SS13 player here, we can fix the new player experience by just copying what SS13 does: - Buffed solars (all 4 arrays can actually sustain the station by themselves) - Buffed SMES'es (they can last for 15-20 minutes, not 5) With these simple 2 changes, we not only ruled out new players being on the pressure of a timer as much as before, we also replaced the AME with something far more interesting and that interacts with a lot more of the game's systems, it makes you go out into space and learn how to use internals, it makes you learn how to wire, etc. It is a proper tutorial for engineering, the AME isn't. "Oh but won't that be too easy, too risk free, etc?" You can quite literally negate solars by just snipping them off-station, the incentive to do something better is still there.
Me, a botanist, 15 minutes into the shift, breaking into engi and setting their shit up because we've had no power the entire round and I can't grow plants in the HONKing dark.
Meteors can be interesting at rare occasion, but the issue is SS14 just doesn't have a ton of the random events that SS13 has, meaning instead of random escaped fugitives and cops from off station chasing them down, random cargo shuttle visitors, overwhelming blobs, sentient diseases, Abductors, Xenomorphs, wizards, random crew obsession, and space pirates. Also, without Lavaland or a place like it, cargo gets way less interesting, as you aren't able to build outposts on another world, and even engage with local ghost roles who can ally with or fight with the crew.
As a Cargonian, tried and true a single meteor can basically round ruin Cargo if Engineering doesn't have the time or skill to do shuttle repairs. The idea of Salvage setting up outposts to send supplies back to the station sounds cool, but I'm not sure if I want to see Lavaland in SS14.
Some ideas using only mechanics that already exist to expand engi: - Give engineering a Circuit Imprinter, people should go to engi to get new buildings and stuff rather than science, why is science doing more building than engineering? - Make the engineering autolathe a special Engi-lathe similar to the secfab that has access to certain sci researches and other unique items - Return the RPED and higher-tier machine components, make RPED round start craftable at the Engilathe - Science can research better components, they can only be made at the Engilathe. Salvage can also find the bluespace ones. Engineering can then upgrade the station over time with their RPED. - Buff atmospherics again Some ideas that don't currently exist: - Add more generic upgrades to things like doors to make them automatically open for registered crew, or turning firelocks into automated activating holofans, etc. - Add a bunch of simple-to-make stuff engineers can build to make everyone's lives better, like hullfoam poppers that automatically fill in breaches when they detect them. Nanotransen skimps on their station safety budget, it's up to you to change that. - Add multi-pipes to atmos for more compact designs
@@andrewgreeb916 I think my personal interpretation was: Holoprojector - Machine, doesn't have collision, looks like a flat screen. When any hologram is placed over it, it will maintain it as long as the projector has power. Also acts as a more balanced version of a tiny fan when combined with a holofan.
@@MehnixIsThatGuy yeah that is basically what I wanted to make, a machine that is functionally a recharger and a holofan merged into one thing that puts down holofans on cooldown and can use internal battery to stay on during outages.
@@MehnixIsThatGuy You could also combine this with the Force-field Projector instead of a holofan, and have an unbreakable wall there. It wouldn't be THAT overpowered anyway since, I assume, the projector can be removed with just an interaction. Disabling the force field, requiring someone to replace it. It also would make anomalies both really easy to contain, but also VERY easy to sabotage.
Sci : your fuck up will fuck you up Med : your fuck up going to effect only your patient Sec : your fuck will result you being insulted Engi : your fuck up pretty much end the whole round and will kill everyone.
I dunno, one time in med I critted myself when I accidentally drank the chems instead of drawing them into a needle. Maybe that says more about me than the job though...
As someone who got into SS14 recently, Engineering has been the most unapproachable department because of a horrendous amount of stuff to .. well, not do. Feels like one engineer and one atmos tech can keep everything alive in Engineering. They need to give techies more stuff to do in Engineering, that will improve the new player experience. Considering my first round it fell apart instantly because I had no clue what I was doing, the engineers didn't care to teach because they had no time to teach.
I do really hate the "gives them something to do" response for why meteors exist. Firstly, pretty horrible game design decision to base a mechanic purely on occupying a player's time over any form of enjoyment And second, engi could be spending that time and the resources building stuff like a shuttle for salvage or mailing systems. Not even to mention that antags are going to be causing problems that will need to be fixed later
having to make the shuttle for salvage is not a good idea. again it's another thing that pushes us to act quickly because somebody is having a worse experience without it
@@snowdevil002 Salvage does not need a shuttle quickly or even at all really in the current build of the game. I'm giving an example more interesting things for engi to do when not messing with power instead of patching random holes constantly
a ticket system where a someone can open a ticket with the engineering department and then an engineer can be assigned or assign themselves to that ticket and then mark it off once done. I think this game needs more management systems overall
I agree. Management systems exist for a reason, this game would be so much better and less of a hassle with just a ticketing system and a messenger app for the pda (how do we not have that yet?)
