The Universe of Star Citizen Doesn't Work
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2021
- Star Citizen wants to be more than just a game, it wants to be a whole universe. But is that universe actually interesting enough to warrant flying through it? Unfortunately, I'd say the answer is no.
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Your ideological biases are getting hard to stomach. The anti-Imperialism of the current era is a product of the unique politics of the 20th century, not an inevitable and permanent product of “social progress”. The empires of the late modern era exhausted themselves fighting each other in WW2 ad were replaced by two hegemonic powers whose ideologies were anti-imperial: the liberal Democratic USA and the communist USSR. one of those two powers has collapsed and seen its ideology discredited. The other power is in the process of willfully abandoning its hegemonic role and seen many nations turn against its ideology in favor of a rising illiberalism.
Any student of human history and human nature knows that the glories of Empire are a constant temptation for powerful states. History did not end with WW2, nor did human nature fundamentally change. Self professed empires will likely rise again. Dismissing imperialism because you buy into the leftist caricature of it being nothing more than “the oppression of indigenous peoples” is a position of willful ignorance.
I hope there will be a video on cybran nation from supreme commander or parhaps a video about xcom since those universes is intressting.
Could you do a video on the universe of elite dangerous sometime? Its a space game simillar to star citizen, you might be interested
Your opinion it is interesting. But I am from Spain, the Kindong of Spain. And I am sure that here are people seen your videos from The Empire of Japan, The Kingdong of Thailand, The United Kingdon or one of Emirates around the wolrd. And in some "Republics" are Kings, Princes, Dukes, Maharatas, etc.
My point its thats your opinion about a medium/far future of humanity is influenced for your etnic and cultural origin (¿USA?). And you can be wrong.
Sorry for my bad english. I know it is horrible, and my corrector is a spanish corrector in the cell.
Thanks for the vídeo, and your patience.
@@theodoremccarthy4438 "leftist caricature" - your own (US?) bias is showing ;)
(other than that, I agree with your statement)
"Imagine if the leader of your nation announced tomorrow that they were changing their title to emperor"
*Applauds in First Galactic Empire*
The Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society, which I assure you will last for 10,000 years.
@@generalgrievous2782 Wait why are you still alive ?
@@exaggeratedswaggerofablackteen Kenobi couldn't kill me with such an uncivilized weapon.
@@generalgrievous2782 Well that fire at least, seemed to have a good settlement in you chest...
@@dalob112 Republic propaganda...
Not gonna lie, a future where the political system makes no sense, contradicts itself and smacks of misunderstanding.. is probably the most believable part.
yep, basically this right here
Future? What are you talking about? That’s the present.
The UEE is just the USA in space.
@@optillian4182 I would say it is meant to look like Space Merica, but actually function like Space Rome.
The big difference is the power of the head of state, in the US the President is powerful, but still secondary in power to Congress, as it can over turn the Presidents decision and even kick him out of office, while the President cannot do the same.
In Rome it was the opposite.
First off the head of gov was voted on by the senate, and they didn’t always have one because his power would be absolute, being even greater than that of the senate, and the senate had no legal means to remove him from office or over turn his ruling.
so most of Rome’s history was emperorless, with exception being when the nation was at crisis and needed a singular unified direction, and the senate hoping the individual would just step down when the crisis was over. This is what happened until Julius Caesar decided to change it and not step down, thus his assassination in the senate building.
It should be noted that Rome was a Republic, and that that government form is what the US founders chose for America. Obviously they made changes to it, but the basic principle of “rule of law” is still there.
yeah cant change for the better without beating the status-quo first
I disagree with the idea that once "progressing" to democratic nation states we would never again return to a different government type. Human progress is by no means guaranteed or irreversible.
It’s a very fundamentally Western view of Time/History that everything is forward progress forever. It’s just that most people eventually notice that’s not how anything has ever worked with Humanity. We change our minds a lot... usually violently.
Democracy in greece was usually short lived with a mob eventually placing a tyriant on the throne to restore order. France had a few lapses after their revolution.
Yeah this point feels a bit “end-of-history”-ey. If the two decades since the 1990s have proven anything, it’s that fascism and authoritarianism are not necessarily destroyed simply by having a democracy. Democratic governments like Russia, Brazil, Turkey, and the Philippines have all seen the rise of authoritarian governments after the failures of neoliberalism. These might function differently than other more overtly fascistic or authoritarian states in their bureaucratic systems, but they are just as fascist and authoritarian. Even nations with strong democracies like America have seen their democratic systems challenged and weakened, by it by losing faith in the legitimacy of elections or giving excess power to corporations. All in all, history is a complicated and fickle thing, and the idea that democracies are somehow its end goal is an outdated and disproved philosophy.
ya, Greece is well known for electing despots and dictators. It wasn't until Rome that we had a country last several centuries without falling to corruption, and they were a republic. okay, first they were a monarchy, then they were a republic, one that elected emperors the rule for short periods of time so that the government would have enough focus and cohesion to deal with a nation wide crisis. These emperors always had to relinquish power after wards. Caesar was the first to not do so, thus why he was murdered. It seems he also started the "Emperors are monarchs" thing, which seems to have contributed to Rome's collapse.
But the point stands. Democracies, which are mob rule(population majority decides everything), have devolved to monarchies rather quickly and consistently. While Republics, which are rule of law(a set of law(s), i.e. constitution, that restrict and govern the powers of the government), have historically been far more resistant to that passage of time.
Luetin had some stuff to say about that, society is a giant on clay legs, it doesn't take much to plunge our mighty civilized western societies into total anarchy, I'm sure the great civilizations of the bronze age too once believed that they would last forever.
Always start with an AI rebellion.
It's the only way to explain why the computers in the game aren't as powerful as the computer you're sitting at.
@@H-to-O Warhammer 40k lore is ridiculous
"religion happened and now progress is stagnant"
You obviously know very little about wh40k lore
@@hashbrown_blitz8869 Tbf religion isn't what's halting progress directly. Big E banned progress even as a staunch atheist. Religion is the evil icing on top of an already fucked world.
@@hashbrown_blitz8869 the moment you realize the lore is for plastic army toys you will stop think about it and have fun whit that.
@@yuvalgabay1023 death korps of krieg all the way
"No hyper advanced, space civilisation would have an Emperor..."
Warhammer 40K - "That sounds like heresy to me"
To be fair, their emperor is practically a demigod
@@13Lictor He is also the best kind of Emperor. Excellent propaganda and 0 actual power because he sits entombed on the throne. Beauracracy actually runs everything
calling the 40k empire "advanced" is bretty brave indeed xD
The Imperium is also one of the biggest clusterf*cks of inefficient bureaucracy and religious zealotry in any realm of fiction. The lore reflects it's reality of not being a great place to live, despite what some people may tell you.
It is heresy.
"Imagine if the leader of your nation announced tomorrow that they were changing their title to imperator..."
Me(a Russian): "not that suprising to be honest("
i mean he is only looking at it from a yanks perspective, i say long live the queen and we have had our independence for over 100 years just chose to keep the monarch
Britain: First time?
France: *Napoleon has entered the chat*
@@bryce4724 Marc is Canadian, actually. Though to be fair, there are many similarities between our two cultures.
Germany: Really? .... Here we go again, Hans get the Flammenwerfer.
@@ProfMaddex *Erika intensifies* Jawohl!
Ideology can change over time and through war. Rome was staunchly against a form of king yet celebrated their Augustus and after the collapse of western Rome Alaric started referring to himself as king.
If I remember correctly, weren't there multiple, massive events and long-term wars that slowly pushed the population toward authoritarianism?
@@thepsion5 It's more that those events made clear that a republican state would always be unstable as a form of government for a nation the size of Rome (in the ancient era anyway).
Also to be fair, for most of the ordinary public, a dictatorship isn't too far of a step from what they had before (an oligarchical rule by elites). A group of people far removed from you ruling you isn't too different from just one person far removed from you.
Anyone with a good knowledge of science fiction media would welcome something different about earth's government instead of the tired trope of a socialist utopia of planet earth. For this I welcome the use of making the government an Empire.
@@Andrew_NJ Exactly I agree. And it makes for a much more enjoyable multi-player when there's an authoritarian faction that some would be inclined to avoid and brings a lot more diversity between scientific and war vessels. Ex. Starfleet combined the two because they were against a standing military. I find it more realistic humanity would find itself less inclined to be peaceful when finding itself in a galaxy of peers.
@@AeneasGemini It's essentially the same today as well. Whenever a "ruling class" is formed, it's the inevitable outcome. Today we call them elites.
The bit about how cities can rise and fall in importance reminded me of New Mombasa in Halo. Mombasa is Kenya's second-largest city and a fairly major port nowadays, but by 2552, it's one of the most important cities on Earth due to the construction of the planet's first space elevator there. (And for bonus points, since Mombasa is fairly close to the equator, it's also a pretty good location for an actual space elevator.)
