The Alternative Prime Minister - Panorama
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- The Alternative Prime Minister - Panorama - Monday 11 July 1977.
A discussion chaired by current affairs and political programmes commenter and presenter, David Dimbleby, joined by representatives of the press; Mary Goldring, an economic journalist, Peter Jenkins of The Guardian, and Anthony Shrimsley, assistant editor of the Sun, with the Leader of the Opposition, Conservative leader Margaret Thatcher, in which she outlines the policies she hopes will win her party the next general election.
Key words:
Grunwick dispute, pickets, trade unionists, TUC, Trades Union Congress, Unions, Parliamentary Democracy, Parliamentary System, Law, Disputes, Acas, The Industrial Relations Act 1971, Conservative Trade Unionists (CTU), minority interest, Trade Unionism, Jack Jones, Jack Jones (trade unionist), Labour Party, Labour Party Executive, Workers, Social Contract, Standard of Living, Taxation, Earnings, Prices, Industrial Workers, Economy, Expansion of the British Economy, City of London, Corporate State, Industry, Free Enterprise, Left Wingers, Socialism, James Callaghan, Jim Callaghan, Lib-Lab coalition, Lib-Lab pact, Social Democratic, Extreme left, Extreme left wingers, Trotskyites, Tribune Group, Entryism, State ownership, Income, Communism, Michael Foot, Winston Churchill, Chancellor of the Exchequer Rab Butler
Unemployment
Subsidiaries
Believe
Compromise
Incentives
Schools
Choice
Printing Money
Inflation
North Sea oil
Like the calm and firm way she handles the questions - a very strong woman and she displayed her leadership qualities.
What I admire about her is that she is outnumbered on a hostile panel but she is more than capable of holding her own. She was always willing to go against conventional wisdom if she thought it was wrong.
That was her thing. If a question was asked she answered it and did not let anyone stop her finishing her answer.
She also loved being pressured an argument like this one. She was one of few PMs to love PMQs, because it forced her to know the facts.
They were not "hostile" - they were simply doing their job as journalists.
This is how a real and honest discussion of issues between a politician and journalists who ask hard and tough questions is conducted...outstanding session...this is what is missing these days.
I think exactly the same. I can’t help myself from coming back to thatchers interviews. She’s remarkable. Love her or hate her you cannot deny that this woman worked her socks off for this country.
Exactly this. All of these now old Panorama episodes are gems...Just so high class, high VALUE listening to this.
I’ve always admired her standing her ground, well spoken, never fumbling but direct.
excellent, a well briefed and sharp woman
My first vote at the age of 18 in 1979 was for the Conservative party because of Margaret Thatcher.
She was the epitome of a strong woman and was so right.
Snap!
Such clarity, such wisdom. Articulate, calm and yet so strong. She meant what she said and she said what she meant.
She wiped the floor with them - what a woman
Hero worship of any politician of any persuasion is very unwise. They are all human and therefore all very flawed. Thatcher was no exception.
This is an incredible woman!
Baroness Thatcher is what we need today!! Covid would have been to scared to come here! God rest her soul 🙏🇬🇧❤
Propaganda
A true woman of steel. Look at her, no problem taking on a whole panel one by one. Took no shite from anyone
Especially when they try to put words in her mouth
Marvellous stuff. This should be mandatory viewing for all kids in school, and everyone who supports Labour. This lady build the strong UK that we have today.
Every country need a lider like Margaret Hilda Thatcher
Marvellous propagandists you blokes are.
Well that comment didn't age well did it.
This woman, with her convictions and laser focus, saved Britain.
Crap !!! Evil , arrogant disgusting woman . Could'nt care a toss about ordinary people . All about her wealthy tory money grabbing pals . Detestable individual.
You’re a Fucking idiot man. You sexist pig of a man saying never hire a woman to do a mans job. You lefty uneconomical minded imbeciles have not the slightest clue just how much she saved Britain.
You’re pathetic industry was dying on the world stage and she forced the productivity back up to make the UK competitive and desirable on the world market.
Without her forcing this change in how you’re industries produced your country would of fallen further into disarray.
The UK was an utter embarrassment of industry being dominated by the USA, Germany and Japan.
You kept open horrible economic burdening pits and industry just to secure jobs that barely paid a living wage.
