Making the Best of a $20000 Mistake
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มิ.ย. 2023
- It's time to figure out what to do next with my blown LS7 and I need to find out whether I cracked the block when I dropped an exhaust valve at the track. If I'm building a GT3-Killer out of my 2007 Corvette Z06 I'll need a proper engine, but there are a lot of choices!
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Here's the LS7 build I mentioned in the video: www.motortrend.com/how-to/1811-build-de-stroked-ls7-for-high-rpm-road-racing/
What do you think the cost would be for an LS7 that can safely rev to 8K RPM?
"Safely rev to 8K RPM"? I think the limit is the mass and velocity of pushrods, not the stroke. So propably goal not achievable for "normal guys"
For me the answer is here th-cam.com/video/yoCNBUj-3JQ/w-d-xo.html = Chevy runs deep
I read the article and option 3 would be my last option. RPM = heat. The car was engineered for 7k rpm. My immediate concerns would be cooling capacity, driveline, and gearing. Will the transmission like 8k rpm shifts? How long will it hold up over long periods? Will you have to be in 2nd gear more? 2nd gear currently goes to 90mph at 7k rpm. The design of the engine will also require more maintenance. It has solid lifters and you will need to monitor and adjust lash. They add custom oil squirters, which impacts oil pressure. Do they spec an oil pump to adjust for that? What impact does that have on the life of an ls7? The valve springs are also very stiff. Will they require routine replacement? Destroking also brings down the CI to 388 which is nearly the same as option 1.
In addition to my C6 Z06, I have a Mustang with the coyote engine. Those are high rpm engines and they can easily hit 8k rpm. I modified mine to do so, but I wouldn't take it their on the track. They are known to generate much more heat when you start going over 7k rpm and are known to fail when you race them to 8k rpm. Option 3 is a path where you will be a pioneer and on your own little island. I prefer options 2 and 4, and I have done both. Option 2 came out fine for me, and the engine still produced great power. But if the budget is there, option 4 is nice to have.
@@cxavier68 Good point about heat! Thanks for the input, it's great to hear from people who've been through the same decisions.
Also, you may want to be realistic as to what you really want with the car before you do anything.. If it's mostly going to live on the track, with some occasional street duties, starting off with a shortblock may not be what you want.. If it was me, I'd go with a bare engine block, or fix the one you have depending on how much that will cost.. Haven't re-sleeved anything since like 2004, so I have no idea how much that costs now. But, after doing that, I'd totally spend the money on forged internals: Crank, pistons, connecting rods- stuff that will love the rpm and not mind the heat. From there, have it all internally balanced- if you are already in for machine work with the block, send them the other parts to have them weighed, and corrected.. Then, the usual ARP Bolts/Studs, and use the torque grease as they instruct.. (also remember, the torque sequence is theirs, along with the numbers). From there, studs on things that you will remove and replace a lot are advisable.. probably would consider that with the head studs, unless ARP recommends against it.. As for heads- Richard Holdener has a good shoot out:
th-cam.com/video/DBY8F8cPXQc/w-d-xo.html
But, take a look at the DSE build for the short stroke, as that is a true track demon..
מה דעתך על lsx 454
It's actually really nice watching a down to earth individual turning a wrench rather than a pro shop turning out seemingly perfect step by step results. Stay humble and keep grinding. You'll get there.
Thanks man!
Detroit Speed also built an de-stroked LS7 that put out 700hp and revved to 8500rpm
Hnnngh 🤤
Although I love my LS7, I would stay away from a new or used LS7 and try to find the most reliable option for track use. If mine ever becomes a paper weight that's the route I'll be going. I sent my heads to Katech and since then the car has seen thousands of track miles. I plan to check the valve guide clearance over the winter just to be safe.
Josh, I agree that option 4 is your best bet. You can get a new aluminum LS7 short block from Shafiroff Racing for $7,895 plus $250 for dry sump extended crankshaft snout option. Then, add aftermarket heads of your choice and get that car back on the track.
Thanks. It seems like the smart choice if I want to stick with the LS7, which I do.
Yea buddy!
I agree that this is the best option. I would not put an LS3 in a Z06.
@@JoshVanVeldplease do this, don’t destroke. Not necessary
@@JoshVanVeld Please...please stick with the LS7. It's such a joke when people stuff LS3's in this car.
A destroked LS7 is definitely a dream build and I'd love to see you pursue it hopefully the stars align to make it happen 😊
Josh, build/rebuild an engine at home. You are more than capable and for any help you need, the folks here will guide you. Have some confidence in your work - you do better quality work than many 'techs' out there anyway.
Not sure if you noticed my head removal technique this time... 😅
That head removal
" technique " happens to almost everyone at least once in a career as an automotive engineer :)
@@JoshVanVeld don't sweat lol dam little letters!
Everybody and their mother is a youtube car guru these day
Texas speed has what you’re looking for.
I would love to have one of these cars. Wisest thing to do for anyone buying one of these would be to address the valve issue right away.
Great video - you really show the human side of following a dream. I haven’t read the article of the D stroked LS7 but given its reliability for tracking I’d give it a serious thought of moving forward. You don’t want to find yourself in the same position a second time. Good Luck!
Texas speed has been putting out some good stuff the last few years. A quick look and you could get your 427, great internals such as Lunati rods, Callies crank, ARP bolts and a nasty set of heads that would give you your high rpm you desire. about 16 thousand from pricing online.
