.
"desert comic" 😂
Which comic? The council of Nicea one? The Catholic version? The Protestant version?
Which translation?
Which intepretation?
@@wefinishthisnow3883 the whole series. + spin offs and the dlc.
@@arwedm.2327the arabic editions as well.
To be fair, Ken Ham's brand of "biblical literalism" is a very recent (and very stupid) phenomenon. Christians did not historically read these texts this way.
In some writing I did years ago, I also brought up the issue with the snake. The snake obviously--according to the fable--used to talk; so, that suggests that turning the snake mute was also part of the punishment even though that is not mentioned. Punishing the snake to drag themselves on the ground also implies that they had legs and arms and used walk upright or on four legs. I'm trying to imagine a human holding a normal conversation with a walking-talking snake.
The Bible and especially Genesis, uses many symbolisms, metaphors and allegorical references. The "serpent" was representative of an adversary or evil that encountered and communicated with humans at some point in human history. This being "beguiled Eve" - persuading or attracting her for deceptive purposes. The talking serpent, was thus, a likely symbolic reference. I love your next question concerning the use of the word "US" - the plural form meaning more than one. This is found in not only Genesis 1:26 (like one of US) , but also Genesis 3:22 (man has become like one of US), with additional references in Psalm 89:5-8, Daniel 7: 9-14 ,Genesis 11:7 (“let US go down"), Psalm 82:1 (among the gods), Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 (sons of God), . Some believe this points to (1) a "divine council" - an assembly of lesser divine beings or figures, (2) Angels (3) the Trinity (4) reference to the formal names and attributes of God - i.e. Adonai, Elohim, El Shaddai,Jireh, Rapha, Nissi, Shalom, Tsidkenu, Shamah and others. There are other secondary references as well. Its critical to understand the linguistic context of the Old Tesament, words, concepts, ideas. Isaiah 40 - 45 presents what has been called “the trial of the gods”, where Yahweh presents himself as a distinct, sovereign and supreme entity, subject to no other entity. This “divine council” may be genuine agents of God who participate in carrying out God’s divine will in the universe. There is so much more to say but I will leave it alone for now.
@@clmkc5393 The bible is presumably "the word of a god"--assertively the Abrahamic god. That's the claim. [His] words are cardinal to the redemption of this world, but then the god speaks in symbolisms, metaphors and allegories to a world of more than half of ignorants? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That may help to explain why this world is so crazy.
@@charles-iii6759
The word of God or the word of men inspired by God? The direct "God breathed" words are few in Scripture. Most of the Bible is "man generated" under the influence of what men believed was spiritually influenced. Thus, the usage of symbolism and other literary forms. Imagine someone trying to explain Elija being "taken up in a whirlwind." Was it a tornado, a lightning storm, or an ET vehicle that was indescribable to the writer? Other literary works in antiquity purposely utilize symbolism, allegorical references and metaphors to expand its meaning to different audiences. Why not the Bible? Consider the writings of Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism - their usage of literary tools is often greater than Judeo Christianity.
You are so clear about what you say... 🙌🙌
Ken is not the only with that mindset. People like him are scary.
Booooo!😂Christian creationist here. What problem do you have to not believe in Lord Jesus?
@jeremias2975 Then, explain why the story of Adam and Eve is about 6000 years old and the Earth is over 4 billion years old? Also, explain man's existence on Earth is about 500,000 years old? Education is your problem and your beliefs keep you from being educated.
It is easy to assume you may have gone to school but you were not actually educated in the least sense of the word. I have met people that went to school but never learned a thing. Just because a teacher teaches does not mean the student learns. BTW, I am very educated and I feel sorry for you.
@@richardhardin9184 Radiometric dating methods are not trustworthy. Archeology closely matches biblical history, placing the origins of man (Eden, Babel and the first cities) in Mesopotamia, and confirming the biblical history of Israel, Babylon, Greece, Rome and more.
Evolution is a belief, a historical speculation, chosen by atheist to be their origins story without the Creator, a Godless Genesis, and it’s not even a product of the scientific method.
You are not an unbeliever for lack of evidence concerning God, but because of your evilness:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”
@@richardhardin9184Oh, we know that the Earth is billions of years old and that humanity has been around for 500,000? Would you like to explain how we know that without simply falling back on “science tells us so”?
you can hear the abused spouse, "they were right to beat me, I deserved it"...."by hitting me, it proved how much they loved me"...."they knew what was best for me and I was wrong to question them"
Enter straw man. Try steel manning just once
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922try critically thinking for once, instead of claiming strawman when it isn't one
Ken and his ilk absolutely think we're all lowly sinners and we need to crawl begging for forgiveness.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 seems pretty accurate to me, bud. if you want to insist that your god is all powerful and all knowing, then he is also a child abuser. That's just a straight examination of the claims.
@@mollywolfe7321 its almost like you dont understand: sin, fallen world, and holiness
@@JaredMcCloudTJW liar. zero credibility. im not supposed to call you guys bigots though, huh?
The way Alex dismantles every verse is something i aspire to do. Is amazing the attention to every word written in the verses and the arguments made agaist them.
