The First Order - New Republic War Doesn't Work | Star Wars
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- 30 years after the fall of the Galactic Empire, the First Order struck from the Unknown Regions and launched an all-out assault on the New Republic. So why is it this conflict feels like a historical footnote rather than a major galactic event?
The Templin Institute. Investigating alternate worlds.
New episodes every week.
Other Divisions & Branches:
🔹 Patreon | / templininstitute
🔹 The Templin Commissary | shop.templin.i...
🔹 Twitch | / templininstitute
🔹 The Templin Archives | / @templinarchives
🔹 TH-cam Membership | / @templininstitute
🔹 Submit Your Episode Idea | ideas.templin....
Communications & Media:
🔹 Website | www.templin.in...
🔹 Discord | / discord
🔹 Facebook | / templininstitute
🔹 Twitter | / templinedu
🔹 Instagram | / templininstitute
🔹 Subreddit | / templininstitute
🔹 Mailing Address | Unit 144 - 919 Centre St SW Calgary, AB T2E 2P6
Background music "Building New Horizons" by Chris Haigh.
Ending music "Battle Forever" used under license from Shutterstock.com.
The First Order - New Republic War Reimagined premieres May 5th, 2022! th-cam.com/video/0Ai--LPeKQQ/w-d-xo.html
That will be good
Will the Jedi return after this reimagined scenario? I hope but let's find out
I couldn’t be more excited! I hope the Sequel Trilogy reimagined series continues forever!!!
@@alexhuynh1066 probably as its own Kind of warrior monks, intermingling with the regular forces.
Make a video on Alpha Legion from WarHammer 40k.
Honestly the new republic being neutered was the biggest disappoint to me. It made the efforts of Rebel Alliance mean nothing to just be wiped out in one go.
Exactly, it honestly made no sense.
This was the biggest annoyance to me that the New Republic had no military whatsoever and if they did have anything they just capitulated instantly
yep, everything in the sequels is pretty stupid
@@vice2versa Because the Prequels already showed up a Big Republic and that story didn't work. Because the idea of big organizations fighting in SW doesn't work, so the Sequels didn't want that mess. They just wanted a small group fighting a big one.
@@ShadowSonic2 whatever you say, sheep. You're literally the only one with such a piss-poor opinion.
"Somehow, Palpatine returned"
I think this still is the perfect summary of the sequels and why they do not work at all.
Star wars: Tell us, that we have a plan.
lucasflim: Get this franchise off my agenda.
Do we really expect an officer in the Resistances starfighter corps to know the intimate details of Sith resurrection.
@@byron2FZ I do expect the writers to know the intimate details of Sith resurrection, if they were going to pull that bullshit.
As the Nostalgia Critic said:
We had one Palpatine, yes. What about second Palpatines?
@@Ealsante good thing they did then?
It isn't explained in detail in the film because the movie isn't focused on Palpatine, but the lore books expand on what the film did describe about it and give a detailed explanation.
That comparison to WW2 Japan really helped me realize just how stupid the conflict in these movies are
It is even worse as Pearl Harbor wasn't even an proper victory for Japan. They just destroyed some ships and delayed operations there for a few months when if they hit our oil reserves they could have set us back years.
The quote might not actually be real the phrase "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with an unshakable resolve" is apt as that is what they did. They are misquito that got the attention of a giant. And really that is a good summary of the entire war as Japan wasn't even high on our priorities during the war. The Marine Corps was the last in line to get new equipment at the time after the Army and Navy and while they were flying around and annoying us for a years, we eventually swatted them and smashed them under our boot.
Yeah when he laid that out there I laughed really hard.
@@ScooterinAB That is a classic fallacy. Besides there is source material that is the screenplay you use.
@@emberfist8347 No, it's pointing out that you nor I have any idea what we're talking about. You're also very quick to dismiss what I'm saying, with proves why you're argument here is completely invalid.
You aren't a movie producer. You aren't a screenwriter. You're just some keyboard warrior who's shitting on everything they come across because there are no perceived consequences. You are acting on cognitive bias and projecting your own opinion onto a situation and presenting it as fact.
So until you present your screenplay, what you say is your and only your opinion, and your criticism is baseless because you are using your opinion as fact. And if you don't like what Disney is "doing" to Star Wars, then don't watch their movies. No one is holding a gun to your head.
Lastly, when you spend $4 billion on something, you can decide how you use it. Until you come up with a screenplay proving that you're a better writer than those who produced these films, or you come up with $4 billion, I do not care what you think.
Happy? Or are you just going to dismiss this too?
@Layne Staley I believe in the "put up or shut up" code. You don't have to be a pilot to see a plane crash, but you do have to be one if you're going around saying you could have flown the plane better.
Again, until I see your screenplay, all this is is noise from an entitled boob who thinks they're special.
I like how you went with ..."how strange the First Order-New Republic War is."
You were really constrained to make this as educational as possible and resisted with every fiber of your being to call it "fucking stupid"
that's what made it soooo good to watch!
him thinking that Disney Star Wars is superior to the EU helped a bit with that.
“I don’t know how we got here, I don’t really know what the objectives are, I don’t know what this is supposed to achieve, and I don’t understand why events played out the way they did.” Perfect summary of the sequel trilogy.
The Conscript's Cry
"It's Art it's not supposed to make sense plebs! it's just supposed to push our political agenda in flashy fast-paced hypnotic fashion! You are not supposed to analyze it for it's flaws, just be good little plebs and parrot the views."
~Hellywood and KK
Palpatine: They summoned me back for this?
Hahaha😂😂😂 all three are just nonsensical hahaha
That reminds me of a "drama" that I had once recorded on a cassette tape when I was 8 years old. The characters suddenly had to jump into warplanes and fight. "We're at war!" "With who?" "I dunno!"
There's also the fact that the new Star Destroyers being offered by the Sith Eternal each have a MAJOR design flaw. While they are each equipped with a cannon capable of destroying a planet, these cannons don't seem to have any armor whatsoever and if they are destroyed the entire Star Destroyer is destroyed with it.
The Sith Eternal took one of the most formidable ships ever put into service and turned it into a glass cannon that can be destroyed by a single fighter without any heavy weapons.
Second flaw: They are just ISD's with a swelling disorder and a giant laser p3n1s.
Third flaw: they are somehow incapable of finding "up" with both hands.
...should'a just built more harrowers...
Its like the f100 shtfortress scaled up to a capital ship
I actually laughed when I saw all those Star Destroyers at Exegol.
@@Gerishnakov When I heard Exegol in the theater, my thoughts immediately went to, "Do not take Exegol if you are allergic to Exegol of other NSAID's. Side effect may include..."
