Find the FULL podcast with Dan here on Apple podcasts - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rick-shiels-golf-show/id1406443091#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-8361303
Even a year later this is a great podcast.. be interesting to break down the and interview the specialsts ie Karl morris - mental game, dan grave short game, IMG golf mgt etc
One thing missing - No mention of the "Bank of Mum and Dad". Without a lot of money put into a young player - no one can get on tour. Membership, clubs, bags, clothes, shoes, gloves, balls, tees, transport to and from....need I go on? People in the background have to make more sacrfices than the kid with the grooved swing.
Very true. At bare minimum you have to have all the equipment, maybe a net to practice with, and transportation to ranges, coaches, or matches. The richest kids have the BEST equipment, coaches, facilities, simulators even inside of their homes. That's why I think golf is kinda of pay to win sport. It requires some talent of course but those kids with the lessons their whole lives and the golf simulators inside of their homes with the best clubs fitted for them will be better 90% of the time. A perfect example is Tiger's son. Kid will have the best coaches, clubs, facilities, and no shortage of money of course. He will guaranteed make it on tour.
Bank of mom and dad, or community support. Lanto Griffin lost his father at an early age and the local club gave him membership and pro gave free lessons. Won his first PGA tourney last year.
There are obvious exceptions but yeah you look at pros on tour and a lot of them grew up being members at private clubs, playing every day in the summer, going round and round with their buddies when they're young. If you're poor, good luck. You better hope your talent level is greater than your mom/dad's pocket book.
Correct but it's living vicariously with you son or daughter, your mum and dad couldn't afford it 🤔 how good would it be walking down the road hole with your son ,1 shot ahead of john Rham ,it would be priceless ,😘👍
Just to share another little story as well; I was fortunate enough to play a round of golf with a young local lad who had not long turned Pro (through a mutual friend). He played for England School Boys and he turned Pro off +6!!! He was just ridiculously good I've never seen anything like it. He shot 6 under when I played with him incidentally and it didn't even look like he broke sweat. It's a bit of a cliche but they play a different game. They hit the ball that hard and far, the ball flight is totally different, it's like they're playing with a special ball or something. He took lines off the tee you don't even think are possible, there's no such thing as a par 5, just long par 4s, and inside of 150 yards it was within 6-8ft every time. Now here's the crazy part, as good as that lad is, even he's struggling to really make it!! He's knocking around the Challenge Tour and Euro Pro etc and he's had the odd invite for European Tour and apart from one or two respectable finishes, he's not done a great deal. He has had a few injuries though I believe. I still look back on that round with him regularly and think what a privilege it was to see that up close. Absolutely different gravy!
It must mess a lot of people's heads up when they dominate their local scene and suddenly they step up to the next level and EVERYONE is just as good as you or better.
Definitely. It's easier to drop from an 18 handicap down to single digits because your mistakes are so abundant and easy to correct. Slashing a stroke once you're a single already is insanely difficult, and once you, if you can, get to a 0, you gotta be an absolute monster all the time on the course to be a +. THEN you gotta extend that to 6-7 (if not more) more strokes to even consider competing on tour. The naivete of some scratch golfers that aren't plus, that think they can compete professionally, is insane.
@@TheSlyBadger very well put. At my best I was a scratch playing the same easy course multiple times a week. A good friend of mine is a pro who has made PGA tour cuts. The gap between my game and his game is massive haha. Hoping to get him in one of my videos and break it down soon
Awesome podcast Rick, you are an absolute legend! Your honesty about scores and your game makes you so much more authentic than a lot of other channels, and it also makes the days you score really well even cooler, because we know that you have worked for it and deserve it. I wish you all the best with life, golf and your family.
I think Rick showed the difference in those who will make it and who won’t. “So you won’t have any fun” is what Rick said but the true greats of the game ARE having fun. They wouldn’t rather be anywhere else than on a golf course playing at the highest level so in their minds they aren’t missing out on any fun, the journey and destination are fun enough
I’m 25 and have become obsessed with golf. I practice 6 to 7 times a week for two to three hours at a time. I don’t really do it because I have hopes of becoming a pro golfer. I only do it because I find it fun. To me, there is no better feeling than hitting golf balls straight down the range. I’m unemployed right now and when I get a job this might change, but I’ll enjoy it while I have it.
Don’t do it to go pro. I picked up golf in 2 months (it took me to get good) and got low 80’s. Just to say how fast I got good. But the amount of time, money, and inner circle hyping it I got so burnt out and haven’t picked up clubs in months. I was also spending 1.3k a minute, 70plus hours a week since I have a club close to me and netting in my yard. I say this to say. Keep it fun and if the opportunity comes do it but don’t lose yourself like I did. 😊
@@Topgear.filmer all due respect it sounds like you have more talent than you realize and need to understand how rare it is to have those talents in the sport of golf. You could still make a decent/healthy living playing in amateur tournaments if you get to a certain level and you don’t have a coach to pay or anything like you really should dive deeper and consider the opportunity you might have. Just my two cents.
Exactly my down fall. I started when I was 16 and by the time I turned 18 years old I was playing off 9. I was playing/practicing everyday. I was having lessons regular and I was shooting mid 70 rounds. But when I turned 18, i discovered alcohol and woman and i ruined everything. But it proved that I never had what it took.
Hearing different coaches talk about what it takes to be a tour pro and just how good the tour pros are just blows my mind every time. I feel like a lot of people still think of golf as a old mans game. It has definitely got better but I don't think people realize how good pro golfers are. In my opinion golf is the hardest sport to get good at.
Development years 18-22 is 💯 right. I averaged 67 on my junior circuit. I'm in my 30s now, can't break par and I've never been happier playing golf. The grind will change you if you're not built for it.