I was thinking more about how Rome changed importance over the life span of the Roman empire. You know, by the time the western empire fell rome wasnt even its capital anymore.
@@seekingabsolution1907 yup it was Ravenna. Constantinople eclipsed it later too. And even the Holy Roman Empire was just a glorified German empire with its capital wherever the Emperor happens to be.
i disagree landbased terminals for an orbital tetherwould not be able to cope with flutations in the cable. It would be far easier to have the terminal in the ocean with the ability to move in sync with the 30km cable.
@@lordomacron3719 I won't pretend to understand what you just wrote.
@@ShahjahanMasood orbital Tether = Space Elevator would require a very long cable to a geo stationary satellite. That satellite would be making many corrections to maintain its orbit over time and the earth based end of the cable would have to match those movement by the satellite to maintain cable stability. so it would be easier to do that from an ocean base station than a land base station.
“Cordoba in modern day Spain, Kaifeng in China, and Constantinople.”
If you’re watching an hour-long world building rant/call out, then you do not need to be told where Constantinople was.
What about Istanbul?
*waits for the music to start*
@@alexs1954 What Is a Tan Bull?
@@alexs1954 Wait, it’s been Constantinople this whole time?
Always has been.
@@spacedoutorca4550 funny how it wasn't originally called that.
"The name of [your country here] Empire"
Austrian Empire? Never heard of that .. *nervously laughs in habsburg*
You could.probably convince the old.members to have another go...
Also Brazillian Empire... I think the criticism in this video is kinda shallow.
@@gabrieldantas63 It absolutely is.
The Canadian Empire? Well... that doesn't sound nice. I mean, it sounds VERY polite... but not nice (there is a difference)
Besides, Canada works best by not being at open war--so much as Peace Keeping... or just assassinating world leaders for similar justifications as Hannibal Lector--and letting the Americans take credit
So the entire world would OFFICIALLY be at Peace... and there would be no genocides--just people going missing after going out for walks. That group of people all individually went out for a walk--and something appears to happen to them... individually... in the same location. That they had no choice but to walk through
But hey! We have Timbits and Tim Hortons! Who doesn't love Donut Holes and their Double Double? You can do the right thing and just not notice that other stuff happening (it is really easy)--and watch that Hockey game!
Again... Canadian Empire sounds polite... but not really nice at all... but still VERY polite. I mean, if you aren't polite, you might find yourself having to go for a walk one day... and since you were rude you'd not have the buddy system to help you out. So it is best to be VERY polite
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 I think the only thing in the world more full of fail than our current government is what's left of the Habsburgs.
22:10 "I am completely fine with a system that's filled with hypocrisy, and organizations that lack the power to implement change, a nation where the justice system is corrupt, and a variety of loopholes exist that the government can use to grant itself more power than it's legally allowed to have."
-Templin Institute, 2021
Based
@enotsnavdier6867 interesting
Theirs something I want to point out in the Shanghai picture. You see large ring buildings. In modern day Shanghai, their is a famous building known as the “bottle opener” due to its SQUARE hole at the top. As locals complained that a circular hole would be too reminiscent of the Japanese sun.
Oh, that's funny.
What a shallow and stupid reason to change a design. Any circle is reminiscent of the Japanese sun. The sun is reminiscent of the Japanese sun. We should blot out the sun for that😂.
@@KeiKAndLies You have to keep in mind that Shanghai was one of the focus points for Japan's WWII atrocities in China. There is still a lot of bad feeling there about that.
@@KeiKAndLiesYou also have to keep in mind, similar to what vikiai said, The Rising Sun for a lot of Asia is on the level of the Swastika for the majority of the West- that is, incredibly offensive to use or even mention considering the connotations of the regimes they remind people of
Oh my God that's hilarious
38:21 I'm fairly certain that "treating the symptom instead of the cause" is the most accurate description of human governments in history
Honestly, "wrap historical buildings in plastic to protect them from acid rain while doing nothing of substance otherwise" seems entirely plausible.
Yeah. But if your air is do polluted your historical landmarks are getting damaged, it's probably doing a number on your current buildings--or forcing you to use expensive protective materials. Not to mention how bad it's got to be for your people.
@@pancake_crab4457 if putting buildings in a plastic bag makes the tourist stay, than that’s all they will do. As for the people, authoritarian regimes don’t care unless it threatens their power.
@@daydev2599 We should be more surprised this hasn't already happened, if anything. The issue is very much a real thing affecting historic buildings today.
What do you mean our education system is shit? Just throw more money at it!
When they launch star citizen, the game will already be set in the past
You say that like they'll ever launch it
"Yeah, people used to physically move between planets in these things called 'spaceships' instead of using instantaneous subspace teleportation or quantum entanglement mind-transplant cybernetic proxies."
"Fucking lmao, what trogs"
yea better to launch this like fallout, or anthem, or cybersucks, yea, much better
@@petevoo8353 Cyberpunk is not that bad on the newer consoles.
Star Citizen is a wonderful Video Game Themed Ponzi Scheme that makes a wonderful argument for investing in Dogecoin!
I mean, you could spend money on Star Citizen... and uh... something? Or spend money on Dogecoin, and be a Meme Emperor!
I think the term Empire gains much more credence when you have a multi-alien threat. People could absolutely be wanting to feel closer to one another and that is where I think you can have a positive empire connotation. Empire has a powerful feeling behind it. I could see humans wanting to feel powerful. But also not all humans are in the Empire. There are actually several human factions here.
yup and that's not even getting into the potential of the Earth/Terra split which will probably be a thing at some point.
@@leeschulken8744 what are you referring to?
@@thehighground3630 Some people want Earth to be the capitol others want Terra to be the Capitol. It's a rather large issue for a lot of people i think.
@@leeschulken8744 Earth and Terra are one and the same.
@@thehighground3630 In Star Citizen Earth and Terra are two different planets.
United Empire of Earth: "Yay! We're going to form a galactic federation!"
Galactic Federation: "...this, again?"
I've seen a certain Jingles frequently crack jokes about how Star Citizen is too ambitious, but this is taking it to a whole new level.
Wouldn't have thought to see the Rear Admiral referenced in the Institute comments, but here we are.
*the Mighty Jingles hahah
@@lyman6 I've seen a lot of interaction between youtubers I never would have thought knew each other lately.
I love Jingles but no offense to him he knows nothing of Star Citizen and was even reached out to by the community to give him a full tour slash breakdown. He responded to none of them so his criticism is basically void.
@@carsoncarolina2358 I get the feeling that SC community looks from the outside as some kind of unreasonable cult to uninitiated, members of which will go to any lengths to “convert” those who do criticism about subject matter. So one can understand him, he did criticism and suddenly many people are approaching him with notions of “in depth toor”, with clear indication “you just don’t get it”.
I kinda subscribe to this POV, but not aggressively. I just try to stay away from the community of this game and make my own judgements, without spiritual guides.
38:20 "Why would they treat the symptom and not the root cause?"
You say that as if that isn't every government or corporation's response to every problem they come across.
Hahaha we're all gonna die.
@@Pyreleaf yep
You say that like an American
seeing as the root cause is usually capitalsim, solving that is not allowed, so symptom it is.
If you can profit on it, why fix it?
"The imperial Dynasties of Ancient Vietnamn were not terribly concerned with regulating the internet"
Sounds based
Cap
“Imagine if the head of your country announced tomorrow that they had decided to change their title to emperor”
Me as a Russian:
"Well, time to finally develop a national ideology and reborn the spirit of the Great Times'. *Vyatka starts playing*
Why yes, I enjoy listening to Vyatka_super for the third time in a row, how could you tell?
It's like he forgot about Trump and his followers wanting him to be declared Emperor. Pml, but this guy thinks hes an authority on reality? Look around the world dipshit 73% of the World's dictators are armed by America ! We are good mates with some of the most violent and authoritarian nations on earth, even a *literal Kingdom where they chop off people's heads* 🙄
@@uncannyvalley2350 well that's was never going to happen. As you may know from history Hitler came to power as chancellor and then became e the funeral after the death of Von Bismark. This was recorded in history so since then declaring yourself an emperor especially in nations who don't respect the ideology of empire is not good long term prospect
I wonder. As a Russian, how do you feel about Putin's President For Life/Tsar/Premier mindset?