You could go this route but I would suggest calling them so they can make sure the cam profile, compression ratio and over all build meets your needs for the road course and drivability.
The idea of rewelding a cracked block just doesn't sit right with me, especially when considering the abuse that it would take on track. I feel like there's way too much that could go wrong. As far as I see the best options are:
1.I know you mentioned that you aren't comfortable buying used parts anymore, which I understand, but if you're gonna build a motor then I could see it being smart to pick up something used and then going through it with a fine tooth comb and doing some upgrades along the way like a cam and getting the heads done. That would probably be the most cost effective option while making me personally a little more comfortable than fixing a cracked block.
2. Just getting a crate motor and fixing the heads. Sure you're in it probably around 25k by the time that all is said and done but the motor is then quite literally ready for anything you can throw at it and I'm sure that it could be a big selling point when the time comes to get rid of the car.
3. (and probably the best) New short block and then aftermarket heads. This one speaks for itself I think and is probably the goldilocks option between the top two. Potential for big power and essentially a new motor.
Thanks for writing that up. Makes a lot of sense to me!
This is a block that already has iron cylinder sleeves, it needs to be known if it's just the sleeve that has cracked or the entire block. If it's just the sleeve, the repair is well known and reliable, bore the sleeves out and press in new ones, it's not a radical repair. If the actual non sleeve part of the block is cracked then I would tend to agree with you, I would be suspect of the reliability.
Invest in a pulley ceiling hanger made for removable hard tops. Don't risk your hood. Hangers are cheap.
Man I love your mindset and your ability to communicate the inner dialog I think we all have when working on our cars. Keep it up!
Depending on how the car is geared and the tracks you run, more rpm might not be what you need to be competitive. I was recently working working with someone on a C5 Z06, and he wants to make more use of 4th gear, but he needs more torque. I came up with a cam spec that will do that, at the expense of power above 6200 rpm. But, the car is faster on that track.
I have always felt crate engines represent a poor value for the money. I realize the position you are in. I think you should be very honest with yourself about your goals for the car. If need be, write them out. Make a plan to address those goals. Don't hesitate to reach out to others in making that plan.
I have redone my share of LS7 heads. There are a few ways to do it that are quite effective. I wouldn't hesitate to sleeve that block and use the engine competitively.
Fun fact about the goat in a stal with the horse. City people dont have these type of interactions
Destroked LS7 is defs where your heart is and imo you should 100% do it regardless of what others say.
LS’s are simple and you’re methodical. You’ll be fine building your own engine. Get the short lock with aftermarket heads, and skip all of the titanium parts.
That’s what I was gonna say exactly, titanium internals from what I’ve heard aren’t it
It’s a vicarious thrill to watch you work on this complicated beast. Not at all like the Honda RS125 GP bike I used to race. The whole thing weighed 155 pounds. One brake (I never used the rear), one carb, one piston and reeds, but no mechanical valves. The pistons only lasted for about 300 miles, but could be replaced in 15 minutes (less for someone with mechanical competence). A set of slicks cost under $400 and could last for three race weekends. The fairing and fuel tank were held in with five dzus fasteners so the bike could be stripped in seconds. Such a joy to work on!
You cannot beat a motorcycle for cost/thrill ratio on track and I wish I’d started wrenching on bikes because it’s so much easier to wrap your head around what’s going on and you don’t have to deal with doing all the work twice because there’s no driver’s side / passenger side. I may do a bike project for youtube at some point.
Do a cost benefit sheet for each option. I would call a couple of shops and talk with some more experienced people about your options and costs. Katech, American Heritage Performance, RPM and Texas Speed are a few great shops. AHP has a build your own 427/442cu-in that has peaked my interest. I have a Katech serialized car myself with cam and fixed heads. I personally would buy an aftermarket shortblock and some off the shelf Frankenstein ls7 heads. It is a great thing to have a lot of options though.
This guy project manages!
Thanks for the tips, I definitely need to have a conversation with an expert (or two).
Your content is so soothing it almost makes working on cars look fun.
Key word: Almost 🤣
Not the lemonade stand it's the banana split. When you got the banana wagon. Love the videos, keep it coming.
It's so fun to watch this because I was in your exact shoes about 18 months ago haha. I contemplated all these same options and actually still have my original LS7 block in hopes of rebuilding it and putting it in another project someday. The difference was, at the time that I built the motor, I didn't know that I would be tracking the car a few months after it was completed haha. So I picked a setup built for boost, only to remove the procharger to make it driveable on the track. So you're already ahead there haha.
But if I had to do it again, I wouldn't change much. I did a brand new Texas Speed block sleeved and forged everything, dropped that in and kept my old one. Only thing I would change is my compression ratio. I stepped down to 10.3:1 for boost, but would have gone 12:1 or higher if I did it again.
Anyway, love the series man. Keep it up!
Thanks dude, nice to hear a story with a happy ending!
Reach out to LEECEE PARTS.
Get a full ls7 pullout from a reputable company, know the miles, cylinder compression, everything you'll need. You'll have spare parts between both and even adding the cost of heads, cam and intake manifold you'll probably be saving some $ compared to other options.
As well as if needed sell extra components.
I would find a used LS7 then have a pro shop run through it and freshen it up. With a mild cam, (see camotion), ferrea light weight exh valves, psi springs, titanium retainers, hardened pushrods, johnson link bar lifters, and shaft mount roller rocker setup (which is the key), you can safely run up to 7500.
