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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- Do you think the pieces are traced, or is it just a coincidence given their similar art styles and inspiration in vkei and anime?
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So. I had a friend who asked if they could trace shapes in my art for practice, and they even sent me stuff and I was like "Wait? I do that?" Discovering i didnt even notice things in my art that someone else did notice. Then they drew their own original piece with the new stuff they learned. My art style is semi-realistic and theirs was very cartoon like, verging on chibi. Seeing how after studying my art they improved with certain things they wanted to was so cool, it wasn't my style it just added to their understanding, AND they never once FULLY TRACED or PUBLICLY POSTED their studies. They also asked for my consent to trace over my stuff for practice. If you want to trace your friends work for practice, this is how you do it.
Exactly!!
Agreed! Permission first!
that's so cooollll
Yeah I’m all for tracing as long as it’s private or disclosed in a post bc it’s a good way to practice especially when you want to study how an artist renders their drawings bc then if it looked wrong you would know that it wasn’t because of proportions
Artist's tracing friend: The movie.
Lol
As soon as I read this comment I realized how long it was💀😭🙏
XD
I sped up this video 2x so I could finish it in 30 minutes. 😂
Lmao
Kat, Mori has done this before with another artist a few years ago, don't believe their crap. I commissioned Gob about a year and a half ago, provided them with all my references for clothing, posing, etc, none of the references contained Mori's art at all and Gob was 100% transparent with the whole process, like we were in voice chat while they were drawing my piece. Gob finished the piece, I absolutely love it, posted the complete work on their socials and now I read Mori's document and they're claiming the piece I commissioned Gob was traced! It was not at all, I messaged Mori with all my references, which by the way none of Mori's art was a part of in those references, showed screenshots of the voice calls, messages, and WIPs Gob gave me during the process and I was immediately blocked, shot down, and ignored. Mori has pulled this exact same shit before and tries to say woe is me every single goddamn time!!!!
tbh these are the most generic poses and compositions ever, and with an anime like artstyle its kinda hard not to have similar porportions.
I do think that the fact that they are friends makes the similarity a little a sus tho since they def saw each others artwork before
That's my take as well. These are poses and compositions I have seen numerous times in various art styles, including anime. The amount of similarities in different pieces does throw me off, though it does seem to be heavy referencing in those pieces.
Hot take- if you are able to trace and render well enough that you can get comms, you are good enough as an artist to not steal from another artist.
Tracing is for learning and you don't ever publish it, especially not without credit or permission.
Good thing they didn't trace
@@imtired927 they did tho
@@Nyxx0010 Did you even look into it or are you just taking words from a yt channel and comments?
@moosemoiker6083 you want me to do a deep dive research about a drama that has no impact on my life? I watched a youtube video where you're open to have your own opinion. Shocking ikr !
@@moosemoiker6083 acting like you didn't see the overlays of the lines matching up
the only thing I see here is two extra anxious people being extra anxious about one another and lack communication
Sometimes it feels like I'm the only artist, who don't care if people reference or even trace my poses... As long as the finished artwork is entirely different from mine, I literally couldn't care less, if the posing is similar.. It seems like such a small and insignificant thing, to ruin your own mental health and friendship over..
Fr, if it's the pose it's fine, if it's a general theme like Halloween, Christmas etc it's fine, but if it's the clothing, hairstyle, or vid idea, that is not fine.
And plus, I feel like people aren't allowed to accuse an artist of doing something they didn't without any proof, and words are not considered proof. Like, someone said that another artist copied a drawing of a CARROT just a carrot, nothing else, not traced, not stolen, just a drawing of a carrot in two different art styles, like, bruh-
@@PebbleNothin Yeeah, fr.. I'm getting a bit tired of the constant drama in the art-community; it's like everybody expects to be 100% original AT ALL TIMES and everything they make, has never been seen before.. Just chill, do art, come on man..
Honestly as an artist I was skeptical. Ya know seems like a coincidence at first but one the side to side it was starting to get pretty sketchy.
Edit: This comment was made before seeing Gob’s doc. I do now just feel a lot of things are a stretch from Mori. Once the lines where confirmed to be moved a bit my opinion immediately swapped. Honestly for someone to accuse a friend of something like this which ends up being a stretch is insane.
I see what's happening here...
Ur nat sly dawg
Honestly I'm more skeptical of call-out posts. Especially the side by side things. Do you know what priming is? Telling someone they're supposed to be similar will automatically make them more likely to think they are. Those poses in the example looked like a big stretch to me. Their hips are sticking out more. The shoulder was more turned on the other. Granted I havent made it through the rest of the video but the start wasn't good to me.
@@wheelsndealz some one here on the comments just said that Mori moved the lines around and admitted that. And I can believe that, the outline in most cases does not match with either Mori's art or Gob's art, the common thing between them is the observance of basic anatomy in basic poses.
@@wheelsndealz No there was definitely over referencing happening but I think Gob used to use Mori's art when he was learning and now the style just stuck. So Mori sees tracing but Gob doesn't because it's just his style.
He denied referencing in this doc but anyone with eyes can see his art style is similar even without priming.
@@scarlen7994 I think tho that their styles are so similar is a point that Mori made, because according to him the guy's style was very different and then suddenly the art style turned into Mori's style. As OP said, generally speaking when you take inspiration from someone that transformation doesn't just happen overnight. Furthermore, as it's typically a gradual thing, you aren't often going to see the style stick so close to just 1 person's work. It will have other stuff added as well because that is literally how styles evolve: you are jamming together all the things you find pleasing aesthetically which then creates something different, even if similar. There's typically gonna be other things that will cause a distinction.
Oh my god. Can I be honest? Time and time again in these stories, there’s a “okay, after this we will cut contact and only speak if absolutely necessary.” And then literally 10 seconds later one of them hits the other up again and they rehash the same thing over and over. It’s exhausting. Like. Cut each other off and get over it oml 😭 the tracing stuff aside, rehashing this blocking stuff and boyfriend stuff… like how are y’all not exhausted 😭
1:04:00 tbh if someone kept bringing up this issue to me, and then relatively soon vagueposting about the same issue after I've blocked them, of course I'd think it's about me even if I hadn't actually done anything. It's not about anxiety or guilt, but putting 2 and 2 together in this context.
Watched through the entire thing and it feels like the entirety of the situation was blown out of proportions. I would have liked to see if Gob's streamed art was different from the art that was accused of being traced/heavily referenced, because wouldn't that show that something's up? Because to be honest, these are the one of the most generic poses and body types I've seen since firing up Pinterest. At this point both of them should have just walked away from each other for their own sakes - Both would have most likely grown apart with their styles eventually, I mean... giving Gob a less of a year to develop after admitting of taking inspiration from Mori (while they were still friends) is a bit harsh.
especially bcs the accuser (i mixed their names already idc anymore) has a history of calling people out for tracing/copying. i get that that's totally something that will weird you out, but if it happens to the frequency of your friend confusing your accusations towards another person to be directed at them it's a little too much imo.
@@Mira-yo4sh It is odd, until the context is taken in that he has messaged him about tracing and ghosted him, made a post, deleted it, then when Gob blocked him after a few months of him being shady towards him, he made the same post of tracing the very hour that he got blocked. Then claimed that "It was the only way to get your attention"
Then afterwards, he posted a document, deleted it, a lot of other people saw it and saved it. Then they stopped talking for well over 7 months until he posted another document but this time it was edited heavily.
Honestly I see and hear both sides and in my personal and artistic option it all stems from very poor communications from both sides.
I think Goob is wrong in not recognizing that their art style has change to be very similar to Mori's style because of their close connection, and Goob admitted to seeing his friend as inspiration already,
However I think Mori has stretched his claims on some works and because of past traumas it leveled to this extreme. He seem to suffer a lot in the past but they recongize those parts about themselves.