According to Disney it’s not the “new republic war “ it is the rebel vs empire war 2 electric boogaloo
AKA resistance vs first order
I do not remember which youtuber said that, but:
The first order fight against present government..so they are technically rebels. So its rebels fighting different rebels.
I can see we’re you are coming. But one thing that does not make sense is the naming of the resistance as the resistance was set up before the war so it does not make sense to call it the resistance TBF
its rebs vs imps but 10x worse. The Resistance is a bunch of annoying grubs while the first order were a bunch of screaming lunatic
@@Bogdan221192 the rebels are fighting rebels who no longer became rebels after they blew up 5 planets only to become rebels again a year later lol
@@Bogdan221192
It's Waco versus the Glowies :D
When the DS-1 Death Star was destroyed by the Rebel Alliance, that forever altered the galaxy perspective of the Empire and tragectory of the Galactic Civil War, even if the former still had numerical advantage. It was definitive proof that the Emperor was capable and willing to commit indiscriminate extermination by destroying Alderaan and that's not even counting subsequent discoveries like the destruction of Jedha & Scarif as well as the sterilization of the Geonosis to hide the weapon's construction. It not only proved to the galaxy at large WHY they needed to take action against the regime but it also proved that they had the power to make a difference despite seemingly impossible odds.
You'd think that the destruction of Starkiller Base after it obliterated the Hosnian System, killing potentially trillions, as well as the Supreme Leader's Mega Star-Destroyer, the Supremacy, being cleaved in half by a single ship light-speed ramming it, these events would be a colossal wake-up slap that the galaxy need to rise up against an unquestionably evil force but it doesn't. Instead, they have to wait until an old smuggler turned general reminds them to a year later.
Yep. Welcome to Disney :)
That's one of the things that really bugs me about TLJ. It manages to be both horrifically bleak in the fact that literally nobody shows up to help the Resistance, _and_ have an inspiring speech by Luke about how things are actually not that bad and the Resistance (or I guess Rebellion, now) is being reborn and such. But the Resistance numbers about as many people as they can cram into one YT-1300, versus the First Order that apparently reigns across the galaxy, and nobody else is willing to stand up to them.
Maybe the first order is better at covering up their blunders than we thought? I mean something as big as starkiller or the supremacy blowing up is bound to get leaked.
The destruction of Alderaan crippled the galaxy with fear, no-one dared resist and promptly submitted in totality. Rebel factions surrendered, political parties that spoke against the Empire's methods shut up, with a single action the Empire and subjugated the galaxy. But then, the Death Star was destroyed and all that fear suddenly turned to anger, causing the Rebel's resources, recruits and supporters to grow ten fold almost overnight. Suddenly, the Empire realized that the small and scattered annoyance had become a very real threat and they found themselves embroiled in a full scale civil war.
That's the feel the OT gave me. I really wanted Snoke to mention something like that, comment on how precarious their position had become with the destruction of Starkiller base. Instead, they...won? No-one dares stand up and do anything? I don't care how big your armada is, or how many legions of troops you have, that's bs.
I refuse to accept that light speed ramming is a thing.
Narratively, many portions of this war could be describe with "...and then:" rather than "...leading to:"
This is a terrific weakness.
When the Rebel Alliance destroys the first Death Star, you can predict that the Empire will begin hunting them more aggressively, and they do; they hunt for, then attack Hoth, followed by small teams commanded by important Imperial members tracking down Rebel leadership elements in an attempt to capture or kill them after they escaped. The Empire's actions make sense. They're engaging in Counter-Insurgency warfare (COIN).
Meanwhile, the Resistance destroys yet another big, round planet-killer, which the First Order incorporated no lessons from previous attempts into, and the First Order begins hunting them... With a massive mobile capital that can't seemingly outrun their ships? And some members of the Resistance have a largely random diversion to a casino during the days-long ordeal? What the hell is even happening...
They don't even TRY to use smaller, faster ships to outrun them after a single fighter attack on the fleeing ships isn't totally successful, giving the Resistance ample time to scrounge together an admittedly dismal rescue attempt which somehow still manages to work.
Nothing in the new trilogy exists for the sake of consistency; and certainly not between the movies as they each struggle to invalidate each other. They serve only to frame set pieces which exist in isolation, and do little if anything to work together and elevate the experience as a whole.
Almost nothing is there because it makes sense, they're there because a previous movie did it. Or did the opposite - which is just a photo negative of the same thing.
"And then" writing really does seem to be a plague of media. It doesn't rear it's head often but when it does and it's a more mainstream property, nothing is left but ash by the end. Obligatory Game of Thrones gesturing here.
@@gratuitouslurking8610 Game of Thornes is exactly what came to my mind.
Things stopped being "because" of other things, and flowing naturally - and started happening because a lazy writer needed them to happen for the story to work.
I think it really speaks to the lack of a plan or vision for the universe when Disney began the Sequel Trilogy. You can't just craft a story by committee and make it up as you go along.
The fact that the 5 planets destroyed is never brought again bothers me a lot. Why do it, something so massive, if nothing was to come from it?
They did it because they wanted a Death Star ‘but cooler’. They wanted to hold it up and say “see? Our death star is cooler ‘cause it can destroy *five* planets at the same time!”
Imagine if we got a scene where Lando was trying to convince people why they should fight the first order, and to convince them, he takes them to the 'Hosnian Graveyard'.
That would be a strong emotional scene and link up to why so many people were willing to fight.
Agreed on most points except for one: all nation-states and powers with a naval presence, regardless of how many elements and front deployments, will refer to these forces as "fleet" in singular on the whole, and specify "task forces" or "fleets" on the tactical organization level. Starfleet, for example, isn't just one "fleet", but its name is singular, composed of various squadrons on specific sectors which can move around as "fleets". A navy has a fleet composed of "fleets", if you will. The First Order was referring to the New Republic Fleet in that way, as well as that the main of its fleet within their Fleet (bear with me!) was on the Hosnian system. Why is it easy to confuse all of this? Well... bad writing, honestly.
I thing the point is, if the first order destroyed the fleet, who cares, there are many others out there.
But if the first order destroyed the Fleet, how come they were all bunched up on a single planet/in a single system ?
In either case, something is not right.
I may be looking a little to deep into this.
Except that this was never clarified. If there were fleets fighting the First Order, why didn't they show up at the Resistance's call to arms?
If they decided to kowtow to the Order, what changed their minds and caused them to commit to the Battle of Exogol?
If they were of dubious loyalty, why wasn't the First Order watching them? What better way to bolster your fleet than commandeer vessels from surrendered governments?
Nothing makes sense. On any level. It's like it was written by people without knowledge of history, tactics, or strategy.
Oh wait.
Exactly, i do not know the naval breakdown, but in the US Army, four divisions maka a corps and four corps (marines only have one corps) make an army. The US Army is comprised of multiple armies.