This could be useful for cargo as well. The number of times i have lost count of the orders since it has to be done manually and the techs don't tell me what goes out.
that seems overcomplicated, a simpler way to fix a lot of the chaos in all the departments, not just engi, is with more actual access restrictions and job variants. More specific roles makes managing a department quite a bit easier Like in science you could have proper roboticists with their own access and dedicated load outs, instead of all sci having the same stuff, with just some extra clothes. Same thing with any possible variants of the engineer roles like electrician, maintenance crew, life support and such. Sadly I've only seen those on delta v and even there they are only implemented as extra titles for roleplay rather than a game mechanic
"If they screw up the round ends and everyone dies" So what I'm hearing is that we need to make every department capable of causing critical round ending failures. Honestly tho brinfing back the ETL from whatever ss13 server it was is a great idea. Especially if you somehow implement hell burns alongside it, or just let atmo mix up some ridiculous fuel that you can now sell the energy from. Ideally for more than the value of just selling the tank. Plus it would be another source of death and explosions and we can never have enough of those. And tesla or singulo are kinda boring. You set it up and it either runs perfectly fine and all is well, or it breaks and everyone dies. As opposed to a hellburn where you systematically canibalize your entire department, make the entire area uninhabitable to anyone else, and compete with the power output of several dyson spheres by the end of it. The problem is that old hellburns were powered by spaghetti code bullshit, and it probably wouldn't be easy to replicate that level of volatility and the accompanying skill ceiling.
and ill add onto this more: we need a circuit imprinter and a machine printer. a big 3x3 room that can be set to print complicated machines like thrusters, PA parts, consoles, you name it, without the hassle of manually putting them together. we need more stuff that makes us unique from every shmuck with a utility belt and insuls
New player problem: if a round starts and only technical assistants are onboard, they should spawn with a deployable mega pacman, that takes very simple setup and fueling, and can keep the station online long enough for them to figure out the AME/engines or someone else to arrive and teach them how. The mega pacman can power the station for 30 minutes or however long, and self destructs non violently after it's done. Skill expression/No veterans problem: You could solve this by adding some kind of factorio tier automation to produce things for other departments en mass, as an alternative to cargo buying things, or science printing them. Imagine creating a little conveyor assembly plant to make bulk tools, components, general objects, etc. If you made this system optional but complex, it would invite people to return to engineering to see how it all works Overreliance problem: I actually think everyone relying on engineering is a good thing, and more departments would be like this. Instead of station integrity/power problems, people rely on medical and security for personnel issues, and cargo/science for procurement issues.
@@rougenarwhal8378 the last time people had factory grade setups was when wrenches sold for decent money and people would lag the game with the number of wrenches they were making to sell.
Honestly the power laser sounds fun as hell. It sure would be fun to balance keeping the station powered and selling the power. Changing the AME a bit/reverting it a bit sound good to. Like make it so it can power a whole station. Change the fuel consumption to like 10 minutes of runtime per bottle. Make the prices for the bottle rather expensive so you cant just power the station for free with them.
Submarine is a station with no ame, in order to give engineering time to setup the teg, singu, or large solar arrays. You have multiple backup power smes arrays wired to main HV to ensure you get at least 15-20 minutes of power, be more like submarine. Dude the PTL is already a thing in ss13, a way to sell excess power, Power Transmission Laser. As for engineering having stuff to do, circuit imprinter so they can make shuttles or machines, an engi techfab that can make solar panels and whatnot for station improvements, and or maybe give engineering shuttle parts so they can play around with ss14's most unique feature. As for other departments, Cargo has a lot of skill to it, knowing where to find bounties and "logistical planning" a revolutionary concept a lot of cargo people don't think of, basically you can anticipate or notice problems and get stuff to solve them before it becomes a crisis, you can also proactively ask about shortages to sort them out before they happen, cause many people do not anticipate shortages they come when they need the thing now. Also you can be a real nice cargo guy and hook up poor departments like deprived chefs with the cheap "kitchen supplies" box that comes with a ton of ingredients for only 750.