Both were at fault for not reaching out sooner to each other and both are at fault for their tweets, both need to distance themselves for good plain and simple.
Hopefully Goob uses different references for posing other then from art and Mori moves of from this situation and if let this die.
This video was great but my god this reminds me of friends falling out in high school then two grown adults.
W vid Kat and keep yapping it's fun!
The argument against Gob is unjustified. There are multiple stretches being made (which you even admitted in the video multiple times) and many points that holds no weight towards the claims against Gob's alleged tracing accusations.
Mori admitted to molding their work to fit their narrative, you also read and shown it on your video at 52:27 but had brushed it off.
This is called tampering with evidence. If it were to be traced it would've matched without needing to be adjusted. This basically makes the Tracing Claim Invalid against Gob.
The argument against having similar poses and character features is also not a strong case either. With your analogy, no one else can pose sitting with their legs crossed, no one else can pose in a seductive manner, no one else can have hair covering half their face, no one else can have their arms crossed. Like that makes no sense. You cannot claim a pose or expression like that. Not only did Gob use their body as some of their reference, which was stated in the google doc, 53:57 which was largely glossed over cause you later than talked about real life referencing at 1:12:27 which will also tie into the next part, as their Pinterest shows multiple real life images. The board is meant to be used for inspiration. If I were to give you a reference to use, I do not expect to see a carbon copy. That's the point of it being a reference, it lets the artist have creative freedom when designing and curating their vision. Just because the end result does not perfectly line up with their mood board in terms of masculinity suddenly makes their Pinterest board not deemed to be a worthy evidence of where Gob was getting his inspiration from is beyond wild to me. And it was never mentioned that Mori is Gob's main inspiration 1:13:08 , that was your own assumption on the matter.
I have been in multiple work calls with Gob and have seen them draw live. I and many others in the community can attest that there was no tracing involved nor was Mori's work ever used when referencing. This video was very biased towards Mori who wanted to air their private convos online. While Gob wanted to part ways for good and then needing to defend himself for the unneceary hate and false accusation.
1:13:27 saying not to send hate does not make people not send hate. Due to this unnessesary video, Gob is getting so much backlash for something he is not guilty of. I suggest doing more research and asking commissioners for their input before posting.
TLDR
Mori tempered with evidence towards the Tracing Claims against Gob.
Poses are similar as they are common, but also no one owns a pose.
Gob wanted to walk away from Mori due to their behaviour towards them but Mori decided to post a doc after getting blocked.
Louder, please!
My thoughts exactly. I didn't know either of the artists but it's definitly biased and out of proportion. And from what I saw in this video it seems to me the one technically more advanced is Gob so it would'nt make sense for him to trace idk
I was told long ago mori is dramatic abd avoid befriending him, which is unfortunate because his style great and role modle worth, so i was kinda sad. It Because he accused tons other ppl of tracing & blocks comm clients.
Gob i watched his streams on twitch.
Honestly
I may just leave the entire community to avoid running into this. This may just be a neat hobby, cuz this happens so often and is so negative and hurts all parties
Seeing this from my own perspective, a lot of things were far stretched and very misunderstood.
Kat has misunderstood firstly, their client Conk had not provided them a reference of any of Mori’s work. It was a meme photo that Conk did not even know who the artist of it was. None of Mori’s work has been provided from any client of Gob’s for reference or to be copied. Gob’s lining isn’t even shown within this video.
The lines within Mori’s redlining has been shifted around, not just the eyes. He had admitted to the eyes, but not the fact he had altered parts of the body lines too, so it will inevitably match up overtop of Gob’s work.
Redlining has been done by others and has been provided within Gob’s document, both exactly lined and only rotated to try and even match it up to see if anything lines up at all- which it doesn’t.
Mori has used many poses of which some of them I have found exactly from Pinterest, pins I have saved myself on my pinboard as an artist that was referenced from. There is no claiming on a pose.
I feel like a lot of these things that had occurred was triggered from the split in their friendship. As open as I am to my own friends and I like to reassure them, I don’t think I would fair mentally if my friend kept coming to me to question me if I’m tracing them, copying them in any sense. It’s uncomfortable and feels very disheartening, and feel as if there is even no trust within anything. People are allowed to be humans, and if I were in an unhealthy situation like that, I would have every right to cut off from it.
The trello and banner wasn’t needed to be included in Mori’s document. The countless of artists I know who had the exact same layout- and just because someone puts their username on their banner does not make it copying? If the O in Gob’s name had hands and everything, I would understand. But it’s a simple username on a banner that I, many artists, Vtubers, Streamers, even TH-camrs do as well.
Many things were misread and brushed off. A lot of Gob’s evidence was there, but brushed off as unimportant. This video feels highly biased as Mori’s evidence was praised, as Gob’s was shrugged off.
I really wish people here, I know a few, but not all would read the documents themselves so they can be evaluated by an individual person instead of relying completely on a TH-camr who has skipped a lot of information on this situation- which was posted without the consent of the two artists to begin with.
The situation had been settled with the two artists, but I’m seeing people going to the smaller artist and attacking them, which is very disheartening.
The video was not made well as a devils advocate, as Mori was being let off of a lot, as for Gob his evidence was being belittled and debunked.
This honestly just strays me further from the art community. If things like this continues to be promoted like this, newer artists or younger ones will come in with the fear of not being able to even fit in with this aggression towards pose and facial ownership, videos like this and the hatred that is spread affects things negatively and stirs up drama.
Reading both sides for me is always an important factor in this, even going to see their other works that’s been made just to get a general idea of what both artists I’m looking at.
If you cannot have witnesses defend you, ones who watched you from the very sketch, can’t have speedpaints, sketches, or layers as evidence, then what is even considered valid evidence anymore?
The art community really has dropped to low standards. It feels disappointing.
Being a rather common viewer to this channel, it disappoints me how this video can consist to be 1 hour and 14 minutes long, yet proceeds to genuinely skip out on so many details on both sides of the artists or brushes over important factors as if they’re nothing.
Louder, please, to the top!
Looking at more comments, but the statement of “Gob admitted he was referencing/inspired by Mori’s art.” In the document the actual screenshots display “I admit I’ve taken inspiration from the lines you draw on chests and how you draw eyes.” Which is a really basic thing, that is not copying or tracing.
I had followed mori for a long time and even remember the post he had made where he expressed that drawing chests with soft, subtle strokes were fun and that others should try it out sometime. He would encourage artists to try a lot of things out, and open with his work to be used as inspiration.
I really don’t feel an artist should be posting things like that and encouraging others like that if they cannot handle the fact of it even happening.
I hadn’t even known about Gob until documents were released. And I feel very bad for everything that is being sent their way from something they simply hadn’t done.
Thought something was off with the video. Honestly I think these daily uploads are affecting how much research kat puts into these things smh.
@@martinatate7894 Yeah, I think so too
Ey Kat, I don't usually comment on videos but I just wanted to let you know that the work you do on these is amazing!! Not only with how much you cover and inform us of, but also the actual videos! As someone who listens to you regularly while drawing, I appreciate a ton that you take the time and effort to describe the pictures/screenshots you talk about instead of just putting them on the screen. I can work much more focused thanks to that haha. Keep up the great work!
relling station
Multiple clients have backed Gob up saying they did not witness any tracing and Gob even shows alot of the refrences in the doc.