But he doesn't - you may as well be watching a Hallmark drama
The "not knowing they were doing 'evil' before knowing good & evil" is the crucial argument, and this is actually the first time I heard a public figure mention that....
I've read Genesis so many times, yet somehow it has never struck me before that the serpent actually told the truth and that God arguably lied.
…. And you are under deception.
so what do you think about it now? Did you read Genesis with the background belief that its from a book inspired by an all loving God?
@@ghostwhite1648how? That's what it says. Adam was already mortal as evidenced from the tree of life part. And he didn't die that day. In the story, the serpent told the truth.
@@hive_indicator318 Adam was immortal, his spirit remained with GOD, but Adam and Eve would have been able to experience the Love of God without needing to be reborn as we do.
@@JohnCamacho I used to, yes, which is why I missed so many things like that. Eventually, though, I started to notice ethical problems in the Bible that I couldn't ignore in spite of my assumption that it was inspired by God. I now see it as a fully human production, with plenty of bad but also some good.
I like how you approached this. Very literally. He's a Bible literalist, so that's just turning his own logic against him.
To be clear, Ken Ham is not a pure literalist. He believes parts of the Bible were intentional poetry, and that those parts can be read more loosely. However, Ken also believes the whole of Genesis was intended to be literal by the writers, so that’s how it should be read. Which, hey, I actually agree with him on the point that the Bible should be interpreted the way the writers intended it to be. The thing we’d disagree on is whether the literal parts are actually, factually true.
@@Leith_CrowtherSo what you're saying is that Ken is a professional cherry-picker. Sounds about right.
@@tommy_svkyep and somehow thinks ppl are doomed for not buying the bullshit.
@@Leith_Crowther Well said. The first balanced post on here. Also outside the echo chamber as well. I was an agnostic. The only honest position to have. Saying there is no God is an act of faith and philosophical in nature and not scientific. I came to believe because of Genesis and the reality of how complex DNA is and its zero chance of forming without intelligence behind it. You have all heard of Mitochondrial Eve....If anyone has eyes let him see.
@@dulls8475OK, this is awesome. We actually have a premise which could indicate an intelligent designer. Can you explain how you calculated a probability of exactly 0% that DNA can form without any intention?
I’m ignoring the “mitochondrial Eve” thing because it’s definitely not what you think it is. It’s just the most recent common ancestor of all humans, which is something that can change based on the humans who are alive or dead now and in the future.
And as a side note, you never mentioned whether you were an agnostic theist or atheist, but I’m assuming atheist.
Excellent. Great job!
Incredibly well stated. Thank you so much for this contribution. Highly enjoyable
So good, thank you.
On behalf of my fellow Australians, we sincerely apologise for Ken existing 😅
don't be sorry we all have at least one of these morons in our midst no matter what country your from it's not your fault how warped his views are.
I heard a rumour that he's planning a sister ark in Australia. Alice Springs?
@@PortmanRd so now he wants to screw the government there out of millions in tax cuts and concessions just like he did in Kentucky what a grifter
@@PortmanRd He's such another Jim Baker: so full of ignorant interpretations and scams!
You are forgiven! I don't hold you accountable for the sins of your "father"
Ah Ken Ham, the man who built a boat out of wood and 95 tons of modern steel, because it would collapse if it was built using period specific materials. Also the original plan was to have live animals on board the boat, but that was scrapped because it would take too many people to care for them.
Maybe he should have named the park The Ninth Commandment Encounter.
Also they couldn't properly vent the gases from so many creatures in a confined space.
or Noah's ironic Ark.
let alone provide food@@incardianify
Still hard to fathom ham collected 100 million dollars (let that roll on your tongue for awhile) to build half a boat on land with modern tools, materials and experts to prove a 900 year old guy in the iron age desert could have done it. Its just insane.
I wonder if Ken thinks 'Barbie ' is also a miserable sinner and how did Duck billed platypus make the 13000 mile journey to the Ark.
They die in salt water.
Hell yeah, Alex! Phenomenal content, as always!
Two things that I always wondered:
1. I wonder what kind of serpent it was before it was condemned to crawl on its belly.
2. I always find it interesting that God says "us" in the verse at the end: " The man has become like one of us knowing good and evil". Who was God talking to"?
Anyway, as always great video Alex. Thanks for the upload! Oh and, screw Ken Ham.
Edge-runner
He was talking to other gods.
Elohim is plural. It means god's. The bible is contradiction upon contradiction.
The Bible and especially Genesis, uses many symbolisms, metaphors and allegorical references. The "serpent" was representative of an adversary or evil that encountered and communicated with humans at some point in human history. This being "beguiled Eve" - persuading or attracting her for deceptive purposes. The talking serpent, was thus, a likely symbolic reference. I love your next question concerning the use of the word "US" - the plural form meaning more than one. This is found in not only Genesis 1:26 (like one of US) , but also Genesis 3:22 (man has become like one of US), with additional references in Psalm 89:5-8, Daniel 7: 9-14 ,Genesis 11:7 (“let US go down"), Psalm 82:1 (among the gods), Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 (sons of God), . Some believe this points to (1) a "divine council" - an assembly of lesser divine beings or figures, (2) Angels (3) the Trinity (4) reference to the formal names and attributes of God - i.e. Adonai, Elohim, El Shaddai,Jireh, Rapha, Nissi, Shalom, Tsidkenu, Shamah and others. There are other secondary references as well. Its critical to understand the linguistic context of the Old Tesament, words, concepts, ideas. Isaiah 40 - 45 presents what has been called “the trial of the gods”, where Yahweh presents himself as a distinct, sovereign and supreme entity, subject to no other entity. This “divine council” may be genuine agents of God who participate in carrying out God’s divine will in the universe. There is so much more to say but I will leave it alone for now.