@@boomstick7506 I'm not navy, but I think they are broken down by area. For example the British had the Home, Mediterranean, Pacific and Eastern fleets in 1945. Could be broken down by type if ship (Royal Navy Battle Cruiser fleet in WWI)
This seams mostly based on geography, as pre-WW1 Russia had several fleets despite being much less of a naval power than Germany, which only had one (that I could find, perhaps a Costal fleet to contrast the High Seas Fleet).
@@shawngillogly6873 If Lando God-Damn Calarrissian (sp?) Showed up on your doorstep and said "hey want to fight the first order", would you be able to say no?
I admire your ability to rationally discuss what can’t be analysed in any way, essentially because there’s nothing to analyse: the writing of these films is so amazingly poor that it hurts. The prequels might have had many flaws, but the overall grandiosity of the story kinda made up for it; the sequels, instead… well, it’s several hours of fancy lasers, explosions and empty characters. It’s such a pity that so much money went into them.
The Prequels had the flaw of being rough drafts that weren't challenged or hammered into proper scripts. The sequels were hack improvisation, bloated, and didn't provide the time or attention to even tell a story. The sequels just threw random thoughts at the wall and tried to see what would stick. Leaving us the viewer without any coherency or connectivity between any of the scenes whatsoever.
@@Fafnd two words MYSTERY BOX
@@SgtKaneGunlock which is great for say a mystery genre film. Unfortunately Star Wars is an action adventure with sprinkles of drama and romance. Round peg meets square hole situation that a competent storyteller or director would have avoided.
I think the problem with the prequels is George Lucas is terrible at characters and dialogue, and he was trying to cram a massive story into 3 movies. Really the prequels could've been 5 movies or a TV series.
Hell the 2003 Clone Wars miniseries helped flesh out Anakin's development and relationships with Padme and Obi-Wan, cause there just wasn't enough time.
@@Fafnd rather than rough draft I think it was too big.
An ancient conspiracy plots the downfall of a democratic republic via false flags attacks and manipulation of the legal process in order to genocide a monastic order of knights charged with protecting the same republic.
Meanwhile the chosen one of a prophecy is found and said conspiracy plays upon the chosen ones fears to manipulate and corrupt into the conspiracy into one of the greatest villains of all time.
That's something for for a multi episode TV series, really hard for a trilogy. Maybe Steven Spielberg or another director could've pulled it off but no one wanted to take George's baby.
Hell like I said in my other comment the prequels was really 5 films; 1-3 and both seasons of 2003 Clone Wars.
A couple of points:
-in Hux's speech, "remaining systems" may refer to everything not yet destroyed, i.e. all star systems other than the Hosnian system, rather than being in reference to conquered systems
-another possible explanation for the First Order dreadnought attacking D'Qar's base before the ship is if the First Order expected there to be powerful anti-orbital weapons systems on the ground that could attack the First Order fleet. The Resistance ships in orbit were clearly not a major threat, but it is possible that D'Qar might secretly have a weapon similar to the ion cannon which singlehandedly won the battle of Hoth (if not for that ion cannon, the rebellion would've been destroyed there and then)
-the reason why the whole galaxy showed up at Exegol is clearly Lando. Apparently he is VERY charismatic.
I'd argue the Clone Wars had the best and most comprehensive background detail (theaters, stories, goals, and outcomes) but with a relatively weak cassus belli (cause for war) while the Galactic Civil War had the best cassus belli (the Empire is evil and run by a malevolent wizard) but little in the way of canon background detail.
The FO v Resistance War has no background detail and no cassus belli.
Gosh, what I would do for a Galactic Civil War animated series. Expanding and exploring the years between episodes of the OT. I know that has been done by comics from both the old and new EU, but seeing is believing.
@@Duskof81 ikr. I really want to see more of Luke's journey since basically everything since the original trilogy has tried to destroy him as a character.
@@Duskof81 Ever read Splinter of the Mind's Eye? Or try Timothy Zahn's Hand of the Emperor novels. He gave up when the Yuuzhan Vong war thing started to happen and went back to flesh out parts that he liked. I didn't much like the YV war either, so his novels were a lot of fun.
The minute I saw that cinematically breathtaking shot of that hyperspace collision I was like "great, so they just completely destroyed all logic in this universe". It just dumpstered my suspension of disbelief immediately.
"The First Order, nothing more than a cheap joke. A poor copy of the Empire, that spent 30 years preparing for a war that they pretty much lost immediately." Yep, that just about sums up the entire sequel trilogy in one brief statement. I've seen crappy 5k-word fanfictions written by grade-schoolers that were better then the pile of bantha shite that is the new cannon. Just how bad is it? That sparklepire garbage TWILIGHT is better then eps 7-9. That's how bad it is. =^x^=
Agreed. As bad as Twilight was, at least it had a plot that made sense in that world.
@@trevynlane8094 internal consistency goes a long way!
The first order destroyed an entire star system.
Yup - the writers were lazy and relied on brand recognition instead of a solid story to draw an audience: the end result was a garbage pile of a trilogy that plays out like a bad fanfic rather than something crafted by professionals…
@@tiffanywyatt5137 and? Destroying one system in a galaxy with thousands of systems means very little, especially if the system isn't the home system of any sapient species. All it does is stiffen resistance, not lessen it.
"No logical sequence of events to get from point A to B"
Abrams' "writing" perfectly summed up.
A 25 minute recap of just how horrifically bad the writing and directing of the sequel trilogy was. If you drill down, even the individual characters' stories really possess no more coherence than the larger war they are thrown into. Things happen merely to setup visuals onscreen. Unlike the OT and the prequels, there is no surrounding narrative. We never actually even see the New Republic in any form except for the moment of Hosnian Prime's destruction. So we have no sense of what is stake. Likewise, the First Order appears to be ideological, but we don't get told what that ideology really is besides blowing things up. The incredibly condensed timeline, with TFA and TLJ literally occurring within the space of just *two days* only creates even more problems. Was Poe making irrational decisions because he had only just escaped from being captured and tortured, only to then have to go into battle, *twice!?* When did he even get to sleep? Was he pumped full of stimulants? Leia apparently found time to change outfits several times within the same period. "Admiral" Holdo couldn't even be bothered to change out of her cocktail dress and into a uniform to lead a total rout of her surviving forces, much less actually inform her personnel what the plan was? RoS then skips ahead, but it's really just a bunch of disjointed action sequences that prove that the previous two movies were utterly pointless. Whereas in TLJ Leia couldn't even get anybody in the galaxy to answer the comm when she was begging for her peoples' lives, in RoS Lando is apparently able to make a few calls and summon *every available warship in the galaxy!* Says a lot about who had more likes on Forcebook I guess. Meanwhile, Palpatine is pretty much just there, creepy chanting choir and all, to chew on the scenery and throw Force Lightning around randomly. It was all a mess. There was *no* narrative, just a bunch of vignettes.