Mori has started stuff from really petty stuff in the past and there's a reason why people were believing Gob over Mori. You don't even link the docs. I'm very disappointed in this
For me I think Gob is damning themselves personally. They straight up admit in their own document they ref/inspiration from Mori, but the first page of their document states "I will be truthful: I do not take reference from Mori" which is a blatant lie. I don't really understand why a person who has not done wrong would lie about something like that - if it's just normal referencing then why does it matter? But they choose obfuscation over truth. Furthermore, if a client brings you a picture as a ref for posing or whatever else from an artist that has asked you if you've been using their works for either tracing or anything in those lines, it seems to me that Gob was very remiss on not letting said client know "Hey that artist and I are working out a dispute and I don't think it'd be good for me to include anything from them in any references for me as a result." But instead, that client says they did not even know about it, using that as a point to drive home the idea that "You can't accuse them of this because I asked them to do it without knowing". Seems like a very bad call.
@@yournuubgodYou never even looked at the documents im guessing. It shows in the document what Conk was sending as a reference. It's a shame that the video went and rushed past that because it is in the middle of the document itself. It was a popular twitter/Pinterest meme as "charcoal protector and Charcoal" and half of the entire artwork was cut out. I really wouldn't take things from channels who do these video for drama alert purposes and views
I've worked with Gob in the past for a piece and they showed me step by step their process. I provided all the references and Mori still thought Gob had traced one of their pieces despite me messaging Mori with all the references I provided not matching up to any of their own works. Like I totally agree with u Mori is just looking to start shit like they did a couple of years ago.
its them getting pissy over the behavior that makes me not believe them. when you are friends with someone subconsciously you copy small things about them especially if you like that person, this is normal. Its the reason why you may repeat phrases your friends say or speak in the same tone of voice or maybe you start thinking like them. Humans have influence over each other.
Yeah sure you can copy the way your friends speak but with art? That doesn't really happen. Though a lot of context is missing from this video
A LOT of content and context was missed, which is odd for this channel but ill just chop it up to make not enough time,
here so i encourage you guys go look at the post and comments yourself.
*chalk it up
Ts a whole ass movie, 1 hour talking about one situation is CRAZY😭🙏🙏
It's just odd to look at because Mori has admitted in comments that he moved lines around. Plus, the lines do not match up in Reflgob's document (when I looked at them), the lines really don't match at all.
Plus the poses are just generic poses or poses that clients picked out and send for him to take inspiration from. I could see unconscious inspiration from it, but not tracing whatsoever.
@@moosemoiker6083 wait wait Mori moved lines and ADMITTED THAT? Oh, that situation was already shady and sus enough, but with that info-....
@@tonysparda9281No yeah, he admitted to moving eyes and pieces of the artwork when someone asked why the lines weren't matching up and seemed purposeful. I even did my own line over and nothing really matches up.
I just wish that this channel would of gone and also showed the images in Gob's documents that showed comparisons instead of only Mori's
@@moosemoiker6083 same, but u know, who need the unpopular opinion, yeah?
I feel so sorry for Gob
@@tonysparda9281 I do too, it just sucks how this whole thing has been going round and round. Especially with his health issues and everything else.
CSP actually has an option where you can set up all your drawings to be recording already when you create a new canvas
was gonna say this It's honestly really easy to do
Its depends if you have CSP Pro or EX version, because I have CSP Pro and it doesn't have timelaspe unfortunately that's why i got Procreate instead.
@@owlsgurl i have pro and it does have timelapses
@@novembers_GH0ST I couldnt find it and i looked in the settings. Thank you for this information, I appreciated it
@novembers_GH0ST might be an old version they have. I still have the 1.__ version and havebt updated. I havent checked to see if itll do the timelapse, but when i got it it wasnt an option and i havent updated/paid for the new version so i doubt mine has it
As a procreate user i usely (somtimes i forget) use the private photos feature to hide color,charater, or clothing references since i hate how they show up in the speed paint and i have the wonderful problom of leaveing them thire until the drawing is pretty much done. Its always sad to see it miss used.
You can’t have a boba sipping profile picture because the pose is too similar to other artists boba sipping profile picture, that’s essentially your argument 😭
I’m joking but you know, that’s essentially what you’re saying
People who draw the most basic ass poses in a basic anime style and cry that they think people are tracing are actually wild
so true
This.. this whole drama is ridiculous lmao.
If 2 artists drawings lineup, or almost do, you can be sure its traced. Unless both artists happen to use the same reference photo and traced shapes or whatever. That can result in similar results too.
However having the same width, flow and shape of things is not a coincidence, no matter how basic the composition is.
the accuser's art uses the most average and common compositions ever, ofc their art is gonna line up with other art.
@@VonVikoGoatEverything is 1 to 1. Why defend a tracer with ALL the evidence? 30 examples?
@@Skykristal Mori literally moved lines around and admitted that.
@VonVikoGoat okay? It's still traced why are you defending it?
@@Nyxx0010 it's literally not , lines don't match unless you manipulate them like Mori did. The common thing in the proportions of the faces is the drawing base. Tracing is stealing lines, not ideas or poses that no one has a copyright to.
4:11 I had no idea this feature existed until now. All of my Timelapse’s show every photo I use to reference :( which kinda sucks but at least people won’t accuse me of AI or tracing artists
It's literally just tracing a pose? That's not copying someone's art. I could, right now, find a ton of pictures, real life or drawn, trace the poses and save them for use in future art pieces. You then take the trace and use it as a skeleton to build upon with your own style/ideas. No one automatically knows how to properly draw bodies. This is literally how you learn to do so.
Honestly, everyone should look at 6:24 and 53:49 in the video. To my understanding, this situation just seems out of proportion like others have mentioned, but probably... just maybe.. because the accused is going reverse on a previously established statement between the two in DMS. " I have not been tracing or referencing from Mori " is really far from " I will admit I've taken inspiration- " [ Specifically on specific aspects of their artstyle ]. Idk it just feels like downplaying the whole situation entirely added fuel to the fire.
I have had issues with goob and his friends before over reacting, making things up, and reaching to confirm their feelings…. So because of that i can see why people would not side with them.
@@eggolego8723 Could I have an example of them doing that?
@@moosemoiker6083 Pretty sure his friend deleted the post but they accused me of copying and not only reached about another design I made, they accused me of bringing other people into the drama when they quiet literally did the same thing, they also support an artist who has copied other peoples designs and is blacklisted by multiple ppl and all around just very hypocritical.
And according to others in the comments goobie has done similar so….
@@eggolego8723 Oh damn. I'm a bit confused though, was it him or his friend? Like the one who was supporting an artist like that?
@@eggolego8723 so are you talking about goobie or gob? im sorry im getting so confused cause in the video they said that goob/gooby was a nickname for gob in a discord server aaa
@@moosemoiker6083It was his friend but goobie still actively supported his friend while they were being a hypocrite and is now doing similar
things.
As someone who uses Procreate for all of my digital art, idk why they have the hide an image feature. I think it’s a little silly tbh
All the comments saying "it's not traced" when it's also about heavily referencing? It's obvious. Goob in the dms said it himself he uses moris work as inspo.
People calling mori sensitive obviously don't share that kind of anxiety. You could say the exact same about goob but it's a bias point.
Edit: you guys are actually insane for thinking people who express their feelings while also having anxiety are intentionally trying to hurt others. Amazing you've never experienced pain before.
Mori being overly sensitive cause they have anxiety. Doesn't justify them being overly sensitive
@triggerfairy4070 bro what....lol ok.
Gob in DMs stated that he took inspiration the way Mori drew the eyes somewhat and bust in his artworks. You're calling it a bias point when almost half of all the comments are bashing Gob and harassing him on his page
like referencing is completly fine. yea some pieces look really same but u find so much references and okay yea the mouth and eyes line up but thats some normal face things. he doesnt own the concept of drawing faces like that Lol. im just thinking that only bc some lines lines up its not tracing. the character design is unique and not copied at all
Having anxiety is no excuse to intentional enforce anxiety upon others. The same like someone with an agression Problem - it's no excuse to lash out and hurt others.