Most believe that solid exh valves w/ new guides or aftermarket heads fix the ls7 issue but that's only a band-aid. The side loading from the non-roller rocker arms will wear the valves and guides even with a stock cam. Been through this a bunch and going through it now. One of my Zs is apart in my garage for an update at 12k miles as I write this.The guides were well worn.
Good to know, thanks for all the info!
I like your work, it’s real! When you actually do stuff , you encounter all kinds of “challenges “
Thanks!
Don’t spare expense, buy the best.
I am really interested in the de-stroked LS7. Thank you for posting the link. I really hope you are able to do it. What a great series of videos that build would be, your viewers would also be able to see you put that motor to work on the track. Thank you for educating me, I enjoy watching your channel as my son and I have been thinking of building a track car. Your a great inspiration, stay positive and Thank you.
I figured there would be some people out there who thought it's as cool of a concept as I do! Thanks!
@@JoshVanVeld the only thing I would tell you about the destroked engine is it WILL make your valve train less durable. Also giving up that much torque won't make you faster unless you regear the rear to match the rpm range.
While it is easy to spend another man's money, I believe building the over-square track motor is the route that gives you everything you want for the dollars spent. In the end you get:
1. A 7.0 427 (well sorta)
2. A high revving motor to stir the soul
3. A content boon for the channel
4. Relatively budget friendly
5. Gives you the most wrenching experience and will provide the most pride when done.
Now, the question that really needs to be asked, what's the wifey think and how many projects are you "back burnering" because of this? That's prolly where this whole things shudda started.
Thankfully Nicole is very supportive, but everybody has their limits.
The problem with the destroked route is that it's not commonly done which raises the question of "why aren't other people doing it?" and also puts me in a position where I can't easily just follow somebody else's build sheet. I think I'd need to get an expert/guru type of person involved who could at least guide me in terms of picking parts.
Not ruling it out but I'm afraid I could find myself stuck in the weeds pretty easily.
LS7 Texas speed short block with Frankenstein or MAST heads
A very solid option! And those two heads would be my first choice.
love the story , it keep me on the hook
I spun a rod bearing. I had my heads re machined and ported and then went with a forged rotating assembly from Texas speed. 441ci.
Good work on getting to this point in your tear down. A couple of suggestions that you did not mention that are also good sources for LS7 options, Lingenfelter and TPIS. I have Lingenfelter heads on my otherwise stock LS7. For my previous dedicated track C4 Corvette I had an engine built by TPIS, a 414 small block. I had a good experience with them. The thing I learned from my dedicated track car build is that I do not have the time and resources to fully sort a modified car so that it is always reliable at the track. The more it was modified the more maintenance was required and the more additional modifications needed to meet the new loads form a previous modification. And then the much less reliable the car was. As good as many of the aftermarket suppliers are, they cannot do the level of durability testing the OEM does for what they produce, and I did not have the time or want to spend the money to fully sort highly modified car. The modified car was faster and more fun, but the cost was more maintenance and less reliability. So, when I started to track my C6 Z06 I have done minimal modifications. I have a set of wheels with my track tires that I mount for the track, and I have separate brake rotors and pad compounds that I install for the track. Not saying you will have the same experience. I look forward to seeing where you go with your project.
Great point about modification leading to more headaches. Thanks Brian!
I wanted a ZO6, but I was afraid of the motor😮I settled for a grandsport 😊 You have a family, so budgeting is important 👍I would only spend so much on my car. Get the best most reliable motor you can for 10k. You have a Bmw & a Porsche and it looks like a beautiful home👍 trust me you winning at life😊
Thanks man!! But stop trying to talk sense into me, I want to do something expensive and dumb! 😂😂😂
@@JoshVanVeld most of us would love to have your life brother. Take it from a 60 year old married guy. Wife’s only let us do so much & then they put the hammer 🔨 down🤣😂🤣
@@Steverz32 🤣🤣
Nice work area .
I went down the exact same path when my LS7 started chewing the rods. It felt like the car kept breaking one thing after another. Ended up spending stupid money rebuilding my engine (fully forged rotating assembly, Darton-sleeved block, fixed heads with the best components for valve, springs, roller rockers and a lot more). Then went ahead and upgraded all the suspension components, interior, and everything else I could think about. It goes fast and as it’s happening over a long period of time, it’s easy to lose track of cost because you get excited about the vision for the « final product ».
Eventually lost the car altogether in a stupid low-speed, not-in-my control accident. Being not at fault, insurance paid for most of it and without penalty but all this time & some of the money spent is gone.
With that experience, I have one advice: don’t get overexcited, don’t go after exotic stuff. Identify a reputable engine builder (Katech is one, but there are many others), go with what the shop recommends you based on what you’re trying to do, and be patient until it’s done. 20k should get you a very strong, reliable & exciting engine.
It’s all worth it :)
I love getting advice from people who've been through a version of what I'm going through! Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about your car.
Love the Clown Shoe! You’re doing a great job with the vids 🤙
You should talk to the guys over American Heritage Performance. I bought my heads from them for my 2015 Z/28. I highly recommend them.
The goal has not changed. Goldie is destined to beat a GT3. Torque wins races not HP. I put a A&A Procharger in my 6.2L C7 and she's putting out 635ftlbs of torque at the rear wheels (same RWHP).
If you ever want to talk to someone that's been there TWICE...