I think a possible way to implement your first idea (selling power) is to make the sale price of SMES’s scale with the amount of power in them. So you can print anSMES board (with materials from salvage), build it and then sell it back to cargo
Power gets off at the start of a round and nobody is fixing it way too often. And as a new technical assistant with no other engineers I had no idea how to keep power running too
It would be interesting to be able to not only sell excess power, but to use large amounts of power to do unique things, such as powering a nuclear fusion transmutation machine to make super dense metals and energy rich fuels, it certainly would make science enjoy the new fancy tools you could make, sec would enjoy ultra durable jail walls and superdense bullets, med could gain access to new machines, this would basically make engineering more beloved and add an expansion to just about every department that engineering could provide, buying power is a good idea, but another idea is to make local backup generators more accessible for people to use, you wouldn't imagine how many times I've had to remind people that maints has backup generators for this exact reason, Sci obviously needs a stronger backup generator, giving them one of the Pacmans that cost plasma could be a good way to do that, especially since they'd feel bad using up that plasma so they still miss engineering, there is soooo much you could do with the department, but honestly, one of the biggest change really would be making it easy to request building permits like you say, but at the same time it can be frustrating when a station disaster like war ops or early zombies just prevent engineers from doing anything fancy like that
So I don't even play Space Station games anymore and this was recommended to me, pretty neat. I feel like what you've described is part of a common pattern with the Space Station games; there's a lot of stepping on the players' toes. Other people already mentioned how SS13 doesn't have this problem but I think Engi / Atmos always suffered from bad design. They're too focused on critical ship functions to have much depth in the rest of the game. For a long time, as Atmos, optimizing gas / piping was limited on some servers to very simple changes you could finish within a few minutes. Admins didn't like the fact that Atmos could swap digital controls for analog controls so that a Malf AI would have a drastically harder time pumping toxic gasses into departments and since there wasn't much else in content for atmos the better ones would do it, given a chance. I don't know Atmos changed since but my rounds usually consisted of chilling in the tavern after optimizing gas flow because there was so little else to do. Now, I don't know how Botany differs in SS14, but unlike you I'd say it suffers its own special issues and that's why I quit. Back when I played, I can honestly tell you I was a God of Botany. On the server I played I always used a random name and despite that Antagonists would help me in the craziest ways, no questions asked, as soon as they realized I was on shift. I was always making the same two crops and one contained elaborate chemical setups that made the consumer so robust that only instant death could get in their way. Whereas Engi suffers from too little time in SS14 to get new players oriented, I came to realize in SS13 that Botany suffers from too much work and time at its highest level to ever bother passing down advanced knowledge to other players about it. For example one of the best basic plants required roughly 30 minutes to grow and practically nobody ever bothered growing it. In my own setup, 30 minutes for my special crops was the most optimal possible time. DNA machine delays from other people using it, mutagen issues, botanists hogging trays and more usually made it so maybe half the time I couldn't even finish my plan. And lord help me if I tried to get people to consume the crops - that was why I liked the Antags more than the actual crew. They actually played the game without shrugging off the need for food. Anyway, mostly rambles but I hope there can be a version of this game where the "work" aspects are streamlined so people not only have a reason to learn the advanced knowledge of their roles but also so that they have a reason to use it.
Huh. I left a comment on your recent Cog video about Engineering being able to convert extra energy into materials for use or selling. Like I said there, the primary engines need to be rebalanced for that. Right now, only their lower-bound power output is balanced. There are no mechanics in place right now stopping you from getting gigawatts of power because there's no benefit right now to producing more than you need. Would absolutely love this, tho. Being able to produce steel/glass in case cargo isn't cooperative. Being able to produce diamond in case cargo IS cooperative. Even producing gasses as an alternative to the gas miners.
dunno, its fun for me. when i teach I do what needs to be done and then teach after. SMES does need to be buffed. especially since cog exists. to have fun as engie, you need to make your own fun. literally. i just think what would be cool for me to build and then i do it.
The build request form idea, would be cool if you could make blueprints so that there is an easy way for someone to request what they want and for engi to look over it and decide how to go about it.
Yeah I mostly agree, personally I kind of "main" engi as it is my favourite role, personally I get bored playing med or sci, also yeah the fact that power only lasts for like less than 5 minutes when starting the round really pisses me off and a way to sell power would be great, also yeah the AME is more of a way to buy time that an actual sustainable power source, and also I personally learnt everything (literally) from the youtuber "liltenhead" and barely anything from the manual or whatever it's called, also TEG is just so complicated, but idk tho.
teg is less complicated than you think, it's just a hassle to setup and you gotta know a few limits. Like how volumetric pumps won't pump of the output is over 9000kpa, how the proper o2 to plasma ratio is 98/2. But i won't deny that it's a fickle beast.
The real answer is to have some for of dynamic matchmaking-esque system where departments get buffs for jobs occupied. Only one cargo tech? Cargo gets an extreme discount until that changes. One technical assistant? SMESes have energy regen for 30 minutes. No chemists after the first 5 minutes? Forced medical supplies spawn at ATS, topicals and medipens galore.
@andrewgreeb916 Agreed, you can use the fax machine and RP your issues to NT (admins) for additional help (hopefully). Admins want to play the round also, so if you at least try to RP with them, they'll probably send help instead of death and destruction.