People need to do better. Harm caused with their hands is still harm, No matter if it came from agression, anxiety, ignorance or any other trait
For anyone who wants auto-save timelapses in CSP, toggle the record button when no files are open, and it'll default to on for everything :)
Nothing proves anything anymore. We can't trust timelapses, sketches, layers... How do you even defend yourself these days?
By being honest from start to finish. I think the fact that Gob states that he refs/inspirations from Mori and then later denies any of that is damning in itself.
@@yournuubgod u r so naive. Ppl can just don't trust u, even if you was honest in the past, thay can just say "well yeah but Now u r lying"
@@yournuubgod u r just naive, don't you? People still can say "well NOW u r lying" even if u was honest in the past.
@@EvanBear You can't, sadly. Because I guess, as soon as you have a fallout from a larger artist with a bigger audience, there's going to be issues from channels who love large artists and don't look into the situation/literally rushed through all Gob's evidence. Like over 50 minutes looking at Mori's document and then around 20 looking at Gob's?
People draw too many conclusions and not to mention that people are thinking that Conk provided a reference sheet of Mori's art? It had the exact reference inside Gob's document but that apparently isn't worthy to look at.
For anyone wondering the reference, it was a twitter/Pinterest meme of "Charcoal protector and Charcoal"
@@yournuubgod happy someone caught it
im just going to put this out there. any one who accuses of cheating is a cheater themselves
I mean, 2 of my friends found those stealing and copying their work as their own, so that’s not always right. Sometimes a person could come from a traumatic background where trust issues is the source.
@hirahiro2331 nope I grew up in foster care and was homeless as a kid. It's harder to have more trust issues then me. I will repeat myself anyone who's calls someone a cheater is a cheater themselves. If I seen some one coping my style, I would be flattered. And Noone owns a style. And you are trying to say it is OK to lie and call others names because you are insecure and can't trust people
@@ItzBlind Imma be blunt.
No one asked. This isn’t a trauma-dumping game and that’s private. I get you sharing but you are one of a billions of people who’s got a shitty past and present and if fate keeps down this path, a shitty future. Saying that “no one has more trust issues than me” is you downplaying others who possibly have their own experiences that led to their current circumstances. Not only that, it’s the internet. Not everyone will believe you and that can cause backlash. Sometimes fatal. I only mentioned trauma because of the video, nothing more. Please be mindful of what you say before it’s used against you. Keep personal issues personal. Be vague and general.
Back to the actual conversation.
Honestly…I’d be flattered too because that means my art is good enough for others to learn or “learn” from. But if my bank is looking empty because there’s an imposter, we have a problem. You’re right, no one owns anything, as it’s free game, but I’m sure if you saw a game character, you could tell me the company. The style is not owned but rather a fancy signature. If you know ATLUS, you know their games based off their signature style: Persona 5, Catherine, their newest game, etc. You would see it as the ATLUS artstyle since it’s commonly associated with them. That’s what Mori was getting at. He felt as if someone was mimicking his signature and due to trauma, it only amplified that belief. Gob does share similarities but at the end of the day, it is what it is.
Quick example: you are playing kahoot in class (I just heard the theme play in my head) and a classmate cheats by actively pressing the wrong answer on your screen. You accuse them of cheating. So does also that make you a cheater? See it doesn’t always work out? Sometimes, you’re not a cheater crying cheater. Like she said, just a lose-lose situation.
@hirahiro2331 your friend mooring 100% copies others and I didn't trauma dump. I use my one experance to prove you wrong. Go make a video crying and making up drama.
@@hirahiro2331 and you s
Ask cause you puked nonsense on my comment loser
I use clip studio, you don’t need to click record whenever starting a piece. As long as you turned on the record feature once, it’s always recording. Other than when I just downloaded the app, I never had to turn on the recording, it’s always recording. Just wanted to clarify, so people may be using this as an excuse. They could possibly be lying about not having a recording, csp doesn’t require you to turn it on all the time, the first time goes for all canvases!
that's weird because i have to click on it every time i use it on pc
@@ladyryuki308 Same for me! Both on PC and on IPad, I'd honestly love to know how to automatically turn it on if I could TToTT
Idk how you’re managing that bc it makes me click it every time haha (ik because i always forget and then don’t have the recording)
When I first started use Clip 2.0 it was AUTO recording and making all my files MASSIVE and i had to turn it off as well, but now it remembers my preference in both the Android and Windows ver.
For anyone wondering how to make CSP auto record timelapses: When making a new canvas (Ctrl + N) theres a check mark that says record timelapse at the bottom left of the window that pops up (the window that has options for canvas size, etc.) , check it once and it will now be enabled by default everytime you make a new canvas.
This Feature was added incase they used there own body for tracing or face and want to keep there privacy
3:57
I thought it was to keep speedpaints clean. I don't find the reference window very useful so I lob all my references onto the canvas and it makes the whole thing bugly. Lol. I've started using it less and less, though. The references being out in the open helps validate that I'm a human.
Idk I don’t see it. Most lines do not seem to match up and most are jst generic poses many of which I did myself a ton of times
at 1:08:02 i will say that from vkei as a style can tend to lean into more "feminine" things and can greatly differ from more common versions of a more western gothic style, they specifically mention it just a paragraph above 😭
as well as you say your drawings would pretty closely follow your pinterest boards or pins you save but i feel that doesnt go for every artist, as a digital artist of many years i can say my pinterest boards dont exactly mirror what i draw i use them for inspiration and work from there and so not everyone kind of takes exact piece for piece in that way, it doesnt really feel like something that means anything to this situation to say it doesnt look like their art
overall just very disappointed with this video :/ it feels very biased and many points contradict one another, feels very unnecessary and something that should have stayed as twitter beef instead of an hour long video hammering down on very little evidence
You keep invalidating your own/mori's arguments. Arguments you say.
1. The eyes and mouth are similar in some of the artworks. Earlier he said he was inspired by their work. So yes, they're gonna be similar. Its literally what everyone tells artists to do. Steal parts from other artists.
2. There's so many. 25, whittled down to 10 because of admittedly them being a stretch. The ones that arent, the only evidence is based on the first argument. similar eyes and mouth.
3. Layers dont prove anything. Cant prove a negative. well, they watched him on stream.
4. Side by side comparisons. Always look at a side by side with a more critical eye. Theres a trick called priming. Being told something is similar, or being told theres something there is automatically gonna make people believe something is there. Think of the yanni audio meme.
Btw don't forget about facial PROPORTIONS. Like, Of Course faces looks kinda the same, many artists start building a face in exactly the same way, as there are methods that have been proven for years and even centuries. So if you decompose the face to primitives (the lines of the length of the eyes, nose, mouth), then they will be suitable for almost any face that is made in a similar style!
@@tonysparda9281 yeah, and there's been countless times where I see someone's art and I'm like, I know exactly what photo they referenced. Usually because I have the same one in my library. So I know there's been plenty of times where two artists are gonna use the same one. Especially if they're in the same style, genre, and community. I would say, never even use another artist for a pose reference. But I understand, if you're also a fan you're gonna subconsciously pick up on them if you're constantly looking at art of others.
@@wheelsndealzyes, so true! I also keep remembering the refs that I saw on Pinterest when I see the work of other artists, like, "oh yes, I recognize this pose and I've also seen it from several other artists"! In addition, when you are friends and you are all cooking inside your circle, it is not uncommon for you to look up to the same artists or to ur refs having a common theme, since you HAVE common themes! Plus, in this particular situation, the style itself is very basic, it's not something really unique and strange, the proportions are standard and being in the same circle (and presumably being close in age, presumably) these two artists could train and learn from the same examples, so it's not strange that they draw in a similar way. And, yes, if they liked each other's art while they were friends, they could subconsciously copy elements and features from each other's styles, this is how the human brain works and we can't just create art from a vacuum.