@@alexeyvlasenko6622 ибо нехай
Another thing the Star Citizen universe seems to miss is how Caesar, who Messer evidently was based on, became dictator. Roman leaders were expected to lead armies directly, and senators could raise armies under the Marian reforms more effectively. The closest one can come to this would be for each planet to have its own military capacity, and a leader of that world would raise forces to march on Earth and declare martial law and the leader declare himself dictator. But that's assuming a lot.
google is your friend, just saying...
just type "Ivar Messer I - Galactapedia", your question will be answered there. The Galacatpedia is CIG's own lore wiki, where you can already find a ton of reading material about Star Citizens lore. The Lore Team keeps expanding it, adding multiple articles every week.
caesar never managed to become a true 'dictator'. it was a title bestowed in martial times and meant something different than what we use it for today. he was assassinated before he declared himself a monarch
Not to mention Ceasar was coming after decades of eating at the 'standards' of the Republic with senator-generals and civil wars, and even then, it was a few more rounds before Augustus managed to stabilize the system.
@@bahayesilyurt9433 It's not so much you 'become' a dictator as you're declared one. It's not so different than being given emergency powers today. In lieu of writing a several page thesis on the matter, I said it as it was. Any other interpretation of the meaning is made by you.
@@tremor3258 Precisely.
But then, three days later, Musk crowned himself "Technoking" of Tesla, Mars, and probably the universe in general.
You literally couldn't write this stuff.
Wtf, I had to google this, I thought it was a joke! 😂
Lol.
You just wrote this stuff tho...
"Technoking"
We were so close to having a Fabricator-General and you blew it, Elon. You blew it
He's also just meme-ing as he usually does. Unlike this "prime citizen" shit
In a space-faring civilization setting, it would be reasonable to make some cities along the equator the new "capital of earth" or "trade center". They could have grown significantly during the early years of space expansion due to their convenient latitude, or even due to their proximity to space elevators. That would be a lot more interesting than just revamping modern megacities.
In fact, the Gundam universe does a great job at this: in the UC timeline, Dakar is the political capital of the Earth Federation; they also have their largest military base and command center, Jaburo, in the Amazons (of course I wouldn't know where exactly).
Yeah
Halo has New Mombasa, as well, due to it's proximity to the space elevator. As well as Sydney having ended up functioning as capital due to the nearby location of HIGHCOM Bravo-6 (which is also a weird aside- as far as the description goes, there's not much indication that Sydney functions like a modern capital, in that it's merely home to an important part of the military command structure following the destruction of the forward staging ground on Reach. If earth hadn't spent so much time under martial law, it's possible that the capital would still be Manhattan due to it being the UN space command, not the Australian Space Command)
"Democracy's forming into dictatorships is rare"
Ancient Athens: "am I a joke to you?"
Yeah but ancient Greek dictatorships were kind of a joke. They often only lasted one or two years because the dictator would give a power back to the democracy. I can’t remember which Athenian dictator was but they basically begged him to remain dictator for life and he simply turn them down and went back to being a farmer
@@Phox532 that's when they find the good dictator, it takes one bad dictator to keep power in there family forever
Not to mention WW2 Germany. People often forget that Hitler himself was democratically elected - by a pretty liberal democratic society - and then used those same democratic systems to undermine the entire thing until he essentially became Emperor in all but title (although the title of "Fuhrer" is probably as close to that of "Emperor" as to make no difference linguistically).
France has too turn from a democtratic state to an empire with Napoleon. And there are a few recent examples in eastern Europe I think.
Weimarer Republik, am i a Joke to you?
Oh dear mother of God. This is not gonna be pretty.
I had to stop and get some tea and snacks after seeing the run time on this, Dis gun bee gud
It was not pretty
@@lusar626 I know. I actually watched the whole video.
@@tronmaster5704 quite honestly it was a massacre
Especially not if word gets out to the SC White Knights.
"Grab another can of vanilla coke"
*looks at actual can of vanilla coke in hand*
Uh, yeah mark I'm sure you're right I need another.
Vanilla coke aka the nectar of the gods. Lol
Vanilla Pepsi's still better.
@@boxcarz Strongly disagree. Pepsi is only good out of a fountain and I still prefer coke.
vanilla coke is repulsive
@@boxcarz HERESY! 😆
Maybe I missed something in the lore but my understanding was the entire reason the UEE is called "EMPIRE" and why technology stagnated is because for several hundred years humanity was a dark age of tyranny under the Messers. That's why the government is a mess and technology went through a period of stagnation.
The UEE military emblems look more like military badges than emblems.
Though speaking of it’s kind of weird how tanks don’t seem to exist in a lot of space settings. Tanks are cool. Space tanks sound double cool.
UEE has tanks
@@yestermonth *Tonks
Tanks are great, but why use tanks when you have something hundreds of times more powerful that can fly? You could argue that we still have tanks in the real world when helicopters and jets exist, but those both have disadvantages not shared by frikkin’ spaceships.
@@leinadreign3510 right
@@Numl0k tanks are cheaper than space ship and can hold ground far cheaper
Here in Brazil there are monarchists who wants to reinstitute the monarchy, renaming the Federative Republic of Brazil to Empire of Brazil, as was the official name of the country until 1889, and having an Emperor as head of state. Granted, the monarchists are a small group, but it is a real life example of a political faction that don't shy away from this imperial terminology. Perhaps the name "empire" just don't have the same negative conotation in all over the world? All those political views changes over the time. Remember that in Roman Empire the title King (Rex) had a very negative conotation, and thus the name Imperator was created. Today, it may be inverted. Who knows how people will think in the future?
Yea i think the term empire could eventually become a reusable term anyways since everyone already knows that the old fashion term for empire is a thing of the past they could reuse it to refer to nation with colonial territories in multiple planets
I agree, his vision on realistic goverments seem extremely USA centric, but to be fair, generally speaking USA is the country that gets to have all these universes as a force that engulf the other countries (maybe China, Japan or an eastern state gets salved). But it generally engulf latinos (all of them, not just latin america, europe too) as part of the west world despite having huge diferences in specific areas (like having imperial terms in a good or positive mood in a least a fraction of the population). This is probably because there isn't a latin superpower and virtually all of these countries are allied with more anglo/yanki countries.
Coming from Spain, people wanted to reinstaure absolute monarchy up to when Franco got to power. Heck, part of Franco's power was based on him letting the goverment in the hands of a royal family member and the only reason Carlist are no longer a thing is because the bloodline was killed completely during Franco's regime. Heck, even today having blood and coming from a "good" family is still important.
You have to see his "naming interstellar empire" video its soooo badly researched and so based on stereotypes it *hurts*
@@dirckthedork-knight1201 To be fair, it's not bad to have as a guideline to know more or less what people expect from those names. Although, I'm personally not a fan of interstellar states or FTL travel, really.
@@Ditidos I think FTL can be interesting but its poorly imagined and FTL tech concepts rely on theoretical science, just to mention another concept regarding space flight i would want to see is the stress of movement to not just its crew but even the spacecraft itself, everything from a rapid turn accidentally liquefying its crew to a ship with a heavily damaged frame getting ripped apart due to accelerating to much turning the ship into a artificial debris field that's moving in catastrophic speeds, just imagine the scenarios people could depict in film and games
So straight up, the plastic wrap buildings would be a cool idea, if those buildings were treated as museums or done for historic preservation. Not with the intent of actually being used as an office building still.
There's so, so many better ways to do it though. Nanolaminates come to mind. =w=
Yeah, the whole "put each building in gigantic glass cases" just feels really lazy. How much more interesting if they had a "historical preservation dome" over part of NYC with a filtered atmosphere? It could have been a major national project and have its own lore, like the Hoover Dam
I would expect the new buildings to be build over the top of them. kind of like that one apartment building with a train running through the middle of it. So yes a skyscraper hole in the side of a new megascraper
@@SilverMe2004 something similar to China in deus ex human revolution?
There’s a sci-fi book series called Empire Rising where the United Nations was replaced with a UK inspired empire, though that was because many of Earth’s cities are just levelled by a hostile alien race and most humanity’s national leaders were dead.
I'd love to see a deep dive like this into BattleTech. It surprised me how deep the lore goes, while still hanging on to some jankiness from the 80s.
My absolute favorite bit of BT lore is how they retconned the animated TV show to basically be a shlocky in-universe recruitment tool. DO YOU HEAR THAT GAMES WORKSHOP, THATS HOW YOU RETCON OLD CONTENT haha
They'd prolly say the same thign even though a common theme in battle tech is how humanity finds ways of regressing despite technology reaching heights never imagined.
This wasn't a deep dive, he just spent too much time talking about his shallow research attempt... Like really shallow... Like got stuck of the surface tension shallow
Tex of the BlackPantsLegion does deep dives into BT lore through complete histories of the Mechs. I highly recommend you check it out. I find it utterly fascinating how they portray a dystopian universe where the military complex has been turnt to 1500% and "hipity-hopity get off my property" means glassing a planet.
@@Fenrir152 I'm already subscribed to Tex and Big Red. Just nice to see something from a fresh perspective. Everyone has their own take on things. See the many MANY Star Wars channels but it still gets covered here too
The UEE insignia is literally just a bad take on the UN flag.
A literal rip-off with a globe would be nicer.