I’d like to see a Battlestar Galactica-like series set in the Star Wars universe about the New Republic fleet scrambling to fight back against the First Order.
If this conflict is lacking a name, then I suggest "War of Mutual Incompetence" as I think it is very fitting.
You put far more thought into this in under a year than Disney has since they purchased Lucasfilm.
Rian Johnson/JJ Abrams: I want to see this scene here.
Writer(s): But it doesn't make sense here.
Rian Johnson/JJ Abrams: *I WANT TO SEE THIS SCENE HERE.*
Everyone else: (Facepalm)
Also of important note, if there are free worlds and if they have republic fleets or planetary defense forces or hell even random bands of pirates or militias across the galaxy are out there, wouldn't they be actively fighting the first order? Defending their respective planets or be under siege doing so? When Lando made that call, that many ships could somehow afford to leave their systems, defensive formations and somehow from across the galaxy find their way to exegol, without alerting or getting intercepted by the first order that allegedly controls much of the galaxy already??? Wouldn't that mean every single free world would be left open and vulnerable as the Resistance, Remnants of the New Republic Navy as well as the whoever else came to exegol put all their forces into a single battle? And them somehow they still were able to conduct a galaxy wide insurrection that by and large overthrew the first order everywhere even tho the vast majority if not all of ships were in exegol?
And on the part of the first order wouldn't they notice a sudden large movement of ships across the galaxy and move to intercept??? Wouldn't they attack them en route or the planets they left undefeated when they went to exegol to fight.
I swear the deployment of forces in this war makes absolutely zero sense, from a galaxy wide republic navy just evaporating over night, to first order ships being across the galaxy in a day to the entire galaxy moving to exegol in basically no time ignoring the consequences of leaving the entire galaxy front open (and that's even if we can call it a front because I don't know what the fuck is going on in this war)
One of the biggest sins of the 'sequels' is that it spits in the face of the New Republic, and by extinction the legacy of every hero and sacrifice in the first 6 films.
I wrote a small fanfiction about how at least TFA could have been written better a year after it came out. Rey grew up on the ruins of Coruscant. The Empire conducted a scorched earth campaign on the core and inner rim as they were driven out of those worlds. The New Republic has been working to rebuild industry on a galactic scale, and has finally reclaimed a planet to its pre-devastation glory: Corellia.
The First Order, far from having a planet killing ball, instead is an insurgency that engages mostly in raids and massacres on the poorly defended worlds near their space. They happen upon a game changing substance however; a compound that becomes incredibly explosive when it decelerates from hyperspace.
The First Order gathers old Star Destroyers which survived the Battle of Endor. These ships, and their aging commanders, would redeem themselves for failing to destroy the Rebellion and protect the Emperor. One takes off into hyperspace towards Corellia, where the New Republic government has chosen as their new capital and where a celebration of the successful reclamation was taking place.
On the bridge, an elderly Rae Sloane laments that this isn't a redemption, it is a purge of the Old Guard who had constantly urged restraint to the younger and more zealous leadership like Hux. She looked at the picture of a young man, her only remaining family who she had hidden in the stormtrooper corps where he was a mask and a number instead of a Sloane. She is told that they would exit hyperspace in 10 seconds. Rae stood to accept her fate. The blue panorama of hyperspace turning into the streaks of light then the surface of a planet filling the bridge window.
On Corellia, the announcement of the rebirth of the planet had just been made. Two conspicuously empty seats are those of Senator and retired General Solo. The Star Destroyer appears above the assembly and immediately emits an unnatural and blinding light. An explosion large enough to crack the planet to its core occurs. A molten and fragmented blob is all that remains of one of the oldest inhabited worlds in the galaxy.
I generally agree with you. The movies don't make a good picture of the overall war and especially the Last Jedi made a huge mess out of it. Not only with the war's speed - conquering the galaxy within a day - but also because it made the war too localized and not feel like a galaxy wide war.
However the books provide some background info which has to be kept in mind.
The Galactic Republic - the one that Palpatine toppled - wasn't exactly a unified country but more like something between the EU and UNO. Palpatine's Empire tried to turn it into a unified state but once it was defetead, there was huge backlash against the unification so the New Republic (NR) was incredibly libertarian that it had a very small central government and fleet and the various systems were supposed to police themselves.
Since the First Order (FO) was a threat, the NR put the fleet around the capital to prevent it from being attacked but they didn't know about Starkiller Base which destroyed not only it but also the central government (chancellor, senate etc.). And the systems' fleets were good at fighting pirates but not enough against something like the FO which with the combination of the shock factor is why they folded.
Overall the war would've made much more sense if the New Republic was just severely damaged and not destroyed. The Resistance would've organized it to fight the FO in a big war. The FO would be stuck - also because of Kylo Ren's incompetent leadership since he's a warrior and not a strategist - and the Sith would come to help them. The Battle of Exegol would be then FO and the Sith against the NR/Resistance fleet which would then be reinforced by the fleet of others (random ships, smugglers, corporations...) to get rid of the FO/Sith. Overall it wouldn't overhaul the movies and it would make the war much more realistic.
Anyway I'm looking forward to your video.
First shouldn't need supplemental material and secont both the Old Rpeublic and New Republic would have to be centralized to some degree in order to work as governments. And the New Republic shouldn't make the same mistakes as the Old when the founder lived through the Old Republic and should know what mistakes to avoid.
8:24 I don’t think they understood what the terms “resistance” and “rebellion” means.
17:38 First Order, use a turbolaser and blast the forces outside the door. Hoth had a shield generator, what’s the excuse here? Oh right, spectacle.
I sense JJ Abram's hand in this. The handling of the conflict is similarly non-sensical as the logistics of Star Trek: Into Darkness, where starships are able to jump to and from Klingon and human capital worlds without any defence measures kicking in whatsoever. Those are species homeworlds, for crying out loud. I mean, what!?
I agree but its worst that I think it was implied (or said) that Kahn used a transporter from earth to Klingon home world. I could be wrong but I not going to watch ST: Into Dumbness again. JJ just cares about getting the the 'cool' visual / 'awesome' fight scene as fast as possible.
Aw yes a sequel to some of my favorite content of yours, really happy to see you guys continue this series!
LOVE THIS VIDEO! I knew something was wrong the TFA when the First Order was around but somehow we have both a Republic and a Resistance and no explanation as to why. Also when a few planets blew up and we didn’t even know their names
The biggest problem with the sequel trilogy is that context was avoided like the plague. Perhaps because the big wigs were afraid that meetings and/or slow moments would’ve turned people off and reminded them of the prequels, but if you watch JJ Abrams Star Trek movies you see a lot of similarities with his Star Wars movies. It’s all high action, high emotion, swelling music, zippy one-liners, but no context.