When you add power beyond the stock LS7, this causes more issues downstream. (unsurprisingly)
Also, there are a lot of crate options I would go for before the Katech. For $25K, you can get a MAST 685 Black complete with ported MSD Atomic rated for 685 HP. Texas Speed can probably get something similar down to $20K. The original LS7 GM crate motors were only $7K when available from GM. By 20K-25K you can have reliable fire breathing motor. My billet crank 8.2L and billet intake (800+hp) is only a $40K build, so spending that on 7 liter is pretty crazy.
I've had my motor out enough times that I go from drivable to engine on a stand in one evening after work.
You can make 600 hp very easily with a fully stroked LS7. It will put more power under the curve where you want it. I can spin my 8.2L to 7400RPM. In general, the power made with displacement is easier to use than power made with RPM.
Yours sounds like an absolute unit.
@@JoshVanVeld But it's waiting on parts from LG right now to finish this years upgrades. I expected to be on the road a month ago. :(
Great video! Love the LS7. Just scared of exactly what your going through.
Option 3 sounds the most exciting but I think option 4 is the most realistic, especially with wait times at machine shops. Can't wait to see which way you go! Best of luck!
Thanks! Love the user name! Whatever I pick I promise to try to make sure it's interesting.
Great video, to watch. Obviously not that great to make. I appreciate your honesty and emotion during the tear down - I’ve felt that way many times before when working on vehicles. I like wrenching if I’m upgrading or modding the vehicle, not so much if I “have” to fix something. Subbed.
If i were in your shoes I'd contact Steve at Race Engine Devolopment R.E.D, he's a Darton sleeves Engineer and been doing this type of a block repair for a long time, have it Resleeved and get yourself a Frankenstein/AFR/Brodix/PRC Heads and call it a day
Imo this is the cheapest most reliable route.
Seen many cracked LS7 sleeves due to a harsh Tune / knocking that resulted in high combustion pressures, very thin/brittle cylinder liners simply do not take it, Darton sleeves should mitigate that, thanks to their advanced Nodular iron metallurgy and thinker walls
I'll be giving him a call.
New sub. Always loved the C6 Z06. The blown engine possibility made me pause my search. Look forward to watching your progress and which direction you take.
Thanks man!
Just found your channel…that was a wild few episodes…will be very interested in the build on this Z06.
The LS3 used in the C6 Grand Sport with a manual transmission used a dry sump like the Z06. So it shouldn’t be difficult to convert the crate engine.
Love the content. So thoughtful it’s mesmerizing. I’m not anywhere close to owning a Corvette but I can’t look away. The E36 BMW content is more in my wheelhouse. But love it all including your track adventures. 👍🏼
Hell yeah, thanks man! I'm still figuring out the TH-cam stuff (obviously) so when a video really connects with somebody it means a lot to me.
oh man, when you mentioned the possibility of the LS3 I was like 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Glad you decided not to go that way! And good on you for pulling out the motor yourself. I would definitely pay Jamison Custom Corvette to pull mine out.
I had no idea how divisive the LS3 vs. LS7 debate would be!
Texas speed Sir
Hey I liked the video I would keep yours and build it the way you want.
Well, I have no mechanical advise but just wanted to encourage you on this build. You got dealt a hand many of us have had to fold. Props for recording it and taking us with you. Im glad you are doing it yourself. I’m new to the channel and hoping to see you on AMP/road Atlanta soon man!
Thanks man! Looking forward to running into you someday.
You: It’s me! ForFucksSake57591 from the comments!
Me: 🤣🤣🤣
Even with all their down falls, I like the LS7
Same here.
Man, for me, this is some of the best content on TH-cam. You do a great job. And I love how clean and organized you are.
Thanks dude, I really appreciate that!
@@JoshVanVeld here’s a crazy awesome suggestion for you, are you sitting down?…. Flat. Plane. Crank…. Booom!
@@SoloAscent 😳😮😃🪇🎷🥁🐐
You could definitely tackle an engine build (as you drop push rods everywhere and head gaskets go flying) 😂
Thanks for sharing this experience with us. Oh and I think you should either go with the de-stroker or option 4. Both will end up being reliable and fun
You’re doing a good job so far. I’m a professional so I can usually tell in pretty short order if someone is capable of say, doing an engine build. I think you can do it. As a matter of fact, I think you should. It’s an awesome experience driving something you built! I daily drive a 408 LS my son and I built. I love telling people we built it when they ask.
That’s awesome. Really appreciate the vote of confidence and the more videos I watch of people building them the more I want to try it.
How cool to have that experience with your son (and cool for him to learn from his dad). Appreciate your comments!
I imagine the LS3 would be the more reliable option vs a LS7. And the less expensive one. It really wouldn't take that many mods to get it over 500hp and it would still be cheaper and more reliable. I never have any problems with my LS3 in my Vette.
Ugh I hate how reasonable this argument is.
I run heads cam and track it, but the track I run, I don't turn high rpm.
Its no longer a Z06. Might as well sell the Z06 and get a grand sport.
I think a rebuild of that engine would worry you tremendously. You'll never trust it again. A LS7 got you in this predicament and a new one would be twice the cost or more as a LS3 and you'd have to spend thousands just getting it to LS3 reliability. A LS3 has tons of growth potential, a decent price, and it's rock solid. Just put the LS7 engine covers back on it and call it a day , no one will ever know 😁. Is a Z06 your goal or a GT3 killer your goal? If a Z06 is your goal, put a LS7 in it. If a reliable GT3 killer is your goal and you don't have unlimited amounts of money, put a LS3 in it and you'll get the HP you want with far less cost than LS7 + reliability mods + HP gains.