Job loss was a necessity of automation and efficiency. And I fear as robotics gets better we will face the very same challenges she did with the lose of a lot of jobs to more efficient robotics and automation.
You clearly have not the slightest clue of obsolete jobs and the need to remain compatible in production.
@@stuartgallagher186 all you need do is look at Labour and you will see that. Not Thatcher.
Saved Britain ? Only thing that disgusting horror of a woman did was look after her own kind and created her " heir" apparent Blair . Starmer is next to carry the mantle forward.
Margaret Thatcher, in this stage of her career, shows a very sharp, highly intelligent mind, never at a loss to give a precise answer to all the issues brought before her. Absolutely formidable as a lady and politician.
I can only see good clear sense in her delivery and she would have most definately won me over.
Unpopular opinion but I think she was one of the greatest prime ministers this country has ever had.
She did what she knew would make her unpopular if she knew in her heart that it was right
Yep... she was a true LEADER ! sadly we do not have such quality people anymore....
Like all humans she is flawed. She might have thought everything she did was right, but that's not how history will judge it. She wasn't all evil. But she did make mistakes and lets be real about that.
It did not make her unpopular. She was elected 3 times.
There is certainly a lot of noise about how awful she was but the elections are a true measure.
@@Hereford1642she was never personally popular. It's worth noting that the conservative party vote declined sharply in 1983 and again in 1987, but the oddities of first past the post delivered a huge majority in both elections. Like most politicians who stay in power for a long time, she was very lucky in their timing. Margaret Thatcher won elections in an era when the Labour Party was in a state of disintegration. Much the same can be said of Tony Blair in the 90s. He also won huge majorities in no small part because his opposition, The Conservatives, were then in a terrible state. I think we will see the same with Keir Starmer in the 2024 election. He will be much like Margaret Thatcher - winning a huge majority because the Conservatives are in a shambolic mess, but not personally popular.
Don’t you wish politics was like this today? Not a bunch of attention-grabbing, power-hungry individuals, but people who were thoughtful, intelligent and well-informed. Even moderators did their job, ask an actual question for an actual response, not for a sound bite or to be in the spotlight for 10 seconds.
Mrs. Thatcher knew every corner of governance...She’s The Lady with A Brilliant Mind.
Was there ever a less neutral "presenter" than the BBC's Dimbleby. What an extraordinary performance, the unelected spokesman of a comfortable, disconnected, prejudiced elite - and he was allowed to carry on like this for nearly another 50 years!
A true leader and we were so lucky to have had 11 years of her in power. The 1980s were Britons golden years.
Amazing how you relate golden years with the destruction of everything britain stood for.
Yeh, the golden years. All the miners laid off and subsidised by the nations oil wealth whist they collected dole instead of being in work. Meanwhile we buy coal at a slightly lower price from Poland.
Now we are 1.4 trillion in debt and the oil revenues are dropping.
Some say 'Good old Maggie', others tell the truth!
Yes, Yes in deed, ***** Man.
She destroyed The british economy, For a Few years in power.
+Tar Man Also Tar man you might be interested to know I pay a full 22% LESS for my Gas and Electricity now IN REAL TERMS than I did a full 30 yrs agoThanks to competition . As a former Tariff surveyor for one of the nationalised electricity boards I can be certain of my facts .
+scabbycat cat You want facts ? Here are facts.
She supported Apartheid.
She supported Pinochet's murderous dictature.
She covered, supported and knighted her pedophile friends.
She opposed gay rights and did nothing for women.
She promoted greed and selfishness.
She had nothing but disdain towards the lower classes.
She destroyed Scotland's, Ireland and Wales economies.
She destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives.
She ended being sacked on the poll tax, in which she decreted that the poor had to pay the same taxes as the rich, but by headcount, making the poor pay effectively more taxes than the rich.
Regardless of your views about Thatcher, this is a remarkably thorough discussion about what was to come under her premiership.
I wish we in the United States would have political programs of this quality involving deep discussions about fundamental philosophies of governance, economics, and values.