Him and the snake. This “all powerful god” has an equal and separate power in existence.
it's important to remember that the bible is an anthology of ancient Hebrew myths, and many of them were from a time before they became monotheistic. There were originally multiple gods in their belief system, which they retconned into being one person. This is a big part of why god does so many contradictory things in the bible. it wasn't all originally the same character.
2. Great question. God is probably talking to Jesus/Holy Spirit. Plural language is used to describe God throughout the Old Testament (e.g. "Let us make man in our image" Genesis 1:26, "Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is One" Deuteronomy 6:4
"This is not the world as God made it" Ken ham comes out as a gnostic.
the more they grapple with cognitive dissonance, the more they come out the other side believing even harder and thinking they were just being tested - with physical realities that they see right before their eyes. and by being able to suppress it, their faith is considered stronger than ever
@@360.Tapestry Yep, it's part of the well-studied phenomenon psychologists call 'the backfire effect'.
Well said. I’ll add to it:
Did Adam and Eve even know what death meant to be afraid of it??
If they don’t know to be “ashamed” for being buck ass naked until eating from the tree to knowledge, why would they know what death meant? That’s hardly fair to enforce a consequence that lacks gravitas onto two innocent people
Which is why it has to be understood as allegory or myth, etc., not literal history. The text is written from the point of view of someone who already knows the outcome, right? "Poor things, they don't know what they're in for!" It could also be read as an allegory of each of us coming into awareness of what life is all about, including our mortality. Our innocence (Eden) is destroyed by our growing understanding of things like sex and death (expulsion). The problem remains as to how to explain why these things exist in the first place.
@@CleverMonkeyArt That’s one way to read it. A good and valid way. Innocence depreciates with knowledge and the truth hurts. It’s why so many people want to remain And there can be few different takeaways.
It’s interesting that God has a Tree of Life and Knowledge but not of Death. It almost to say that people should stay away from knowledge and truth. That knowledge and truth can be dangerous and lead to suffering.
God speaks to Adam but who tells Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit? Because God doesn’t speak to Eve until she does a naughty. This matters because if Adam told her, why should she just accept the gravitas of God’s related message? How does she know Adam isn’t lying? Is the lesson to give orders directly when there’s a huge consequence? Lol
The snake merely told the truth. Neither Adam nor Eve died. And they knew things as God did. Is the lesson that truth and knowledge are how you avoid psychopaths like God?
Another lesson is that women are the root of human suffering /s
@@AliciatheCho I would make a bold assumption that since Adam and Eve had no knowledge of anything before having a snack at the tree of good and evil they would also have no knowledge of lies and deceit. Eve would probably not consider Adam or God lying, as she would not imagine the snake's ulterior motives.
They did know because animals died. Even if Eve never saw an animal die Adam would have because he was there for a good while before Eve.
Yes good points
"For in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die."
According to Christianity, this is the first lie ever told. And it was told to Adam by God.
This analysis is simply briliant !!!
It's astonishing that we even have to entertain religion nowadays.
It blows my mind.
Everyone will always have to entertain religion because we all have one,no exceptions. thanks
@@joman388 No exceptions? 🤣
Stange that you say that, because I consider your god/religion,
the same way you consider other gods/religions. Unless you believe Jupiter is as good, or even Pazuzu. You're an atheist to thousands of gods/religions. I only believe in one less god/religion than you. Which is zero. There are literally MILLIONS of EXCEPTIONS throughout history.
So yeah, checkmate.
@@ArtemMalian Dummy.
Didn't you see my previous reply?
I believe in nothing, idiot.
@@ArtemMalianthat made 0 sense
@traegreenlee-dg4st What is lazy or just wrong is that everyone has a religion,atheists included as every one ascribes supreme importance to their lives,its just atheists ascribe that importance by what they want and that makes them god of their lives,even though there is zero evidence that any atheist created anything,its that terrible.
Religion;
A pursuit or interest that someone ascribes supreme importance .
Doesnt every one ascribe supreme importance to their lives,either by a outside belief or by what they themselves wish to believe,making themselves god of their lives? thanks
The idea of this world being the way it is because of Adam is comparable to putting a toddler in a nuke silo with a flashing red button within reach, walking out of the room, and then blaming the child when you're left in a wasteland
Lmao
People are choosing the things of the flesh instead of the things of the Spirit. Living for pleasure instead of living for God and His kingdom. Living for NOW instead of ETERNITY. The "NOW" is fleeting and doesn't last, the things of God will last FOREVER. What will you be doing a million years from now? Enjoying all God has prepared for those who love HIM? Or realizing you made the mistake of the ages, in failing to come to Jesus Christ? Repent (change your mind) of your sin and turn to Jesus today while there is still time.
