It's really depressing hearing about the rise and fall of the Northern and Southern Song dynasty. What a fantastic, industrious, short lived era of Chinese history. I wonder how different things would have been if the Northern Song Dynasty never betrayed the Liao? How much (if any) would have changed?
Who knows? What happened, happened. At least the Song got a new lease on life in Jiankang. What a tragic ending they had, especially for Huizong and the royal family.
...Part two of my class (she is a history major specializing in the Song Dynasty). :)! Thanks Laszlo! No I just need detailed notes that I can download...I would be happy to for for them!
Interesting Song dynasty. Do you know how many wives did Emperor Song Gao Dong have when he rule in 1127? Was there a Empress Kwong? If you can please let me know. Thank you 😊. Edna Han Murray
There were two that I know of. First was Empress Xianjie (憲節皇后) who was among those captured by the Jurchens in 1127. She died in captivity after a dozen, no doubt, miserable years. Gaozong then married Empress Wu (a.k.a. Empress Xiansheng (宪圣慈烈皇后) who survived him by 10 years.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Not sure where that episode disappeared to. You can listen at soundcloud.com/teacupmedia/chp-028-the-northern-song-dynasty I also have a 4-part series on the Northern Song emperor Huizong you might wanna check out. And also listen to the Yue Fei episode more more Northern Song. I'll get that fixed.
beats me. No one ever said anything. I have my best man on it. Sorry about that Rich. You also might want to check out the 4-part Emperor Huizong series. He reigned during the final decades of the Northern Song. This series offers a deeper dive about the fall of the Northern Song.
Vietnam (Dai Viet) was never conquered by the Mongol. If they couldn't get through the Vietnamese I doubt that they got to Cambodia. The Dali (Nan Chao) was taken by Kublai, not Mongke.
Scholarship on the Muslim world challenges world history that "the Mongols were unprecedented." The Turkic invasion quickly defeated the Buyid (945-1058), Byzantines, and Bedouins, and like the Arabs quickly conquered vast swaths of land. The height of the 'Abbasid (860-1050), already fragmented by Fatmid in Egypt, and Samanid (902-994) in Iran was largely ruled by Turkic tribes. Turkic states built upon Persian literary foundations while maintaining Steppe nomad successor system: resulting in what is called Turko-Persian states. The successor system of the Steppes caused great instability due to a method called bloody-tanistry where successors would battle amongst themselves until one person became victorious (something which the Mongols continue). Violent disputes over successors ravaged Muslim lands and would become a major problem. Ghazni in Ghaznavid states of Afghanistan (998-1040), and Saljuk Turks in Asia Minor had a huge influence on Islamic caliphate in becoming military forces w/ immense power. The lesser-known Qara-khanid state bordered the Ghanavid. Some historians of the Steppes argue the "era of the Mongols" should be much broader to include the "era of the Turks" who were a force from the 800s in Iran to the 1600s in India under the Mughals. The Turko-Persian states b4 the Mongols not only conquered vast swaths of land, but like the Yuan, settled down and adopted the culture of those conquered. Following Steppe tradition, they selectively adopted aspects of the conquered culture while maintaining their own. Some historians also argue that non-Han dynasties such as the Norther Wei were the first to adopt foreign customs over their own, and that the Liao, Jurchen, Xi Xia, and Yuan follow this tradition. Broader patterns of world history are rather unclear. In the case of the Yuezhi who settled down in Afghanistan and established the Kushan Empire and the Sythian-Parthian Empires, the traditions of nomadic groups conquering, settling and adopting foreign customs goes back far, although Buddhism and Christianity in those empires spread there. Sorry for the rather long post, but there is a lot of debate to unpack over the history of nomadic empires. Song dynasty tech and the idea of modernity would be interesting for a podcast.
Thank you
It's really depressing hearing about the rise and fall of the Northern and Southern Song dynasty. What a fantastic, industrious, short lived era of Chinese history. I wonder how different things would have been if the Northern Song Dynasty never betrayed the Liao? How much (if any) would have changed?