I really like the idea of buying and selling power via laser to centcomm. Maybe I won't get told to go get CE's stamp every time I ask for a metal crate if I contributed to the pool of money used to buy it. Also, big shooty space lasers.
The Power Transfer Laser (PTL) is a ss13 goonstation staple. Provides a reason to go bananas with hyper optimised power generation. Feed clowns to the singulo to power it up to extreme levels and generate "UNLIMITED POWER!" and by extension unlimited cash
Goonstation SS13 engineers have the money laser (PTL), funnily enough. They’re planning on adapting it if they ever move over to SS14. Of course after the monotony of powering the station Goonstation kind of solves this by having engineers just move onto MechComp and TermOS. This ranges from making your different engine types more efficient with algorithms or just making wacky contraptions like teleporter hubs, among other things. All confined from a either public or Engineering specific MechLab. I never got heavy into min/maxing engine output since there’s a plethora of people who already know how and setting them up for basic output usually sufficed. I will admit GS engineering doesn’t usually need a lot of teamwork unless there’s heavy damage to the station or other station issues likely related to power. In the absence of such events the next best thing was passing time by solving practical problems. Could I make a kinetic launcher to transport people through the station? Could I create a SAW style kill box as an a antag? Could I make singularity engine for Cargonia that doesn’t get us killed? Wonderful experimentation is GSs main draw! If GS didn’t have that depth I would hardly play Engineering at all after becoming proficient with the different engines. It would be nice to see that same depth in SS14.
cargo goes to shuttle piloting, and salv goes to combat, also bandage fixes (EG nerfing space damage until there's more ways to fix it, people can run with guns in space to kill a dragon)
@@jessemillions5249 smes only charge with a cable terminal, so you can have round start charged smes on the main hv line to provide backup power in a manner similar to delta v submarine. The upside of using normal smes is that you can add them to the smes array with cable terminals.
I think, instead of buffing the smes's power storage itself, engi should have discharge only smes's that cannot recharge, only output, so that stuff like power sinks can still work relatively well.
It might make more sense to buff both, having a device that becomes useless the second engi is up is just another AME. Also, if the unreachables have enough for 15 min(no power) they would still greatly impact the sink(which is already kinda not good)
Keep in mind SMES only receive power from cable terminals, so you can just have charged SMES on the power grid to provide power at round start, delta V submarine makes use of many of these to ensure you get 15-20 minutes of power without an AME.
it's a shame engi sucks and has very little skill expression, back when i played i had a good chunk of SE and AT time under my belt and i remember the former being sooo boring and the latter just getting nerfed to the point that skill expression doesn't matter. i think that stupid AME change that made it OP was stupid too, it was in for so long that people relied on it as a crutch id rather play secoff because at least there's some stimulation there .. which says a lot considering i haven't unlocked it on wizden lol tripling the SMES capacity would be nice. id like more gasses to make. or just make the supermatter, idc, i don't play the game anymore lol edit: oh yeah they did kill that supermatter PR huh? i hate wizden
Sounds like a skill issue ss13-14 isn't built for casuals. It contains complex mechanics to have fun exploring, engineering is peak of that philosophy. Making everything "new player friendly" will kill what makes play spess fun
@@valeralishko8125 the issue is people have harassed the veteran engineers out of engineering, you either need to make it easier for replacement people or you need to give reasons for the skilled engineers to come back
Goongineers would have never learned how to hell burn if they didn't risk station destruction. DON'T BE SCARED TO FUCK UP. If they cry, then let em cry.
SS13 player here, we can fix the new player experience by just copying what SS13 does:
- Buffed solars (all 4 arrays can actually sustain the station by themselves)
- Buffed SMES'es (they can last for 15-20 minutes, not 5)
With these simple 2 changes, we not only ruled out new players being on the pressure of a timer as much as before, we also replaced the AME with something far more interesting and that interacts with a lot more of the game's systems, it makes you go out into space and learn how to use internals, it makes you learn how to wire, etc. It is a proper tutorial for engineering, the AME isn't.
"Oh but won't that be too easy, too risk free, etc?" You can quite literally negate solars by just snipping them off-station, the incentive to do something better is still there.
Me, a botanist, 15 minutes into the shift, breaking into engi and setting their shit up because we've had no power the entire round and I can't grow plants in the HONKing dark.
Meteors can be interesting at rare occasion, but the issue is SS14 just doesn't have a ton of the random events that SS13 has, meaning instead of random escaped fugitives and cops from off station chasing them down, random cargo shuttle visitors, overwhelming blobs, sentient diseases, Abductors, Xenomorphs, wizards, random crew obsession, and space pirates. Also, without Lavaland or a place like it, cargo gets way less interesting, as you aren't able to build outposts on another world, and even engage with local ghost roles who can ally with or fight with the crew.