@@Mike-qt7jp But we are flesh. All living things are flesh. All living things require "things of the flesh" to sustain "that flesh".
What are "things of the spirit"? Can I touch it? Measure it? Smell it? Or is this just an idea that someone invented in their mind?
Jesus said that time would run out before the last of his disciples died, so I wouldn't trust that warning too much.
Matthew 16 27, 28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
@@SilientShadow You do realize Jesus was then killed and resurrected. So what do you suppose happened when Jesus was resurrected? The Kingdom of God was already upon them according to Jesus. He demonstrated that in His resurrection.
@@paulpaul1802 "he will reward each person according to what they have done"
Are you suggesting that the "coming of the Son of Man" occurred with the resurrection? Then where was the judgement and reward for all people that was spoken of in those verses?
"We don't deserve to exist, we deserve nothing."
How can you build a solid moral framework if you believe humans deserve nothing? We don't deserve decency or happiness?
No humanist will ever say that people "deserve" something. We know that people need decency and happiness. The problem is that all religions are in the way of giving both to people. Religion is neither decent nor does it make people happy.
I wish you had titled this video "Problem with original sin" cause that's what I was searching for but couldn't find this video... I just stumbled on this video by going through your channel
Ham is blaming the victim. He wouldn't probably understand that concept either.
Christianity in general. The beings who didn't know good from evil did wrong while the being who set them up did right.
So he punished the snake by condemning his descendants to. . . being snakes? Why wouldn't the snake's descendants be snakes?
According to Genesis it wasn't just any snake. It could talk, it could reason, it could walk. So all that is taken away and his descendent are punished by making them slither in the dust, never to be trusted by humans again.
@@pinky9440 Its a real shame Genesis didn't have illustrations. I'd have loved to have seen a snake with fully functional legs, a massive brain capable of reason, a fully developed mouth, tongue and voice box capable of human speech...
Also, was it the only snake? Presumably not, because we establish that childbirth is already a thing... So are there other snakes? And they can all walk? But then it's not just this snake that was punished, but all other snakes were similarly punished... But if it's the only snake, then did God make another snake to breed with this snake?
There are SO MANY questions, and this is book 1 chapter 1... There is so much more to come... I don't know how this book series convinced the publisher to release a second volume.
Adam and Eve were parselmouths.
Snake had legs.
Now it does not.
No snakes had wings in old Myths
I rarely subscribe. But you sir have another. Im recommending this channel highly.
You are one of very few to explain, with knowledge the corrupt speaking words of this dangerous mans indoctrination, especially our children.
Thank you
I once asked a good friend and seemingly great guy who was religious why we are mostly well fed in modern countries and so many children perish horribly from starvation in 3rd world areas. "They are just here to test us" he said. How disgusting. Most pompous crap I've ever heard.
As a Zoroastrian, I thank you! I fucking HATE answers in genesis, because they make absolutely hateful and slanderous articles on other religions where they presuppose Christian theology. For example, they lied about Zoroastrian theology several times in their article on Zoroastrianism.
we should teach zoroastrianism in schools, much like we learn about the greeks and the roman’s, along with the other ancient cultures, they’d be able to draw a whole lot of parallels….
@@FakeAccount-What do you mean? Also, we are not ashamed of the fact that we are an offshoot of hinduism.
@@TheMilitantMazdakite i’m just saying we should teach more ancient religions and cultures so people can see the links between them is all, it’s fascinating
better than math lol.
@@FakeAccount- We all know you secretly love fractions and derivatives. Ya don't gotta hide it.
@@FakeAccount- Yeah, my conversion to Zoroastrianism is, in fact, what inspired my fascination with anthropology in the first place.
There's that pesky problem when you try to interject reason into religion...one of them falls apart. Guess which one?
Um, let me guess. Reason? No? Can I have another gguess Um, reason? No? A third guess.
Not true religion, which is to: Look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep yourself from being polluted by the world's corrupt ways.
People love to throw zingers out there that they think say something… but the emptiness is simply masked by the sarcasm and snark. This from people claiming to be the smarter, logical, and well reasoned party.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 Other people make the implication that the person throwing the "zinger" must actually be sad and unhappy otherwise they wouldn't be doing so when in actuality the implication is hollow.
@@jltrem correct. Thus your zinger that “injecting reason into religion is a failure” is not only hollow, but evidence that you are sad and unhappy.
Thank you young man. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️👊🏼❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
That analogy of the electrician was wow 🎤 drop!! Wow!
Fun fact: The expression 'to eat dust' is an idiom. It means 'to be dead.' In the epic poem Gilgamesh, when Gilgamesh summons his dead friend Enkidu from the Underworld and asks him "What are you doing?', Enkidu answers: I'm eating dust I. e., I'm being dead.
Funny now that it means to be overtaken in a race.
So since the fall, all snakes are being dead?
@@nkyfong. Intresting. However in the biblical text it was inherited over from the older Sumer epic poems and translated into English, and other languages in this form. This knowledge owes to the late Michael S. Heiser, an expert, among other things, on cuneifotm writing.