I can't believe that Mori moved lines, admitted that, AND PEOPLE STILL TRUST HIM
so dramatic for what 😭
the trello thing is so dumb, like i wouldnt be putting that into the doc it discredits the whole post when u add silly things.
For real, yeah, and it's also sus
i defo think most of these are a stretch to say they are traced, no one owns poses. overlaying them they arnt traced just the same pose. and frankly u cant own a pose. yes some line up in the faces and such but saying they are ALL traced is a massive stretch. 30 pieces isnt a show of consistent tracing when most of them are not that. just similar posing so they are defo over inflating the 'evidence'.
the twitter bios are not that serious like TONS of people do the same layouts as thats whats normal to instantly show people what your account is about, even i have a samarium set up on both my twitter pages! its not unique to have emojis and your age/pronouns/ ect ect.
the trello is the same concept as the twitter like god forbid people try and color code and make things easy to mange for clients? most of this 'evidence' is just filler to make the case seem like its more then it is.
most of this is just friendship drama and dosnt need to be public.
also theres a difference between inspiration and HEAVY inspiration
Tbf. The poses are not exact so like.. who cares? There is worse shit that can happen. This is kinda unserious. I'd be honored if someone thought my anatomy so good that they referenced my pieces!
Edit: The Trello thing?? So many artists do this shit with Trello. This issue anout Trello and the profile style is so dumb.
i have used the procreate reference layer thing for speed paints where i had to use a photo of myself as the reference in the corner, i don't trace my own photos because my body type doesn't fit a lot of characters i draw so it doesn't work to just trace that anyway and my art would look too real if i did, but i do copy the pose side by side and i don't want my own self in the speedpaint. so honestly, that's probably the only use case i can think of it being valid (when it's a reference photo you yourself took you don't want displayed, not someone else's work or picture or anything)
i use procreate but have never tried ref layers. i was wondering when you add it before setting it as a ref layer does it show at the start of the speedpaint for a second and do you have to cut that part out? sorry if that’s worded badly. bc yk how at the start of procreate speedpaints it sort of fades in from white? im just wondering if those speedpaints using the invisible layer feature are always cut at the beginning , so it could be a way to tell if the feature is used, or not-
@@tobes.. i think it does? because i have to place it down and move it into the corner then turn on the reference layer and it doesnt show up in my speedpaint, even after i altered it a little bit (by moving it into the corner) when it wasn't a reference layer. i could be remembering wrong, though
As a commissioner of the artist in question, I watched him draw my piece, I provided all poses, ideas, and references used, and in the accuser’s “document” (in which all art pieces except mine were removed as they were proven wrong) my piece still sits.
I left a message to the accuser, which was ever so kindly ignored, stating that I have witnessed this person’s art first hand and that I witnessed my own commission firsthand. Also considering the artist in question streams a lot of his creative processes, this is kind of pathetic. I’ll gladly debate with anyone on this topic. As the facts will tend to bite down whatever lies people try to spin. The spider always gets caught in their own web.
Not to mention, they were friends for a decent time, and through that attracted similar commissions from similar commissioners, and more than likely, were sent similar references when gathering information for their pieces.
I want your comment to be in the top!
Btw I wish you good mental health, when you stand up for someone who has been accused, it's very brave, have my respect!
@@tonysparda9281 I appreciate that, and yeah. I’ve been through my ups and downs in life, and have been through false accusations myself. I know how scary it is to feel alone in that situation. I never want anybody to feel the way I did. I know it’s wrong. I see bullshit I call bullshit.
@@conkqtThat's damn right. You're doing really brave things. I am extremely upset by the amount of lies, hatred and false accusations on the Internet and I also try to side with those who are accused without reason (my past work experience related to human behavior, promotion and manipulation helps me a lot to see when the situation is shady), so I know what it is. These accusations and the way the post and document were written stirred deep doubts and distrust in me, and I am sad to see how many people still believe in "tracing" and succumb to emotions.
Hi. Question about the piece you got.
Did you see the whole thing from the very initial sketching stages to the finalized sketch before lineart?
As in livestream or video call see the beginning processes instead of just being sent the "initial sketch" photo (or seeing it after there had been a decent amount of sketching done first) and then watching the process from there?
I do want to believe that its weird coincidence of very similar tastes and residuals from their times as close friends but the one speedpaint with the drastic change in pose and no edits after with no undersketch has me leary that there was something weird going on behind the scenes and/or offline when people couldnt watch (idk if that video was a procreate one with the possoble hidden layer function) since im not familiar with their process and how often they would jump into straight sketch without an undersketch since the ones shown seemed to all have undersketches of some form.
I’m uncomfortable with the way Gob is letting Mori apologize for nothing.
Gob has a guilty conscience, the stress isn’t from Mori, it’s from knowing that Mori knows and is on to them.
The way Gob is letting their friends bully the person they are clearly stealing from is so gross.
You absolutely are incharge of the narrative you’ve created that your friends think is real.
Also how shit are you implying your friends are that they wouldn’t listen to you if you asked them to stop pestering and subtweeting an old friend? Idk that’s just such a bs bully response.
It is!
All they had to do was talk to their friend. This whole video was Mori apologizing for even being skeptical.
Honestly if my friend was skeptical of me Id just find a new inspiration like video games or Pinterest
yea I was thinking this too. Mori is doing a lot of back stepping and apologizing all to try and reconcile and people are apparently reading it as him being pretentious, but as someone who is anxiety ridden and with massive chronic depression and stress, I can say that this definitely struck me as a person with the same sort of stuff as me going on. From that point of understanding, it is perfectly acceptable IMO that Mori would go to friends, not with intention of trying to get them to be dicks to Gob, but with intentions of saying "hey I recognize I have these mental issues and I want an outside look to be sure I'm not blowing shit out of proportion." I have done that SO many times with my friends, thank god they are there to be my voice of reason. I thought that the way Mori handled this was as nice and professional as he could be while simply trying to let Gob know what he was personally seeing.
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Where it starts to steer wrong though, IMO, is how Mori continues to then take the blame repeatedly which unfortunately then gives Gob the scapegoat of "well you've already said many times this is a you thing not a me thing" which makes it very easy for Gob at that point to try and gaslight or steer things in their favor. The fact he also blatantly tries to say "I don't control my friends", and then comments from them seeming really off key or whatever else is just... why? Like, clearly Gob had to have been talking some sort of game behind Mori's back for comments like that to unfold, right? And Mori just takes the blame time and time again. Ugh
vkei culture is men dress in androg/ dressing fem while presenting as androg. not defending anyone but vkei culture mentioned before is also about dressing against the norm. 1:08:04
exactly what i was thinking!
Exactly
We've been eating good lately with these long videos
Also GIRL GIVE US A WHOLE YAPPING VIDEO
Of the person was tracing I don’t think there’s a need to mention your anxiety so many times.