As a Cargonian, tried and true a single meteor can basically round ruin Cargo if Engineering doesn't have the time or skill to do shuttle repairs.
The idea of Salvage setting up outposts to send supplies back to the station sounds cool, but I'm not sure if I want to see Lavaland in SS14.
@@The_Sludge Why would you not want lavaland? Lavaland is great, turns boys into men
@@userequaltoNull I'd rather we get something original, ideally using shuttles instead of just copying another TG/SS13 feature.
Hear me out, Waterland!
@@The_Sludge seems like once out of every 5 salvage rounds I am fixing cargo or cargo shuttle as salvage
Some ideas using only mechanics that already exist to expand engi:
- Give engineering a Circuit Imprinter, people should go to engi to get new buildings and stuff rather than science, why is science doing more building than engineering?
- Make the engineering autolathe a special Engi-lathe similar to the secfab that has access to certain sci researches and other unique items
- Return the RPED and higher-tier machine components, make RPED round start craftable at the Engilathe
- Science can research better components, they can only be made at the Engilathe. Salvage can also find the bluespace ones. Engineering can then upgrade the station over time with their RPED.
- Buff atmospherics again
Some ideas that don't currently exist:
- Add more generic upgrades to things like doors to make them automatically open for registered crew, or turning firelocks into automated activating holofans, etc.
- Add a bunch of simple-to-make stuff engineers can build to make everyone's lives better, like hullfoam poppers that automatically fill in breaches when they detect them. Nanotransen skimps on their station safety budget, it's up to you to change that.
- Add multi-pipes to atmos for more compact designs
wow, these ideas are so sick ! engineering really needs a complete rework and rebalance.
newmed comes second
A machine that can continuously generate a holofan would be a godsend, to the point I almost want to make it myself...
@@andrewgreeb916 I think my personal interpretation was: Holoprojector - Machine, doesn't have collision, looks like a flat screen. When any hologram is placed over it, it will maintain it as long as the projector has power.
Also acts as a more balanced version of a tiny fan when combined with a holofan.
@@MehnixIsThatGuy yeah that is basically what I wanted to make, a machine that is functionally a recharger and a holofan merged into one thing that puts down holofans on cooldown and can use internal battery to stay on during outages.
@@MehnixIsThatGuy You could also combine this with the Force-field Projector instead of a holofan, and have an unbreakable wall there.
It wouldn't be THAT overpowered anyway since, I assume, the projector can be removed with just an interaction. Disabling the force field, requiring someone to replace it. It also would make anomalies both really easy to contain, but also VERY easy to sabotage.
Sci : your fuck up will fuck you up
Med : your fuck up going to effect only your patient
Sec : your fuck will result you being insulted
Engi : your fuck up pretty much end the whole round and will kill everyone.
I dunno, one time in med I critted myself when I accidentally drank the chems instead of drawing them into a needle. Maybe that says more about me than the job though...
As someone who got into SS14 recently, Engineering has been the most unapproachable department because of a horrendous amount of stuff to .. well, not do. Feels like one engineer and one atmos tech can keep everything alive in Engineering. They need to give techies more stuff to do in Engineering, that will improve the new player experience. Considering my first round it fell apart instantly because I had no clue what I was doing, the engineers didn't care to teach because they had no time to teach.
I do really hate the "gives them something to do" response for why meteors exist.
Firstly, pretty horrible game design decision to base a mechanic purely on occupying a player's time over any form of enjoyment
And second, engi could be spending that time and the resources building stuff like a shuttle for salvage or mailing systems.
Not even to mention that antags are going to be causing problems that will need to be fixed later
having to make the shuttle for salvage is not a good idea. again it's another thing that pushes us to act quickly because somebody is having a worse experience without it
@@snowdevil002 Salvage does not need a shuttle quickly or even at all really in the current build of the game. I'm giving an example more interesting things for engi to do when not messing with power instead of patching random holes constantly
a ticket system where a someone can open a ticket with the engineering department and then an engineer can be assigned or assign themselves to that ticket and then mark it off once done. I think this game needs more management systems overall
I agree. Management systems exist for a reason, this game would be so much better and less of a hassle with just a ticketing system and a messenger app for the pda (how do we not have that yet?)
This could be useful for cargo as well. The number of times i have lost count of the orders since it has to be done manually and the techs don't tell me what goes out.
that seems overcomplicated, a simpler way to fix a lot of the chaos in all the departments, not just engi, is with more actual access restrictions and job variants. More specific roles makes managing a department quite a bit easier
Like in science you could have proper roboticists with their own access and dedicated load outs, instead of all sci having the same stuff, with just some extra clothes. Same thing with any possible variants of the engineer roles like electrician, maintenance crew, life support and such. Sadly I've only seen those on delta v and even there they are only implemented as extra titles for roleplay rather than a game mechanic
"If they screw up the round ends and everyone dies"
So what I'm hearing is that we need to make every department capable of causing critical round ending failures.