Really enjoyed listening to Dan. Great topic. Note I've been watching golf since the 60's and Dan's comment about the level of competition right now is bang on. There are so many great players now that almost anyone can win from week to week. And they're a lot more physically fit. Hope you have Dan on again. PS-when I hear Dan talk about young 16-17 year olds who don't really pan out I couldn't help but think of a guy in the US named Ty Tryon. One win on Hooters Tour. That's it.
I grew up playing with a golfer who turned pro around 10 years ago off +3/+4 and he played europro for a couple of years. Your guest is spot on as even back then at 17/18 years old pre turning pro playing our local club comps off the white tees -2 was his rare bad round (even in wet weather or fairly windy conditions) and on the flip side his low rounds in good conditions was -7/-8.
It’s just so amazing that as a parent after hearing this...there are other parents that push they’re children through this process just to live through them and not let golf just be a good fun sport.
Good point of managing your expectations. I played 2x in Sunday competition with a young player who wanted to go on the Challenge tour, he was playing of +3 and both times i thought there was a lot of skill missing in his game (I was was playxing of 22 at that time but still could see, that he is not going to make it) and surely both times he walked out of the competition because his score was so poor. A few years later I went for a fitting and while I was talking to the guy, he mentioned he was playing US-College golf at +5 and I asked him if he ever tried it on tour or if he ever considered to go on tour. His reply was stunning to me, he said: "No my putting was too bad". I am sure he was super realistic about his game at an early stage of life/golfing career. I was stunned by that answer, as I was told by friend, that P. Harrington i.e. became a pro at +3 and later went on to become one of the greatest golfers.
Equally I know of plenty of +6 or better golfers at 15 who made a local tour and disappeared. There’s plenty of low handicap players who worked hard and are now best in the world. Do not put your in a box, work hard and you’ll be a good chance. 🙏.
Very interesting. One obvious thing you see with scratch players at you local is that most courses are 6000/6500 yards, par 4's 370-410 on average. Take those guys to a championship layout and all of a sudden they're 8 handicappers at best!!
Absolutely loved this podcast! (still haven't listened to all of it). Dan is so knowledgable about golf and the golf swing I could listen to him talk about it all day long. I was one of the guys that you effectively referenced in the podcast; I first saw Dan through yours and Pete's videos and then booked in for a lesson with him myself. I had to answer all of those questions like he said and I didn't realise this at the time but I guess I was lucky that he 'agreed' to take me on lol! I've had 4 lessons with him over the last 4 years and in that time I've come down from 18 to 6. Hoping to book another lesson later this year.
Matt Southgate and Richard McEvoy both use the course I play at to practice on - one of the people I play with who plays off scratch played with McEvoy the other week in a friendly 4 ball and he shot 61 - 10 under! The level is ridiculous - then imagine the jump from these European tour guys (making cuts and McEvoy has 1 win on tour) to the top level PGA household names
It’s like this. To even make it past q school, you gotta play the best golf of your life, for 4 straight days. Even then it may not be enough. If you can show up and shoot 64 on your home course with ease, your ready.
I went to the local Korn Ferry Qualifier Q-School tourney last year. This kid from Oklahoma in 3 rounds, in the wind, pins tucked, 7200 yards shot -19. The following month he shot -5 in 4 rounds and missed cut. See you next year. Entry Fee was $3500
The other difference to the weekend golfer is... Perfectly groomed golf courses, no crappy conditions to deal with. Unless you put it in the water, you aren't losing a ball, there is always someone nearby. They fix their ball marks. If they shank it it hits someone in the gallery and bounces back. The best equipment. All of this adds up to a few shots.
The rough at alot of championship courses is far worse, especially links courses. Not only that but the greens are non comparable. A weekend warrior isn’t stopping that ball dead on the greens that the pros play on or judging speeds, lines etc etc
Very inciteful as to how the pro game has changed. From my experiences from over 20 years ago it has significantly changed to break in. I remember reading about the Leadbetter academy for juniors in the early 2000's and how it was regular school built around teaching junior players to become elite future pro players. Times change that's for sure. Hearing the elite player coach be honest about where you would need to be to realistically have a chance is so refreshing. 20 plus years ago you didn't have that, at least not for me. All I ever heard was you hit it plenty long enough just work on your short game and you will make it. I work a fulltime job now with some scar tissue that I'm still reconciling with from my own failures. I did fall into the trap of girls and alcohol and having a really good time. Before you know it a few years have gone by and not that the moment has passed, but each year it gets harder and harder and the odds begin to really stack up against you.
I enjoyed this. Helps me with my own expectations. It's hard to know just how good these blokes are in a vaccume. And I want to get to the singles in my handicap so it helps to know what actually goes on in these things.
Rick hit it on the money. Monster drives are still 200yrds on a Par 4. Pros are pulling out 7iron and getting on the green with accuracy. Where most Joes can hit a huge a drive but struggle on the next shot with a hybrid 3wood to get close to the green let alone the hole.
Let's be fair, a +2 on a bad day is not still shooting under par (unless they play on a very easy course). Plus handicaps are not superheroes. This might shock people, but plus handicaps still shoot 😲 5,6,7 over par sometimes 😲 they just do it much less often, and can also shoot several under par the next round to make up for it. Full disclosure before someone calls me jealous or something, I'm a 4 h'cap and play with plus handicaps semi-regularly. And they are significantly better than me.
It’s true but I know some lads on the tour who turned pro off 3 handicap and kept improving year on year and got a Europeantour card and then there was ian pouter who turned pro off 2 handicap so there is no rule ⛳️👍👍👍great video
This was very enlightening! Appreciated the inner circle view on what it takes. God bless anyone walking down this road, these major organizations don't seem to care to make it very easy for them.