And the comics/books calling the Republic weak and ineffective after TFA honestly felt like retroactive victim-blaming, and made it felt like the Rebellion was all for nothing. Those same books also framed the First Order as a hyper-efficient military junta, which tbh is laughably pathetic. No group preferring security over freedom would look at The First Order and be like “yeah this reminds me of when I felt safe when the Empire was in power”
In the end, it was all about member-berries. They wanted to recapture the magic without any actual deeper meaning to a greater story about…something. This trilogy didn’t do anything new, and when they tried in TLJ we got Rise of Skywalker
After watching The Force Awakens, I can remember sitting there thinking "So wait, Leia is a rogue politician waging a proxy war with a private army against a presumably sovereign government?"
isn't current dayism great?
The sequel trilogy is a complete joke of not only a story telling, but also world building.
There was a fanwank before anything about VII was known, where the new threat was the Hutt Cartel, lead by a force sensitive Hutt (just because they’re immune to mind tricks doesn’t mean they’re force blind).
THAT would have been better than what we got.
George had a ban on force senesitive Hutts as it doesn't work. They can't really fight normally let alone do Jedi stunts.
I love hearing your thoughts on the sequel trilogy 😊
Hux is such a caricature. he may as well just stand there screaming in his weird accent the word "Nein" over and over again.
Given the lack of information, as well as the lack of quality to the movies, this becomes the Dark Age of A Galaxy Far Far Away.
What exactly is the Resistance resisting? If the New Republic is this great democratic government then why is there a resistance faction? Do they exist solely to resist the First Order which is a fringe fascist group left over from the Empire? If that’s the case then why doesn’t the Republic build a large fleet and then just roll them over? I never realized how nonsensical this new conflict it.
From what I have read the resistance was made solely made to oppose the first order, the reason the new republic didn't just send the fleet in was because 1. they didn't consider them a threat due to their small size and 2. because the first order had double agents among their government who were used to make sure the republic was too divided to get anything done.
Because the NR is totally useless lol and Democracy doesn't work. Apparently. They couldn't agree on anything.
Isn't that the message the movies wanted to send? That you've got a choice between a merciless Fascist Empire or a weak kneed Democracy, and that's why war will never end!
I'd say there is even a secret message-that people should be trusted to rule themselves, being good is its own reward, and big government is always bad, ala Firefly. But somehow I think even the writers don't totally comprehend that anymore and have to shoehorn in tired references to politics in the real world.
Tbh, the whole sequel trilogy was a mess due to Abrams and Johnson doing their damndest to erase/retcon/invalidate what the other had done. I'm sure that if one of them had made all 3 movies it would've made a lot more sense.
Great video! Really highlights the absolute insanity that this story was. You also mentioned the weird obsession with "the resistance," although I'd argue that it's not as weird as it seems.
They make it pretty clear in the movie that the First Order was meant to be modeled after WW2 Germany. Part of WW2 Germany's ideology was utterly insane paranoia that the entire world was led by a secret organization of Jews and communists. Basically, a nonexistent "evil strawman/bogeyman" they could blame anything on, or accuse anyone of being a part of. Thus, any annexations or invasions were described as "liberations" from this imaginary group. Most notably, this crazy theory was at the center of the "stab in the back" myth for why Germany lost WW1. The myth claimed that Germany didn't lose on the battlefield (even though they quite clearly did), but rather got "stabbed in the back" by this evil Kabal both within Germany and outside of it.
The writers might have been trying to nod to this when they had him focus so much on the Resistance. Maybe the First Order has their own kind of propaganda claiming the New Republic is actually being controlled by this strange paramilitary group set on destroying the First Order. The resistance is simultaneously about to lose, but also everywhere, including your neighbors and government. Although, if they are trying to go for that angle, it does raise some problems. Most notably, the Resistance is both a group that existed(not just a fever dream), a volunteer force(you got the choice), and an actual threat to the First Order, meaning the First Order had a reason to oppose and fight the Resistance. In real life, there was no "secret conspiracy," meaning there was no threat, and this paranoia caused the mass murder of millions of innocent people, who had no choice in the matter.
This is all giving a lot of credit to the writers, though. It could have also just as easily been slipped in because they didn't want to repeat "New Republic" too much in the speech. I guess we will never know, although if the parallel was intentional, it was pretty neat (if a bit problematic with it's implications).
Well said, through and through. I hadn't really understood why the sequel trilogy never stuck with me the way the other movies did.
To be honest, I think there was a nearly perfect script for that war at hand - they should just have modified the Thrawn-trilogy. Of course it would be impossible to use that one by one since it was centred around the original chars, but if they had changed that but kept a lot of other elements I think it would have been a much better story. A Imperial Remnant who fights not by super weapons, dark side or raw firepower, but with superior tactic, aggility and information. Lead by a commander who is neither a emo cryboy like Kylo, nor a sad joke like Hux and has more staying power than Snoke.
they could have easily adapted the Thrawn Trilogy into the 'next' generation of Star Wars, with limited changes. Alas, they chose to be 'original' (by copying 'A new Hope' for their first film and making a complete mess with the two that followed...)
I know it's kind of obvious and meta, but it seems like the motives for the First Order were just "bad guys" because "bad guys". There was no coherent direction and that is why there is no explanation for *anything*. Even a shallow attempt at crafting a tangible backstory and reason for the First Order to exist would do better. I think there is a lot that could be taken from the Second Galactic Civil War from the Legends novels.
Take some core worlds that were legitimately better off under the Empire that would like to see it come back. Maybe have Corellia be one of those worlds and explain tension between Han and Kylo through that (being Corellian was a big part of Han's Legends identity). Kuat would be one of those worlds as well and explains why Star Destroyers are still in production for the reemerging Empire.
The New Republic could be focusing on diplomacy with these worlds instead of acknowledging the obvious brewing conflict in front of them. Leia should be part of that (her history is that of a diplomat, Han should be the one wanting to run off to join the Resistance). Failed negotiations for years and then some sort of political tipping point, like the capital of the Republic being moved away from Coruscant to somewhere like Hosnian Prime, then sparks the first open conflict.
I personally feel like a Galaxy Gun-style superweapon would have been better, but we'll stick with Starkiller Base. The First Order destroys the new Capital of the Republic and is actually met with cheers from many core worlds. The Resistance destroys the base, but the First Order manages to gain a massive surge in public support. Now they are able to ramp up an extreme offensive against a Republic on the back-foot and an under-funded paramilitary group (these two factions should not be officially connected from the beginning).