There's no need, both parties agree on almost all fundamentals and is if the establishment is going to give third or fourth parties a voice.
bailorg we in the UK no longer have programmes of this quality. British television has dumbed down like the rest of the world.
alijanlondon sound bite politics now exibhit a Strong and Stable leadership. A coalition of chaos. Education education education etc
You are asking for too much. America is too busy serving capitalism. Material gain, multiple jobs & income, who has time for intellectual 'thorough' discussions? It defeats the purpose. We are all about Who is in & Who is out. The Kardashians are in if you wish to know. Nevertheless, Margaret Thatcher is a formidable personality. In a way she is like Trump in ideals, but she is a fox in handling public relations, because of her mental acumen, an edge sharper than Trump. No pub intended.
@@tonyausten2168 America abandoned capitalism decades ago, under Clinton. We have cronyism and under Biden it’ll get far worse.
Maggie was brilliant. Like Reagan she did not take crap from anyone.
Thatcher could wipe the floor with Reagan. He had beliefs but read them off of 3x5 cards. She actually *knew* the details.
Wow! The Iron Lady was truly remarkable. We need more politicians like her today in my country..Canada. How lucky you Brits were and some of you didn’t even know it. What a shame when one reads the cruel comments about her prime ministership. I’ve never heard or seen a politician as sharp and intelligent as the Iron Lady. You ought to be proud or would you have preferred someone like Trump? History will be kind! God bless you Maggie for leading your country and your people with all the knowledge ,determination,skill, strength one should have when entering politics. Unfortunately we probably would never see one like her again. Sad! Rip Iron Lady. You did well. You did exceptionally well.
i wish she,could come back and sort the country out / the world
Say what you want about Thatcher but she turned a country that was a joke into a success, yes a lot of people were hurt along the way, but you cannot argue with the facts, a country that in 1979 had huge debts, nobody would lend it a penny, by 1989 it had surpluses, and was in the position to lend to others.
+mty1 to you consider the living , working and social positions of human beings collateral damage under harsh conservative politics? because if you do, you support government bought and paid for by the interest of the most powerful, those who possess the mass majority of money and banking, and the controlled interest of business at the cost of human beings not of their own. deplorable to think we still argue in support of a free market, and it's the economic slavery of the mass majority of the poor and working class. disgraceful. and i am an American who is disgusted with the conservatives here as well.
***** there is an ugly phrase used to really illustrate what needs to be done, and no one is willing to admit it, or take initiatives to openly support it. it is WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION. it can be done by taxation from those who can afford it, and investment into work programs for the poor and under middle classes. it can be added into welfare state programs that assist the least of our citizens. i know it seems unfair to those who have made a success of their lives, financially and socially. but the chief goal is to lift people out of poverty, and into a self sufficient existence. to achieve this, on a larger level, there must be money taken from those with the most, and invest that money into works programs. i would much rather investment into works programs, than have any human reliant on hand outs from the state. it is demoralizing to be on assistance, and work is a moral sense of purpose for all humans.
+mty1 Yes, had she been prime minister for just one year, she'd have done a much needed job. Nothing she did subsequently was of value to any but the most privileged in society. In the final analysis she was a complete abomination. So don't sound too smug please.
+mty1 Say what you like about Thatcher... The fucking bitch is dead and that all that matters about her. I'm sure she is now somewhere not so very far away from Hitler's final unresting place.
+bduhe219 No poor man or poor woman ever received a job from another poor man or poor woman, only from a wealthier person who required their labor or services and was willing to pay for such. Also, government has its own form of "economic slavery," convincing persons like yourself it will "take care of them" and that it cares about such notions as "equality." In reality, the political left would never wish equality or full employment, lest it lose its constituency of the perpetually (and psycho-pathologically?) angry and miserable.
Her comments on education are spot on!!!!
The reason why you think so is because you dont have an impartial education
My God! What a formidable lady she was!
"I wanted to know what it was like to go through those picket lines on the bus, so I sent my PPS". Very brave of you ma'am.
I mean... glad sb noticed!
Maggie was awesome. Simply the best of British. A true Patriot.
Incredible insightful footage into all the the basis of the Thatcher post 1979 economic strategy - very interesting dialogue into how she wouldn't falter under the pressure of unpopular public opinion and high unemployment in the manner of Heath et al. Exactly what happened in 1980/1981. And in defiance of all previous weaker leaders the Lady was courageously and uniquely Not For Turning.
We love her still......