WTF? So the serpent is cursed to crawl upon its belly and "be dead" for the rest of its life? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
@@rboland2173, hence why Adam and Eve is better as a really poetic allegory instead of world history. I'm starting to be a theist again, and even I know that.
Wow, you’re so witty, articulated and interesting to listen to… I’m glad that I’ve discovered you…
What I like about Alex is his ability to think critically and his willingness to apply himself to research instead of leaning too heavily upon his own bias. Although, there is evidence to suggest that a majority of us, whether religious or not, do rest too heavily upon our own bias, and display a general unwillingness to question our most guarded assumptions. Regardless, at this point in time, at least, people like Alex give me hope. I find what he has to say here, thought-provoking and encouraging, and will consider subscribing to his channel.
I like the part in "Inherit the Wind" when the lawyer reads from the bible, "Cain knew his wife" and then asks where Mrs. Cain came from. Did someone pull off another creation in the next county?
They inter married. So easy to explain...
@@dulls8475 - He married his sister? How ungodly. The church never seems to want to talk about that. We are all inbred, then.
@@jerometaperman7102 Someone did. Did you know that genetic mutations are accumulating? How do you mean the Church does not want to talk about it? You just got an answer from me who goes to church. Why are people so stupid they cant work out that it was between relatives?
@@jerometaperman7102 This was early in the genetic chain before it was getting mutations. Leviticus 18:9 is where it became against the Mosaic law. Adam married his XX clone (she was taken from his side).
@@philwelch3106 Early in the genetic chain was single-celled life, not primates with ERV insertions that conveniently match those of other primates.
Such rational and well thought out arguments Alex. Ken Ham is a toddler in a university.
Alex made some major errors... and misunderstands Ham's premise from the outset.
You people will make up anything to pretend he isn't just literally repeating the same lazy atheist arguments from "God is Dead"
@@youtubeisevil7487 I loved that movie ...it was so wholesome.
@@dejuren1367 ….anyway
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922
So explain what Alex misunderstood
God - Don't eat from that tree I have predestined for you to eat. Oh, they ate from the tree I predestined them to eat. Now I have to punish them for what I planned to occur. LOL.
Yes,That's true,But knot a slap at God. Every ting is predestined buy God bee cause it's eternal. Similar two a video game developer,De end ding is isle red de create Ted,But de characters are playing threw de store rie.
@@iwkaoy8758 But you can't then assume god is all good if he's all knowing, because he knew it was all gonna happen, yet acted angry and punished his creation for it. And if he knew it was gonna happen, and sin would be created, and was all good, wouldn't he prevent it? Either he planned for sin to occur and he's not all good, or he is all good but not all powerful because that would explain why he didn't stop something so obviously bad as sin coming into the world.
By your logic here, he planned it and we're just playing his story, like w game developer. Which means he planned for sin, and planned for the eternal torture of his creations for things they're destined to do because he decided they would sin.
@@ahloemeopj9111 God never claimed two bee isle good. That's market ting four preachers. God did ant stop it bee cause he made de world four hisses chosen,knot isle pea pole.
God sent dim threw de fire,So day Ken a pre she ate heaven. If Their is ant inn knee proverty ,You wood ant no ore a pre she ate wealth.
Wood you care a bot your family ore friends, If their were know worries? Wood you enjoy a full stomach, if their was no starvation? Wood you a pre she ate life, if their is ant inn knee death? Wood you strive two two create ore make your life better, if every ting was perfect? De ting you ca11 bad are de tings make king you enjoy life. Tri inn two escape de bad four de good make life worth living. God use bad and good four good.
De none chosen won't bee tortured four ever,day wheel cease two exist. That should ant bee a problem four dim bee cause day won't know ting two dew width God inn knee way. He gave dim de changes two experiences life,But day are pons inn hisses store rie create Ted four de chosen. Hisses chosen are de main characters,but de rest are background characters. Day play their roll and leave Wendy movie is over. De great movie ca11 life is a performance four de chosen,but indie end, day wheel isle 👏👏👏👏👏
the game was rigged from the start.
@@ahloemeopj9111 yes thats the logically fallacy. How can god being perfect create an imperfect system where sin can exist at all? Its an inherent paradox.
excellent video alex. thanks
Alex, you're brilliant. I dont know how you take to compliments knowing that you are indeed a humble guy really looking for what the truth is. Keep on on your journey, i'm sure you'll eventually get the bottom of things, at least I think I have to some degree. Also im sure you;ll have greater joy talking to the likes of Pageau and Inspiring philosophy. they can answer your questions on christianity. our belief exists in degrees of depth, your mind cant be sustained by a simplistic version of chrisianity so id encourage you get to the crux of things by talking to people who think like you. particularly christians who think like you, or atleast on your level. this i doubt will do much for you.
that disclaimer at the end that you don't let Ken Ham's views represent all of Christianity is why I watch this excellentttttt channel
The genesis story is basically a parent putting a gun in the midst of a baby's toys and then punishing the baby for accidentally killing someone.