In a similar time frame to the original trilogy, *years* pass and we get to see how the landscape of the war has changed during the evacuation early in Ep. 8. There is no more Resistance, they are fully incorporated into the New Republic in an overt war with the Imperial Remnant, I mean the First Order. I'm not entirely sure where it goes from here, but I feel like this would be a much more "Star Wars-y" sequel setup than what we got.
"Can we do it better?" he asks, of course he can. Looking forward to it.
In the words of darth australian
'As long as there's two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead!'
-Sniper
Guess this extends to the whole galaxy. Or much like a young adult in puberty despite being in their 20s, maybe we underestimated their power
The Force is strong with the Institute. We will watch your premiere with great interest!
This really makes it seem like the New Republic and First Order are just minor factions in their galaxy, fighting over a phony "rulership over the galaxy" that nobody else actually cares about. Like the late White Russian army against various anarchist factions: they didn't have any realistic claim to control the country, but they tried anyways. The rest of the galaxy knows their own star system will be self-ruled regardless of who claims to rule the empire, so they just sit back and "collaborate" with whichever side happens to have a fleet in the area. The battle of Exagol is just the tiniest percentage of the galaxy that was stirred up by Republic Propaganda into forming their own paramilitary groups. Just a drop in the bucket compared to the countless militaries that the independent systems have.
I was watching Attack on Titan's Erwin's speech when I saw this on my recommendation and the first thing in my head was "Rage, my fellow OG trilogy fans! Rage, my fellow prequel fans! Rage, my fellow Star Wars fans!" Because how the hell was writing even approved. Just mindboggling. Thank you, Templin Institute for putting it all tgt.
Not only did nothing that happened in TLJ or ROS matter, but none of it made internal coherent sense, let alone sense in the wider context of the world it was supposedly set in. The only reason TFA made some sense was that they couched it firmly in the framework of the plot of A New Hope, which had the distinct benefit of not making the writers have to think very much.
I feel like the best way I understood it never made sense was when I was playing battlefront 2. When you play in the other 2 eras you feel like you’re at a certain battle. While in the sequel trilogy you’re at a place where the main characters were at with a fight simulated on top
I was just rewatching the older video about how the new republic doesn’t work yesterday
Those resistance bombers troubled me from the beginning, how can such ineffective things ever be used in more than 2 or 3 battles? Suicide bombers they are! Almost non existent defense, requires than you send dozens, escorted, against even a star destroyer who had all of its surface cannons removed, just so one can almost not make it. Who could you get to sign their life away and fly those? Maybe if you round up all your criminals and promise them freedom. Especially when the resistance is going extinct and every life lose needs to have significant meaning why would you do that?
14:32 Snoke is me rushing Victory Points in HoI4
The World War 2 comparison cracked me up
When most franchises get into a jam like this they do one of two things.
1. Die
2. Restart the timeline and start over
Unfortunately star wars is too big to do either of these. It makes butt-loads of money so it will never die, and restarting the timeline would be met with outrage from the community. While some would rejoice, most people would feel like they had been cheated, as if disney had taken their three movie tickets, farted on them, and then asked them to buy three more movie tickets in order to see the REAL story.
Well at this point they seem to focus on 3: pretend it doesn't exist and shell out tons of tv shows until Star Wars makes you want to throw up
"The enemy is a scattered and weak, a pale shadow of its former power. So how is it that our situation is so much worse than last time?
- Saruman of Many Devices, paraphrased
pretty sure Hux was referring to all new Republic systems, as in after we use this weapon on 1, the rest will surrender. It's the same idea behind the mass bombings in ww 2. I don't think it implies anything about if the First Order has already conquered anything
For me the whole war with the first order felt more like a small scale skirmish in some middle eastern country between two insurgent factions than some great world war.
I honestly thought you were going to ramp up the absurdity at the end by adding "the last metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace"
Honestly I don't know what I hate more, the fact that nothing in the sequels makes any sense or the fact it completely disregards Gorge Lucas's storyline of Anakin being the chosen one. No some Scavenger nobody knows until now and is somehow related to old man on steroids was actually the chosen one all along.
I feel like a lot of these things will be given more context and put in a better light as time goes on. A lot of these same problems existed with the Clone Wars, you said so yourself but nearly two decades of expansion, explanation and damn good writing on dozens of parts has thrown the whole prequel era into a much sharper relief. Now we have to wait for that to be done with the sequels. Is that a GOOD thing? No, I wish they'd written it correctly the first time but it WILL get better from here because they did it once already.
There isn't really a way to fix this conflict with expanded material which is why Disney isn't even trying.
I mean in the clone wars there was time, but the sequel are so close together that last Jedi is immediately right after force awakens and there was only a year difference to the next and all the expanded material have been mostly filled out
So, we have with a series of random events that "just sort of happen". Nothing makes sense because it does not have to. It is the definition of "The Rule of Cool": whatever it is, does not have to make sense or be critically logical or even satisfying of audience curiosity or expectations (i.e. good) as long as it is COOL. "Cool" being that intangible quality of a thing that is understood to be appealing, regardless of any other qualities involved.
Imagine if instead of the emperor coming back with ships from nowhere it was thrawn and the writers knew how wars worked
It is also sad that they didn’t get the war right in Star Wars
Literally... Three movies where it's an ACTUAL war between Imperial Remnants and the new republic?
Some side quests for the heroes and villains to try and uncover some mac-guff ins that the villains would use to win but the heroes will use to grow as people and become more in tune with the force? All while we get scenes of actual fleet battles against one another...
Why couldn't we have that instead of the ''Ha ha! Rey's ACTUALLY the super Jedi that'll fix everything and can do ALL the things because she's super Jedi!'' -.-
Didn't expect to hear about the flying tigers in this video about star wars, cool
The Sequel Trilogy feels a lot like the Bayformers movies. In that, the story/plot's only purpose was to get from one scene to the next. If you take Aftermath, Alphabet Squadron, Bloodline, and Battlefront II, you sort of get a sense of what Palpatine's post-war plan was.
For something like the Resistance to work, you needed something akin to a Cold War. Where you have two sides in an effective stalemate. The problem is the sides aren't really defined very well.
I still maintain the opinion that the battle of Crayt should have ended with the distress call being answered by Imperial Remnants. It would have been a really cool way to show that the Empire was so vast that various parts of it are still independent of the Republic but NOT in favor of the First Order becoming a new Empire. It also would have been a really cool scene to see the FO fleet over the planet while the distress signal is going and then to see more ISD's jump in, making the audience think that no one is coming and that things are only getting worse. Then have those ISD's open fire on the FO fleet.
IDK I'm not a writer.