Wow, I follow this person and I had heard nothing about this. Their art is phenomenal, I've been enjoying it for several years now. It's awful that this happened to them :(
You’re my fav yapper ily 🙏
4th but real
I feel like talking about someone behind someone’s back, even if you think they are a bad person is a horrible thing to do, and even if you do do that it’s better to keep it to yourself instead of spreading negativity.
i think kat’s bias towards gobi is unjustified,’cuaz suddenly omori takes a break its alright but when gobi does he has to say why? be fucking for real and omori’s doc doesn’t even make sense he switched from referencing to heavily tracing like what? and his doc was about art not twitter why did it suddenly matter,and about the poses its far too streched no one owes you shit omori,and you said you don’t want to press on the matter but still go on to falsely accuse and harrass gobi,no one owes poses or templates or colors,and why did omori literally mention his anxiety so many times,this is so frustrating im too mad to continue this rant
Plot twist, both artists have been using references from google of poses. I've seen the mas majority of those poses on google for anime drawing poses. Just saying XD. It is possible the person is but who knows. Just go to google and type in anime drawing poses. And just like that you'll find all of those poses in different references. If you don't se them all, try doing vampire anime body poses, femboy anime body poses. The list goes on, on what you can find as far as "References" go. It isn't horrible to use references and in fact all professional artists use references, even if it was something they drew a hundred of times. The thing is, DO NOT copy. Copy as in copping 100 percent of an image from hair style, clothing, pose, so forth so on, you get the point. Now this doesn't mean you can't mimic a "pose". There are hundreds of thousands of images in the world, more so now. There are no real original things anymore. Even down to story writing. You legit can go and find a book that was written 100 years ago and take that book and publish it with your name stamped on it. XD it's wild. As annoying as it can be to have someone within your circle or close community to do such things as far as poses but within all reality, they aren't tracing in full. Using references for poses is common. Really feels like a sssniperwolf situation if you ask me XD
Or even Pinterest too. Like I Can see every pose from both Mori and Gob's art and theyre almost all from google or Pinterest. Mori's, I've seen from things like Vkei and popular models or even referencing poses from other artists. Gob, I see on his thing that he referenced a different artist's pose, and typically uses Pinterest and google for poses unless there's a client and they provide a pose from google/Pinterest
Like, some of these presumably referenced artworks are from YEARS ago im guessing before they knew each other and those were included. Artworks that were made before Reflgob even changed to another brand.
I find it kind of funny how most of the most guessed copied poses are just standing front facing poses and the other poses are quite literally from clients.
Someone on here was saying that Gob was likely Frankensteining the entire pose from different traces ?? Gob streams and from the situation, I even went to look at those obs streams and idk.
Pointless drama
i usually dont give my two cents but i thought i should here in terms of the pet peeve kat mentioned
as someone with diagnosed severe anxiety and get stuck in my head a lot about how people respond to me or act around me in any way; if youre going to assume something about anyone, its usually the healthier option to be confrontive about it without being accusatory
though i do understand that someone coming to you often asking to make sure they didnt do anything wrong, its better to have that communication than bottle up anything you may be worried about
talking about them alone is enough to relax someone, it doesnt have to be about pointing fingers from the start
idk how to ever make sense im autistic as hell i just wanted to throw this out there since its not something i ever do with bad intentions and it effects me a lot i would give anything to magically be rid of these thoughts trust me :(
I seriously have no idea how you’d go about the hiding a layer while speed paint records thing. I’ve been using it for forever, and I have absolutely no clue.
To be able to do it you’d have to be actively investigating to see how to do it. You’d have to be looking for a way to hide tracing. There’s premeditation right there.
not exactly, i know a lot of people use it due to using irl pics of them self as reference or tracing over irl pics of themselves to understand how to draw a pose and just dont want themselves being in the timelapse. It can be used for bad but i wouldnt chalk up everyone using it for tracing.
30 minutes in, the person is way too desperate to be friends. If they have been tracing your work and copied you, then proceeds to block you, GIVE UP. Always talking about “anxiety 😣” as well. Its social media and these are not real friends.
1:04:14 but to be fair, they were already once accused of it by the person so it could be like “wait, is this about me again?” But idk tho cuz he supposedly blocked mori already at this point
Not to be a dick because I have the same problem whether i'm busy or not, but: it's valid for your friends to have hurt feelings about never having time for them or ignoring their message. From one ADHDer to another, this is a case where your intentions don't matter as much as you would like them to. Being an absent friend can hurt another person REGARDLESS of your schedule, what's going on in your life, or your intentions. That doesn't mean you don't need to prioritize them more if that's not what's on your priority list, but the problem is that now they know that. Some people find that kind of relationship hollow or unnatural to them, so it's very natural for them to assume you're pulling away for a reason.
So I don't disagree that we shouldn't assume negative intentions, but here it's not your intentions that are important, it's your actions. Ignoring people makes them feel unimportant and unliked. If you know that and still don't change, that's on you, bro. You don't have the right to be annoyed at them imho.
Again, I say this as somebody who's been on both sides of the issue. I get not having the resources because I absolutely never have any spoons, basically, but if you can't meet friendship needs OR communicate that fact in a way that makes the person feel valued, then you've demonstrated to them that you don't value them the way they expect to be.
56:23 shows the reference that Conk was using. It was not an reference of Mori's art.
As an artist I would say alot of the claims are a strech but at the same time the artist being accused responded a little strange and makes me think there is more to it. Also the idea that the stress of this situation sent someone to the ER is wild to me.
I mean, I'm pretty sure he was already in the ER because of bad health since he admits that he has a lot of health issues and that's why Mori wasn't telling him anything at first.
I was watching this and I realized something on some of these points, I love csp assets I use them all of the time, i wonder if some were used in some of these instances like same 3d model for faces ect?
I was thinking the same tbh. I use clip and use the 3D body asset to make my own poses and refs. Also apparently mori confessed that he moved the lines around to show the other traced so I just don't believe them at all. I feel bad for gob cause their art seems really good but this will hurt them greatly 😔
The one of the two characters standing, even the pecks are the same😭
When you cover something like this, I think you should contact the people it is about. Sometimes things are posted unknowingly and people have to post in order to defend themselves. There is a ton of context missing as well as people’s personal accounts of what was going on.
Just a short little thing on the whole hidden image thing. Personally, I find it useful when I don’t want my references of my characters on screen so that they don’t crowd up the time lapse. Especially in ones where the picture is more of a close-up. It does have a really useful function, but sadly, it can definitely be used for things like this
I dunno... Some poses looks similar but anime proportions really strict with things that would look good and really typical face shapes. Also banch of the poses is just like... bread and butter of any anime nsfw artist. I have two or three arts with character on the knees with completely similar pose because it's extremly popular. And some parts like same mouth shapes looks like common tutorials for drawing emotions in anime style. So it's common style and shape too.
It's obvious that some art was havily referenced or traced, but some examples really weak and didn't help the case. Especially with the nonsense like "you have colored notion you stole it!". For godness sakeI have literally same colored trello and half of the artists I know use colorcoding for the stages.
Also I tried to really put art with the nose lined perfectly on top of each other and don't see it lined so much. There are different shape of the jaw lines, mouth don't lined at all, even the chin has a different shape it's more flat. So it's just looks stupid to use someone's art to trace like... the nose, overall jawline and ear placing? For me it looks more like "similar anime dude face syndrome" with both artists copying face shapes that typical for handsome anime dudes.
As OP states several times, though, it is the single parts that make up the whole. If it was just 3 or 4 things, sure... But the fact that there are so many of them? Over 20? That's not a good look.
I actually like the hidden images feature on procreate, not for tracing of course but I will sometimes photograph myself for reference but I am not comfortable showing my face online so having the ability to hide it in speedpaints is comforting for me:) it is definitely misused though which is sad because it could have been a great feature
Yikes, just one or two of these and it would be VERY plausible deniability… but the amount of these make you pause.
I just find your channels and I have been watching all your videos from start to finish!!! really in love with this type of content, keep it up!!!
I dont think the friend traced i think mori is just too hyper aware of things cuz of the past and i think the accusation just broke their friendship this seems ,ike a bad fall out between friends
Nahh It’s definitely traced. Those things wouldn’t line up one for one even if the two artists used the same inspo.