Not hardly, as Adam and Eve understood who God was and what God did for them yet disobeyed His only command. Can you understand that? Its called free will as God did not want folks to worship Himself without their desire to do so.Would you like robots to worship you? thanks
Who create free Will?
@@joman388free will. I love the idea, but even a moment spent in thought shows free will to be completely incompatible with the idea that god has a plan for us all and that everything is in its plan. If all my choices are in its plan, I have no free will. If I have free will, my choices cannot be part of your dogs plan.
@@mattsadventureswithart5764 God has two wills ,His permissive will and His direct will.His direct will will not be broken ,ever. His permissive will is what He allows to happen,even thought He disagrees.That will is ours to choose Him or not. God never planed for anyone to sin,even though He knew they would.Just because someone knows what you are going to do means nothing,because you have no knowledge of what they know,none.
You know yourself you can choose things in life,let there be no doubt,that is whyb the law holds folks responsible,even though God knows exactly what they will do. Do you think folks should not be held accountable for breaking the law,since in your idea they cant help it, no one should ever be corrected? thanks
@@mattsadventureswithart5764 You are dead in your sins. Only God can make you alive.
Best talking points yet!
Original sin was the first prank gone wrong.
I remember as a child working out the "logic" of being punished for committing an "evil" (sinful) act when Eve didn’t know the difference between good and evil. I asked my Sunday School teacher that question. She had no idea how to respond; it was obvious she had never given that idea any thought before. Maybe I helped to plant the seeds of atheism in her that day…
Not only were they punished but punished SEVERELY and for all eternity. That's like threatening your child with time-out if they do something bad. (without them even knowing what time-out is) Then when they do the thing, you decide instead of putting them in time-out, you cut off one of their arms then kick them out on the street.
"Seed of atheism", heh
Man, I hate when theists do this, they think that planting a seed is all it takes to grow a tree and consider it their win.
There's a reason why 'blind' and 'faith' are often used together.
What an advanced little kidy you were. Your the second extremely clever child on here. I went to Sunday school and I cant remember as much as atheists on here seem to. I think I was thinking about food and how long it was to go before I got to go and play outside.
@@dulls8475 Yeah, that story did feel a bit too advanced to be true.
It's frightening to me just how much sense Alex makes, but that I would have summarily dismissed him a couple years ago in favor of Mr. Ham
Cognitive dissonance will do that to you.
So now you're responding to someone who responded to one of your clips. Fascinating!
What species of snake? Would a gopher snake be punished for the offense of a boa? Also, if snakes are supposed to crawl on their bellies and eat dust, why are so many arboreal, aquatic, or marine, and none eat dirt?
I am now 64. I was brought up in a strict fundamentalist Christian home. Quite early on in my teens, I began to question the validity of Christianity as well as all religions. The older I get the more atheist I am becoming. ie...I still cling to agnosticism in the sense that Dawkins does (there may be a .000001% chance God does exist). I now am concluding that this simply boils down to the smarter, curious, rational people vs. the stupid, incurious, gullible people. The emotionally brave vs the emotionally cowardly (who need a God father figure and assurance they will not actually die). Sorry if that sounds arrogant, but that is what I've learned. And its rather depressing because that means the planet will probably never be rid of the scourge of religion
religion isn't evil, culture takes religion and uses it for evil. It's no good at explaining the world, but it can (annoyingly rarely) be a good moral guide
There is a subset of the population that viscerally needs what a absolutist religion offers. These people need simple answers to complex questions, they are confused by nuance and like assertions to be definitive. Evangelical versions of faith are the only ones growing because they super serve the 30% of the population who craves self importance to give them the sense of superiority at the heart of the evangelical appeal.
Dawkins is in no way agnostic , he just understands that science will never be able to debunk the existance of god , since apparently he lives outside space/time .
Its no different from not being able to debunk pink unicorns .
@@sharper68 - Agree, but go further and include Agnostics and Atheists who find "religion" in Environmental-ism, Woke-ism, Authoritarian-ism, Totalitarian-ism as their Cult of the Day. Similar penchant for simplistic takes on complex issues, lies/ends-justify-the-means, corrosive spirit of superiority as being THE ones who are right and good VS those who disagree who obviously in their eyes are evil.
@@sharper68greatly put my friend, exactly what I wanted to comment
@Alex O'Connor
Wear Ken Hams disagreement as a badge of honor.
😂 Nice one.
"There are men whose enmity is a compliment"
Brilliant. This guy is awesome.
I think of people raised only nominally Christian or even just exposed to a few ideas, and how at an early age they have this idea of God where they have to say “I’m unworthy, deserve nothing, deserve this life of suffering on the path to god”. How pathological, and damaging for anyone with an ounce of sensitivity
When I was about 15, one of our gang in the Baptist church we attended, went to the Minister of Education to ask a question. As I recall, it had to do with how Cain found a wife. Now our Minister (who was a good guy and whom we all liked) replied that Genesis up to the flood should be regarded as allegorical. It was only with the flood that it became historical. I realized at the time that that answer would undermine the doctrine of Original Sin. I didn't really mind. I didn't believe in it anyway.
You were told incorrect information. There were no problems with birth defects back to Adam and Eve. Even up to Noah there wasn't enough time for genetic degradation. Cain married one of his sisters.