@@darrellsands6462 I agree the ls3 can make the same power, but not in the same way as the LS7, the bore and stroke make the car accelerate in a different power band.
If it was the same GM would have put that ls3 in there lemans cars.
My opinion only.
Option 4 best bet. Lot of options out there. Can always look at the rpm Delaware packages. Lot of great builds there.
Haven't heard of them I'll take a look. Thanks!
At the end when you feel good about things. Those are the signs that it's going to work out. Excited to see what's next !!!!!
Glad you picked up on that! I kind of hate showing myself having a bad time on video because it means I wasn't having fun and if I'm not having fun, what's the point of doing this? But sometimes the going gets a little rough and you just have to keep going and things get better.
@JoshVanVeld I really respect that you showed the frustrations too. That way when you show the finished product it'll have more of an impact to the users knowing what you went thru to get there. As well as we know the ups and downs when we try a rebuild project. I don't usually choose to receive notifications on a channel but in this case I have to on this 😂😂😂
@@interstateboss5921 That's awesome, I appreciate the support! The TH-cam channel project and the car project are kind of intertwined for me which definitely makes things more challenging but it's worth it when I'm able to connect with fellow enthusiasts. Please keep dropping comments with feedback about what you like or don't like in the videos, it helps me a lot.
I Do Cars has plenty of teardowns to enjoy. AFR, Trickflow, Brodix heads on a short block should do the trick.
Nice I"ll check that out, I don't think I've seen their videos yet.
I enjoy your videos a lot. It’s always a bummer when someone is going through the issue of a blown engine, but the pain will make it all the more worth it and satisfying once you get it back on the road. You could blow up a Miata engine and probably have it back in action “by next weekend” without much fuss, and you’d be thinking “that wasn’t bad at all”.
I do like the idea (and the sound) of a big V8 revving to 8k rpm.
Also, you’re doing great with your work. Having worked on cars for 15 years, it is a good idea to take your time and try to understand what you are doing as best as possible (like you seem to be doing), instead of just removing bolts and things without a care and then wondering how it all goes back together.
Also a junkyard Miata engine can be had for like $500. And the Miata guys aren't having any less fun out on track (except on the straightaways).
Thanks! I do need to spend more time making sure I understand what everything I disconnect does. With vaccuum lines and coolant hoses I tend to not really trace the routing to understand where they hook up on the other end. Same with sensors.
Revving to 8k sounds amazing but you also have to consider how will your transmission like shifting at 8k . Good luck on build
That had not occurred to me. Good point!
Bowler Transmissions, seem to be one of the high profile trans tweaking companies for Tremecs. You could also add for minimal money, an aftermarket short throw shifter, yourself.
Keeping trans, engine and diff oil cool once extra hp and torque show up along with the higher grip levels of slicks generating more work all around.
Means the extra cooling kits...Will still be vastly lower cost at least 50% less cost of the Porsches the Vette will Spank . Remember when counting the dollars spent on upgrades. You are just adding extras the Gt3 and Gt2 come with stock. Closely followed by Shock! When you price Porsche, Audi or AMG and Lambo go fast goodies.
Vette long term still adds up ok, if used regularly for years on track..and the odd Cafe or road event run you like 👍 to mix it up with...
Great video buddy, very down to earth and interesting...
@@JoshVanVeldjunkyard 5.3, 2 ebay cheapy turbos, 700 reliable hp until you build your 7 liter dream engine?
While destroking a LS7 sounds dreamy, I wouldn't do it. First it's no longer the 427ci you wanted to stay with, you'd be giving up tq and likely hp, it would require a pretty radical cam to get the RPM you're looking for, and increased RPM comes at the cost of $, longevity, and reliability.
A LS3 just isn't a 427, I couldn't give up the power or even do it to a C6Z and remove most of what made it special to begin with. Nope!. The LS7 crate engine doesn't sound like the smartest path since you'd want to tear it all down anyway to make the necessary mods.
I'd be hesitant to fix your block. Too much time, cost, and at the end of the day you're left wondering if it was fixed properly and how long it will hold up. If it doesn't, lots of money spent, and you're back at square one.
The Katech engine is sweet, but $$,$$$ unless you have the $ to spend/burn (most don't).
I'd probably buy the used LS7 and rebuild it to your specs. It's probably the cheapest route to reliability and get exactly what you want... That or buy a new aftermarket block and go from there. But personally, I'd opt for the used engine and rebuild to my specs. Besides, lots of spare parts that way as well.
Any tips on how to avoid a used LS7 that has undisclosed problems? Bore scope and leakdown test?
@@JoshVanVeld I bore scope goes a long way as would a leakdown test. Another option is to just call TSP and order a short block or even a long block with their aftermarket CNC heads. They will build to your specs as well. Keep in mind they might want your core and you likely won't get anything for your block. If you're not willing to take any risk on a used engine (even though I'd hope you'd go through it anyway), calling TSP might be your fastest and easiest way to get back up and running without taking a 2nd mortgage out on the house, and having all new stuff. They have an incredible machine shop and know the LS as well as anyone.
I find option 3 very interesting. Living vicariously, I hope you do that.