Its looks alike some sort of peronist trade union logo.
The UEE logo is heavily cribbed from the Southeastern Conference logo.
It looks like the UN flag combined with the old style insignia of german companies from the 1900-1940. It would feel right at home on an old machine or radio
That UEE Building in NYC is at the same place as the UN HQ today.
Templin: posts a video about the UEE.
Me:
Also Templin: posts a video critiquing Star Citizen's lore.
Me:
We defy easy classification.
@@TemplinInstitute Like the mighty Platypus.
@@BeepBoopFriendo great example
@@BeepBoopFriendo In my opinion, there should be a new classification for life forms called "Hell If We Know."😂
CIG has been fairly preoccupied with gameplay all this time such that not a lot has been shown about fleshing out of the universe. We are indeed told a lot of "what is", but I kinda find the "why" department wanting at times.
Templin is merely asking the inevitable questions.
The game takes place like 900 years in the future, and given that empire has only been a bad word for roughly 100 years, it's a bit solipsistic to assume that in the next 9 centuries there could be similar swings in feelings on the matter. History is not a one way street.
Imagine, in 900 years they spit on democracies because democracies caused the third world warh or something... Maybe they failed to deal with a pandemic...
@@thehighground3630 hmmm... Failed to control a great Pandemic. What a excellent Sci-Fi concept!
I will start a Storyboard on it, for the date... hmmm! ho. I know, what about First January 2022? It's The Future alright?
Wonderfull idea, it is as if you lived trought that or something...
Rome again is the perfect example.
Went from a Republic to an absolutist state. All while doing it's best to remain a Republic.
That’s a good name
I approve
I think it would be incredibly interesting to see some resurgence of some form of constitutional monarchy in science fiction. Similar to a more democratic political structure of Dune (which in turn was inspired by the technofeudalism of the Foundation). Space is a vast and extremely dangerous place. I could see future generations wanting to have the benefits of the democratic rule while also having the stability of a "monarch" of some kind that is hereditary and can address both internal and external threats with some degree of independence from a grid-locked process. That being said, putting limits on what the monarch can do (whatever their title is) would also add to the interest. Like a ruler who can pass executive laws, but can't curtail congress/the assembly and votes in the legislature can review and even straight-up block autocratic bulls. In a universe where travel between one side of a nation and the other can be painfully long - even with superluminal travel - there would be issues that would need to be addressed that I don't think a simple democracy would be able to handle.
"High General is a dumb title. Should go with something more epic and interesting, like... Lord Solar." - Not a WH40K fan
Lord General Militant?
Lord commander could work
@@LAV-III What about High Commander? Commander-in-Chief?
Wait a minute?
"If the pollution is so bad as to melt concrete, why would they deal with the symptom instead of the root problem"
I'm sorry mark but if I'm honest that's probably the most realistic part of the setting 😂
If humans have any special ability it's that they are very good at delaying problems instead of fixing them until it's the next generations problem
100% we don't do anything until it is already way to late if we can't delay it. Example: Human history
@@brianthegould another good example: My homework
It's more most humans don't go about thinking about the future because now exists and would rather try to solve now's problems thinking they will get worse in the future, which unintentionally solves nothing and just creates more problems. It's like trying to understand why some are pre-emptive with their actions and others are reactive.
I think we are assuming that humanity that could get off its home planet is at least competent enough to understand problem solving, unlike reality.
To be fair, "realistic" in writing and realistic in reality aren't even close to the same thing.
What's the old quote? Reality would be the worst book ever because it isn't consistent or something?
“Imagine if the head of your country announced tomorrow that they had decided to change their title to emperor”
*looks at the Reichstag* Give it another 15 years. We already repeated the Spanish Flu...
From Captain to leader is impossible... *looks at Hitler and coughs* *Looks at Stalin and coughs*
He didn't say impossible, he said it made no sense to go from minor military hero/captain to five star general in two years, followed by transition to Prime Citizen and then Imperator within months. For this kind of thing to happen, people need to be pulling for you from the beginning and obstacles need to be actively removed. Just a cult of personality isn't enough to do it. Compare, for example, Teddy Roosevelt, who started out wealthy/privileged and took about 15 years to become president after making a name for himself. Even Hitler took roughly 18 years to complete his ascension from decorated soldier to chancellor. (I mention Teddy Roosevelt because he was extremely charismatic and came closer than anyone else to successfully becoming president without support from any political party.)
Hitler wasn't called an Emperor. The problem is more about the title than about the powers implied. He had his "fuhrer" nickname and was technically Chancellor and President, but never Emperor.
Plus it took him (and Stalin) a lot of years to get there
*Looks at GEORGE WASHINGTON and wheezes*
Or how 'bout fuckin' Napoleon or CEASAR!
I'm "happy" to tell you, we've also started to repeat the "Insane maniac trying to conquer european nations" part of history aswell.
“Imagine if the head of your country announced tomorrow that they had decided to change their title to emperor”
Germans: Not again...
honestly, my thought as i heard this was
"the entire world is going to roll up on our doorstep in tanks and shit.
for the third time.
in a row.
would be kinda embarassing tbh"
Hitler didn´t call himself emperor. Kinda reinforces the point the video makes.
@@XMysticHerox Napoleon did though. Both of them! Napoleon I changed his title from First Consul to Emperor in 1804 and Napoleon III changed his title from President to Emperor in 1852. Fun fact: Napoleon III was the first popularly elected head of state of France, and its last monarch :D
@@danielkristiansen2298 Napoleon declared himself Emperor in a nation that was a monarchy 5 years before. A highly unstable nation in a world with essentially no democratic tradition. Where this form of government was the norm.
Obviously none of this applies to the SC lore even remotely. It´s a 500 year old democracy that by all accounts is highly stable at this point and in fact just won a war.
Messer is obviously based on Napoleon but it wasn´t done with a good understanding of the actual history or geopolitics generally. It´s more like someone just skimmed the wiki article on Napoleons rise to power and copied it one to one. It just seems little thought has been put into this.
You could absolutely justify an Empire. Frankly I think a democracy would be just fine and generally more plausible but you could certainly come up with a believable series of events that would destabilize the UN enough for an Empire to become at least somewhat plausible. But this just isn´t done in the lore. Instead it´s a very lazy carbon copy of Napoleon which makes no sense.
All 0f The world's military's Drive tanks on the man who called himself Emperor
Good lord, after all this years, the speech displayed in the Intro is still atrociously bad...Sounds like it was written by an edgy teenager with nick xXDarkNinjaXx.
My thoughts exactly. Voice acting’s not bad tho.
@@spacedoutorca4550 "voice acting" yeah, but considering it's mocapped and it's Gary fucking Oldman, the performance is just abysmal. Dunno if he was tired as fuck or underpaid, but that's painful.
Mark Hamill even got the name of the game wrong when he last mentioned it. It is just a bland project for them that solely exists because Chris Roberts wants to say he worked with A-list actors. Watch Wing Commander the Movie for more terrible cringe.
@@levishaun8334 From what I have read, the script and the directions given by Chris Roberts during shooting were really poor.
Gary Oldman is one of the greatest actors of our time and the fact that even *HE* cannot make this work is saying something about Star citizen writing.
@@Kalckie yeah, you can't do much if the script is dogshit and the director (as a director) is only known for one meme of a movie. I think our old buddy Chris doesn't know how it works. Hey, I hired a great actor, all is good, now holywood magic time, - but he actually believes that it's magic.
33:05 this is actually a common mistake that people make in their mindset when designing fictional military hardware - i did it too:
they don't realize that whatever space for crew is, from the standpoint of military design, a very unfortunate necessity, as opposed to primary concern.
until you actually climb into a real, fully equipped tank, most people don't get that, so instead of designing military hw like "cram it full of ammo and weapons, and... dammit, yeah, we also need to jam some crew in there to operate it", they do "so this is the entrance hallway, this is the guestroom, these are the super-erconomic gaming chair command posts, here we have a kitchen... oh yeah, there's some guns and ammo over there, in case we need it"
Ships during the age of sail could have rather nice officer quarters.
But yeah, a tank probably not.
Leg room is for command staff (lt. colonel and up) only, which is to say, none of the people who would be driving tanks
Yeah, that's true. The military does not prioritize comfort, having a hallway in a tank looks really dumb. The military would never leave an empty hallway in a tank, they'd probably cram in more ammo, or another gun or just add a new motor or something to increase speed but, leaving empty space is a big no no
@@ashishchoudhary6982 Not exactly, there are some schools of thought that crew comfort plays a large role in crew effectiveness. For instance, Commonwealth-style tanks are well known to have Boiling Vessels (BVs) to heat food and tea (not even a joke). The IDF has Merkavas which have high-performance air conditioning and can even be fitted with an internal toilet for long-duration missions. For aircraft, there are entire military studies on how comfortable pilot seats are.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have any Soviet AFV which can be considered a war crime against the crew and any passengers with how tightly packed they were. You've also got for instance the Bradley IFV which will have dismounts spending literal weeks in the back and the bench is well... it's not fun.