But many do believe it.
Pre-Adamite theory would have been a much better response to that issue/query. Furthermore, Cain did not just find a wife, he also founded an entire city, and had 5 generations of children,all before any of his siblings had been born. Adam being a real figure would mean that some people today would not be able to receive salvation due to not being related to him (and therefore not being human). This is probably why many Christians try to shy away from answering such “issues” by just copping out with “allegory”.
@@greghelton4668I don’t know what can be done about self-haters.
@@spolyspoly Adam and Eve had other children. Cain married one of his sisters. He did have other siblings at that time. There is no issue.
Ken Ham makes it sound suspiciously like an abusive relationship. He's not even trying to hide it.
"G.K. Chesterton said that even those who reject the doctrine of the Incarnation (like the Pharisees) are different for having heard it. The claim that God became one of us changes the imagination, compelling a reassessment of both God and the world. This odd assertion is made, implicitly or explicitly, on practically every page of the New Testament."
Bishop Robert Barron "Daily Gospel Reflection (01/12/24)"
13:00 I'll admit, this is very thought provoking. Yes, you have two ways to read the book of Genesis, and specifically the first 3 chapters, either literal or metaphorical. I can see either as accurate interpretations. But which is the truth? I don't think anyone will ever get a bullseye on it, nor do I think it is absolutely necessary. Though I think reading all the Scriptures in context is key.
The longer I’m free from Christianity, the harder it is to be patient and not become infuriated with Ken Ham and those of his ilk.
So you are now bound to Atheism… bad deal.
@@SilverSurfer5150 But is it really?
You should not not be infuriated with KH.
@@SilverSurfer5150😂
@@L-8 Atheism a bad deal? 100%.
I love how Alex actually gives Ken a way out if he just accepts (like every normal christian) that genesis can be interpreted allegorically
I like how Alex had every way available to him to refute Ham’s actual position, and use firm grounding in logic to do so…. and instead strawmanned the guy everyone said is so “dumb.” But he knew is audience would lap up any red meat he threw them without thinking too much.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922What's the supposed strawman here?
@@JivanPal Supposed? Doesn’t sound like a good faith question. Am I wasting my time to elaborate? I know Alex assumes his audience just eats up the red meat like the good little lap dogs they are - thus a multitude of fallacies can effortlessly fly under the radar. We ALL know that when an atheist skeptic claims skepticism, they only mean towards things they already disbelieve - thus the skepticism is merely a tool of mockery and dissent.. a weapon against an already opposed idea… rather than the tool of real, true skepticism - wielded against your OWN preconceived notions and ideas… as those are when skepticism aids you the most.
Anyway… I can outline a few of his simplest and earliest fallacies. But I don’t enjoy wasting my time.
Is this a real question? Are you actually curious?
Or does the use of the word “suppose” predict your dismissiveness?
You "like" that? Apparently you didn't, you meant that ironically, but your comment is therefore confusing.@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922
Except these fundamentalist Christians believe that if you don't believe in the literal accuracy of the Bible, you aren't a "true Christian" and are still on your way to the fiery pit. It's ironic how they claim that God has given everyone the means for salvation, but they continue to make the group who has the correct criteria smaller and smaller.... less than 10% of the population in the US would fall into that category of Christian, even though 70% identify as Christian.
I love the fact that you are stepping into these areas. Every single angle has been covered generally though… I say this as an almost priest (bullet dodged), excommunicated Brethren child and, estranged son of a militant preacher.
Tremendous. Would love to see more Bible investigation.
I have to say that I went to a homeschooling presentation once (many years ago) where Ken Ham was one of the speakers. Even then, I was appalled by his narrowminded way of looking at things. I am, at the very least, an old world creationist. He thinks people who believe in evolution are going straight to hell. He told all those kids in the audience that. I just shook my head in disgust.
Was that the same speech where he asked the crowd of children if they have to trust god or scientists they should trust god?
I'm an atheist and grateful to be able to live free from the constraints and dogmatic thinking of the Catholic church and school education.
Long ago as a boy I felt strongly that the Creation story was wrong somehow to both Adam and Eve. Years later I was joking around with a religious friend and I said ' I honestly can't help but feel that it was a setup by God ' and that if I were a believer that would make sense.
Please give the athiest view of why good and evil exist.
Ken Ham is a simple guy. Really not to be taken too seriously.
Great video, Alex. Just one point I'd like to make: Within Judaic commentaries on Genesis, you'll find an interesting way to reconcile the problems you brought up regarding evil existing prior to the original sin, and in what capacity it then morphed into after the sin. Prior to the sin, evil, or as the commentators define it, the "evil inclination", was not a part of of Adam and Eve, but rather integrated into the serpent as a separate entity, thus giving Adam and Eve the opportunity to interact with an evil thought, but understand innately that it isn't coming from them, but from something else, and ultimately showing them that their own nature seeks good. After eating of the fruit of the tree, the evil inclination was set within human beings themselves for all eternity, alongside the good inclination, thus making the choice between good and evil an internal conflict, and much harder to decide upon.