"it's difficult to imagine how this could have any worse for them" ...... Russia: "hold my beer"
My thoughts: Instead of being lazy, cheap, and unimaginative, why not read "Heir to The Empire" and adapt the story into an Episode, that way fans of the franchise will come flooding in and good faith will be strengthen and the story's logic wouldn't have so many plot holes. I like what the Templin Institute is doing, especially when you're dissecting the setting of these films and pointing out the incompetent writing. I hope you do more Reimagine series, because I cannot overstate how awesome you guys are at improving Star Wars.
You forgot how during the battle on discount Hoth, everyone was depressed because reinforcements didn't show up within 30 seconds of sending out the distress signal. Star Wars doesn't go that in depth into logistics but I imagine it still takes time to arm and supply a fleet for a rescue mission. I felt that was a summary of the whole trilogy: it doesn't make sense, but it emotionally resonates so you'll buy merch and come back for the next dumpster fire of a movie.
It is simple. When Disney took over, Story LIne, Plot, and details didn't mean anything to these people. IMHO, Episode 7, 8 & 9 were attempted Episode 4, 5 & 6 reboots. Is this where we need a temporal reboot to remove this part of the Star Wars TimeLine from the Space/Time Continuum? I would say, Hell Yes!
The first order "war" was actually a minor skirmish between a cult leader of some Imperial remenant troops and a regional/sector defense force and its capitol system. Hosnian prime was the affore mentioned sector/regional capitol and its primary defence fleet was destroyed in the first attack leaving only patrols and "resistance" forces to battle the remenat in this region.
After two films I mean days the remanant was mostly in control of this region/sector and spent a year trying to enforce its will and I dunno having some drinks or something having lost is primary base (starkiller) and its flagship plus leader (supremacy + snoke) it was largely ignored by the republic (based on Coruscant) untill a second remanant started supplying arms (final order). Due to the rearmament the republic sent a task force to destory all first/final order forces and restore control to the region.
It was basiclly too small and insignifcant a conflict for the Republic to bother with for over a year and instead relied on militia forces (resistance + that copy pasta fleet). The First order Skirmish as it was known in the wider galaxy is barely a foot note in glactic events and mostly just a Jedi cult thing that no one cared about except for ridding the galaxy of those pesky force users who had cause so much suffering with wars over thousands of years.
And thus ends the Star Wars franchise.
Likely a thousand years into the future, the Clone Wars will just be the opening salvo on a war that lasted through multiple governments into the Final Order leaving mostly guerilla fighting against more fleet based forces culminating in a unification of all guerilla groups in a final mass battle, before complete anarchy took rein over the galaxy. Just one of the many lifetime long wars in the history of the Republic, if anything is remember or recorded at all.
I think my favourite criticism about the war is what exactly are The Resistance's goals in fighting the war because normally in warfare you need to have an achievable goal and devise a strategy for achieving said goal in the clone wars neither the republic nor the confederacy had a goal primarily because the war and in the galactic civil war the rebellion had the goal of restoring the republic whilst the empire didn't really seem to know what their own goal was which was likely a contributing factor to their loss but in the first order-resistance war neither side seems to have a goal things just happen thanks to plot convenience
Okay but I would totally read or watch that alternate history parallel you used as an example
The single WMD and rapid-fire skirmishes and political chaos feels more like one of Tom Clancy's classic quasi-wars than a major conflict.
Failures such as the Sequel Trilogy or Halo TV series are perfect examples of what happens when films are made for the audience, not for the love that the writers hold for that series. The acting, music, and absolutely the special effects were all amazing, and you can tell they all had a love for Star Wars and wanted to show a vibrant universe equally deep and expansive as our own with all the same nooks and crannies of characters and their struggles. The writers seemingly only watched the original series and said to themselves "What if we made it bigger" and proceeded to craft a story that one would probably hear while sitting next to a young child playing with Star Wars toys, the selling of which certainly seems to be the real purpose of these movies.
Wait why did picture of the Gravestone have Xwings? Gravestone would been over 60,000 years old by time Xwings came about makes you wonder if that ship survived all that time did the Eternal Throne and the Immortal fleet also survive?
The years before the war are more interesting to me. From what media we've got, it was more of a cold war than a active one. A war fought by spies instead of soldiers is something we've gotten very rarely in Star Wars. I would love it if any future sequel material leant into the espionage side of the era.
I would rather they made a good story.
@@emberfist8347 They already did.
@@davidthewhale7556 Nah the trilogy was terrible.
@@emberfist8347 Nah I like them. They’re so much better than the prequels
@@davidthewhale7556 No they are not. The Prequels had a coherent story with no plot holes.
I tried my best using your real-life comparison method.
Prequel Trilogy
1 - in the 1800s, New Zealand is blockaded by a trading coalition who is upset over British taxes and eventually invades the islands. New Zealand appeals for British assistance but it is delayed and delayed, eventually managing to fend off the coalition mostly on their own. The representative of New Zealand makes the near abandonment of New Zealand a rallying point for change, and is elected Prime Minister.
2 - Many British colonies revolt against Britain, which mobilizes in turn.
3 - The representative of New Zealand/the Prime Minister is given emergency powers and absolute authority, which he then uses to overthrow Parliament, using the entire British military which he has under his direct control, and declares a totalitarian Empire controlled solely by him. He uses the militaries of the revolting colonies, also under his direct control, to take control over the colonies. It is revealed that everything from the trading coalition to the declarations of independence have been orchestrated by him for the sole purpose of gaining power.
Original Trilogy
1 - in WW2, a formidable rebellion has been located by the German Empire, which sends the pride of its fleet: a massive aircraft carrier equipped with nuclear bombs. Thankfully as it closed within bombing range of the main rebellion base, an attack run by the rebellion landed a lucky hit and destroyed it.
2 - the rebellion, now on the run from the German Empire which seeks retribution for the sinking of its flagship, sets up camp in a freezing desolate wasteland with great anti-air defences. Unfortunately the Germans find them and send their tanks and troopers to flush out the base. Thankfully the rebellion flees just in time.
3 - the German Empire has started construction on an even more powerful nuclear-equipped aircraft carrier, and have centred most of their entire fleet around it. Before they can complete it, the rebellion tracks down their encryption codes to let them into its airspace where they strike the weakened aircraft carrier, destroying it and most of the German fleet. The leader of the German Empire is killed along with the aircraft carrier, and the German Empire collapses with the rebellion organizing shattered cities and towns into a new democratic German Republic.
Sequel Trilogy (mostly Templin's)
1 - in 1941, the Empire of Japan drops several nuclear bombs on Washington DC and the surrounding major cities. The colossal aircraft carrier used to produce and drop the nukes is destroyed within hours by a squadron originating from an independent, American-aligned militia, however, the United States immediately capitulates.