I'm very happy to hear that the times have gone that someone needs to really mimic a swing but that one is looking to the individual. In top sports things are just at a different level and as I was a pro tennis coach for talented youth (top level) I know this all to well. So this said ... nice vid of part of the pod cast. Thx from this now 2 year new-bee in golf and totally in love with this game. 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Another interesting thing is that gaining on your index gets increasingly, dare I say exponentially harder the lower you get. Going from 6 to 5 is way easier than going from +5 to +6.
I'm sure i've read that his is an unusual story. They wouldn't let him play in club comps when he was effectively working as an assistant pro (so he had an artificially high handicap). They were trying to make him pay green fees to play when he didn't have much money, so he was actually nothing like a 3/4 handicap in terms of standard at the time.
@@nickhood345 I’ve read his book and it doesn’t say anything like that in it. Just said at 17/18 he decided to dedicate himself and see how far he can get but he also wanted to finish his PGA exams before he played full time
Rick asked a few times "your maybe on the verge, what you got to do at 22 to make it"? If you're asking that question at 22 your probably already to late! I would say your in a way better position if you and your coach is asking that very question when the players breaking through at 15 or even 18 years old, it's like most thing's, if you want to be one of the best you need to get in early and stay focused/consistent.
A tour golfer is on a different planet to a scratch handicapper. It could come down to natural talent or it could be they've got a better team around em or it could be dedication, or a mixture of all 3.
In golf, in you’re good enough you will make it. Forget handicap. So many people are so focused on handicap. There is a ton of players that have an “ego” handicap(especially younger players with the new handicap system) that they can’t actually play to and it gets them nowhere, so don’t get disheartened by this video if you’re that person that is going to work harder than anyone else to achieve your dreams!
Dear Rick, I get it that the red Monster on the left shelf matches the color scheme, but I feel like I speak for many of your fans here, you deserve better! Replace it with a watermelon red bull. It will still match the color scheme and you'll have the quality of product that a respected man such as yourself deserves! Regards, A big fan.
It means your better than scratch (0 handicap). You have to give shots back to the course. i.e. a plus 6 handicap on a par 72 would have to shoot 66 to play to their handicap.
Watching valderama DP world tour event recently commentator said 1 handicapper receives 12 shots when he plays off the tips. I’m off 1 and would say I’m at least 12 shots worse than Rory. Our club champion is +3 and has been +5 and unfortunately he’s nowhere near good enough to play on challenge tour he plays with euro pro tour guy who has done nothing as a pro and gets beat easily. I’m a decent golfer it’s hard to knock 12 shots off my game. These guys are just so good.
I think anyone who thinks they are good enough to go down this route really needs to get on a tougher course and play it from the back tees. My local course from the back tees is a par 71, 7100 yards rated at 73.8, slope 139. Playing par 3's that are around or over 200 yards gets easy to throw shots away. Par 4s that constantly require long irons into small greens. Par 5s that unless your knocking it well over 300 yards your not getting home in 2. This course can be tough to shoot low scores on. Being able to knock it round your local course that's under 6500 yards in the 60s is not going to make it.
but only a handful of tournament pros on the PGA are at +8-9 each week and even less remain there for any length of time. What's Adam Scott's "handicap currently"?
actually these tour courses are and very finaly cut greens and fringes, and good conditions well kept courses . are easier then a lot of the average public golf courses. the greens roll more true and the fairways are easier to make good contact . ive shot my best scores in some of these golf tour golf courses. there not that hard actually. now some are very hard like major events courses. but a regular pga tour event there c=actually pretty easy courses tbh .
People comment that 10,000 hours will make "YOU" a pro. ONLY AFTER deciding you are going to change or from the start, learning and performing the fundamentals (REGARDLESS OF THE SCORE.) Then it is 10,000 HOURS OF "STRUCTURED" PRACTICE." 99% won't change their habits to even start the clock! Shooting low 80;s seems close to a 79 average but a lucky 79 is a long way, if even possible for the remaining 1% from a scratch golfer.
Pure athletic talent is the key. It's like a motor in a car, there is no replacement for displacement. For instance, give someone like Michael Jordan all the fancy coaching as a kid, and he is winning 30 majors.
Think it would take far more than that. Even taking one of the greatest ever athletes who is already good at golf, and has phenomenal power and obviously an eye for a ball from his baseball...winning 30 majors is more than a stretch. For him to be a tour pro with couple of wins would be a phenomenal achievement. To suggest 30 majors between 1983 and 2013 (20-50) is spitting in the face of tiger woods
It means that if you score gross 65 your nett score is 71. So while everyone else takes their handicap off their score they add their handicap to their score.
Usually love this podcast but... Today your guest I felt came across a little too negatively. I hope it's just me and he is normaly more positive. Yes realistic expectations are good as is a strong work ethic etc. However, could you imagine if a young Ian Poulter had been told you must be +6 or you won't be good enough and gave up? I belive he turned pro at 4 handicap selling his mars bars and giving lessons as a young assistant not of +6 etc. Young golfers obviously mature differently and some rise to the challenge as Poults did and thrive on competition. Also some young hot shot + handicap golfers don't mature and fade away under pressure so it's obviously not all about being +6 handicap. I would hate any young gofers 18-22 listening to this podcast today, who play off or around scratch to listen to this and think I'll give up as I will never be good enough. Hope the feedback helps your channel is usually so postive. Keep up the good work. 👍
I agree with you 100%. This came across to me as well and it appeared that he would not entertain going the extra mile to coach the likes of a 4 handicap or more kid. It would be too much work and beneath him. The American College system is an obvious bonus over there. There is nothing like that outside of the States.
It s in the mind. I ve seen Euro pro tour players you’d think were world beaters yet put a Tommy Gainey or Alan Doyle(in his prime) or Hosung Choi they’d get battered. There has to be aptitude but so many young players are playing launch monitor instead of golf. Where to put the ball, proper course management, one shot shape to rely on under pressure. A mate of mine was a good prospect in a group of high achievers but the worst player out of the 5 is on the European tour.