Who knows? What happened, happened. At least the Song got a new lease on life in Jiankang. What a tragic ending they had, especially for Huizong and the royal family.
...Part two of my class (she is a history major specializing in the Song Dynasty). :)! Thanks Laszlo! No I just need detailed notes that I can download...I would be happy to for for them!
I don't know about detailed notes, but would a transcript of the mp3 work?
LASZLO MONTGOMERY
That would be awesome!
Interesting Song dynasty. Do you know how many wives did Emperor Song Gao Dong have when he rule in 1127? Was there a Empress Kwong? If you can please let me know. Thank you 😊.
Edna Han Murray
There were two that I know of. First was Empress Xianjie (憲節皇后) who was among those captured by the Jurchens in 1127. She died in captivity after a dozen, no doubt, miserable years. Gaozong then married Empress Wu (a.k.a. Empress Xiansheng (宪圣慈烈皇后) who survived him by 10 years.
Is there a podcast on the Northern Song on here or is it only in actual podcast form?
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Not sure where that episode disappeared to. You can listen at soundcloud.com/teacupmedia/chp-028-the-northern-song-dynasty I also have a 4-part series on the Northern Song emperor Huizong you might wanna check out. And also listen to the Yue Fei episode more more Northern Song. I'll get that fixed.
Where is episode 28?
beats me. No one ever said anything. I have my best man on it. Sorry about that Rich. You also might want to check out the 4-part Emperor Huizong series. He reigned during the final decades of the Northern Song. This series offers a deeper dive about the fall of the Northern Song.
Vietnam (Dai Viet) was never conquered by the Mongol. If they couldn't get through the Vietnamese I doubt that they got to Cambodia. The Dali (Nan Chao) was taken by Kublai, not Mongke.
EPluribusUnumSemper Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.
Well You see what they to all of us modern day COVID-19
Scholarship on the Muslim world challenges world history that "the Mongols were unprecedented." The Turkic invasion quickly defeated the Buyid (945-1058), Byzantines, and Bedouins, and like the Arabs quickly conquered vast swaths of land. The height of the 'Abbasid (860-1050), already fragmented by Fatmid in Egypt, and Samanid (902-994) in Iran was largely ruled by Turkic tribes. Turkic states built upon Persian literary foundations while maintaining Steppe nomad successor system: resulting in what is called Turko-Persian states. The successor system of the Steppes caused great instability due to a method called bloody-tanistry where successors would battle amongst themselves until one person became victorious (something which the Mongols continue). Violent disputes over successors ravaged Muslim lands and would become a major problem. Ghazni in Ghaznavid states of Afghanistan (998-1040), and Saljuk Turks in Asia Minor had a huge influence on Islamic caliphate in becoming military forces w/ immense power. The lesser-known Qara-khanid state bordered the Ghanavid.
Some historians of the Steppes argue the "era of the Mongols" should be much broader to include the "era of the Turks" who were a force from the 800s in Iran to the 1600s in India under the Mughals. The Turko-Persian states b4 the Mongols not only conquered vast swaths of land, but like the Yuan, settled down and adopted the culture of those conquered. Following Steppe tradition, they selectively adopted aspects of the conquered culture while maintaining their own. Some historians also argue that non-Han dynasties such as the Norther Wei were the first to adopt foreign customs over their own, and that the Liao, Jurchen, Xi Xia, and Yuan follow this tradition. Broader patterns of world history are rather unclear. In the case of the Yuezhi who settled down in Afghanistan and established the Kushan Empire and the Sythian-Parthian Empires, the traditions of nomadic groups conquering, settling and adopting foreign customs goes back far, although Buddhism and Christianity in those empires spread there.
Sorry for the rather long post, but there is a lot of debate to unpack over the history of nomadic empires.
Song dynasty tech and the idea of modernity would be interesting for a podcast.
I wish someone would create a whole podcast show that only looked at these nomadic empires and the history of Central Asia.