That all being said a tank having a hallway is fuckin stupid and honestly isn't even a tank by that point
@@foxtrot8982 Oh, interesting. I didn't knew about the boilers, thanks for info.
If they want to Rome feel including a branch of government simply called "The Senate" would certainly helps. I suspect that they fleshed out the parts of government that players will be actually interacting with, i.e. the police and military, meanwhile everything else, the stuff that players probably won't encounter in game, gets lumped into a "miscellaneous" pile.
Not only is the Nova tank absurdly large. it's designed with so many shot traps...
It's a very very silly looking tank, but reading up about it's capabilities it does make more sense when you consider the three energy shield generators and the fact that it was designed for a war against aliens that predominantly used hover technology. Less going hull down and more elevating the gun to pop low flying drop ships and whatever hover vehicles the Tevarin used.
The Imperator is just an alternate timeline where Kanye wins.
But Jesus is king
Hail Victory.
Wait... he didn't?
@@jaxkommish Nah. I hear he was beaten by some old-fart.
"an alternate timeline where Kanye wins"
...Alternate? Don't count your chickens before they hatch, son, we got some time left and Kanye isn't that old.
The official Russian Emperors title in russian was "Imperator"
Yes. What happened to that guy again?
@@neine999 Imperator was changed to Weperator
Was being the operative word
And ironically, the Roman Emperor's title was not. "Imperator" was an honorific granted a Consul/General by his legions for a military victory and meant "give this hero a parade" because it allowed the Imperator to enter Rome under a Triumph with his troops to be honored [otherwise, without permission from the Senate, the army had to be disbanded before crossing the border into the core of the republic/empire, at the Rubicon River]. Caesar's [and Pompey's to deal with him] title was Dictator, the equivalent of "emergency powers" that many Presidents and Prime Ministers can invoke with the approval of the Legislature. It lasted a predetermined amount of time, usually until the current situation was dealt with, or 6 months, whichever came first, and granted sweeping powers to the Dictator [who could basically speak laws into being] related to the emergency [we don't care how you do it Pompey, just stop Caesar].
Caesar had 1 other title that when combined with being declared Dictator lead to his complete takeover: Pontifex Maximus or high priest.
Caesar had the authority to make up holidays and declare them to stop time sensitive votes from happening.
@@louisduarte8763 no. The "Third Rome" is pretty much just a historical name for an ideology dominating Imperial Russia's policies of XVIII-XIX century aimed at making Russia into one of religious captials of the world. By "Rome" it means Byzantine Empire, not the ancient one.
Don't forget that the anchors used in both real world insignia shown are "foul anchors", anchors which have become intertwined with their cables. This is often taken to mean steadfastness and hope in times of tribulation.
Good video. The whole empire ideology was spurred from the results of the two Tevarin wars (humanity's first war against aliens) and the people recognizing Messer as a hero/savior. This allowed him to get the powerful role and setup titles for his family as the population saw him as the protector of humanity against the unknown threat of the extraterrestrial.
I'm far from an expert in the lore, but I could see how this could band humanity into the type of government in star citizen. Keep in mind, the messers were over thrown like 100 yrs ago, so society is still recovering & reforming from that family rule structure that was in place for a few hundred years.
Me: Been playing Star Citizen for years
Also Me: "Wait this game has lore?"
Same
and a really good lore. if you can read it do it
No, it's actually a quickstart guide.
"Playing"?
I mean, until last year or so, it wasn't more than a Tech Demo and still it hasn't that much features in it besides of "Kinda space travel/space battle in smaller groups", "mining", "running around in smaller groups".
Or are there already the whole "Hundreds of Players can fight each other, Ships can be captured and whole Planets brought to their Knees"-Stuff in it?
That's the beauty of it. You don't have to know the lore. You don't even have to know there IS lore. That's your choice if you choose to be a historian. You enter the 'Verse, you do what you want. No lore to hold you back or get bogged down in.
When your game's lore is so bad that an entire channel has to break character...
@@anno-fw7xn Godzilla had a stroke reading this and fucking died.
@@leonardusrakapradayan2253 Pretty sure the whole monsterverse had a stroke too
@@p-monarch8435 Well shit, we're not gonna have much of a future left now are we-
What the sweet fuck are you actually trying to say?
@@anno-fw7xn Funny. Your comment has as much depth as the lore of SC.
I'd say that the most likely reason that the UEE has a lot more authoritarian elements (merged policing and judiciary, no civilian oversight of the military, jumbled parties, etc.) is that they are remnants of the older Imperial system, and were only kept in place likely due to having to make deals with those previous elements as not to completely cause a collapse post-revolution.
In defense of the insignia, you could imagine a future society foregoing historical symbolism and emotion for simple, recognizable symbols. For example, if he hadn't said so, I would never know the first comparison was a symbol of the U.S. Army, but I immediately recognized armed forces vibes on the UEE's symbol without having to see 'ARMY' in big print or reading on Wikipedia for what all the elements represent.
It looks at least to me more like badges, those on the sleeve along serial numbers but you do have a point. I just personally prefer the more intricacies of the CRN or the BMC
You know what would be a cool way to show advanced infrastructure, and new-age technology being incorporated into real cities? Show how that tech helps with the limited space in those cities. A big issue in large cities is how limited available space to develop is. This sort of thing would be extremely visible and easy to incorporate into the art, whether it was floating promenades or huge canyons of stone and steel stretching upwards towards the sky.
Also how sci-fi technology helps a city still exist in future. Since a lot of coastal cities just won't exist in a few hundred years due to sea level rising.
Doing Earth is a long ways off yet... But, would spacecraft like thruster helping to stabilize 5km tall metal skinned buildings utilizing many of the same systems a starship uses work?
If you look at the city Scape it brings up a interesting point how do people live in the cities most of them forcefully limit there space when there fucking deserts bloody deserts but they still underbuild there Cities
My god those emblems. Designer: "What do you want the military emblems to look like?" Game Director: "IDK, just throw some random shapes together or something, its not important."
So, much like today.
@@uncannyvalley2350 Nah, today they have to pass approval from traditionalist military people
@@sethb3090 you must not have seen many flags
Have you seen the current US Army's go to logo for shirts, advertising, patches, etc....
@@robinwolf7809 yeah I'll grant that the US Army hasn't had any (official) interesting creative design choices in at least 2 decades.
The Nova tank (interior waste aside) looks like it'd be a good low-gravity tank. The size and bulk don't really matter in low gravity environs so much allowing you to fit a much larger gun, but honestly the concept of a low-gravity tank is so niche that I don't think a governmental body would worry too much about it without some form of contractor corruption.
The Nova is actually kind of an IFV. It has jumpseats for a (very) small Fireteam, which considering the small-unit nature of ground combat in Star Citizen/Wing Commander makes perfect sense;
Large infantry formations are not effective or safe when Ortillery can remove entire grid squares in an instant. Static targets are dead targets, and large targets are easy to spot and focus on.
So, a small 3-4 man team can move with the tank, screening for infantry and clearing HAB structures.
If and when a larger infantry presence is required (likely after friendlies have gained orbital superiority) , a dedicated APC like the Spartan can roll up, covered by a Nova's guns, to deploy larger units of infantry for occupation, more thorough clearing of buildings, etc.
Zzz ellil
Oo
I’m
Now just imagine what would happen if a large scale explosion (say from another "tank" or some ground ordinance) went of under a tank... in low gravity. The result is probably why low gravity tanks would ultimately make zero sense.
@@zerolegacy7821 Thats... not how gravity works. The mass of a tank is exactly the same on the moon as on earth- it's still almost certainly easier to accelerate some form of penetrator to sufficient speeds to damage the tank than to actually move the tank sufficiently (if you can move the entire tank around 5mph, you're probably driving the tank). It'd have implication for traction in response to recoil, certainly, but they are unlikely to turn over. Also, moving back to invertable tanks is probably more feasible in low gravity, as the seat-belt situation would be less uncomfortable when strapped in upside down than it was when they were first invented.
I am revisiting this video. Much of what you say here is contingent on extrapolating present prejudices. The term empire may not always retain pejorative or negative connotations (we still have the Empire of Japan). Napoleon probably raised a few eyebrows by calling himself First Consul after the French Revolution, even though aping the Classical World was already 400 years old at that point. However, I do agree with you that the lore is pretty sparse and shallow - but not as sparse and shallow as the game is now.
Actually, Japan simply calls itself the Japanese State.