@@alanduncan9204 defo👍 Plus too I think over coaching can be one of the worsest things for any sports person let alone specialists coaches for short and long game etc. Imagine if Luara Davies, Sandy Lyle, Trevino or my hero Seve had a team of coaches in the teens? 🤔
I think he is just being realistic and trying to make people realise the level you need to be if you have apsirations of becoming a tour pro. He does not literally mean you need a +6 handicap, but that is the sort of level you need to be able to play to. Basically if your not going round off the back tees in the mid 60s regularly, your probably not even going to get through Q School. 2019 European Tour Q school at Lumine. -15 over 6 rounds only got 10th place. That is under intense pressure on a tour set up course.
@@adriangeorge9425 absolutely but it came across to me that the guest was saying if your not +3-6 give up ie if your 4-0 give up you haven't got it. Young players 18-22 have so much time to improve and rearlise thier potential especially under pressure like Poulter who was 4 handicap when he turned pro. I Also question too much coaching at a young age especially specialist coaches, mentors would be my preferred choice for young players developing but I maybe wrong of course. 👍
Here's some advice: if you have talent, play your home course 4 straight days walking. If you can shoot 4 under or better, everyday, take your game to a higher level. If you cant do it a home, you'll not do it anywhere else.
When Faldo is saying “wow this guy is fresh on the tour at 31” you will need to rethink your “prime age” for golf, Dan Yes the 31 year old will be me 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Kinda really exemplifies the parental impact on top tier athletes. Yes obviously the teenager has to put the work in, but their parents had to hand them a club at four years old and spend their entire childhood training them.
To get an official handicap you need to join a golf club and submit 3 scorecards that are marked and signed by another member. Unofficially, there are websites you can submit scores on that will calculate a handicap for you.
Hey Rick, have you considered releasing the entire podcast video on youtube? With work from home, I don't drive much anymore. So I tend to favor youtube over audio-only content.
I think I’ve just realised I know nothing about handicaps, scratch golfers and tour pros. All those +s and numbers have just confused me which obviously means what I thought I knew, I clearly don’t. 😂🤣😳
+ just means you owe the course that amount of shots. So a +6 will be expected to shoot 6 under par. A 6 handicap gets 6 shots so the course owes them 6 shots and they will be expected to score 6 over par over 18 holes.
@@craigmiskin7293 I'm sure the likes of us commenting on TH-cam videos won't need to worry about being a + handicap player.. Lol But it is handy to know. Happy golfing dude.
@@craigmiskin7293 I was an 18 handicapper a year and a half ago, now down to 9 and ordering some blades to blend in to my set. My best round is level par over 9 holes and +1,over 18 on a par 70. Keep going, play as much as you can and it will come down.
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Find the FULL podcast with Dan here on Apple podcasts - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rick-shiels-golf-show/id1406443091#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-8361303
Even a year later this is a great podcast.. be interesting to break down the and interview the specialsts ie Karl morris - mental game, dan grave short game, IMG golf mgt etc
One thing missing - No mention of the "Bank of Mum and Dad". Without a lot of money put into a young player - no one can get on tour. Membership, clubs, bags, clothes, shoes, gloves, balls, tees, transport to and from....need I go on? People in the background have to make more sacrfices than the kid with the grooved swing.
Very true. At bare minimum you have to have all the equipment, maybe a net to practice with, and transportation to ranges, coaches, or matches. The richest kids have the BEST equipment, coaches, facilities, simulators even inside of their homes. That's why I think golf is kinda of pay to win sport. It requires some talent of course but those kids with the lessons their whole lives and the golf simulators inside of their homes with the best clubs fitted for them will be better 90% of the time. A perfect example is Tiger's son. Kid will have the best coaches, clubs, facilities, and no shortage of money of course. He will guaranteed make it on tour.
Bank of mom and dad, or community support. Lanto Griffin lost his father at an early age and the local club gave him membership and pro gave free lessons. Won his first PGA tourney last year.
There are obvious exceptions but yeah you look at pros on tour and a lot of them grew up being members at private clubs, playing every day in the summer, going round and round with their buddies when they're young. If you're poor, good luck. You better hope your talent level is greater than your mom/dad's pocket book.
Still an elitist sport in that respect
Correct but it's living vicariously with you son or daughter, your mum and dad couldn't afford it 🤔 how good would it be walking down the road hole with your son ,1 shot ahead of john Rham ,it would be priceless ,😘👍
Just to share another little story as well; I was fortunate enough to play a round of golf with a young local lad who had not long turned Pro (through a mutual friend). He played for England School Boys and he turned Pro off +6!!! He was just ridiculously good I've never seen anything like it. He shot 6 under when I played with him incidentally and it didn't even look like he broke sweat. It's a bit of a cliche but they play a different game. They hit the ball that hard and far, the ball flight is totally different, it's like they're playing with a special ball or something. He took lines off the tee you don't even think are possible, there's no such thing as a par 5, just long par 4s, and inside of 150 yards it was within 6-8ft every time.
Now here's the crazy part, as good as that lad is, even he's struggling to really make it!! He's knocking around the Challenge Tour and Euro Pro etc and he's had the odd invite for European Tour and apart from one or two respectable finishes, he's not done a great deal. He has had a few injuries though I believe.
I still look back on that round with him regularly and think what a privilege it was to see that up close. Absolutely different gravy!
It must mess a lot of people's heads up when they dominate their local scene and suddenly they step up to the next level and EVERYONE is just as good as you or better.
As a former scratch golfer, someone who is an 18 handicap is way closer to a scratch level than a scratch is to a tour pro.