Honestly tho brinfing back the ETL from whatever ss13 server it was is a great idea. Especially if you somehow implement hell burns alongside it, or just let atmo mix up some ridiculous fuel that you can now sell the energy from. Ideally for more than the value of just selling the tank. Plus it would be another source of death and explosions and we can never have enough of those.
And tesla or singulo are kinda boring. You set it up and it either runs perfectly fine and all is well, or it breaks and everyone dies. As opposed to a hellburn where you systematically canibalize your entire department, make the entire area uninhabitable to anyone else, and compete with the power output of several dyson spheres by the end of it. The problem is that old hellburns were powered by spaghetti code bullshit, and it probably wouldn't be easy to replicate that level of volatility and the accompanying skill ceiling.
and ill add onto this more: we need a circuit imprinter and a machine printer. a big 3x3 room that can be set to print complicated machines like thrusters, PA parts, consoles, you name it, without the hassle of manually putting them together. we need more stuff that makes us unique from every shmuck with a utility belt and insuls
A giant energy mining laser, flying from sector to sector without a care for whoever gets caught in the blast, does sound very Nanotrasen to me
To the point the PTL already exists in ss13 and lets you sell power for cash.
New player problem: if a round starts and only technical assistants are onboard, they should spawn with a deployable mega pacman, that takes very simple setup and fueling, and can keep the station online long enough for them to figure out the AME/engines or someone else to arrive and teach them how. The mega pacman can power the station for 30 minutes or however long, and self destructs non violently after it's done.
Skill expression/No veterans problem: You could solve this by adding some kind of factorio tier automation to produce things for other departments en mass, as an alternative to cargo buying things, or science printing them. Imagine creating a little conveyor assembly plant to make bulk tools, components, general objects, etc. If you made this system optional but complex, it would invite people to return to engineering to see how it all works
Overreliance problem: I actually think everyone relying on engineering is a good thing, and more departments would be like this. Instead of station integrity/power problems, people rely on medical and security for personnel issues, and cargo/science for procurement issues.
@@rougenarwhal8378 the last time people had factory grade setups was when wrenches sold for decent money and people would lag the game with the number of wrenches they were making to sell.
Honestly the power laser sounds fun as hell. It sure would be fun to balance keeping the station powered and selling the power.
Changing the AME a bit/reverting it a bit sound good to. Like make it so it can power a whole station. Change the fuel consumption to like 10 minutes of runtime per bottle. Make the prices for the bottle rather expensive so you cant just power the station for free with them.
Submarine is a station with no ame, in order to give engineering time to setup the teg, singu, or large solar arrays. You have multiple backup power smes arrays wired to main HV to ensure you get at least 15-20 minutes of power, be more like submarine.
Dude the PTL is already a thing in ss13, a way to sell excess power, Power Transmission Laser.
As for engineering having stuff to do, circuit imprinter so they can make shuttles or machines, an engi techfab that can make solar panels and whatnot for station improvements, and or maybe give engineering shuttle parts so they can play around with ss14's most unique feature.
As for other departments, Cargo has a lot of skill to it, knowing where to find bounties and "logistical planning" a revolutionary concept a lot of cargo people don't think of, basically you can anticipate or notice problems and get stuff to solve them before it becomes a crisis, you can also proactively ask about shortages to sort them out before they happen, cause many people do not anticipate shortages they come when they need the thing now. Also you can be a real nice cargo guy and hook up poor departments like deprived chefs with the cheap "kitchen supplies" box that comes with a ton of ingredients for only 750.