Yeah, the lore isn't fully complete yet because they don't want to block their creative team into being forced to create everything as detailed by the lore people. If they, say, described a ship in major detail, then the design guys would have to build that ship. If the lore team talked about a planet with floating islands held up by magnetism, then the planetary tech team would have to build it. This stifles creativity in a sense, and locks people into tasks. So, they only add in new lore when there's an actual game reason for it
yea pretty much, the flags themselves particularly annoy me since they look more like corporate logos than the emblems of a nation, I have more backstory behind the blocky ass shape I picked from a list when making my flag in stellaris
Even corporate logos have symbolism and significance to them, they literally look like those stickers that come with cheap plastic toys.
@@aetranm Depends, some good ones can have I admit, but there are also many that don't.
I'm pretty sure my faction of 'The Hierarchy of Big Dave the long' had more backstory than this.
Yeah, cos corporate rule of Nations is totally unrealistic........
..........
I mean I’ve seen the Japanese prefectural flags favorably compared to corporate logos before...
"I made thsi ficcional goberment ineficient to show how goberment is ineficient"
Has the same energy of "jokes on them i was just pretendending to be an idiot"
Dude, what kind of language are you speaking in?
@@fancyfish4094 i got a shitty keyboard
@@anarquia201 Thame
@@anarquia201 i legit thought that was some kind of mocking phrasing
cheems posting
Damage being done to buildings by air pollution is a real concern. It's especially common in buildings made of stone; for example, ancient Greek structures; thanks to the air pollution in Athens, friezes on the outside of buildings are wearing away at a frightening rate. One of the proposed solutions is indeed to encase the buildings in some kind of protective bubble.
While concrete and steel are generally not as badly affected, it's quite conceivable that in the next 900 years there could be some new form of air pollution that _does_ damage concrete.
A counter to the "Empire" issue. I could see humanity switching to viewing empire in a positive light again if enough poor interactions with aliens occured for a deep xenophobia to take place. In which case, a stable human dominion over alien races would probably be seen in a positive light.
All those UEE logos look like shabby Create-A-Team logos in old EA Sports games lmao 🤣 😆 😂
Roberts striking back after the Origin acquisition by EA.
The guy in the beginning straight up sounds like one of the Geriatric High lords of Terra from 40k TTS.
Have you considered doing a reimagining of the world of Star Citizen like you did with the First Order?
Plot twist: The rebellion against Messer's regime was because the madman outlawed pineapple pizza.
That's just stupid. Now if it was the other way around and he made pineapple a mandatory part of a pizza then yeah I can see that happening.
@@smiglo112 Reverse uno: It's because of both reasons.
@@ClassicMagicMan pffffff that was a good one
"No pineapple on your pizza?
How about no head on your fucking shoulders!?"
me: If we don't win, we die.
Crowd: cheering
Khorne will be so pleased!
We must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
Isn't that kind of the point considering that the Vanduul slaughter every human being when they take a planet?
While I agree with most of your points (and it's actually prompted me to go back and revise my own sci-fi worldbuilding), I'd argue that a few of your issues, especially with the ship/tank design, aren't problems with the lore, but game design concessions. The Nova tank has so much empty interior space because players need to be able to navigate inside it using the established metrics and animations. All the ships in Star Citizen are oversized for their crew complement and function because gameplay is prioritized over realism.
I'd also argue that a lot of the concept art you've based your critique on has to be taken with a massive grain of salt, since it was developed before the game's aesthetics were finalized, and concept work was still being outsourced to freelancers. I expect the Earth cities in the final game will look VERY different to the concept art we have right now.
And an Independent won the election because players were allowed to elect the next Imperator, and they voted for the one that seemed to promise the most interesting future gameplay. Whether or not the devs should have even offered an independent candidate is another matter, though.
I feel like it should be noted that organic history rarely makes sense... sure you can make a synthetic history for world building, but real humans are unpredictable.
Best examples I have on mind is the australian was against the Emus,
Emperor Nero apointing his horse as an advisor
Or that mad lad who led a indian uprising against the spanish, had his arms cut off, then strapped two swords to his stumps and led a second uprising
So if anything i find Star Citizens Lore TOO predictable. It rides too much on narrative cause and effect where the good guy always wins. When in reality thats not the case.
Frankly, I find it not *too* impossible that an independent would win. We don't know the actual voting methods for this future society. We also don't know if it actually is a two party state. It could be a multi-party state, but with two plurality parties.
The tank's interior would make sense on a planet without breathable air.
@BenjaminTheRogue if you want a good player led desicion and how it was made, look at how they chose a fan-made faction for endless legend
@@j-pbelliveau4439 not really. Air would be compressed in gas cylinders.
Just FYI - the crown in our Navy emblem is the crown of the *Canadian* throne. Just because it currently happens to resemble the crown of the English throne, because the Queen of Canada and the Queen of England happen to be the same person, does not mean that it's the English crown. If the UK overthrew their monarch tomorrow, Elizabeth II would still be the Queen of Canada, and we'd require some major constitutional reform to change that, although typically, the Crown's authority is represented by the Governor General federally, and the Lieutenant Governors provincially (we're a confederation). And the Monarch of Canada is the commander of our armed forces; not the Prime Minister. :)
"Imagine if your country was renamed to [your country here] Empire."
...I'm British. Our entire political establishment is weirdly nostalgic and apologetic for the old Empire, that shit would be celebrated.
Your empire was dope.
@@thehighground3630 no it was pretty horrible actually
@@MoonatikYT I beg to disagree. I mean we put in one hell of an effort to destroy it but it was still cool as fuck.
@@thehighground3630 who's "we"
@@thehighground3630 it wasn't we murdered and starved more people than any other empire in world history. The casualties in our 400 year administration of India being the biggest source of casualties but by no means the only one. We basically did what we did to Ireland but longer and harder.
Having the military be it's own branch of the government is something I can buy in a futurist dictatorship.
But "branch" implies quite the independant structure. If there is no "senate" oversight and they just get money to do whatever they seem fit, this is inerently unstable. The main problem is really the timespan here. If the military earns money on its own (i.e. exploiting planets) there will come people around to rebel (as they have the means to do so in money+military power). If they just take money from civil income there will be friction between the military and the executive branch. To think this can be somewhat stable (aka no major fallouts in history) for 400 or so years is just not within any reasonable expectation.
You may get away with this premise when the imperator is some guy that can decimate 100s of soliders with a handwave. But how do you keep the real power a military has in check if they are not inherently under some form of oversight?!
@@florianh.6256 Why are people ignoring the full lore of Star Citizen? The UEE isn't some loved government without flaws in the lore, people all over hate them and there are rebels. Yeah, an empire like that would have push back, and it does, so where's the problem?
SC critics always think they know everything about a game they're obviously not familiar with. You can't know SC and not fall in love
How does Turkey work?
So...state capitalism?
I think, for me, the universe of Star Citizen is supposed to be something of a generic, blank slate meant to be built upon by the players once it reaches a finished state (whenever the hell that is). The history of the UEE gives a backdrop and some justification for player factions to form and create the history themselves. If and when this thing is finished, you're not going to be hearing about people's experiences with NPC governments or raiders. You're going to hear how one coalition of players duked it out with another over mining rights in a particular asteroid patch, or how one band of mercenaries managed to board and capture their rival's capital ship against all odds. I'm imagining narratives similar to the Halloween War in EVE Online on a more personal scale. So yes, a lot of things about Star Citizen's background make no sense, but it will more than likely be overshadowed by the lore the community builds up around itself.
You are giving the devs too much credit, the game won't be like EVE Online at all when it comes to player driven politics, that would require making the game a full on sandbox (meaning full on basebuilding and mining entire planets) and that is just not possible in the scope of SC. 100 handcrafted systems just doesn't lend itself well to EVE type of gameplay.
@@buragi5441 There is full on base building though?
@@Demozo_ Depends on what you mean. I think you might be misunderstanding the kind of game that it is. If you're talking about player-built structures and infrastructure, then yes, that powers almost the whole game economy. If you're talking about first-person structure building like Subnautica or NMS, no.
Theres already something that happened in the live universe that was added into the official games lore called The Jumptown Wars. It was a small outpost on a moon that manufactured drugs that were selling for a really high price in some places and had no cap on the amount that they would buy. So the area became heavily trafficked and with cargo vessels full of drugs started becoming a common sight...so did pirates, or rival traders who are now mad youve bought all the stock and theyre out of luck. It created factions and uneasy truces between individuals and orgs, and a battle zone large enough that the devs noticed and it was made a cannon event with its own story that now exists as the main theme of the settling of Stanton by the UEE. This video was low effort, and it shows.
@@Shamrock627 Except JT isn't part of the worldbuilding. It's neat that they recognized it, but it doesn't change a thing about how lazy and cheap the universe itself is.
As a world builder Id be very curious to see your entire list of things you check against! See how many of my own worlds pass the test.
That clip at 7:38, what is that from? I've googled every line of dialouge and can't find it.