This is simply an interesting way to understand the story within Genesis. I happen to personally believe that it is all allegorical and not an actual historical event.
The Bible and especially Genesis, uses many symbolisms, metaphors and allegorical references. The "serpent" was representative of an adversary or evil that encountered and communicated with humans at some point in human history. This being "beguiled Eve" - persuading or attracting her for deceptive purposes. The talking serpent, was thus, a likely symbolic reference. I love your next question concerning the use of the word "US" - the plural form meaning more than one. This is found in not only Genesis 1:26 (like one of US) , but also Genesis 3:22 (man has become like one of US), with additional references in Psalm 89:5-8, Daniel 7: 9-14 ,Genesis 11:7 (“let US go down"), Psalm 82:1 (among the gods), Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 (sons of God), . Some believe this points to (1) a "divine council" - an assembly of lesser divine beings or figures, (2) Angels (3) the Trinity (4) reference to the formal names and attributes of God - i.e. Adonai, Elohim, El Shaddai,Jireh, Rapha, Nissi, Shalom, Tsidkenu, Shamah and others. There are other secondary references as well. Its critical to understand the linguistic context of the Old Tesament, words, concepts, ideas. Isaiah 40 - 45 presents what has been called “the trial of the gods”, where Yahweh presents himself as a distinct, sovereign and supreme entity, subject to no other entity. This “divine council” may be genuine agents of God who participate in carrying out God’s divine will in the universe. There is so much more to say but I will leave it alone for now.
Thank you for these videos Alex, I've only recently discovered your channel. I very much enjoy watching them and hearing your learned views, thanks.
Having been raised Christian, I’ve always found it hard to believe the Adam and Eve story as a literal part of history. And this video puts into words what I’ve always thought of but have never been able to articulate so eloquently
Adam and Eve's kids would have had to bang each other. Genetic deformities would have mangled them within a couple generations
Well he's wrong on almost everything and misquotes scripture so you should study it yourself. Not go by someone that doesn't understand God or scripture.
Genesis 1-3 (at least) was not written literally as a historical account. Interpreting it from a Jewish perspective makes a lot more sense and, I would argue, makes you a better reader of Scripture.
@@MrLaughingcorpsedude shut up, watch the video again😂
@@ethanhaskins6634 He's reading from a different translation. God told Adam he will surely die. Not drop dead on the spot. The Hebrew meaning is he will eventually die. Lucifer and the angels were a separate creation from the earth and the fall of the angels did not happen until after God said everything was good and stopped creating on day 7. Also feeling pain is an essential part of the function of the human body, not something evil or bad. The video author isn't even thinking logically.
Why is the Fruit of Knowledge about Adam and Eve becoming conscious and realising the difference between good and evil knowing what being naked is so God had to create a world where Adam and Eve now can use their new learned skill. Why does that not work?
It’s free will , where we punish , ourselves by knowing .
I ran the numbers and found out there’s about a 0.00342% chance that Ken will engage honestly in this conversation, if it all.
Those are better odds then abiogenesis happening by chance.
@@blusheep2 Well it’s too bad there’s only one Ken to try and meet the odds hey? The universe has no issue with small percentages, because it is incomprehensibly large.
@@JesseDriftwood yes, lol.
_The universe has no issue with small percentages, because it is incomprehensibly large._
I don't think you understand the overwhelming chances against life by chance. A large universe with the 15 billion years doesn't even approach it.
@@blusheep2damn, guess I'm not alive :*(
@@SuperGoodMush That means nothing. We aren't talking about the possibility of existing. We are talking about the means by which that existence came about. "I exist so it must have happened" is nothing more then assuming the conclusion that chance caused it.
As a Theist, Ken Ham's argument is one of the most fallacy ridden arguments against the problem of evil.
Yes I’m a Christian I have to agree with you. He doesn’t speak for the majority of Christians
It would be more accurate to say that Genesis, when taken as the actual Word of God, fails to provide a compelling, logically sound answer to the problem of evil.
Leibniz’s “best of all possible worlds” is more sophisticated, but it’s difficult to square with the Bible when taken as more than God’s meandering literary debut.
The “solutions” on offer from moderates only serve to remind us that the only thing crazier than fundamentalism is lying about the Word of God in order to deny the integrity of your own mind.
As a Theist, Ken Ham's argument is very logical. And I agree with him. It's a very standard reading of the Bible. And it's backed up by lots of evidence, hidden in plain sight to many secularists.
So enlighten us; what are some of his fallacies?
@@malgrosskreuz01it really doesn't make a difference your nonsensical beliefs have a impact and you supposed moderates provide a shield for the extremists that cause these things. You also sit idly by while your religious doctrine is put into law because it's convenient for you.
1. An increase to physical or emotional pain does not constitute that there was (a little) pain already present within the garden.
0= no pain
1 = Pain
This is an increase of pain.
If you were to hold your hand on a stove and I turned it on. The temperature goes from 0, no pain, to lots of pain.
4:13 Ham: "We don't even deserve to exist: I mean, we deserve nothing, because we and Adam sinned against a holy god. But He allows us to exist."
So He allows undeserved things to happen-and that's supposed to be justice? Aren't deserts and justice supposed to be the same thing?