Britain on the threshold. Love or loathe her, it's a fascinating bit of archive - irrespective of the desirability; seems they were struggling to comprehend the feasability of enacting such radical economic restructuring.
The policies are radical to any decent person but a must for plutocrat interests and their families.
LOVE YOU MAGGIE !! THE BEST OF THE BEST...RIP !! THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME IN MY LIFE
" If you aspire to be the leader of this great nation - this above all other things - to your own self be true "
Margaret Thatchers economic policies should be studied to ensure they are practiced accurately and more widely.
I'm here for the panorama music.
It's based on a song called Aujourd'hui C'est Toi' by Francis Lai.
The theme song previous to this was Rachmaninoff's First Symphony - Fourth Movement.
This is so timely, now in 2020 in the U.S.
@@ingefossen8499 I'm unclear what your point is. I like Thatcher's approach and wish we had our own Maggie here in the U.S.
I love Mrs Thatcher. I wish they had cloned her so that she could be Prime Minister forever and ever.
Cultist.
It's clear to see from what the people around the table are saying that the unions had far too much power. The tail was wagging the dog. Maggie changed that.
I wasn't a fan of Margaret Thatcher but looking back she was the best Prime Minister that we ever had. All we've had since in number 10 are,a bunch of money hungry fools. I didn't realise back then but the Conservative party were actually very caring. The Conservative Party today have lost that sense of caring but all political parties are the same all they are interested in is lining their own pockets. When Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister Britains Economy was is a real mess that was due to Labour party and their crazy ideas they basically bankrupted Britain and thank God the Conservative Party had enough sense to vote Margaret Thatcher as their leader because at that time she is just what Britain needed. Britain fell into a deep recession that wasn't caused by the Conservative Party but they were the Party that made Britain great again
Fantastic woman. The only politician I've seen with the trousers to say that she needed to do some stuff that would hurt and then deliver on her promises. Everyone after her rode on the wave she created right up until now but the wave has died. We need another Maggie right now.
God. Today, all we’d get is stupid gotcha questions and load of cliché and unsubstantiated waffle from vastly inferior politicians. Thatcher showed leadership, was in total command of her brief, knew her sharply focussed goals, was philosophically consistent, and was articulate and virtually word perfect. She had substance and a genuine belief in her mission.
She showed up JUST IN THE NIK OF TIME.
A good positive response, no you're right, she didn't have all the answers and as with all politicians, got things wrong. But she had a rare self conviction and belief that what she was doing would be good in the long run. Remember this is 1978...Look at the global position UK is in now. The Safe Pair Of Hands so to speak.
She showed up just as the oil started coming in and those idiots in Argentina made a massive cock up if she had came along 5 years earlier Mrs Thatcher would have been a one term disaster
critic188 Five years before, she wasn't interested until Heath botched it so it wouldn't have matter.
+jwgeezer UKSR avoided!
+critic188 if Scargill have jumped under a bus it would have saved us all a lot of agro.
I find it interesting that in 1977, few imagined Britain would have a woman Prime Minister - and fast forward less than a half century, and Britain is on the verge of its *third* woman PM. (PS: All Tories!)
But the other two were: Pretty useless and then utterly useless and deranged.......
@@christopherwright8811 Agree on the second. The third one wasn't even given a chance before she was hounded out by the media.
I can see why many Labour figures such as Blair and Starmer love Thatcher. According to her own testimony she liberated the Labour leadership from the trades unions. I see Thatcher's point that New Labour was her proudest achievement.
thanks for this Dominic
Mrs Thatcher was right about the advance of Communism.
She was a genius. I wish she could fight the left today.
Peter Jenkins was one of the "Königswinter journalists" who attempted to build a pan-European group of opinion-formers, leaving behind the enmities of the past and looking forward to European community by meeting politicians and civil servants in the town of Königswinter near the capital Bonn in West Germany.
23:40 - "...and please I'd like 13 years to do it". She got 11 and did it with time to spare.
We could do with her back for sure legend
Some calibre here...she was willing to take on Socialism, still popular, on its own terms.
50,000 in LEGAL immigration was a problem in 1977.
I cannot think of one PM since her who could handle and articulate themselves as well.
I loved her as a fairly right wing teenager but I now realise I was spoilt. I do have high(ish) hopes for Dishi Rishi though.
cleaning the floor with the lot of them..