Definitely. It's easier to drop from an 18 handicap down to single digits because your mistakes are so abundant and easy to correct. Slashing a stroke once you're a single already is insanely difficult, and once you, if you can, get to a 0, you gotta be an absolute monster all the time on the course to be a +. THEN you gotta extend that to 6-7 (if not more) more strokes to even consider competing on tour. The naivete of some scratch golfers that aren't plus, that think they can compete professionally, is insane.
@@TheSlyBadger very well put. At my best I was a scratch playing the same easy course multiple times a week. A good friend of mine is a pro who has made PGA tour cuts. The gap between my game and his game is massive haha. Hoping to get him in one of my videos and break it down soon
True
@@Jabo-2126 lol it's certainly fun to chase getting better. When golfers lose that drive, they typically quit.
O 100%...not even a question
Love Dan. In every video you have done he comes across so down to earth all the time.
Awesome podcast Rick, you are an absolute legend! Your honesty about scores and your game makes you so much more authentic than a lot of other channels, and it also makes the days you score really well even cooler, because we know that you have worked for it and deserve it. I wish you all the best with life, golf and your family.
I'm 48, Dan we have 2 years to whip me into shape for the senior tour
Are you still on process for this goal !?
I think Rick showed the difference in those who will make it and who won’t. “So you won’t have any fun” is what Rick said but the true greats of the game ARE having fun. They wouldn’t rather be anywhere else than on a golf course playing at the highest level so in their minds they aren’t missing out on any fun, the journey and destination are fun enough
The fun is in the grind of getting better and levelling up
I’m 25 and have become obsessed with golf. I practice 6 to 7 times a week for two to three hours at a time. I don’t really do it because I have hopes of becoming a pro golfer. I only do it because I find it fun. To me, there is no better feeling than hitting golf balls straight down the range. I’m unemployed right now and when I get a job this might change, but I’ll enjoy it while I have it.
It won’t change trust me. I’m 27 and find/make the time working 40-50 hours a week
Don’t do it to go pro. I picked up golf in 2 months (it took me to get good) and got low 80’s. Just to say how fast I got good. But the amount of time, money, and inner circle hyping it I got so burnt out and haven’t picked up clubs in months. I was also spending 1.3k a minute, 70plus hours a week since I have a club close to me and netting in my yard. I say this to say. Keep it fun and if the opportunity comes do it but don’t lose yourself like I did. 😊
@@Topgear.filmer all due respect it sounds like you have more talent than you realize and need to understand how rare it is to have those talents in the sport of golf. You could still make a decent/healthy living playing in amateur tournaments if you get to a certain level and you don’t have a coach to pay or anything like you really should dive deeper and consider the opportunity you might have. Just my two cents.
@@donjon1179 hes lying g
@@joemakepeace6652 Yeah. He probably is. It took me two years to break 80. My lowest score right now is 76.
Exactly my down fall. I started when I was 16 and by the time I turned 18 years old I was playing off 9. I was playing/practicing everyday. I was having lessons regular and I was shooting mid 70 rounds. But when I turned 18, i discovered alcohol and woman and i ruined everything. But it proved that I never had what it took.
Love the snip it’s on here. Don’t always have the time to listen to the entire podcast so it’s nice getting to see some of the highlights
Hearing different coaches talk about what it takes to be a tour pro and just how good the tour pros are just blows my mind every time. I feel like a lot of people still think of golf as a old mans game. It has definitely got better but I don't think people realize how good pro golfers are. In my opinion golf is the hardest sport to get good at.
Development years 18-22 is 💯 right. I averaged 67 on my junior circuit. I'm in my 30s now, can't break par and I've never been happier playing golf. The grind will change you if you're not built for it.
Nice Camaro bro. Love it Got an f body my self
Really enjoyed listening to Dan. Great topic. Note I've been watching golf since the 60's and Dan's comment about the level of competition right now is bang on. There are so many great players now that almost anyone can win from week to week. And they're a lot more physically fit. Hope you have Dan on again. PS-when I hear Dan talk about young 16-17 year olds who don't really pan out I couldn't help but think of a guy in the US named Ty Tryon. One win on Hooters Tour. That's it.
I grew up playing with a golfer who turned pro around 10 years ago off +3/+4 and he played europro for a couple of years. Your guest is spot on as even back then at 17/18 years old pre turning pro playing our local club comps off the white tees -2 was his rare bad round (even in wet weather or fairly windy conditions) and on the flip side his low rounds in good conditions was -7/-8.
It’s just so amazing that as a parent after hearing this...there are other parents that push they’re children through this process just to live through them and not let golf just be a good fun sport.
To be the best in world at anything it will never be just “enjoy” it.
Definitely the best podcast I've seen. +6!! Crazy! So different to back in the day.
Thank you!!!
It is reassuring to know that Rick is as close to a tour pro in handicap as a 12 handicap is to Rick 🤣 great episode once again 👍
Dan is absolutely incredible! Great insights and extremely knowledgeable
Talent is one thing and it's important, but unwavering belief is what separates the high achievers.
👌🏻
Golf is a game of consistency. You really can't expect to develop best consistency until you quit growing.
Good point of managing your expectations. I played 2x in Sunday competition with a young player who wanted to go on the Challenge tour, he was playing of +3 and both times i thought there was a lot of skill missing in his game (I was was playxing of 22 at that time but still could see, that he is not going to make it) and surely both times he walked out of the competition because his score was so poor. A few years later I went for a fitting and while I was talking to the guy, he mentioned he was playing US-College golf at +5 and I asked him if he ever tried it on tour or if he ever considered to go on tour. His reply was stunning to me, he said: "No my putting was too bad". I am sure he was super realistic about his game at an early stage of life/golfing career. I was stunned by that answer, as I was told by friend, that P. Harrington i.e. became a pro at +3 and later went on to become one of the greatest golfers.