I think a possible way to implement your first idea (selling power) is to make the sale price of SMES’s scale with the amount of power in them. So you can print anSMES board (with materials from salvage), build it and then sell it back to cargo
Power gets off at the start of a round and nobody is fixing it way too often. And as a new technical assistant with no other engineers I had no idea how to keep power running too
It would be interesting to be able to not only sell excess power, but to use large amounts of power to do unique things, such as powering a nuclear fusion transmutation machine to make super dense metals and energy rich fuels, it certainly would make science enjoy the new fancy tools you could make, sec would enjoy ultra durable jail walls and superdense bullets, med could gain access to new machines, this would basically make engineering more beloved and add an expansion to just about every department that engineering could provide, buying power is a good idea, but another idea is to make local backup generators more accessible for people to use, you wouldn't imagine how many times I've had to remind people that maints has backup generators for this exact reason, Sci obviously needs a stronger backup generator, giving them one of the Pacmans that cost plasma could be a good way to do that, especially since they'd feel bad using up that plasma so they still miss engineering, there is soooo much you could do with the department, but honestly, one of the biggest change really would be making it easy to request building permits like you say, but at the same time it can be frustrating when a station disaster like war ops or early zombies just prevent engineers from doing anything fancy like that
So I don't even play Space Station games anymore and this was recommended to me, pretty neat. I feel like what you've described is part of a common pattern with the Space Station games; there's a lot of stepping on the players' toes. Other people already mentioned how SS13 doesn't have this problem but I think Engi / Atmos always suffered from bad design. They're too focused on critical ship functions to have much depth in the rest of the game. For a long time, as Atmos, optimizing gas / piping was limited on some servers to very simple changes you could finish within a few minutes. Admins didn't like the fact that Atmos could swap digital controls for analog controls so that a Malf AI would have a drastically harder time pumping toxic gasses into departments and since there wasn't much else in content for atmos the better ones would do it, given a chance. I don't know Atmos changed since but my rounds usually consisted of chilling in the tavern after optimizing gas flow because there was so little else to do.
Now, I don't know how Botany differs in SS14, but unlike you I'd say it suffers its own special issues and that's why I quit. Back when I played, I can honestly tell you I was a God of Botany. On the server I played I always used a random name and despite that Antagonists would help me in the craziest ways, no questions asked, as soon as they realized I was on shift. I was always making the same two crops and one contained elaborate chemical setups that made the consumer so robust that only instant death could get in their way. Whereas Engi suffers from too little time in SS14 to get new players oriented, I came to realize in SS13 that Botany suffers from too much work and time at its highest level to ever bother passing down advanced knowledge to other players about it. For example one of the best basic plants required roughly 30 minutes to grow and practically nobody ever bothered growing it. In my own setup, 30 minutes for my special crops was the most optimal possible time. DNA machine delays from other people using it, mutagen issues, botanists hogging trays and more usually made it so maybe half the time I couldn't even finish my plan. And lord help me if I tried to get people to consume the crops - that was why I liked the Antags more than the actual crew. They actually played the game without shrugging off the need for food.
Anyway, mostly rambles but I hope there can be a version of this game where the "work" aspects are streamlined so people not only have a reason to learn the advanced knowledge of their roles but also so that they have a reason to use it.
+1 I do crave a goonstation PTL. Also it was always funny when people melt things in it.
Huh. I left a comment on your recent Cog video about Engineering being able to convert extra energy into materials for use or selling. Like I said there, the primary engines need to be rebalanced for that. Right now, only their lower-bound power output is balanced. There are no mechanics in place right now stopping you from getting gigawatts of power because there's no benefit right now to producing more than you need.
Would absolutely love this, tho. Being able to produce steel/glass in case cargo isn't cooperative. Being able to produce diamond in case cargo IS cooperative. Even producing gasses as an alternative to the gas miners.
Audio: A well put together arguement on why engi needs a change
Video footage: A syndie breaks the perma out, then suffers a case of bad gas.
dunno, its fun for me. when i teach I do what needs to be done and then teach after. SMES does need to be buffed. especially since cog exists. to have fun as engie, you need to make your own fun. literally. i just think what would be cool for me to build and then i do it.
I hated how they removed the part improvement upgrades, cause you could easily upgrade an smes with medium power cells you have in the engi vend.
Tbh engi is only there to ocationally hack a door open and to gib a random tider stealing insuls.
And to singuloose the moment i roll antag
The build request form idea, would be cool if you could make blueprints so that there is an easy way for someone to request what they want and for engi to look over it and decide how to go about it.
Yeah I mostly agree, personally I kind of "main" engi as it is my favourite role, personally I get bored playing med or sci, also yeah the fact that power only lasts for like less than 5 minutes when starting the round really pisses me off and a way to sell power would be great, also yeah the AME is more of a way to buy time that an actual sustainable power source, and also I personally learnt everything (literally) from the youtuber "liltenhead" and barely anything from the manual or whatever it's called, also TEG is just so complicated, but idk tho.
teg is less complicated than you think, it's just a hassle to setup and you gotta know a few limits. Like how volumetric pumps won't pump of the output is over 9000kpa, how the proper o2 to plasma ratio is 98/2. But i won't deny that it's a fickle beast.
The real answer is to have some for of dynamic matchmaking-esque system where departments get buffs for jobs occupied. Only one cargo tech? Cargo gets an extreme discount until that changes. One technical assistant? SMESes have energy regen for 30 minutes. No chemists after the first 5 minutes? Forced medical supplies spawn at ATS, topicals and medipens galore.
No that would result in people flaming others for joining the role when they are the solo member.