Hey Jason!! I hope you are doing well? I suggested taking to the guys at American Heritage Performance.
@@dougb3740 Still happy with my head and cam combination I had them do. Sucks that Josh had to go through this. It is a roll of the dice, for sure. Josh, if you talk to the folks at AHP...they won't steer you wrong.
I dont think that subject can be covered in the comments
however, i will try my best.
The main problem in ls7 is the aluminum block material, so if you bought another block, it will be broken again and again. And that is waste of cash.
paying more form the beginning will save your money later.
LSR block is quite good and reliable better that RHS, because RHS has heat problems as we test it.
about the power,
your aim should be building a reliable engine as much as you can, after that you can increase the power with your differential final drive, for example if you use 4.11 final drive your torque will increase 20%, and this is really enough for the track.
this is my advice if you have any more question, I already texted you in the Instagram.
happy to share knowledge, since im building my engine right now
Thank you, I'll check my messages. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. Definitely curious to hear about the testing you've done.
The delicate ls7 strikes again. So glad I traded my z06 and have the ls9 zr1 now
Jealous!
have a shop darton sleeve an 5.3/6.2/6.0 alloy block for 4.125 bore, as far as destroking the motor. the 427s have the punch out of the corner without winding the motor hard, a properly spec cammed for the application i think would be your best bet, and IMO johnson short travel lifters.... if your really considering de stroking the motor. look into the l8t crank which is a 3.850 stroke, forged, fully counterweighted for strength *8 counter weights*. will now need to go aftermarket piston/rods to make the right ratio. but i would be looking into oil cooling mods for sure if you plan to rev it to 8k. your valve springs should be pulled at the end of each season to check for wear/tear. 8k shifts really strain the springs.
Man, I’m sitting here in the same situation as you were before this happened. To one up that I’ve already had the same problem you did but worse (windows in both sides of the block) from the LS7 I put in my 69 Camaro. Yet I’ve been saying the same as you, if I shift it at 6500 I think it will make it through this season. I’ve got some deciding to do I think. I’ll keep following along on yours, keep the videos coming.
Wow, LS7 in a '69 Camaro sounds like a killer combo, sorry to hear it grenaded! If I could go back and do it again I would at very least do the valve wobble test. Pretty sure it would have shown that the valves were starting to wobble.
Ls7 shortblock and heads cam package from rpm. I'm going with heads and cam from them as they have that action down
Buy a 5.3 block. Bore it, sleeve it, buy the crank you want to get the desired displacement. Buy a built set of LS3 based heads from whatever vendor you like and send it.
There’s a blueprint ls3 for around 8k that makes 530hp and 495trq redline
Is close to 7k it’s not a dry sump but I’m
Sure you can retrofit a dry sump on it since the grandsport has an ls3 with a dry sump
Option …… also im
Never driving my z06 until I do the heads
I say jump on that bicycle and go for a long ride… I do my best thinking while riding and it could help you sort through all the options without the emotions as you’ll be too exhausted to have them..
Also- as stated kudos for tackling such a big job, on your own without a 4 post lift.. crawling around on the floor and staying organized in such a beautiful garage (which poses other considerations as everything’s so nice and not wanting to damage/dirty the place) is a factor to this as well.
I've been doing a lot of distance running lately and I spend 90% of the time thinking about this project 😂
Do the short block (TKM or Smedding) and if the heads are salvageable, send them to Advanced Induction in Charlotte NC. Just had mine done and dude does amazing work.
If your short block is salvageable, rebuild it. Take your time, do plenty of research. The hardest part about a short block is bearing clearance and ring gap. You’re skilled enough to do it yourself. If you’re tracking the car as often as you do, it’s not a bad idea to have it “on the shelf”.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but keep the content coming! Good channel!
Thanks man I appreciate the advice! Hoping to have a good update soon.
You can detect micro cracks and fractures using magnetic NDI tests.
If you plan to go all the way, might want to invest in CNC billet blocks.
Cast blocks are meant for limited power use. Production has inherent risk of stress areas.
Destroked ls7 for the win 🥇👌🏾🥇
You may not think so but I see more than enough potential in you, rebuild that engine. If you buy new, the old engine will be a toe kicker in your garage. don't settle for less, do it. After that build you will be so happy with yourself. Study and learn from other peoples mistakes through TH-cam, you will be fine. These LS engine are the best for an under dog to learn with. Valve train is the key, spend the money on the valve train, remember the valve train is what broke that engine. Dig in and dig deep, take your time, you can do it. This engine ran great and will again with some help from you. That engine is without a doubt, rebuildable.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Bite the bullet, ready your finances and go with the most horsepower engine that will suit your needs on the track and desires you won’t regret it in the long run. There is nothing worse than doing a big job just to cut costs and never being happy with your decision and outcome.
When I watch your videos I’m like…it’s the multiverse effect…I’m doing the same stuff, suffering the same pains but with different cars and place.
Lol. Your patience is commendable. I would have to edit out the parts where I threw tools…lol. First…find an awesome machine shop. Second, agree and commit to your budget…which controls the conversation you have at the machine shop. You have an end goal jn mind and you can achieve it. But you have to control the outside influences, meaning the folks like me…because two things: opinions are like rectums…everybody has one, and secondly, money is no object, when it’s yours and not mine. I’d fix the block and shop for the parts that fit your goals. The machine shop will make sure it’s put together correctly.