Equally I know of plenty of +6 or better golfers at 15 who made a local tour and disappeared. There’s plenty of low handicap players who worked hard and are now best in the world. Do not put your in a box, work hard and you’ll be a good chance. 🙏.
Very interesting. One obvious thing you see with scratch players at you local is that most courses are 6000/6500 yards, par 4's 370-410 on average. Take those guys to a championship layout and all of a sudden they're 8 handicappers at best!!
Any plans to put the whole podcast on video? Great podcast guys.
Potentially!!! Thanks for watching
Absolutely loved this podcast! (still haven't listened to all of it). Dan is so knowledgable about golf and the golf swing I could listen to him talk about it all day long. I was one of the guys that you effectively referenced in the podcast; I first saw Dan through yours and Pete's videos and then booked in for a lesson with him myself. I had to answer all of those questions like he said and I didn't realise this at the time but I guess I was lucky that he 'agreed' to take me on lol! I've had 4 lessons with him over the last 4 years and in that time I've come down from 18 to 6. Hoping to book another lesson later this year.
“When you go to a local course ask what the course record is and who has it, if it’s the club pro don’t break the record” Ben hogan
i dont get it
Ya why not
Byron Nelson was the one who said that as well.
Good podcast a few corrections
top tour pros +10hdcp
scratch golfers would shoot between 82-90 on most tour courses
Great that! So good to finally hear about how hard it is to get on tour! +6 is incredible! I’m plus six for my first 2 holes!!! 🤣🤣
+6 is prob the bare minimum skill level...and what one would make on a bad day. Realistically speaking.
+6 at club level wouldn't cut it by itself. You need to be a +6 everywhere, not just at your home club. It's a big difference!
Matt Southgate and Richard McEvoy both use the course I play at to practice on - one of the people I play with who plays off scratch played with McEvoy the other week in a friendly 4 ball and he shot 61 - 10 under! The level is ridiculous - then imagine the jump from these European tour guys (making cuts and McEvoy has 1 win on tour) to the top level PGA household names
Really good stuff. You guys are killing it on these blogs. Love it. Thanks Guy and Rick
It’s like this. To even make it past q school, you gotta play the best golf of your life, for 4 straight days. Even then it may not be enough. If you can show up and shoot 64 on your home course with ease, your ready.
It's like that. love it! Short and sweet. The best almost anyone has ever seen at home! EVER!!!
I went to the local Korn Ferry Qualifier Q-School tourney last year. This kid from Oklahoma in 3 rounds, in the wind, pins tucked, 7200 yards shot -19.
The following month he shot -5 in 4 rounds and missed cut. See you next year.
Entry Fee was $3500
Brutal standard.. makes you appreciate the top guys' abilities
The other difference to the weekend golfer is... Perfectly groomed golf courses, no crappy conditions to deal with. Unless you put it in the water, you aren't losing a ball, there is always someone nearby. They fix their ball marks. If they shank it it hits someone in the gallery and bounces back. The best equipment. All of this adds up to a few shots.
The rough at alot of championship courses is far worse, especially links courses.
Not only that but the greens are non comparable. A weekend warrior isn’t stopping that ball dead on the greens that the pros play on or judging speeds, lines etc etc
@@mickydrippin3105length is longer, rough tends to be thinner on championship courses however.
I’ve subscribed. Looking forward to videos from this INSANE studio.
Great conversation. Illuminated so much in a short few minutes. Would love to train with Dan one day.
I heard Lee Westwood and Luke Donald both got to -5 HC at 16 years old, and that was 30 odd years ago...
I would love to able to watch the full podcast. I like the visuals
Very inciteful as to how the pro game has changed. From my experiences from over 20 years ago it has significantly changed to break in. I remember reading about the Leadbetter academy for juniors in the early 2000's and how it was regular school built around teaching junior players to become elite future pro players. Times change that's for sure. Hearing the elite player coach be honest about where you would need to be to realistically have a chance is so refreshing. 20 plus years ago you didn't have that, at least not for me. All I ever heard was you hit it plenty long enough just work on your short game and you will make it. I work a fulltime job now with some scar tissue that I'm still reconciling with from my own failures. I did fall into the trap of girls and alcohol and having a really good time. Before you know it a few years have gone by and not that the moment has passed, but each year it gets harder and harder and the odds begin to really stack up against you.
I enjoyed this. Helps me with my own expectations. It's hard to know just how good these blokes are in a vaccume. And I want to get to the singles in my handicap so it helps to know what actually goes on in these things.
Have to say Dan is the man. Brilliant insight into golf and coaching. Excellent podcast lads 👍🏻
The most interesting golf vid I’ve watched in a long time.
Rick hit it on the money. Monster drives are still 200yrds on a Par 4. Pros are pulling out 7iron and getting on the green with accuracy. Where most Joes can hit a huge a drive but struggle on the next shot with a hybrid 3wood to get close to the green let alone the hole.
Great look into how good the pros are. I’m a single digit hcp and I am fully aware my game is a different universe than those guys.
What a great guest dropping truth bombs!
I have loved listening to Dan. The 1.5 hour flew by today. Another great podcast 5⭐ lads
Thank you Colin!!
How do i listen to this whole podcast??
Let's be fair, a +2 on a bad day is not still shooting under par (unless they play on a very easy course). Plus handicaps are not superheroes. This might shock people, but plus handicaps still shoot 😲 5,6,7 over par sometimes 😲 they just do it much less often, and can also shoot several under par the next round to make up for it.
Full disclosure before someone calls me jealous or something, I'm a 4 h'cap and play with plus handicaps semi-regularly. And they are significantly better than me.