@andrewgreeb916 Agreed, you can use the fax machine and RP your issues to NT (admins) for additional help (hopefully). Admins want to play the round also, so if you at least try to RP with them, they'll probably send help instead of death and destruction.
Put a red line for the power-export-laser on the mass scanner. The do-not-slip sign for the burn/cancer ray.
I really like the idea of buying and selling power via laser to centcomm. Maybe I won't get told to go get CE's stamp every time I ask for a metal crate if I contributed to the pool of money used to buy it. Also, big shooty space lasers.
The Power Transfer Laser (PTL) is a ss13 goonstation staple. Provides a reason to go bananas with hyper optimised power generation.
Feed clowns to the singulo to power it up to extreme levels and generate "UNLIMITED POWER!" and by extension unlimited cash
Goonstation SS13 engineers have the money laser (PTL), funnily enough. They’re planning on adapting it if they ever move over to SS14.
Of course after the monotony of powering the station Goonstation kind of solves this by having engineers just move onto MechComp and TermOS. This ranges from making your different engine types more efficient with algorithms or just making wacky contraptions like teleporter hubs, among other things. All confined from a either public or Engineering specific MechLab.
I never got heavy into min/maxing engine output since there’s a plethora of people who already know how and setting them up for basic output usually sufficed. I will admit GS engineering doesn’t usually need a lot of teamwork unless there’s heavy damage to the station or other station issues likely related to power. In the absence of such events the next best thing was passing time by solving practical problems. Could I make a kinetic launcher to transport people through the station? Could I create a SAW style kill box as an a antag? Could I make singularity engine for Cargonia that doesn’t get us killed? Wonderful experimentation is GSs main draw!
If GS didn’t have that depth I would hardly play Engineering at all after becoming proficient with the different engines. It would be nice to see that same depth in SS14.
cargo goes to shuttle piloting, and salv goes to combat, also bandage fixes (EG nerfing space damage until there's more ways to fix it, people can run with guns in space to kill a dragon)
I like the power transmission idea, but what about some matter synthesizer that uses a shitload of power to make basic or rare materials?
Apparently, it has been tried on an SS13 server. I was told it wasn't that good, being so 1 dimensional.
I had an idea for a silly smes that could fix this problem just give it 10-30 times the storage but make it unable to be refilled
@@jessemillions5249 smes only charge with a cable terminal, so you can have round start charged smes on the main hv line to provide backup power in a manner similar to delta v submarine.
The upside of using normal smes is that you can add them to the smes array with cable terminals.
I think, instead of buffing the smes's power storage itself, engi should have discharge only smes's that cannot recharge, only output, so that stuff like power sinks can still work relatively well.
It might make more sense to buff both, having a device that becomes useless the second engi is up is just another AME.
Also, if the unreachables have enough for 15 min(no power) they would still greatly impact the sink(which is already kinda not good)
Keep in mind SMES only receive power from cable terminals, so you can just have charged SMES on the power grid to provide power at round start, delta V submarine makes use of many of these to ensure you get 15-20 minutes of power without an AME.
I know goon station has a rocket launcher made to shut down singularities or teslas, might ease the burden of messing up as a new player just a little
how the hell did the satire video from the other day cause actual drama. seemed pretty inocuous to me.
Ngl, supper matter getting rejected really sucks, that is the only good thing goob has over wizden
Monke has a power laser
engi can be the most hated department in a round by far
@@crackedemerald4930 that's the problem, engineers are getting flack despite being essential
Been playing monke station lately? They have the laser that engis can use to sell power, I believe
it's a shame engi sucks and has very little skill expression, back when i played i had a good chunk of SE and AT time under my belt and i remember the former being sooo boring and the latter just getting nerfed to the point that skill expression doesn't matter. i think that stupid AME change that made it OP was stupid too, it was in for so long that people relied on it as a crutch
id rather play secoff because at least there's some stimulation there .. which says a lot considering i haven't unlocked it on wizden lol
tripling the SMES capacity would be nice. id like more gasses to make. or just make the supermatter, idc, i don't play the game anymore lol
edit: oh yeah they did kill that supermatter PR huh? i hate wizden
Engi is so miserable. Really feels like a government job (set up and sit around until something that needs engi happens)
Sounds like a skill issue ss13-14 isn't built for casuals. It contains complex mechanics to have fun exploring, engineering is peak of that philosophy. Making everything "new player friendly" will kill what makes play spess fun
gatekeeping kills a community over time
@@valeralishko8125 the issue is people have harassed the veteran engineers out of engineering, you either need to make it easier for replacement people or you need to give reasons for the skilled engineers to come back
Goongineers would have never learned how to hell burn if they didn't risk station destruction. DON'T BE SCARED TO FUCK UP. If they cry, then let em cry.