Haha great point! And setting a budget is really something I need to do in order to box myself in.
Yup just keep the old block and take ur time building it exactly how u want and in the mean time get a quality shortblock with great heads that you can use on the new build when the time comes.
Since money is a factor you should go with option 4. Get the short block and aftermarket heads. I wish you the best of luck.
I built my LS 7 with a Whipple 2.9 supercharger. It makes 710 to the rear wheels. Its supposed to be very safe. It drives great on the road great mileage but want hook up. I have 355/30/19 on the back and still spins with just a tap on the peddle. I had 10 grand in labor and another 18 grand in parts counting the shifter and double clutches. I built it to have 1000 Hp, at the wheels but the stock crank and pistons would not hold. I am running 10 lbs. of boost. I love it its fun. I take it to car shows and church every now and then. I have kooks long tube headers straight piped to the back. Nick Williams 103 throttle body after market fuel system, head studs, about everything other than the crank and pistons. 280 cc ported polished heads ,new balancer ,and a lot of other stuff. A lot to say at quitting time. In hind site I should have bought a big block and saved my LS7. or sold it and had good down payment for new motor. Good luck.
Good golly that sounds like a beast!! I hope it doesn’t bother folks in the church parking lot 😅
That’s awfully nice of you to comfort that Jack stand under the car.
Poor little fella was probably just as scared as me.
Watching this makes me happy I can lift my Camaro's body off the engine(with the headers still attached) and cradle.
Great video again. Gotta give you a ton of credit. I’m afraid to do an oil change on my Z06, let alone an engine rebuild. Best of luck, still suggesting an LSX engine swap if within your budget. Haven’t done the research to price them out.
Thanks! I think the LSX has an iron block so I'll probably stick with something aluminum for the sake of weight and weight distribution.
Option 4 hands down. Plenty of sub options within option 4, to go from mild to wild setup. For example, a Darton sleeved LS7 short block with forged internals, Mast as cast (or ported heads if you can stretch budget further), ported MSD manifold, NW 102/103, Haltech or Vararam cold air, 2” long tube headers, Stage 4 NA LS7 cam, 650cc injectors and flex fuel and you have a 600+WHP NA setup, with plenty of torque too, and a powerband that goes up to 7300RPM.
Tried and true combinations.
Option 4 100%. You’d essentially have a brand new motor and with aftermarket heads and valve train it would be bulletproof while making excellent power. Also, the more I work on my Corvette and watch others work on theirs, the less I miss my BMW’s lol. The frustration felt during this would be 1000x worse with a German platform. Don’t get me wrong I still love them, and to me Porsche 911 is the goat, but Corvette simplicity is truly a thing of beauty.
Yeah playing with Porsches on track is not in my budget right now. If you can't join em, beat em!
High RPM is in the cam and the valvtrain, destroking will just kill low end torque so you HAVE to rev it all the time. We all want a high rpm screamer but the reality is bigger cubes + lower rpm = more power and more reliability and faster lap times
Thanks, this is probably what I need to hear. Goal is beat GT3's and try to keep it within a reasonable budget and do as much of the work as I can myself. High RPM might turn out to be a wild goose chase that doesn't really advance the goal.
Mast Motorsports black label engine if money isn't an option but honestly you might be able to save your block and throw in some new pistons and aftermarket heads. That would probably be the less expensive route but unfortunately the longest one.
Going through this myself at the moment but mine is a lingenfelter LS7. Considered all your options including an LS3 but changing the identity of the car didn’t feel right. They’re rebuilding it as we speak with the 630 package + upgrading the bottom end for track reliability. $20k + the block. I like option 4 for the reasons you mentioned. It’s OEM+, you’ll trust it and you’ll be done sooner. Lingenfelter has had my engine since March, still waiting.
Sounds like an awesome build but yeah I don't know if I can stomach the idea of waiting for months for a shop to finish the work, even if it's just to get the block repaired.
IMO, your current block is toast. Due to the open cavity design, fixing the cracked block is almost impossible. I bet you will find multiple cracks and cracked most of the way down the cylinder. I would buy a short block from reputable builder and go from there. Also, replace ALL your dry sump lines, etc. Do not try to clean them and re-use. Also, you dont have to destroke to get rpms. Does it help, yes, but a standard stroke LS7 that is built can turn 7500-8000 all day long, but I would suggest going away from stock style rocker.
Hey Josh - one other thing to think about is cooling. Once you go heads/cam/intake/headers it will get real hot under the hood and oil/coolant temps get spicy. As you’re deciding what to do about the motor also think about what you might want to upgrade in the cooling system. It’s expensive but I recommend the GSpeed track cooling package. It works incredibly well and frees up a bunch of room at the front of the engine. Also pairs nicely with a TrackSpec hood vent.
My car is making 560 whp and it’s really really really fun on the road and on the track. I also came from a 911, 991.1 GTS and the Corvette is way more fun to drive.
Great advice thank you. Part of why I originally wanted to keep the motor stock is so I wouldn't have to deal with cooling issues.
You should do a LSX block or RHS block with a 4.185 (454) bore and 3.26 stroke (4.8L)
Which leaves you with 358ci which is what nascars use
I feel your pain, disassembling the engine bay with no plan of how you’re gonna fix it. It’s especially worse when you feel like the car has been one big PITA the entire time owning it. I had this same journey with an RX-8 I used to have. You’re almost on the upside though, once you have whatever engine parts ordered you decide to go with, things will finally start coming together [: good luck [:
Thanks dude! I had an ‘04 RX-8 that gave me some troubles but it was a fun car to drive. I’m feeling better and better the more research I do. Thanks for the comment.