Dan Whittaker is one hell of a coach....good insights
It’s true but I know some lads on the tour who turned pro off 3 handicap and kept improving year on year and got a Europeantour card and then there was ian pouter who turned pro off 2 handicap so there is no rule ⛳️👍👍👍great video
This was very enlightening! Appreciated the inner circle view on what it takes. God bless anyone walking down this road, these major organizations don't seem to care to make it very easy for them.
I would love to watch the WHOLE podcast! I love it
Very interesting content - loved your questions, great stuff!
This is the 3rd time i watched this video. I think its so under rated
Those were some really interesting insights. That was a great interview.......
I'm very happy to hear that the times have gone that someone needs to really mimic a swing but that one is looking to the individual. In top sports things are just at a different level and as I was a pro tennis coach for talented youth (top level) I know this all to well.
So this said ... nice vid of part of the pod cast.
Thx from this now 2 year new-bee in golf and totally in love with this game. 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Another interesting thing is that gaining on your index gets increasingly, dare I say exponentially harder the lower you get. Going from 6 to 5 is way easier than going from +5 to +6.
Love the studio guys
Poulter is an amazing example of the work it takes. Played off about 4 at 17/18 and did his PGA exams and now owns a garage full of Ferraris
Exactly mate👍 handicap isn't everything as a junior player.
I'm sure i've read that his is an unusual story. They wouldn't let him play in club comps when he was effectively working as an assistant pro (so he had an artificially high handicap). They were trying to make him pay green fees to play when he didn't have much money, so he was actually nothing like a 3/4 handicap in terms of standard at the time.
@@nickhood345 I’ve read his book and it doesn’t say anything like that in it. Just said at 17/18 he decided to dedicate himself and see how far he can get but he also wanted to finish his PGA exams before he played full time
@@ianb1813 hand full of us know him and his Brother from the area of South East England and first post up top is correct.
My coach always pulls up videos of Tiger when he is coaching me😂
Rick asked a few times "your maybe on the verge, what you got to do at 22 to make it"? If you're asking that question at 22 your probably already to late! I would say your in a way better position if you and your coach is asking that very question when the players breaking through at 15 or even 18 years old, it's like most thing's, if you want to be one of the best you need to get in early and stay focused/consistent.
A tour golfer is on a different planet to a scratch handicapper.
It could come down to natural talent or it could be they've got a better team around em or it could be dedication, or a mixture of all 3.
Great podcast. Really interesting.
Why is there only small clips of each podcast? Any chance of uploading the full podcast videos on to TH-cam too? Thanks
The dedication is fun...
In golf, in you’re good enough you will make it. Forget handicap. So many people are so focused on handicap. There is a ton of players that have an “ego” handicap(especially younger players with the new handicap system) that they can’t actually play to and it gets them nowhere, so don’t get disheartened by this video if you’re that person that is going to work harder than anyone else to achieve your dreams!
Marc Leishman played his home course off +7, if my memory is correct he shot 65 off the stick.
The cost must be incredible!!
Dear Rick, I get it that the red Monster on the left shelf matches the color scheme, but I feel like I speak for many of your fans here, you deserve better! Replace it with a watermelon red bull. It will still match the color scheme and you'll have the quality of product that a respected man such as yourself deserves!
Regards,
A big fan.
Best podcast to date 👏
Thanks!
Can somebody explain what it means to be plus in a handicap? Thanks 🙏
It means your better than scratch (0 handicap). You have to give shots back to the course. i.e. a plus 6 handicap on a par 72 would have to shoot 66 to play to their handicap.
Basically they make that many birdies/eagles they are expected to shoot (a +6 golfer) 6 under par.
Pretty standard Saturday morning really..lol
a mate i work with was off +4 he missed qualifying for the open by a shot he never made it in the end and hes a good golfer
I'm 40, playing off 32,6 - so your telling me there's a chance? 😂
Watching valderama DP world tour event recently commentator said 1 handicapper receives 12 shots when he plays off the tips. I’m off 1 and would say I’m at least 12 shots worse than Rory. Our club champion is +3 and has been +5 and unfortunately he’s nowhere near good enough to play on challenge tour he plays with euro pro tour guy who has done nothing as a pro and gets beat easily. I’m a decent golfer it’s hard to knock 12 shots off my game. These guys are just so good.
This podcast is good
All one needs to do ( wanna be a pro) is looks at Monday Q scores ! It you’re not posting low-mid 60s.. become a club pro
I think anyone who thinks they are good enough to go down this route really needs to get on a tougher course and play it from the back tees. My local course from the back tees is a par 71, 7100 yards rated at 73.8, slope 139. Playing par 3's that are around or over 200 yards gets easy to throw shots away. Par 4s that constantly require long irons into small greens. Par 5s that unless your knocking it well over 300 yards your not getting home in 2. This course can be tough to shoot low scores on. Being able to knock it round your local course that's under 6500 yards in the 60s is not going to make it.
Really enjoyed that
Great podcast .
but only a handful of tournament pros on the PGA are at +8-9 each week and even less remain there for any length of time. What's Adam Scott's "handicap currently"?
Here’s the key: Money. You can’t get coached by these guys and play tons of golf unless you’ve got tons of money.
actually these tour courses are and very finaly cut greens and fringes, and good conditions well kept courses . are easier then a lot of the average public golf courses. the greens roll more true and the fairways are easier to make good contact . ive shot my best scores in some of these golf tour golf courses. there not that hard actually. now some are very hard like major events courses. but a regular pga tour event there c=actually pretty easy courses tbh .
People comment that 10,000 hours will make "YOU" a pro. ONLY AFTER deciding you are going to change or from the start, learning and performing the fundamentals (REGARDLESS OF THE SCORE.) Then it is 10,000 HOURS OF "STRUCTURED" PRACTICE." 99% won't change their habits to even start the clock! Shooting low 80;s seems close to a 79 average but a lucky 79 is a long way, if even possible for the remaining 1% from a scratch golfer.