Imagine a politician doing this now. It would never happen.
Not Boris Johnson, that's for sure.
@@zeddeka I think from Thatcher on to be honest. Imagine the current journalists being as refrained and professional as this.
If you watch only a part of this video, watch the segment at 16:38 about the left, the far left, and the inevitable consequences.
We don't do political interviews like this any more. Can you imagine Corbyn agreeing to be subjected to this type of grilling? And imagine how poorly he would perform!
It's amazing what light can do.
Former prime minister of great Britain was one of the special head of state british people ever saw .
she was thrown out of office years later because she stopped listening to her Cabinet ... and the school boys had had enough of the Head Mistress spanking their butts
Lol... she never listened to her cabinet, she told her cabinet.... look at Westland affair in ‘86... Heseltine had his nose put out of joint and sent packing. Lawson, a brilliant chancellor, argues with her and sent packing... she didn’t reckon on Geoffrey Howe and his resignation speech in the house after she sacked him... that’s when the pack turned.
All these subjects relevant today.
I find this interesting. Both Thatcher and Benn feared the survival of democracy. They saw each other as endangering democracy. To what extent were these fears justified?
25:28 wow nothing has changed in 43 years
Like or hate her these British politicians actually can answer questions
Mary Goldring didn't contribute much to the discussion..
we are all one and no matter the fight ,,,, the only people around is us not you
I CALL THEM THE SNATCHER YEARS..........
The difference between the Tory party and Labour in the second half of the twentieth century about all was the Tory leadership saw the essential role of Britain as number two to the USA was to shut the Soviet Union and Russia out of UK by perserving the security of the military and security force shutting out the spies and fellow travellers. They did however forget that Britain had to have real independent conventional and nuclear capability as well. Iain McLeod was a prewar professional gambler, in many ways a Doctors son who charmed his way thru Fettes and Oxford, on brains and charm and very little work. He was a brilliant wartime staff officer but as was quite common was not efficient or effective in France in 1940, indeed going into battle he shot himself into foot by accident. Many could not even fire their weapon. In 1944 when he went ashore as an officer in a crack unit he found his rifle had bee loaded by Jelly beans. Nevertheless he was the last talent discovered by WSC and an important one, as a devastating opponent of Aerin Bevan and his unlimited ambition for the NHS. Iain McLeod stood by Churchill in his last political stand, half a dozen times trying to scream down Geoge Wigg from the HC gallery. Churchil believed Wigg was the type who should never be commissioned and as righteous puritian working class prig who saw power in the uniform would destroy Britain and possibly the world throught his ridiculous hypocritical outing of Profumo and efficient high ranking logistics officer and Minsiter of War.
Two faced saying that about unions before the election then doing the complete opposite after !!
33’50’’ what are/were “streamings” in schools?
Streaming is putting children in different classes according to their ability in a particularly subject, based on exam results, rather than all children mixed together in the same classes regardless of their ability.
Margot Ledbetter
You cannot always expect to increase incentives with tax cuts without strings attached. Really. The beneficiaries are in no way obliged to reinvest into the economy. They may merely pocket it. The foundations of her philosophy are built on assumptions. See the erroneous Laffert curve.
Much of her success was all down to good old North sea gas
and the Falklands fuckin bitch
Varsha Patel, it takes one to know one.
They just don't get capitalism.
Anyone who does not get plutocratic free market fundamentalism does not get capitalism ? Ok. Cool story
Mrs T. got a boost from GW Bush while he was Head of the CIA in 1976 which propelled her to be Prime Minister 3 years later ; she returned the favour - 12 years later in 1988.
How did he do that?
Her eyes... you can see how crazy she was even before she got all that power
+David Benson I thought here eyes were quite sexy.
Talking to your mirror again, aren’t you?
"you have the reputation of being a right winger"
note the smile and how her eyebrow lifts up lol
25:51 I am a little confused by this statement. Did she really imply she was more left wing than 75% of the British public?
Yes, she is correct for that time when she said this, remember, at that point, even traditional labour voters were threatening to vote for the racist National Front on the immigration issue and repatriate immigrants because bith major parties were refusing to address concerns of British people towards mass postwar migration. The majority supported the death penalty and were opposed to law reform on women and lgbts. So she was factually correct in this instance.