"It is impossible to describe what can happen in 1000 years in the time I have available."
*looks at time stamp*
20 minutes left in the video
Bill Wurtz can spot you on this one
the fact that your checklist for military sci-fi included "pineapple pizza outlawed under penalty of torture" made me lmao
-also "space Soviet Union" literally exists in my own sci-fi universe-
@Mungo McGhee hi
As an avid reader of soviet sci-fi - Space Soviets are rad af
the pineapple on pizza joke is getting old if you take it seriously then you have a mental problem pineapple has bean on pizza since pizza was a thing deal with it.
Yes comrade.
@@phalanx3803 i feel like most havent tried it, me included. Might be good idk.
LMAO "did anyone make it this far into the video?" Even though this was playing in the back about a game I don't play or care for I was still paying attention so it seems. I'm actually shocked, you guys are clearly doing a great job. Keep it up.
12:35 who knows the backstory of this footage events or how can I google it?
I cant help but think the UEE logo is more of a footbal league than a nation.
Bootja really nailed how cringeworthy the dialog is, how Roberts managed to get that out of Gary Oldman is jaw dropping.
Only Gary Oldman can make those lines not forever sleep worthy
I think the reason why it might be such a basic hierarchy is that they actually want to implement it, please don't push them to make it more intricate! XD
There's no way a basic hierarchy would work spread out across dozens (if not hundreds) of star systems. Think about that a bit...
@@zerolegacy7821
NO
NO
NO
NO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@zerolegacy7821
NOT HERSHEY'S
"The No Goofy aliens" really got me lmao
I live in Russia. I wait everyday to hear the news of Putin's coronation )
*ZARDOME INTENSIFIES*
He's a mafia boss. He doesn't need a crown.
He already has one
Love your point about autocratic regimes going out of their way to not be seen as dictators. Best example is Octavian Augustus Caesar referring to himself as Princeps (first among equals) rather they trying to touch the term Emperor, King, or Rex.
that moment when you try to not be called an emperor and your name becomes synonymous with it. task failed successfully.
Interestingly, the title of emperor was (beginning with Rome) taken up in much the same way that president was; king has, at various periods in time, become a buzzword that triggered people. Augustus wasn't a king (rex), he was the imperator (which was basically an honorific military title that held none of the implications that it does now). Napoleon became emperor for similar reasons, as a direct consequence of the French Revolution and the disdain that had existed for the title (keep in mind, this was like, only 200ish years ago; it was only after the World Wars, specifically the first, that imperialistic government became stigmatized).
Nowadays, the titles have taken the reverse course; king and queen are considered tame due to their long history of either tempered or entirely ceremonial powers, while emperor and empress are seen in much the same way that king and queen were a few hundred years ago.
That being said, I do think alluding to kings, or monarchs in general, ruling due to divine right is over-generalized and greatly inaccurate. Kings existed all around the world, and the majority governed due to their ability to seize power from their rivals and establish hegemony over their compatriots. To say that the concept of kings is dependent on religion is not just wrong, it flies in the face of how powerful families attain power in the first place.
@@steve8610 Agreed fully
@BenjaminTheRogueI agree. Not everyone is gonna have the same opinions on titles, especially not in the future.
I would object to the first point a bit, as changes in external environment can quickly change public opinion about terminology. A somewhat minor example would be how the president of Belarus referred to himself as a dictator (without an overly high amount of domestic criticism) in an occasion. In the grand scheme of things, our viewpoints change quickly especially if the time scale is on centuries... And it is simply prejudice to use our current standard to judge something this fickely.
I like how in that clip you have to open the video we have the 'winged anchor' emblem on the guy's tunic. That's not an incredible Navy icon, but as far as things go it's decent, it at least makes it clear visually what branch it's for.
Uhm...can we get full look at that check-list for that stuff about military sci-fi...asking....for me
Might not be the complete edition, but I copied the list he put in the video. Here it is, unedited:
- Plausible/interesting politics
- Grounded & realistic universe
- Nation names make sense
- Takes place not too far in the future
- Takes place not too soon in the future
- Strong cool factor
- Multiple human nations
- Distinct & plausible ideologies
- Cool flags & emblems
- Pineapple pizzas outlawed under penalty of torture
- Proper use of ship types (frigate, cruiser, etc.)
- Interesting criminal underworld
- No goofy aliens
- Space Soviet Union
- Starships have a proper naming convention
- Proper understanding of military terminology
- Psychic powers have a damn good explanation
- No space monarchies
- No America-In-Space
- Canada is at least mentioned
- Swords only used for ceremonial purposes
- No one-dimensional alien civilizations
- Not everyone is a spaceship captain
- Products are not all space-themed
- Reasonably sized nations
- No artificial planets
- Modern-day flags have evolved
- No space gods or supernatural nonsense
- Ships have clever names
- Human empires don't call themselves empires
- Interesting history
- No Rome-In-Space
- Aliens aren't all humanoid
- Cool factor
- Multi-polar universe
- [Technology?] isn't too advanced
- [unreadable, but something to do with the Templin Institute]
@@d.b.4671 Your work, is most appreciated. Thank you.
@@d.b.4671 - Pineapple pizzas outlawed under penalty of torture
This means war.
@@d.b.4671 No Space themed products... Capitalism would like to have a say about that.
No Psi powers... Psi has always been a speculative fiction staple, well explained or not. Besides, nano-machines son!
@@d.b.4671 his republicanism disgusts me.
As for "Modern-day flags have evolved" *looks at Denmark and its flag from the 13th Century*
My country rebrands itself as empire.
The World: You tried this *TWICE* and look how it worked out for you.
Me: *Shrugs and puts on Stahlhelm* Empress Angela the First wants her coronation at Versailles and that´s "alternativlos", so see you at the Somme.
French or German?
@@HolyknightVader999 Hmm... "Stahlhelm", "Empress Angela", "alternativlos"... i'd say hes spanish!
@@McMoerder But there's only been one Spanish Empire. And there's been THREE German Empires, not two.
@@HolyknightVader999 Doesnt matter, Angela wills it! The forth time is the charm!
@@McMoerder until The red tide from Copenhagens universities are storming berlin with Frederiksen at vacation in israel orchestrating it all from the shadows.
I agree with you on most things, except the technology part. We have increased out technology logarithmically recently, yes; But we will run up against the laws of physics.
You can only make steel/aluminium/titanium structures so high. You can only accelerate particals to a certain speed - for a given energy. You can only shrink functioning electronics to [say] the molecular level, wherein it becomes as dense in 'information' as possible.
At some stage, we will reach a period where we can only advance in, at best, an inverse log rate.
Yes, we can use technology/science in new ways. But that is advancement sideways, not forward. Not forever.
Re: The Naming thing - I can see the idea of an Empire becoming less negative and more positive again in a period of intense instability - Empires still have a 'feel' of stability to them and if people are struggling with the basics like food security, security in general, water security, etc, etc, I can see the idea of an authoritarian but effective government appealing - i.e. "Well there are books I can't read anymore but my kids now have food and water and somewhere safe to sleep at night, so I can tolerate the empire". We sort of see this in Caesar's legion in the fallout universe - a firm hand but with generally predictable rules, whilst not ideal, is approved of by some people in a time of extreme uncertainty.
That said, yeah, the Roman names are abit too on the nose.
United Planets of Earth? That's a name fitting of Futurama, not a serious sci-fi setting. And also particularly poorly considered if it's supposed to be a government with greater representation to colony worlds. No one would agree to that name.
You mean like...Space Force...
@@AndrewDavid84 It's not any more egregious than AIR Force.
@@LightOfZeon it is though
I'm working on a comedy sci fi game that does have a United Planets, complete with the light-blue and white color scheme. But it's supposed to be a joke. And doesn't have the weird contradiction of being a union of planets OF one specific planet.
Noone did agree on that name, it's called 'United Empire of Earth'
We might be able to actually colonize space just in time for star citizen to be officially released.
Haha, such an original joke, SC critics are such big brains
I'm sure that people will be on Mars before SC is "done" because there is an actual motivation to get people on Mars but none whatsoever to finish SC as long as enough people keep dumping money into the game.
@@uncannyvalley2350. And SC fanboys like you need to go touch some grass.
@@dragonbornexpress5650 thats a cool story you made up to suit your feelings champ
*future*
Star citizen releases
GTA 6 delayed to 2900
The government in 11:45 seems to be modeled on imperial government of Han dynasty China, with the Chancellery (Executive), the Imperial Secretary (Impeachment, Petitioning), the Grand Commandant (Handles the military). Though in this case, the role of the single chancellor is replaced by a group of congressmen.
Would love to see more of vids like this where you take a goverment in a fictional setting and see the feasibility of it working in our current society for ex. The imperium of man. What do you guys think?