Dan is best avoided as a coach
Pure athletic talent is the key. It's like a motor in a car, there is no replacement for displacement. For instance, give someone like Michael Jordan all the fancy coaching as a kid, and he is winning 30 majors.
Think it would take far more than that. Even taking one of the greatest ever athletes who is already good at golf, and has phenomenal power and obviously an eye for a ball from his baseball...winning 30 majors is more than a stretch. For him to be a tour pro with couple of wins would be a phenomenal achievement. To suggest 30 majors between 1983 and 2013 (20-50) is spitting in the face of tiger woods
How much practice? 10,000 hours! Malcolm Gladwell Outliers
That theory came along many years before gladwell
Does plus 6 mean you get 6 extra shots to make par or you get 6 less shots to make par?
It means that if you score gross 65 your nett score is 71. So while everyone else takes their handicap off their score they add their handicap to their score.
Usually love this podcast but... Today your guest I felt came across a little too negatively. I hope it's just me and he is normaly more positive. Yes realistic expectations are good as is a strong work ethic etc. However, could you imagine if a young Ian Poulter had been told you must be +6 or you won't be good enough and gave up? I belive he turned pro at 4 handicap selling his mars bars and giving lessons as a young assistant not of +6 etc. Young golfers obviously mature differently and some rise to the challenge as Poults did and thrive on competition. Also some young hot shot + handicap golfers don't mature and fade away under pressure so it's obviously not all about being +6 handicap. I would hate any young gofers 18-22 listening to this podcast today, who play off or around scratch to listen to this and think I'll give up as I will never be good enough.
Hope the feedback helps your channel is usually so postive. Keep up the good work. 👍
I agree with you 100%. This came across to me as well and it appeared that he would not entertain going the extra mile to coach the likes of a 4 handicap or more kid. It would be too much work and beneath him. The American College system is an obvious bonus over there. There is nothing like that outside of the States.
It s in the mind. I ve seen Euro pro tour players you’d think were world beaters yet put a Tommy Gainey or Alan Doyle(in his prime) or Hosung Choi they’d get battered. There has to be aptitude but so many young players are playing launch monitor instead of golf. Where to put the ball, proper course management, one shot shape to rely on under pressure. A mate of mine was a good prospect in a group of high achievers but the worst player out of the 5 is on the European tour.
@@alanduncan9204 defo👍 Plus too I think over coaching can be one of the worsest things for any sports person let alone specialists coaches for short and long game etc. Imagine if Luara Davies, Sandy Lyle, Trevino or my hero Seve had a team of coaches in the teens? 🤔
I think he is just being realistic and trying to make people realise the level you need to be if you have apsirations of becoming a tour pro. He does not literally mean you need a +6 handicap, but that is the sort of level you need to be able to play to. Basically if your not going round off the back tees in the mid 60s regularly, your probably not even going to get through Q School. 2019 European Tour Q school at Lumine. -15 over 6 rounds only got 10th place. That is under intense pressure on a tour set up course.
@@adriangeorge9425 absolutely but it came across to me that the guest was saying if your not +3-6 give up ie if your 4-0 give up you haven't got it. Young players 18-22 have so much time to improve and rearlise thier potential especially under pressure like Poulter who was 4 handicap when he turned pro. I Also question too much coaching at a young age especially specialist coaches, mentors would be my preferred choice for young players developing but I maybe wrong of course. 👍
Here's some advice: if you have talent, play your home course 4 straight days walking. If you can shoot 4 under or better, everyday, take your game to a higher level. If you cant do it a home, you'll not do it anywhere else.
Excellent insight, I wonder how much effort it would take myself (age: 28) alongside working with the likes of Dan to get me from 13 to scratch...😂😂😂
When Faldo is saying “wow this guy is fresh on the tour at 31” you will need to rethink your “prime age” for golf, Dan
Yes the 31 year old will be me 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Kinda really exemplifies the parental impact on top tier athletes. Yes obviously the teenager has to put the work in, but their parents had to hand them a club at four years old and spend their entire childhood training them.
Shane Lowry was +6 as an teenager and enjoyed life
Smiley Kaufman...the trek to the top is slippery.
Big Heart
Big Balls
Big Dreams
Thought it was Niall Horan in the thumbnail
How do I find out my handicap?
To get an official handicap you need to join a golf club and submit 3 scorecards that are marked and signed by another member. Unofficially, there are websites you can submit scores on that will calculate a handicap for you.
Hey Rick, have you considered releasing the entire podcast video on youtube? With work from home, I don't drive much anymore. So I tend to favor youtube over audio-only content.
I think I’ve just realised I know nothing about handicaps, scratch golfers and tour pros. All those +s and numbers have just confused me which obviously means what I thought I knew, I clearly don’t. 😂🤣😳
+ just means you owe the course that amount of shots. So a +6 will be expected to shoot 6 under par.
A 6 handicap gets 6 shots so the course owes them 6 shots and they will be expected to score 6 over par over 18 holes.
@@willfieldiii7150 cheers for that. Never heard of the +s for owing the course shots
@@craigmiskin7293 I'm sure the likes of us commenting on TH-cam videos won't need to worry about being a + handicap player.. Lol
But it is handy to know.
Happy golfing dude.
@@willfieldiii7150 oh yeah. No chance of ever being a +golfer. Managed to break 90 this week so now on to breaking 85.
@@craigmiskin7293 I was an 18 handicapper a year and a half ago, now down to 9 and ordering some blades to blend in to my set.
My best round is level par over 9 holes and +1,over 18 on a par 70.
Keep going, play as much as you can and it will come down.
Oh so daunting at 25 😮