Hey Josh, I think you should save and repair the original engine to go with the car in the future. Find another engine of your liking for tracking and as time and resources allow fix the original LS7 if possible. One day you will likely sell the Z06 and that motor may be worth more in the future than you would expect. the day you move to your next track car, you can pull that race bullet and install the original engine and sell for more money and sell that race bullet as well. These cars have already bottomed out on price so its a good bet.
Think about a lingenfelter motor. Not quite as much as the other. Probably in the 25k range depending on which one
Just buy a short block Josh, heads just need to be fixed and have stainless steel valve´s put in instead(and get them ported maybe?😈).
You should be able to get this all done for less than 10k alot less, spending 30-40k would be silly and also be very unnecessary.
Old heads and old block seem easily repairable. Stock sleeve are junk anyways. And whatever the block you decide to get, keep ls7 heads and ls7 intake.
Hey! I came across your Channel with last week's Video and have been binge-watching since... :D
I really like the content and can't wait to so where it goes. Here is a bit of my input on what you should do.
First of all, I would list my options (as you did in the Video)
1. Buy a new head, have both heads and the block fixed (probably the cheapest)
2. Buy a used LS7 with (maybe?) already fixed heads
3. Buy a crate engine
4. Rebuild and de-stroke
5. Something bizarre, maybe expensive, but definitely fun!
Option Number 1 is probably the most cost-effective together with option 2. You'd have everything back to normal and could continue as planned and if something breaks in the future you can use some of the shelf parts without having to empty all your savings.
Option Number 2 is more or less a Plug and play fix and you'd have some spare parts from the broken engine for the future. Who knows if you need it one day...
Option Number 3 sounds really fun. A crate engine is cool, and probably reliable for your use, but expensive. I'm sure some communities know all about it and could help you along the way. Looking at the price and spare parts prices (for the Katech one) I'd put this option to the end of the List.
Option 4 is really cool IMO. You would get close to the car you are trying to beat! If you were to go down to 4 - 4.4L you would have something similar to the Porsche GT engine and could almost rev as high. The Motortrend article you mentioned says it all.
Option 5 is an Idea I came up with while watching. Why not look into a used Ferrari 458 V8 engine together wit ha good transmission? They rev high, have a good power output, and are pretty reliable. It would probably set you back the same amount as the Katech engine. Most important though they are cheaper than e.g. the Katech one. You would probably need a new ECU, Transmission, and other stuff as they are obviously not compatible which makes this the most cost-intensive idea. It'd be a bit of a "poor mans ferrari"... but in a expensive way lol! You also mentioned the Garage56 Nascar, so what about a used Nascar engine? They are High-revving, reliable V8. Le Mans also has the LMP2 class and they use engines made by Gibson or Judd. It would be fun to see something like that, but they are expensive and need a lot of maintenance/rebuilds. (look into Ryan Tuercks V10 Supra, it has a Judd V10)
All in all I would go for Option 4 or 5. Number 4 is the cheaper one and still really cool. Number 5 would be crazy and especially cool to see for the Channel.I would love to see something high revving. At the end of the Day it's a project car. It's not only about the Laptime or being the First in an Autocross. It's about having a fun car, a great journey and most importantly a great Story! So choose something that brings you joy and make you look forward to building/driving the car again. Make it something special and something that makes you proud at the end of the day.
Keep up the great work and greetings from Germany!
PS: Secretly I'm rooting for the Ferrari engine. Crazy and cool.
This guy gets it! Love the 458 concept, but man I have zero fab skills, zero engine swap experience, so that might be a bit too ambitious. I'm all for doing something ambitious but I don't want to set myself up for failure. Definitely worth thinking about though! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
BTW are you a native German? How is your English so good?!?
@@JoshVanVeld Thats a totaly resonable point! we can all keep the Idea in mind for the future :D
Yup, I am native German. Learned English in School, switched all my devices to english and read news, watch movies and everything else in English. Just implement it everywhere in you everyday life. Thanks for the compliment, really appreciate it.
I bought a c5z last year with only 500 miles!! Even so I wondered if I should have just got a c6z with a little more miles to get the obvious benefits of all the upgrades. But the potential reliability told me to go the safer route get the light c5z that’s brand new and have fun build it up over the years. After seeing yours I am really glad I went that route. So thank you for that. Danny popp beating up fully built c6’s with his built to the moon c5 gave me the confidence that the c5 chassis is a force to be reckon with and not too mention pop up head lights:) my goal is tons of suspension and chasssis work and cooling upgrades and then sprinkling power in.
I think your build will be just fine in the end. You seem like you have a good income and head on your shoulders. Don’t be afraid of a brand new 6.2 with a power adder that is not a down grade at all!!!!! I wouldn’t be afraid of an LT1 or LT4 swap either. If I could put any engine in mine and money wasn’t an option I’d do LT4
C5Z is a great car, I had one a few years ago and it was the first thing I did track days with. Love the platform!
Haven't heard (read) Danny Popp's name in a long while. He was a semi regular participant at my local Autocross way back in the early 90's when I started out. Did a ride a long with him in the 69 Corvette, was pretty exciting considering was only an Autocross course.