You also don’t suddenly improve overnight.
Yeah no it’s DEFINITELY traced. I know because unfortunately I myself use to be a tracer when I was like 11. It’s so clearly obvious just by seeing the two pieces side by side.
That's what it looks like to me too, plus Mori outlines the contour so that it doesn't always match his contour or Gob's contour, but it gives the appearance that the art is similar. As someone has already said here, the outline does not match the way it usually does when tracing.
@@alyssak5847 Hard to believe since Reflgob didn't improve overnight, there was over 8 years of artwork from him since, when he was a child, he used a much older name of "Naomi Rodgers" and had multiple Amino accounts that showcase art progression.
@@alyssak5847 They didn't improve overnight. They had multiple other names when they were a child like "Naomi Rodgers". A lot of the lines arent there and are just traced over nothing in red to give that impression
mori provided a lot of evidence, though some may have a bit of a stretch, but there was the effort to show people reading the doc to see where mori was coming from and what similarities they saw
meanwhile gob had a lot of statements but not much actual evidence to back it up
i can't say for sure if gob was being untruthful, but the fact is that there is not enough evidence in gob's statements to disprove mori's accusations
also as an artist, the similarities are uncomfortably similar
my friends and i share art all the time and inspire each other but it never gets to that level of similarities
Well, Mori also falsified the evidence by manipulating the lines for "matching" and manipulating his art to make it more matching with Gob's art
@@tonysparda9281And Gob lied about not taking inspo when he said he did in DMs. Your point?
@@pancaqq4578 my point is that the accusation of tracing is based on falsified "evidence".
The question of whether Gob was inspired by Mori's art or not is a SEPARATE question, do not mix everything into one pile. In addition, it can be much more complex, since they have been friends for a long time and probably had common interests, topics, maybe even looked up to the same artists, learned to draw from the same tutorials (which are popular on the Internet and suit their topics, u know), and besides of course they have SEEN each other's work MANY times. Gob can be sincerely sure that he did not take directly from Mori's art, since he could not really do this (not trace, not have among the references), but of course his brain could remember what Mori's art looks like and he did not consciously recreate the BASIC proportions. By the way, from my experience, an artist often does not notice how his style changes over time (and it can be both slow and fast changes) and what exactly influenced them. Are the styles of these two artists similar? Yes. Is this an example of plagiarism? No, unless we bring to the discussion a completely different topic about the permissibility of inspiration and learning through the work of other artists, as well as how the viewing and environment affect the artist and his work.
@@tonysparda9281 @tonysparda9281 while that may be true (mori manipulating lines), as a fellow artist looking at both sides' images even without the additional lines, there is weird similarities that shouldn't really happen with that amount of frequency.
Personally it seems like there was just overly heavy referencing rather than straight up tracing, but it's still kinda weird. I honestly was kinda hoping to see Gob truly debunk the claims but as I said, the evidence provided, for example the references used were too vague to really count. The odd part is why is the final image closer visually to mori's art than the references? It is also odd that the similarities seem to continue even after both sides have blocked each other because then technically neither should be able to view each other's art to be subconsciously influenced? I know coincidences can happen but till that level of frequency?
2:51 been a few times where my art style would change due to influences of friends around me, be it due to looking at their art too much or drawing gift art for them too often, or drawing characters styled to fit their universes they come up with, etc. It happens, But when style + pose of their already existing artworks starts ending up in your own works then yeah that's less being influenced and more just copying.
1:01:07 Is that the final stage of the sketch? who sketches like this. I know some artists can jump into art right away without sketching but this just feels like a sketch over the final image instead of a sketch before getting into rendering.
Any case hope things are okay going forward and one stop referencing just one artist, tracing or not, a wrong is still pretty noticeable when it not just once or twice. Also hope their health for both parties will be okay after this.
For those that draw on CSP and want to record their speedpaints but often forget, when opening a new file, you can check the "Record timelapse" box on the bottom left of the canvas setting window, and then its pretty much on by default whenever you start a new painting.
15:57 honestly so true, I get tired of reminding people that we have our own LIVES, we deal with so many things---and oftentimes we just forget to check our socials because we have to prioritize other things first. Not ignoring you; they just simply forget, or are too tired, or are dealing with other things, and the list is endless. T-T A cute little reminder to reply is better than straight up assuming that they don't give af about you
I wasted my time watching this video. Bitching about pose stealing is something I thought our community was PAST.
i see from where they are coming but as an artist who hates poses / anatomy let me say. ... you can use the same pose from the internet or the same reference photo from the internet. yea maybe sketchy but i wouldt see it until he points it out. like its the creativity of Character design and colouring not the poses (poses ofc too) but not that much like the design of the character.
I think they should have references more than just a few/one artists and instead of just using the record features of the art software they use, Use OBS. Thats how I record my art, even if I forget to unpuase my recording at times. I pause and unpause to keep track of the time I have actually been working on the art pieces.
I also think that they should just not interact with each other anymore and completely stop with all this. Both sides need to move on before someone says or does something that could completely damage their reputation.
ok in my opinion this is confusing because where is the line between tracing and referencing, because some people see referencing as coping because you use the same pose or same shapes to make your drawing and using the same pose as some one else can be seen as stolen ?! can you even copyright a pose?
no, people can't copyright a basic poses of proportions of face
I feel like I should mentioned there's also a way to draw with a hidden layer in Clip Studio recording. You have to do some step with a funky kind of layer.
not traced, but clearly used as reference.
I love you kat, always serving tea
PSA: Its okay to trace if you are using it as a learning tool to understand how an artist utilizes shapes, line weight, proportion etc. (just credit the original artist). It is normal for artists to study other artists. It is not okay to trace someone else's work IF you are selling. Don't be a skin walker.
I love your long videos, I can watch them while I work sewing without having to search for another video every 15-20 min 💜
Also, for several months I misread your name as Kathleen instead of Katliente 😭
I feel like it's one thing for a complete stranger to pull this crap, but you FRIEND? I've had people do this, not to this extent, but I had a "friend" once draw something and say in the description "this wasn't referenced at all, I drew it all by myself!" and it was a literal copy of an image I had drawn. Didn't stay friends with that person. I generally say that I'm 100% okay with people using my art as a reference, and using my poses and such, as long as they draw it themselves. No tracing. To this day I've never had someone "use my poses" without straight up tracing. lol I lose faith in humanity a little bit more, day by day. XD; A lot of artists in the communities I'm in, aren't as open as I am and still people can't be respectful and not trace.
hello procreate user here, that reference option is meant for references! like me i use it to add the character's ref i'm drawing so i can draw the character properly while drawing. i'm not sure if this is exactly what you're talking about as i don't know how you'd use it to like exactly copy an image? unless im missing how to hide a layer and be able to draw on top of it i don't think there is anything else that allows you to hide it in the speed paint
honestly i don't know a lot of the tactics used by these tracers on procreate bc i literally don't trace but procreate definitely needs to like do something about it. maybe adding the ui into the videos would like solve the problem completely
When you swipe right to left on "add a photo" or the other options in the settings on the canvas, there's an option to "add a *private* photo". These private photos do not show up in speedpaints. Hope that clears it up :)
@@robopnk OH MY GOD I HAD NO IDEA THAT WAS A THING?!? WHATTT how did people even figure that out 😭😭😭
I really think parts of this wasn't well researched and show examples of how procreate has this "function" You're talking about because I have yet to find it and immediate discredit due to an art program without showing this function feels very gross.
Also people DONT own poses, sure things can look similar but parts of this video felt as though you were saying "see this pose they can't have this pose because it's too similar."