2 - The next day the independent militia is chased by Yamato and a few other Japanese warships, but are all destroyed in a ammunition ship's kamikaze attack. The Emperor of Japan is also killed, having been on board.
3 - The following day the Empire of Japan controls the entire world, and is offered a gift of hundreds of nuclear bombs by a mysterious nation-state led by the thought-killed German Emperor, but fractures in a global uprising. The German Emperor is killed at last by the rebellion in his hideout.
The stakes dont need to be huge for a story to be interesting, but the stakes do need to be clear and obvious
These guys could legitimately be military historians or statisticians
Man, that was cathartic.
I couldn't finish the video. not because its a bad video or anything. It's just that you put more thought into analyzing the world and plot than any of the writers did creating it.
Iirc TIEs don't have hyperspace capability. With this in mind in makes sense the first order wouldn't deploy fighters as soon as they enter a system because if they have to chase the rebels or jump again they have to take time recalling everything before redeployment. Also it seems in the star wars universe that at least the imperial side tends not to deploy fighters until they're within a certain range or they're being attacked. I'm guessing there is some reason assumed for this.
Dude, I'd like to thank you for explaining the inconsistencies and weird stuff about the movies. Before, I thought everyone was just being pedantic because watching those movies one at a time, over the course of years, they're not entirely bad movies to watch, but when you put them all together and explain it like that, I can see why a lot of fans didn't like these movies.
Now, with that considered, the Clone Wars trilogy is better than the OG trilogy
It's almost like watching children try to tell a story, and each time is switches narrator they fight and start going "Nuh uh! MY First Order would NEVER do that...!"
These videos are awesome. Even if each one is like picking at a fresh wound to my heart...
that's basically what happened, with Rian Johnson throwing out JJ Abrams's draft for Episode 8 and then proceeding to "subvert expectations," derailing everything Abrams had set up in TFA and forcing him to cram two movies' worth of events in TROS
@@Nbdestryer Behind the Scenes info shows Abrams also had NO PLAN whatsoever. He made it up too. At least if he kept Rian's changes, as... odd and sometimes bad as they were, I'd at least have a modicum of respect for Abrams and ROS. Instead, it's bad playground politics.
I reckon they shouldn't have had a resistance, and just had the New Republic military do its thing, and have the Empire remnants be the main big threat across the galaxy. But then the First Order, an extremist group that thought that the Empire didn't take things far enough, shows up on the block, and through some manoeuvring and planning gets its hand on a superweapon (maybe like the destructive power of the Death Star shown in Rogue One - doesn't blow up planets, but it'll still kill everything on or near the surface regardless). Now it's like a reversal of the original trilogy: trying to find and hunt down the Empire forces while they show up and attack people mercilessly. That would also give them more reason to wipe out planets - they're extremists, not conquerors. And that would also allow for a neat option: Republic and the old Empire remnants teaming up against these extremists.
The sequel trilogy should have used Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam as a template for how you successfully follow up a groundbreaking space opera.
The battle of Exegol doesn't make any sense since the Resistance is attacking a thousand star destroyers with a few squadrons but, ok, I guess this strategy fits Poe's record. I do think it could have been better concluded if, instead of a fleet of volunteers coming out of nowhere, certain First Order deserter who happened to be hacking the communications made a speech to his former comrades telling them to follow their instincts and disobey the people who kidnapped them and forced them to be soldiers. At least, Finn's arc would have gone somewhere.
The progression of the war is like the naming convention for the First Order and Final Order. We went from the beginning to the end without knowing when and how we got there.
Perhaps it could be said that the war between the Resistance and First / Final Order saw the beginning of an era of no republic or empire / order. The various worlds just form their own separate alliances and treaties of no hostilities / peace or trade routes. It feels like that would be natural progression of a galaxy that has endured basically what could amount to three civil wars over a span of 60+ years. Maybe the various worlds are just done with any centralized galactic power and would like to be on their own, but recognize having some kind of alliance for protection against possible threats.
Yeah I was under the impression after TLJ the first order had like 8 ships left and like MAYBE a few thousand soldiers. Yeah I know it’s possible they had other assets but they really made it seem like the first orders whole fleet went after the resistance on crait. And it was just bizarre
Star Wars Bloodlines, the Poe Dameron comics, the Allegiance comics, Star Wars Resistance and Resistance Reborn provide some larger context.
My big problem with that whole 'chase' has always been that Kylo knocks out the bridge and hanger, then gets called back because 'they cant cover him' from that distance. Fair enough, for this, Ill accept the capital ships cant keep up. But how many Tie fighters would be aboard all those capital ships? Surely they can launch enough to swarp them?
The first order pulled a Terencio Varrón y Lucio Emilio Paulo move quite literally
"You would expect the Republic navy scattered across the galaxy conducting patrols..." Not if the Republic had a Fleet Day, and its entire navy all showed up in one place...
"Mars Aeternum! Death is no disgrace."
For me one of the worst parts is that the new republic gained random allies from across the world. Defeated the first order and flew to exegol in a day and had the resources to defeat the first order First of all the new republic somehow had their entire fleet in the capital and that got destroyed by the super weapon. Even if the weapon had the accuracy or power to destroy the capital from that distance in the time it took the blast to get there some of the fleet should've escaped. either their close and it would've been easy to know the attacks coming or their far and the time it should take for the blast gives time for at least some of the fleet to escape. And Lando somehow can get enough allies to join in a day. I mean they already didn't help them before when it was just the first order. Now they have that on top of Palpatine returning and they decide in a matter of hours to join up. I mean even the rebellion took years, and they destroyed two Deathstar's, darth Vader, Palpatine, and had the empire being weaker from infighting, as well as top diplomats and still had a tough time getting allies over years. Not only would they likely not get enough allies for that fleet but it's in a dangerous hyperspace lane and the ships are random. They're not formatted or designed properly. No military just takes random ships on missions if they don't have to. And even the rebels tried to have specific ships even if they weren't the most modern. Even if Palpatine just had star destroyers that's still a huge with trained crew against random ships. It takes time to amass a fleet like that and even if they did they would've had to beat the first order first to even get to Palpatine and even then they wouldn't have been unscathed.
The First/Final Order still exists post the fall at Exogol. There is still knocking around the galaxy that one Star Destroyer that destroyed Kajimi. It presumably had a full crew of loyal members. And with it's ability to hyperjump into a system, destroy the planet and jump back out again within a few minutes, Tracking it down will mean a huge amount of work for a galaxy that is no doubt at this moment relaxing and once again rushing into disarming itself in the name of democracy.
A commentator observed that all the elements were here, but the writers did nothing with them. The commentator said a half dozen 10 year olds with a pile of Legos could have crafted a better narrative than the garbage we ended up with.