I don't know if you have worked in a factory or other working class environment but whilst they may be economically quite left wing on the subject of their wages they are also extremely right wing on social policy.
Particularly ironic that she said that she feared Labour would use the North sea oil revenues to stop working and use the money to live on. Of course, that's precisely what happened under her government. North sea oil revenues were used to fund the massive unemployment benefits needed under her government.
North Sea oil revenues were used to invest in profitable investments abroad and provided Britain with invisible earnings.
@@harmlessdrudgeand what precisely were they? If the money had been used that way the UK would have had a sovereign wealth fund like Norway created with its North Sea oil money. We do not have a sovereign wealth fund because the money was actually used to pay unemployment benefits to the 3 million + unemployed under her tenure. It's one of the reasons why the Pound crashed to near parity with the Dollar in 1985. As Roy Jenkins said at the time "it's because the markets cannot see how we're going to pay our way once the oil runs out".
Maybe Cooper will be the next female Prime Minister.
Mrs Thatcher can not stay without comment. I'm not sure that British people realise that their wealth is thanks of their hard work and Mrs Thatcher :) Except of her I've heard about Mr Churchill as well
"The wreckers in society"
You can see the spite in the communists
I only see your paranoia.
If they only knew in 1977.....the GREAT IRON LADY
Only woman is who is a "good" public speaker
Mr Dimbleby such a babyface here
knowone fron heaton or cambige should have rule over any brits your time is old
Typical libra ♎
Imagine if she didn’t have those classes for her voice. Her voice is so odd rn.
Your comment is much odder.
she divided this country bitterly, it still hasn't recovered
not really
+AdmiralBlake yep, instead of all of us living in poor 'equal' lives, some of us are actually more successful than others
A grotesquely unequal society is an unsuccessful society.
AdmiralBlake A "grotesquely" unequal society
>> Hyperbole much?
A friend of Jimmy Saville.
satan
Don’t be ridiculous.
She knew I was being molested and did nothing.
+Daniel Lapere Neither would I
you deserved it.
Liar
The nonsense people write....
Only way you could get action.
Where is she buried? I need a shit.
+Ken Algar You ARE a shit.
I would have loved to go to the ladies' bathroom with Mrs. Thatcher because I am a woman like she was .
+Shirley Mosely Would you like to have sat on the same toilet, urinating together amicably? Complaining about the prices of vegetables? Or would your toilet companionship have been more intimate? Awfully fascinating Miss.. Mosley? I trust you are not a relative of the Leader.
what.a.truly.strange.comment
T. had a very narrow mind and she cared about Pinochet, - poor woman. Let her "ruling" be a warning.
Hard to find someone with a better oversight and broader political knowledge.
Move over Mrs Thatcher _HELLO NICOLA STURGEON_
Shut up just because you don't like her your the numbskull shut up
***** What happens to Scotland when n sea oil runs out?
+Robby Khullar porridge mines
Embarrassing auntie maggie
Great woman, great politician.
@@Celisar1 you have a great sense of humour
She never be prime minister.
That woman ruined my bloody life and lots of others i slogg
Oh yes because the country was so better off before she took over... A 3 day working week, rubbish piled up on the streets, the dead unburied, trade unionists usurping public power and our diminishing prestige abroad... What a shame Thatcher ruined that ideal socialist utopia for you!
CNR K This will happen again when the UK leave the EU. You have to think those retarded enough to vote what the fuck they were doing
You think we will return to the winter of discontent, when we leave the EU, however you may have failed to remember, the winter of discontent happened whilst we were a member of the common market, 1978/79 we joined in 1975.
What i was doing when i voted to leave was voting to take my country back from a foreign power, We will make our own laws, Spend our own money, Make our own trade deals, and manage our own border, That's what a nation state does and 168 nations still do it today, Only European countries are bloc together, However we can still support Europe and not be part of the Bloc, I support the National Deaf Children's Society work and many other charities, I'm not a member of those said charities Nor do i give money to them !
She didn’t ruin my life, made a working class boy like me more wealthy, cheers Maggie🥂
we would have been much better off without her
You must be very young (and ignorant).
The UK was a completely failed state and dirt poor.
When she left office the UK was a prospering country.
Think about that.
1979 and UK was down the Labour Shitter.