The blue lines also moved in the beginning and doesn't line up the way you think they do [the thumbnail]
This feels extremely biased towards Mori. I don't know either people and if you want to be biased, you can but be honest about your biases rather than saying "I'm playing devils advocate" and trying to remain "unbiased" at the same time.
I think a video like this deserves more research and more care as real people are behind these two artists.
I just seen a traced over image of the comparisons [which you didn't do to show you just relied on Mori's evidence alone] it's an Hour long video and you didn't even research.
I'm shaking man, Gob is now getting hate sent their way over this poorly researched video.
Also nice glaze over the fact that Mori admitted to moving lines.
54 minutes of Mori and Gob only gets maybe 20 mins at most 💀 this is extremely biased.
@rat_in_a_bucket i didn't know that, but she never showed the example of it, it all feels so rushed 😭
Yes, Mori moved lines and people still believe him?!??? What? This is a false evidence if they have been manipulated!
That procreate feature is so dumb, I’m switching back to ibis paint
I sympathize with Mori a lot and feel really bad for them. I understand the horrible things anxiety does to a person and how it can effect a person's mental space. Gob did heavily reference Mori's art, unknowingly or not. If Gob had just said something like "I heavily referenced your art, I'm really sorry for that. I'll try better to not to do that in the future," all of this could had been avoided. I pin the blame mostly, if not entirely, on Gob since they are the one who cut communication after Mori was doing their best to be communitive and respectful of both parties' situation. I don't blame Mori for coming to Gob to talk about it and not trusting their speed paints, because, as kat said, procreate has that hidden layer function(a stupid function for an art program if you ask me).
Those of you in the comments who are saying Mori is being a big baby should take some empathy classes and understand that art is an emotional part of a lot of people's lives. All art comes from someone's life and how they feel in the moment about a certain topic or thing. it may not be the main point, but art does have that influence on the audience and the artist themself.
Exactly I completely agree
Except you having issues does not make it excusable to harass others? It's one of the basics to use references (not trace, not clone art) but to use the same shapes and facets of style as other artists. Mori does the exact same thing, they even admit to using other artists as inspiration. Goob is just hypocritically gatekeeping generic poses and art style that they themselves have copied from others. Up until this I had no idea who Gob was and I was a fan of Mori.
It's ironic you're telling people to have empathy but you refuse to see that Mori being paranoid about something they do not even own and then grilling and lashing out at their friend could mentally damage other people (in this case Gob) but that;s somehow okay because Mori has issues so everyone should just rollover and accept it?? No. It hypocritical to defend Mori for their mental health but complain about the person Mori lashed out at and put on public blast with their large audience(if you know the adopts community you know that Goob has a BIG BIG following) without any care for the oppositions mental health or even their safety with the lengths some rabid fans are willing to go. By all mean if Gob was actually tracing then yes I would agree it'd be important to let potential commissioners of Gob know, but if you overlay the images it's obvious the lines don't actually line up. It's not traced, Goob just has an ego problem and Gob needs to widen their pool of references. Neither were good in this situation but Goob was way worse.
@@rabbitguts2518 heavily refrancing someone’s art is copying and art piece, all gob did was change around some things. Mori did their absolute best to try shifting as much blame to themselves as they could have while still addressing the issue they had instead of doing that their friends said, bottling it up then having an out burst. Mori knows their out burst is wrong but most people would do the same. Someone heavily referenced your art, something that’s really personal to you and that could be your livelihood, and is claiming they did nothing wrong, gave you evidence in ONLY a program known for enabling tracers and thieves until they decided to blow up after THEY blocked you first. I think most people would have met their breaking point, and that’s normal people. Mori is someone who is naturally inclined to more anxious break downs. Mori did their bed to accommodate Gob’s situation for Gob to return that by giving false accusations and characterizing of Mori to their friends and partner, blocking Mori before they could even apologize and communicate in private after Mori tried to respect Gob situation after going to the ER, and more! I’m not going to blame Mori because I can understand were they are coming from, not as an artist, but as just a person with empathy.
"...made a Google Doc in response"
Oh, it's that kind of video. 😂 Let me grab some snacks then!
seems more heavily referenced
This might get yappy, but from start to finish I had a lot of thoughts on this lmao. Growing up I always thought I was barely an artist, but I loved drawing and I loved making art. I studied my best friend's art style all the time, because we had been drawing together since I was 11 (and I'm 35 now, still best friends to this day). I would sometimes copy her art with tracing paper and stuff, and it was okay because she knew about it, and we were kids. Now that we're much older, went to art school together, etc, we reference each other's art sometimes, but that's from being in the same vicinity for so long, our art just naturally ended up looking similar. I feel like similar happened here, but the fear of admitting that it was happening, that the referencing and growing off of a friend's style got way out of hand, to the point that the fear and anxiety crept in. I have plenty of anxiety and various other fears that come into play, and can make judgement calls that might or might not be true. I think they just need to understand that this created a problem and a rift, and things would have been much better being just straightforward and honest to each other. They *were* friends, things didn't have to get this bad for them if they were close enough. I just hope that things don't get worse and both parties just grow and can move on from here.
The procreate is also on the phone, and you can’t add any invisible images when on the phone. 4:07
Have both draw traditionally and record it and see what happens
@@ViroVeteruscy that’s a good idea
You can tell Mori references right of the bat pigeon666 among other artists and also uses photo refs on some images and I saw no credit so they are not really above anything. The thing is when your friend is doing this to you ,and they are absolutely copying them, and lying to your face, it's normal friend artist groups copy each other when they have things in common and if the agreement is to allow that it's fine if not, gaslighting your way out of that situation will just kill your friendships. Don't be a dick to your friends and dont act like your bum is clean of all sins, most baby artists clearly copy and it's fine if you don't act like you don't and you dont copy so much you are stealing someone else's bag
no matter how generic an artstyle/ theme is, there is NO WAY two illustration can overlap that closely without tracing,. yes goobieroo dont own that artstyle, but that doesnt mean it is okay to trace the artwork they produced originally from scratch. not also mentioning the impersonation / branding issues going on ( style, NAME and aesthetic)
well Mori moved lines to match Gob's arts, he admitted it.
@@tonysparda9281 yes im no defending the tracer but im talking about ppl who said 'goobieroo dont own that artstyle and they need to shutup' ☹️
Loving the long video content ✨🎀✨ Keep up the good work.
As a CSP user there is a way to set it up for auto screen recording, it just doesn’t auto same the recording
It’s in settings somewhere
okay im only 24 minutes in ,, but so far it just seems like two really good people who are also very anxious and overthink .
okay ( 50 minutes in ) the fact that there are THIS MANY INSTANCES ? is pretty crazy ,, but im genuinely confused bc everything before seemed innocent with no ill-intention
52:42 HUHHH ??? okay moving the eyes up or down imo changes the evidence sm for me
Ah I love to listen to drama as I work on papers.
But seriously, I’ll keep it neutral as possible:
I see both sides, I get both sides, I had my (x) for doubt when Gob said “I never use Gob’s work” which contradicts him also saying “I use your work for inspo”.
It’s strange to have similar features that are common but you can TELL if something is too common. It’s like…you give birth and your baby is kidnapped. Years later or something, you see someone walking with a child. Well, people have children but you know that that’s YOUR child. It’s kinda like that.
Mori needs time away for a clear mindset. It’s damaging to sink into social media because that just builds anxiety. Back to the baby example. Sometimes children can die at birth and instead of accepting it, they assume the real child was kidnapped and go for the person with the child with similar features of the loss child.
2 perspectives.
Don’t heavily rely on one artwork and don’t heavily assume. Until it starts messing with YOUR name and bank account, no need to throw hands. Tis the internet: anything can happen. Just be happy it’s not Ai 😌.
This makes me glad I have no art friends