I'm going to grow old and retire before they release this game
Star senior citizen!
Wow what an original comment
Still waiting for that corsair tho. I likey that ship
You know, that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that.
@@roaringbeardragon4531 ikr? comedy gold /s
When naming my own faction, i like the word Empire, because it is such a strong word with such connotations that work incredibly well in 4E games
Ah yes, 4E: EXTERMINATE EXTERNINATE EXTERMINATE, and last but not least: EXTERMINATE
When describing the factions that are fucking incompetent on purpose, their whole strategy is attack when they are losing
What the hell was I rambling about
I agree for the most part. world building wise SC doesnt make much sense. However SOME of the fighters are designed in such a way that i think they are probably my fav out of any universe. The anvil hornet imo is one of the most realistic near future fighters that has been designed. Takes into account the space "object in motion stays in motion" thing. Etc, i just really like it. I wish more universes took into account actual physics when designing space ships.
I read that the SC Quantum drive is 0.25c at its fastest well the enterprise of startrek sub light thrusters run at 0.25c thats 25% of the speed of light so if SC fastest ships can only do the same speed then how can they travel faster than light ?
The best united human standards I have seen to date is of the empire from Asimov's novels.
Stylized rocketship on the background a stylized star.
Its never even shown depicted, juat described in text, and yet I guaruantee imagining we all picture something similar.
And that makes it perfect as an iconic representation.
Y'know I must say that "there's not enough technological advances" really isn't that much of a problem for me. I don't find it that unlikely that many of our technologies might stagnate to a certain degree
Even some of the most stagnant centuries in Western history saw significant technological advances, ESPECIALLY in military tech. Yet, I look at the UEE and see modern tech with a new skin thrown on top.
@@BlackBanditXX there's gonna come an end to it eventually tho
@BenjaminTheRogue That's why he said that it shouldn't be 900 years in the future but it should have been placed maybe 300 years or so.
@BenjaminTheRogue the tech doesn't have to be incomprehensible to seem sufficiently far in the future, it just has to be believably different, someone from a thousand years ago would still be able to in general comprehend what our technology does ("this looks like a metal bird, people sit inside, it flies"), even if not how.
SC doesn't even have a particularly strong reason for the stagnation, nothing like Elite's deep rooted fear of AI and automation, along with extremely decentralized nature holding advancements back.
At most they have a few centuries under a fascist regime, yet that exact kind of regime is most capable of technological progress due to its sheer disregard for certain kind of human wellbeing.
To say not enough tech advancement when there tech is millennium beyond what we actually think we'll be by this time, there are estimates we won't be able to even colonize other solar systems for centuries, let alone reach anywhere close to FTL
Ok so, a few things:
- First an overall disclaimer: SC's lore is still evolving. I'm responding to this video a year and change later and already halfway through it I see things that were not known 1 year ago, but are now. So perhaps a video like this is not wrong, but just premature. Yet another consequence of playing a game that's still in heavy development, I guess.
- The UEE calling itself an Empire actually makes perfect sense. The Messer regime - a series of Imperators who were effectively brutal, unchecked dictators - reigned over the UEE for 248 years, and the UEE is still dealing with the consequences from this nearly 150 years later. That is, the UEE actually WAS a classical Roman-style empire for a over hald of its existence and only recently began to transition into a democratic system. It was Ivan Messer, the first of the line and arguably worst of them all, who founded the UEE. So it was, in fact, founded as an Empire. Prior to the Messers, it was the United Planets of Earth. So actually, the UEE is called an Empire because it was created as one and for most of its history, it was one. The only strange thing about this is that the UEE hasn't changed its name back to the United Planets of Earth, which seems like an obvious PR move they should've made by now.
- Ivan Messer was elected "First Citizen" of the UPE before he transformed it into the UEE and restyled himself as Imperator. So, again, you can blame the Messers for the title of Imperator. And again, the only strange thing here is that they haven't changed it back 150ish years later.
- And yes, most people would be laughed out of the room for suddenly changing the title of their office. But if it was Ivan Messer with the firepower of Aegis Dynamics at his back, anyone dumb enough to laugh would soon find out how unchecked his power really was.
- The legislative structure is simplified because, again, of Ivan Messer. (I realize this sounds like a cop-out but it's not my fault you don't know about the outsized impact he had on SC's lore.) As he was a dictator in function, but wanted to maintain the facade of legitimacy, he made what could best be compared to a modern Russian-style Duma - nominally giving elected representatives the power to pass laws, but functionally enforcing or ignoring them at his whim under the guise of "we're at war with the aliens so I can do whatever I want to make that work."
- Likewise, the UEE Advocacy - which could be seen as a failing of the UEE to provide basic security services to its colonies, if one was to take a critical look at it - was born in response to the Vanduul war and the Navy's need to commit all its resources to that war, thus prohibiting the ability to properly defend its non-frontline systems from local pirates and such. It also makes for great gameplay as it gives the game lore cover to conscript players, who are all civilians, into what are otherwise military actions.
- I'll point out that in the Elite: Dangerous universe, Senators in the Empire perform both the role of legislator in the Empire's legislative body, and as a governor of their home system, meaning they are simultaneously members of the legislative branch on one level and executive branch on another, lower level. So it is not unprecedented for "senators" to do more than legislative duties. Beyond that, you are using the definition of the High Secretary's job and applying it to the Senators' job, which are not the same job. In the UEE, the High Secretary would be akin to the British Prime Minister, while the Imperator would be akin to the King or Queen. Neither would be akin to a member of the House of Commons, so of course they shouldn't be compared to such.
- The UEE senate IS only concerned with things that happen within its borders because, again, it was founded as an Empire by a dictator. Ivan Messer wanted to control all matters of war himself, as many dictators do. So the UEE senate was not envisioned to have any impact on anything at all (it was like the Duma, an illusion to keep the masses in line), but even the things it pretended to have an impact on did not include matters of war. Or foreign policy, which under Messer always meant war anyway.
- I'm going to stop harping on this because it's clear you just didn't know the history of the UEE when you made this. You didn't know about Messer, didn't know about the UPE, etc. Which is fine. I'm not even sure if that was published lore when you made this video, but it does nuke basically everything you've said about the government.
- As to the Nova...yeah, it's got issues. The problem is they also try to use it as an APC in addition to a tank. In the game, it's not that tall, that's just the concept art. It's about 1.5 times a human's height. But the shape doesn't make sense, and it wastes far too much everything - power, space, everything - on missiles, when doubling the amount of ammo for the main gun would make it far more useful. And frankly, it's largest problem is the ground clearance. The body of the tank - really, the APC compartment - sits less than 6 inches off the ground. You don't need a tree to stop it. A well placed rock would render it immobile (and often does in gameplay right now.)
- The floating city, Orison, is in the game now and yes, it's amazing. It is even designed with massive thrusters that fire at regular intervals to keep it aloft. You can see them do this in-game. It will murder your graphics card, though.
- In SC lore, RSI, the oldest of the current mega-corporations who invented the Quantum Drive, basically owns Manhattan. So the image you're seeing of NYC there has an old, uninspired, and uniform look because it was built by a single corporation over a period of a few decades, all over 600 years ago.
I'm going to quit now. To be fair, SC has some real lore problems. I think the one that infurates me the most of the slower-than-light lasers. In lore, they're plasma accelerators and the various weapon manufacturers just call them "lasers" as a marketing term. But then, why not just call them plasma accelerators? Does that really sound less cool than "laser" to anyone? Still, you've mostly picked a bunch of things that are really silly and/or your opinion is based on an incomplete understanding of the lore - some your fault, some CIG's - to take issue with. I hope one day after you've spent some quality time with the Galactapedia or even the wiki you'll do a new version of this episode of Incoming, because there IS plenty to take issue with. You just picked all the wrong things to find fault with.
He hates the game and decided to make yet another "hit" piece tearing it down to add to all the other "hit" pieces by Gamespot and the various gaming news organisations
@@tevarinvagabond1192. Source: Trust me, bro!
@@dragonbornexpress5650 What are you talking about? All you have to do is type "Star Citizen + gaming news" and you'll find the deluge of negative press the game has due to misconceptions. And, this video clearly shows that he himself dislikes Star Citizen as he isn't even bothering to be objective or actually do research on the lore...he spends a lot of time doing research on the lore of OTHER games yet he didn't even bother to do it for SC.
@@tevarinvagabond1192. Nice copium you're smoking; He even praised some parts of it like the aesthetic. Why are you lying to yourself?
@@dragonbornexpress5650 Copium? You apparently don't keep up with development, because they're literally progressing quite well and even put in a major tech pillar this year. You people that think the alpha is a scam are the ones huffing on copium, not me... xD You so desperately want the alpha to fail because you base your whole online personality on memes and trolling, but what good does that do for you? You spend your time berating people online for things you're ignorant of? Seriously?